How Art Can Save You | Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
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▶ Why Nietzsche Hated Socrates: • Why Nietzsche Hated So...
OUR ANALYSES:
▶ Beyond Good and Evil: • NIETZSCHE Explained: B...
▶ The Antichrist: • NIETZSCHE Explained: T...
▶ Genealogy of Morals: • NIETZSCHE Explained: T...
▶ Twilight of the Idols: • NIETZSCHE Explained: T...
▶ The Will to Power: • NIETZSCHE: Will to Pow...
▶ Daybreak: • NIETZSCHE Explained: D...
▶ The Joyful Science: • NIETZSCHE Explained: T...
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Introduction
02:28 Apollo and Dionysus
08:41 The Chorus
16:27 A glimpse of horror
21:02 A spoonful of sugar
24:05 The death of tragedy
26:05 Euripides
34:14 Socrates
41:03 Richard Wagner
49:03 Beyond the Birth of Tragedy
55:02 Conclusion
The Birth of Tragedy is Nietzsche’s first major work. It immediately split public opinion in half: hated by the academic world, embraced by the artistic world.
Heavily drawing on the influence of Arthur Schopenhauer, it features the twin concepts of the Apollonian and Dionysian as creative drives in the human spirit. Apollonian art representing individuality, restraint, delineation; plastic arts, as opposed to the Dionysian; exuberant, formless, ecstasy, emotion; musical arts.
Both of these creative forces reach an equilibrium in Greek tragedy. This work deals with how Greek tragedy came to be (borne from the Greek chorus), how tragedy died (featuring also one of Nietzsche’s earliest critiques of Socrates) and how tragedy can be reborn (through the Gesamtkunstwerk of Richard Wagner.)
Although this work put Nietzsche on the map, he would later disavow much of its ideas while saving others. In particular, he would become disillusioned with Wagner’s art and turn against his former idol Schopenhauer. The metaphysics underpinning the entire work would also be discarded.
He revisioned his ideas on the nature of (Greek) pessimism and the role of art in a culture. Republished fourteen years after the original with a new foreword which includes a self-criticism, the work attained a unique place in Nietzsche’s larger body of work and philosophy.
Still, the Birth of Tragedy stands as an influential work, if not in philosophy, definitely in art history and aesthetics.
This video was a LOT of work, so please leave a like and comment (and subscribe if you haven't already...) if you want to support us! And if you can afford it, join us on Patreon where we post exclusive content. Ty for watching! -WG
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You are welcome, Alex!
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I would like you to know this video helped me so much in understanding my journey i have been called to. I clearly see the good and the bad in a much more brighter light. Your video has helped me tremendously. I look forward to watching more on dyoneses to get a better understanding on the whyn
‘Man is not an artist; he is a work of art’
Both. We are an abundance of super position.
Or he's a piece of work lol.
THE COSTLIEST MARBLE THE NOBLEST OF CLAY
We create because we are created ~ Tolkien
Birth of Tragedy has been the most difficult work of Nietzsche for me to understand so I'm glad to finally see your analysis.
Really? Not "Thus spoke Zarathustra"? How strange...
@@stanislavstoimenov1729 Zarathustra? Really I consider On the Genealogy of morals most difficult. But I read that first and Zarathustra last, probably has something to do with it.
@@stanislavstoimenov1729 "...Zarathustra"is a walk in the park compared to "Beyond Good and Evil."
I'm loving the Nietzsche content you've been putting out. I think you're the most reliable channel for fleshed out, meaningful, Nietzsche inspired videos.
Would love a DEEP dive on Dionysus!! awesome videos you guys are putting out there, please keep it up
I agree, it's such a complex and ample subject that becomes a whole "motif" that echoes throughout most of his works, it's definitely worth it
@@soniab4876 100%, I hope they do this.
Particularily because Nietzsche himself is a hyper intelligent human, and yet didn't succumb to Socratic rationality. I haven't quite understood yet how he came to that, though I belive his various illnesses might have played a part in that.
