SANDMAN: REVIEW ~ Success with Failures
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- čas přidán 11. 08. 2022
- Kayla and I sit down to talk about the recent #Sandman show!
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The tonal shifts IS Sandman, it's an anthology series about stories and dreams - if anything, I feel that they could leaned into the weirdness more.
Absolutely.... Preludes and Nocturnes is gonna knock them off...lol...
I'm imagining Dream Country will be weaved in and out of future arcs.
@@HubertMotleyJr yes I was thinking that as well. I do hope they give Season of Mists an entire season
yeah its a bit tame for its source material but i can forgive that as its only flaw since i get that that is commercially a smarter choice
That's what I was thinking as they were talking. I remember reading Sandman the first time and feeling like they were so disjointed. It's not as gritty as I would like but it did feel true to the original
**spoiler warning** I loved episode 6, just the idea of 2 immortals meeting every 100 years for one of them to learn about life. I think that was an amazing depiction of an endless and how they see the world.
While I loved every episode, this one was by far my favorite episode
For any comic fans was it ever revealed what Shakespeare gave to Dream as part of their deal?
Lot I didn't like about the show. One thing I absolutely LOVED. Was that they didn't do the dumb "I've had enough, I don't want to live no more, please remove my burden" BS ... people given the chance to live, stay young will always take that option. Just like mortals there will be people who have depression etc and those are more likely to just want to stop living because life can feel like endless agony. But for the vast majority of people, even those that have depression etc. living is worth it.
When you ask people if they'd like to live forever, and stay young forever. 95% of the dolts answers "ho no, that would be terribly boring". REally? Would it? Would it be boring to have endless time to discover every single culture and country in the world, have endless time to learn languages, to get better in your hobbies, to create some art, to meet the right person/people. To make new friends. To spend with your loved ones and family (in this scenario everyone lives for ever)
People say no as a coping mechanism. We've been thought that death is unavoidable so we don't like to think about it and pretend it's inevitable. But in the near future Humans will learn how to extend their lifes to incredible amounts.
Anyway I absolutely LOVED that this guy had 3 centuries of fantastic luck, then turned into a starving beggar and suffered for an entire century, yet still wanted to live. And then pulled himself back together and made something of himself again.
I also really loved that he was so casual about slavery. Because it fits his frame of mind and the era he lives in. They don't really come back to that, but I wish they had a scene in which he showed some regret. Instead he's just a cool, nice guy at the end. With no real character building. I mean I get that he had hundreds of years to change, but still. By the time he tells morpheus that he sees him as a mate, and Morpheus gets angry, he's already a decent human and even talks about how he has changed (yeah, you also changed was what started the whole argument between the two)
@@pablolacalle6098 Yes it is! Hopefully they will do that for season 2.
@@pablolacalle6098 That was cut out from the show but we might round back to it. I was surprised when Shakespeare was shown and then nothing came from it.
The tonal shift is very very apparent but it’s not unlike the comics as they are primarily a culmination of short stories. Gaiman even said before the show came out he primarily wanted the episodes to stand on their own. I was actually surprised it had an overarching story
Yeah, it feels like Daniel didn't read Sandman or doesn't remember it well? Many of these critiques are simply inherent to the esthetic of the comics.
He says several times he didn’t read enough of the source material right before he makes a critique of the show and doesn’t realize that’s a critique of the source material itself, not the adaptation. When he talks about Dream’s personality, it’s clear he doesn’t understand Dream’s character development and how slow and rocky it is. He lacks a fundamental understanding of the comics and seems to want something different from them instead of an accurate adaptation. This wasn’t a series to phone it in on and it’s disappointing to see that happened here.
@@Jeller0450 agreed. I like Daniel a lot but his daily video cadence doesn't allow for good reviews. There's just no way a human being can absorb that much content every day and be able to review it in an educated, in-depth fashion.
@@Jeller0450 I don't think reading the source material is necessary at all to leverage the critiques here. He watched the show and is talking about the show. And to me, someone who read the comics, every one of these critiques is true. This show failed to justify itself, much of it indebted to a failure of adaption. When translating different mediums (in this case, an already visual one) fidelity is a starting point rather than a creative principle. Tonal shifts, natural to comics, frankly do not work well in other mediums. In this case, I think if they had been limited to an episode by episode basis, they could have been (in spirit) retained. But they happen within each episode, and (in an overarching sense) inconsistently so as to give an uneven impression of the show's tone. This show didn't add anything to Gaiman's work.
@@tgnyc13 I haven't read any of The Sandman novels, but I loved this show. Loved the weirdness.
Gotta disagree with your take about the two different antagonists needing more time. I just don’t see how they could expand upon John Dee’s story or Corinthians unless they add fluff/non canon stories, and they already added some small things to make the show blend more fluidly. It’s a decently faithful adaptation, and I really prefer that.
He is pretty in to that sorta thing… the wheel of time tv was 93% filler and made up content and he gave pretty much every episode a 8 outa 10
@@Theb0YWh0lived1
I didn't see him give a number to a few episodes and he gave at least two 7s and a 5.5. He said overall he felt the same about WoT as he did about Season 1 of Witcher and he gave that 6.5 so...
Having read the original graphic novel, I will not agree that it is a faithful adaptation. But it is a decent adaptation. I have a lot of issues with the casting (Jenna Coleman would have made a wonderful Death and Lucifer? Really?), also with how they have forced Corinthian into the main plot arc. Buuuuuut, I will not diss this series completely, because even though the show has flaws, I can see that the series is a labour of love (I am a huge Neil Gaiman fan, so I could be biased as well).
honestly i understand if he wanted like an episode or 2 added to each story and it seperated into 2 but i think this was fine/good for season 1
One of the biggest complaints critics have about Netflix shows is they are too long. I can only imagine what would have happened with a few more episodes.
