Mast Bumping - Causes and Prevention
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- čas přidán 23. 03. 2008
- U.S. Army
Mast Bumping - Causes and Prevention
NTIS AVA11345VNB1, 1982
This video will help Army pilots identify the warning signs of mast bumping and move to correct them before a bump occurs.
As a UH-1 helicopter pilot, I can confirm the proper way to avoid mast bumping is to always be playing Fortunate Son at high volume
While doing maybe 100 knts at treetop level. "Those were th' days my friend..."
Yeah but that only works for the one blaring it if you know all their names. Any one helicopter with guys names you don't know will immediately explode for cinematic effect.
I think that only works when played through an 8 - track. CD or MP3 may not function. In either case also use collective to control UH-1 and AH-1 of any flavor to control height, instead of cyclic.
Love it.
czcams.com/video/UoOXlVBlFRA/video.html
greetings from a former huey pilot of german air force... and dont forget to establish 70 kias and 300 ft/min descent rate for strongest flappin sounds. cheers mate ;)
They're not joking when they say a Helicopter is trying to kill you as soon as you start the engine.
50 thousand moving parts, trying to become undone.
Kobe
Flying a helicopter is just a race against time to get to the LZ before the helicopter remembers it isn’t supposed to be able to fly.
@@ireviewshtuff well, helicopters don't fly, they can't. They beat the air into submission.
@@crazyralph6386 every mechanism in the universe tends to the lowest energy point. The more energy involved the higher the chance of failure this is always true
I'll never fly a helicopter but this seems like an important thing to be aware of
It might come in handy when they add helicopters to Microsoft Flight Simulator.
It was a bigger issue on Cobras based on the way they were flown.
It was probably the main factor in a recent fatal accident.
czcams.com/video/sMQFx7EipKU/video.html
Almost as practical for the layman as a tutorial on how to safely operate your nuclear submarine.
🎯
Speaker: "As an Army helicopter pilot, you must understand mast bumping"
Me (a highschool teacher): "All right"
That's Sir, yes sir.
Film is from 1980, we were teaching kids right out of high school how to fly those.
at least you could teach your students how to fly one in DCS lol
@@nabilbudiman271 ah yes I see, a man of culture
@@westondavis1682 You forgot to call him "private Pyle"
As a kid I witnessed a helicopter accident were the entire rotor came off the helicopter.
I remember very clearly the helicopter pulled up sharply then leveled quickly At the time the rotor separated from the aircraft and the chopper fell to the ground rolling up side down just before impact.
I rode my bike to the crash site but there were clearly no survivors. That is one thing I wish I could unsee.
Now, finally after 40 years I know what happened. It wasn't an Army chopper. Just a civilian.
Wow that sounds traumatizing to see as a kid
@@DamplyDooas a human
Can't imagine that horrible vision. Bet you had night mares for ages.
Didn’t tighten the Jesus bolt?
@@jonginder5494Mast shear. The whole point of this video.
I don't know why youtube recommended this to me but I watched all 20 minutes. The man has a voice of an angel.
one day, don't know why, you will be put in a UH-1 at low altitude.. then .. you know why
i'm sure we have to find this guy's name, he must have done other instructional videos. I was hoping his name is John Bransby (see the end title card) , but that's the name of the Production company. there's a few other videos from the 70s on youtube and Google by JB.
I cannot make out the man's name tag at 2:01, i think i see "Millington" but i could be wrong.
@@Defender78 J. Don Ferguson is the name
The reason we’re all getting this recommended, is because of that viral wreck of that Robinson helicopter crash. Mast bumping is going to be most likely the cause of the accident, and this probably will save many lives of future helicopter pilots.
It's fun watching the algorithm work in real time.
What does this have to do with delta-p and crabs?
Forty years later and this video is still relevant 👍
Very, that's because there are still a lot of teetering Rotor systems out there. More modern designs don't have much of a problem with it, i.e Bell 407, 412, 429, most of the French and Italian models etc.
ye physics is still a thing.
@@unapologetic7900 Well I mean you aren't flying the same conditions. You're not trying to contour the ground to avoid being struck by combatants. Most helicopter flight is almost the same as fixed wing. Straight paths, wide arcs, etc etc.
