Do You Need 8k For Tabletop Miniatures? - Phrozen mini 8k
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- The Best 3D Printer For Wargaming Miniatures todate this 8k Beast is the best printer for wargaming miniatures i have ever used.
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i appreciate the line about high-end 2k vs low-end 4k, really makes you think about the function/purpose of your machines.
As someone with a pre-order not getting here until April this is exactly the video I've been waiting to see. I was sweating bullets throwing down money on a printer no one actually had but after this I can say I'm all in.
Those are some impressive prints, I think the best printer for someone is the one they are going to use. If I had a small print space I would print less so I went for a Saturn and the resolution is good enough for the minis I print and paint/play with as they look awesome from 2ft or so and I can bust out 9 epic scale tanks at a time with space to spare. My friend has a Phrozen mini and uses it for the minis he really wants to look good and it shows, they look amazing. It would be nice to have different printers for different things but I think a lot of people get hung up on wanting the best when good enough will do, it's all just hurdles between you and a horde of printed minis. TL;DR Go print with whatever you can get your hands on.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of 2 Minis printed on the 8k, 1 with standard Resin and 1 with the 8k Resin.
And pick the correct miniature or print test that is designed to show if and exactly where the resolution improvements are. If you compare the wrong print design you won't see a difference which proves nothing.
I agree, and it’s not always obvious from the price either.
I have the 4k mini, and I found the cheaper e-Sun resin to be better than the Phrozen brand, for detail and crispness. After calibration too.
The year is 2041. Artificial intelligence is far more intelligent and imaginative than all of humanity's minds combined. Luke is reviewing the latest artificially intelligent 3D printer. A printer that will design and print any kind of miniature you could imagine just by describing what you want into an inbuilt microphone or by showing it a drawing. Luke still hasn't gotten over his cold.
I've had my eye on that printer since it was announced. Crazy resolution but also a great company to back it up. Nice video Luke!
Im new to 3d printing. If you don’t mind could you explain why phrozen is a great company or what makes them a great company for 3d printers?
I bought one for Christmas. It prints awesome.
I hope that some more Minihammer / 10mm Kings of War army action is part of next year!
The printer looks great. I've not taken taken plunge into 3d printing... but it is getting very tempting.
I've been getting my fix of sculpts from Forest Dragon so far www.patreon.com/forestdragon/posts I'd love to see more painted here for sure!
Thanks for the video! I hope you feel better soon, Luke!
Seconded! Feel better soon, dude.
$200 shipping fee lol.. yeah I'll wait until summer 22 when this and the Anycubic DLP printer are both readily available and have honest reviews that aren't influencers given free product.
Really liked the Ultra but the lines seemed so big! I’ll wait for more info as well!
@@christianjohnson3205 Anycubic has a new DLP printer coming out later this year, and Elegoo have finally added themselves to the DLP line of printers with coming out later this year as well (unless it dropped and I missed). Phrozen on the other hand are twice as expensive as most other brands and what you are paying for is a more expensive shell, more metal and less plastic, and a fancy big touch screen for the user, which when using Lychee STILL does not display the image correctly. They also have poor customer support and several folks that I know have ordered them got them with cracked screens on arrival only to wait MONTHS to get it replaced. I still stick with Anycubic, I have several of their printers from the Mono 4K to the M3 and the like, they all work great. The next one I get will be the new DLP, which hoping it is under $600 to keep it affordable and that will be the workhorse of my line. I do agree though, wargamming minis do not need 8k print quality, 2k at most for small models, 4k for larger stuff, and 6k-8k for display and contest pieces. Otherwise you are buying into a machine that honestly is just over-priced. For starting printers, go with a smaller build 2k or 4k and the Mono 4k is great and powerful little printer that honestly has surprised me time and again with quality.
I bought my Phrozen Sonic 4k (the pro grade all aluminum dental office version, not the mini) and never looked back. It 100% outperforms my Formlabs Form3 on 1/87 and 1/48 scale models. Hands down blows it away on fine details. I actually regretted buying the Form3!!! Phrozen makes a great machine. My 8K is on the way and I'm glad to hear it's as good as I expected it to be. Thanks for the review.
I regret buying my form 2 for the price it just doesnt cut it for fine details
First thing you should always print is a resin validation matrix. I hate how these machines always tout resolution instead of DPI. DPI is what tells you whether a screen is actually higher quality for printing.
