Paramount's 2018 reboot of the 1988 cult classic is the worst kind of garbage. Here's why! / sarahz (alternatively titled: i flub up the word 'adaptation' a bunch of times)
First, that girl can't play Heather Chandler, she just can't. Second, if Heather doesn't die, Veronica doesn't start dating JD. If they don't start dating, there's no murders. If Heather doesn't die, the movie doesn't even exist
Oh, trust me, she starts dating JD in the reboot alright (albeit it's less because of Heather's death but more because she's suddenly a psychopath who's into guys that would make Christian Grey run for the hills- I wish I was joking).
The "lick it up, baby" scene from the original Heathers happened because Veronica refused to hook up with a guy at a party, and Heather Chandler was convinced it was absolutely necessary to stay popular.. and then Veronica puked on her because she was wasted. This entire party scene showed the audience that, while Heather was a mean popular girl, she was only really doing what she did because of the expectations put on her. Earlier in that scene, a guy practically forced her to go down on him, showing us that even she was subject to social pressures, forcing her to conform to all the stereotypes of the "popular girl" role, however much she detested it. The "lick it up, baby" scene in Heathers the musical took place because Veronica refused to be passive- or complict, as the Heathers try to get her to be throughout Candy Store- in the bullying and torment of her best friend, and Heather Chandler takes it personally and essentially tells her that if she won't do this, she is kicked out of the Heathers and will have to go back to being bullied and ostracised. This scene is Veronica's breaking point- the moment she really realises what bad people the Heathers are, and decides to no longer play any part in it. It also implies that Chandler, Duke, and McNamara have had to make sacrifices to stay at the top, but they weren't as strong-willed, or inherently morally good as Veronica (or, they were children and desperately seeked the approval and adoration of their peers). In this adaption's equivalent,, Heather calls out Ram for wearing a racist shirt,, and Veronica is pressed that she called him out? That's literally the opposite of what this scene was created for.
And I've always believe that the "lick it up,baby" was referring to the scene before that, the one with the guy forcing her to go down on him, maybe he said the same thing on different context and that's why it hits Chandler so much, maybe they were going to put that but decide that it was too much or just wanted to keep it simple and blurred
That was essentially the point. This is a masturbatory fantasy for Conservatives to pretend that straight white athletic conventionally attractive people are the real victims of society and that overweight people, people of color and the LGBT community are the real oppressive bullies.
Yeah it the whole plot point. 😂 But the idea of Heather (a lil popular bitch who uses everyone to gain popularity ) never dies. Somebody always takes the top spot. That's one of the messages of the original movie.
She was replaced by another girl (forgot her name), but she was bullied for being poor. Heather C. decided to represent suicide, selling "I am Suicide" labelled shirts at Westerburg. That one girl couldn't afford it, so she took a random plain shirt she had and sharpied those words on. Everyone else were "representing suicide" by wearing the shirt, yet mocked the girl for her pathetic attempts to fit in (by not being able to afford actual stuff). Like Martha, she's driven to a point of hating her own worth (because of how poor she is, and realising everyone else didn't actually give a shit about those suffering). She ends up in a wheelchair, and in episode 7, Heather actually tries befriending her after feeling bad. Episode 5, the two of them get out of school similar to the ending of Movie Heathers - Heather walks by the wheelchaired girl along a corridor.
New heathers: Not scared to add gay “Heather” Also New heathers: is scared to kill off the most popular character that so happens to have a big massive change to the original source
like the fact they add a gay "heather" makes no sense to me at all, is that even addressed???? I mean I'm all for the LGBT+ community, but with this source material in that particular roll doesn't work!
@@curedreamfandubz4116 true, and that's fine, and I love how heathers the musical adds upon it. They also add to the plot.. having a gender-swapped Heather on the other hand is completely different.. like gender swap everyone if you're gunna do it, but just to add a random ass gay kid as a Heather is just so jarring.
@@alyskramer5614 Yes, I agree, i'm gay myself and first of all this seems like a classic case of 'LoOk A gAy CharAcTeR wE'Re sO INclUsIvE' and also that Heather is a stereotype, not that gay guys like that are invalid, but I feel like every gay character in the media is that stereotypical guy. I would have loved if Heather Duke was a girl who was still in the closet and how she feels like she has to be straight because of how society works
Some other points: They took out the color theory!??? UM??? EXCUSE ME??? I mean, yes, the Heathers did kind of wear their og colors, but it wasn't as obvious as it should have been. Although, considering how the characters were butchered, I suppose their colors wouldn't make sense anymore. Heather C's red as a symbol of power is diluted Heather D's green, a symbol of envy, is rather pointless, considering her complete lack of character in this adaptaion Heather M's yellow, representing fear, makes no sense considering the way she (they?) behave(s) Veronica's blue, for wit and intelligence, doesn't work if she's not being portrayed as...you know...intelligent. JD's black was for deceit, anger/sadness, and lack of innocence, but this JD doesn't have a lot of character anyways.