@@m1ar1vin Its a very autistic thought process, in my pov as autistic. Or maybe its just similar to my personal (and obviously inferior) way of thinking
Nice to see a good summary of Nietzsche's works, especially for those who don't have the time to read all of his books.
Please do make a deep dive video on Dionysus. I loved every second of this video, one of the best youtube videos I've seen. Keep up the great work, I love your channel.
Thank you
What a coincidence, I just started diving in to „The Birth of Tragedy“ a few days ago. Thank you so much for this video, it’s definitely helped me understand better what I’ve already read and further prepared me to continue reading! :)
"...in the augmentation of which the subjective vanishes to complete self-forgetfulness."
This is why Alan Watts hits so hard, because he's talking about the above, but in language we all enjoy hearing.
When academics use jargon to describe satori, it really makes me wonder if they've ever touched the magic, or if they're just re-wording the accounts of other people who have.
Best sustained look at Nietzsche's first book that I have encountered. Bravo!! So many riches in this video that a second (and possibly third) watch is mandatory.
I wanted to comment exactly this.
Please do a video on Dionysus.
Congratulations. This may be your finest to dates. Neitzche’s self critique could have lead him to found modern Stoicism. If life is suffering but you rejoice, you are exactly where Epictitus starts. Please continue your outstanding work. Consider stoicism and modern stoicism as a topic. Again thank you.
I may be too quick to liken them, but Dostoevsky sounds like Euripides? That being said, I'd like a thorough understanding of the Apollonian and the Dionysian. I seem to follow most of Kant's, through to Arthur's, and then Freidrich's thoughts up until that point. It would be nice to get directed to a source of enlightenment regarding the two ideas.
Can you expand on the Euripides/Dostoevsky point? An interesting comparison I’ve not thought of
Thank you for your work weltgeist. Always a delight to see you post a video on youtube.
Thank you for your hard work and labor in putting this video together on Nietzsche's Birth of Tragedy! I have so waited for this topic to be covered! I think it his one of his most underrated. The Apllonian and Dionysus principles are fasciating and are worthy of an in depth conversation. Thank you again!
Neitz: the greatest tragedy was Socrates' face
Love your channel. Been watching for a year or so now. I'm glad minds like myself still enjoy philosophy! Ill be watching keep up the great content.
Amazing piece of work!
I really love the work you are doing out there, keep going please. These videos are so very helpful. I always wanted to read Nietzsche's works, only to realize when I started reading those,they were beyond my comprehension, but after seeing your videos I feel all the more excited to pursue philosopical knowledge. Thank you and lots of love❤❤❤
Do a deep dive on Dionysus!
Excellent video, thank you. I love the idea of identifying the will/representation distinction with music and visual art. That gives me some inspiration to work towards reading that work.
Regarding Wagner's reunification of spoken word and music, that reminds me of Beethoven's 9th symphony (which you play in this video). It was the first major use of the human voice in a symphony. The final movement begins with the restatement and "rejection" of each of the previous movement's themes, almost like an attempt to investigate and reject the metaphysical ideals represented by the minor-key movements. That's followed by a lone baritone singing, ''O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!' Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen, und freudenvollere.'' ("Oh friends, not these sounds! Let us instead strike up more pleasing and more joyful ones!"). Then, there's the famous Ode to Joy in the Chorus.
I can't think of a better example of reunifying pure music with the Chorus!
Great video as always, its a pleasure watching this channel,
thanks for your effort.
Thank you for this wonderful treasure Weltgeist, your explanation is all clear and easy to digest. Waiting for your analysis on Apollonian and Dionysian.
Brilliantly done
Thanks!
Great voice. Loved the video
A video on Dionysus will be fantastic! Thank you so much for your wonderful content.
Well done, as usual...had me looking for the Thank$ button!
Much appreciated. We’ll unlock that soon
5:51 The bees gather sweet honey in good order that then spontaneously start to ferment as if by some magic force, and upon consuming the alcohol it starts to, in a way, “ferment” the psyche as well with this magic.
Thank you for a wonderful analysis of Nitzsche's work on tragedy.
