Late Roman Bureaucrats: Why they were crucial for Imperial unity, and Imperial disintegration
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2021
- Central to the governing of the Late Roman Empire were its bureaucrats, and it is to them that we can turn to see how and why the Empire was held together in Late Antiquity, and partially how and why it broke up.
SOURCES:
Barbarian Migrations & the Roman West, Halsall
Through the Eye of a Nelde, Brown
How Rome Fell, Goldsworthy
The Fall of the Roman Empire, Heather
Historian fails to fend off the catbarian invasions.
Chatti? More like Catti
No that was a very civilised invasion by Felis Catus not the barbarian Felis Silvestris!
Finally someone does videos on the late roman empire. Can I ask a personal question? How apperent were the cracks and failing of the empire to the very late emperors? Like would majorian if given victory in africa recognize what the problems were, or would he believe in bad luck and bad leadership for the calamity?
Yeah the late period doesn’t get much love on YT. I’m hoping to make that my niche, everyone seems to do the early empire or republic
Cracks were apparent, but the majority probably were understood by the time of Majorian to just be features of the Roman system, not bugs, because they had been going on for nearly a century by that point.
@@TheFallofRome So if for a hypothethical Majorians campaign were a success and he somehow manages to get the political clout to change policies, there wouldn't still be a Diocletian Like series of reforms to restructure the empire to solve those problems?
@@andreascovano7742
There was no going back by the time Majorian took power. If he won he would’ve still had to integrate the Germanic survivors into the Roman System that he would *have* to reform to continue in the West. There would’ve been a much more Roman Europe (or West) that could’ve been supported by later Eastern Emperors to the point where the West could return the favor (around 632ad or earlier)
I don’t know if he would try to destroy the Germans completely or reduce them to/lower-than federati (I don’t know how to spell that one) to continue serving the Empire.
@@andreascovano7742 No. The decline is organic. The pioneer virtues are corrupted by the centralisation of money. Capital destroyed Rome and the virtues that made it great. It was money that finished off the Republic ect. What Rome didn't have was a figure like Hitler who could revive a consciousness of Roman greatness and its virtues. Money talks. Toynbee and Spengler both agreed that Rome was destroyed by Capitalism. After a millennium it re-emerges from the dark ages Medieval period in the Italian city states ect. That it is now also in terminal decay in the West but far more accelerated is also terminal irreversible. See also the O'Henry Brothers Iron Law Of Decay In History. US 1880s. It compares with Marx but from a right wing position but the conclusion is the same. Systemic collapse. Not for nothing as an example of his degenerated class did Boris Johnson describe the Romans as bastards. He fell victim to the big money 22 himself.
Highly interesting
First of all, you said doodies. Second of all, great vid. A practical yet detailed discussion that begins to consider class in the Roman empire without being overly political.
Love the channel, I've probably watched 50 hours of your content in the last 2 months
Very interesting video and a beautiful cat.
Great video! I found it really interesting
Seems like every empire/kingdom revolves around the monarch convincing people he really has more power than what he does in the end.
Duh
Flavius Stilicho: Ask not what your Empire can do for you. Ask what *You* can do for the Empire!
“Your gonna do this the hole time aren’t you”
Man I was doing stuff at that moment and you took me off guard lol.
Good information plus cute cat equals everything I want out of a youtube video.
Could you do a video someday on the transition of Naval power in the Mediterranean?
First the Phoenicians, then the Greeks, then Carthage, then Rome.
There wouldn’t be piracy until the Vandals took over Africa and Carthage’s fleet which the Romans tried to stop with Justinian’s conquests…decades before an Arabic Caliphate decides to try their luck on the Waters rather than just the land.
It’s a fascinating history that I feel doesn’t get covered enough. Maybe I’m not looking in the right places🤔but I’d love to hear your insight someday:)
I have a couple videos on Carthage planned. Greece is a little outside my area, but I’ll take a stab at ir
@@TheFallofRome Carthage as in the civilization/culture or the history of the city?
Cause I’ll watch both but I would like to know why it was abandoned for Tunis (with the E. Romans being the last to use it’s the local capital). Tunis is a good spot inland but Carthage is like West Alexandria v. Cairo.🤔
Perhaps the Arabs wanted inland provincial capitals to prevent sea attacks?
the cat: nobody cares about you! i'm the real star of this show!
the problem of rome was that nero or ceasar didn't become god king like Qin Shi Huang and establish a cult of Bureaucrats.
What is the population size of the empire in the late principate and the early dominate?
