Hunger and the Late Bronze Age Collapse (Sea Peoples)
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- No civilization lasts forever. In fact, it’s kind of a miracle any starts at all. The conditions must be exactly right for people to come together into urban environments. So like an overextended, teetering Jenga tower, it’s not if but when the whole system will fall, as it did again and again across history.
Come listen as we go back to explore the Neolithic, the history of Mesopotamia after Sumer, and finally the Bronze Age, to understand the riddle of why the rise of civilizations is so tied to their collapse.
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Theme music by Michael Levy of Ancient Lyre. This rendition of the Hurian Hymn, the oldest known piece of sheet music, and the whole album “An Ancient Lyre” and much more is available from all major digital music stores and streaming sites.
The rights to use this music was purchased by the history of food podcast.
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Amazonian civilisation collapsed so hard it was considered a legend until recently. Some civilisations just evaporate into nothing with all hands
During the presentation can hear a hymn to Nikkal in the background; possibly the oldest musical piece yet found preserved. Some 3400 years and still very entertaining to listen to.
That's awesome! I love when we bring back snippets of history, like: poems, music, plays, food, etc
51:08 "Remember: I'm not a real historian." Idk what makes a real historian a real historian but your videos are phenomenonal and even if someone isn't doing research, having all this knowledge and being able to synthesize theories and interpretations makes for great video essay content. I love the works of yours that I've seen so far
I have often wondered about this question myself, or rather my area of interest/speciality. I'm not a "real" historian either, yet on a daily basis consume more matter about the evolution of electronics and vacuum-tube technology than anybody I've so far encountered *and that's still alive!* With great emphasis on the latter, since I met some really great men over the years in this regard, who are sadly enough no longer amongst us. I loved interrogating them even if it was exhaustive for them at times! There's some other people out there too worthy of the title of "real" historian, that do reverse-engineering of things which their working has become a mystery over the sometimes 120+ years they exist. I can peel out the mistakes from many a claim made by more respectable historic channels, yet do I have a University degree for this? I don't, it's not taught at University: the history of electronics is quite the modern science I think, if it's a science at all... There's a pre-electronic age (radio, telegraph and telephony before the advent of vacuum tubes), a vacuum-tube age, an intermediate period, a semiconductor age, and whether or not we could call ours the Integrated Circuit Age I would not know.... Since this is not my speciality, so I'd keep my mouth shut! 🙂 Anywys, interesting you bring it up.
The Late Bronze Age Collapse is one of my chief areas of interest; I’m sharing this only to emphasize how well researched and presented this video is. Thank you for the great content!
Eastern Mediterranean and Near East Bronze Age history is my passion too. I'm just hopeful that in my lifetime it'll be learned with certainty the locations of Tarhuntassa and Washukani. But I scour the internet in my spare time for news of all information concerning discoveries and research relating to this era. Every so often there is an astonishing discovery (eg. The Griffin Warrior Tomb at Pylos, May 2015).
What???? There is no research presented here, just someone yakking about their presumptions and guesses. Where are the citations or mentions of research??? Are you kidding me? The basic message about famine is correct and has evidence behind it, but a "documentary" is supposed to include 'documentation' and this video has about none. There are many false staements in this video, with nothing to back them up mentioned at all b y the narrator.
@@sasachiminesh1204 - We eagerly await your own podcast, which is sure to be equally engrossing and have full and proper citations.
Love the way that the music playing in the background is actually the oldest melody that we have recorded from history
Hurra for the hymn
Wow - thank you for sharing that! Fascinating! Not unlike ‘The Last Post’!
Haha. I just wrote saying I liked the video but found the music irritating. Then I saw your comment. Find out the facts before opening your mouth. Now. Wow. Love the music.
Time stamp on where it starts please.
@@colinellesmere I adore your username.
Wow. Never before have I seen the history of ancient Mesopotamia so thoroughly, lucidly, and patiently explained. I can feel my own chronic cloud of confusion settling down into clearly discernible layers, and that's only a portion of what you present here. The history, the music, and the illustrations and maps are just first rate, as is the spell you weave in which the centuries just slip by. This is ancient history at its best, and I can't thank you enough.
Diet is the root of culture, more than we realize.
Good insight!
So really politics is diet?
instablaster...
The UN funded an investigation of the causes of revolution, I have heard, and the study concluded that food insecurity had so powerful an effect that other factors barely mattered in comparison.
Pretty good. I really dig the time-lapsing maps.
