Making a Precision Lathe Headstock Spindle on my Monarch Metal Lathe
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2022
- Making a Precision Lathe Headstock Spindle on my Monarch Metal Lathe
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Good morning Keith from the UK, time for a cup of tea and a video 🙂
Georgia iced tea and sleeping dog. The hot south style! :-)
20:50 Your live center is ready for the scrap bin
Since the is a lathe spindle, shouldn’t this be machined, hardened and then ground?
You make it look so easy Keith.
Thanks for the explanation of how the gun drill works. Pretty clever. I have wondered about that for years.
Me too!
Drill your hole, ream for morse taper, then mount a dead center in morse taper hole and finish between centers to assure concentricity. Learned this years ago during apprenticeship after deviating on first attempt.
Now, that's a really good trick to remember - thanks.
You can take it further and stick a MT blank in there and use that to mount on a dead centre...
That way you eliminate any runout in the MT...
🇬🇧😐
Likely why a run out test was not shown!
Yep - the morse taper is THE most important feature after the bearing races, and yet Keith didn't make them concentric. Makes the rest of the work pointless.
Genuine question , will u then need to mount a point to a point? Mt end of work piece will have a pointed center sticking out?
I like the idea of machining from a shoulder by reversing the lathe, turning the tooling upside down and machining from left to right to keep the blood pressure down. Unfortunately my 6" Atlas has a right hand threaded spindle. That looks like an Atlas 6"lather spindle. Out of curiosity I just got off the phone with Clausing. The lady in the Parts department was extremely helpful. She knew nothing about this lathe. I gave her what information I had (Atlas/Craftman M6-31 spindle) and after much searcing and some communicating, she found a digitial copy of the parts manual and they still have the spindle in stock. She is emailing me a quote and the pdf file of the parts manual which I think is one of those on the Vintage Machinery website. If different, I will forward it to Keith for him to decide if he wants to have it posted. Today price for the spindle is $197.78. High? I just ordered 3" U bend exhaust tube for my car project. It is different than the one I decided on due to the price. In March the J-bend was $30.00 and today it is $50.00. I found something less expensive that will do the job and it is still over $40.00 with shipping. Oh the times we live in.
Just what I needed to see. Thank you
My first look at a gun drill. VERY interesting.
Looks like Elliot had a long day! 🐶. Hope you are all healed up.
Brings back memories of the late 1970's when I had the pleasure to stop in on Sam May at Apex Rifle in Flagstaff AZ. They were then working on the prototype barrels for the 25mm gun to be on the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I was able to watch them drill the hole in a blank on a Pratt & Whitney deep drilling machine that was about six feet long. He also had a P&W rifling machine.
Nice little project
Dave
Interesting way to ensure ID and OD concentricity. As a gunsmith I can tell you that the ID & OD are almost NEVER concentric on rifle barrels, and are often 3 to 5 thousandths off. This causes problems when gun Plummer's thread rifle muzzles on the OD instead of the ID, and really big problems when the just use a die. Bullet comes out at an angle and strikes whatever they have screwed onto the end of the barrel. It might be interesting to put a plug gauge in the bore and indicate the ID and OD to see if they're concentric. Thanks for video
In production lines, deviation from the center is a balance between production speed and quality demands. It is certainly possible to drill a 5,5 mm hole through one meter of steel, with a deviation at the end not exceeding 0,05 mm, if the will is there :) One thing that can cause deviation, is excessive feed-rate, too few or too poorly centered supports of the shaft (in the case of long drill-shafts), even if all other parameters are perfect.
It is extremely important that the pilot hole is very close to the nominal diameter, or in production, a drill bushing is used, complicated for a one off job.
Can you explain what you mean by threading the ID instead of the OD I assume you mean indicate the ID of the bore and not thread it. Just an old plumber asking a question LOL
An off-centre bore would impair precision. Precision depends greatly on the time the bullet flyes through the bore. If it exits at slightly different times, the vibrations of the barrel will throw it off at different times.
Now with a bad barrel, this would happen at different times and angels in the vibration of the barrel, hence making the rifle inaccurate. A good barrel would be very forgiving on slightly different muzzle velocitys, because it is symmetrical and has low vibrations.