Terrific video. A deep dive into Dionysus would be great
Thank you
Very inspiring! Thank you
Wonderful weaving of the different influences uniting themselves in the writing of Nietzsche. Thank you! 🙏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Definately worth a read, especially the later edition with his observations and critiques. The prosaic and aphoristic style of his later works is absent here but is still a joy to read. If I remember correctly this edition was dedicated to Voltaire.
Best video on philosophy and art that I have seen till date.
Thank you for this video, it made me realize why i didnt like this book when i was younger and that it is time to take it up again with fresh eyes and knowledge. Keep up the good work it helps me immensely.
Glad it was helpful!
So fantastic. I can't thank you enough for this.
It's a wonderful book, with hints of late adolescence both in the content, and in the style !
Great video !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Please make a video on Dyonisus. Amazing video!
Superb video ❤
Thank you. A video regarding art would be grateful!
You got it!
''Euripedes trousers, you men' a deez trousers...''
I'll get my hat.
Here I am watching the video before reading the book 😅 Thank you for the amazing video!
thank you !! these videos are helping me sooo much in my philosophy class
You’re welcome
I’m glad i found this channel.
Welcome aboard
Thank you for sharing such a brilliant and magistral account of this great book! This is genuinely excellent.
You're very welcome!
This is a great video thank you for your explaination
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the amazing work.
Thank you too!
Good day sir. Love your channel. Would you make video about François de La Rochefoucauld?
Great suggestion!
Art +music=de Dao to salvation 🎉
Bloody Brilliant representation-theory of the case. BRAVO 👏!
great video, it will help at my studies
Glad to hear that!
I love your channel. ❤
Thank you!
I’m also grateful for this. Thank you.
It appears to me that In the time since Nietzsche’s own plastic art has become increasingly Dionysian, through movements such as abstract expressionism, while music has become increasingly Apollonian, given the emphasis on clear cut lyrics that tell the listener how they should feel throughout the work, common in the modern “single” format. This change itself could be seen as a Dionysian movement, in that the older boundaries between the media have become increasingly blurred.
What about instrumental music?
I disagree. Plastic art is totally cerebral and rational, with a few exceptions, since 1900. Initially jazz was Dionysian, with Armstrong, etc., but became increasingly cerebral and conceptual. Pop music in the sixties had a strong Dionysian element, viz. The Doors and The Stones, but with the advent of electronic pop - music literally made by computers - has also become sterile and cerebral, even as it purports to be Dionysian. The Dionysian impulse remains - we see it in raves, for example - but I see no art, or almost none, rising to the challenge. Literature is moribund, and I say that as a novelist myself. Hardly any contemporary writers are worth reading. Even fewer have even a Dionysian streak in their work.
@@garrycraigpowell Why would you describe Apollonian as sterile? It has a negative connotation somehow, and its impulse is of equal aesthetic value as that of Dionysian.
@@markoslavicek You're right, that was hurried, thoughtless writing. Obviously you need both, and there is much Apollonian art that I admire, like the music of Bach or Mozart, or the architect of Palladio or Christopher Wren. What I meant was that art becomes sterile when it's purely rational, and divorced from feeling and intuition. I think that's true of much contemporary art in all fields. However, you're right that order and reason are in themselves not harmful, of course. Only if taken to excess - like the Bauhaus, for example.
@@garrycraigpowell I guess it all depends on how we define Apollonian and Dionysian. Rational/intuitive is surely a good perspective, but I also like to add form and content, visual and audible (if we discuss 'primary senses' to which those impulses aspire), and of course, spatial and temporal. Finally, I like to draw an analogy with pre-Socratic notions of Being and Becoming. Apollonian would in that case be the form, the material, that which is, whereas the Dionysian being the flux, the change, the energy. Cosmologically speaking, space and time form a unity called 'spacetime'. There cannot be Becoming without Being because if nothing material exists (the spatial), change cannot be detected. The change is only change if it changes 'something'. Equally so, if there is no temporal element, Being cannot exist because it is nullified into a singularity of a moment. And so, the temporal and the spatial - the Apollonian and the Dionysian - coexist in reality and are divided only through our senses and interpretation.