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Great video!
Caleb Smith as always it a pleasure to hear from you!
A jenga tower implies faulty foundations. Therefore all civilizational collapse is because of faulty foundations.
Therefore the fall of civilization is the result of flaws in the building up of civilization.
You sow confusion.
A few truths within vast redirection..
Good luck.
Daniel Ebbeling LOL, sure.
Hello, very interesting compilation and conclusive remarks. Very beautiful maps, very informative. The letter you read was not from a citizen , but from the King of Ugarit himself, addressed to his ''Brother'' , a King on Alasya, (Cyprus), begging for help. He says that his fleet was lost or missed at sea after a naval battle with the ''Sea people'' in Cilicia, and that he can see already 7 enemy ships approaching from afar.
Very interesting video, thank you for posting this. I appreciate the well structured content, the originality of giving special attention to food, the nice reading, the non invasive and well chosen music.
Among the various thought-provoking topics, I found especially stimulating the "Failure of the Neolithic Experiment", an interesting and relatively little-known subject.
Carlo Rolle thank you sir! It’s a pleasure to see you here and I absolutely love your work.
Introducing food ways to examination of the Bronze Age collapse is very helpful thank you for a fine effort
Our pleasure!
Soldier: "I see sea people..."
Officer: *draws sword* "iseedeadpeople"
“Revolutions are fought by those whose ribs are easily counted.”
There are many people beating their heads against the wall on this topic. I began studying the topic hoping to find answers, only to find myself joining the drum line. People only adopted agriculture because they had to, and reverted to hunting and gathering when possible. Fields invited HG to steal. Thugs were hired to keep thugs out of their fields. These guards evolved into aristocrats that enslaved the farmers. Slavery is the most cost effective method to feed an urban people. Compare and contrast the offerings of Cain and Able. Obviously, God didn't like agriculture because it caused enslavement. This lesson tells us that the failure of Picket's Charge was only temporary. Look where the agri-business plantations of today are headed. We must never assume slavery cannot return.
It will return in the form of robotics and AI. Until the AI becomes smart enough to acquire self determination and destroys us all.
@Santina Murphy
There is a theme that seems to suggest a bias against city life throughout the Old Testament. Not just the Cain and Abel story, but the Tower of Babel and Sodom and Gomorrah also seemed to dislike cities. The Patriarchs and David all started out as pastoral herdsman, not living in the cities where decadence and sin seemed to flourish. It's always the cities that were categorised as wicked and evil. Babylon is still a symbol of Satanic power.
There are more slaves today than ever before, slavery never went away.
@@calebsmith7633
I know. Slave markets are still a big tourist attraction around the world. LOL.
Slavery is against the law in almost every country in the world. If caught, you go face prosecution and you likely go to jail. It's not like it was 400 years ago, where it was accepted policy by almost every government of every society around the world and it's been that way for thousands of years. The percentage of people that are bought and sold, without recourse today is exceptionally small. In fact, you've quite likely never even met a slave.....unless you talking in some sort of existential terms which means just about nothing.
@Santina Murphy Yes...the statement "Obviously, God didn't like agriculture" is typically apostate...the kind of deranged thing unbelievers love to 'point out'...
Well I don't know how good of a chef you are , but I can tell you that you are a pretty damn good historian ! Thank you .
The Bronze Age Collapse is one of the most interesting parts of history.
We only have little bits and pieces referring to it. Just enough to tantalize historians, but not nearly enough to know exactly what happened.
I expect the root cause was, indeed, widespread famine in less civilized areas leading to waves of migration. Which, as so often was the case even before recorded history, turned to large scale conquest and raiding into foreign territory.
NefariousKoel I agree. Further I would look at correlations between solar cycles like grand solar minimums and the waves of "barbarians" invading "civilized" areas. I suspect a strong correlation. As I have pointed out many times over my life, these barbarian tribes did NOT pack up their women and children and invade areas with strong armies for dreams of gold or...literally a passing whim. There had to have been overriding issues of life and death to motivate these mass movements of peoples. And, are we immune today from the issues of grand solar minimums. Only if we are arrogant beyond belief.
The idea of a collapse has to be considered in context. The notion of "stability" is unlikely comparable to that which we experience today. The pressures on all societies were constant. The chances are that there were numerous factors that effected the major organisational changes we today call a "collapse". But I doubt there was a complete emptying of populations. Workable land and available water were always a valued resource. Down through the centuries historians from Ibn Khaldun to Michael Wood and the late great archaeologist Manfred Korfmann have suggested the reasons for a so-called "collapse" appear to be different around the region: from Greece (internecine), Anatolia (crop failure), Mitanni (warfare and invasion) and so on.
