Get Rid Of Your Stuff Sacks, They're Killing Your Pack
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 04. 2023
- One of the easiest pro moves to get a more comfortable, lighter and easier to pack...pack, is to get rid of all the stuff sacks you use to pack up you stuff. I started backpacking with a stuff sack for everything and recently I've transitioned to using just a trash compactor bag or pack liner for the things I don't want to get wet and tossing everything else in on top (except food). My pack is a touch lighter without all those stuff sacks, but more importantly it's way more comfortable without all those stuff sack bulges in there and it's easier and faster to pack too.
Links to stuff I use that I get paid a bit if you buy them:
Therm-a-rest Neo Air - alnk.to/1XUaI3l
Sea 2 Summit Ultralight Pillow - alnk.to/aeVMOrj
MSR Hubba 3 (this is not the Hubba 3 we carried, the new Hubba 3 has side entry doors, which I would not recommend if you actually have 3 people sleeping in it, great for people and dogs though!) - alnk.to/cb07BnX
Jet Boil Micromo - alnk.to/31oIJMJ
Black DIamond Storm 500 - alnk.to/fwoweVL
Black Diamond Alpine FLZ - alnk.to/btl5Gbx
Power Bank - amzn.to/41PRBmc
Ice Axe - alnk.to/gVIAe2H
Micro Spike - amzn.to/3oBHtPG
Chargers - amzn.to/3H7fWvL
Sea To Summit Clothes Line - alnk.to/87WHbmP
Cotopaxi Sombra - alnk.to/4qIMAfd
Cotopaxi Fuego - alnk.to/hhy6bOz
BD Alpine Pants - alnk.to/1MZpS2i
Fenix 6x - amzn.to/3N63RL9
I just wrap everything in my poncho tarp and balance it on my head: no stuff sacks needed.
I need to see a photo of this! 😂
@@TrailTestedOutdoorsGoogle any Tarzan movie
This is spot on. 20 year 11B Army Vet here and for that time I spent a total of years & years in the field and always lined the inside of my ruck with 3 large trash bags and packed liked you did. I may have had the interior get soaked once from leaving the trash bags opened in those 20 years. Well done Sir.
1st thanks for your service! 2nd awesome to hear this has been your got to for so long, seems you have plenty of test miles and only one failure...which might have been self inflicted lol
don't cinch your stuff sacks down that tight and leave them. loosen them up, and then start stuffing your pack. you can then reshape the stuff sack, like water, and fill in the empty space. Plus, you still have the water proofing for the items inside.
You can compress that pack liner pretty well, pushing all the air out and twisting the top of the bag. Things get nice and compressed, forming to the dimensions of the pack perfectly. At a scant 25g, it'll save some weight over multiple stuff sacks too!
My base weight is 10.5 pounds and stuff sacks are one of my luxury items. My pack is a zpacks arc blast, so the pack doesn’t touch my back. To each their own, but I like keeping my dirty clothes away from my clean sleep clothes and quilt. Plus, for me, stuff sacks help keep me organized which allows me to focus on other issues and not worry about where items are in my pack or in camp.
I should mention that I do also use a nylofume pack liner for redundancy.
10.5 pound base weight is impressive, especially if you're carrying multiple changes of clothes. Sounds like you'd have at least 3 in clean sleep clothes, dirty clothes and the clothes you'd be wearing. Where you shaving the rest of the weight?
I absolutely organize my bag liner, it's really simple actually. Anything I don't need until camp goes in it and when I get to camp I set up my tent and toss the pack liner in the tent. Boom, everything is right where it needs to be. I keep one or two things on the top of the pack if I need it, like a rain coat, and the things I need regularly like a water filter or poop kit go in the mesh. Lunch and snacks fit in the hip pockets and I'm ready to roll.
I have some dry bags that I use. Just don’t over stuff them and they’ll conform to the space. Not a fan of everything just tossed in a bag with no organization.
The "no organization" can be a common misconception here. Do I have a bag for each individual thing? no. I do 'organize' by "things I don't need until tonight and need to stay dry" vs "things I need access to". Having my bag, pad, pillow, puffy jacket, sleep clothes etc all stuffed at the bottom of my pack in the liner is almost easier than having everything individually packaged. Once we hit camp and set up the tent, everything I need is in one bag and easy to get setup.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors You can be as organized as you like when you flat pack, but there are still situations where it's important to have the ability to segregate things in your pack.
For example, when it's raining and you're breaking down camp, you presumably don't put your wet shelter into the nyoflume sack.... just your down items, sleeping pad, and clothing, which go at the very bottom of your pack. Right? And the wet items go on top of it?
Then you start hiking up the mountain to the pass, where it's significantly colder than it was in the valley where you slept. You stop to take a break and want to put on your down jacket or your midlayer.... and you have to dig everything out of your pack to get to them, because you have no other dry bags and therefore no way to store them in a more convenient place. And then you have to repeat the process for every trail break and clothing switch. Sounds not only tedious, but like a terrific opportunity for your spare socks or sleeping bag to fall in a puddle and ruin your day.
I agree that cramming every single item into a cylindrical compression sack is excessive, but surely there's a middle ground between the dichotomy of using NO stuff sacks, and using ALL the stuff sacks, eh?
@@TrailTestedOutdoors Agreed, I don't think everything or item type needs it's own bag, All your base camp items can be placed together, you can keep your cook kit and food all together, etc.