@@edwardkawecki8101 I see what you mean, Edward. I misspoke and didn't say it very well. I should have said indicate instead of thread. In my opinion that the two are not concentric is not intuitive, at least it was not to me. On the other hand, I have had people ask me "why should I pay you $100 to thread a muzzle when I can just buy the right die to use in my pipe threader" hence gun plumber. For the inexperienced, that might make some sense. Thanks for the question
@@user3141592635 I agree with you Lief. It's all about barrel harmonics. But that's a little different than concentricity and more about barrel length. You can have dead on thread alignment with the bore axis and still have a lousy shooter, perhaps with barrel vibration harmonics...or maybe other things. Some barrels shoot better than others. The main thing is to get the muzzle threaded on the same axis as the bore to prevent bullet strikes on whatever you hang on the end.
Great job, I doubt my skills would have let me make it as well as yours did.
Lee
Excellent job! 👍👏👍👏👍👏
Greetings from Dresden! 😎
Hi Kieth, at a guess I would venture that spindle is for a wood working lathe possibly a Rockwell Beaver. I used to own one and had to clean up the spindle after it was reclaimed from the dump at a reform school my father in law worked at. The dimensions seem to fit my memory. Served me well for a number of years until I switched from wood to metal and bought my Myford lathe.
Thanks for the very informative bit on the gun drill. I'd never seen one let alone one used.
Regards from Canada's banana belt. 🤞🇨🇦🕊️🇺🇦🍌🇺🇲👍
that looks to be an atlas/craftsman 101 "618" metal lathe. ive owned and restored two of them. now ive got a craftsman 3990 commercial 12x36 im in the process of restoring.
it's not a beaver, the beaver has a 7/8-14 thread inboard and a 3/4-16 LH on the outboard. i had one for years, rebuilt and sold 5 or 6 more
Thanks for another educational video, nice to see the old pup in the shop.
Minute you said gun drill I was hooked! You made this spindle look so easy and saved another machine from ending up as scrap.
Beautiful!
In 1957, I started my engineering career on the board as a mechanical designer and that's when I learned how important it was to make drawing accurately. So many errors show up when your drawing is accurate. And today it is so easy to be accurate using CAD. I also learned many years ago; it's a lot less expensive to make a mistake on paper.
A big problem with drawings from those who haven’t been properly trained to do them, or who don’t understand the principles behind them, is that they give too much ( unnecessary, useless, and/or incorrect) information on dimensions. It makes it impossible to make the part correctly without interpreting it, as well as all the other parts mating it in some way.
Outstanding
Beautiful
Great project!
Very nice!
Thanks for sharing 👍
Another great job. Truly enjoyed watching a genuine craftsman at work.
Hello.
Since subscribing to your youtube channel I have found your hint’s and tips on lathe work very useful. I recently watched your video giving info about making a replacement lathe spindle very helpful as I have a very old Drummond round bed lathe that I am thinking about making a replacement spindle for it with a 1/2” inch hole bored through it and so found your video a most useful source of information. So a very big thank you.BillK
Great video Keith!
26:17...I'd have DEFINITELY cut the threads on the spindle nose BETWEEN CENTERS-!
What's even BETTER is to install the spindle in the Atlas lathe, and use the Atlas lathe ITSELF to cut the threads for the chuck-!
Job well done Keith
Enjoyed watching this one 👌
Excellent work as usual by the master.
Very nice work sir Thanks
Thanks again. Nice job.
That was really cool Keith. Thanks for sharing.
Pretty amazing to make a part so complicated looking effortless!
That was fun to watch.. I like the precision work you do!
Thank you for sharing. Very nice. Enjoyed.
Nice work Keith!
Nice work.. 🙂
Nice work!
Excellent job Keith, great video, keep'um coming..
Fascinating! Could watch this for hours.
Absolutely beautiful work. It is a thing of beauty. All from a simple shop sketch.
Nice job, Keith! 😁 Look like one of them little Atlas 6" lathe spindles. You got your order of operations down pact on that one! 👍😁👍
Nicely done.
SWEET spindle project! Hope you are feeling better!
A fun little project, and the use of some lesser used tools. Very interesting! Thanks Keith.
nice...liking that precision work when its called for!!
I thought I recognized an Atlas spindle, very nicely done, thanks!
nice project, thank you
Good video, nice project. As usual very interesting watching you plan the steps and good explanations
Nice video Keith. First time for a gun drill for me...I always learn something from your videos.
Good explanation of the gun drill thanks for sharing
Looks like a lathe spindle,,,,,a FACTORY lathe spindle,,,,and you did it without a grinder!
Good job as usual, Keith.
Nice job. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
Nice job, would have been nice to see the fit of a number two taper in that new part. I sometimes have to do a final polish on the ID of the taper job.
well done keith,another fantastic precision job turned out! another one of your uk subsribers!
