How A Vertical Piano Action Works I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 27. 06. 2024
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How A Vertical Piano Action Works I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
There are a lot of things that happen in a piano action from the time the key is pressed until the time the string plays a note. This video goes through the different things that happen in a vertical piano action when a note is played.
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đ„ Video Chapters
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00:00 - Intro
00:42 - Piano Keys
01:42 - Capstan & Whippen
02:09 - Jack & Hammer Butt
04:43 - Back Check and Catcher
05:18 - Action Damper
05:59 - Action Spoon
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âïž Wood Dowel Capstan
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âïž Piano Hammers
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âïž Whippen
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âïž Asian Type Upright Piano Hammer Butt
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âïž Piano Hammer Butt - Standard Upright
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âïž Piano Hammer Butt - Compact S2 Type
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âïž Vertical Piano Damper Spoons
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piano action is a work of art!
All that from a single action. Amazing.
I loved this explanation, something clicked for me watching this. Your videos are on point and massively appreciate the effort you put in to make the explanations clear. Thank you so much!
Flawless explanation!
I'm about to learn how to tune pianos. I've been studying and learning all the parts of the upright action. Understanding how every part of this mechanism works really helps with memorizing the part names. Thanks for such an instructive video. I really feel like I know what happens when a piano key is pressed on an upright piano. Next I'll work on learning and understanding the grand action.
Glad our videos have been helpful. Best wishes in your pursuit of learning piano technology.
Hey just thought I'd share that this just helped me fix my piano -- the regulating button felt had worn down, so the hammer was getting stuck against the strings. Watching this I could see those little eye-screws to lower the button, and now those keys are all fixed! Thanks!
Thanks! I'm glad the video helped.
... and that whole complex, meticulously accurate action has to get repeated for each key in the piano. You have to respect the craftsmen who made pianos by hand, in the days before mechanised production.
Sweeeeaar!!!
So appreciate all your videos.
Glad you like them!
Great video, thank you.
Thank you so much for doing this video! until not long ago I was a performance major at a Conservatory here in california and now I'm switching to a program studying Piano Technology (more fascinating) in August and have been searching all over for different action demonstrations just to get a better overview before I begin my training, and your channel is really giving me a good insight. Awesome video though! :)
Very helpful. Thanks!
Very interesting! Today I started to take my piano apart to see if I could get it to play a bit smoother. This video was very informative and helpful and made me understand a bit more! Thanks!
Brilliant ! really good to see that - thanks ,,..> as a youngster I used to remove our piano panels and gaze inside - only now' , 65 years on,, have I learned how the hammers work,.. a lot of complicated but ingenious movement goes on there,.. and I can understand why quality pianos cost so much.
Glad it helped
Amazing job!! Thanks for sharing!!
Very helpful! Thank you for this.
Thank you very much Mr.Howard for explaining piano action,I'm forwards you in most of your videos,you're awesome...Greetings!
Hi Besim,
Thanks for watching. I'm always grateful to hear that our videos are helpful for our viewers.
Really helpful, thanks
awesome tutorial! You are the best
very interesting ...thank you
Very good video.
You can see the result of each little problem that needed solving to make the piano work. You can see the progression from a simple lever to a lever and a bellcrank to a more complex machine. Rube Goldberg stuff. Love it.
:-)
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Thank you so much for doing this, I am apprentecing to become a piano technician and this is really helping me learn the basics of the upright action and especially remember the names of each part. Also, you sound like Bob Odenkirk, lol.
Thank you
Thanks so much for this video and all of your videos! I am currently learning how to tune and repair pianos to become a certified piano technician and your videos are very helpful! I'm a 'detail' person so I greatly appreciate the time you take to explain the details of it all :)
Thanks for watching Jamie. I'm glad our videos have been helpful in your learning process!
Are you a piano technician now ? That's pretty cool :D
Thankyou for all your detailed explanation videos. They have been extremely helpful. At around 5min, can I suggest that the hammer does need to fall all the way back, when repeating a note, because otherwise the jack won't engage.
Thanks Shane for the tip. I don't always think of all the details when putting these videos together.
Great explanation! Could you please make the same video but for grand piano action? I haven't found one on your channel
Fantastic explanation thanks so much for sharing AAA+++
My pleasure!