I use 3 to large Dyneema Drybags, they weight just 15g and because they are to large there are flexibel enough to fit any little space. This works way better than a big unorganized bag. Great discussion I love it ❤
Do what works! I don't find myself really needing that much so anything that is my night stuff goes in the one bag and I just seal it off for the day. Food is in a different bag and some odds and ends are on top but otherwise once I am packed i'm ready.
I agree. I do the same. A few separate drysacks make it easier to pack and unpack in bad weather, and they compress well inside the pack. A pack....not a plastic tub...😊
Quickest way to end a multi day hike is wet sleeping bag, spare clothes. Just go for light weight stuff sacks and don’t over pack or compress them, they can then be forced into the corners of your back pack. Keeps essentials dry and organised. Agree though you don’t need everything in stuff sacks for sure.
❤
How is a trash compactor bag any less water proof than a stuff sack?
@@TrailTestedOutdoors
It’s not, but it’s prudent to be over protected with certain items especially on multi day trips.
There’s a balance between to many and just one is my point.
If it's raining steadily with no shelter. Need something urgently?... organised dry bags reduce time pack is open to contents getting wet. Any water entering pack liner will stay inside, heading to bottom items.
Does premise of vid outweigh this risk?
I guess based on the items I have in that bag, what would I be getting out of the liner that isn't gonna get wet? I have a sleeping bag, pad, puffy, pillow and anything else I don't need until camp. My rain jacket, food for the day, FAK are on top and water filter and $h!t kit are on the outside.
It all comes down to volume. If you compress gear, in either compression sacks (much compression) or regular stuff sacks (small compression), that saves volume for that gear compared to not compressing it. On the other hand, if you use cylindrical sacks, volume is wasted because of the voids surrounding the sacks.
As part of a solution, you can use stuff sacks that more closely conform to the shape of the pack, such as the Hyperlite pods. I've used one for my tent, particularly when it makes sense to carry the tent inside the pack; as a bonus, if the tent is wet, the moisture will be confined to the pod.
I also have used pods for clothes (slight compression, but more space saved than if the clothes are put loosely into the pack) and for a quilt (not as much compression as a true compression sack, but a substantial change versus leaving the quilt loose, even if "compressed" at the bottom of the pack by gear resting atop it; again, voids are saved).
Hyperlite's pods add more weight than regular stuff sacks (they are of thicker material, and they have zippers), but, for someone on the border between two sizes of packs, they might save enough room to warrant using a smaller and lighter pack. The weight savings there likely would exceed the weight differential between pods and stuff sacks.
At $2.50 for a nyloflume pack liner (that weighs 25g), I'm still hard pressed to buy anything more expensive and/or heavier. It's also quite impressive how much you can actually compress the contents of the pack liner by pushing a bunch of the air out, before twisting the top of the bag and folding it over. This is a crucial part of the process in my mind-it's not just about the gear on top smashing it down. It also makes for a quick load/unload (no longer packing up stuff sacks and pods every time I break came) and is really quite comfortable!
Appreciate you taking the time to add to the dialog, I know the Hyperlite pods and pack liners are quite popular!
My sleeping bag or quilt and my liner will always go in a waterproof compression sack. Weight is important but when you have to take the amount of gear that I do so is space. When winter camping I will also always have my spare clothes in a separate waterproof compression sack. I am usually using a floorless shelter. If I have room I use it to fill any voids. If not, you guessed it, compression sack. Takes up half the space. I buy high quality ultralight gear but having an ultralight light base weight just is not at the top of the things I need to account for when spending time in the backcountry.
What I found the most annoying with a lot of stuff sucks was the organization, like so many items everywhere in different sacks I completely lost control in a way lol.
And the worst IMO was how long it was to stack everything in each sack, and stuffing, compressing, instead of just throwing it in the backpack.
After a overnighter i woke up early and was so surprised how late i left due to the packing and organizing, i decided to leave the stuff packs and pods behind :D
I totally agree. Having a stuff sack for every last thing makes camp setup and breakdown take forever! Once you make the switch, you won’t go back!
I agree with the premise presented here completely (and have the same experience myself).
Another CZcamsr (I forget who) gave a very good explanation regarding stuff sacks and organization in a pack. He said, in a nut shell, that having each individual item (or like items) in a separate stuff sack does not make you more organized. You just end up with a pack full of random stuff sacks, which you have to use a lot of effort to make fit in the space...and the overall organization is NO better for it.
I have dumped all of my stuff sacks, with the exception of 2. One for my clothes (which gets used as a pillow). Two, one as a food bag, when I am not carrying a bear can. That's it. Small items get grouped together in appropriately - sized ziploc bags, which weigh less, are transparent and end up being flatter in shape (so I can stack them with far less wasted space. As such, I have moved to a 25 litre pack...and 10 lb. base weight.
Yeah exactly. I dunno why I need multiple stuff sacks for all my different outfits. There's only two types of gear, stuff at camp and stuff to hike. Camp stuff goes in the bag...pretty simple.
Not all stuff sacks are compression sacks. I use stuff sacks for organizing so I don't have to fish around for ten minutes to dig up a bottle of ibuprofen or have my dinner wedged in a pair of socks.
My old GoLite pack has compression straps on the outside if I need to compress everything.
tell you what, i just put everything in plastic bags (like thin freezer bags). one for toiletries, one for spare underwear/ socks, one for "technical items", etc.