That Phrozen really goes well with your beard, very complimentary.
The 3d Printer has a 4 times resolution. because the pixel resolution is an x and y grid, if the grid is 100 by 100, then x y volume is 10000. however, when the x y grid is 50 by 50, then x y volume is 2500 25% smaller volume which is 4 times the resolution of the machine. plenty of CZcamss keeps saying it's a 2x resolution. which is not correct. I am not sure if the Manufacturer is actually posting incorrect info.
Cheers Luke ,
Nice to see your bits is clean , thanks for the image , :-) .
Luv~Luv~Luv
You sold me, I'm looking at my first resin printer and the Phrozen might just be it.
Can’t wait to try one out. I bought a mini 4k and I couldn’t get it to print consistently. Some times it would print a sculpt and have pieces of it missing and then some times just the rafts and supports. It was louder and slower than the Mars 3. My elegoo Mars 3 though it may not print as detailed, it does print everything I throw at it and it prints 25% faster.
I love that you clarify that you have a cold after the first sniff...since after that sniff I just thought "yep, that's Luke, with his runny-ass nose, always sniffing". Bro, you always sound like that.
Well done getting a video out whilst ill mate! Hats off to you! I don't have any interest in 3d printers but I just sat and watched this whole thing and enjoyed it lol
And I just got used to the quality of my Anycubic Photon Mono 2k! Great vid, even with the runny nose….will look into getting one of these next year! Thank you for sharing g this with us…..very informative and the detail out of the box is insane! Also nice to see your using methylated spirits, I’m just about to buy some after having a hard time getting IPA!
I'd not reccommend getting a runny nose next year, better to save your energy for something a bit more fun...
@@lewismcdermott3024 I dunno…..if Luke has one then it must be good. He wouldn’t just have any old runny nose. 😉
Nice comparison vid! Cheers Luke! I may take the plunge and get one!
For one awful moment I thought you were going to reveal how snot works better than resin! Nice one pal.
While the finished print does indeed look great.
Honestly, I'm not getting myself an 8K printer anytime soon. Resin printers are like the CPU or the GPU races from years ago. While the new ones are great, new products are just around the corner. So honestly, just better to sit back, relax and let the market cool down, along with the prices. (:
Stay safe and get well.
edit: What I would love to see, are innovations in the printers. Like Prusas tilting vat. That would make buying a new printer a lot more enticing. :)
I have been using the Mini 4k for a while an love it. I got on the Early Bird sale for the 8K. It was supposed to be shipping in late December, but they had some quality control issues and it will be a little later. Phrozen have been doing a good job at keeping people up to date on their Facebook group. Good to see Yorkshire review - it''s the best kind.
This makes me happy to watch; I pre-ordered mine in October and am just waiting patiently for it to arrive. Thanks for the review!
Ouch, cheapest shipping to the UK is $160.
I love that you've primed and washed the models. I think that gives a really good, true account of what the prints are like.
All too often the prints shown are just straight after washing/curing and for figures that are going to be paid Ted, that's no accurate. The wash helps to pick out the definition perfectly.
Cheers Luke, get well soon.
That's true, I'll start saving!
One problem I've found is that with the technology improving all the time is that there is always a newer, better product on the horizon.
I think I need to take the plunge and then just enjoy the printer I've bought rather than keep looking at new ones, but like cars really.
Waiting for the Anycubic Ultra, can’t wait to see the quality
Yeah, can't wait for January. Itching to do a review of it. Curious to see if the Hitry Rocket 1 will be reviewed by Uncle Jessy (supposedly they sent one to him to review).
You had me at "Wrap up warm!" xD
Some proper Yorkshire shinin' through!
Take care and good health to you. Hope you feel better. This is a nice preview of this printer and has made me curious to look into it more. Thanks
Hi Luke, I asked you about what casting resin to buy in the US a year or so ago and just watched your review of the sonic mini 8k. I bought one of these when Phrozen had a startup sale a few months ago. Mine won't arrive until April 2022. I'm happy to hear your positive review and see the difference on the video. I hope you get well soon.
Thanks for the review. I've been waffling about what new resin printer to get for months now. So on top of just being a damn fine review, this one is especially timely for me. Cheers M8, keep up the great work. Happy Holidays, and here's to 22 not being 20 or 21!
And most of all get well soon.