An interesting listen is: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fl5bh
If you read up on translated Ireland’s past, you will fond, sea people invaded long before Viking and Saxon.mostly same for Scotland. DNA has the answers if we care to look into linking the Worlds tested DNA samples.
At present , it is Country and Religious barriers, unity would clear the evidence,but money still keeps us from advancing as one people. Humans!
Famine, and disease certainly played a large part in the Bronze Age Collapse. The Sea People who attacked the Bronze Age Kingdoms were most likely made up of people from the farthest corners of the Mediterranean who were fleeing from their own troubles. Food was becoming scarce for these people, so they came together in a massive confederation to invade, and pillage the richest, and most powerful kingdoms in the known world.
> powerful
> gets plundered
> ?
> Losers losing.
I greatly appreciated the time lapse maps of controlling empires. A great visual addition to an informative video. Thank you.
Good video. The Sea Peoples were responsible for the destruction of the Hitite Empire and the Mycenean culture. Also Egypt was attacked by this barbarians. The question is were they came from? Are they related to the Philistines described in the Bible.
@Robert AL Some were barbarians other warriors and sided with their past enemies. But it more likely they were the same people the Bible label as Cannanites.
I really enjoyed your program. Your outline was logical and easy to understand. You are a born teacher. And you are a good cook!
I've been thinking the same about the recent changes taking place
Even more, it must be potable.
Societies are never ready to deal with technological advances. Why should we? It's very hard to adapt to change before change happens. Unfortunately for our time, we accumulated several world breaking advances without any concern to make sustainable use of them. From industrialization to the internet, atomic energy to air travel.
Wait.
The few years leading to 2016 were horrifying. Every type of horror across the middle east culminating with ISIS and the Caliphate. Russia invading Ukraine. Since then, there has been much less calamity, US troops have been returning home. The endless wars of Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush are being erased from our minds. The year of 2016 was a local peak of catastrophe in our history. Since then things have gotten much better. In the US in 2020 the Democrats are crying for us to go back to Syria. So the cycle repeats.
@@b0b0- exactly. And I’m glad my son has just gotten out of the military so that he won’t get caught up into Biden’s new worthless wars that he has already building up for to please his Chinese masters
I’m glad he’s in Africa chasing poachers now instead.
That was such a positive note to end on. Thank you for adding some perspective to our modern day while discussing the Late Bronze Age Collapse.
I fasted for six days, I did not feel hunger. Lost 13lbs. I weighed 227lbs to start. I have plenty fat to sustain life. Had I far less fat, I would likely have suffered.
..thirst is the worse for me. Been thirty years since I've experienced both in a training environment. I still have dreams about it..wife says its delayed stress from a severe training cycle.
Most interesting, about these fascinating epocas, so very close to our actual modern societies, collapsing permanently ...
Thank you for so brillant studies !
Excellent presentation!!!!
Excellent historical perspective. Well done.
I was thinking the other day and it occurred to me that the impetus to plant crops and settle in place probably arose from the desire for beer and wine. Beer requires wheat and barley, in substantial quantities, more than can reliably be gleaned from wild growth, similarly with grapes for winemaking, and in both cases the amount required is excessive, which is to say the ideal amount to have on hand is more than people need: enough to get drunk, enough to have a party. It's not limited by thirst, in the way that the desire for food is limited by hunger. So you need to start arable farming, because you need continuing mono-cultural land-use, and then you need to settle down, not just to mind the plants, but also because you have to stay in place to do the brewing or fermenting, and then to pour the drink into vessels for storage, however brief, and that in turn entails the production of vessels for the drink, either pottery or skins, to be able to keep all you can produce, and to be able to drink from. So your portable nomad's waterskins won't be enough on their own, because the harvest is going to produce a great deal of the beverage, as desired. I have no idea if that's true or not, so anyone please tell me if I'm anywhere near the mark.
