Was what I had with a narcissist "LOVE"?
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2023
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The short answer is: no.
No
What was it
Infatuation?
A collection of case study.
Narcissists are incapable of loving anybody , they have emotional detachment issues. They are expert manipulators and give the impression they love you.
Fantasy
Not mutually, anyway. Your intentions were likely much more pure. ❤
Some amazing advice I received was from a friend when I said "I loved her" while going through my divorce. They said I didn't...I said I did, back and forth. I listed the reasons and explained how I felt. My friends response was "You loved the person you thought she was. Now you realize who she actually is. That's why you never loved her."
LOVE IS LOVE vs THE INDUSTRY/BUSINESS OF LOVE (RELIGIONS = VAMPIRES/WITCHES/SOCIOPATHS/PSYCHOPATHS/LEECHES/LIARS/NARCISSISTS)
sadly - that seems correct
Exactly
They trick us
Deceit is their middle name.
The narcissist loved himself/herself using you as an accessory. It is the kind of love they want but not what you want. Walk away from these people. You deserve better.
LOVE IS LOVE vs THE INDUSTRY/BUSINESS OF LOVE (RELIGIONS = VAMPIRES/WITCHES/SOCIOPATHS/PSYCHOPATHS/LEECHES/LIARS/NARCISSISTS)
Exactly! A relationship with a narcissist is meaningless and utterly pointless. If they were honest to begin with, there would be no relationship period. I needed to go through it to become wiser, but at the end of the day I didn't need him and won't ever. Can't say the same for narcissists. They can't thrive without external validation and chaos. Good riddance!
@stevenkimdmd that is very well and succinctly stated. Thank you for posting your comment. I think you finally answered the question I’ve been carrying around for five years… I think your answer is correct, but it makes me so sad.
They love you only when it benefits them
My issue was: these aren’t fully developed people. You can’t live someone who isn’t real. I was angry I loved an idea and a series of my own projections, not a man.
Loving the person you thought they are/were is completely different than loving that person.
Indeed. He was a cheap imitation of what I wanted. I grieved for a fictional character. I guess after 7 years, I still do grieve.
In real, healthy love there's always empathy. You might have loved them, they never did. Radical acceptance is needed.
It’s one thing to come to terms with this when it’s a romantic partner. It’s a bulldozer when it’s your parents.
A narcissists 'love' is transaction and control for them!
I loved who I thought he could be, the one I hoped for, the potential I believe he had. I couldn't accept that he was intentionally cruel. But the rear view mirror tells the truth, he always was who he is now: selfish, cruel, arrogant, uncaring, unable to see any fault or responsibility in himself. 😢
We loved a fantasy. We loved a lie. We loved someone incapable of loving us back, but they pretended they could if it would get them what they wanted. We loved something but it wasn’t them, and that might even hurt them even more than we realize. Because we don’t love the shame and fear filled child inside of them like a parent would, because we expect them to be adults, because we want what they aren’t, they know all long we don’t love them, that is part of why they punish us. But that is just one layer of the bs cake.
Wow...the way you said that . 😮
You are so right. We were both looking for someone else. They looked (and went) outside. We were looking for someone else inside them. I agree that they may have more awareness of this than we give them credit for
That's an amazing and devastating insight.
I’m listening intently. The divorce papers were signed by both of us recently and he really said if you don’t divorce me, I’ll leave her and come back to you. Oh my, the trauma. He quite literally said “I wasn’t the one who wanted to divorce. You were the one who wanted to divorce.”
What’s amazing is he believes his craziness.
I cannot wait until I am able to move out and start my new life in my new home. Thank you for all your videos.
Good luck.
What an ahole🙄 I'm sure his cheating was your fault too???🙄🙄🙄
Classic future faking and denial of responsibility! If anything, see this as a confirmation you are actually making the right choice! Stay strong!
LOVE IS LOVE vs THE INDUSTRY/BUSINESS OF LOVE (RELIGIONS = VAMPIRES/WITCHES/SOCIOPATHS/PSYCHOPATHS/LEECHES/LIARS/NARCISSISTS)
Best wishes to you 🙏🏽. Thank you for sharing.
I've come to realize that no, it was not love I felt for him. It was a toxic attachment
And as someone else said here, he just wanted me for the adoration and supply I gave him. Never love.
4:22 Love is like any living thing, if it's not treated well it dies. So true! If anything, I've felt guilty about my love for the narc fading, but that's what *should* happen when we're treated with disrespect! Now I see my growing indifference to them as a sign my *self-love* is growing. Huzzah!
Love is a VERB, and it needs to go both ways to last. ❤
Awesome!
After having suffered tremendously through a six year relationship with a narcissist, I have come to the conclusion that yes, I was in love, deeply in love, but they weren't. However I consider myself the lucky one because I experienced all those wonderful feelings of joy and fulfillment, while they didn't. I am the richer one, because I got absolutely amazing feelings of love that they will never experience. So they're gone....it doesn't change the joy I experienced. They can't take that away from me, as the old song says.
After everything I've learned about narcissism and all the things I'm healing, this is the hardest thing for me to come to terms with...he never loved me at all. Man. I'm struggling.