Newb here. Love my stuff sacks for various reasons and most definitely I am taking my inflatable pillow covered with a t shirt. Gotta sleep between bear encounters! 😁
I started out with this mentality but with my synthetic sleeping bags that don't compress worth a damn I have found it essential to put them in a compression sack or else they take up at least half the volume of my pack. Pushing stuff down on top of the sleeping bag in one area caused shit to pop up somewhere else. The sleeping bag is only thing I do this with though. Also my compression sack is one that has compression straps both radially around the bag and length wise, meaning you can choose which dimension to compress. I usually leave the radial compression straps all the way loose and tighten the lengthwise straps just enough so that I can wedge it sideways into the bottom of my pack and it fits in there pretty snug and takes up much less space in my pack.
Curious what bag you have? I have an REI Magma 30 or 15 and am able to compress it down dang near as small as in a stuff sack but I can manipulate the shape however I want. My pack is the Durston Kakwa so it's a wedge shape at the bottom and I can get the bag, pad, pillow, puffy all wedged in there nicely to the shape of the pack.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors I've primarily used a coleman tidelands big and tall bag, but I also own a Wiggy's ultralight for colder weather. Both of these bags are very un-compressible.
I would likely try this if I wasn't canoeing. For canoeing I find the risk of things getting wet too much to not use a quality waterproof stuff sack for my things that need to stay dry (clothes and sleeping gear). What I have tried doing when reviewing how I pack is combining things into a bigger waterproof stuff sack instead of many smaller stuff sacks, which helps with packing.
Hammock, underquilt and sleeping bag all in one waterproof compression stuff sack works. Then clothing in a separate waterproof stuff sack. Replacing the sleeping bag with a top quilt is a future upgrade.
I wholeheartedly agree; canoeing/rafting is a different beast altogether. I too have a large dry bag that essentially replaces the pack liner when on the water, as the risk is too high not to have something significantly more waterproof. As with anything, it’s all about risk management. Great point!
I sit on my dry bag to compress it and make it flat for carry. there are some dry sack with valve that can make it a bit easier.
yep....stuffing when just backpacking no worries....nyloflume bag as a pack liner and hit it. Going on my first pack rafting trip in the arctic this August. Stuff sacks AND nyloflume for sure
Completely agree! Canoeing is a different animal altogether though (IMO) which means one might argue that "canoeing" isn't really "backpacking" and as such, entirely separate space/weight/organization concerns and requirements apply. Basically I'm way less worried about all of the above when the canoe/kayak is doing all the "carrying". I don't really even bring a "backpack" when canoeing (or sea kayaking). When sea kayaking ALL of my gear generally goes into light weight roll top dry bags sized to fit through my kayak's dry hatches (which are misnamed because there's always a bit of sea water that creeps in). You can't really "pack" those dry compartments in the sense you can a backpack anyway and so there's always tons of unused space. For canoeing/rafting it's 2-3 40L roll top river dry bags.
Good tips, thank you. My tent goes into the bottom section of the bag, so even if its wet it doesnt affect anything else. Ive a folded up plastic bag liner which I can either put wet or dry stuff in to isolate it from the rest of the wet/dry stuff. I saw a tip about taking stuff out of stuff sacks and have done that ever since, but still use the pillow and bag liner ones as theyre small. I also collect cooking stuff, food stuff, electronics together in a stuff sack.
This is precisely why the Hyperlite Mountain Gear pods (that are highly water resistant and contour to the pack shape perfectly and leave no wasted space gaps) are gold Jerry! GOLD!
ultra bold overpriced ...
@@easygroove Actually, the HMG pods are not! If you had even half a brain (which manifestly you do not) ANYTHING DCF is super expensive regardless of the manufacturer or product. Furthermore, they are extremely water resistant (almost completely water proof) and fit and conforms to the back scientifically sound. So, actually the pods are more sophisticated than bold as erroneously purported by your myopic view.
@@Y2J3469Jesus Christ, “Why Jay” 🤣
I like HMG's stuff and look, I love DCF but a DCF stuff sack just isn't where I am gonna spend the $, besides I bought an x-mid so I hit my DCF quota for the year. Each persons got their own $ to g priority so totally get why people use these, it's just not for me until I win the Mega Millions....or they give me some...hint hint Hyperlite
I agree that you dont need many stuff sacks, or maybe none. A tent does not need one. But if you DO use stuff sacks, and you might, fill them at most 2/3 full, or 1/2 full. They are not stuffed, but loosely filled, soft and flexible instead of being hard balls.
In wet weather to keep items dry I find that smaller sacks work better than a large plastic bag within a back pack.
Whats in a pack? Tent, sleeping bag, clothing, food, a cook kit, and a misc bag. Food is always well packed, double or triple bagged. The cook kit needs no rain protection, not even the stove. Other things can go in several bags, loosely filled except for the sleeping bag. The rain fly on tent needs no water protection. You can put the inner tent in a bag, loose, but its not necessary, unless conditions are extreme.
Bread bags work fine and are very light. But I do use 2 or so ultra light stuff sacks, as they are not much heavier and can be convenient in camp.
This will fill out your back pack properly. Modern back packs should be filled tight, with no empty spaces, so the pack supports itself. When "inflated" by tight packing, it will carry much better, even if the pack has metal stays.
I definitely keep my tent in a sack as that is the item most likely to be wet.. from condensation, rain or snow.
Better to load your cylindrical stuff sacks parallel to the pack interior, not perpendicular. Then, rather than putting your clothes in a stuff sack, push all your clothes into the open spaces between your stuff sacks that have your gear in them. This packs much better and allows for a smaller pack to be used, or for you to carry more gear if you need to.