Not a precision job AT ALL. He made a massive error when you didn't cut the Morse Taper concentric with the bearing races.
I have heard of gun drills and have worked with parts that are made with them. Thanks for sharing!
As an aside, the little 7" mini-lathes have bolt-on chucks, big lathes have cam-locks or similar, and all the interesting-size lathes have screw-on chucks. Accordlingly, having some insight into making my own spindle (so I can run in reverse on the backside) is very much interesting to me.
I never have understood why anyone would make a lathe with a threaded spindle without some means of locking it so it could be reversed. For every 1000 sold probably 800 had a reversing wreck at some point
@@ellieprice363 ...I suppose that the more elaborate spindle locks are too big to install on the smaller lathes- and let's face it- threading the spindle nose is a heck of a LOT easier and less expensive!
As I see it- having a threaded spindle nose on a reversible lathe- is a LOUSY idea, ANYWAY!!!
@@daleburrell6273 The fix is easy. Put a “forward only” switch on the little beast or throw it away. No fun watching your chuck roll across the floor busting your kneecap on it’s way.
@@ellieprice363 ...YOU SUMMED IT UP PRETTY WELL-(!)
Actually there is a way. Make a drawbar that goes thru the spindle and screws into some kind of an adapter that is attached to the chuck. The trick is making the threads left handed. When the chuck tries to unscrew from the spindle it will try to tighten up on the drawbar.
Keith, Nice job. I hope he sends pictures of his lathe when it’s back together. Cheers, Will
Nice. I plan to make a new spindle someday for my little Walker/Turner wood lathe after I gain more experience and a few more tools. It will be MT 1 and have a left hand thread on the outboard end for a faceplate.
Thats a great way to give an old woodturning lathe a new life.
Unless I'm mistaken, that is the spindle from an Atlas/Craftsman 6x18 inch metal lathe. I had one. It was my first lathe. Thanks Kieth.
@@vitesseguy design is identical to a woodturning lathe spindle. I would guess the Atlas could be set up either way.
Keith, would of loved to see the Mt fit. Nice video
Great work. I would have liked to see a test fit of the taper though.
I like to start with the bores and true thw OD to that if possible as I find it easier to correct any run out that way. Lots of ways to do any job though.
I am not a machinist but I am learning from watching so many youtube videos since covid started. Two minutes into the video before you said how you would do it I was guessing the hole first then turn between centers.
Keith can you tell us what material was used and the reason for it? Thank you
Didn't Atlas supply Sears Roebuck with lathes? I remember seeing lathes in the Sears catalog along with other assorted machines,yeah,I'm no spring chicken lol.
You're no spring chicken only if you also confess to reading them in the outhouse! 😊
This is a great video I’d like to make a couple atlas 10/12 and see if there is a market
you make it look easy!! nice job. the spindle on my wood lathe could use some doctoring too! the 4 speed pulley has a small wobble and the outboard end shoulder is sort of wonky! my lathe is a henry power tools craftmaster, a little bigger than that one. i have to wonder why they didn't put a mt#2 in there, much more useful for wood turning than mt#1
Very nice job of turning.
I personally have never used a gun drll but I have sharpened a lot of them .
I was told that a gun drill holds a better size and a
straighter hole . For what reason I don't know Morse tapers are very close to 5/8" taper per foot but not exactly and each size is a little bit different to each other. I never did any ID tapers. But I ground down a few Morse tapers to the next smaller size. One I did was a number 5 to a number 4 . That was a lot work . Not only the taper cut down but the tang as well.
I have a rivett 9 inch precision lathe I'm in about the same situation that guy's in. Mine I think was made around 1902.
Turn the Morse taper in Op # 1, so all your external diameters are concentric with the taper. The customer should have supplied a precise diameter for the collar, because his chuck or faceplate indexes off the face and diameter of the collar, not the threads.
An interesting project with tools not often seen. You didn't say, but what was the material you used?
Yes, what material? The chips didn't look like 4140 or 1144 stress proof. I was kinda waiting for the toolpost grinder to come out...
I have a 6” atlas lathe model 101 and that uses a 1” x10 tpi thread for the chuck.
I know it would be difficult, but it sure would be nice if that through hole was about .010 over. Then you could work on 1/2 inch stock.