My experience of love was shaped by narcissistic parents and siblings. It was the only love I knew. As an adult, I was drawn to the same type of people. Honestly did not know any other kind existed. Considered myself a freak of nature. One of a kind from an alien, UFO spaceship that ejected me onto planet earth. Recently, and largely due to Dr. Ramani's educational videos, I now know better. Will always tend to gravitate- for a moment- toward over the top magnetic personalities concealing rivers of darkness. They smell like home, and I have a certain fondness for them. But now once I get a whiff, I run like hell. Thank you, Dr. Ramani! ❤
You and I share the same type of life experiences
The thing of it is, I had great affection for a persona, not a person. That is, the person that the narcissist pretended to be was the person for whom I had affection, but that person was a complete fiction, and never really existed. It reminds of this line from Shakespeare:
"...but if you swear by that that is not, you are not forsworn: no more was this knight, swearing by his honour, for he never had any..." (As You Like)
If you look at those photos taken before you understood what a narcissist was, you may see that you were happy and smiling. But if you can face it (no pun intended), also look at the narcissist, look at their expressions, especially the eyes. When I did that myself I cried so hard that my chest hurt, because I realised I was holding in my hand the evidence that he never really loved me. The blank or aloof expression, the little smirks, all those things, captured for posterity years ago. But it was worth it afterwards because I began to feel stronger, I could actually feel the trauma bond weakening. I'm better off now than I've been in decades, and I know I am on the right path. 🙏
I can relate and feel for you, the pain and confusion lasts a long time but it does dissipate in time. Hang in there and focus on you now focus on your life and being positive. I think your observation of the photos from the relationship is very true and it applies to me to. As our relationship was dying a horrible death I packed up all the photos and put them in a bag because I couldn't bear to look at them. She continually gave me photos of herself instead of actually spending time together. But you are right when you look at the photos the narcissist is not particularly happy. Anyway, hang in there time heals all wounds and you will get there. Best wishes to you.
I read somewhere that a narcissist type relationship doesn't just break your heart , it breaks your spirit. Which is why it takes longer to heal from it . I never thought the word "love" could be weaponized , but it can .
@@OlBlueshoundThank you, best wishes to you as well 🙂
I can truly relate! When I realized the truth when looking at old photos I had to throw them away.
In a sense, we project our love onto the narcissist and then are surprised when it doesn’t materialize.
Yes and that makes people confused and chase which the narc projects onto you as thats what they want. Everything to themselves while ignoring other peoples needs. They never deserved even a little small droplet of the real love people had for them.
I loved the version of the person who presented himself to me in the good times. But I still wonder how someone who said he loved me could do and say the things he did. I am not sure I will ever have that answer or come to terms with it.
Because it's only their reality that matters . Their definitions too. They believe their own narratives completely. They certainly aren't capable of healthy love , that's for sure .
It's an answer we will only know in eternity
I had a ten year marriage that started to fall apart the closer we came to realizing our dreams. He was actually a diagnosed sociopath (ASPD/NPD) and a health crisis on my part triggered the devalue and discard phase and through it I realized that I had a lot of one sided narcissistic relationships in my life. I have come to understand it this way: I loved all of those people for everything I knew about them, and they loved me as much or as well as they could love anyone but it wasn't an enduring kind of love and it was less than I deserved. It was also the best they could do, and it became abusive because I didn't understand what was happening and I stayed too long. Because of who I was it was very hard for me to understand who they were, and also in my mind it was better to die than to be unloved or to live a loveless life, so I stayed until the absence of love was undeniable and by then I was deeply damaged. Still years later I can acknowledge that while I became codependent, at my core I was really just a very loving person who couldn't fathom that others were incapable of what came so naturally to me.
My story is very similar to yours. Let's pray we each find the healing and love we need.
I can relate... Omg it's like we are the same person .. I hope we are gonna find a way to break through and heal and move on to be happy forever and get what we deserve.
@@wms72 ❤🩹
I really appreciate how you always stand by the experience of the survivor, validating their feelings. This is truly healing. You know we need it after being invalidated beyond belief.
I don't feel anger i just feel deep sadness , 10 yrs down the drain.
To the people who may harbor anger at themselves and shame, looking at their past selves and having contempt, I've felt that too.
What's helped me is understanding that the human brain is an analogical structure that requires experience in order to be able to make inferences and a trauma bond, as someone who has curiosity in various fields, is probably one of the hardest things to fully grasp and understand because our experiences are being manipulated, not only by the narcissist but a core sense human experience hinges on: That the person we're dealing with is capable of basic respect and empathy.
It's why even psychologists who go to school for this stuff, miss the patterns and fall into relationships with narcissists. It's not because of anything they're doing wrong either, they're exceptional.
It's something that's core to our evolutionary survival, which has been shaped since life developed warm blood, requiring more energy and making cooperation beneficial. When it works, it can be world changing.
Also, if you were 25 and under, your prefrontal cortex was still growing meaning you have less empathy for yourself, not to mention less experience with relationships.
Don't be too hard on yourselves.
@@ilja7127 The main subject of the 3rd paragraph wasn't the narcissist, it was the psychologists that bravely offered their experience which you can find on Dr Ramani's podcast 'Navigating Narcissism'.
They are the subjects who are exceptional and I mentioned them because, if they're having a hard time of it, we certainly will too.
The point was to illustrate just how strong a trauma bond can be even for the most learned.
The light when on when you said a narcissistic relationship can even feel better than a regular one at the beginning, Dr Ramani. With a background of having a narcissistic parent, I now understand why I have fallen for so many narcissistic people. I am still chasing the feeling of love that I got from the parent as a young child.
My mom was a narcissist. She never once told me she loved me. Not once.
@@karlabritfeld7104 that is really cruel and neglectful. Sorry to hear it.