@@whyudoit4009 the "shut up Heather" is meant to represent how Heather Chandler is always putting down Duke. It makes you understand why Heather Duke wants to take Chandlers place as powerful queen after she dies.
not to mention that J.D. and even the Heathers were all very complex characters in the original: J.D. had issues bc his mom died, Heather Chandler was being objectified and sexualized which lowered her self-esteem, Ncmara had anxiety and was suicidal and Heather Duke had an eating disorder, as she is seen throwing up her food. Even if they are villains, it still shows that there’s a lot more to people then you think
Daniella de Kok Each Heather had there own color too. The Peathers do wear those colors, but to me it seems less obvious. Which is bad in my opinion since each of the character's color represented their personality (Ex: Chandler is red, red shows power, JD is black, black shows anger, isolation and darkness, Duke is green, green is associated with envy and Duke is envious of HC. Same with some other characters)
Re the racist tshirt scene: I can totally imagine them doing something where the popular girls twist some geeky kid's bumbling words to make it sound like they said something racist then threatening to post it online, that would be very Mean Girls and actually quite clever in the way it showed the possibility of social justice language being weaponised. But really, quite aside from the shirt being totes racist, in a universe where having a picture of yourself wearing it posted on twitter would ruin you, why the hell would you choose to wear it to school? It's dumb and makes no sense
I remember kids getting in trouble for wearing stuff to school back in the 2000s, but its definitely ramped up to crazy levels in the last few years due to social media and political divides. Just in the last year, three cases kids have had thousands of people bullying them online for wearing a trump shirt, or a pro wall shirt, or another case where a shirt said "killer" on it, I think the second kid got suspended from school. Anyway, when students take pictures and put these kids online to ridicule, there's people in the camp who think they deserve what they got for wearing those shirts, and there's people in the camp that wearing a shirt shouldn't get you lambasted online that its still bullying, but either way this movie was pretty trendy to go with the whole shirt story where someone is afraid of getting their picture put online for wearing a shirt, but they clearly didn't want to go the full way being currently relevant and opted out of any current day issues, instead going with an issue that a lot of high schools had 7 or 8 years ago, the whole native american mascot debate. If they had gone with an issue of today instead of a few years ago, the movie would have probably been too divisive as you literally can't tackle a current issue as the pepsi commercial shows, both sides will just hate you. Seems like both sides hated this movie anyway, so that minor plot decision was probably made in vain.
@@QuikVidGuy what? where did I say this? I pretty clearly explained both sides, your ignoring half of what I said if that's what you extrapolated from my post.
@@QuikVidGuy not just someone. children. imagine the dumbest things u did and thought as a kid broadcasted to the world via the internet, and those things attached thus attached to u forever - even tho u were at an age when godawful opinions were par for the course and why do kids have these shitty opinions? quite likely, because their parents do. do u really wanna punish a child for simply believing in what they've been indoctrinated into believing? i have a feeling that u do. if that is correct, then please dont reply, i'd really rather not hear u explain urself
In the OG heathers you can see that the heathers were still humans, heather chandler being objectified duke with her eating disorder and macknemera being suicidal. In this new one it’s another basic mean girls VS outcasts
...the whole point of the heathers was that the heathers were "perfect" they were white and skinny, and we're desired by all because they were society's definition of perfect at the time, making it more "inclusive" ruins the whole point of them being so unrealistically perfect and popular
ShonColle+ No. Not from our society’s standards. Of course not. A black girl is not considered aesthetic. A poor girl is not considered influential or cool. A lesbian is not considered desirable to half of the school (the boys), except maybe the ones who think they can ‘turn her straight,’ and it would be a stupid fucking tactic to have a minority play the ‘privileged, perfect members of polite society, top of the food chain’ AS BULLIES, because what kind of message would that send? They’re called minorities for a reason. The Heathers are what society deems as the ‘perfect upper class women.’ - Which are straight (possibly bisexual), white, beautiful, feminine, preppy girls with rich parents.
@@kiera6326 "A lesbian is not considered desirable to half of the school (the boys)" I find interesting how lesbians are treated depending on if they're "conventionally attractive or not". If they are, their sexuality is treated as trying to get male attention. If they're not, they're told that they only like women because they're too ugly to find a man. Nuance may apply, but in general this is the most common scenario, sexuality that doesn't exist to appeal to men is treated as deviant.
Riley+ Exactly!! Women are treated almost entirely to do with their sexuality and sex appeal, even if it’s not intentional, and that starts right from teenage-hood. Even Heather Chandler (in the original), who is supposed to be very manipulative and influential and powerful, can only manipulate through sex and sociality. “Everyone wants me as a friend or a fuck.” Heather is the pinnacle of male desire, and the male desire is what girls aspire to be. This is the key to her popularity. And in the end, she has no power, as we see her going down on her knees for the guy at the party. Sex is a powerful weapon, and Heather cares more about her image (how society sees her), than her own comfort, morals and sense of true self. If she didn’t portray the image she did, Heather would have no power in the school. Exactly. Boys like a hot, feminine lesbian until they realise they ain’t gonna get to tap that because she genuinely is not attracted to them. Being bi is fine, because girl on girl action is such an old (hot) fantasy of the straight male. But God forbid he doesn’t get to participate in the threesome, or if she decides she wants to settle down with the chick rather than him. Coming out as ‘lesbian’ wouldn’t hurt Heather’s image really at all- in fact, it might even increase her popularity overnight. More guys would seek after her. She would only lose the popularity until she refused to suck whatever-his-name-was’s dick, and people started to realise that she wasn’t being cute or quirky, but serious. Then it’d be lost overnight.