This video is NEARLY perfect thankyou... I was waiting with bated breath to find out what that little strip of canvas is called, what it's for, and how you repair one that has become detached... sadly as the 7 minutes ticked away I realised you weren't going to tell me! If you can tell me now, or direct me to another video that covers this topic, I'd be very grateful. Best wishes, Paul.
I think you're referring to the bridle strap. After many years of use on a piano, it's not unusual for this to break. Here is a video which shows how to replace the broken bridle strap: czcams.com/users/edit?o=U&video_id=qL6if3B6bWg
That link doesn't work. The correct one is czcams.com/video/qL6if3B6bWg/video.html
Thank-You very much for this explanation.
_Could the repetition rate be increased by placing a weight inside the whippen, slightly above where the capstan contacts it ?_
Good content, good audio, video could be better, closer.
I'm actually slightly interested in making my own piano as something both playable and something to remember for the rest of my life, but in the end, mostly for fun XD This is very informative and helpful and down to every detail. I appreciate it greatly.
That would be quite an undertaking to make your own piano. It can be done though. There is a technician I know who is in the process of building a double ended grand piano which means that it will have a keyboard at each end with two actions and tow sets of strings in one case. I'll be curious to see it when it's completed.
I'd be making an upright XD I don't have room for a grand to begin with. Fortunately for me, I work in a lumber mill, and can get the wood for free, or next to free. My grandfather who lives about 7 minutes away basically has an entire woodwork shop in his garage. Overall a lot of the stuff I'd need is being handed to me on a silver platter, but I have to figure out all the odds and ends first :p
you can do it don't be afraid. try to use a cnc machine wherever possible. @@dwalters98
You can see how the bridle straps work at 5.00 if you slow down the speed to 0.25.The whippen starts to fall after the hammer hits the string.That pulls the bridle strap straight and it jerks the hammer back in time for the next note .The jack is already in place due to the little spring .
At normal speed the bridle strap always looks loose . You see where it makes good jerk backwards at 1/4 speed .
Hi there, thank you for this video, very informative. Do you have any videos that show how to repair a sticking key? Thank you!
We do have a video on diagnosing a sticking key. We also have videos which show how to fix some of the most common causes for a sticking key.
Me right before this video: I bet I could fix my piano.
âŠand thatâs the entire joke đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Hahah! You can do it!
Nice video - informative - I have the "reverse" problem on one note. The jack will sometimes not pop out from under the hammer butt - it's not every time, just 30% of the time. Would you suggest replacing felt and leather on that butt, and checking the flange freedom of movement?
You could lubricate the leather with some PTFE powder.
Hello i would like to know how the lateral metalic support (not present in this video) is called ??
There is two of them on each side of the action board. It has like a "H" form and is the support for all pivot axes
Hello! Where can I purchase this piano action demonstration device?
What accounts for the fact that more force is needed to hit a low key e.g. C1 (heavy action) when compared to a high key e.g. C8 (light action) while leaving the mid-range keys with substantial action? Is it due to the weight carried by the wooden key at one end of the horizontal bar? Can the key actions be adjusted?
At least some of the difference has to do with the fact that the hammers are much larger on the lower end of the piano so they will weigh more. There are things that can be done to adjust the weight of the keys.
Do you have videos on how the sostenuto pedal works? Im trying to repair one. Thanks
At this point we donât have any videos on the sostenuto pedal yet.
this video is m'kay!
thank you so much for this video .. i have a question and i need help please . some keys of my piano are mute unless i hit the keys very hard .. how can i make touch response light and to play normal ? thank you
It sounds like your piano needs some action adjustments. It could be that the hammer isnât getting close enough to the strings before it does what is called let-off.
I have not been able to make the adjustment. I will attempt to do it again soon. I would appreciate any help.
Which adjustment are you having trouble with?
I've been trying to figure out how the damper is supplied with pressure against the string...is there a spring behind the damper arm somewhere?
Yes, there is a damper spring which is the source of the tension for the damper lever. It is attached to the damper lever flange and pushes up against the back of the damper. If you look closely you will see what looks like a wire pushing up against the damper lever.
After bending the damper spoon (towards the pianist) in order to lighten the action weight, will it leave a very small gap between the spoon itself and the wooden piece that connects to the damper? So that the damper will raise a little later when hitting the key.
Yes, that is correct.
What happens when the hammer does not reset to its resting position? I looked and nothing seemed broken nor loose nor lacking any spring/parts. Just baffles the mind.