The best definition of dream is that he’s a huge drama queen and in this season he is starting to learn how not to be
This!
Best summary ever
This exactly! In fact, to me Dream is basically Pratchet’s Death, but doing a different job (and lacking in whimsy/humor)
Dream: “Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot.”
Death: YOU NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN’T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?
I’ve been researching about him and it’s about how he realizes that things have changed while he was gone/captured, and that even he has to change too.
Note: he didn’t tell anyone that he had been captured. He expected his siblings to save him, but he didn’t want to bother them - and there’s a lot to unpack there. This is quickly skimmed over during his visit with Death. She even knocks him over the head (metaphorically) that he could have asked for help. BUT he didn’t want to lead her to the trap meant for her.
But yeah, he didn’t tell the subjects of his kingdom that he was captured, so they all think he took a vacation and didn’t care about what happened to them.
And he’s just trying to rebuild things to how they were before he was captured, but he notices that he’s changed. He has several quiet, subtle moments where other characters’ interactions with him - namely Matthew the Raven, Lucienne, Hob Gaddling, Gault, Fiddler’s Green, and the Corinthian - gradually show him that he’s wrong and that he’s capable of changing, of coming back to make reparations and be part of something instead of being so isolated and brooding.
I feel like I’m missing some characters, but yeah. He didn’t kill John Dee!!! I keep thinking that maybe they will show us a harsher version of him (from before he was trapped) later on. But yeah, I didn’t like how this review made a caricature take of his character. He is the ruler of the Dreaming, he has every right to feel like he should have command. But he also needed to see that he was being unfair and needlessly overbearing. Lucienne and Fiddler’s Green remind him that he hasn’t been around, so naturally, they had their own motivations for doing what they did in his absence (which again, they don’t know about).
There are just so many layers of meaning.
@@melifullofthoughts without spoiling things Gaiman has said before that Sandman is ultimately a story about changes and Dream coping with that. One of the thematic ways this is accomplished is by giving the audience a glimpse into what it means for these characters to be immortal beings that have existed from before the dawn of time, and yet they deal with the passage of time in a very humanlike way.
They cut the line from the show, but in the comics after Dream escapes he says something like: “Do you have any idea what it was like to be trapped in that glass prison? Time passes no more quickly for me than it does for a mortal like yourself.”
I think your read of the character is spot on!
I personally like that the show defies conventional storytelling structures - the comic is dreamlike, shifts in tone, shifts in character, and anthology of stories that bleed in and out. The show is a great reflection of this and I’d rather a show experiment and try things rather than force things into dull TV conventions.
So much this. The tonal shift is entirely consistent with dreams, which is the realm these stories are focusing on.
Every season will feel like 2 different shows. Because every arc is considerably different.
Sandman is a story about stories. So the tone shifts will be very common from arc to arc.
It's not just the tone that changed. It was like the production took a hit on their budget
I doubt there will be a season 2 it’s been a massive failure only niche fans are talking about it’s it’s failed commercially
@@user-wb9dn7zz7o Uhhhh. No. It's the most watched show on Netflix for the past 3 weeks running. There may not be a season 2 due to cost, but it's not due to lack of viewership.
@@orklad look up the figures most people dropped
Off after few episodes
@@user-wb9dn7zz7o That's very interesting. Famously, Netflix doesn't release viewing numbers, much less episode by episode numbers, so where did you get your data? I'd love to see a link.
I've never been happier with an adaptation of something I've loved. It's not 100% perfect and some of the bleakness in the comic is lost, but damn if they didn't get so much I wanted to see right, I don't even know where to start
Super agreed. Like everything Daniel says is super true, but having just reread the comics in prep, I feel like the fact that they did such a good faithful job that it took this video to notice any of the flaws.
Right. People are always going to have some kind of gripe about an adaptation. As a Sandman comic lover, I thought they did amazingly
I agree. I don't love every change, but they did such a brilliant job. The heart and soul of the books (my favourite series of all time) really shone through. They nailed the feel and the visuals, and yes, the interconnected but apart stories are part of that. I suppose they could have taken the time to blend a bit more, but as someone who knows the full story, one of the best moments is at the end when you finally see how all these pieces you didn't think mattered slot together.
Unpopular opinion: I’m not a prejudice person, but I think some of the changes like Death being black and Constantine being a lesbian felt kinda unnecessary and just completely pointless, as if mostly done for a monetary gain.
Any comments?
@@Dino23968 to be fair male Constantine is bisexual in the comics - I can see them gender flipping the character to prevent people expecting a cwverse crossover with Matt Ryan, so Its fine but I just see Jenna Coleman as being too nice a person for the mess of a character. I thought Death was excellent, the endless don't have an ethnicity - their appearance depends on whose viewer. (Hence black dream with Nada etc.)
Also 'monetary gain'... They don't get paid to represent lol
Daniel, I truly believe that knowing the entire story arc will help you out. I know it’s a tv show so the expectation is to go in knowing nothing, however…
The sandman is a story about stories. You will continue to get smaller stories which, on their surface, seem like they have little to do with the overarching story, but actually contribute to the larger theme while progressing the linear story in a very small way.
Basically the smaller stories contribute by their accumulation to the larger narrative. They are not necessarily linear.
This will happen again and again every season.
Your criticisms are valid, but this series is a bit different in the way the narrative plays itself out.
Completely agree. All the faults they found in it would be a fault of the source material (if you want to call it that). The overarching theme they're looking for here actually took the whole run of the comics.
I absolutely agree with you. I found most of their comments and criticism to stem from them not having read the source material. While reading the comics I also constantly had the feeling of "Well this is a strange narrative shift" but after you see it play out so beautifully you understand a lot more why it is done in this way.