Looks to be a spindle for a wood lathe made by atlas for craftsman,those lathes did have a option for a metalworking cross slide to be added to the ways. I have the exact lathe:)
I do believe the threads on the rear of the shaft are reverse threads tho. It’s been many years since I’ve has my headstock apart but I think there is a key way for the pulley. Anyhow… those old machines was built fairly well but the oilite bearings was a weak link.
I've had terrible experience with the taper reamers. I used an import reamer to clean up my tailstock, just to smooth it up because sometimes a drill gets loose in there an starts turning, and I must have oblonged the tailstock because ever since I did that, I could never get anything to stay put.
I eventually bought a used tailstock to fix the problem, after ruining mine.
Any time you turn a taper, make sure you can get a tool to seat in there because a taper is very finicky! If it's just a hair wrong your tool will never seat.
Very nice work Keith, thanks for sharing. Getting ready to cut a new spindle for my woodworking delta 1460 lathe. What type of steel did you make this out of? should it be hardened steel for a spindle, or is annealed cold rolled tough enough?
Will a gauge rod or drill bit slide all the way through or does it get stuck? You might consider watching some of Joe Pi's videos. Should start with a spot drill not a center drill. Move to a stub drill and then a reamer. This will provide a straight hole that will guide the gun drill down the center. You should also be using a dead center not a live center.
Oh - didn't see thread pitch on the 1". Spec it is somewhere. Should be interesting. One thing to remember (all of us) is if we are advancing at 6mm or 6 mil / rev be sure the round tip is greater than 6 what measure otherwise you will thread your way down the work. Leaving uncut spiral.
1x8 sounds like an early Atlas 6" lathe. If you fellas ever need more machine work to do my benchmaster could use a new spindle.
Looks like an Atlas 618.
Another wonderful project and explanation on order of operations. Out of curiosity, would it have been better to do the taper second after the gun drilling in order to ensure concentricity ? I'm sure it worked out fine but I was just wondering about this step Thanks Keith !
That would be my order of operating. Gun drill and ream taper and use the taper in a centre for concentricity. One thou out on what will eventually fit in the morse taper would drive me nuts, correction more nuts than usual.
It looks like, at some point in the past, a lathe tool has had an argument with that live centre. 😊
Hi Keith, maybe our tool will be helpful to you in restoring threads? Dinged, or damaged, any thread pitch, inner and outer our tool can do it! Let me know if you interested about it :)
thread files, I use them after cutting bolts all the time
Rotary Thread, send Keith one, I’m sure he’ll try it out and give you a shout out. Try some of the other machinists also, some of them should be interested.
Keith, I am curious why you seem to always use what many would consider a profiling cutter for general turning?
I see a little run out in the live center at 20.33, looks like at least a few thou'. I would be interested to know if there is any eccentricity now between the bore and the OD at the chuck end of the part.
Nice bit of turning Keith.
I assume that the dog in the background has fumphed out because of the temperature in your shop.
Take care and see you again.
I don't think you mentioned, I am curious on what steel you used for something like that
None of my lathe dogs have a lock nut on the set screw as yours does,probably a good security measure.Thanks for the video🤗😎🤗😎
How are you doing your thread where the tool is removed and stops at the end of the thread? Is that something you set up in the carriage where it automatically does that when it hits a release or are you somehow doing that by hand?
Keep up the good work.
That’s how a reamer is supposed to cut ? .. mine sure takes longer. That cut fast !
That has to be an Atlas 618 spindle. It looks exactly like mine, threads and all.
Nice job Keith, but as a peace loving person , I could never use a gun drill. But in reality, I'm just too tight to buy one.
HI Keith are you still working on the Jimmy Diresta band saw great job anyway thanks
One more video I learned from as a non-machinist. One question came to mind-I know that when going for the best precision, the micrometer beats calipers. But where does the DRO come in with typical setups-is there an order of method use for precision? What about dial meters? Maybe you could give us amateurs a crash course in practical metrology (if it fits into a project). Thanks for all your videos!
The micrometer beats the calipers because you can 'feel' the measurements with a micrometer. You can feel probably down to the 10th of a thou with a micrometer. I have found the DRO ok if it has high resolution, but I would always use a micrometer for measurements in precision parts. Other factors should also be considered like heat. E.g. If a part gets hot when turning down the OD, you will find that the OD will be smaller when the part cools. So that should be considered when turning parts for a press fit, for example. The final cuts should be done when the part has cooled down to room temperature.
Hi Keith do you know what steel he gave you or are using great job . JM
In threading to a shoulder, what visual clues are used to do the abrupt tool withdrawal ??