I consider it to be largely irrelevant. I don't even know if this whole flapping thing is even true. Sounds pretty contrived to me. Conspiratorial.
Mast bumping gave me nightmares while I was in flight school. I was very cautious when flying stateside. Then when I arrived in country my unit IPs threw a lot o myf timidness out the window. Combat flying is different than stateside flying. Now I'm just 72 and wish I could be back in the cockpit.
Careful what you wish for! There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.
It’s pretty rare(if not non existent) in the commercial/civilian world, simply cause no pilot should ever have to be that aggressive with the cyclic? If so, I’d feel sorry for the relief pilot who comes in and flys that ship, that’s all twisted to hell because of some cowboy abusing the bird.
But for military ops, I can definitely see it happen quite often? In fact, I’m sure you guys had no choice to negative g-load the bird, just to avoid ground fire!!! Pretty much rolling the dice and choosing the lesser of two evils, hoping for the best? Thanks for your service!
@@crazyralph6386 - R-44?
@@bradcrosier1332 yep, you’re right, Robbie’s are definitely the exception. Why most experienced pilots I know, NEVER apply to companies operating their flying coffins.
I lost two buddies ferrying one of those death traps, only 1hr away from the factory in California.
@@crazyralph6386 - Wow, I’m sorry to hear that. I’m fixed wing only, hence why I asked that with the question mark - I knew the Robinson has had some issues, but I wasn’t certain of the exact nature of them. Why are they so more prone to issues than other piston designs? I get the issues with a low-mass rotor, but from the little I understand, that seems to only be the beginning of the problems with them (he says, reflecting on the sightseeing ride he took in o e last summer). Genuinely curious, since it is outside of my area of expertise.
Got many hours in Hueys, mast jumping probably caused many crashes in Nam where a sudden downward forward stick control input to follow the terrain was done to minimize targeting from the ground..But even after all these years no one knows for sure
Do the modern helicopters have this issue too or is this just a matter of old technology?
Well, you put the question wrongly (Not a put down!) It depends on the design and they way the helicopter is flown. Some design s that predate the Huey, don't seem to have an issue with mast bumping and some designed after the Busy do have an issue with Mast Bumping. Remember designs must also take into account for cost and intended use. Humm, in America probably 90% of all cars are sold new as automatic transmissions.
But you get more control with a Manuel transmission which is an older idea..so which is better, and the automatic trans, costs more to make. I flew 5 kinds of helicopters and many different models or versions of Hueys.
Interested in flying helicopters?
@@raywhitehead730 Thanks for the info! I really don't know anything about helicopters but recently have taken an interest and stumbled on this video.
I don't know why some videos are recommended to me but I feel like it's really important that I know these things.
In case of a zombie apocalypse your group finds a fully tanked and ready to go Huey - you wanna be the guy that says: "Oh, I know how to fly this! And don't worry y'all, I know all about how to avoid mast bumping too."
"Mast-what now?"
I love seeing J. Don Ferguson as the narrator/ instructor? He later became one of the SEC’s best basketball officials from 1982-1992. As a former basketball clock operator at LSU during most of that that time, I had the pleasure of many pregame conversations with him and his crew. He later became a well known character actor in movies like “ The Longest Yard”, “ My Cousin Vinny” and many others. Sadly, he passed in 2008. Kind and great man!
I remember watching this video from my days as a Huey crew chief. About 1990 we started getting rubber bumpers on our Hueys. By 2000 we were pretty much into Blackhawks.
woah... hueys stayed around for that long? I thought blackhawks were introduced in the 90s
@@LanaaAmor yes, they were around until the mid 2000's in some legacy units. We lost all of ours in Iowa around 2002.
@@krisgreenwood5173 did they fly into combat?
@@LanaaAmor I did not. I rejoined the National Guard in 1985 and was in a Medevac unit that was activated for Desert Shield and Desert Storm. I flew with a crew out of Robert Gray Army Airfield as the crew chief , Ft Hood Texas. I was on flight staus for just about 13 years. My last 3 years I was a platoon sergeant in a Blackhawk/Chinook maintenance unit. My first 4 years 1973 to 1977 I was an MP.