Great discussion. I am guilty of this myself. I have too many stuff sacks in order to separate my items. Nice video. New follower here. Crow
It's such a hard habit to break! But once you do I promise you'll never go back. It'll take a trip or two to figure out what you want in your liner/dry bag and how to pack your clothes around the bear can (or food bag, which is the only bag I'd advocate for) but once you get a clean system down it really works better. I found my pack easier and faster to pack and way more comfortable once you clean up the weight distribution and the lumps from the cylinder shaped stuff sacks. Let us know if you try it and how it goes.
Exactly what I did this past weekend for the first time, I believe I had more space, backpack was more comfortable, I separate smaller items in zip lock bags for easy location. Two day weekend hike on AT.
Yeah I usually have a small "ditty" bag for odds and ends, so my chapstick (or whatever) doesn't end up at the bottom of my pack. It's usually a quart sized ziplock bag or smaller. Thanks for tuning in!
I just take everything that can compress down, put it in a dry bag, and compress it all together. I keep my tarp and ridge line on the top, it's the first thing I pull out.
Trash bag liner. Sleeping bag stuffed loose into the trash bag at the bottom. Close the trash bag over the sleeping bag. Then stuff sacks for the rest.
I've definitely gotten away with a trash bag in the past-easy to acquire, that's for sure! I do feel like they rip/leak quicker or something, even though Nylofume is still super thin. YMMV of course.
I guess I just don't have a lot left that would benefit from a stuff sack, after my sleep and dry gear ends up in the pack liner and is compressed.
My summer base weight is 9.998 lbs. I will try this for winter pack. It has a bit more gear !
Well it's a great thing, that not everybody's opinion is the same. I bought my rucksack thirty plus years ago. It's a great, strong, mountain pack, however, the material is not waterproof anymore. So I use stuff sacs.
I put “sleep “ gear at the bottom like this: sleeping bag, pad, pillow, dry clothes and tent body. Then put tent fly in outer mesh pocket with no stuff sack.
Yeah, keeping the fly separate is key if it's wet. I might also keep the ten body out if I know I am gonna be setting up in the rain, depending on the style and your skill you may want to be able to access your tent without opening the liner and risking getting your bag wet. Setting up a double wall tent in the rain and trying to keep water out of the tent can be tricky.
Nice video. Weight is a big topic. Use of multiple compactor bags for your pack gets rid of the single point of failure that could be an argument. Using an isometric view of the tote would have been more impactful so we see length/width. Digging the content. Thanks for taking the time dude!
Thanks! I tried to find a more clear tube or bin but settled on this, and your definitely right the iso view would have been better! I've got some other pack packing stuff to do so I'll try to find a more visible solution.
I use individual stuff sacks for all my gear that I don’t want to get wet because if you get a leak in a trash compactor bag everything is wet. If rain is in the forecast I use a pack cover as well, because even though my packs are very water resistant (GG Crown2 38/60) you can’t keep your gear TOO dry.
As far as lumps or bumps poking you in the back, that’s what happens when you use a pack with no suspension or frame sheet. The structure they give keeps the pack somewhat back-shaped. I’ve found that just stuffing everything into a pack with no suspension or frame sheet causes it to become barrel-shaped, leaving gaps at your shoulder blades that you have to fill by over-tightening shoulder straps and/or load lifters. Just as often, it’s your shoulders that end up being pulled backward.
My method is to compress stuff just enough to fit in the pack, which leaves some room to squish sacks together and take up most of the voids between items. Using sacks that are more rectangular to begin with helps, too. Tightening pack compression straps just enough to minimize empty space in the pack is a must, too. Plus over tightening ends up pulling the pack into that barrel shape, as well.
After much trial & error I worked out a packing system that puts all the weight on my hips, I snug down the load lifters and then loosen the shoulder straps so there’s no pressure from them on my shoulders and only the lightest bit on my chest. The shoulder straps’ purpose is solely to keep your pack from falling backwards, not to bear weight. If they are, reorganize your gear to move some of the heavier stuff a little higher (1/2-2/3 of the way up in the pack) and right against your back.
I've never had a leak in a trash compactor bag. Lots of talk about that but I think people really underestimate those things or people are doing some stuff with their liners/stuff sacks that I just don't get.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors It’s a preventative thing for me, I’m just not going to put all my eggs in one basket again. It happened to me too many times in the army, I eventually just bought more waterproof bags and divided up my gear between them.
Well, the key here is to NOT stack them on each other. I place them in length-wise. Maybe put two in and then fill in those gaps. Then put the next layer of stuff sacks in and fill in those gaps. Easy. I do it all the time. Nothing bulging or hitting my back.
I kinda do this but still use compression sack for sleeping bag, I couldn’t keep it compressed enough but if I just do the sleeping bag in a compression sack I can then pack the other stuff around it… or I’ve 1 bigger compression sack that fits everything in and once compressed it completely fills half my pack without gaps… but I kinda failed at not use anything I was just battling with the bag 😂
Vacuum bags for clothes work well as well.
The upside is that it is easier to take the air out and make a somehow rigit flat item on the back side. This can add some stiffness and flat surface against the back.
I suppose the downside would be not being able to take as much air out of the bags once on trail, unless you take some sort of inflator that works in both directions. That's yet another thing I'd have to carry and take the time to do when breaking camp and/or grabbing something out of my pack.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors
I used the one without the plug for the vacuum cleaner.
It can be rolled to take the air out and make straight again.