The day after I experienced my last narcissistic blow up from my father, my mother came by to talk . I asked her straight out, “How come there’s no Love in this family?” She flat out said, “That’s the way it is.” I was shocked but not really, and that was the last day I had a relationship with them. No contact and disinherited.
What's the narcissist's favorite song?
"WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT"
The narcissist doesn't want your love, they don't know what love is. They want your admiration and your obedience as a player in the bizzarro world they live in.
Hmm, I think that song is actually about prostitution.
Which could be close to the way narcissists view their relationships,
payments, rewards in return for services.
that's just stone cold busyness, love has nothing to do with it.
Kinda sad when you think about how it means they must have lost faith that much as to resort to those kinds of methods.
Loved your musical suggestion 😉
I'll play some Sidney Youngblood music as well. Cheers !
My children and I were my narcissist's "boxed" toys. He wanted someone to go on vacation with him, and he needed a family to take to Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners. Plus, he wanted to get more money for housing and family needs during deployments. I hate that it took me so long to realize that nothing is real. The signs were there, but I looked over them because I didn't know what I was dealing with. I feel sorrow for my children.
This is by far the most difficult aspect to reconcile. My wife could make me feel like she was madly in love with me and was thankful I was in her life, then turn around and demean, devalue and tell me how lucky I was to have her; she’d give me the best of gifts then ridicule me if I didn’t react exactly as she expected me to; we could experience passionate sex and she’d lay in my arms talking about what an amazing connection we had, then go weeks not even coming to bed with me.
All the “good” makes you want to believe they really do love you; all the bad makes you, not question them, but yourself and why you can’t keep them happy and whether they aren’t being loving because you’re not being loveable.
I got this one friend, long story short we were in high school together , then about 4 years later met again while I was with another friend from highschool in Europe.
She completely changed from the snobish girl I had a crush on to a classy girl.
Anyway we kicked off and had started to have a great friendship and also at some point not too late (about a month into the relationship) intimacy.
It's gotten to a point when I would touch her down there and it would be very passionate. Very often. And even sometimes in public when it's safe like in a dressing booth, or the back of a train sit, or somewhere convinient. Like in the car one time for example. Or I would carry her through the park and my hands would be you know where...
So you can guess were both pretty lively and passionate when we are.
Anyway, some time after let's say we have this. She would treat me horribly and not even speak to me, then, she'll again love bomb me and immediately we'll get to the touch and go out or something.
Me being me, weak, as far as the intimacy because I long for it, I co operate except a few times in which I haven't. Which would only last short because we end up chasing each other. Then back to the touch, not before she would ramble on about how lucky I am to have her , (yes she is beautiful) but that dosen't give you a right to treat a person bad and I'm not too shabby myself , no perfection but still rather handsome.
Being deprived of what came so passionately and so naturally is a horrible feeling. Doing that and then being told to not even reach for her hand or touch her.
I'm still in this relationship as I'm mad inlove with her but have learned lots of skills to use and stand up to myself even when offered intimacy which she knows I almost can't resist and will use it against me with teasing and even making me jelous using other guys.
I just wanted to share since I finally found a comment about something simillar and thought I was crazy that I'm the only one that's been done those things upon so whilst I'm sad to hear I feel the pain.
That one hit pretty close to home for me.
I am writing a life coaching module- YOU LOVED, THEY DIDN'T. THE END
When the narc(current wife) and I reflected as we looked at old joyful pictures... she said "I was smiling but I felt sad inside, I wasn't happy...) then she would list everything I did wrong... basically a history re-write from what I remembered.... oh yea she loved me... like a new toaster...😂
My narcissistic brother is 67 years old. I’ve been putting up with him my whole life and recently also I didn’t want to admit it but my mother was the same way. I’ve been questioning if she even loved me but I know that my brother doesn’t for I seriously don’t believe that they are capable of it unless it’s an act…
My brother is 57, he's bit of an a***hole. There has always been a distance, he has done a few nice things for me, not many. The worst thing he did was when I was 18, he was teasing me, I told him to shut up, he then headbutted me. It hurt a lot, physically.
Your not alone. My mom and 68 year old brother (were and) are textbook narcissists and Dr Ramani nailed it when she explained that they (had) have a very different definition of the word love.
I loved who I thought he was, I loved the grandiose thoughts he gave us, I loved the gas lighting, once I saw and felt the true colors of him I realized it was lust and hope I had. The last few years I can honestly say I wasn’t in love I was in survival mode that became a toxic attachment to try and “change” him. It’s been painful but a learning experience I’ll never forget.
My ex supported me in key moments in my life, such as during the qualifying exams for my PhD and when I had doubts in my career. I felt enormous gratitude and I told her that. She was loving and caring. Much later, when she discarded me, I found out that at the same time as she was giving me support, she was also lying and cheating, even feeling more aroused when she saw me distraught. How do you cope with this? How can you treat these two facets of one person as the same? It’s very difficult to accept that you loved someone who only pretended to love and care for you.
I’ve often said, if I wanted to be in a Hitchcock movie I would have been paid more
Sometimes when the narcissist is cheating, they are so happy in their sneaky devious endeavors, that they are temporarily happy so they will treat you well because that’s how they feel in the moment. My Narc Ex would all of a sudden start coming home and watering the plants while humming and cleaning up normally when I would always have to keep asking him to do these simple things for me. When he finally got the side woman he had been chasing forever he was so infatuated that he took me to get a new car two week before the discard . We had just purchased our first house together…it was almost like a parting gift because he knew he had finally got the perfect equally sex addicted partner he had been dreaming of. He was so obsessed with the twin narc that he left the children and I and basically never looked back. Now they have a child together and he married her two months after the discard. Them getting married and having child all happened in the span of under two years.
