Leaving Pietism | Theocast
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 01. 2021
- At Theocast, we talk a lot about pietism. What is it? What is the difference in piety and pietism? How does pietism affect us? Is there something better? If you find yourself struggling in the Christian life, is there something wrong with you? The guys answer these questions and more.
Members Podcast Description: The guys give advice to those who are stuck in a pietistic context.
FOLLOW Theocast:
theocast.org
/ theocast_org
/ theocast.org
/ theocast_org
Yall could do this specific theme over and over again weekly and it would never ever get boring. It is always refreshing to hear this. Our propensity toward pietism runs so deep...we so need to continually be rehearsed into what our precious Lord Jesus has done for us...its like we scratch and fight to want some part of our own souls eternal security. Thanks be to Christ and God's sovereignty in salvation & Sanctification!
Theocast has been extremely helpful in explaining a lot of the internal struggles I’ve been dealing with, as a fairly new Christian. My only experience with Christianity was as a broken teenager, in some strange hyper-charismatic churches. It’s brought me closer to Christ, in that it’s allowed me to understand scripture more clearly. The biggest relief has come by looking more to Jesus and his finished work, than looking at myself and my lack of ability to live up to perfection. I just wanted to say thank you, and I’m very grateful for your podcast. God bless!
Thank you for taking the time to share, Danny! We are thankful you have found rest.
This doctrine is new to me and is so comforting to my soul. I am recovering from years of Seeker/Purpose Driven and Word of Faith teaching and feeling like I am on a hamster wheel all the time. I look forward to learning more. God Bless guys.
Right?
Almost my entire 51 yrs of salvation have been under the blanket of charismatic/ Pentecostal doctrine; the last 2 yrs of experience in a HYPER, name it & claim it, NAR environment were so eye opening! Praise GOD for the leading of The Holy Spirit out of it! Years ago I loved R. Sproul, John MacArthur, Dr. James Kennedy, J Vernon Magee, but I was so scared I was blaspheming the Holy Spirit by not “practicing” the gifts(🙄) that I strayed away from a reformed doctrine.
This podcast is so helpful and refreshing!
I find that a lot of Puritan writing has good bit of pietism as you defined it. They were helpful for the most part but I had to stay away from them because it was creating fear, doubt and lack of assurance.
Thanks for sharing. Yes, this is very true
This. Blessed. Me. Changed. My. Life. PRAISE The LORD!!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Holy moly, you guys speak so much truth. I am screaming in agreement with everything y'all are saying. Sometimes I feel so guilty for thinking the things you all are saying, but it's the truth!
Thank you for making this video. I have struggled with assurance of salvation off and on since I was a child. I was often worried I would lose my salvation or that I was a false convert and would one day hear those words "Depart from me" and end up in hell. I have always known we are saved by grace, not by works but then I always felt like I had to maintain my salvation and I knew I wasn't doing enough to do that. I rarely felt like I was at rest and at peace. I even started worrying that the other Christians around me (family and friends) weren't true Christians. It is an exhausting way to live. I had this angst inside me and something just didn't seem right. This video really provides clarity and sheds light on what I was struggling with. And it reminds me that my assurance of salvation rests on the finished work of Christ, not on how well I can perform to prove myself a good Christian.
Your comment describes my situation very clearly - it's as if it came from me. I think I was a bit okay until I heard from pastors who seem to imply that we can lose our salvation and CZcams videos about the fruit of the Spirit as a sign of one's salvation. That's what made me so paranoid because I tried to see if I was producing fruit or not, and if I didn't notice anything then I'd question if I was truly saved or not. All of these things mixed with my low self-esteem have really my Christian walk a pain for the past 18 years. I always feel guilty if I get out bed or go to bed without praying, or going a day without reading a verse. A part of me sees God as this strict parent who expects good grades all the time.
Same here. You're not alone.
A lot of longstanding anxieties is being addressed.I have always wondered why I appear to be the only one that struggles....because everybody else are "victorious"!
Weird thought but after coming out of catholicism I noticed pietism is much MoRE common in evangelical circles. Which is CRAZY bc you know, faith alone. I always found that so surprising.
It’s backwards.
Very interesting point. Can you explain more?