ShonColle - a lot of the charm of the ORIGINAL story was how it played off its time. Just setting to story to modern day is kind of ruining it. Like, the musical version was a little more modern, but not "lol" kind of modern. The story is supposed to portray a stereotype. It's not only meant to cater to minorities smh
hope but why would a movie producer make a remake of a bad or broke movie if there’s not guaranteed money to be made, I do hate modern remakes of old classics but there’s a reason to their madness
Unfortunately, the business of show business is why they do it. But the best remakes are of films that were donr badly the first time or for other reasons are not so watchable now. Red Dragon, a remake of Manhunter, is one of my favorites. The original had a great story (adapted from a great book), but it was completely 80's in all the wrong ways. The remake was not too far below Silence of the Lambs, to which it served as a prequel. I was really glad when they were remaking Planet of the Apes, but they didn't do a good job. Andy Serkis was great, but they lost all the brilliant social commentary of rhe original. I was hoping for them to just fix the massive plotholes caused by the fact that it wasn't planned in advance and the budget kept shrinking with every film, plus use more modern sensibilities and techniques. But that isn't what they did.
omg the best reboot plot would be veronicas daughter finding her mothers diary about her confessing to killing people (“my teenager angst bullshit has a body count”)/wanting heather chandler to die n such
I remember seeing this thing on tumblr where it was basically like (I'm probably getting this wrong but you get the idea) "what if there was a Heathers sequel where Veronica's 4 year old daughter starts talking about her imaginary friend who wears a kimono and a red scrunchie and has a blue tongue and Veronica is like oh shit" and that just made me think of that
See your first mistake was assuming you were part of the target audience. The characters don't talk or dress like a real teenager because it's not targeted to real teenagers. It's targeted towards aliens with no concept of how human interactions work. They deserve entertainment too!
Actually they don't talk like actual teenagers because both the original and the series are satires, you see in the originals heather, j d and veronica don't talk like actual teenagers, take the lines 'do you wanna be part of the most powerful clique of the school" said by heather, no teenager says stuff like that, so the problem wasn't with the dialogue.....
@@caseydavis57 true, the creator is untalented, but not going to high school and only experiencing via television and films definitely impacted their writing as well
Chloe Davis I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but I don’t really think you could. He might’ve done an awful job, but he is a professional and I’m assuming you’re not. And you’re both lacking experience so a person who actually went to a mainstream school would do a better job because they know what it’s actually like and have actually been through it.
God they aren’t even giving them the proper story. It’s Ike giving them the version of heathers that went through a wood chipper and they put it back together poorly with glue
when he director said "jd is the villain and the heathers aren't skinny white girls" I thought "oh cool so we're supposed to feel bad when they're killed and realise the danger of justifying anger against minorities right?" I was so wrong. SO wrong.
Macaroni and Cliches but JD was always portrayed like the villan in the movie, he's just a complex character with who you can empathize even if you agree that he's totally wrong and need therapy, just like Heathers, they're bitches, but hey they're humans too This remake is just... urgh so disrespectful with the original resource, even the musical (that is not my favorite) is a better adaptation
One production of heathers the musical's used a plus sized WOC as Veronica. She'd didn't grasp Veronica's awkwardness and made her sassier in the beginning. My problem with it was the portrayal of Martha. Martha is naive, the actress made her stupid.
Oo that would be a great modernization. and that could also lead to some commentary on like gentrification and/or preformative inclusivity. Damn now i really want to see that
Exactly, it's supposed to be that Veronica gets herself into a series of murders and has to stop JD, but if the first murder doesn't happen the whole thing is ruined.
The criticizing callout culture angle could work if the writers were a little smarter about it. The Heathers would still be privileged upper middle class white girls. Heather Chandler is the type of person who uses callout culture as a way to bully because she likes the rush of power it gives her, but she doesn’t really care about the causes she pretends to champion. Maybe she does things like lecture a mixed race student about their white-passing privilege or telling a bisexual student that they should “stay in their lane” when talking about lgbtq issues bc this student is dating someone of the opposite sex at the moment. Meanwhile her activism doesn’t go beyond just bullying others. Heather Macnimera (sp?) is someone who does want to do more genuine activism, but since she follows Chandler and doesn’t rock the boat, she just goes along with it. Heather Duke is a Chandler clone like in the original and is even worse when she becomes the main heather. Veronica is someone who was duped into thinking Chandler was genuine about her causes but by the start of the show is starting to see Chandler’s faux activism for the bullying that it is. Then DJ comes along and she gets taken in by his radical ideas until they turn deadly. The whole message of the show could be about how doing bad things while hiding behind a mask of good intentions isn’t any different than doing bad things for the hell of it.
dear diary, WHYYYYYYY movie: why do they hate me fans: we need to fight back characters: why do i act like such a freak the director: why won’t they like me everyone who was excited for it: why did i hate it me after watching it: i feel like i should cry myself to sleep the movie: somebody like me! somebody fix me! somebody save me! old heathers fans: send me a sign god! give me some hope here! something to live for!
tbh like, if they picked a black actress (or other racial minority) to play heather mcnamara because they were the best actress, it would've been fine. the character would still need to come from a privileged background tho and be a terrible human being, but since heather mcnamara is one of the more human heathers and only acts like that bc she wants to survive, her being black would actually be great for her storyline (like, how she is already looked down on by society, but she joins the heathers so everyone sees her in this new spotlight and she starts being more and more ignorant and mean than she actually is). but now they just chose these actors and actresses BECAUSE they're a minority, which completely misses the point of heathers... ugh idk, it's all so confusing
To be honest I think people shpuld strafe away from the constant victimised Minority character type. To make progress means to have change. And I am not saying certain minority groups aren't pushed down, I am well aware that in various places even in some states of america still people of colour are still being given less equal chances. But making POC's constant victims of society in media kinda puts you in a self defeatist pessimistic loop, I think minoirty characters should stop being written like minorities and instead just like any other character, the same reason, same goes for autistic characters.