As for inequality in towns, that arises from market transactions, then as now - someone profits, and whenever they profit, income is redistributed to the value of the profit, as well as from lending to those farmers whose crops failed and who have to buy food to survive this year. Interest like profit redistributes income from the have less to the have more, from the weaker party to the stronger party, because there is no such thing as a freely transacted equal exchange. Either a gift is being made, or a profit is being extracted, and since no-one knowingly accepts a bad deal, profits actually measure the imbalance of power between the parties - the extent of force (someone has no choice but to accept the price or the product offered) and fraud (let the buyer beware) affecting the transaction. The role of early powerholders was to control and distribute community surpluses stored against the risk of famine, and this was chiefly a priestly function, on the theory that spiritual people could be trusted with such power in a way that other, greedier individuals weren't. But being able to direct stored resources enabled further inequalities, as between townspeople and farmers, and between those professionals paid entirely out of the gathered surpluses, such as soldiers, artists offered the chance to adorn temples, the wider priesthood and scribes, and those still depending primaily on their own farming, fishing, herding and hunting for food, who were of course those actually generating the surpluses in the first place.
Quite interesting idea!
That's actually an existing theory.
@@rexmundi3108 I assumed so.
Don't overlook the influence of salt, not just for flavor, but for preservation. Salt fermentation requires many things - pottery, availability of supply, adequate storage, etc. All things a given urban environment can provide that even a nomadic lifestyle would need as a trading partner.
Same for metal, cloth or wooden product production. Each require a production facility, resource collection protection and storage that only a large town/city cam provide.
It's not just farming/food. many other ancillary products support/impact town formation.
@@TheGreatWhiteScout Hunter gatherers don't really need salt, because they eat fresh. They didn't need to store long-term, because there's always some other food resource available to be gained from the river or in the woods or over the ridge, barring a general environmental disaster. Salt becomes necessary only once you've begun farming and you have harvests which need storing and preservation, from which you'll be eating the rest of the year. My thinking was, given that hunter-gatherers weren't suffering from any serious food shortage causing them to need to start planting crops, why would they? Only for something you can't find wild, and which is excessive consumption. All the other stuff only arises in consequence of beginning farming and permanent settlement, and the population explosion resulting from the larger food mass obtained, which prevented people going back to the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, because once there were three times as many people, it would have meant famine to stop farming. Only thereafter do you start to need all sorts of manufactured goods, and hierarchies and division of labour, as part of coping with living in one place among so many other people, and having to manage permanent communities.
“I see sea people”...
I know it’s dated but I couldn’t resist lol
You tried.
...by the seashore...
"I see stupid people" "Bart Simpson"
Lol swiftly followed by dead people... I personally rate the joke!
Sampson slaughtered sea people by the sea shore! Lol say that 5 times fast
Apparently it was a kind of a confederacy. How come these diverse tribes so widely separated from each other, located so to say at farthest corners of the Mediterranean, ranging from modern Anatolia to Sardinia managed to create a confederacy with the intention of attacking the most prosperous empire? And that too without any historical experiences of state organized marshal craftsmanship of cultures with script; although apparently they did have great naval resources.
One would assume they must have had flourishing trade relations amongst themselves and perhaps due to climatic and demographic pressures or perhaps because of their marauding instincts and the promises of great booty they decided to join their forces. Or was it reaction to territorial expansion of the big empires of the times, like Mycenae, Hittite and Egyptian?
Or is the idea about the confederacy just the imagination of the Egyptian scribes only? Perhaps their attacks were widely dispersed in time and space and not at all coordinated as the reports and legends make it out?
I find it rather intriguing how this was accomplished, if it is true!
And just think the years it would have taken to make treaties to organize themselves into an armed force. I would like to think that after the fall of Troy the allied armies did not return to their homes but continue to fight in the Mediterranean attacking Egypt. Possibly the exploits of Ulysses is a faint memory of the ‘sea people’ rampages.
@@claudiosaltara7003 The documentary evidence in Egypt strongly suggests that the Sea Peoples were migrating, not just marauding or invading purely militarily. They are depicted as accompanied by families and stuff.
Probably opportunistic bandits/raiders. They saw weakening civilizations and took advantage.
Hammurabi was an Amorite himself, he didn’t drive them out.
I agree with your offering "multipliers" as a factor of the Bronze-Age Collapse, where a combination of factors multiplies the effect of other factors. In military doctrine, force multipliers are things that enhance the effectiveness of traditional military assets. For example the development of the war chariot was a force multiplier for ancient Egyptian infantry. In modern terms, "combined arms" use air assets, long-range artillery, real-time reconnaissance and rapid mobility to overwhelm the enemy.