@@FaCeSaysit won’t last. It’s heading to disaster just like how it started. There’s no way for this to not end horrifically. Especially you saying they’re both narcs.
You’ll see what happens just stand by.
Don’t even pay it any mind. Keep doing you. You’re the lucky one❤
@@FaCeSays I know it’s easy for me to say, since I’m not living your experience, but it was better for you on the long run to be separated from your husband. I see no better “punishment” for him than to be married to another narcissist.
Thank goodness he is out of your life. The same thing will eventually happen to the other woman.
For 36 years I put up with emotional abuse. It was hard and I didn't think it could get worse than this. Then 3 days ago I found out my husband was having an affair. I am so broken I don't know how to put the pieces together anymore. 😭
Been there myself. My heart goes out to you. I hope you get the joy and peace that you deserve
I’m so sorry friend, you deserve so much better. The fact you’re here looking for healing means only good things are ahead for you. All the best!
Maybe this last straw breaking your heart will give you the courage to get out. I don't know your situation - children, finances, home etc. It's NOT easy. But his affair gives you a reason beyond doubt. I almost wish mine had an affair so I could leave him with clear conscience. Best luck to you, and a huge hug! You got through 36 years, you will get through this one. Start taking care of YOURSELF. Give your love to you. It will start the healing process.
Just because he's having an affair doesn't mean he's a narcissist. It could mean many different things.
I can't imagine your pain after so many years.
The number of videos you put out and the quality of them is incredible. Thank you so much for helping us understand what the heck is happening in our lives.
4:02 Dr. Ramani, when you said “Something REAL happened to you.” that meant so much to me, (and I’m sure many others). I feel seen, and I know you understand. I wish I felt angry. But the emotion is pure sadness. It’s been 5 months since he ran off. I am alone with my grief, like someone died. I believe it was love. And I’m stuck on the thought that he isn’t a narcissist, he just struggles with addiction and childhood trauma. I want to feel angry, but it is like I can’t access that.
Childhood trauma is one of the leading ways narcissists are created. Don't doubt yourself. You also don't need the drama of an addict in your life. Work on moving forward, and don't let him back in if he sees your progress. That can attract them back - because they want to knock you back down. They want control. They want dominance over you - which means you are to lead a life of submission to them and their needs. That he left may mean that you were standing up for yourself somehow and not fully submitting to him. That is kryptonite to them, and if that is the case, then good for you. Stand strong!
It's actually easier not to feel angry. Anger csn be a trigger for irrationality
It's not really necessary to answer the question, "Is he a narcissist?" Far more important is the question, "How has he treated you?" If you haven't been treated in a loving way, then his trauma, his addiction, his whatever-it-is isn't the thing that needs sorting out. Any if that might explain his behavior toward you. None of that excuses it.
@@genevalawrence801 You’re right. Whatever he is, and why he is that way isn’t going to help me get over it. I’ve wasted too much time trying to figure him out. That is for him to deal with, and his behavior shows that he is an island of himself. No one is good enough for him. I feel sorry for him in that sense. He has a lonely and difficult life, by his own design. God help any woman who loves him. I’m moving on. Thanks for the encouragement.
I fell in love with the 'man in the mask'...and married him 10 years ago (we both widow/widower). Although some red flags were there when engaged, the mask flew off even during the honeymoon. Total confusion and frustration until 2018 when I started discovering these videos...and yes, my love died after all the emotional abuse and negligence. He's a negligent covert narcissist. I slowly began to regain myself. Thank goodness his also emotionally neglected grown children are full behind me...wonderful family. Tody at 73, I am his fulltime carer of this 83 yo emotional toddler now in palliative care (as well as my 93 yo mother). It's an obligation. Looking forward to peace.