I wonder what their comments will be on the adaptation of the "Dream Country" collection of stories, which will inevitably come in season 2. They are as stand-alone as can be but the themes and ideas presented in them are a large set-up and basis for what is to come further.
24/7 is one of my favourite episodes of any show I've watched this year. Would have loved to see more of David Thewlis who completely knocks it out of the park, ever since I saw him in Fargo I've loved his work 🔥🔥
Which is funny, that is the worst episode for me. It was completely unnecessary, woke af and nauseatingly gory. The idea that if we all speak the truth all the time we'll get gay and fuck on the spot and kill eachother is ridiculous.
This adaptation is amazing and just shows what can be accomplished when the original author is involved in production 🔥
and when the author is taken seriously and not just "involved" to tick a checkbox
I was skeptical cause Gaiman was involved in American Gods and it ended up being... meh. But this adaptation was amazing.
@@ninialintu Yeah, I feel like that had a lot to do with scope, where they wanted to extend things so much further beyond the novel and short stories whereas Sandman seems to almost be an issue to issue adaptation with confidence it can carry for several seasons as is.
@@Waylorn yeah the stories they added felt too forced. I did love good omens though
@@ninialintu The problem with American Gods was that Star decided to cut the budget considerably for the second season. Some actors did not return and led to Bryan Fuller leaving the series.
“It felt like 3 shows.” Yes, and if the show goes further, it could feel like 48 shows all at once.
There’s a reason Sandman has been talked about for almost 35 years and painted as “unfilmable.”
Also- the cereal convention and John Dee’s stories are WAY creepier on audio / comic.
SPOILER WARNING!
While I agree that the "Rose Walker" episodes can feel rushed and could have been done better, you have to realize why she, as a character, exists. She is there as pure exposition and as a segway into what kind of character Desire is. Also, while the diner episode and the John D "arc" is VASTLY toned down in comparison to how grotesque it is presented in the comics, he is not supposed to fill more in the story than he does. If you want the story season 1 was adapted from and don't feel like diving into the comics, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Audiobooks :)
That's honestly why I thought the second half of the season was the weakest. Exactly because of what you said.
I did not enjoy any of the episodes after 6. The show was good but so insanely difficult to follow or care about at times.
@@reverseworld224 3head
his arc was toned down? god only knows what it was like in the comics then
It's one of the best adaptations in recent memory. I'm shocked how much I liked it after being so skeptical
I enjoyed this series more as a bunch of self contained stories than an actual full plot that spans an entire season. It actually reminded me of shows like Doctor Who, and I miss these kinds of shows where there isn't really a big threat that every episode focus on, and it gives freedom to go wherever they want, even if some of the episodes are lower stakes than others.
I also think that a lot of the inconsistencies in the plot come from the comics themselves, since in the first volumes Neil Gaiman was still not completely sure about what he wanted for the Sandman series, even he admitted it and it shows when reading them, so I think that the show can easily be improved in further seasons. Overall, I also think that this is a success and I hope they adapt all the other volumes
If dream existed for however long, I don’t think a mere hundred years would completely change the way he acts. Sure, he had moments he was feeling empathy for humans and etc, but once he got his realm back in order he reverted back to his old self which is understandable.
If we're gonna humanize him more, he reverted to his old, safe and comfortable ways that worked. Arguably captivity enacted less change on him than seeing the change in his family. Not all the Ds...Lucienne, Gault and Gilbert.
I would argue that he had been changing gradually without even noticing/admitting at least for several hundred years even before he was held captive, but his denial and active resistance fighting it then followed-by and combined with his trauma endured during captivity caused him to regress and lash out a bit, until he was forced to realize that the world around him and grown without him and he _HAD_ to accept/embrace his own growth and flex at least just a little too or have no place left for him at all that he didn't feel alienated or that didn't feel alienated from him. (At least, that's how it seemed to me. ^-^)
Also, while he may, and always has, empathised with humans somewhat, Dream is a deeply flawed character. Nada's story is heartbreaking and his resentment, keeping her in hell, has always been the thing that I come back to whenever I think how I love his character. Nada did the right thing against everything she wanted and rots in hell for it. So, spending 100 years captive isn't going to make him a good person, as you say, it's almost overnight for him. But more importantly, humans are the ones who kept him captive.
I’ve just listened to the audiobook and the show is an amazing adaptation. The fact that different plots happen in one season actually reflects the story which is great cause it goes all over the place. And the portrait of Dream is something I loved, I took the fact that sometimes is a jerk and other not just as we are humans, he’s not. We are dealing with a different being. Overall loved it
I think Lyta accepting the weirdness of what happened to her so easily is lingering influence from the comic book version of the character. In the comics, Lyta is short for Hippolyta and she's actually Wonder Woman's daughter and would be very used to weird things happening.
Plus she's been _hanging out_ with her dead husband for quite sometime before we even get to meet her in the story. I'm sure the first time it happened she freaked out, cried, and there was whole story there. But we get to meet her after all that.
Neil Gaiman is nuanced and subtle. Dream is not the protagonist, he is more of a tour guide of this magical world and the story revolves around a rotating cast of characters. If you were expecting a kaiju fight between Dream and Lucifer like a Marvel movie, you won't get it with Neil Gaiman.
This ^ They even amped up the Lucifer fight a lot from the comics (and it was against Choronzon originally). And it shows well how Morpheus would go against someone: with imagination and ideas rather than a sword or fire balls.
This!!!!!
I was impressed at how much of the horror they kept in from the comics. Obviously, they toned it down, but I was half-expecting Netflix to scratch the collector convention entirely, and butcher the diner sequence.