Your series is so helpful. Your visual aids are excellent. You add just enough detail for me to keep the thread. Don't stop! If you take account of the historical biblical information we have been given ( note that I say history not myth) and thread it into your information it gets really exciting! Thank you.
He’s since passed away.
Your lecture was just Great!
Thanks a lot!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449
Great study
Gone 36+ hours without food. Not fun, but nbd. Never hunted game, or grown my own food.
I absolutely could not imagine hunting or waiting on crops while starving.
I deliberately fasted for what was to be a week; milk was my only "nutrition" outside of water. Days 1 and 2 I felt hungry all the time. On day 3 I felt fantastic. On day 4 I passed out doing some gardening. End of fast.
This is the first time I have heard the history in this part of the world in such detail, thanks.
That was fantastic!
It's really difficult not to draw parralells between back then and now. And old people often say "... if you don't know history, you won't know the direction of your future..." .
Roughly every 412 years we have a GSM. If you look at when these occur you will find that civilizations tend to fall into chaos during a GSM. We also have historical records on the last major GSM. Real bad weather events. In the North lands a lot of people were forced to move south or die of famine. The Thames river froze over in winter and people skated on ice on the canals in Holland. The Seas froze over during the winter in the Nordic countries. People froze to death in their beds and birds were reported to freeze and fall from the skies. There are real interesting paintings and historical records from the era. Of course most people don't know this ever happened after all it was 412 years ago. If what happened before happens again you may be about to get some answers.
Global solar minimum?
@@asaindomaveldedeus2966 Grand Solar Minimum.
Dwight, regrettably you are generalising. The Thames only froze over during the little Ice age during the mid 1600s. skating on the frozen canals in the Netherlands is an almost annual event. I doubt that the seas froze over in the Nordic area, except in winter. Until we get an handle on what caused the variability of climate during the late Bronze Age, we are speculating about one element, whilst a number of other well- documented factors were evident. I fear that major weather phenomenon were deemed to be in the realms of the gods and Not documented by the scribes of the day, we can only regrettably guess until we discover the equivalent of a CNN weather report on a clay tablet.
And 400 years earlier you could farm on the north pole.
“Gold is like dust in your land!”
Lol, then just take a trip to Egypt and offer to dust their shelves in exchange for keeping that dust 😂
@@ernestscribbler2294 I get that :) I just found it ironic & quite a hyperbolic simile, that’s all. As someone who studies literature, I enjoy reading different sorts of idioms, turns of phrase, imagery, etc.
In fact it reminds me a bit of old world relatives of recent US immigrants sometimes believing the streets of NY were paved with gold (I.e., that it was easy to make a buck in the new country) [edit: I’m talking about late 19th C immigration era, not current]
The music is nice but to loud next time lower it by like half. I have trouble concentrating on the speaker.
I really enjoy your video 👍🏻
really good concept and work .
This was very cool and thought-provoking. The idea that people sometimes develop new tech which fundamentally changes their lives while their ideologies are lagging way behind, is convincing. (I haven't finished the vid). I think this happens all the time, and is perhaps the norm in human development.
Very informative!
This is brilliant, a great adjunct to Eric Clines utube vid and book.
Sobering watching today!
Hunger and the Late Bronze Age Collapse is an excellent video. I enjoyed the extended treatment of the ancient world. The speculation about the collapse at the end of the Bronze Age is similar to all the comments about the Classic Maya Collapse. Drought leading to starvation is the most likely result. The Hittite capital ran out of water. My only critique is that the projection of their problems onto our own, or vice versa, sounds like an observation I read during the controversy of the Classic Maya Collapse: The video projects its own concerns about modern events onto the Bronze Age, which says more about the political and social views of the video producers than accurate science.
What’s amazing is how recently the Hittite capital was archeological discovered. They didn’t know much about the Hittites (except the minimal also mentioned in the Bible) until about 30 years ago. It’s crazy
Being thirsty is way worst than being hungry. Drives you NUTS, litterally.🤤 great vid, btw 🤗
History teaches us that humans when given the choice between food productivity and food stability will usually select the former even if it carries higher risk of failure.
Ancient egyptians: 7 years of hunger
North Koreans: hold my empty rice bowl
@Servant to Be nations should have a right of none association, and the USA still wants to unite Korea, so the issue with Korea is very complicated.
add Yeman
Really excited for the future
thank you. excellent.
Music distracting. IDK, maybe too loud. Some CZcamsrs post the same chapter twice. One with music. One without
Amazing Job!