@@LanaaAmor Marines still fly a recently upgraded variant of the twin engine huey, the UH-1Y Venom Gunship
anyone who uses a pocket protector knows what they are talking about.
Lmao
I don’t know why but CZcams has been recommending me old training videos like this and how mechanical firing solutions were calculated on old warships. Good stuff
These videos and this variety of narration compose most of my absolute favorite things of all times. This is what a real engineer or scientist should sound like.
lol
I was waiting for him to start talking about pre famulated amulite and spurving springs
@@spannaspinna The updated rotor configuration went with hydraulic framistan dampeners instead. That and the improved 'twisting' couplers have improved the slick's and the snakes handling by a bunch...although the 540 rotor system on the snake is similar, they also included the new lead-lag hydro-coupler on the swashplate feedback loop. Betcha ya didn't know that one...
@@spannaspinna and side fumbling prevention 😀
@@kentanch2601 especially on the cardinal grameters
Back in the olden days in Cobras, we would unload the tail rotor ( right pedal ) to keep the fuselage from rolling. Got to be smarter than the helicopter and use all of the controls. Low g , stomp on right pedal then aft cyclic. Works with engine failure also.
Survived 23 years flying AH s. The mast springs were installed because we had very little training time. Experience also went away, and the Army stopped doing the skill maneuvers.
This just proves that helicopters can’t actually fly, and flying them is a constant task of convincing them they can.
That sounds scary to do one slip up and u could die
As soon as this video demonstrated the tail rotor thrust acting above the Center of Gravity as the reason for the roll, my initial thought was why not unload the tail rotor or at least correct the inadvertent bank angle with appropriate pedal.
My next though was, oh they would have thought of that. And if that doesn't work its probably because the tail rotor can not be totally unloaded, it probably always produces some thrust, just less than the main rotor torque, which still allows a yaw.
I see now that I was initially correct in my understanding.
These things are a Mechanical Engineers solution to flight! I lean toward fixed wing, aerodynamics and aeroelasticity.
Absolute respect for you guys, I fly a helicopter in VR flight simulators and I cant imagine doing it for a full day let alone a full career without dying
This is fascinating, I’ve read a lot of firsthand accounts from Huey and Cobra pilots in Vietnam, and hadn’t heard of this problem. Probably some survivor bias could be read into that. That or, as just one of a million things they had to watch for, they didn’t feel it rated mentioning. I’m really impressed with the guys who flew early choppers that didn’t have the collective tied into the throttle. Which meant that even more planning had to go into every maneuver.
I am unemployed living with parents and have never been on a helicopter but yt thinks it important for me to watch this at 2AM in the morning.
I know nothing about helicopters or the military, I don’t know how this got in my recommended, but I can’t stop watching
I am so glad the algorithm sent this video to me. Mast bumping was never on my radar until now.
Ok for real this guy has a awsome narrator voice, he could probly give a lecture about chewing gum and it would be thrilling
Check out how perfectly drawn the diagrams on the chalkboard are! 10/10 Production rating.
hahah
For real smokers voice
😂🤣😜
i guess I'm pretty off topic but does anybody know a good website to watch newly released tv shows online?
In 1966 I was in the Army in Germany. I thought helicopters were cool so I took a test to go to flight school. I passed it but chickened out cuz I always took the easy way out. I would have gone to Vietnam obviously and did not relish that idea. Hats off to those that had the balls.
These guys mastered CZcams's algorithm before it ever even existed...
Hmm. They discussed awareness of mast bumping in flight at reduced G, but never once mentioned the prohibition on negative g flight that has always been in the UH-1/AH-1 flight manual. I knew of this prohibition at age 14 when, as an air cadet on camp at an air base, 5 of us went flying in a RAAF UH-1. We did aerobatics including stall turns and wing overs to 145 degree bank angle, plus nap of the earth runs through nearby hills. Impressive, but risky.