They did butcher the diner sequence (it was really great anyway)
Yeah, I kept thinking "there's NO way they'll be able to do the diner sequence justice." It felt VERY uncomfortable reading it. The show does it differently, but, honestly, I don't think doing the whole thing would have been good television. It goes on for WAY too long and starts feeling pretty gratuitous in the original story. Which is FINE for a comic, where you just sort of skim the parts that you feel are dragging, but for a TV show, it would have been painful to watch 30 minutes straight of people having sex while cutting off each others faces.
Honestly, the way the stakes flip-flop around so much is one of the things I love about both the show and the comics. A lot of my favorite Sandman stories in the comics are very low-stakes, and are more focused on the effects certain events have on the psyches of the characters than on life/death. When your main character is an immortal, seemingly-unhurtable divine being, you have to ask questions like "How does Dream navigate his duties and his relationships to humans?" as opposed to "Is he going to escape Hell or not?" because the latter would get boring pretty quickly. For Dream, the stakes in the final four episodes were very high, because he's realizing how much he changed as a result of his confinement, and that affects how he deals with Rose, the Corinthian and Gault. (Also, as will become clear later, Desire's scheming had MASSIVE implications that could have proven dire for Dream if he had gone through and killed Rose.)
Very much agree with this. My favorite sandman issues are the one-shot short stories that have dream as mostly a background character.
Like Calliope, Facade, Three Septembers and a January, The Hunt, and Ramadan.
Sadly they already gave Death her “lock the universe behind me” line from facade, and I doubt we’ll ever see the other’s fully in the adaptation (maybe a reference here or there)
Calliope I expect (hopefully) will be adapted in full since it does weave into the overarching plot, but I could see the storyline being cut while the characters get refitted into the narrative.
Just like Batman, another DC mainstay, he goes from fighting Darkseid to the Joker and always makes it seem like he's in real danger.
The whole thing with introducing Rose and A Doll's House this season is part of the problem with copying the structure with near 1:1 accuracy. Personally, I like how the comics flip flop between medium length stories about Dream and then transition into stories where he's only in the periphery. And I want to see that in the show. But it also demands a lot from the viewer to keep track of and form attachments to all these new characters, and can lead to clunky exposition from characters like Rose who can end up feeling flat as a result, even in the comic to some degree. Honestly I always thought the season finale for a first season should be The Sound of Her Wings, so when I heard they were going all the way through A Doll's House, I was a bit concerned. Even though I ended up liking it, your complaints clearly illustrate the concern I had
I've loved Sandman for ages, and the adaptation was phenomenal. Very faithful and gorgeous. Loved it. Sandman is in a lot of ways a short story collection, the large cast and tonal shifts is very true to the comics. The show is actually more connected and fleshed out than the comics.
I totally get why the stakes seem low when one has no knowledge of the events that will (hopefully) come after this season. Even in the source material, the size of the bullet Dream dodges at this point is barely hinted at. If he had found no alternative to killing Rose... the punishment for an Endless who spills the blood of family is the stuff of hell and nightmares.
I thought it was an excellent adaptation. The comic itself is kind of an eclectic collection of loosely connected short stories, so many characters come and go. Sometimes the stakes are high, sometimes it's just a story. Also sometimes there are inconsistencies with Dreams character, but he is a flawed entity that requires some character growth.
One thing that I think I would appreciate in the future, especially when you give something a solid score, is more emphasis on what you actually like. If you didn’t give this a good score I’d think you really disliked it. It might be because Kayla disliked the show more than you that the review has a negative feel. Just because I hear 7 and think, “oh I’m interested!” Then the only positives I get are decent acting, decent v effects, and one great episode in a diner.
That episode was my least favorite episode, personally. Ssoo.... there's obviously a wide margin for personal preference, too. (This might be why, if it's something I think I might like or watch/read myself, I usually wait to check out reviews until after I've seen it; that way, I'm just seeing what other people thought and how it compares to what I thought or such, rather than letting what other people thought dictate or influence whether I watch/read or not in general....unless it's something I was initially not sure if I wanted to watch/read or not & just needed a little more perspective as to what it's actually about or not before deciding, _OR_ if it's something I initially actually wasn't going to watch/read at all. But that's just me! ^-^)
I think one reason why Daniel doesn't always emphasize the positives too much, is actually because he often gets a lot of flak from people who disliked things for being "too nice" or for going "too easy" on things or whatever and allegedly not being "objectively critical" enough, or something. I think people tend to look to him too much like a pinnacle/authority or such for judging things, sometimes, and not enough like just one guy giving his own thoughts/feelings/opinions/etc.[ sometimes with his friends/family] and/or doing his best to also check out and consider what other people are/aren't saying about things or other possible perspectives too.
I mean, after all, one person's positive could just as easily be another person's negative[ and vice versa]!! I just think reviews are typically best served when regarded as something to tell you what's in a thing in general, or as a way of just seeing what other people think/feel about certain things, and not so much as something to tell you or anyone else how to actually feel about whatever's in it yourself or not. (But, again, maybe that's just me.)
I do agree though, personally, I really like hearing others talk about the things they liked[ or that they think other people might like] as much as about the things they didn't[ or think others might not].! But, sometimes, I think that's a difficult balance to strike-or, maybe, it can be?.
On your point of the show feeling too cramped:
This was very faithful to the graphic novel. It does this quite often after each volume. I personally thought the pacing was good but maybe some episodes could've been longer to introduce characters
I feels a little like a wild (fever) dream, which is very fitting. Having one constant flow/tone through the whole season would not have been better for me!