Greek theatre was a fusion of these two aspects of art because it included both the spatial/visual (masks, stage, scene, architecture) and temporal/performative (acting, singing, dancing). A feast for eyes and ears. By the same reasoning, sculpture is always an Apollonian medium and music is always a Dionysian one, but any medium can aim to express different instincts.
I like your examples of 60s pop music and electronic raves of today. They are surely Dionysian in the way we consume them (ecstatic frenzy at the concerts for example). The other example mentioned in the original comment - the abstract expressionist painting - while visual and 'unchangeable', aims to capture the frenzied movement and chaos. Basically, any art medium is able to express both impulses, bound only by limitations of the medium itself. This is where theatre has an advantage - it contains more than a single medium and is able to represent both static and dynamic forms of expression. That's why we easily categorise Mozart as an Apollonian composer even though there is nothing static about music as such.
Unless... we talk about music of La Monte Young, for example. Or even Mortan Feldman. Some of their pieces are extremely 'static', which would make them way more Apollonian than any Mozart's movement. They say architecture is frozen music, but no - frozen music is the music of La Monte Young. In a similar way, meticulously calculated integral serialist pieces like those of Stockhausen or Xenakis are as rational as it gets. Again, Apollonian by definition, but their sound result appears to be entropic and Dionysian.
This is why I like to imagine electronic music as an Apollonian art form, for it is a direct result of human rationality and artificial (not instinctive) achievement. And yet, those dance raves are Dionysian as a final product. We could apply the same to visual arts - dynamic sculptures, multimedia installations, etc. Apollonian by medium, Dionysian in expression.
In the end, I guess one should differentiate Apollonian and Dionysian when it comes to categorisation of an art genre, and Apollonian and Dionysian when it comes to a particular work of art. I don't know if this stream of thought make any sense to you, but this is how I see it: Apollonian and Dioynsian as a continuum within which we can find both clear cut categories as well as overlapping and merging impulses.
There is a tonne of value in Schopenhauer's ideas, but one idea I can never accept is that the essence of reality is suffering. Nietzsche is correct in saying that this is a terrible metaphysics
Thank you for providing such a detailed analysis on The Birth of Tragedy. I was hoping you could elaborate further on the concept of Dionysian in Nietzsche's philosophy. I am interested in gaining a deeper understanding of this aspect of his thought and any additional insights you can provide would be greatly appreciated, @WeltgeistYT
So basically Socrates was the ancient "☝️🤓" to the art
Hi! how are you? Love your videos, please, can you put references in the discretion in next videos? Thanks :p
Thank you very much. It is much appreciated!
Thank you very much from Indonesia, in my country i have Subculture nietzschean in online, your video so helpfull
Pls do a grand video about it.
The late Nietzsche would probably not be so critical of the humanisation of the Gods and the firm focus on the real world of Euripides’ plays, seeing as his main objection with them was that they didn’t oblige to Schopenhauer’s unity of the will, in the first edition of The birth of Tragedy. After he rejected Schopenhauer’s essence of the world, and started embracing this life passionately, I see no reason for the endurance of his Euripidean criticism in these 2 subjects.
Please do a deep dive on both Dinonysus and Apollo
There were some great takes on this channel but I believe this is the best video so far.
Pity Nietzsche neglected the Apollonian over years in favour of the Dionysian and thus fell into the same trap of disbalance he accused Socrates and Euripides for.
But either way, looking forward to new uploads 🍻
Thank you!
Left brain (appolonian)
Right brain (dionisian
Art isn't a past time, a hobby, or carerer; it's a relic, to a weapons system, that can't yet be built by science or academics; otherwise, an obseleted design. This book, is the internal components guideline, in Nietzsche's sequence of 2-3 2-1 1, with the 2-1, as Ecce Homo. Each has a trap; here, fantasy, is removed, in favor of industry. The family replaced by the household.