There's no point in discussing it because there's no way that you could enter negative G without already entering low G. As well as the corrective procedures being the same as for reduced G
You were the guy who got the soap in Full Metal Jacket, weren't you?
i love that super low altitude flying over the top of the hill, nowadays people would be terrified by flying like that
That was very impressive maneuvering…
They wouldn't even be allowed to do it without getting in trouble.
Do they never fly Nap of Earth in, say, the Blackhawk?
Edit: I now see which part you mean tho, very impressive.
@@hunormagyar1843 iits possible flying like this might still be done in the military but i doubt theyd ever show it in an educational video for pilots
only you can prevent mast bumping... and forest fires. great video, love the music :)
Wow, they make such great quality documentaries.
I've got over 200 flight hrs on a CH47 with over 50 NVG hours. Never had to worry about it. Tandem rotors rule
Crazy to see how a machine larger than a schoolbus can move. I love the big brutes.
I don't think this has anything to do with tandems. It's about two bladed rotors mounted with semirigid hub in low g conditions. If someone builds a tandem or a synchropter with tethered rotors it will also be subjected to mast bumping. CH47 isn't subjected to that because it has a different rotor hub design.
I've got to ride in a helicopter four times in my life. It's amazing. I've always thought it would be so cool to fly helicopters. I probably shouldn't be allowed near one. My wife bought me an r/c helicopter years ago. Every time I try to fly it and start gaining altitude I panic and crash it. It's ended up on top of the house a couple of times.
I once had the "privilege" of riding in the back of a Huey with a reserve pilot who probably got to fly about three times a year, and he was making up for lost time. Squeaks, rattles, and tree branches whipping the door frame. Well, way too close to the door anyway. I'd rather have mud on my boots than puke anytime.
Best knowledge !!
Not too many ppl know the simple basics !!
Thank you !!
The music gives the years . Great upload!
Troy McClure sure did a great job here presenting a bunch of content that he didn't understand a word of!
As someone who has never flown a huey before, I'm glad youtube recommended this to me. You never know when a huey spawns out of nowhere and you can suddenly become a helicopter pilot.
I love these videos, thanks for uploading. Always be safe.
Thank you. I’ll keep this in mind when I’m flying around in my UH-1.
Dude, too funny. Dont forget to check your mast.
Me in my underwear on my couch on a Saturday afternoon:
Good thing i know how to prevent this now
The high frequency noise in this video is drilling into my skull. 😂
Seriously. THe pain
This narrator really gets around. Back in the seventies and eighties used to pitch automobiles for Dan Vaden Chevrolet in Savannah Georgia. His name is Don Ferguson. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Don_Ferguson
Good narration by the narrator guy narrating so well.
Very informative, thanks for archiving.
Super video !!!!!! Very well done !!!!
As a driver in Nordic (Norwegian) conditions, this sounds a lot like what happens when you meet a slippery (icy) road. If you feel the car is moving in a direction you don't want it to go, because it loses traction, it's easy to counter steer more and more, in order to get a reaction. Once the car does get traction again, the counter steer is hard and you violently jerk and end up somewhere you didn't want the car to go. When you feel the car slip a bit and start going somewhere you don't want it to go, you need to be gentle on the steering wheel. Once it gets traction again, it's easy to control where the car goes, then.
This sounds like the same thing, only instead of regaining traction, you loose the wheels and fly off a cliff.
Luckily, today you can experience this is super expensive simulators, without the loss of life. It is necessary to train this, because that way you know instinctively to be gentle on the controls once the low G's happens.
Loved the video!, very well explained!
R44 crash video led me here
Me too
The New Zealand crash? Me too.
Who is this gentleman in the video (the one demonstrating mast bumping)? I really enjoy watching these older videos like this. Very clear, calm, and to the point.
May SB-1 Defiant project success!
Love all these new comments on a older video.
Just EXCELLENT as always.
USARMY
Tks
Brazeagle
I'm sure he knows what he's talking about...after all he's got an awesome pocket protector
"The automatic lungulator was designed to control primary inclinometer destabulaor input. Due to thrust of the prembulator disc and the knobulation triangular disination damper, this increase in the possibility of dissembulation is exacerbated during low G operation..."..perfectly clear to me ...