When you criticized the fact that Dream learned the lesson of valuing his job in the episode with death but later goes on to treat the people of the dreamscape as subjects with his as king. I believe this is a problem that stems from us a consumers of art becoming more privy to the tropes and narrative beats usually applied by writers. We have seen show after show have that episode where the wise mentor character teaches the protagonist the lesson and a character flaw is resolved. This show is not doing this. It seems to instead imply that, yes, dream did learn to value the part he must play in the world, but he internalized it in a flawed way. Like all people he took parts of the lesson “his job is important” and combined them with negative traits he was previously shown to have. In earlier episodes with examples like his reluctance to allow Matthew to help him or his sometimes patronizing attitude towards many of the characters makes it obvious he has problems with viewing himself as the only one capable of handling his responsibilities (enforced in his eyes by the fact of people loosing themselves to his objects of power in the first few episodes.) This causes him to come back with the mindset that it is his job and his alone to fix the dreamscape. Ultimately, this helps to bridge the gap between the two stories by showing the lesson learned from the first few episodes needed to be developed and finished by the last few. In other words, instead of viewing this as two stories with different developments, it can be viewed as the arch of dream learning to lower his view of himself in comparison to others by relying on the judgment and wills of those same other people.
In episode 9 we find out that several months pass in the dreaming compared to only 2 hrs passing in the waking world, so let's just say for example 2 hours is equal to 4 months, then that would mean when Dream was held captive in the waking world for 100yrs he would have been missing from the dreaming for at least 146 thousand years. 🤔🤯
Major issues with the show IMO:
1) they make Dream entirely too sympathetic and empathetic entirely too fast - they run his character development on fast forward so later when he needs to be his old self for the story to work it's jarring (and also it has odd implications for the ending of the whole show)
2) Sandman by design is a story anthology, with wildly shifting tones and Dream himself sometimes barely appearing or not appearing at all, and they've made no effort to communicate this to viewers. Making the show 'tighter' and more of a piece makes for 'good TV' but it actively conflicts with the overall structure, and the conflict will only get worse in the coming seasons.
3) directing performances in the second half of the season (Doll's House) fell off a cliff alongside visual direction, and while some characters survived it better than others Rose Walker was hit particularly hard - to the point where I find it hard to believe that some of her takes and line readings were the best of what they shot.
Sandman is told in four issue story arcs. This season covers the first two graphic novels. Maybe it should have been released in two half seasons. People that haven't read the books don't understand the format.
Episode 6 (the sound of her wings) is phenomenal. 9,3 ratings and it earns it. if eveything could be like that...
As someone who knew next to nothing about The Sandman I absolutely adored it particularly the first 6 ish episodes probably my favourite show of this year
I hope you both appreciate reading the comics. It's one of the great stories.
There's a feeling in the comics of a "mise en abyme" of the reader-writer-storyteller relationship matching with the story beats, it's a rare piece of self-conscious writing that doesn't feel self-conscious.
It feels like mythology. Not fully coherent, yet teaches profound things about humans and how we relate to stories.
💯
This. Storytelling is such an intrinsic part of this series, which is why it's split the way it is, complete stories within a story, all the while seeding future events to build a rich tapestry. Gaiman gets how fundamental story is to the human experience. We each tell ourselves the story of our own lives and we tell ourselves stories of other people's lives, even when we only catch glimpses. Gaiman understands that.
Well... The Sandman as a comic does have tonal shifts and different genre explorations... So I don't think it was really bad. But it's interesting to see how people who hasn't read the comic sees it.
Doe that last act of the comic turn into a generic, melodramatic soap opera too..(?)
@@AdAstra78 no. But that's the thing, I don't think the show did either. It does show how a more "mundane" setting can contain a cosmic threat (such as the vortex). Now... The fact that Lyla is the daughter of wonder woman in the comic (if I'm remembering the family relationships correctly) makes it feel somewhat bigger... But that would have totally not work for the show. Actually, I do think it's a good thing adaptation wise that they didn't try to add all the DC references...
I think one thing to keep in mind (in sandman) when stories just kinda “end” is thats kind of how the comics work. It’s a lot of different isolated stories. I think with the netflix show they tried to pick out the most popular ones and find a way to tie it into a more serialized format. Honestly I think its an accomplishment on the writers part to make this into a kind of overarching story when the “storyline” is kind of just sprinkled throughout the comics. With the bulk of it being kinda standalone random stuff.
Pun definitely intended but I love the tonal shifts, not only does it keep you from getting too comfortable or bored it adds a dreamlike quality to the stories.
I've had so many dreams that start beautiful and quickly devolve into horror and vice versa so capturing that while keeping a solid narrative line between them was incredible.
Of course Sandman is my favorite comic and Gaiman is my favorite modern author or at least top three so I'm very biased.
It's not perfect but for a first season it nailed everything it needed to to keep me invested for the story and future seasons.
Kayla's energy is brighten this video so much. I feel like Daniel haven't show this much of emotion toward content he presented recently, so Kayla's presence is very refreshing for me.
Yeah, you gotta read the comic in full because you are missing some aspects of Dream's character. This adaptation was a very accurate and masterful adaptation, and the pretty much every change improved and strengthened the story rather than took from it. The thing you have to realize is that pretty much every episode is sort of a ministory of its own with some time skips here and there. To have drawn this season out into 2 would have required too much unnecessary filler that would have made it worse.
Some of my only issues were that I felt Rose's acting was weak, and I wish 24/7 dove into the human psyche more, and there were a few tiny things from the comic that were removed to make the story better, but were still cool little things that I wanted to see (like Rachel's apartment).
Knowing what is to come, the last scene (including "the cartoonish rift-character") was wonderful.
24 Hours was one of my favourite stories from the comics and this interpretation was amazing!
Also, with the 'Cereal Convention' - even in the comics - it was just a pretty set piece for finding Fiddler's Green and The Corinthian. So yeah, a bit banal compared to Hell but you could also view it as a human interpretation or mirror of Hell. And we all know that humanity trying to emulate gods always falls short.
Final point - Dream's biggest fault is pride. He didn't want to ask for help to escape, he doesn't want to be helped by his creations/friends, he is petulant and hauty and the whole of the comics is him overcoming his pride.