@neroauz674 I just have found that evangelicals say they are definitely not a Christian if they're wearing THAT. Or can u believe they said THAT, they must not be Christians. I notice Catholics are not like that at all, they may call out a sin but do not make a judgment call on someone's salvation
Ok Thanh you I think I understand what you re saying. But my question is more about if you saw the same relating style to sin in Catholicism and in evangelicalism. Have you seen the same pietism and self reliance regard to justification and sources of assurance? Thanks a lot for your answer God bless you
@@Aur985Pietism gets the cart before the horse. Salvation from faith + Works/repentence/obedience (something we DO/perform) rather than the good works resulting from our faith. So it’s backwards.
Fortunately… you guys have opened my eyes to understanding that I am in the middle of a hyper introspective church and my wife and I are unfortunately leaving that church :-(
I'd like to see the discussion of this pietism and the "New Perspective on Paul" that I found out about a few days ago! If my interpretation is correct these would go hand in hand.
Wow just what I needed to hear as a pastor of twenty years !! Thanks guys
Needed this
So true!! 🙏😁
This podcast is from 3 yrs ago and, even more so now, being as a Berean is frowned upon as a “religious spirit”!
Yes!!!! So good!!!
Waw Im greatful to God for granting me 😭understanding is true what you guys are speaking before my nervous breakdown do to the spiritual attack do to trying my hardest to keep the Law n becoming discourage n passive..Im greatful to God he allowed me to fall to show me the awfulness of sin n the need of my precious Saivor Lord Jesus to save me from the Law
By works n set apart n so on was nothing but filthy rugs I pray he will continue strengthen my faith in the truth 💕
God bless you brothers 💕🙏
Luther gave Melancthon a great antidote to pietism in his statement, "Go and sin boldly".
maybe you guys could discuss the connection between pietism and legalism...that could be another podcast...
I made this comment at 13 minutes and now Jon is talking about legalism at 18:00 :)
Man with the chrome buffalo 🦬 ✨
Thanks for this video very much. I would say that I don't struggle with feeling my that salvation is in flux, but whether I'm a child in "favor" with the Father. I'm sure that there are others that feel the same. This, too, I'm sure is a symptom of pietism/pietistic leanings.
At 14:50, what you are describing is exactly Paul's point when he says the law is the strength of sin. Being under the burden of obligation creates and strengthens the desire to sin. It leads to exhaustion and death. GRACE is the answer to sin, not LAW.
Amen!
I just love all the Theocast Merchs you have there, guys 🤗! Curious where to get those 😃
printful.com Thanks!
I’ve seen the worst of pietism. But I also lament dead confessionalism. Both are on a sliding scale.
No worries. The prolonged Kyrie of St. John Chrysostom has been updated to omit, among many things "faith" and "piety" and "fear of God" and "salvation of our souls". Anybody notice? It is widely used since the original translation was thrown out.
There has to b a balance, though. We are to deny ourselves and be in a constant battle against the flesh. I know people who have taken Theocast’s teachings to mean that it isn’t important to be in the Word daily and that watching very worldly things is okay. I fully agree that we need to focus and meditate more on resting Christ. But please be careful of downplaying the importance of obedience or the struggle we must have with the flesh. In my flesh I would only be too glad to be told that I don’t have to actively mortify my flesh, with the leading of the Spirit. But the scriptures are clear that the Christian life is hard and we must be redeeming the time.
You’re loving people with this advice! 👏👏👏 Our value is secure in Christ, but the blood of the Lamb deserves our devotion.
I appreciate what you guys are doing. I really do! However could I suggest that you have a colleague join you that has a contrary viewpoint on the subject? This is basically three guys who share the same viewpoint. It would be good to hear the arguments of a differing perspective.
Again I like and concur with what you're saying, we are to live out of what God HAS and IS doing in us by His Spirit! We are to live out of that. We co- labor with Christ in our sanctification (working out our salvation) The Apostles all spoke to the churches then and to us now about living out of the New Creation.
Anyway just a thought! Great stuff guys! 🙏
I have personally found people stuck in pietism accuse others of doctrines of demons for preaching free Grace or predestination or specific atonement...... Not all, but most.