Shakespeare.. Measure for Measure.. " The miserable have no other medicine. But only hope. I have hope to live, but am prepared to die " Mathew 7.1- 7.5. Leonardo da Vinci said " The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions " Plato shared with us wisdom he learnt from Egypt, wisdom that was a death sentence in Greece, Rome ( Christianity) ..Pythagoras, Socrates and later Hypatia of Alexandria. Plato in his dialogue " The Republic " tells the allegory of " The Cave " Plato starts by telling us of prisoners being held in a sort of underground den, let us examine this den via the geometry of Bernhard Riemann and Felix Klein..Klein bottle..3rd and 4th dimensions. Plato tells us that the prisoners are bound up unable to move their heads, let us examine this bondage via the psychology of Erich Fromm.. socialisation of consciousness.. aware-unaware. Plato tells us that the prisoners mistake shadows for substance, let us examine this mistake via the philosophy of Thales and Kant.. synthetic a priori..not thing in itself. Plato tells us that one of the prisoners is released, let us examine this release via the instructions given by T.Lobsang Rampa..stilling the mind and conscious astral travel..leaving the cave/body. Plato tells us that the prisoners will reject this release, let us examine this rejection via the psychological effects of Stockholm syndrome..Plato quotes Homer " Better to be a poor man, and have a poor master, and endure anything, than to think and live after their manner " Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds. Mathew 23 13-31.
The differentiation of music from the other arts as being any more "true" is based on a false premise of thinking that our ears interpret sound waves any more correctly than our eyes interpret light, or our taste buds interpret flavor..
we don't interpret music, we experience it.
If its the language of the inner mind, we certainly can't translate that language into English.
I can say certain music is moving but I can't define where its moving me to .
If its a copy of the will, the implication is the language of the mind isn't english. Its probably very alien to us.
Silence is the music of the mind at rest
@@gerardjones7881 this all strikes me as nonsense- you could just as well say you don't interpret flavor, you just experience it.. but of course there's the secondary reaction of classifications and rules- (is it rock, opera, classical, rap, etc.)- what emotions are elicited by a specific tempo or tone is no different than different emotions elicited by specific colors- just as a fast tempo often evokes certain moods, so do certain colors-- both conscious and unconscious- sound waves are no less material or substantive than light or 'sculptures'- you might say a photograph is merely a sculpture of photons, and a song recorded on a CD is a sculpture of sound- as their coding is literally manifest physically, and then emanated physically through sound waves--
This reminds me of a line of thought in my degree were looking at called Sonocentrisism vs Logocentrisim. The superiority of sound vs written/spoken/ lanaguge. Theres arguments for both but I think to agree with @gerard point about music. theres a amazing study where random participants are given a series of animation of balls bouncing at various rhythms and speeds, and then a number or sounds to listen to, the study is to observe if there are similarities in the ways we interpate sound when asked to pair the sound and movement animation together, almost ALL participants made the same choice. So while there are discrepancies in the ways we experience pitch, studies like this show how unified our experiences of sound are, the emotional connotations major and minor keys and their equivalents in non western music theory being another sign of this universality of experience. Just a few thoughts. Imo your take is a little too dry and Gerards a bit too esoteric, my belief is that the truth would maybe lie somewhere in the middle.
@@tcrijwanachoudhury even if there's a high disproportionate percentage of people who react powerfully to music over other senses (which isn't a premise I've actually accepted, but I'll play along for now to make a separate point)- that hardly proves that sound is fundamentally more 'real' or profound or important, as an immutable, universal law- it's just an analysis on a certain group of people in a certain time, reacting to certain stimuli- we know for a fact that many if not all of our senses are dwarfed by at least one other organism In nature- a bears smell for example, or a bats hearing, or an eagles eyes.. depending on the organism, and their setting, they will have a very different experience as to what "sublime" experience is- and it's arrogant and foolish to project an apparent human affinity for music, as a universal law, or anything beyond a temporary evolutionary quirk, that most certainly has both pros and cons-
Please do a Dionysus follow up video 😢😢
The criticism of Euripedies may also be a hold over of from the influence of Schopenhauer. Schopenhauer prefers books that are light on plot and heavy on character, like Tristan Shandy, and thinks works focused on plot and action bog down the works.