Obviously not as good as vacuum cleaner, but good enough I would say. Better than compression things you showed on your video at the beginning.
I line my packs with a 10 mil bag used to dispose of asbestos. They literally last for years. For the soft gear like sleeping bag or quilt, tent, fly, down jacket. I put them in oversized stuff bags.. Every piece of gear is separated and contained in its own oversized color coded bag. This allows them to be squished and fill all the spaces and makes them much easier to pull out when needed. I use a combination of stuffing of squishy stuff and cubes for other gear such as clothing and toilet kit. Items like the tent fly that may be wet or damp go on the outside of the 10 mil bag liner. The large cub filled with clothing becomes my pillow.
Sounds like we might just have very different amounts of gear. I don't see the need for a different bag for everything. The things in my stuff sack are the items I need at camp later, the things not in it I am wearing (or have on top for quick grab like rain jacket). Otherwise there's not much else.
I feel like this has become such a controversial topic in the backpacking world lol. I personally can never get my pack to pack as well when I leave everything "unstuffed" in the bag. I don't use dry bags but I do use stuff sacks that breath. To me stuff sacks are for organization and not water protection. I find that playing a game of tetris I end up with more room. I do use a nylofume bag as my overall rain protection. Great video man!
Thanks! I didn't realize it was such a hot topic lol, but here we are. I wanna point out I do organize my pack, I just throw everything I don't need again until camp into the liner. Once I get to camp I setup the tent then I get the liner out and toss it in my tent. Then everything I need for the evening is in the tent.
good to know!
Some things need stuff sacks, some things don’t.
Maybe the clothes is a good idea but the sleeping bag expanded to triple the size. The sleeping bag alone took up half the container.
It's actually quite impressive how much you can compress the contents of the pack liner by pushing a bunch of the air out, before twisting the top of the bag and folding it over. This is a crucial part of the process in my mind-it's not just about the gear on top smashing it down. You have to push as much air out as possible, twist the top of the pack liner and stuff it securely to the side. This keeps things nice and compressed!
I get it, and I do pack some things this way. But this also introduces a single point of failure - if the liner bag fails, everything is then at risk of getting wet. Is that risk significant enough to do something different? Maybe. I seem to do a risk assessment with every trip, because every adventure offers a different set of circumstances and factors. Good content, though. Thanks!
yeah, you're not wrong. Anytime we're talking about one thing vs another, lighter weight vs more weight, more vs less etc we're gonna have some trade offs. I've never had an issue with these bags being damaged, but that's not to say it can't happen. Everyone has to weight the pro vs the con and do the risk assessment you're talking about for themselves. Worth noting I carry tagaderm in my FAK instead of a bandages and they can help plug a small tear on these too.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors Right. Always options: repair tape or an extra bag (nylofume is inexpensive and weigh less than an ounce). Murphy follows wherever I go... haha... trying to keep a step ahead.
all the more important to keep a lighter pack and stay a step ahead!!
My sentiments as well. I had planned to address this issue on CZcams. Far too many stuff sacks , reduced packing area and the additional weight. I use rubber bands after folding or rolling my gear to maintain the surface area preventing unfolding or unrolling of the gear.
Sometimes my rolled sleeping pad ends up in my pot, instead of my stove/fuel. But then again, sometimes not. It sort of depends how I'm packed for a given trip and/or if my pot lid makes it in my pack (it doesn't always).
About the only thing I use a rubber band for is my trail wallet. Although, I do have one of those cross-bands for when I store my stove and gas in my pot, with it's lid.
Thanks for watching!
I place my stuff sacks vertically not horizontally so i can stick stuff into the gaps.
What I think can get hard with vertical is the weight distribution, and trying to balance the left and right side. Close enough is fine but when the mileage goes up it's one of those things you don't notice until later and one side is more tired than the other.
I started doing this too! Great work man- so that Kakawa is on my list to get- how is it dude?
I really need to do a video on the Kakwa, I really love it so far. Granted, I have not had it out for a night yet, just been carrying it for a lot of day hikes with kids and it's been really comfortable. I can tell you the zippered stash pocket can hold 3 soiled infant diapers, the load lifters are amazing and the hip pockets are sure easy to use and feel huge.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors already sounds like a winner man!!! Definitely want to snag one eventually! Had to get a 2P tent first since wife is going to start backpacking on some trips.
Thx great job 🤙🏼
Thanks for tuning in!
I use organizational, waterproof bags for the following:
1. X-Pak roll-top bag for food (because I want my gear to be separated from my smelly, sticky food bag).
2. DCF roll-top sack for my quilt and pillow. I’m not playing games with the possibility of my quilt getting even slightly wet.
3. DCF roll-top sack for my battery bank and charging cords.
4. DCF roll-top sack for my hygiene items. My hygiene kit is very tiny, but contains tiny containers holding sunscreen, soap, DEET, and I want those items to be as protected as possible to prevent any of my other gear getting sticky in case one of those containers leaks.
5. Tiny DCF tent-stake carrier for my five tent stakes. Not trying to let my other gear get damaged from the pokiness of my tent stakes.
6. A DCF roll-top sack to hold my tent. My tent is a single-walled trekking pole tent that gets dirty and sometimes gets condensation and I want that separated from my the rest of my gear.
Then I use a nylofume pack liner that goes into the main compartment of my bag and my spare clothing items go on top of my quilt (in the DCF stuff sack).