10/10 for me. Big fan of the comics, thought the adaptation and choices to adapt to TV were brilliant.
Of course it felt like two different seasons it was two different comic volumes - but it makes sense to have ‘season of the mists’ as season 2, which is really important for the shows success.
The whole thing about Dream is that he does start to develop more after the capture compared to before, hence why he seems to be fluctuating a bit. He is learning that he is not infallible, even if he knows some powerful entities are weaker than him. Sandman is an anthology, but it isn't all in the same order, which makes knowing those changes happened important to understanding who is was, is, and is becoming.
It covers the first two volumes of the comic so it feels like it is two separate stories because it is. The comic is almost an anthology and I do think it would've benefited from 2 more episodes to expand it out. I really liked it but prefer the comic
Man, you two did a really good job of helping me understand my dissatisfaction. The first part of the season I was like, "This is one of the greatest shows I've ever seen..." and then it all started feeling really flat and inconsistent.
These 2 story arcs are almost exactly like the comics. The Doll's House, 2nd story arc, is very grounded and much smaller in scale in the books and in the show.
I think part of your issues is just the source material. Particularly how the second arc ends, which is very similar to the Comics.
This review suffers a bit from not knowing the entire arc. But it's an honest review and it's interesting watching folks whom I tune into often be totally so disconnected from the series and not really understand it. Like how you want the show to be like everything else out there and ignore the very thing that made it the gain and its massive audience. But yeah, be sure to read the entire thing and give another review at some point in time. It'd be interesting to see what happens. (I had to fight myself not to leave some fanboy _"How dare you not understand what Sandman is about and blah blah blah!"_
Anyways, take care guys!
I think The Dolls House storyline was handled better in the comics with a more cathartic end to Rose Walker’s role as a vortex and the consequenses of that. However, The Corinthian and John Dee are more fleshed out in the show
I agree with much of what you said. I absolutely LOVED episodes 1 through 6… and then episodes 7 through 10 were super underwhelming and felt like another show.
The stakes aren’t exactly lower in the second half. The Vortex is supposed to destroy the whole universe (or even more). It’s like fighting an enemy who could control themselves vs one who can’t.
I think that was why the CGI wasn’t that great with Rose Walker. Her “powers” as the vortex were affecting the quality of the dream world. But this could easily be a fault (like, lol, that’s not subtle, artistic, or intentional enough).
Since you haven't finished reading sandman, here's something you should know: nothing happens for no reason, there's a reason why Hob was introduced for a reason, and so was Lyta (who by the way isn't pronounced as Laita since it comes from Hippolyta)
Edit: if you're interested in reading the comics i would recommend the 5 deluxe editions that contain the whole 75 issues from the main series and some of the side stories, but whatever you do stay away from the short paperbacks that contain one volume per book
I actually loved the dramic shifts in tone, story and setting as it felt to me like the season was structured like a dream.
I’ve read the comics and were a bit nervous about the adaptation, but I ended up really enjoying it (even tho I do like the comics quite a bit more).
I disliked some of the changes made, however I do understand why they chose to make those changes for it work on screen. There were definitely things that got messy, even after these changes.
My favourite episode was definitely The Sound of her Wings (ep. 6) and I so badly wanted more screen time for Death. I (among others) also feel like they handled the baby scene very well, which I know a lot of people were nervous about.
Over all it was a enjoyable experience.
I feel the casting was absolutely perfect for a lot of the characters, ESPECIALLY for Death, Lucifer, the Corinthian, and Fun-land.
Edit: And of course Professor Lupin as John Dee was absolutely PHENOMENAL!!
I've never read Sandman before and I really enjoyed the show. My only initial misgivings about the show were related to how much it jumped around, but in retrospect, I really should have expected that from a show which dives so heavily into dreams. I'm weird though and care about the plot of things more than everything else and I liked how the show handled the stories it was trying to tell
I love the comics, and feel the series did a really good job adapting them. Actually very faithful. Fwiw, it feels like two different stories cause it kinda is. This season adapted the first two arcs. I am very much looking forward to a season two if we get one.
I think you're right, All of the different tonal shifts went into different places but that's what Sandman is. You guys were looking at it from a television streaming view which means you want to X,Y, and z that's not what Sandman does. Every single time you list it off a tonal shift and then put a television show following it. That's what you were expecting. You were expecting that television show's tone. You were not taking the material at face value. Every single thing in this season happen in the comics. Almost faithfully to the adaptation. With future plotlines and story arcs that were thrown right in front of you and you completely miss them. Hell, at one point there was a whole book arc that was dangled right in front of you. But you guys wouldn't have known that. Neil Gaiman created this to have repeatable rewatches but it doesn't help internet reviewers. But now that you know about Sandman go and read it and try to read all 75 issues of it. Because certain characters come back and and you're happy that their story was explored. To be honest with you, most of the problems that I'm hearing people are having with this season are things that are at the very center of the Sandman's story arcs.
The REAL lyrics they don’t want you to know: “mr. sandman, sand me a man, make him the sandy-est man in the land”
EP 5 and 6 are some of the most interesting stories I've seen and experienced. I think that's the word, experience. This show demands your gears to turn, to attempt to see more than just what is on screen, than just what is heard. Also, Tom's voice is just perfect for Morpheus.
I adored it so much. I get the criticisms, but I'd probably give it a much higher rating
This show was amazing and every episode was very touching. Episode 6 in particular was as good as it gets for TV or movies as far as I'm concerned.
Spoilers:
The episode with Death was both beautiful and heart wrenching.
Oh it was definitely the best episode! Just as Death is the best part of the comics.