How did the old Tunes advert go ' A first class ticket to Dottingham please' Look forward to next years review interesting. Nice one dude.
Very informative, especially for someone who us shopping around and has no idea where to start.
Congratulations on the video.
Asap, I plan to buy this 3d printer to use for jewelry and the Elegoo Saturn 2 for hobby, which will replace my 2 Saturn (great printer)
I just upgraded from Anycubic zero to The Mono X (4K) :D I was astounded at the detail the lil zero can produce but the mono x is on another level, hard to notice the scan lines :) I got the mono x after seeing the large dragon video you did :) (got the mono x for £380 from anycubic eBay)
Cheapest I see the mono x for is 405? Think I might wait to see if the 6k versions they are releasing force it down
@@mikemcateer4685 Thats the price its become because of the 6K (as far as i know), give it a year and you will see them for £300 and the 6K at £500 (or less). I dare say there is an 8K version in the pipeline :)
Nice one Luke :) I've just ordered my first 3d printer (got a cheaper one to dip my toes in) and it's always nice to see hobbyists I trust get good results.
i got one a few months ago and buddy you're gonna love it.
It has a uv protection hood, but clearly a lot of uv light shines through the bottom of the machine and with the raised legs that light will bounce out from under it, reaching your eyes.
You can definitely see the difference there... as a long term investment if you have the extra few quid definitely worth it i'd say.
8k is quadruple the resolution of 4k because the resolution gets doubled in both x and y direction, which results 4 times the amount of pixels overall.
Worth remembering that you're printing in 3 dimensions, so the layer height will also figure into overall quality.
That isn't quite true as far as 3d printing goes. The pixel density is what you want not just the number of pixels. if you compare a 7.1 inch 4 k screen to a 10.1 inch 8 k screen you won't see any improvement in the pixel density even with the resolution increase. but if you make the 7.1 screen 8k then you will. This is why phrozens sonic 8 k mega will not have the same micron results as the 8k mini. (47-micron vs 22-micron) even though both are 8k. It is also why the 4k mini could print in higher detail then the 8k mega. so it isn't just the resolution of the screen but a combination of the two. Other things such as how parallel and how consistent the light is, and how stable the z axis is will also make a difference to the quality. When looking at a printer you have to look at the package as a whole to see how it will perform. That being said I hope mine shows up soon. I ordered mine in the early bird promotion
@@markburton5292 My comment stands. It was just a minor correction regarding screen resolution, nothing more. I didn't comment on anything about quality of print. 3D printers use 2D screens for their light, and therefore it is "quite true as far as 3D printing goes".
@@zenntrox8695 I think you missed the whole point. Going from 4 k to 8 k in resolution does not necessarily increase the printing quality by quadruple. Unless you keep the screen size the same. Yes with 8k you get more pixels but if the pixels are the same size then the quality has not changed. with this printer the resolution went up but so did the screen size, so we went from 32 uM to 22 uM in the pixel size. If it was just a resolution change, which would be your quadruple then we would be at around 16 uM per pixel. you have to look at the total information about the screen and not just the resolution to get a true idea of the change
@@markburton5292 Zenntrox said that the number of pixels quadruples (which is true), he made no comment about the quality increase. Other than that, your point on pixel size is very useful.
Good stuff to know. I've been considering upgrading my Phrozon Mini 4k. Plus hearing that you use meths for clean-up is a relief.......I thought I was just being cheap.
Now is the time to watch the secondary market for used 4k monos. Those will still print tabletop quality minis all day long.
Lovely review and you managed to hold the contents of your nose like a champ! Can't wait to see what your new army(/ies) will be! If you'd be at all interested in some indy systems like Reign in Hell (skirmish) or Turnip28 (platoon level postapoc napoleonics and ... Turnips!) they seem to be getting a lot of love in the form of STLs. Love
The first ever mini 8k review???🔥🔥🔥🔥❤️
"Let's compare it! While not seeing them next to each other zoomed in ofc!"
Good to see another video even if its a snotty mess. Am going to get a printer soon so enjoying these.
See you all wrapped up reminded me of the old adage "Oh Mum I can't go to school today, I really can't" and then his mum pipes in "But you must go Malcom, your the Headmaster so they will look up to you for making an appearance. Now here is your sandwiches and your flask of soup and get out there and show them a little cold is nothing to worry about." Merry Christmas Luke and a Guid New Year when it comes!!