I usually put my inflatable pillow flat in the bottom, sleeping bag on top of that loose in it's mesh storage bag, and my inflatable pad folded flat on top of that. If the weather calls for it then I fold up a light windbreaker and lay in there. When compressed by weight from above it fills 4"-5" on the bottom with 100% space efficiency. THEN I use stuff sacks because I like things like my food and clothes organized and ready to grab. The dead spaces between the sacks are usually easy to fill with lanterns, water filters and miscellaneous odds and ends.
I don't own a closet full of backpacks, though. I have a 60 liter and a 90 liter and often have more pack than I really need. In these instances I might be a little more generous with how I pack it, but the main reason I don't use stuff sacks for every blessed thing is simply to reduce the amount of unnecessary camp clutter, not to save weight or pack space.
When packing a 40L pack, I just have to be cognizant of every last nook/cranny and only take the bare minimum. So you hit the nail on the head regarding "space efficiency" for me.
Camp clutter is real-this is definitely another benefit! Don't want stuff strewn around and also don't want to to take the time to pack up every last stuff sack when breaking camp.
Hike on!
This is something I've been thinking about for my SASH'es... do you have a recommendation for size of the trash compactor bag for a 40-50L pack?
hummm I didn't actually think that they would come in different sizes. I thought they were a sort of standard size as most trash compactors are about the same size? I'd say the one I got is about the size of a tall kitchen trash bag if that helps...
@@TrailTestedOutdoors I see that 18G is the norm. Got them for my 44L and testing this method on an overnight this weekend... thanks!
I just made the switch from compression sacks to a liner, never going back!Speaking of bear can, have you carried one with that kakwa behind you?
Yup! Sure have. I have carried it both internally and strapped to the top (those straps are way longer than they look). I have a BV450 that works well and (I think) is on the fatter side of the cans, so the others should work fine too. Here's the think to the BV450 alnk.to/eDOL84t
@@TrailTestedOutdoors is that the 40 or 55 ? I read it can be tough to strap on top of the bag is full.
It's the 40! The way the pack is designed, as you go over the top of the frame, you start cutting into the available space for the bear can (or that outside strap area in general), so yea...if you go over it far enough you will eventually run out of space but i find the space below the frame of the pack to be plenty for my load out. You can also (which I usually do) drop the bear can into the pack on top of your liner. It fits well this way and then I fill the spaces around it with the rest of my stuff.
One of the things I LOVE about Durston is that Dan (the founder and designer) is super active on Reddit, Backpacking Light forums and Instagram. I'll do a review video of it soon but if you have questions on the Durston stuff just shoot them over and he'll usually answer personally.
Weight weenies don't go near stuff sacks at around 100 grams each :)
Definitely consider us weight weenies lol
Hyperlight mtn gear packing pods fix this problem to a degree, especially if you have one of their packs
Yeah they definitely do, I mention that in one of the comments. My only issue is the cost. At $60 each I just choose to put my $ elsewhere. I’m sure they work great though!
Yeah nice but 3 of them cost more than my backpack 😂
Videos like that are the reason why you have 364 subscribes.
Do you have a link to those compactor bags? All the ones I see are super thick, that one looks thin, like .5 mil.
I actually got these on ebay. I don’t shop there too often but I think I found 10 for $10, so the link below isn’t the exact one I got. Might be worth poking around if you can find a better deal. www.ebay.com/itm/275602706108?hash=item402b338ebc:g:TAIAAOSwAYtWHpJb&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAABIJRKj%2B3Hc5vtLvtEd7H05YYgggj0NnpJmRwXZE1szDESCI1GzJpDIuESDMZEkJJulc2vNfkraBvC6lrmWqEtU7mk6JpI2IKSaYWEHocQo0M4OugIX4li8UCe1Xv2DUt5O%2FGTjGdj1yfZS9RnaHptvkhyXDPzxZRatzm9xNlRqDJQAaP7sPv8eAcvcgbVllohcaNg1ZXoHG0YLd9zwYdQgEFdsavdi4G3fsitkr6N33e93ggQ4fKVmiugmQWOQP6nETwRe3z2mq3f19uh5w3m7LVYm%2BP7Zqdj7mdocdHRXCnV1u5Gs2RrTHKaHzRrjBP%2BdwCQuaNX9FJcI5MQO0sBKeMuMiJUo4ToHF%2BVietre1alh5xKgVYeevB786QPXw%2F%2BNw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6LKj-X3YQ
@@TrailTestedOutdoors ahhh ok it’s nylofume. That makes sense. All the compactor bags I see are super thick like 2-3 mil. Thanks.
What brand, size and thickness of compactor bag do you use?
The one from the video is just a generic "one-size-fits-all" Nylofume pack liner, popular amongst backpackers. Garage Grown Gear sells them (tinyurl.com/58d8dsb8) and are good people. They can be found on eBay too (tinyurl.com/3r737ab6).
Would this trash compactor bag make a decent stuff sack just to compress everything down?
Yeah that’s kind of the idea. I cinch the top in my hands, compress everything and push all the air out, then twist and tuck the top over. Works like a charm!
You're never going to make your pack size smaller by NOT compressing down items. Not rolling up your sleeping pad? Sure. Separating your tent components? Absolutely. But the volume of your sleeping bag/puffy coat/underquilt/etc. in a compression sack is ALWAYS going to be SIGNIFICANTLY lower than it will be left loose under just the weight of the rest of your gear.