The casting for Death was PHENOMENAL and the episode made me fall in love with the character all over again
I agree that episodes 1-6 were the best, and surprisingly episode 6 was my favorite. Death was just perfect imo. Yeah it kinda fell a bit in the end, but I think they can remedy that in season two. EVERYONE is in love with Tom Sturridge as Dream now lol
One of the reasons why the comics really worked for me was actually because of the tonal shifts, the jumping back and forth between stories with wildly different stakes, the sporadic musing by various characters on philosophy and especially the role of dreams in the human experience. It's a running meta narrative that forces you to reflect on not just the story you are reading in the moment, but also on why that is the story currently being told. Who is doing the telling, is it Neil Gaiman's intention for you to draw meaning from the narrative, is it Dream's intention for the audience of his narration of the comic to draw meaning, or are you creating that meaning yourself. Because of this to me the connective tissue for the work as a whole was that it is about stories and storytelling, how stories come about, why we are drawn to stories, how we use them to tell the story of ourselves to ourselves and others, how and why stories change, how stories can and cannot intertwine, ect. ect. It's a story that begs you to over-analyse it. Because it seems likely that there is always something to be gained from further analysis.
The show didn't really give me that, not even remotely. I love the adaptation, but I can't pretend that there isn't a lot lost in translation. To be fair, it's possible that they can still get there, this was just the first season after all.
I love it when we get Kayla's opinion along with yours :)
Personally, I find the audiobook(s) are the better interpretation of the Sandman concept, even more than the comics. But, ultimately, they all stand, proudly and separately, on their own. The tonal shifts that bother Kayla and Daniel so much, are also depicted in the comics. I always interpreted them as if we'd be peaking randomly through some of the most compelling instances of Sandman's growth, though they interconnect slightly, even if not always in a transparent way.
Hey Daniel. Before I watch the video, I just want to say thank you for the amazing content! You're my favourite CZcamsr :) Keep up the great work!
I think the differences between Corinthian and Lucifer might have had to do with that Corinthian was a creation of Dream's, like his own child (which you will definitely see parallels to if the show gets picked up and lasts for a while)
FYI, Rose Walker is first introduced in the diner episode. She’s on a FaceTime. Go re-watch. 😃
Having read the graphic novels, that sounds like it is entirely consistent with them. The odd tonal shifts, and different perspectives. It is not an overarching epic, it is a series of short stories, vignettes, that give you snapshot glimpses into the existence of these beings, seen in different lights. I am put in mind of the cat-story from the series. A completely different non-human perspective, recognizing the power of dreams. You have to realize, the incarnations of immortal (endless) concepts that are these beings are strongly influenced by the viewer. Death will not look the same or behave the same to two different mortals. Nor will Dream. There are underlying themes, always, but also always overlain by subtle differences lent by the viewer's perspective. They also change with the changing perspectives of them as time passes, something Dream is having a hard time dealing with as the world has changed a lot during his captivity, so he is hit with that change all at once. The inconsistency is not an error, it is a FEATURE of the stories. That world, much like a dream, or sand, shifts around under your feet, revealing different things from different perspectives. Now I need to see it, as it sounds like a very faithful rendition of the comics/graphic novels.
I loved the vfx rift thing you spoke about. I thought it was intentionally comic-ish and stood out as unique and not fitting with the other stuff we saw because it is that different and otherworldly from anything else we saw
I haven't seen all of it but so far I have a smile on my face. I loved the death and dream story in the comic. The dinner scene is something I never wanted to go thru again but it's impossible to forget. If I can suggest, the audible sandman volumen 1 and 2 are a great listen.
Thought it was fucking awesome. Second half not as good but still awesome. Episode 5 & 6 are amazing. Such a roller coaster of emotions.
Also the “i am” battle in Hell was soo cool. Loved that so much.
It’s also hilarious watching the angries still pop up in some places online even with the author himself being the one making changes. Cracks me up.
And Neil seems very happy with it. He is very active on Twitter and it’s fun.
After seeing everyone complain about the exposition, I've realized I actually love exposition dumps. It's this thing that I know everyone's supposed to hate, but It's never actually bothered me that much. I just like learning about worlds and the delivery doesn't bother me, especially for a world as interesting as Sandman's.
Solid review. Agree it felt like 2 shows. Didn't care for episode 5 (diner) but LOVED episode 6 (immortal man).
Now I really want to see you and Kayla's review of Berserk '97!
I _do_ agree that Netflix really *really* needs to STOP TRYING TO FORCE LITERALLY *_EVERY_* FRICKING STORY INTO JUST A MERE *10* EPISODES ONLY though. 💔🙃🙃😿😭💔 It is severely hurting the story and the character development of so many different series, bringing so many of what could be truly great shows down to just /fine /good shows that could have been so much worse and yet also could have been even better!.
This is why I love this channel. Cuz even though I had a very different experience with the show I can see, understand, and respect their view.
I personally really loved this show from start to finish.
My only major complaint is that some of the changes make Dream weaker than in the comics. For example during the oldest game scene, Dream doesn't get a pep talk from Matthew. He knows exactly how to win from the beginning. If you want a truly fantastic adaptation, listen to the audio drama from Audible. It has a full cast narrated by Neil Gaiman.
Exactly, honestly Matthews extra scenes kinda ruined most scenes for me, especially with the pep talk I literally cringed and had to pause the video.
Dream just came off quite a bit more pathetic/weak in this series than the comic/audiobook.
In the Rosemary episode I was anxious all the time, waiting for the dog to bite him and explode, omg.
Btw, I love the cast, I can't think of a better Desire, they completely nailed it.
The Rosemary episode had the biggest surprise for me. Spoilers, Because in the comics she dies. John d just straight up kills her but this John d had a lot more sympathy which on first look I had problems with but the exact same time I completely understood his mentality and how he thought that truth was the enemy and he had this childlike understanding of it.
this is a great review/discussion thanks gobby lords
The tonal shift is kinda the point of the story. Its a story about dreams and stories. Dreams and stories change all the time. As another comment mentioned, it is a story about stories.