Annalee Higley yes, except the whole point of the heathers is the fact that the heathers are privledged. making them “minorities” ruins the whole concept.
Well unfortunately, casters, directors, and producers are incapable of picking a non-white or non-straight (or sometimes non male) role without it being part of some cynical plan. This idea that they would think a black female actor just happen to fit and were open "to all races" without it being a thing they were going for originally (probably cynically) is a fantasy. If you really want them to stop being shallow and surface-level, you're going to have to get different sorts of people in those positions of power (and that just is not going to happen )OR if you happen to have a lot of the creatives as gay or black or whatever - but then the company paying the bills will (most of the time, not all - I don't think Queer as Folk has problems with being forced to have straight characters, for example) will mandate some straight or white people to "increase the audience protentional" and then you have minorities picking majorities under similarly shallow setup.
In the West End Heathers (at least when I saw it) Heather Duke was portrayed by a black actress, but it didn't make a difference to how they portrayed her bc she was still a rich popular kid
Heather Chandler doesn't die but the whole point of heathers was having suicide glorified and turned into something popular kids did. then JD was going to use this as a way to get away with murder by explonding the school and make it look like a massive suicide because he trick the whole school into signing their names on a questionare. did they take out JD's mom suicide and his abusive father too. also Heather Chandler dying was so important because in the end veronica feels guilty and she finally sees JD for the person he truly is after they kill ram and kirt.
Harley Quinn well in the movie jds mom left him in the car and purposely went into the building his dad was blowing up. jd also said his mother looked right at him as the building blew up.
Why do they talk about corn nuts so much in this adaptation. Sure it’s the last thing Heather Chandler said when she died in the original but it wasn’t super important. It seems like they’re trying to shove it in our faces that “ITS HEATHERS!”
Oh is THAT why they added all the corn nut stuff? I was so confused why there were making a point about that. I forgot that that was what Heather said before she died
As a skinny, blonde white kid I want to calm down all the conservatives: We don't need your protection. We are doing fine. Go back to making movies showing a problem that actually exists, cause I don't see people geting shamed over not being fat, white or LGBT in my school anytime soon. I want my privileged, human Heathers back goddamit.
They actually have ten episodes and they do a great job and giving you delicious easteggs all the way through. Every time you see and hear one was really fun
honestly they could have done the "gone-too-far callout culture" angle much better if the characters... were NOT diverse. usually the worst offenders of that kind of behaviour are over-performative allies for whatever cause they're on. maybe if our POV character (also non-diverse) saw that they were hurting people's genuine complaints by over reacting to tiny things and that's why she initially felt somewhat justified going along with JD... then realised that she'd essentially been complicit in the exact same thing but with murder?? Idk it's messy to go with that angle either way, heathers works better as a privileged group who bully those who are different imo
It’s kind of hilarious what adults think “youth culture”/public school is like, as someone that these pieces of media are theoretically representing...? Like, it’s almost comical how TV high schools will super accepting (or *too* accepting, like in this case) and then you go to school and some people’s every other word is a slur. (And I live in a relatively left-leaning/progressive area, too).
We already have a modern Heathers - Mean Girls. It's not as good as OG Heathers imo, but it's still pretty good on its own. This remake is completely irrelevant.
Dear diary, We shouldve gotten a movie version of the musical with the first musical cast.... Im also writing this on my two copies of my kungfu panda 2 dvd-
So late to this party but i want a reboot where veronica is manipulating jd and is super ok with all the murder, i have it all written out in my head lmao hollywoods hmu
Heather Chandler in this one reminds me of how Martha was mentioned in Candy Store. "If she had your shot, SHE WOULD LEAVE YOU TO ROT!" That this might be what Martha Dunstock would have been in a very very very very very very very very very very vvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy distant alternate universe where Chandler never existed.
It actually would have made a lot of sense having the woman who played Chandler be Veronica. In the musical I always wondered why Veronica was unpopular because she was just a makeover away from perfection like basically all makeover movies.
@@JasminMiettunen I think the context behind Veronica's and Chandler's relationship in the musical kinda got lost because in the original movie, Veronica was already part of Heathers' clique and was childhood best friends with Chandler. She only got to befriend Martha by the end of the movie. I would understand why they made those choices in the musical stage because directing for that is different and would require them to fit everything in while making it work for the stage production.
invisibleninjandy I wondered why I didn’t remember the scene when I first heard the song Beautiful from the musical! It had been a while since I saw the movie, but I did think something was off, lmao
@@morbidsearchCorrect Veronica was also childhood friends with Betty aswell I believe, but in the musical Betty doesn’t exist and is replaced with Martha Dunnstock, (in the musical some of Betty’s personality traits were given to Martha in the musical version) However in the movie Betty, or better known, Betty Fin and Martha Dunnstock are two different people. In the movie, Betty isn’t as relevant to the plot as Martha though-
I think that making the Heathers minorities could have been a great idea if they had used their being different as a chance to explore the reasons why they became bullies in the first place (after all, both in the movie and the musicals there are many moments in which we are able to see their insecurities and personal issues) instead of going for this ridiculously forced "SJW" plot. It's a wasted opportunity in my opinion. As you said, a horrible person is still a human being and their actions always have, if not a justification, at least an explanation behind them. Exploring that would've made this show much more interesting and believable.