Curious what backpacking experience you both have? I used to use all the stuff sacks; changed to the single waterproof bag years ago and will never look back. Putting all my weight on the bag to push out air and fill all the space in my backpack was a game changer. Try it before you dismiss it. 😊
I dont agree with this. The sleeping bag will compress wether its in a stuffsack, or its loose with the weight of other objects packed on top of it. Its down. It’ll compress
@@april906outdoors3 Like I said, that method will never result in a smaller overall packed volume when it comes to down, or other highly compressible items. All you're doing is using your entire pack as one large poorly-performing compression sack that can't apply as much force as a proper one. The OP isn't wrong about efficient use of space when it comes to loose- or flat-packing other items, but a compression sack simply does a better job on your sleeping bag, quits, and clothing.
There are also other issues with the broad premise of abandoning organization. Setting up camp in the rain and having your gear burst out of your pack when you open it is a recipe for wet down. So is packing up a partially-dried tent or tarp loose with your clothes and bedding. There are numerous other reasons why being able to segregate wet and dry items in waterproof compression sacks can be crucial on a thru hike.
I don't need to get into a pissing match over experience because it's irrelevant,- I have more than enough to know that I'm correct.
@@addsy6396 A compression sack can apply over 50lbs continuously. My base weight is just over 11lbs. There's simply no way that my top quilt and underquilt are going to compress to a smaller size outside a compression sack than they will in one. It's a ridiculous claim.
Once again, efficient use of space is certainly important, and the OP is correct that rolling or packing ALL of your gear into inconvenient shapes is counter-productive, but when you're talking about an item that's highly compressible, taking advantage of compression sacks and then working around the small amount of empty space they leave is always going to be more efficient.
It's also just smart to have an organized pack, so you're not having to yard sale your gear (and potentially wet your clothing and bedding) every time you open it. Camp in three straight days of rain with the setup OP is suggesting, and you'll never want to do it again.
That’s what the compression straps on the actual hiking bag is for LOL, what a newb.
Give up the compression sacks and just get a larger volume pack.
Why do I need a larger volume pack if everything fit in the current pack?
@@TrailTestedOutdoors You don’t. My point is that if you can only get all your gear to fit into your pack by compressing it into stuff sacks, you need a larger volume pack.
I see and get your point, but backpacks are not square boxes.
I also see and get your point, but the problem of gaps between stuff/compression sacks still exists in a cylindrical backpack. You'd be surprised how much the pack liner compresses once all the air is pushed out and the top is twisted & folded over. Not only does this system save some weight, but it also makes things quite comfortable to carry. This becomes even more of a benefit if you venture into backpacks that have minimal or even no frame. Thanks for checking it out!
Have you ever tried turkey bags?
I've not. They're definitely talked about a lot, but in my mind seem too thin? Nylofume pack liners are cheap enough and I've had them last quite awhile.
Looking at the amount of degradation my stuff sacks go through I'd wager that leaving them out will seriously reduce the lifetime of all that expensive equipment. Those 30-50g are well spent...
Interesting, I've been using the pack liner and have not had any degradation to my gear. Are you sure the stuff sacks aren't just rubbing on themselves?
Oh OK.
indeed
I don’t overpack my pack so gaps for me are a non issue.
A video outlining a solution in search of a problem.
We appreciate your valuable insight.
Controversial take… why not use packing cubes if the shape is the problem? You can still get the benefits of compression and organization, while being in a more comfortable and efficient form factor. As most aren’t waterproof, a pack liner is still a good idea, but now things are easier to find and take out as well. There are lots of light weight cubes one the market, and might be a great solution to this problem. Ultimately though, you do you.
Disclaimer: I work for an outdoor retailer, and the above is my own opinion and does not represent the company that I work for.
You could for sure use packing cubes, but the notion that I don't have any organization without them is kinda off. My organization is maybe just zoomed out to things I don't need until I set up camp again, like sleeping bag, pad, puffy coat, pillow and those things all go in a singular liner (which is really just a big compression sack). My food will go in some sort of organization, either a bear can or a hang bag and smaller things will have a ziploc or small bag (FAK, $h!t kit, filter etc) this method is really just to consolidate the tent essentials.
You can make it way easier if you use a shopping cart
Stole a flat bed cart from Home Depot last weekend...should work.
I somehow lost my stuff sack for Zpacks altaplex was told it could harm the tent if I just stuff in pack can anyone confirm or deny this
Long term storage probably not the best to just be stuffed into a sack. Short term hikes and backpacking adventures....probably fine. What you're trying to avoid is continually folding the DCF on the same lines every time which can break them down, so even in storage might be better to roll vs fold or to shake it out every now and then.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors thank you
Take that container and fill it with stuff sacks (maybe put your spare socks in some spaces), and then take that container and fill it with unstuffed ... stuff and show me how you really have done anything with what you consider wasted space. You went from a small compression bag for a sleeping bag to that uncompressed sleeping bag taking over a quarter to half of the space in the container. Sure, you can press it down, only to have it puff right back up anytime you access the pack to rummage around for whatever it is you need. You lose organization and easy access for, from what I can tell, no reason outside of a small loss of weight from the bags themselves.
Exactly, you can press it down-this is the key to your concerns.
It's quite impressive how much you can actually compress the contents of the pack liner by pushing the air out, before twisting the top of the bag and folding it over. This is a crucial part of the process-it's not just about the gear on top smashing it down. You must press as much air out as possible, twist the top of the pack liner, and then stuff the twisted part to the side. That way when you rummage for stuff in your pack, the contents of the liner don't spring back up. That being said, a lot of the things I'd need when on trail are in external pockets anyway.