I'm absolutely in love with my Anycubic Photon Mono. It's 2k and I have made some excellent minis. As I write this I am printing out some wyverns from Artisan Guild. Maybe in the future I'll look at 8k printers, but for now, I am really happy with what I have.
Mono fan here too, you do notice the layers on bigger models, but on 'minis' its not a thing
I haven't checked out 3D printing for a while, when I last did, print lines were a huge problem... but my god has it come a long way. It's starting to look really bloody good!!!
Im glad it seems so nice im looking forward to mine coming in soon.
That resin lapse effect is so cool :D
I wish my hobby budget had space for one. Guess ill keep saving up.
Heya luke! Is it possible to make some more close-up pictures of the prints to get a fair comparison of the prints?
As for why people print at high lift speeds, resin has this weird behaviour where if you pull it up fast (180mm/s+) or slow (50mm/s-) it'll print fine, but in between it'll fail more often then not, think of it like pulling off a bandaid, better do it fast or so slow you won't notice it.
Picked up the OPR of this month thanks to your previous video and having a blast painting these Beastmen (totally not Beasts of Chaos)
@@GeekGamingScenics yeah but for the actual comparison, half the model is out of focus and isn't close enough to see much of difference. So some supplementary shots would be nice.
Hope your feeling better soon Luke.
Luke, not a question but a suggestion - have u thought of getting some magnetic build-plates ? you simply take them off when the print is complete and bend the sheet of metal, and off come the prints. I cant remember the last time i had to use a scraper to remove a print :)
The 4k was my first printer and absolutely amazing quality prints. Build plate just isn’t big enough
Wish you had said more about the settings in the slicer. Because there is the Most Difficulty with resin printers
Hope ya feel beter.. im sniffling too lol! Awesome vid:)
Thanks for the insights here Luke, get better soon pal.
Damn, and I was all set to buy a halot sky for Christmas. Great review/comparison, and I can’t wait to see how that army turns out.
Just picked one up for £140 in UK, think it's worth it at that price with a 20+ week wait for the Phrozen 8k
Good video, enjoy hearing your input without being a 3D printer preacher.
On the topic of the printer, $150 shipping, are they sending a man on foot? 30% of the cost of the printer.
I was waiting for your review of this brand!
The Emperor has finally heard my prayers!
Love your content mate!
Was wondering if you could tackle a small space 3d printer setup with ideas and solutions like your sofa painting video, for instance I live in a tiny one bedroom flat with my girlfriend and while I can fit a 3d printer in it would be on top of a single set of cubes in my living room and would need to get the print plate to my kitchen for cleanup.
There is no room next to where the printer would be for a tray to transport and then I have no room for a big vat of meths or for a UV curer so would need unique solutions or ones that are as small as humanly possibly.
Thanks for being awesome fella!
The printer fits your beard so well !
Ah, would've loved to see a comparison between painted models :) Of course you can see the difference between the prints! But I doubt that there's one after painting
Now its a question, as prices have dropped so much from a few years ago, do we buy the high end airbrush or the 3D printer? Do plastic crack producers (or those with lovely metal) have a place in market against printing without an attached game system to their company? Perhaps this is the turning point of smaller companies as GeeDubs reaches their IP midlife crisis with things like WarhamsterPus
Well these guys will be getting an email from me... thanks for the balanced review, hun
"....it's pretty terrifying". Lol. I love you. Omg. You're honesty.
I hope you get well soon, Luke. 👍
Very nice. What is the active effective dpi resolution if you correct for print bed size?
Someone should pick the correct miniature or print test that is designed to show if and exactly where the resolution improvements are. If you compare the wrong print design you won't see a difference which proves nothing. Then to really know you have to do a double-blind study. Can people actually tell the difference without using a magnifying glass side by side? Do a video where viewers vote. Then a followup video where the side by sides are labeled clearly.
Hope you feel better soon. Not sure I can persuade the missus to give up the pantry to put a printer in though ! ; )
What a line, "like a british teenager is knocking out kids."
That had me cracking up for a good while.
A spec race engenders the thought of not providing the consumer any value. You are racing specs but can't distinguish one from another. Which is something like going beyond 1080p screens or the megapixel count on your phone. The spec race in 3D printing isn't done yet. 300PPI, 700PPI, 1300PPI is a clear upgrade in fidelity as you've noted. We haven't reached the point where you can't distinguish a model from a traditional cast. So it is actual tech advancement, it's just some failed to implement it.
