Freedom from the Burden of Judging - A Conversation with Michael Wilcox (Part 2)
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- Hi everyone, this is Aubrey Chaves from Faith Matters. This is part two of our conversation with Michael Wilcox, and if you haven’t heard part one yet, it helps set up some important context for this episode. This is really not an interview so much as a story Michael tells: the story of his father, who navigated life in the mid-20th century as a gay man and a Latter-day Saint.
This story delves into the messy and painful predicaments his family faced, when reality failed to fit the predictable ideal. It also offers a glimpse into the experience of an LGBTQ member of the church several decades ago, before we became accustomed to talking about it as a community. And we want to emphasize that we’re not sharing this story because of its outcome, and in fact, quite the opposite: we found in this story the beautiful insight that we can release ourselves completely from judging others and love without an agenda-and it’s the relationships free of judgment and agendas that become celestial in and of themselves.
We want to thank Michael for being incredibly honest and vulnerable here, and for coming on to share so generously with us again.
That was one of the sweetest, most meaningful podcasts I’ve ever heard - Parts 1 & 2. Thank you Dr Wilcox for being so transparent and instructional and thanks, Faith Matters!
Brother Wilcox helped heal my soul in deep ways concerning my own father and circumstances that caused much heartache and pain and still can. I listened to his talk “when prayers seem unanswered” and it was nothing short of miraculous in the healing it gave my mind and heart. Thank you so much. 💕
Brother Wilcox,
I was in your father’s English class in High School! I loved hearing him tells us the stories of great literature. He was a gifted story teller. I remember one day he was telling us a story and you walked into his classroom. He politely excused himself to talk with you. After you left, he apologized to the class and explained that you were his son. I remember the emotion and love he had for you.
I loved your father and have learned alot from the Wilcox men! Thank you!❤
Thank you very much Bro. Wilcox for sharing your personal life with us. It has strengthen me and taught me to keep on using the principles that my Savior Jesus Christ so perfectly taught us during his ministry. He knows us and is our perfect judge and advocate.
Brother Wilcox never fails to teach my soul every time I listen to him. Thank you so much for sharing this most personal message of love.
I loved this. My husbands brother died at 42 after serving a mission and then living a gay lifestyle. His death was such a tragedy. I know he is at peace now. Thanks for sharing. You are such a choice spirit!
What a beautiful story and hopeful picture of life after death. I’m so glad I stumbled across this video . Thank you Brother Wilcox and the interviewers.
Loved this conversation with Michael Wilcox. Thank you Bro. Wilcox for sharing your story about your wonderful relationship with your Father. So grateful that you taught all of us about just being loving and leaving judgment to God. I loved your "great release" which all of us need to gain. When I read in the Book of Mormon about all things being restored to their proper and perfect frame, I truly believe that one thing that will be made perfect will be the removal of same-sex attraction, which I am convinced is a result of living in a polluted and fallen world, that does terrible things to our mortal bodies. Your Father's radiant face after death is a further witness to me of that belief. His agony was gone. Michael is an amazing teacher. I always learn SO much from him.
I have shed tears listening to both part 1 and part 2. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.❤️
I’ve been a huge fan of Brother Wilcox and this is the first time he really shares about his father and his nuclear family dynamics. Thank you sharing all this with us! I just love you for who you are. Thank you for always speaking to my soul!!
Bro. Wilcox, this is important perspective to share to know why some dads don’t communicate with their kids or don’t have the level of engagement that people expect them to and unfairly call them “deadbeat dads”. There is a lot of real shame and pain that factors into the distance. The judgment piece is huge.
Thank you so much Brother Wilcox. My heart has been touched by your story. I have listened to the recordings of your talks over and over for several years, and I appreciate your courage and compassion in telling the rest of the story about your father. I needed to hear these words from you as I am facing some related but different challenges in my own family. Thank you for especially sharing about your father coming to you after his passing. I hope that someday you can also have a visit from your sweet eternal companion. Thank you again.
Thank you for this beautiful podcast Brother Wilcox. I have learned so much and have felt the
Spirit. ♥️🙏🏻
That's weird that he would say therapy won't help it does help but I have to be willing just like with the Savior he won't force I wonder why he can't or won't see it😢
What a beautiful conversation. Thank you so much for sharing and it’s a perfect ending to the story. Joy!
Ive cried through this whole podcast. I thank you deeply.. some in our family have come out gay.. all men so far. It has broken families and had dire effects. It has been sooooo painful. I have tried to be kind, meaning not hateful.. but I have not been able to reach out and be loving. It has been soooooo painful to watch the devistation in our family. I have a grandchild that I think willl soon come out as gay also. After watching your podcast, Bro Wilcox, I think I can handle this much better. More Christlike. With love unfeigned. I am deeply grateful. thank you so much. thank you.
So very good.