True love is being acknowledged and seen for who you are period. Someone who sees you and values you could never even think of trashing you, let alone be able to go through with it... These deranged people do not love you for who you are, they can't even see you, they do not care to, and they are unable to. They're turned against themselves, reject and abandon their souls, refuse to and are unable to see their true selves, and so they don't even know what love is, they're rooted against it, they've adopted a completely f*cked up sense of everything relative to themselves. So no, they did not love you. Their idea of what "love" is is twisted, superficial, empty, and image based, as they look to external things to give them a sense of value and worth, and THAT'S what they define "love" through. It is all delusional fantasy of infatuation for them, where they idealize you until they don't want to anymore, or when they feel that things aren't about them as much anymore so they feel threatened by you. They "loved" you for what they got out of you for their own self-motivated reasons, like you were an accomplishment that brought them a sense of something for their ego and image. A possession. They "loved" you for themselves, not for you. They exploited your compassion and you seeing them past their shit. They just did and became everything you were looking for to keep you hooked and keep receiving validation from you. Every moment of everything was all for and about them. I hope this helps you find relief and ease in the process of moving forward from your relationship, I know it's just one small aspect of all of what's associated with moving forward -- PLEASE TAKE YOUR TIME THERE IS NO LIMIT AND DO NOT ALLOW PRESSURE TO FORCE YOU FORWARD. It's just that personally, I found it easier to move on from the emotional attachment to the relationship and person knowing that they were literally fake with you, and all the memories that you had with them were unfortunately not real on their end, it only was on your end -- I think it comes down to YOU know what love is, so know that they don't view or know love the way you do, therefore they were not giving real love the way you'd like for it to have been and expected it to be the entire time. It removes the pain as far as THAT is concerned, like you at least aren't grieving the loss of something real and true, if that makes any sense. You're grieving the loss of something you THOUGHT was real and poured into it, but now it's associated with pain, hurt, and trauma. YOU loved, truly and sincerely. It's not your fault someone was acting and duping you to fall in love with who you obviously would think is your ideal, of course you'll fall in love with who and what someone shows you to be and how they make you feel. YOUR love was real love. You genuinely cared about and cherished them. This literally has nothing to do with you. Do not allow yourself to blame yourself for trusting someone to be real with you, it's on them that they deceived you and betrayed your trust and your heart. You were not and are not responsible for that. They exploited you just like they exploit their own learned attributes to con people and get what they want. I love dr. ramani, I just believe from previous content of her's I've watched, based on what she's said, she's not particularly spiritual, as in she's a practical and rational thinker. So she lacks that kind of belief and faith to be able to tell you that they really didn't love you, so I'll be the one to tell you and validate that for you. And you know the answer within (no). This answer brings you peace and relief, contrary to what you may want to think it is. I also don't want anyone to think that while she didn't give a clear cut answer for them, that you are the one who didn't truly love. Because you did, and your love WAS real, true love, trauma bonding or not. Do not let her or anyone insinuate that you also just have your own definition of love and idea of what love is. Know that narcs have actually willfully forsaken the light and have the audacity to wreak havoc on others because of their choice. They need a host, and empaths provide that energy. We are beings that are rooted in light. No matter how much abandonment and trauma we may have gone through, we always know and carry that love within and we know how to love. We know what love is, despite what anyone may try to tell us. It's just about giving ourselves that love to make sure our cup is always full, and know that we don't lose that love for ourselves when we love others.
One of your best, most informative and compassionate videos yet ❤
Trust holds Love Sacred...
Was it even Trust?
Usually it's fear dressed up as love
and control dressed up as trust 😖
Yeah they're so weak they need constant control. It just works for them to call it love or other feelings whether they realize this themselves or not
I love all universally...
....I am safe to keep my heart open always
but how much trust has been clearly earned sets how much time I will interact with anyone 😎
Thank you for all you do, Dr. Ramani! You're a true gem.
It felt like love. For a moment, it was everything.
The hardest part for me is wondering if my parents actually loved me or not. They were both narcissistically abusive and my mother also had borderline traits. It really resonated with me when you talked about seeing yourself in pictures smiling next to the narcissist. I recently looked at a bunch of old family pictures and it made me cry seeing myself so small and innocent or even when I was older smiling next to the people who made me feel so bad about myself that it's taken me 51 years and a lot of therapy to even like and respect myself. Thank you for what you do, Dr. Ramani. You validate what most of us had to keep silent for so long.
I wrote in my book also about the smile of the narcissist in the photo.. it was a transactional smile for the purpose of the photo .. a duty .. a necessity ..the narcissist should show people what he wants them to see .. a nice and cheerful person... such smile will never be authentic but part of the mask .. unfortunately at that time i didn't know what I didn't know .. all I know that my smile was and will remain authentic ... thank you Dr. Ramani
Thank you Dr. Romani! I so needed to understand this! 🦋
It was my own drinking that filled my acuity. He was all too enabling of it. I stopped drinking (which was wine) over four years ago because of the fact that God blessed me and answered my prayer to remove the taste from my tongue, and because it was after that era of my journey that clarity begat the truth!
I can't believe I'm reading this - the same has happened to me! I was drinking too much (wine) and lost sense of taste on my tongue and mouth! Talked to my dentist, saw a allergy specialist - they found nothing wrong! So I stopped drinking, and he would bring me drinks even if I said I didn't want any. I realized he WANTED me drunk! Then the "allergy" went away. Holy smokes, thank you for sharing!
@@HanaPazdirkova 😊You’re welcome! I do want to clarify one thing. My remove the taste is that I asked the Lord in prayer to remove the desire for the flavor and “feel” of wine from my pallet. Also to take away my desire for its numbing drowning of the issues aspect. He drank too, just that when he did it, it was considered to be regal. When I did it, it was seen as “out of control”. I have never looked back.
Recently saw my narc parents' wedding pictures. Even back then they looked unhappy and just put on a fake smile and a big show. It was already a toxic mess back then and it still is 30 years later.
Obviously what I had was love but because they’re such good actors, I thought we were simpatico. Doesn’t diminish my strengths. Staying true to myself was easier after plenty of practice with a narcissistic mother. I’m looking forward to buying your book, Dr.
I tell people, I was real, he was not. My feelings were real, his not. So there was love but it was from one side. And i loved the person i thought he was, which wasnt real. And it does come with some grief for missing things and staying. But at least I know I was real. One of the reasons it hurt so much.
It's truly their version of love. The question you have to ask yourself when embarking on any relationship is this: Is their version of love and my version of love compatible?
I’m so sorry for anyone going through confusion regarding what the relationship was or wasn’t. It’s comforting to know we’re all in good company! Hey now that I’m single again and spend sooooo much time in reflection, I’m sooooo super bad A and I looooove my own company , poor him! Love ya byeeeeee !!🤸🏼🤸🏼
Dylan?