Ive heard somewhere that it was intentional, that Romans (maybe caesar?) would try to integrate the aristocracy especially in Gaul. Where can I read about these specific ranks, titles, etc in the equestrians?
For that I would recommend Jones’ “The Later Roman Empire”, there are some editors for twenty dollars or so. I’d also suggest reading all of Peter Brown’s work, and Paul Veyne’s “History of Private Life”. That one I’d suggest you try to find in pdf. Print versions I’ve seen are somewhat expensive
@@TheFallofRome thanks
@@hello-ox5rf you’re welcome!!!
During its heyday the Empire seems to have had a lot of Greek freedmen as senior bureaucrats and they did a pretty good job mostly.
After the Empire split into east and west I suspect that Western Emperors were reluctant to give senior jobs to Greek speakers who might well still have strong links to the eastern Empire and might have divided loyalties in the event of conflict.
07:27 At least, they were color blind.
08:44 Garum One can find relevant profound info regarding the overall characteristic of people based on cuisine.
Love and cannot get over how the cat's name is Octavia 😂
THC is good shit man.
Audio not synced
Hail Octavius!
Kitty wants some salmon treats!
Not much discussion of how the Church came to replace the bureaucracy.
Not Moors. 🤨 No Moors until at least 670 when Kairouan and Ifriqiya was founded by ibn Nafi.
Ahem. Thank you so much for granting my request and doing a video on this topic! It was exactly what I was hoping for. Imagine what they would have done with paper! Let alone printing.
I think the point at which the aristocrats start looking for what the state can do for them instead of what they can do for the state (and obviously not unique to Rome) is where you can make the argument that they start becoming degenerates. I've been preoccupied for a long time on what can be done about it. Both then... and now.
Hm. My understanding is that the people the Romans describe as Mauri were indeed Moors...at least, that was my understanding based on my reading of Halsall and Kulikowski. Where do you recommend I look further?
I would agree that that is definitely a point where problems begin to arise, and I worry about it in the modern day at home too. But idk what to do I’m poor and one guy lmao. No but seriously it’s a problem
@@TheFallofRome My main issue with it is the word as it is used now (and I think at least 1200 years) specifically refers to Islamic Arabs/Berbers/Old Iberians. So calling the Mauri Moors creates some inherent confusion.
Also the word itself as used in the Mozarabic Chronicle (or at least the translations I've read) signifies the Mauri. So including say the Gaetuli (Saharan Berbers) or Numidians as I got the impression you did may not be the best choice if you are describing people from the Atlantic coast to Libya.
@@specialnewb9821 I see. I just checked Halsall’s “Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West” and it looks like he’s using specifically to refer to those groups living in what is today Morocco and Algeria.
Of course the section before that is going on about how the Roman view was “F you, you don’t get proper names bcz BARBARIAN”...
That said, if the Moors experience ethnogenesis during and after the Islamic conquests, I’m surprised Halsall made that slip up. His work is usually pretty solid with that stuff. What would you recommend instead? Just “Mauri”?
But, then again this was an off the cuff video and I probably should have explained the intricacies better. Granted I’m more familiar with the European groups than the North African
@@TheFallofRome Mozarabic Chronicle refers to ethnic groups more than religious groups. AFAIK its the earliest surviving Latin text that uses "Europenses" (referring to the franks at Tours/Poitiers), specifically uses Maurorum for Berbers living in Morocco and western Algeria and Ishmaelite for the Arabs.
It's tough. Moors was absolutely in use by the middle ages specifically to refer to Muslims of North Africa regardless of ethnic origin, so using it for the western/central North African Berbers is definitely a different usage than it has been for a long time.
I think Mauri might be best, but as I said a tough choice. Like to use Moor in the broad sense, I think the connection has to be regarding Islam.
@@TheFallofRome Is that why you were a randroid at one time? The Moochers?
Kitty!
Felis omnes mihi placket .
So,buerecrats are good
So, much like our oligarchy today in the US then….
Surely just the cost of running this bureaucracy is a heavy burden on the state.
That Bureaucracy are the begins of the new countries and the end of the empire
They indeed was neccesary but with the time start to go by this own
That is the reason why rome fall, when the local of the provincies start to think in this tribe and not in rome
Best example stillicho, he try to created a army using both empires because the aristocracy of the west said i dont want to wasted to much money in military, they go more and more every generations thinking in a world without rome
This kind of thing make you see that rome fall was imposible to stop, the corruption like the sovietics start to destroy every good things that they created
skip to 18:05 for a cat