Part 1 is very interesting. Part 2 is even much more interesting. I love to hear the two conditions of Michael Wilcox’s mom especially the number one. I think Michael Wilcox’s father, Frank, tried to use his marriage to Norma to change his sexuality to make him a straight man but failed. No matter what, Frank was successful to change Norma to be a good LDS member and a good mother. Norma was gracious that she didn’t ask her children to stand on her side to turn against their father. A good Christian should not harbor hate but forgive. It’s very unfortunate that a Christian is unable to conduct a life with self control, self discipline and a strong sense of responsibility. A marriage involves the responsibilities to take care of a spouse and the children. Maybe that kind of sexuality is so strong that a man will give up his straight marriage. I cannot imagine that.
What a blessing to us all!
Thank you!
❤
Yester afternoon, I stepped out of my office and saw two men holding hand in hand at the corner of the street. I saw their smiles towards each other. I could tell they were in love.
I don’t publicly support any LGBTQ activities but I see them as humans. I accept the fact that every human deserves to love and live the lives they want. I can imagine the pains of LGBTQ who hid their identities in the past when the world rejected them. Let the world fill with love freely and stop denying LGBTQ community.
Yes, I think we need to begin by "seeing" other people, even if we don't understand them. Gay doesn't make any sense to me. But I know that it does to them. "Seek first to understand, then to be understood," as Stephen Covey said.
Love the person, hate the sin.
@@kathleenerikson2856 I cannot figure it out how people become interested in the same sex because I am not one of them. Especially lesbians, what do they do with each other’s body? 🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭. Jesus Christ! Lord has Mercy!
Anyhow, in view of humanity, we don’t want to reject people and inflict the pains on anyone. God will judge every one of us in the end. In this world, Satan and demons are very active in looking for their targets. I think homosexuality might have a lot to do with their mentalities.
Sometimes I look around and notice that many women are such a pain in the neck, troublemakers and gossipers. Look at those so called real housewives on Bravo’s reality shows. Those women fight, scream and curse to one another like wildcats. I say to myself probably gay men have more peace in their lives than living with women.
Sometimes I also ask God why He created Eve to procreate. Without Eve, sin won’t have a chance. Adam might have peace of mind and happier life with God and angels. OMG! Please forgive me, Lord! Please forgive me for questioning you.
@@kathleenerikson2856 I can’t explain how and why men are interested in other men and women in other women. Satan and demons are very active in this sinful world to look for targets/victims. I wonder homosexuality might have something to be with certain people’s mentality and indulgence on sex without self control.
In my upbringing environments caused by my own mother’s controlling and manipulative personalities, there is no way I would fall in love with another woman even when the world turns to square shape. I am not afraid of men and women but I am careful. Jesus is my strength. He is my light to show me the way. I imagine some people need other people like friends and partners to find their own identities. I have not been in love in my life. I cannot tell what the homosexual love feeling for one another. Lord has mercy.
@@markchristiansen9611❤
I needed to hear this podcast, God Bless❤
My son is gay. His wedding
to another man was the saddest and hardest day of my life. I cried with my heart broken at his wedding. He told me, " Mom, this is a large part of my life, and if you want to be a part of my life, you have to accept it." I wanted to be a part of his life, but it took a long time for me to deal with it all. I still struggle inside, but my BIGGEST heartache is wondering about his place in God's kingdom. I cry when i think of being without him in our eternal family unit....thats where i need peace, that's where i need solace.. i can deal with anything if i know things will be okay in the end. Please help me mend my broken heart.😢
I am a woman who has come to saving faith in Jesus Christ and my son is also gay. Your son and my son are RIGHT with God. I pray that you let go of 'religion' and its fear mongering about the kingdom and allow your heart to fully love and embrace your gay son AND his partner. God will take care of the rest. Share the good news of God's grace with them, stop judging them on God's behalf and love them for the rest of your days. Walk with them through their union. Time is short. Demonstrate the love that God has for them, through you.
I went through a period after my conversion of being fearful for my son's gayness. But no more. God has opened my eyes to the sheer incomprehensible enormity of his LOVE for ALL his creatures and his reconciliation of them ALL through Jesus Christ. And this has come by solitary study of God's word, not the doctrines and traditions of men. GOD himself has revealed this to me through HIS word and he can and will for you, too. To realize this is to know the PEACE of God.
I walked away from a kingdom fellowship in February because what they teach - eternal death and destruction - contradicts everything God wants us to know about him and his love for us and his GRACE. This cannot come through men, but only through God's word.
Luke 12:6-7 "Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows."
I could say so much more but I will end with this: God wants HIS LOVE to flow through your heart. Satan wants you to see through the eyes of law, sin and death and become the judge of others. Allow God to rule in your heart. Love your son through the spirit of God, not the spirit that is in the world. Because the spirit in you is greater than the spirit that is in the world. Amen.
God bless and grace and peace in Christ.