When my eyes began to open that her love (both for me and our children) was conditional I shared my concern. She claimed that the only people she has ever loved unconditionally are her children and possibly her grandparents.
It was probably the most enlightening and honest moment in our relationship. It broke my heart. We have very different ideas of what it means to love.
Since that moment I have tried to better understand what love means. One video I listened to spoke of the different types of love according to the ancient Greeks. My take away was that conditional love isn't love.
Many of us are in the same boat. My ex wife and I were together 35 years. She walked out for a man she met at the gym. Hasn’t attempted any serious reconciliation with either of our children. Hasn’t made contact with her family and seems surprised that I have filed for divorce. They cannot love anyone, not even themselves. Only time I saw her truly content was with our pets.
A narcissist doesn't love anyone but themselves so no, she did not love anyone unconditionally unless she means herself.
Um what. I get what you are saying, but all adult love is conditional. You cannot let someone hurt you repeatedly and still throw your love at them. You have to have conditions and boundaries because that's how it works.
Maybe hers are insane, I don't know. But don't erase yours. Don't encourage anyone to erase theirs that's how people become codependent and victims and get trapped.
All adult love is conditional by necessity. You may even have to leave a person while you are still in love with them. Because love is not enough.
I, too, have only felt unconditional love for specific things. Children, pets, etc. I have had to walk out on abusive people and let the love die, because adult love is conditional because it must be or it's not fairly or freely given. And if it's not fairly and freely given, it is not love. It is fawning, which is more of a survival instinct than a gift or shared experience.
Pursuing idealized love is a narcissistic trait. Maybe she is one and you are absorbing that from her. But know that this kind of thinking will lead you down a dark path and you cannot be happy on it.
Now, some people's conditions are insane, and you absolutely cannot live by them. But some people's conditions are reasonable, and you can accept them. Your conditions may also be reasonable or insane, I don't know. But I do know we are here watching these videos to find out which is which, and realizing that we must make our own conditions or protect ourselves. Otherwise the abuse breaks us down on a fundamental level.
Hope this helps
@@domeatown You’re just saying that we need boundaries and that is true, but what I don’t think is true is the notion that boundaries are the same as conditional love. Though when I think of conditional love I think of only being loved IF you are the way they want you to be and no acceptance of your genuine, true honest self. To constantly have to filter yourself to gain their approval, and constantly be under the anxiety of having to force yourself to keep meeting that transaction based love, it’s like walking on eggshells. Love is not conformity. Love is acceptance and respect for another’s own individual sovereignty. Boundaries on the other hand doesn’t have anything to do with the love you have for another person, but the love you have for yourself. Boundaries are meant to protect, not withhold or deny love for someone just because they didn’t fit the bill on whatever it is.
The answer is no and if they do it is only for the STATUS or the SUPPLY thank you sister ♥️
Thank you, Dr Ramani. I feel validated listening to this video. It can betricky not to gaslight myself in it all
Doctor Ramini - that’s a great way to look at it - their way of love differs greatly from ours. Either way, it’s a toxic situation that must be avoided at all costs. They will eat years of our lives + won’t take ‘get lost’ for an answer. They need to get a grip + weed out their own gardens before passing judgement upon anyone else.
Yes. I truly loved her. Even after the abuse, neglect then discard, I still love her. What the heck is wrong with me?
I look back at my 10 year marriage to a covert narc husband and i can honestly say that i can count on less than 1 finger the number of times i truly felt any resemblance of 'love' from that man. So, instead of asking myself, "did he ever truly love me?" I ask myself if i ever truly loved him. And the answer is no. There was never any reason given by him to ever love him. No compassion, regard, respect, or love. Not one ounce. I am no longer angry at myself for staying in such a cruel relationship, but i am stronger with the knowledge of knowing they can never truly love, ever.
Thank you so much for the content you create. It has been massively validating to me. About a year ago, I ended a 10 year friendship with a person who was deeply narcissistic. When several people in our group of friends began to compare notes and realized her game of keeping us in self doubt and isolation, we repeatedly tried to confront her and get her to change her behavior. Eventually, flew into a rage spiral, ran a smear campaign against us to other people outside of our immediate circle before abruptly cutting ties and leaving. Almost a year later, myself, my husband and my best friend are grappling with the damage this relationship dealt to our self esteem and sense of self. Are there any videos that you would recommend for dealing with friendships specifically? A lot of the content I have found has been geared towards romantic and familial relationships, but not close plutonic.
It was a platonic relationship that opened my eyes to the world of narcissism and brought me to this channel, too.
I also hope that this channel would delve into relationships outside of work, like at a school or religious centers (like churches) which are quite rife with abuse. Naturally, narcissists are drawn to places where the authority figures wield considerable power over those that are expected to be obedient. These power dynamics can have horrific outcomes, especially without proper checks and balances to ensure that abuse gets properly reported.
this made me cry. thank you so much Dr. Ramani! you've helped me tremendously, you will never know...
Absolutely perfect timing, thank you so much ❤
Dr. You are an incredible person and a professional! Your videos are so genuine and informative! Thank you for all your work!
Thank you for sharing this, I asked myself so many times each time I reflected on past pictures, flashback memories, all what you say makes perfect sense to me. It was never love , just supply .
This feels very true. I’ve tried to block out the memories entirely but the bad ones creep back often. Maybe I can leave space for the good memories too and still hold the positive feelings I had for them without the rose colored glasses or needing to equate them to the bad experiences
I keep a list of the awfulness for my weaker moments. The human mind cannot steep in anger and pain all the time and has a way of making memories softer. It's destructive to feel on guard all the time, but sometimes we need to prepare ourselves to not repeat the cycle when it presents itself again.