Yes, we’ve done a video on Schopenhauer’s take on literature. Euripides being “less poetic” than the others was a common opinion in Nietzsche’s time though, based on his Greek
Deep dive on Dionysus please :]
Bookmark: 23:47
Deep dive on Dionysus! ..And,
Apollo.
What about symphonic poems or programmatic music, are those not representational?
What was Schopenhauers thoughts on dreams, seeing as Nietzsche's Apollonian is essentially conceived of as ideally represented through the state of dreaming?
Over emphasizing the Apollonian over the Dionysian explains Reddit feeling
muito bom
Not just best video of yours, but of videos, i have ever watched on youtube! plz dig deep into dionysian!
Thank you!
I think Schopenhauer has gotten it right in his metaphysics, yet I agree wholeheartedly with Nietzsches sentiment of affirmation. I’m wondering though, what philosophical arguments does Nietzsche have against Schopenhauers metaphysics? And how strong are his arguments?
I wonder what mr. n would have thought of rockn roll.
Who else listened to Lil Wayne no Ceilings on full blast after this 😭😭😭😭
This is why I love rap and graffiti. They thrive on the spirit of Dionysus 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Great analysis and presentation once again. Yes, a treatment of Dionysus would be good. Camille Paglia has a few things to say I know, but a revisit is needed. The forces of chaos seem way out of control. Could we not use more Apollo these days? I could be wrong. Would love to see what you would put together. Cheers!
so photography is very Apollonian
Subjective art vs objective art
Which side are you on?
Yea to life!
ff11:32
13:06
20:18
40:38 meta
45:44
51:22
Insane
Schopenhauer reads like cluster B personality disorder platonism
Sounds like Nietzsche got full of himself. No longer a philosopher but a critique instead of giving an openmind / freewill to humanity. His first release was not a rigid representation and did not formalize a normalcy and gave self accountability not governed. He gave a reflection to self accountabilty along with Kant.
Maybe the Greeks only had a primitive harp & sissy little flute.
As much as I like Neitechze (sic), he draws too much from 3 playwrights. If his conclusion were drawn from at least 8 playwrights, then I might see a pattern, but three is just too few.
Probably because those are the only major authors we have a large sample of texts that survive
Please good, sir...deeper into Dionysus!
Just add to the tragedy, that according to Hobbes, we are essentially apes, presto, we have our cripplingly disfunctional society.
isn't art inherently dyonisian and science apollonian?
please dont put moving backgrounds on text
My fifis!
Saying God is dead demonstrates to me clearly that he did not know the principal of what he was talking about. Whether this world is an illusion or not, has to be known. Time and space, as illusions, must be explained as what illusion is. He did not comprehend the "Zoroaster" concept, and he went to his German belief to think of the Uberman. Like most Germans, they think they are special, as Zionist Jews think they are special.
Metaphysicoan philosopher and fine art painter
How ridiculous Schopenhauer's theory sounds today.. but even in his time, they already knew that there's nothing 'magic' about Music..
Sound, like visual art (paintings) is nothing but waves generated by material instruments, and interacting with your senses (ears/eyes) ..
The feelings/emotions are the very predictable product of these very material stimuli interacting with your specific memories, personality, etc..
Music is certainly a human construct, like painting or sculpture or a movie is, and it completely belongs to the Apollonian realm, rather than Dionysian.
The two gods are not even comparable, Dionysus is about hedonism, and there's nothing chaotic about that, it's just irrelevant.. There is no chaos actually, in the Universe - it looks chaotic because of our ignorance- , and when Science looked closer, everything looked very Apollonian or rather, Aristotelian - structured, and following the cause and effect principle - .
I disagree. Music is equally Apollonian and Dionysian. Eros is the mediating force. Music is equally mathematical and emotional, intellectual as well as physical. Sexuality and passion are the driving forces of will that gives rise to the creativity of both the Apollonian and Dionysian impulses.