Cali Lovett it doesn’t even make sense. making the antagonists the only diverse characters? “oh no! us straight, white, cis people are so attacked by other people” it doesn’t make sense.
I could buy the Heathers being minorities as long as their still young, attractive, privileged, and shallow. I could buy Heather D being asian and Heather M being black but making Heather C fat is a tall order.
There's a good way to do a Heathers reboot. I'm not completely against it, Heathers is timeless it's kinda like Shakespeare. It doesn't need to take place in the era it was written in order to work. However there is a way to fuck it up and this reboot it how.
i mean seriously, i recently played egeus in a midsummer night's dream, and it was set in the 1960s. It turned out pretty well, actually. Though of course all we did was changed the costume, props, and set a bit, the script itself wasn't touched.
thats not really that much of an indictment as it was back in the day, seeing as there's so much entertaining, faithful, creative fan content being made while the official continuation of a series sucks
@@louschwick7301 honestly i've even seen good fan works for pieces of media that are good already. My favorite example is the works of nekomotherfuker on wattpad, her MCU fanfiction is genuinely amazing considering it falls under the "X Reader" genre.
Based on what I've read of the creators' commentary, I have what I think is a fairly cogent theory as to what their intent may have been. Simply, they wanted to adapt Heathers for its popularity, felt it might not resonate if the social context wasn't updated, then decided to base their update on whatever they could find that seemed to be popular with the 'youth of today.' They lifted social justice culture out of context because they simply pegged it as "what's popular with high school kids nowadays," and so assumed by extension that it would become the natural weapon of the popular over the unpopular. They then dovetailed that with their own perceptions of social justice culture run amok in the larger world and called it a day. Heathers 2018 was created for an imagined, even projected demographic of 'average' modern high-schoolers who were supposedly waiting for cultural emancipation from SJWs. By failing to understand that social justice controversies are separate from the general ebb and flow of purely aesthetic or trite behavioural trends, the creators shot themselves in the foot and alienated every possible target demographic. One doesn't need to hold any particular opinion on the issues this show (mis)handles to see agree that it failed utterly in its goal.
When I originally heard that there was going to be a Heathers' tv show, I thought it would be following their children for some reason. Something along the lines of Duke's child learning their mother was a vicious bully, McNamara's learning that their mom dealt with the same kind of crippling social anxiety they did, and Martha's child learning why their mother isn't so keen on spending time with people from her time in Westerburg. Most of all, Veronica's child accidentally discovering the fact that their mom killed three people (and maybe a question as to who their father really is...). Needless to say, I was stoked. Then the trailer hit. I knew immediately that this story I had imagined was only in the fandom and not hte board room. Showed my roommate who also loves Heathers the same trailer and she just kept repeating "What?" Based on your review, we really have no need to see it. Thanks for the public service, Sarah.
Also Heather being mean to Ram makes no sense, considering that in the original there are the top boys of the school and on one stand with the heathers and the love interest heather has chosen for them. So there are a clique more than enemies. God this show seems awful!
I remember when I was complaining about this series to some friends, I had this idea that it would be absolutely genius if they had the Heathers being like, the "socially acceptable" version of whatever their minority group is. Like, Chandler is fat, but more Meghan Trainor than Mary Lambert, McNamara is light-skinned black with straight hair, and Duke basically stays the same because "yaaas gay queen". Maybe Veronica is a femme lesbian because butches are scary. But like, Martha (who is completely missing from Peathers for some reason?) looks more like she did in the original movie and still gets bullied. Instead of creating a narrative that standing up for minority groups is somehow bad, it instead creates a narrative that society only perceives this as bad when the minority group in discussion isn't threatening or ugly to them. People feel like they're good, but are still racist, fatphobic, transphobic, what have you. And the Heathers themselves don't really care because high school survival instinct dictates that they're basically protected and shouldn't throw that away even at the expense of human decency. They should've hired me.
The biggest issue I noticed from the start was how they were trying to bring it into the modern social environment. For me, Heathers is all about the 80s suburban feel. It's the extremely conservative and uncaring vibe (which might not really fly well in current media anyways) that pulled me in from the start. Now, sure, you maybe could create a Heathers movie or series in the modern day that's engaging and handles its characters well, but the very blatant "popular alpha bitch" trope is what had me hooked. She wasn't popular because of a body positive gimmick; she just had the money and looks and just WAS popular.
I think that's why the musical works so well too. It's only a few years old but it kept the period and simply updated a few details to make things a little more relevant for today. Heathers only exists because of the brat pack films and I think it would be incredibly difficult to make any semblance of a coherent adaptation in another time.
And do high schools even work like that anymore? Can we move on from Mean Girls wannabes please? High schools cannot be so boring that we are working off tropes which are decades old.