Also can the sustain pedal rod be repaired as its tip is rusted and broken off? Or does it need to be replaced completely? Where do you even get parts like that? What's the cost?
I adjusted my action out of the piano and when I replace it in the piano the backchecks donât contact the hammerbutts. Iâve adjusted the capstans and the jacks. What other adjustments would correct this?
Maurice P
For an upright piano it's important to regulate the action with it in the piano otherwise things won't work well when you put it back in. I would try making the adjustments with the action in the piano.
With it in the piano the only adjustment I can figure is to bend the backchecks and that is considered the worst thing to do by the experts! So what will bring them back?
@@moplummer9967 I'm curious if you ever fixed this?
Just got a piano...over 100 yrs old. Just adjusted all the dead slack out of keys. Do i need the bridal strap if the hammer falls back consistently? Over half are broken.
Youâll mainly need the bridle straps to be intact if you take the action out.
how does the sustain pedal attach to the dampers such that it doesn't interfere with the rest of the action?
There is a series of rods and levers called the piano trapwork that connects the pedals to the rest of the action.
I want to restore my old baldwin upright piano, it's got a bunch of sticky keys, and many keys require a different amount of force to strike the hammer to the string, and also many keys can only be played forte, not softly. Also many keys are struck with the same force but cause the hammer to strike the string with a different volume. Also the pedals don't work. I dont know where to start. I am wondering how much it would cost to just pay someone to restore it.
Hi - I've been messing with my own piano, so while I'm not very expert I'd hazard a guess and say it's not likely to be worth it to pay a technician to restore the action. It's a fairly long job if anything is seriously worn, since every little procedure has to be repeated 88 times, and the money you pay quickly outstrips the value of the piano. But if it's fundamentally a valuable piano, then it makes sense to get it done right. On the other hand, pianos are in some ways simple machines, and by cautiously picking around you can't really make things worse if they're that bad to start with.
I have one key on my upright that does not work with the sustain pedal. It plays as if not using the pedal. The keys around it work fine.
It's possible that the damper lever is broken.
This explains why once you strike a note, if you want to repeat the same note, the key has to come up completely to reset the jack on the hammer. Otherwise the jack isn't hitting the hammer butt any more.
yeah but there is a mod for that czcams.com/video/ivuczNJPubo/video.html
Just curious, but has this mechanism evolved / gotten more robust over the past 50 years or so? Or just better materials and the same mechanism and number of parts?
There really hasn't been significant changes to the design of the piano action over the years. There are now some manufacturers using composite action parts rather than wood parts, but that has been the extent of advances.
my action on my mason and risch console is very heavy. the damper gets engaged as soon as the key is pressed. if the damper lifts later, with the action be a lot lighter? the action is so hard that i cant do trills
The action will be noticably lighter if the dampers are adjsusted to lift later as they suppose to do. However, your action may still feel heavy as there could be several causes for the heavy action.
What is the name of that New Jersey shaped piece of wood behind the spoon?
This is the action rail to which all the whippen flanges, damper flanges, and hammer flanges are attached. Basically this is the supporting rail to which all the other action parts are attached. This is a cut away cross section that you are seeing so it does not look this way in an actual piano action.
howardpianoind Hi, I am considering purchasing a used piano with a good sound. However, there is a problem where when I press one key, 2 adjacent hammers strike and 2 notes sound out. I have been unable to find information on this. Is this a fixable problem? It occurs with all keys, and the piano is very out of tune.
Hi Evan,
In most cases this is a fairly simple problem to fix once the cause is discovered. One common cause to this problem is that something is sitting on the back of the keys which pushes up on more than one whippen at a time. You'll also want to check to see if something has fallen inside the action. There must be something in the action or something might be out of alignment that is causing the problem. I hope this helps. Let me know what you're able to find.
howardpianoind Thanks very much.
âŠand here I was thinking about a homemade pianoâŠđ€Ż
I've got an issue with an upright that I play on frequently, on my low E, after the note is played, the hammer won't return all the way to the back check (I think that's what it's called). Any ideas on how to fix this?
I've discovered the problem. The E and Eb hammer are too close, causing them to rub when it trys to return, any ideas on how to fix this?
