Upright Regulation
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2020
- Step-by-step how to regulate an upright piano action.
1. Hammer To String Alignment
2. Key Height & Level - 64-65mm/12mm
3. Dip - 10mm/black key match capstan rise
4. Hammer Distance - 42-46mm
5. Letoff - 2mm
6. Backcheck - 16mm
7. Aftertouch - jack free of hammer butt
8. Dampers - 1/3-1/2 of hammer movement
9. Pedals - 1-3mm lost motion
10. Final Check - smooth operation - Jak na to + styl
i love the opening with combat action music followed by calm guitar music
Haha thanks! I tried finding uses for music I’ve written over the years lol.
The closest piano tuner from my piano is further than 600 km, and need two helokopter flights, and a plane to arrive. Thank you again for your work. It helps to understand better.
Wow. How’d you even get a piano there?!
with a big boat, and many people helped.@@MrPianoTech
Where on earth do you live?
@MrPianoTech probably also helicopters or planes
You deserve all the love. This is the kind of instruction that will be worth its weight in gold if, godforbid, piano techs ever start becoming even rarer.
Thank you for your kind words, much appreciated!
always wondered how this worked ....facinating watch...thanks for posting, excellent presentation.
Oh my gosh you are so underrated,
I would've easily dropped A couple grand on a course to teach me what you just taught me in a 23 minute video, you're a real one! ❤❤❤
Well that’d be better than the $300 CZcams has paid me since 2020 lol. But seriously, thank you for your kind words, means a lot!
@@MrPianoTech 😂😂🫣
thank you coach
Great tutorial thanks!
Great! Os the best of regulation explain!
Thanks!
This is the most informative video about piano regulation I've watched.
Thank you!
This is the most informative video about this, and straight forward! Good job!
Thank you!
Thank you，Very comprehensive, condensed into one video
You’re welcome!
Fantastically helpful. Thank you.
Thank you dearly for making such a well structured video! I've seen a lot of videos about the individual steps, but this was the best "overview" of the entire process and the order in which you tackle the steps. Big help! x
I appreciate that! Thank you for watching.
Awesome! Great job communicating order and techniques. Thanks!!
Thank you! Glad you found it useful.
This video is beyond excellent. Incredibly informative and organized, will definitely be helpful!
Thank you so much!
Wonderful! Thank-you!
Nice and clear explanations. Thank you for a very informative video.
You’re welcome!
This video is great to keep
Thank you
Thanks for the great overview!
You're welcome!
Very good! Thanks!
Subscribed from Greenland! Thank you
Awesome, welcome!
Muchas gracias amigo saludos desde Guayaquil Ecuador
¡"EXTREMELY" INTERESTING AND CLEAR¡" THANKS. LUIS
Glad you found it helpful!
Great opening montage and music. Someone get this man an academy award. I'll subscribe on that alone.
Thanks, I wrote that piece a few years ago…had to make something to go along with it lol.
Wow! I'm waiting for overdamper upright regulation. Nice job!
Thanks!
Thanks for this important video
Thanks for this your video!!
You're Welcome!
Wow this stuff is gold for us new piano tuners who don't plan on joining the PTG. I do tunings but would like to be able to diagnose/repair minor glitches in the piano action...especially when a customer points it out.
Thanks so much for a such an info-packed, well-edited video!!
Thank you for the kind words! Glad you've found it useful.
I do tunings and voicing very minor problem, but sometimes piano needs regulation, step1-10 very good video.
I need to buy all the tools you showed on this video.
Thanks for sharing!!!
You're Welcome!
thank you
Great share, fascinating.
Thank you!
Just recommended a Customer to you from League City Texas. Moved to Florida 4years ago. Not sure where in Florida. Name is John Campbell.
Awesome, thank you!
This is great instruction for regulating right piano! Thank you so much for sharing, it is really helpful! Could you please explain why some of white key pop up about 3mm above the others after finger quickly/suddenly released from key? where do I adjust to stop it happening? Thank you!
Hmm, you might want to check the stop rail that sits along the top of the keys but I'd also make sure you don't have a lot of lost motion. They shouldn't bounce that much but it's hard for me to say without seeing it.
For regulating uprights work from string to finger; for grands from finger to string.
It is best to not alter let-off for solving bubbling issues.
The Renner type let-off tool is better, with the flexible, gentler shaft/wire (?)
In this video the keys are not reaching the front touch felt because the jacks are held by the slap rail.
Blow: 45 mm
Set-off: 2
Checking: 12
Damper lift: 19
Key height: 19 above key slip
I find the spoon tool shown in the video impossible to use: I use the Renner spoon adjuster (straight one and curved type; both very useful):
Set one or 2 dampers per section;
Action out; tie lift rod to action standard and adjust tension until hammer moves together with damper when the lever is tweaked; adjust all other spoons to match.