Amazing close-up shots. More examples please 😁
that beard is as orange as the cover of the resinprinter :D 0:20 secs ni :p
Nothing wrong with a spec race. 22 microns is amazing, and we're probably on a trajectory to one micron in five to ten years.
Yes. Yes, I need it.
0:21 OOOFFFF the savagery. Had a good laugh, mate. Get well soon.
Now we need copmarison with Anycubic Photon DLP
I was seconds from pulling the trigger on a Mars 3 when I saw this. So much for Elagoo's massive CZcams influencer campaign. 😂
ur done, pal. Johnathan Workshop is on his way to you right NOW.
i REALLY hope you get a nice cell
I would say as long as it's got a mono screen and built decently, no other specs matter that much at this point unless you're looking for competition painting prints. That's just my opinion, though.
@@GeekGamingScenics That makes sense. I suppose I was thinking more in terms of 'flagship printer from the well known companies or better' rather than going down cheaper, given that the flagship printers are ridiculously cheap nowadays.
Great review, to the point, Ty. Get well soon.
Just add it to the pva/water mix..Theyll never know it was snot that seals the scenery lmfao Thanks for these awesome videos Luke. Printers sure do add a nice addition as a hobbyist. A small learning curve forsure
A close up side by side comparison would have been useful.
It is great to hear your reviews, but would you be able to talk about the waste and how to safely dispose of the resin and offcuts. Printers give great benefits, but if we look at it in general there is a bit of a waste problem our hobby could be walking into.
This looks like a great one and thanks for all of your videos.
@@GeekGamingScenics good to know about the alcohol 👍 shame it is still the bin and not any form of recycling for the cured bits. Are there more expensive resins that can be recycled along with standard plastics?
@@FrozenThrog that is always true and I do that where I can with GW sprues. I guess one positive things is that you print what you need and you are not left with 30 extra heads and bolt guns etc... It would be cool to be able to have a process to render the bits down and reuse. It would be just a good step 🙂
I think due to it being a resin its not recyclable, like many hard plastics. They key thing is to cure all your supports before putting them into the bin, the same for any paper towels you use to clean up. Cure everything before it hits the bin.
One thing I have found with IPA is let it settle and decant it off before hitting it with sunlight or UV, you can reuse it loads of times, if you hit the bottle with UV while its still couldy it just sticks to the sides of the bottle.
It also seems to settle a lot faster if its very cold, I bunged a couple of litres in a bottle out in the snow over night and it was almost clear the next day. This needs more sciencing though, it could have been a one off :-).
Decant off the clear stuff then blast the sludge with UV for as long as you can before binning it.
Thank you Luke
The fact that this machine sells for under a grand blows me away.
Hope you get better soon mate!
The screen resolution is not so important in these. You still have the same vertical resolution. Couple that with the longer exposure times and the slow unpeeling, your prints will take longer. Prusa seems to be the only one to have tackled both issues at this stage.
omg Luke I burst out laughing at your opening joke... British teenagers knocking out kids... 😂 literal laugh out loud moment cheers mate
Thanks for the insights. Seems like a good way to go. Now! You. Go to bed. Get well
You really should wear a respirator even for a one off print for a video.
I bought an Creality Halot one for my first resin printer 😆
I spy a Elegoo Jupiter in the background!
Hi Luke, can you upload the videos of the home made acrilyc thinners & cleaners, and paint retader please? Grtz Joshua
I wish they'd put some level markings inside the Vat, so we can stop guessing how much Resin we should pour.
@@GeekGamingScenics why didn't I think about that lol. Thanks Man
Had a look at the link for the discounted printer and the cost looks okay, but then you go to shipping and it's an extra $160. Then you might get stung on import fees. Oof.
Definitely looks like a good piece of kit though!
Is that an Elagoo Jupiter Just casually sitting in the background?
I'm currently looking at printers and would buy this, but I can't justify the $300 shipping on a $500 (after discount) machine. I'll wait until there's a direct UK stockist.
0:00 I think that line at the beginning made you make the video too fast under 10 minutes¡¡¡¡
Did you buy the printer or did you get the printer provided from Phrozen, it's not clear in the video.