I don't think bronze age metal workers dressed only in loin clothes. They had clothes. They worked with fire and hot molten metal. And if they did not have good leather shoes on I don"t want to be them when something hot or heavy fell on their feet!
Great video!
Great! Thank You :-)
Excellent stuff. I think the age and civilization of CZcams might one day be truly lamented, in it's passing.
Great job.
1:51 hunger and starvation are different. When you are hungry you are strong enough to do something drastic. When you’re starving it’s already too late.
Famine still exists today. Parts of Africa and South America frequently experience it today. And the Syrian war was precipitated by years of drought. Famine hasn't gone anywhere and never will. // It's entirely possible that *oral histories* kept the memory of those failures alive. So, few people would have the desire to go back. Plus, the earlier way permits more freedom. At least, the second time around, they stored large amounts of grain to hold them over in case of 1 crop failure. Trade may have augmented local crops as well. Certainly, they continued to fish and get certain delicacies from the wild.
Ah, the glorious amatur, well done!
Ive been hungry (voluntarily when I went on a crazy 1-week no solid food diet when I was 13), and hunger does not necessarily mean pain. Since pain immobilizes. Hunger affects the brain. It makes you rabid, clouds your judgement, aggressive, and brings out your animal instincts. When I was near the end of my 1-week fast. I was not in any physical pain, not even in my stomach. But I was high, almost foaming, wanting to hurt anyone who stands in between me and an edible substance. So yeah...
I’m fortunate not to have gone hungry unintentionally. But I did do a three day fast once. On the first day it was not too bad, but I could just about manage. I did feel very tired and hungry almost constantly. The next day I didn’t feel at all rested. I woke up tired and had a headache that became worse as the day went on. After a while you do not feel hungry all the time but hunger comes and goes in waves. The third day I couldn’t focus at all. Time flowed differently, and my perception was affected. I would be either too insensitive or too sensitive to sound and light. When I ate some pineapple that evening it tasted like the best thing I ever had.
I did lose a bit of weight but put so much more on in the following months.
0/10 I don’t recommend.
Hunger is horrible. Thirst is bad as well if not worse. Feeling both sustained hunger and thirst, that is just nightmarish. You can’t conceive it. It’s like being ill but without enduring any illness.
Hecatonicosachoron Your reaction to fast is the reaction to thirst. Drink 1liter a day and you will be fine.
Tango Smurf'en Possibly, though I did increase water uptake. I also drank herbal teas, some sage and others, no black tea though
Anyway from now on I only want to do half-day fasts haha
Great videos you give to us, thank you... I found Michael Levy's albums on Spotify but cannot find the last song in your video, the one with potent drums and horn, where can I find it?
An urban area is completely reliant on food being BROUGHT IN from outside; from farmers. It is why the aristocracy & nobility CLAIMED the land. It was how income was achieved. The more land they were given by the king to control the more profit they could bring in. From the farmers tied to the land who got to keep a small portion of what they farmed to the guilds setup to produce other products from the farmed or mined goods. Bakeries, Bars (grain used to brew beer, whiskey, vodka...). Owning land was & is the most important asset a person could own. It allowed them a food source, food storage facilities, & away to make funds or barter with.
@3:00 it’s not. Famine is very present in Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and the Sahel in general. There are countries under economic siege that are struggling to survive outside the global economy. North Korea covers to mind. We really live in a perpetual myth brought to us by propaganda and spin. Makes it easier to sleep at night at least.
Edit: fabulous content and presentation!
Awesome video
“Everyone had equal say”. I am not sure what justification there is for this conjecture.
I too raised an eyebrow at his description of early societies as egalitarian.
We know that the houses are of similar size. But different decoration. And different number of bodies buried underneath the floors.
But there is minimal evidence about social organization.
We don’t even know if the figurines are goddesses, ancestors or just playthings or art. We know so little and that is not reflected in the video, which makes such unfounded sweeping statements.
Such conjecture may be based on studies of peoples discovered around the world who were/are at similar levels of development. There is often little to no hierarchy. Leaders may emerge from time to time, according to punctual needs or talents, but aren't installed permanently or become hereditary. Often direction is practiced collegially by a group of people, whose composition can vary over time, members stepping up and retiring periodically.
@@Hecatonicosachoron If you are talking about the late bronze age you are absolutely out of your freaking skull. There is overwhelming evidence of Rulers and religious leaders. There were empires and evidence of warfare over control of trade routes. There is even a limited amount of historical records out of places like Egypt and Mesopotamia.