@claresailing ❤ Amen
God is love. He does not divide families or hold them hostage. Who are we to believe we are qualified to pass judgements? Life is too short. Love your son and realize he is happy. If you truly love him, you want him happy his way, not your way ❤
Dear sister, I am so sorry for your pain and heartache! I truly hope you can find peace.
I don't necessarily agree with everything that has been offered to you for help. We know that the Laws of God are real and won't matter in the end because of His all-consuming love for His children. When we truly understand the reason for His laws, we quickly learn that His laws are in place BECAUSE of His all-consuming love for us. But, understandably, this doesn't necessarily make us feel any better about the choices of your son and how it affects your eternal family.
This is exactly why we have a Savior. In a world that is full of confusion, deception, misinformation, wicked and conspiring men, etc., we have a perfect Judge who knows the intents of our minds and our hearts perfectly. He asks us to have total faith in Him. He knows your son better than anyone and He never gives up on His sheep. The exact details of the final outcome are obviously, and intentionally, not known. But, what we do know is that if we keep our covenants, all things will be made right by Jesus Christ, however that ends up working. That promise extends to your son even through you! Think of the promised blessings in the sealing ordinance. Somehow, without violating your son's freedom to choose, if you keep your covenants, our Savior will orchestrate a glorious eternity for you and your posterity. That is the blessing he promises.
I know that if you choose to have faith in those promises from the Lord, He can and will help you to also be "released" from the burden of judgement, like Dr. Wilcox says, and help you to see more clearly the glorious future still possible for your son. Allow Christ to take your fears of what is unknown and replace it with the type of love for your son that comes from having confidence that the Lord also loves him. It is absolutely possible to be true to your beliefs in God's laws AND have unconditional love for your son and his partner. Let Jesus take care of the rest. I promise he will!
As for my personal opinion, based on my own experience with same-sex attraction, I believe we live in a society that has created a skewed understanding about "identity." It's one of the most fundamental truths about our relationship with God and, therefore, Satan would naturally do everything he can to confuse us about it. Doing so alters our understanding about the plan of salvation, so it's no wonder he uses it as a high-value target in a day where his deceptions can spread like a truly-global pandemic through our advanced forms of communication. There's a reason our leaders have been emphasizing understanding our "true identity." I personally do not believe my attractions have much, or any, relevance to my true identity as a Child of God, a Child of the covenant, and a disciple of Jesus Christ. I view my attractions as more of something I experience rather than my definition. The Lord emphasized this idea to me by blessing me with an attraction to my wife when I asked for it. I'm still attracted to men and have no attraction to women, but I have a strong and healthy attraction to my amazing wife! Again, this is my own feelings and understanding on it. I do not, in any way, claim to speak for the Lord or His church regarding the matter. This is just what feels correct to my soul.
@brandoncurtis386 thank you for sharing that. THAT is pure faith. Faith in Jesus Christ who SAVES US, but uses those laws that seem difficult to us in our narrow perspectives. He does not excuse sin. BUT - He ALWAYS LOVES! There IS a balance. There IS a way to love everyone purely and wholly wherever they are on their path. And we ALL are sinners and need our Savior. That does NOT mean we have to move that one sure foot on the compass. (See part one of this talk.) I LOVE finding truth and beauty everywhere, but I have learned the hard way that my one sure foot has to be deeply rooted in the LORD'S way, not mine. His Love and His laws do NOT contradict each other. That is the beauty of it. We CAN love the way Dr. Wilcox lived his father and that IS within the teachings of the Savior. And we can follow our own covenant path at the same time. God bless you, brother in your wisdom and the courage you have from the journey you have walked! ❤
Amazing
🥰🙏
Is there a way I could have a conversation with Bro Wilcox?
Michael Wilcox is happy with who he is. He is happy he is the physical creation resulted from the union of his father and mother. Through the union, a family of son, daughters, grandchildren and grand grand children are born. I think Norma was happy that she became born again through the marriage to Frank. There are many good things coming out of the marriage when Norma looks down from Heaven. I think the church and other church members should not have condemned anyone for what has happened. Things happen sometimes have a reason. In the end, Frank turned back to God and served the church. Probably, Frank saw his own children and grandchildren are happy with the church. So he turned around. God forgives sinners when they truly repent. As concluded from part 1 and part 2, we should not marginalize and judge people especially LGBTQ. Let God be the judge alone. I do believe that every human has dignity. We should treat one another with respect.
God used Frank to convert Norma to be a good LDS. From Norma, a family of LDS was born. God has His purpose. Did I get it wrong that C decided to get married with a woman and have a normal family? Hmm! That means a gay man can become a straight man. So homosexuality is probably a matter of mentality. When a person thinks straight, he or she can live a life as a straight person. Am I right about that? In the end, Frank did good things by returning to church and served his church. I imagine every angelic being is radiant and happy in Heaven. There is no worry and pain in Heaven.