Simultaneous lift must be done before.
Are you an RPT?
You’re welcome to have your own opinions but since this is the second video you’ve left a comment “correcting” things I think it’s important to note to anyone who might read your comment, as to not be led in the wrong direction, that in all of my videos, tuning, regulation, repair, I always use the specs that the Piano Technicians Guild has deemed correct and what you’ll need to use to pass the examinations to become and RPT (Registered Piano Technician). Thanks for watching!
No I'm not. My intention is not to criticize but to help. If I say that the blow distance for example should be set and the lost motion taken up before levelling the keys that is because the key is held up by the hammer being at rest. The reason I say the Renner set-off regulating tool is better is because it is flexible and will be less likely to break off the adjusting device. Don't be offended. I don't have many people to talk to about these things here in Brazil and I like practicing explanation methods to improve my teaching skills.
With "help" I mean: to share methods and ideas which I believe to be faster and/or better and therefore more efficient.
Ottimo tutorial
Thank you!
Many thanks for the most informative video. A question on lefoff. Could differences in letoff alter the volume of a note for a given touch. From what you say regarding heaviness it sounds like it can. I have a brand new piano with a treble (circa two octaves above middle C) that sounds louder for a given amount of key pressure/velocity than the lower notes (circa an octave or more below middle C), with the lefoff for the lower notes being far greater than the treble. In the worst case, lower notes can be as great as 10mm and upper notes as little as 1mm. There is a general increase in letoff as ones goes up in pitch, but there is a lot of note to note variation too. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
Letoff can affect touch. You can adjust for certain types of players, however, all letoff should be the same over the entire action. Bass hammers will be a bit tougher to play because of their size and weight compared to the others.
This is great! Thank you! I like that it’s concise. Easier to see the bigger picture and also easier to remember the individual steps. Will you be doing one for grand regulation as well?
Thanks Marianne, happy you enjoyed it! Yes, a grand regulation video is coming either the next video or the one after that.
Posted the grand video!
Thanks! Love the videos! Looking forward to the next one!
@@mariannepoon Awesome!
20:09 I am trying to deduce why my keys are not repeating. Either it is
1 the jack spring or
2 the tight whole in the key or
3 one of the three wooden flanges on which the mechanism is turning or
4 20:26 the upper spring
Great video!!!
One thing I saw is that you have not adjusted the external damper of the keys... Is the travel of the keys to be limited by the dampers?
If yes is the answer, how has to be set and when in the described procedure?
Thanks for watching! No, the dampers won't affect key travel. The front of the key will bottom-out before any action component becomes a problem.
GREAT video!!
I have a question if u don't mind, recieved a piano as a gift today but on some of the keys the hammers get stuck and won't fall down. Do u know what the solution could be?
Thanks for watching! It could be a few different things. Does the key stay down when you press it? You may need to work your way through the action to see where the problem is coming from. My video on "Sticky Keys" may be helpful.
Thank you. Very useful info! I have been able to solve all problems with my Yamaha upright's action except one. One key, G3#, produces an intermittent "twangy buzz" sound on top of the tone when struck. I don't know how to describe it any other way. It's not always there, and not at all force levels, but it is enough to be noticeable on pieces like the Moonlight Sonata. The piano was recently restrung and refinished. Could that be a problem with the new strings or the action? Thanks!
Usually when I run into this problem it is due to a bit of debris touching the string. On an upright the most common place for this to occur is at the bridge. Take off the bottom board and look at the string where it meets the bridge, behind the bass strings. You may find there’s a little bit of wood or something hanging out where the string meets the bridge. It may be hard to see but it sounds like something is touching the string whenever it vibrates hard enough to make contact with whatever it is.
Great video. Thank you! My ultimate guide for adjusting a piano i am using to lean how to be my own "technitian" 😅 I have a hofmann and czerny upright, it feels so light 😢 how should I calibrate so it fiel as heavy as possible? The damper spoon set outwards, the letoff very far from strings? Something else? I am so sad it feels that light 😢
Thank you! Hmm, I’d regulate it properly so that everything is in spec then reevaluate. If when pressing the key down it feels too light with everything regulated as it should you could add some “jiffy leads” near the back of the key, just in front of the capstan. That would require more effort to play it.
This is exactly what I wanted ! Thank you. What is the regulation for soft pedal ? How many mm the hammer about the string, when the soft pedal is full down ? It's suppose to have a GAP between *metal mecanic frame* and the *hamme slept/nap bar* ?