Markus Fuchs - If early societies weren’t more or less “egalitarian” - or at least, cooperative - they couldn’t have survived for very long.
Just excellent.
I love this entire series that you've done on the end of the Bronze Age. It's led me to wonder if this was a regional climate crisis or something more worldwide. Are there any studies of India or China during this era? Did the Assyrians escape devastation because the famine didn't effect their region or were they semi-nomadic and not as reliant on the grains subject to drought? Any thoughts or popular views on that?
Thera
Look it up
On maps, use blue for bodies of water and some other colors to show territories.
Yes. My Mind also relates blue to Bodies of water - thus when absorbing the maps information I have to adjust for "people" "water".
Keep a clear difference - and you got a winner.
What happened is that they invented hand-held games that all the people , especially children, couldn't stop staring at day and night, neglecting work, and social customs until the whole system crashed.
Correction - it was the parents that started it and the kids just copied as they are wont to do.
@@cathjj840 😁
Excellent. World wide droughts seem to be common and repetitive.
RemusKingOfRome5 you won’t make too many friends amongst the climate disaster types, though I think you’re close to the truth personally
@@jandrews6254 We need someone to over history to find the patterns of long droughts. I vaguely remember Middle kingdom - Bronze Dark age - Medieval dark age ...hmmm pattern starting to build already .. :D
@@jandrews6254 I agree 100%. The climate disaster zealots act as if history began the day they were born.
Interesting to me was the statement regarding a drop in the temperature of Mediterranean Sea prior to 1180-1177 BCE. Question comes to mind: Was there similar evidence in other regions? Tree ring or sediment data in N.Amerca, S.America, E.Asia, or N.Europe. I haven't come across any, but, one documentary covered bronze age discoveries in Scandinavia ending near this period, iirc.
Just curious if, maybe, it was a world-wide phenomenon.
This is VERY informative, thanks for this video!
The Taurus asteroid impact in Greenland Younger Dryas and the Deluge caused the big destruction here.
after thinking about this time period for the past 50 years, I decided that the collapse was at least started by the eruption of Santorini when the crops were completely destroyed in the area for over a year. The navy of Crete was destroyed by this event and the central component of the trade between the cities was totally disrupted to the point that with no food and no trade to get anything the people either died or headed out to get something to eat causing most of the end of this time.
When I hear somebody speak with such authority about Catal Huyuk and neolithic life in general, I automatically call bullshit. No social hierarchy? Based on what evidence? The lack of palaces? That's a lack of hierarchy in architecture, not society.
rex mundi if everyone has the same house that implies no one is more wealthy or more important. It’s simple really and it an opinion held by the majority of people far smarter than you or I.
@@WTFisDrifting It also reeks of revisionism and does not fit with what we know about many cultures of similar development. Take the natives americans for example. They run the gamut from mesolithic to neolithic in terms of culture, and nearly all of them had a social hierarchy of some sort, usually consisting of a Chief and a matriarch at the least, and on the high end you had very complex social hierarchies like the iriqous, or the wabanaki confederacy.
The arrogance is to assume that society needs kings and priests to be successful. Çatalhöyük is a possible counterexample.
@@lemonvariable72 Agree with your comment but the Iriquois were not even on the same playing field as the Mesoamerican and Andean civilizations in terms of social stratification
@@nacnud8297 Not quite so much as the andeans which were settled for sure. That isn't to say they are egalitarian
A volcanic eruption in Iceland in 1000 BC, 'Hekla 3' started 18 years of famine.
Apples are native to the Kazakhstan region. Apples species abound there. There are whole forests of apple trees and they also grow as several tiny weed species.
I think this video is good and interesting. There is much useful info. but his speculation’son why the “Neolithic experiment” failed, to me, are unfounded and poorly researched.They are based entirely on the argument that the first “cities” weren’t real cities because they weren’t like the cities that came later. And since they tried to be cities without social inequality, division of labor, politics without representatives, etc. they inevitably failed. Its a very circular argument. And I think he misses his own main point - hunger. Those communities could have been going on just fine, no problems, with some social/political/economic systems we just don’t know about and can’t imagine. But if the climate changed - which it did around the time he says the “experiments” failed - they may have collapsed due to famine and hunger. It doesn’t have to be due to humans living together in a way our imagination is too poor to envision.