You know what kids in my school actually get made fun of from? -Being weebs. -Harry Potter ships. -I wouldn’t say lgbt because I’ve been open about it from middle school and everyone except my close friends just get super confused and don’t talk to me? Maybe that’s my problem. -showing any signs of mental illness if you’re not super attractive and popular -openly meming -talent because jealousy I think
WHAT.THE.HELL. In my high school (well more precisely gymnasium) everyone is chill and there are many people like this that are open and share their interests to others (like me, I like anime and I'm really good at drawing, I don't see a reason why that should be a problem to other people), not to mention that I live in Croatia, which is viewed as a bad, poor and anti-gay country etc., it's utter bullshit. There is a trans girl who is also gay in our school and everyone is chill about it, she's loved for her unique personality and style. The only difference is that we don't have many people of different race (though they are steadily coming here) so I can't really say how we handle that stuff, but we have a LOT of gypsy people and some asians or africans here or there. Everyone loves to see different people, because we can learn many things from them (unless you're just here to suck out our money for the social minoritys). So I'm sorry that you're in that kind of surronding and I guarantee you that once you'll move to college everything will go for the better.
We have a lot of disgusting group of people in our batch so it's quite normal for each of us to not mind each other's business but sometimes they still make fun of that one kid who is quite and usually eats with the teacher during lunch time. It's quite sad tho
damm, my school just has the noraml, wanting highschool to be over already kids which is 95% of the school and then theirs that 5%, the weird batch of kids that try too hard to be "cool" and funny which we just straight up ignore since
in my school, you only get made fun of: • if you say something stupid • if you do something stupid • if you wear something stupid the only exception is if it's funny. even the popular people get put on blast - they're teased _more,_ even.
In the original movie and the musical they call Martha Dunstock "Martha Dumptruck" It doesn't make sense to have one of the Heather's overweight when they make fun of another girl for being overweight.
Soooo No martha cause cant bully her for being chubby cause chandler is chubby Chandler is mean for the sake of being mean instead of cunning and using people for her own gain not to mention she doesn't even die McNamera(?) isn't suicidal and has anxiety about being dropped off at any second Duke doesn't have an eating disorder and doesn't try to control everything cause chandler doesn't die Veronica isn't as cunning as before or as inconsequent as before, she's basically an extremely dumbed out version of veronica Jd isn't killing from trauma (movie) or from love (musical), just for psycopathy? But cant do that right? Ram isnt a raging douche and is victimized heavily Is Kurt there? Minorities have main roles but they're meant to be evil, which can be taken in a very bad way. But then again, even then who would wanna watch this? I tried to watch it and completely removing and relation it had to Heathers, to see if it got better. Nope. I wouldn't watch it as a reboot, I wouldn't watch it as an original, I wouldn't watch it for the representation, I wouldn't watch it for what it could be What an absolute shitshow.
I feel like this new Heathers pins J.D. as the typical "how a white dude who leans towards the MRA spectrum on Reddit sees himself" and The Heathers are how they see everyone on Tumblr.
show idea " the Karens" starring Karen, Karyn, and Kyryyyn... up to zaney heist not vaccinating their kids and posting Despicable Me memes in the year of our lord 2020... lets do this girls!
Wow, just, phenomenal review. I am actually blown away by how well worded, insightful, and thorough the review is. I feel like the rant in my head came to life. Definitely subscribing, can't wait to see more.
I feel like the failure of the reboot came from a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material and trying too many things at once. The original Heathers was all about the dangers of blind social conformity, the negative effects of trends, and even idolatry and how to successfully operate within a pecking order (notice that killing Heather C. doesn't actually fix anything, it just makes Heather D. take her place and JD work the system. The right thing to do is stand up to them like Veronica does at the end and remove their power over you). Now, I actually think a call-out/cancel culture angle could've worked very well in a narrative like this, because it deals with negative trends and blind social conformity, but they messed it up by having every single Heather be marginalized in someway. Now, I'm not saying that marginalized people can't be toxic (of course they can, anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. can be toxic/abusive/etc.) but it kind of sends the message that this is what minorities can/will do to gain power over everyone else instead of "this is what shitty people do to gain power". Honestly, I would totally be down for a black Heather Chandler or a lesbian Heather Duke, and they'd still be portrayed every bit as abusive as their 1989 counter parts, but there would need to be far less emphasis on their status as a minority than what was put in here. Their race or sexual orientation would just be another fact about them like their eye color or whatever. Honestly, I don't think they were trying to be conservative or liberal here, they were just trying to throw a bunch of trends at the wall and see what stuck (ironically, showing the negative effects of social trends). Then there's just the whole hot mess of Heather C. not even actually dying. I honestly don't understand how you have Heathers without Heather C. kicking the bucket, it's what sets the whole plot in motion and makes a statement on the whole "blind social conformity is not good" because people just start offing themselves for clout and because the queen bee did it. It also ruins the point that killing a dictator just makes another take their place. What you actually have to do is kill the system or at least its power over you. Phew, that was a lot longer than I intended, but as a big fan of the original 'Heathers', I needed to get it off my chest.
What she said about the one scene with JD trying to be like riverdale and American horror story was so accurate it brought me to tears, couldn’t have explained it better myself.
It looks to me like with the heathers themselves they’re really just trying to say “LUBRULS BAD!! Look at LIBRUL BULLY QUEERS! Ones even MAN LADY!!!!!!” It kind of ridiculous.
God bless your soul, my folks don't understand why I'm so angry about this show, i couldn't even get through a minute of the trailer without seeing red. They're supposed to be the stereotypical white rich girls, the football players are loud and obnoxious, Veronica is supposed to lose herself in JD and the come back into her morals, fix the mistake. How the hell are you even supposed to do heathers without Chandler dying?
"Blah blah blah. Look. Despite the box we checked on our college applications. My dear. We still end up worm food in that" (blah blah blah). Like seriously, he literally used periods instead of commas. What is up with that?