Also the second half was about the potential destruction of the world vs dream trying to get his stuff back at the start
(I'm going to be on a list now) *ALSO HEY TALKING ABOUT A SPOILERY THING SO IF YOU SKIPPED THE SECOND HALF OF THE VIDEO SKIP THIS K THANKS HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY.*
I really liked the suicides at the Cereal conference. At first I was kinda like "eh kinda ironic since dream is literally narrating how they'll finally have the weight of their actions present and their delusions of grandeur removed, but he's saying they'll have to live with it. This should be longer than a few minutes." but then I thought about it and really enjoyed that the punishment was so pressing and their realizations for the horrors they did were so impactful that many just couldn't even handle it. And it kinda did well to further emphasize these people were terrible and weak. I thought it was a nifty way to show that.
Haven’t watched in a couple months (me, not you) and the production quality has continued to improve. Great review, as always. Glad to see the production quality is catching up to the content quality! Thanks for all the good content.
GREAT REVIEW!! Loved and agreed with both yours and Kayla's takes. Truth be told, I'm not even finished the series. I kind of wanted to bail on it after the tonal shift, but hearing what you guys have to say, I'll give it a second chance and hope that season 2 is handled better.
My only particular gripe is that Morpheus doesn't look more 'alien' like the artist portrayed, like his eyes & the absolute Black which seems to radiate from him... but this is easier on the actor who is Great!
My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed the season, especially the first six episodes. The episode featuring Death and Hob was beautiful. The final four episodes were a mixed bag. I don't know if it's the actresses or the way they were directed, but I just couldn't "buy" Rose and Lyta. Rose in particular was just playing it way too wide eyed and naive, to the point where it felt unbelievable. I also really couldn't stand the dynamic with the boarding house/B&B inhabitants; it just didn't feel remotely realistic, and not just in a "comic book" kind of way. The feeling of detachment continued right through to the very end. The four episodes covering the Doll's House arc still had some really good moments (especially the Corinthian), but was definitely a let down.
Having read the comics, it is hard to agree with some of your criticism because they are the point of Sandman. Each story feels different, weirder in an other way and we're not quite sure how we got there - but that is the way dreams work. And that probably doesn't work too well for television and it is why people used to say that adapting Sandman was impossible. I was quite happy with the season we got. And knowing what comes after, I'm pretty sure some of the issues you point out (like it feeling like two different seasons) won't go away. As long as they are adapting multiple storylines each season, we will have tone and story shifts.
The comic does a good job with the characters you mentioned having trouble connecting to, who seemed like they came out of nowhere. They're all listed as people directly affected by dream's capture, who had issues with sleep/dreaming because of it during a little montage in the first few chapters. The Rose Walker arc is actually still directly connected to Dream's imprisonment,
They also show Unity falling to the sleep sickness in the first or second episode of the show
I hear you guys but I think I this show deserves a ton of credit. Episodes 4-6 are some of the best TV I have seen in a minute, it was gonna be difficult for the Doll's House stuff to hold up in comparison. Pretty incredible adaptation of tricky source material, tbh.
Hmmm....I thought that they did an excellent job of translating from the books to the small screen! It was superbly adapted. I was terrified when I heard about this coming adaptation due to the fact that Wheel of Time was so so horribly adapted. I was so so disappointed at the Eye of the World episode. I guess it really made a difference to have the author of the Sandman be so involved with the adaptation. As far as the transition (Episode 6 - the Sound of her Wings) I really wish they had devoted an entire episode for each half. Still, episode 6 was my favorite - I just loved Death! I also got misty-eyed there for many of the vignettes. I really do hope that they continue the series, but, if not, the books you should read for sure are 'Seasons of the Mist', 'Brief Lives' 'the Kindly Ones' and 'the Wake'. I'd also recommend 'Endless Nights' if you want to see a story about each sibling. My two coppers! Love your videos!
I was surprised by how many DC comics references there were. I never thought we would see Dr Destiny in a Sandman show before a Justice league movie. Still Lupin was great in it
I wonder if the anthology story approach would've perhaps worked better as a 1 episode per week series or maybe the Stranger Things 4 approach of releasing "part 2" of the season a month or so after. I think releasing the whole season at once very much unnecessarily spotlights the tonal shifts.
I thought the special guest at the Cereal convention that couldn’t make it, the Family Man, could have possibly been Jed’s abusive foster dad.
I see a lot of people in the comments saying "but the tonal shifts are how it's supposed to be, because that's how it is in the comics"...and I think people just gotta realize that this is an adaptation for a reason, and while massive tonal shifts might work extremely well in a comic book format where there's individual arcs and stories, television doesn't work like that, and for the vast majority of people (including myself) who watched the show but haven't read the comics, it can be incredibly jarring and off-putting.
EDIT: and in my opinion the individual stories did actually work extremely well in this show - I thought the diner episode, the death episode, the Constantine episode, and the meeting every 100 years episode were all really really strong stand-alones. I just felt the entire 2nd arc with Rose and the Vortex was done super poorly, and like Daniel, left a really sour taste in my mouth in an otherwise pretty spectacular show.
I've read a majority if Sandman, and I think the depiction of Dream was nearly perfect.
I was blown away by how much I enjoyed it. I do agree there are times i wish it was better but still a wonderful first season and excited for a second season.
Two videos in one day. Thank you, Goblin Man
“It felt like there was no cohesive structure throughout…”
Kinda like a dream..
Sandman: A confusing but beautiful mess, that somehow mixed in characters you care about...and others you couldn't care less about, but are thrust upon you anyway. 6.8/10.