If the hammer is twisted, then you can heat the shank and twist it to straighten the hammer. If the hammer flange needs to be adjusted, you may need to paper the flange which we have another video which shows how to do this.
howardpianoind thanks I'll check it out!
so most upright pianos cannot have fast repeated notes like a grand piano? (which has the "let off" (escapement) mechanism)
Uprights are capable of trills and fast repeated notes but it takes more work from the pianist because in order to repeat a note on an upright the key has to be returned to almost the fully up position before playing again in order to reset the jack. The grand has a repetition lever that assists the resetting of the jack before the key returns to a fully upright position. This allows for the pianist to repeat a note without waiting for the key to return to a fully up position.
@@howardpianoind is it like this one, when the Jack go back down to be under the Knuckle, then it can push the hammer up again... it doesn't have to go all the way back to the original position but just need to go underneath the Knuckle czcams.com/video/95hnnb7KLAg/video.html
Howard I have a problem that I don't know how to fix on my spinet piano. The problem is when I play a key hard enough but not trying to destroy it hard, the strings resonate and I think its the dampers not pushing down hard enough on the strings. I have adjusted the damper pedal and it still happens. Do I need to replace the dampers or can I make the push harder against the strings?
If it is just one string the damper wire can be bent so that the damper damps all three strings. If it is just for one note then it could be that the damper wire needs to be bent toward the strings a little.
@@howardpianoind I think it's all of the strings as I hear the whole piano weakly resonate. And I have a new question, the keys don't seem to go down far enough to let the hammers reach let off. Do I remove some of the wood discs or do something else?
This would mean that you don't have any aftertouch. Increasing the key dip by removing some of the front rail paper or cardboard punchings would be one way of fixing this, but you don't want to have too much key dip so you may need to adjust the hammer blow distance.
@@howardpianoind it would appear that it's only the cardboard punchouts as the hammer blow distance is 42 mm. And thanks for sharing your expertise. One final question, I hope. How do you know what hammer size to choose from when selecting them on your website?
When choosing replacement hammer size you would choose based on the measurement of you hammer across the side of the hammer.
Why my upright piano sometimes doesn't hit the string?. When the key is not released completely it doesn't bring the hammer to the strike position.
It could be that the lost motion is adjusted so the jack is pushing up on the hammer butt when the hammer is at rest.
Where can I purchase a piano action model?
We can get the action models for you. The price is $300 for the upright action model or $400 for a grand action model.
where can we get that working model?
Unfortunately the supplier I got this from doesnât have this available anymore.
In a way itâs a lot like the action of a semi automatic gun like a dual action revolver
What is the purpose of that small ribbon attached to catcher?
That would be the bridle strap. The main purpose of the bridle strap is to keep the whippen from dropping too far down when you remove the action from the piano.
@@howardpianoind I was thinking it could prevents hammer from bouncing when it drops back on hammer rail, but not suspected that :O Thanks & greetings from Poland
Im having the issue addressed at 4:04 with the hammer staying forward (not actually stuck but just sitting forward). How do I fix this?
The jack is not hitting the hammer butt when the key is pressed...
It sounds like the hammer flange pinning is too tight. You could try some Protek CLP as this may fix the problem, but if it is too tight, you'll need to repin the flange and resize the hole so it isn't so tight.
What's the bridle strip doing??? It must be broken.
One of the main functions of the bridle strap is to keep the whipped up in place when taking the action out of the piano.
Interesting, although it does seem to have the added effect of pulling the hammer back somewhat as well.
It probably does have a small affect on the hammer return, though if everything is functioning as it should the hammer should return just as well without the bridle strap attached.
Howard, I have a piano where 5 keys won't work. The hammer won't hit the string when I strike the key fast. If I depress the key really, REALLY slow, the hammer will reach the strings. Otherwise, just chokes and stops. Can you steer my in the right direction here?
Is this on a vertical or grand piano?
@@howardpianoind vertical... I'm guessing it has something to do with the backcheck, hammer butt and/or jack?
It could be a tight jack flange. Can you see if the back check is catching on the hammer butt before the hammer reaches the strings?
@@howardpianoind at 5:50 in this video, that is what it looks like. I notice that the catcher needs to be higher than the backcheck when they connect, but if it is lower or at the same level, the hammer doesn't get pushed to the string. The force doesn't go NW, it just goes West, if that makes sense.
Can you see if the jack is resetting under the hammer butt when the hammer is at rest.