This movie reminds me of when people make troll blogs and the "other side" takes them 100% seriously. Like, this movie is "I found this blog that everyone says is a troll blog but its REAL and i have LOST FAITH in HUMANITY!" personified. It's sad.. Like, I'm all for PC commentary and callout culture commentary, but imo they just... started and ended in the wrong place. Not to mention that by having the Heathers be who they are theyre implying a position of power that these types of people dont really actually have except in very, VERY specific circumstances.
With pc and call out culture as prevalent as it is I wouldn’t even surprised if they were the “popular” kids In school. Do what I say or I’ll call you a sexist, transphobic racist all over social media is a surprisingly good tactic these days. So I guess maybe popular isn’t the correct terms as much feared. Since if you fall outside the pyramid of “protected” people/classes. You can’t really say no to them, especially if you care about your social media. I’ve seen it happen.
Lore Dragon Interesting situation, I never actually faced something like that. Most of minorities are still the main victims of bullying and people in schools (sometimes including the teacher) just don’t care about others attacking them for reasons like that. I’m not really sure about social media, but I’ve only seen only few students call outs that reached any further than outside friend’s group and they were mostly some more severe racism cases. That would be interesting if someone has created something with a message of not using your lower position as a way of manipulating others. Even from what I know from my experiences most of minorities are still facing bullying, violence and harassment on a large scale while stuff like anti-bullying programs don’t really like to address that or go deeper into cases of it
Lories Lori, I would disagree. Heather Chandler is the stereotype of the modern bully. In real life the action of this new Heather chandlers would be considered activism or protesting, not bullying. Teachers do nothing to stop this form of bullying. And I would argue that bullying is not inherently sexist, racist, homophobic... A bully will attack anyone period (although being anything but straight usually attracts the ire of the religious). If you are rich, white, and you are shy you can absolutely be bullied. I am not saying their life are not easier, but the bullying part is just as hard. Now I do not know where you are from, but anti-bullying programs in the school where I have been were -100% tolerance. Bullying like that thankfully is severely punished. The bullying tactics of this new Heather Chandler are borderline celebrated on social media. To come back to the show, the dialogue was bad, but I actually liked the social commentary. The teachers interpreting the "suicide" as a form of artistic protest actually made my sides hurt.
Agreed, although I did not see this in my school personally since I am from a country that isn't as much as a culture pot as America, but in social media, specifically on Twitter and Tumblr, lots of people get demonized for even having the slightest inclination of rightwing/conservative beliefs. I won't say their name for the sake of privacy, but just recently one of my favorite Kingdom Hearts fanartist disappeared from the face of social media for like a month now just cause they liked a Christian post in tumblr that people deemed as "homophobic". It is horrible, you cannot have a different opinion than these people. Sometimes I even feel like you are required to be a left extremist just so you could not get burned here in the internet. For me, it devalues their own creed of being "accepting", "open-minded", and "inclusive", and it disgusts me.
Lories Lori seriously? EVERYWHERE I look people are blaming white people for one thing or another. I’m not saying minorities don’t get bullied, I’m just saying white people are bullied especially over the internet just for their skin color (just like how minorities are bullied). Black kids seem to be harming white people a lot at my school, and nobody seems to ever do anything about it. Also, another thing, bullying against minorities have become SUCH a harmful thing even the smallest thing can be perceived as racist or sexist, etc. But if somebody is like that to a white person, people are fine with it. I agree with the lore dragon guy, people are sort of scared of offending them and looking like a "bully".
Actually Heather is an assigned male at birth genderqueer person.The other heather is a biracial lesbian and the other heather is a white girl who is plus sized hope this clears things up for you.
You could not have said this better. You see some meh 2018 Heathers reviews that were probably made in 2 minutes and just show clips contrasting scenes and some small talk, but you explained everything so well and really took apart every aspect of both the 2018 show and original Heathers. Love it.
"I wish your film was good."
"I wish Paramount understood."
"I wish they'd learned before, remakes aren't good anymore! "
"I wish you'd come with me."
"I wish we were renewed through season 3!"
“Hey, yo, stop this show, it’s not good at all!”
"you were meant to be good"
"Please don't let this be the only adaption that you will have"
"I can't watch another minute of this fucking shit"
That would be beautiful
Heather movie: check
Heather musical: check
Heather series: Did you eat a brain tumor for breakfast?
They ate a brain tumor, with a side of tumblr
The Heather reboot:
Me: Well, fuck me gently with a chain saw
With a side of drain cleaner, they did.
Sadly ironic because the og heather chandler died from brain tumor 😭 rest queen ❤️
@@divinity2306 oof
First, that girl can't play Heather Chandler, she just can't. Second, if Heather doesn't die, Veronica doesn't start dating JD. If they don't start dating, there's no murders. If Heather doesn't die, the movie doesn't even exist
Heather doesn’t actually die, lol
@@pockiiboba494 Heather Chandler does die in both the musical and the movie, but if you're talking about the remake lol yea she doesn't die
Oh, trust me, she starts dating JD in the reboot alright (albeit it's less because of Heather's death but more because she's suddenly a psychopath who's into guys that would make Christian Grey run for the hills- I wish I was joking).
@@acedetective9542 she doesn’t die lol
@@pockiiboba494 I mean, she does die in movie and the musical...
The only reboot to Heathers is Heathers: the Musical.