Dr Ramani calls that the "ick list". It's what I would refer to anytime the euphoric recall would creep in . I still have it.
Hello, Dr. Ramani thank you for making this channel dedicated to narcissistic abuse. I recently got out of the toxic grips of the same abuse with the help of others. Without your channel, I would have never been able to learn thoroughly how to navigate through my toxic family and come out free from it. I’m finally getting to live my own life on my terms for once without my abusers trying to stick their hands in my life again and again. Keep up the good work Doctor, it’s time for me to learn what a real life has to offer.
Being married to the narc is like a Hitchcock you start by laughter and by the end your screaming.
Not too shabby Doc. I love your new background!❤❤❤
I consume your content like coffee. I would love to have a new series about THE SEQUELS OF GROWING UP WITH NARCISSISTIC PARENTS WHEN YOU ARE AND ADULT SURVIVOR. 😖 and maybe an update on your NARCISSISTIC HUMMINGBIRD? 🐦🐦🐦 I can't tell you how much I laughed with that story.
Keep up the good work Dr. Ramani! ❤❤❤❤
I was with a narcissist for 7 years. Not once did he say the words " I love you" to me. He would sign his cards "love, Derek" pretty much as a generic sign off. But never once to my face did he ever tell me he loved me.
Honestly, my love is never hurting the one i love, in every way, financially, emotionally, spiritually. When i see hurt in the one i love i will do all i can to heal them. I would give a kidney if i have to.
A narcissist is NOT this. They hurt, they lie, they gaslight, they cheat, they swindlle.....NOT love.
It was a one way street.
You are a godsend helping others whos been through this an still going through , a true angel, not everyone can access or afford therapy so thankyou , dont know if you have done any videos on heali g from narssasistic abuse and other past trauma but would be really helpful if not to give people the tools and guidence to heal who cannot access therapy for whatever reason, thankyou for helping and educating, you are making a big difference an its appriciated
One of the most difficult things I ever came to terms with was that I had devoted nearly a decade of my life to a relationship with someone who never loved me. I loved him, of course I did. But at best he was infatuated with me for a little while and then I was a convenient source of car rides and sex, but love was never in the equation. He took his ability to lie and manipulate me as a sign that I was lesser, deserving of his disdain, and he enjoyed heaping that on me, with the tiny breadcrumbs to stop me losing all hope. He hated me and had me convinced that's what love was like. The damage wrought by such people is incalculable.
I can relate to the car rides and sex. I was so young and thought I was the lucky one that won the prize. That could not have been further from the truth. All of those broken hearted women he threw away for me have no idea how lucky they are!
Thank you Dr Ramani. I realize I accepted shame after our marriage ended. I made a big mistake when I agreed to co-custody. The person who suffered the most was our child. Trying to create an opportunity now that he’s deceased. The love I felt for him was not appropriate, I regret it 30 years later. It’s hard to be shunned from your marriage.
This was one of the best sessions yet for me: how many times did I ask myself this question (regarding several past relationships). Thank you Dr. Ramani- so helpful.
They love THEMSELVES. PEOPLE are TRANSACTIONs to them. Like a bank account you used up, like a maid you fired.
When I say, she hit the nail on the head with this one, SHE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! ❤ Also, love the new set-up!
Just turned 50 in July. Narc father, narc ex-husband, 1 further narc ex, a BPD-narc ex-boss. And thankfully, loving, human, emphatic grandparents, brother, cousins, ex and present bosses, co-workers, friends. The balance is still leaning toward toxicity and trauma, but that is the past. I've been in therapy for 3 years, and all narcs, past and potential have been and will be thrown out at a drop of a hat, with no remorse, no guilt, no regrets. I've suffered enough. I want a calm, normal life going forward.
Thank you Ramani for your insight. It’s been almost two years since my narcissistic ex left me. It was constant ups and downs, even after the breakup a few months later she would call me “the man she truly loves and wants to love” yet she just left me and would go no contact the next day. She never took responsibility for her own behaviour and would always find a way to blame me or accuse me of never respecting her. She weaponised sex once after the breakup. Crazy shit and I have been suffering so much from that sort of uncontrolled addiction from this unhealthy attachement. It’s tough
I may be watching this one at least once a day to help me realize that you got to the point. And I 'll try not to judge my feelings about this issue anymore. You made me laugh and cry and I appreciate that you answered these questions I was asking myself over 10 months now!😘
This is important. We didn't live a lie, for us it was as authentic as it gets. For the Narc... that's another story.
It was something, within that were the lies, the manipulation, isolating me, speaking poorly of me to others, gaslighting me as being paranoid and mentally unstable when I felt isolated and like people viewed me different, blaming me, continuing the cycle as I went through therapy for what I was being gaslit to believe. I thank my therapist and a brave friend for saving me from her abuse, I truly believed the lies she'd spun for nearly two years. Now I'm stuck picking up the pieces of my life and I don't know how to move on, I really did love her, but her version of love was keeping me under her control at any cost, even my sanity.
I felt always idealized - never loved. Love means to SEE and HEAR me, not what you want me to be. Let alone the devaluation phase.
I have completely wiped 17yrs 15yrs married. I ran left with very little took no memories 😢 and now going through a tough divorce costing a small fortune just to received what I am entitled to. He has everything, new relationship in the 18 months since we have separated. I am gaining back my confidence and mental stability.