I have 3 issues on my piano, which looks similar to what the video shows, can someone help?:
1: 3 of the hammers are more forward (Closer to strings)
2: all 3 of those sometimes get stuck and wont play the note unless I tap it hard, in which case it will release and let me play for a bit until it happens again.
3: 2 of the hammers are too close to each other, practically touching and they get stuck together at times.
You need to adjust the "Let Off "on those 3 strings . Look up the phrase Let Off and you can see what they do to adjust it . The piano will be damaged if you bang on those keys .The the hammer will rebound because of the hammer bouncing off the string but the adjustment should leave the hammer free just before it strikes the string .Then check the bridle straps are tugging on the hammer butts to pull them back .
A late answer but it fills the gap.
One of my hammers wonât reach the string when played softly, when you show that slowly pressing the key gets close to the strings, when I do that one of my hammers is still about 1/2 inch away from the strings.
You'll need to adjust the letoff distance. We have a video on how to make this adjustment: czcams.com/video/XQ65x0R23Ac/video.html
howardpianoind thanks. I just really didnât want to have to spend $100+ for one key (thatâs how much someone in my town offered me to fix it).
howardpianoind ok does I fixed the let off but it still wonât hit the strings unless I practically slam my finger on the key.
It could be that the key wonât go down all the way for some reason. It could be that something I stuck under the key.
howardpianoind I just smacked it with my fist as hard as I could now it works đ€·ââïž
PLEASE just tell me how to get the backchecks adjusted! BTW Iâm the guy who stopped at your house for hammers and parts.
The only way to adjust the backchecks is to bend the wire the small amount that is needed to get it to the position for it to work best. This is standard practice for backcheck adjusting.
I'm not clear on the role of the bridle, and was hoping to see that explained.
One of the main roles of the bridle straps is to ensure that when you take the action out that the whippens don't drop too low so that the top of the jack doesn't end up being too far back under the hammer butt felt when the action is reinstalled. There may be a small amount of affect the bridle strap has on repetition, but this is debatable. So realistically the bridle strap really doesn't have much purpose in the actual function of the action.
Thanks very much for that - yeah, it's a bit mysterious trying to see the effect of the bridle. The jack was getting caught on a few of the most-played notes on my piano, so soft notes slowly released would not let the jack reset, and those notes would then 'miss' the next time. So I was trying to make sense of what aspects of the action left the jacks a little bit loaded and sticky. My piano tech suggested messing with the hammer let off and the backcheck, and perhaps the bridle tension. Adjusting the backcheck seemed to resolve the problem, but I was unable to see what the bridle's effect was.
Itâs very likely that you could have a tight jack flange.
I guess we've all suffered from tight jack flanges at one time or another. Actually though (after looking up "jack flange") I don't think that's the issue. I had messed with the flange (which I thought of as a hinge) and went so far as to change the whippen on one of the keys that was sticking a bit, and that made no difference. I think to the extent there's a big problem, it's with wear on the buckskin of the hammer butts. But messing with the backcheck and the hammer rail (depressions were worn in the rail padding, so the hammers fell further back, coming to rest harder on the jacks) seems to have kept things playable. It's an old, indifferent-quality spinnet, so doesn't make a lot of sense to get a professional involved, or to start in on major renovations.
So this explains why metal hammers would take a lot of work to move.
Amazing mechanical engineering - thanks for the excellent demo and explanation.
So I have a problem with a "bouncy hammer":
czcams.com/video/7XP1CfEjCq0/video.html
What do I need to adjust?
What would be wrong if your keys work, but don't return as fast as they should? My piano is from between 1909 and 1911.
The most likely cause of this problem is that the pin that holds the hammer butt to the hammer butt flange is too tight. Usually this means that the part needs to be reamed and repinned.
why didn't it make any sound when you pressed the key?
The action model that I use in this video is just for demonstrating how
the different parts work and doesn't actually make any sounds since it
doesn't have a regular string and all of the other components that make
the sound of the piano.
and remember, better call saul!
this isn't what my upright action look like at all.
These videos are good... But I can't watch them. You have to.... HAVE to stop clicking your tongue before you start talking. It kills me. It's like when people eat with their mouth open or super loud. I literally can't deal with it. Might just be me, probably not. Other than that the videos are great. You are really informative but sadly I can not watch any more. I don't mean to offend. I don't ever comment but I had to say it.