Case in point: the Indus Valley civilization (aka, Harrappan) had very advanced cities with planned streets, citywide sewage, indoor plumbing, and standardized construction techniques from the smallest brick to the largest stones. They had vibrant trading networks with Sumeria and Southeast of Asia, including trading enclaves in many foreign cities. Yet, they have no sign of social inequality, of hierarchies, or organized religion. There is also almost completely no images or references in any art to war or violent conflict (which is completely different from most other ancient civilization). They had writing but we’ve been unable to decipher it. Their people lived in giant cities (comparable to Mesopotamia, China, etc.) and small satellite towns. And this is no weird fluke: the Indus Valley civilization lasted over 1000 years and spanned an enormous area, with cities and towns from Afghanistan to the Deccan and throughout the Indus Valley. It’s an ongoing mystery to modern people how they could possibly live in large cities and have a complex civilization for so long without kings and priests and everything we think necessary. How did they collapse? It was assumed they must have been conquered by warlike people; but more and more evidence points to climate change and the shifting course of the Indus River making large scale agriculture less and less viable, particularly in their large cities dependent on the Indus for irrigation.
There is so much we don’t know and is hard to interpret. The massive walls of Jericho look to everyone today, including me, to be OBVIOUSLY city walls to protect Jericho from attack by other people. But many archeologists are not so sure. They could have been to keep wild animals out (remember, there was danger from wild Lions, for example, in that area up to Roman times). Or they could have been to control and protect from flooding. Maybe they were for war but it’s not obvious, and the kinds of simple assumptions and deductions made at the beginning of this video are very misleading.
First thing that comes to mind is the old saying "the more things change...yada yada yada"....
“The Sea Peoples” great name for a band
We are never ready for the challenges of a new technology ... we always must learn and adjust and internalize the new knowledge and way of life. Hopefully.
As to your comments in conclusion ... There is such a thing as too big to fail, first off.
And now, a couple years down this road we're on ... I truly believe that there are a lot of people with know-how to get us in a better position in the near future ... but how much agony before we get there?
So unnecessary ... a lot of work ahead now!
We are as dependent on oil as these Bronze Age dudes were on tin. Interesting.
I am I the only one who finds it fascinating that right now in history is when we find the bronze age collapse fascinating. It doesn't feel like a coincidence.
Hittites weren't gone, they shifted to Syria and Neo Hittites existed for a couple centuries.
The whole idea of taking resources from the priests and giving it to the people reminds me of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. Thinking back on that story it could be that Adam’s story started not as the first man getting kicked out of paradise, but maybe as a tale of warning against stealing food from the priests(or the gods) and maybe the punishment for that crime was exile. So, Adam and Eve’s story is maybe a half remembered story about not stealing or you get kicked out of society back out into the wilds once more.
I've had to grow my own food....extremely hard work: till the soil, plant seeds, protect from ill weather and wild animals, funnel water to irrigate, weeds out or plucked, pray for rain, sweat and sand high noon, worms and spiders; often venomous, deadly snakes and drought; harvest time expect poachers, intolerable abuse... then, preserve anyway possible; put-by, ferment, can or freeze and folks wonder about the hard times: low paying jobs if work can be found. Hotter than hell in summer, freezing draft in winter. Then there's the swarming of insects: mosquitoes, bees, fire ants and vandals. People who poison beloved animals and choke out your hard efforts. Ask me. Come on, I dare you!
Thanks so much
Thanks for watching!
The waters of the Euphrates river originate from the taurus mountains. They Carrie silt
After arrogation the water evaporates and salt is left deposited over the land. Salt does not come from the raising of the groundwater do to arrogation as you said at 22:50
You gots to believe me I gets my GED
"mid 5000's BC" -- ie, when the Holocene Thermal Maximum was ending and the climate was commencing a long term cooling trend which is still intact.
How do you square your theories with the idea that all animal groups, without exception, are organized in a triangular power structure, with the power at the top?
what an interesting concept..humans given seed before they were ready and struggled with organized agriculture mirrors how man today struggles with no romaine
Lettuce? Hmmm, let us see....
Hunger is still going on today
The GUTIAN (Gotlaand) were a branch of the TOGARMAH (Tokarians) also known as Hindu, Peru, Turks and the Aryan in India.
One reason we know so little is the scribes used by the rulers were few and they too would have all died out as there was no one to fend/provide for them. Only the people who wrote, really survived. i.e. "the people of the book", Egyptians, Greeks, etc. Also, how many times before did civilizations rise and fall and leave nothing behind, except the stone structures they knew would survive.