Another excellent video Dr Ramani, you covered all the bases on that topic. I’ll definitely be buying your book!
In my case, the narcissist told me that he loved me during the relationship, up until the last year. Then he stopped pretending. The mask slipped. But he would still occasionally claim to love me, when he wanted somthing from me. It was heartbreaking, the words and the actions not matching up.
When he finally dropped the divorce bomb on me, he admitted that he had never loved me. He had been lying to me the whole time.
There's no coming back from that.
For my part, I had loved him sincerely, even when the mask started slipping. It was real for me. I never lied. But my love for him began to die when I finally saw him for who he really was.
After the final break-up, I deleted the pics after I found myself looking at them and feeling bad... they were nice pics... but she wasn't the person I thought she was...
I never really knew what a "narcissist" even was until I found myself in a relationship which swung from great to bad and back...IF I acquiesced which I knew was not right...
One night, alone at home, I saw a Dr. Ramani video... and my eyes were truly opened...it was a revelation, but the realisation that this relationship could NEVER work broke my heart 😢
I thank you for that revelation, Dr. Ramani... a painful but VITAL lesson, aa were the many more of your vids I watched afterwards... bless you for the good work you do, you truly are a good person... 🙏
🙂👍☘
Narcissists love in her/his own way. They love when they can manipulate and they apply a lot of efforts to keep a person whom they managed to catch.
So, although narcissists do not behave as a normal loving human, they believe they in their love. Although most people have a difficult definition of love.
I loved her. I routinely found myself being told she loved me. Then she would tell me she didn't. Then she did. My feelings were consistent. She would say someone who got angry with her didn't love her. I would respond that if she loved me she wouldn't cross so many of my boundaries. I didn't call them boundaries at the time, I would just list off the things she had said and done to me. Her idea of love was me letting her treat me however she wanted and shutting up. Mine was reciprocation, compassion, caring, sharing. So vastly different.
I know I loved her with all my heart and soul. I believe she loved who she wanted me to be rather than who I really am and therefore expressed affection when I conformed to her whims and took care of her needs and expressed contempt when I did not or expressed my needs. In other words, I don't believe she ever loved *me.*
Love can be defined. A healthy loving relationships involves mutual respect and care. If the other person in your relationship did not respect and care for you they did not love you.
I feel like we don't have real conversations on what love is, anywhere. It sort of follows that it's an area of struggle for many
Great point ! But I'm realizing that I was also afraid of real healthy love, that it would require something of me that I may not be capable of . Performance love I was used to , being fully authentic...not so much.
The love you give is the love you experience
Wonderful video! I needed to hear this! It was just what I was contemplating on for the past few days. Thankyou!
I’m so glad that Dr. Ramani said it wasn’t a psychological response yet a philosophical response because she sure had to dance around this one question. I wouldn’t want my psychologist to give me this response.
If I were her ( a medical professional) I would instead lean towards a more simple response like “Love is NOT someone intentionally hurting/abusing you emotionally & physically, betraying you, lying to you, endangering you physically and financially and even endangering your children in the same manner. So No it was NOT AND WILL NEVER BE LOVE. It’s ABUSE! And you’re lucky to be alive!
Namaste 🙏🏽
really looking forward to your new book. thank you so much for all your fantastic, gentle and smart counsel.
One time, I was with the female person that brought me up and she was telling my ex-boyfriend as they were looking for the photo album "Oh, well she had such a happy childhood look she was smiling in all her pictures..🙄🙄🙄🙄 The first thought that went through my head is "Looks, can be deceiving." just the fact that she had said those words made me cringe, if it wasn't for the mandated smiling, if it had been left UP TO me my face would have looked like a mug shot.
Yes! I sincerely believe that narcissists love those staged "happy family photo" moments because of this: they can always point back to those pictures as "proof" that we were happy. Which in their mind also proves that they were good parents, spouses, etc.
"See, look at how happy you were with me!"
They really don't care if you were actually happy, just that they havea picture of you looking happy.
Every dysfunctional family has an album full of those mandatory smiles.
@@drea4195 Thank you , yes I do think it's a way to make them feel better about themselves, and the ex (didn't do anything nor stand up for me. I was in a very bad place (at that point in time).
I have asked this question more times than I can possibly count!
My dad would always be the one to say "You know your mom loves you." or "We love you sooooo much." Rarely did it ever come from my mom herself, which is honestly fine. I feel like I gave up on trying for her 'love' a long time ago. It was mostly trying to mitigate and hide from her rage and constant disgust. I may be lonely across the country from them, but I'd rather have no love than whatever it was I had at home.
Same here. God bless!
Thank you so much Dr Ramani. This really helped me a lot. It’s a question I’ve asking myself everyday day!
I will always remember the moment I said to my ex, “I know you love me, but I feel like you hate everything that makes me who I am.” She had obviously gotten into the devalue stage and complained about my hobbies, my taste in music and movies (even tho she said she loved my sense of humor), my cooking, etc but yet still said she wanted to get married tomorrow.
The evening of my wedding, after the reception, I began thinking "Ok, I;m done now , you can go away"
I didnt go through with ending it then b/c i didnt wan to shock and upset my mom.
Turns out that thought of being "done" was a HUGE RED FLAG to run -run-run ! Wish I had.
We shouldve been friends or neighbors-NEVER should have married him
Love that... "Just because it's sunny today doesn't mean it didn't rain yesterday."