Thanks for watching! Yes, it should move over just enough so that with a three-string unison the hammer only hits two of the strings. On the two-string unison the hammer should only hit one. And on a single bass string should just be catching the edge of the larger strings.
@@MrPianoTech Thanks but, I ask for Upright Piano (sorry I don't say it in my last post because this video talk about upright piano).
The Soft Pedal push the Hammer Rail, so the hammer are more close to the string. What is the best distance between hammer and the string when the soft pedal is full down (on upright).
The hammer rail touch the metal frame of the mechanics (with little felt)when soft pedal don't use. When the soft pedal use, did the hammer rail have to touch the other side of the mechanic metal frame (look like a ''D'' with the hamme rail in this ''D'').
*Sorry if it's not clear, my english is not really good.
@@GabLapoliceGuitariste No problem at all, sorry for my late response. Once the hammer rest rail is set for the proper hammer to string distance you'll want to take up the lost motion with the capstan under the whippens. Yes, the left pedal should then swing the hammers forward but I need to look up what the tolerances are. Off hand I'd say it's probably around and inch or so, maybe a bit more, but it should be enough to notice a difference in tone but not so much as to not let the key play properly. But I'll check the details for you.
@@MrPianoTech thank's
Thanks. I got a bit lost on Back Checks - couldn't work out what you were measuring with the gauge and why.
Thanks for watching! So what you want to measure is the distance from the front of the hammer to the string when the backcheck grabs the hammer butt. This is your backcheck distance.
@@MrPianoTech Thanks so much for that.
I just got a free piano from a friend and I was not suprised that it needs a lot of work. It seems like many if not all the keys play as if they're "on" or "off" theres no way to play them softly at all. Im just a pianist and not a tech but I i thought it'd be fun to learn to restore the piano. Does that sound like a regulator/actuon problem to you?
Most likely, and probably mostly coming from the letoff adjustment. Just go through the steps and see what you find. Let me know if you run into problems and I’ll try to help. Good luck!
Los vídeos son muy interesantes pero tendrían que tener subtitulos
❤
Very helpful. How about changing key weight?
Glad it was useful! I don't have to do that very often but next time I do I'll make a video.
@@MrPianoTech Thanks, I've bought a gorgeous burr walnut 1905 J&J Hopkinson (probably the best British make). It's in remarkably good condition, and has never been restored, but it doesn't sound too great. I've been playing it for a year to loosen it up, but am about to set about a major internal restoration. So your video was very helpful, because there was so much info condensed into one video.
Many thanks.
@@crashrr2993Glad I could help!
Where do you recommend buy the tool regulation kit?
Either Schaff or Pianotek Supply should have them. I order from both of them.
@@MrPianoTech they only sells it to Piano technician? Not to regular people? In that case, I need to order from a piano technician or a company?
@@yuithy You could probably find some regulation tools on ebay.
Question? Why do some hammers fall backward or forward loosely immediately after letoff is set?
I would check to make sure the hammer return springs are present. If it’s an Asian action, there are usually little strings that are attached to the flanges that connect to a spring embedded in the front of the hammer butt. Those often break leaving just the spring with nothing for it to grab onto. If this isn’t the case I would next check aftertouch and make sure there’s not too much or too little.
@@MrPianoTech Thank You
5:00 if you put a paper under one key, don´t you need to put same amount under each key because it elevates the key?
Not necessarily the same because they can all be off different amounts. It would be reasonable to expect that if one needs adjustment, then others, if not all, will too.
At 7:54, you can see the keystick isn't touching the front rail felt. Instead, it looks like the wippen is at its mechanical limit. That's bad, right?
It could go more. It allows for aftertouch. You can see it in step 7.
So as far as the hammer distance to the strings. The only way I can get 46mm is with the pedal depressed to push the hammers forward. That’s how far away the hammers are. What’s up with that?
There should be a spot on the frame that holds the rail that the hammer shanks rest against where you can shim that rail up to the proper distance.
Thank you I figured that out. One more question. It seemed that none of my keys had any let off, I played with the let off buttons a little and achieved nothing. I figured out that by pulling the back checks back there was let off but it’s not right to adjust the let off then push the back checks closer is it?
@@ShystySpokesOnce you adjust the rail to bring the hammers closer, then take up any of the lost motion with the capstan screw underneath the whippens, that should bring everything close enough to where you have some let off. Dip can affect it also.
Where can I buy on of those action models?
Not sure. I was given this one by another tech years ago and I've only seen other ones owned by PTG Chapters for testing prep. But maybe one will pop up on ebay or somewhere on the web.
I just saw them on Etsy
Pianoregulering