What the heck is a”bear can”?
turns your food into a volleyball for the bears instead of dinner
Why not vacuum bags?
They would work just fine, but might be slightly heavier and maybe more expensive? I’m not super familiar with them but the ones I see on Amazon are $41 for 8 vs trash compactor bags are usually about $1-2 each. A lot of brands like Hyperlite make a DCF pack liner which is even more expensive (shocker right?) that obviously works fine and if you want to you can even just use a regular kitchen trash bag. I think it’s less about what liner/bag you use and more about getting the gear out of the stuff sack to make your pack more comfortable and manageable. Happy trails!
@@PandaExplorer143 On that topic lol czcams.com/users/shortsKIYVVnJHhNg?feature=share
@@PandaExplorer143 I also find that just pushing it down and putting something heavier like a bear can on top of it gets enough of the air out.
There are field "vacum" like bags, i personally use two of decathlons 20l waterproof liner bags. Each has a small valve you can open, compress the bag and close. Having 2 allows me to separate night only kit from stuff you might need to open during rain like food / jackets. But this kind of strategy works really well in a backpack like an Exos from osprey because the bottom geometry of the frame is really strange and you easly leave a lot of space unused. Also there isnt really bear country here in the EU (looking at you slovakia) so our food can also fit in the sacks and not on a bear can. Lucky us
@@PandaExplorer143 they are made out of a finer poncho like material. I would say they might deal better with damage from abrasion and folds. The advantage would still mostly be the vacum valve. As you get strap free compression for shapes, great for the sleeping bag / clothing / iner tent combo
There's also so much unnecessary weight too!
Right!?!?! I know we're talking about a few grams here and there, but when you start adding a stuff sack for everything the weight adds up. I also just think it's easier to pack the one pack liners vs trying to shove everything pack into an individual stuff sack each morning. More time hiking, less time packing...
You need to redo this experiment using exactly the same gear items, else it dosn't mean a thing.
This is the exact same gear. Stuff sacks vs no stuff sacks....fits better with no stuff sacks and it's how I do my pack every time.
1000th like 👍✨
HURRAY!
Actually, recently I saw a Swedish version of packing without stuff sacks. It’s a slam it and jam it packing philosophy. czcams.com/video/xD-uHm9ksI4/video.html. Seems to work as you explained. Thanks.
That video is hilarious, thanks for sharing!
Just spent a couple of weeks in a wet cairngorms . +1 to
Your method , especially if you use a genuinely waterproof and ultra tough pack like an arteryx alpha FL 40 . . Only exception to
This method is toiletries in a small bag and electronics and bits in another . Maybe food in another .
Interesting video and take on packing 😂 It's a Finnish 🇫🇮 guy, not Swedish 🇸🇪
Thanks for correcting me. Sorry if I offended.
2:51 I hate this plastic noise.
Why not just buy a drybag and using it many years.
If you can’t fit things in a stuff sack comfortably in your pack you need a bigger pack or less stuff.
Problem solved.
It's not usually a matter being able to fit them in or not, but having a more compact and manageable load. He could fit everything in his pack either way, but for him all the stuff sacks created an awkwardly lumpy pack on his back. For me I wouldn't feel that through the suspension, but I can see wanting the pack to be have a more compact/streamlined shape because it feels better balanced as I'm moving. And by extension I guess if you could downsize your pack there is appeal in having a smaller pack on your back. But to each his own.
@@Jlundeen If you can’t fit things is a stuff sack comfortably in your pack you need a bigger pack or less stuff.
I guess I generally have less stuff which means I don't really have a need for stuff sacks at that point; so it's bit of both I suppose.
Once all my sleep and dry gear is in the pack liner, I can compress it quite well by pushing all the air out and then twisting the top of the bag. This gives me a nice uniform shape in the bottom of my pack which offers great weight distribution, not just back comfort (which as @muckus007 mentions, is sort of pack/frame dependent).
From there, I don't have a lot of odds and ends that would necessitate a stuff sack, let alone many stuff sacks. I do have a "ditty bag" for a few of the smaller random things I carry (it's a 4x6 baggie) and my FAK is in a bag, but that's it really.
@@TrailTestedOutdoors What you have is one big stuff sack filled with gear.
If water gets in that bag it gets everything wet.
Whatever works for you.
Wow lots of haters in here, but unfortunately we can't see downvotes because I'd love to see the overall consensus on this.
While certain waterproof stuff, compression, and organization bags have their time and place. KISS, less is more and I'm not even an UL person.
I typically have a trash compactor bag, 2 trash bags and a pancho. Trash compactor bag just as a main pack liner and trash bag 1 for dirty laundry (if it's over a 2 day trip), trash bag 2 for trash and cleanup along the trail (I wish more people did this, especially at trailheads.) People in general are over-packing and quick access stuff or gear that you need "organization" for should be on easy access pockets or zippered side areas.
as of now, 1,062 likes...42 dislikes. Let me get this straight...you have a bag for laundry? YOU BRING MORE THAN ONE CHANGE OF CLOTHES?
You need to be intelligent in using stuff sacks. if you use a large stuff sack for your closths you can mold it aroung other items. Depending on the activity you are doing you may want stuff sacks. The main thing stuff sacks do is allow orginization. But the key is use oversiaed stuff sacks.
WHAT THE HELL? How is that in any way shape or form having any detrimental effect toward your pack? It may be KILLING you, but it is not harming your pack! Let alone killing it!!! I HATE CLICKBATE TITLES!!!!