You failed to mention the Flux Capacitor.
The voice🙂
Using the included advice, side fumbling was effectively prevented.
I must have been sleeping during this part of the video.
Now I can't unhear it.
The music is great too!
dude had a great voice
Screw it. I'll just drive.
This will come in handy
Never, but I had to watch.
Excellent Topic and Solutions 😀😮😀
Flying a helicopter is like trying to balance a baseball bat on your hand
Remember this video when I was at Rucker going through flight school back in the 1990's
I lived at nearby Enterprise in '83. Loved to see those Hueys; there were lots of them!
I was stationed at Ft Campbell. Ky after I got back from Nam...used to watch them fly over the base in 101 formation...cool then . I was a medic 3rd Field Hospital OR Saigon. 1972
Groovy music daddio. It was a cool and groovin' sound.
Great time to reccomend this...
I appreciate the helicopter stunt scenes on The A Team so much more after learning this stuff.
14 years later it recommended to me thanks you youtube
I love these old films!
So if your were not afraid of flying a chopper before, you should be now.
Folks, we have a s load of more videos to watch if you want to fly your chopper and return in one piece.
After watching and understanding a few dozen of these, you will fully appreciate the simplicity and safety of flying an inherently unstable aerodynamic body.
If you dont have tinnitus before this video, you'll sure as hell have it after this video.
I didn't even know this was a thing. Very interesting.
God Bless the US Army!
Thanks for posting this. It's old and crusty, but the information is timeless.
This old school teaching is very effective
This is a slick video
Love the music!
Fascinating film. And all this time I thought bumping your mast made you go blind.
I personally only saw once, visible evidence of mast bumping, on the mast itself. You could see the dent in the mast, thank god he got back safe.
This is even more important these day, with so many people flying all those lightly built Robbies.
Yes. Like the one that recently fell with the tail rotor severed.
@@MrTruckerf and that was Diffenetly Mast Bumping
sweet video
This reminds me of speed wobble in a motorcycle which can lead to tank slapping. Counterintuitively, the correct response is to let go of the handlebars.
"When in doubt, pin it" works in most situations, too.
What amuses me is that in the entire 20 minute video, there is only one point where they remotely suggest it will result in your death by the rotor basically sheering itself off and if you weren't paying attention or technically brained enough in that exact moment you would never know.
Very Old but Very Accurate
No idea how I got here. I’m not a helo pilot but this film seems really important. If I ever end up in a UH-1 I’ll be sure to watch negative G situations and pull collective after if it can’t be avoided
How can it be that these old declassified military like sounding videos are often so good?
ill remember this.. not sure when i will need it, but i might
@blancolirio this is a perfect complement to your video
The actor giving the lecture played the Governor of Tennessee in the movie Tank in 1984.
I love Tank, James Garner kicked ass
Not a pilot but I guess I’m ready in the event I’m thrust into combat and the pilot and co-pilot become unable to perform their duty.
Not sure why I’m fascinated by videos I will never have a use for;)
I love these
And WHHYYYY is everyone all-of-a-sudden seeing this 14 year old video? Way to go, YT algorithm!
Important stuff
The best side of youtube
Memories...
this song is soulful and kino
Just imagine the sheer delight of the Nam pilots, who went from the teeter totter rotors of a slow Huey, to a semi articulated Hughes 0H-6A sports car?
That’s like converting an avid Barry Manilow listener, to Metallica’s first 3 albums lol!!!
i fly RC helis :D we can do crazy stuff becouse our rotor systems are rigid or semi-rigid
we also have scale working for us since the blades can be made much stiffer and we have little flapping
add on insane power to weight and you have an aircraft that can do just about any thing
New drinking game. Take a shot every time "mast bumping" is said in the video.
Informative
I keep thinking "When are the Mystery Science Theater guys going to show up?"
Damn good video.
thanks so much, this was really helpful for me :D
Thanks for this! Now I know exactly what to do the next time I will never fly an helicopter in my life!
14 years later this video appears in my recommended.
Gotta watch out for that mast bumping boys! ⚔️
Miss bumping with the ladies!