I personally think many reformed theologians have a difficult time articulating TULIP in a more orthodox manner. Tulip is the worst thing for reformed theology, and if we are unable to articulate doctrine very accurately it is easily misconstrued, as was Paul. I'm pretty sure God did it this way so He will be glorified by all believers in and out of our poor doctrine.
These guys are the most accurate of ANY other online teachers that I have come across online.
Thanks for obedience to the Truth=Jesus=Word
One can remind people how the Christian life is supposed to be lived out without teaching pietism.
But what about people who have been Christians for 25 years but never grown up? They still live a carnal life. I am not saying they are saved, but why are they still a baby 20+ years in?
The tool was a speed square
In my experience the Christian groups who are the most concerned about "showing the fruit" are the Reformed.
Is there some Reformed pastor's that use Pietism? Does Paul Washer use Pietism? I love Washer, but I just want to see if I'm understanding it.
It is strange to me too. Pietism is luteran context. It looks like the consequences of Jonathan Edwards revival.
Paul Washer looks like coming forma Edwards trend
This topic is actually pretty tricky, I am including a link czcams.com/video/ZYF2_fmmBKU/video.html in which I honestly cannot discern whether this is good old fashioned Pietism or subtle reformed soteriology, because to me, Reformed theology is very nuanced.
If you are maintaining your faith, you are eternally secure. What cannot be earned by good works cannot be forfeited by bad works. If we are saved through faith, then we can be unserved by through our lack of faith. Baal worshippers who were formerly Christ worshippers are not eternally secure. Ephesians 2:10 says we were created for good works. So Christ cannot be Lord because you are afraid that you will trust in works?
Give up the idea that those who want to be saved think they can sin because those who want to be saved hate sin. Big difference, those who think they can sin have not been crushed by the law, they want to be saved by the fear message but have not come to their end. This is a way to filter goats and sheep.
Thanks for all the great videos addressing pietism. I appreciate it and I think you're doing a good work. I appreciate that you're in the reformed tradition and against pietism. However I want to point out that pietism will always find fertile ground in reformed theology because of its many errors.
I would instead encourage people to leave reformed theology altogether and join themselves to a church that teaches something much more biblical, much more comforting, much more gospel centered, and much more objective to cure the illness of introspection. Such a theology as contained in the book of Concord and held to by confessional Lutheran churches.
Thanks for the encouragement. There is much pieitism in Lutheranism as well. Just ask 1517 about this
@@THEOCAST Indeed there is. Pietism exists in pretty much every theological tradition. It's my belief though that its basically an accepted norm in a lot of reformed churches today and that reformed theology lends itself more to being pietist. But its certainly fair of you to point out that there is plenty of pietism in Lutheranism.
We don’t believe RT leads to it, but when RT is not taught fully leaving certain parts out or overlooked. RT by nature is anti pietism.
The reason I say this is because of the soteriology of the reformed. Since the sacraments cant really be means of grace in the same way as in Lutheranism then you look at sanctification for assurance more often. I'm glad that you guys don't but I think its because of inconsistency. I'm not trying to trash you or have a CZcams fight, just a dialogue. You probably will disagree with most if not all of what I'm saying. At the end of the day I still appreciate your content.
Thanks for the encouragement
So its another term for Lordship
Sentamentalism = Thinking one cares more than Jesus.
I hear error in some of these systematic theological comments that denigrate the clear words of the Gospel. Reformed sometimes put assurance and rest at the center of theology as if our state of mind and our ego are the centerpiece of the gospel, Hitchens called this out in his atheism titles, that believers are often obsessed with self-assurance and status. The benefits of studying the desert fathers is you see their concern is for God and neighbor and not themselves. Lose yourself in the ocean of Scripture and you won’t keep looking inward. Paul in Romans actually wishes he could trade his salvation for his Jews. When is the last time a Christian was heard to say “I don’t care about my salvation, I am more concerned about you.” Instead, I have only ever heard a constant drum beat of individualized obsessive compulsive soteriology, like Luther on steroids, hyper self-centered instead of other-focused.
Christianity is an inside job, stop looking at the wrong things you do because that is your works not surrendered to God. Look at what God is doing inside, it is based on how you are loving others, there is a conviction and a hatred for how you treat someone, followed up by desperate prayers to God to change that defect. This is the mark of a true Christian.
Mambo jambo.