You can't change my mind.
I wont
@@lotus-eater same
I won't even try because I agree
Agreed. This is a ripoff.
At least the musical was GOOD.
The "lick it up, baby" scene from the original Heathers happened because Veronica refused to hook up with a guy at a party, and Heather Chandler was convinced it was absolutely necessary to stay popular.. and then Veronica puked on her because she was wasted. This entire party scene showed the audience that, while Heather was a mean popular girl, she was only really doing what she did because of the expectations put on her. Earlier in that scene, a guy practically forced her to go down on him, showing us that even she was subject to social pressures, forcing her to conform to all the stereotypes of the "popular girl" role, however much she detested it.
The "lick it up, baby" scene in Heathers the musical took place because Veronica refused to be passive- or complict, as the Heathers try to get her to be throughout Candy Store- in the bullying and torment of her best friend, and Heather Chandler takes it personally and essentially tells her that if she won't do this, she is kicked out of the Heathers and will have to go back to being bullied and ostracised. This scene is Veronica's breaking point- the moment she really realises what bad people the Heathers are, and decides to no longer play any part in it. It also implies that Chandler, Duke, and McNamara have had to make sacrifices to stay at the top, but they weren't as strong-willed, or inherently morally good as Veronica (or, they were children and desperately seeked the approval and adoration of their peers).
In this adaption's equivalent,, Heather calls out Ram for wearing a racist shirt,, and Veronica is pressed that she called him out? That's literally the opposite of what this scene was created for.
Rowan Boleyn 551 likes and no replies...dang
That was deep.
But yeah the new Heathers is terrible, they’ve missed the whole point of the musical and movie.
Do it right or not at all.
And I've always believe that the "lick it up,baby" was referring to the scene before that, the one with the guy forcing her to go down on him, maybe he said the same thing on different context and that's why it hits Chandler so much, maybe they were going to put that but decide that it was too much or just wanted to keep it simple and blurred
FeetSniffinPeet
Damn, that's good!
Except the series, fuck that shit.
This is context I did not know before, thanks for educating me.
When even illegal Heathers is better than the reboot
And even Riverdale Heathers...
Fleur deRosee yeah, something is legitimately worse than riverdale. that was deemed impossible until now.
@@acedv6134 There both trash, but Riverdale is way better than... This ?
It’s going too far to say the Riverdale was better
At least in illegal heathers we had Scarf Guy, Flemings, and Illegal Chandler
Remake Veronica looks more like a original Heather than an outcast (hope that made sense, it did in my head)
don’t worry it makes sense (at least to me)
That was essentially the point. This is a masturbatory fantasy for Conservatives to pretend that straight white athletic conventionally attractive people are the real victims of society and that overweight people, people of color and the LGBT community are the real oppressive bullies.
@@blixer8384 Or- the producers tried too hard to be "diverse" enough
@@isthisenne I think it's most likely what Emmett said
My Name Is Tim, That’s fair. I was just mostly adding the conversation. I understand where you’re coming from though.
W-W-W-W-Wait! Heather doesn’t die?! Isn’t that what gets the whole movie and musical going?! 🤦♀️
IT IS!! IT’S BASICALLY THE WHOLE PLOT PRETTY MUCH!!!
I DONT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE THINKING
Yeah it the whole plot point. 😂 But the idea of Heather (a lil popular bitch who uses everyone to gain popularity ) never dies. Somebody always takes the top spot. That's one of the messages of the original movie.
@@she7061 they weren't thinking. At all. 🤦🏽♀️ 🤣
Apparently, not only does Heather NOT die, she's the only one who LIVES.
Veronica looks more like a Heather than the actual Heathers...
Veronica should've been Heather M
IKR
And the heathers look more like someone they would make fun of…
That's the point!
Ok guys, let’s make heathers but twist, it’s not heathers. At all. We just call it heathers to get people to watch it. Genius!
Well fuck me gently with a chainsaw...
you figured out the secret plan.
Luckily the money never rolled in.
Isomer Mashups
Glad you remember that, lol
They did the same with Winx
"This JD couldn't convince me to wash the dishes let alone do a murder" I AM LAUGHING SO MUCH
lol
LMAO ITS ACCURATE THO
THIS IS HILARIOUS OMG LMFAO XD
LIKE LEGIT I CHOKED XDDD
the whole premise of martha’s character is that she was bullied for her weight. so if heather chandler is overweight, what’s martha’s point
EXACTLY THIS LIKE
she isn't in the series tho?
She was replaced by another girl (forgot her name), but she was bullied for being poor. Heather C. decided to represent suicide, selling "I am Suicide" labelled shirts at Westerburg.
That one girl couldn't afford it, so she took a random plain shirt she had and sharpied those words on. Everyone else were "representing suicide" by wearing the shirt, yet mocked the girl for her pathetic attempts to fit in (by not being able to afford actual stuff).
Like Martha, she's driven to a point of hating her own worth (because of how poor she is, and realising everyone else didn't actually give a shit about those suffering). She ends up in a wheelchair, and in episode 7, Heather actually tries befriending her after feeling bad.
Episode 5, the two of them get out of school similar to the ending of Movie Heathers - Heather walks by the wheelchaired girl along a corridor.
None, she doesn't exist.
@@hazyhope._. Brianna "Trailer" Parker.
So wait... Ram is suddenly a bullied kid and not the bully, and Heather chandler doesn't die? ........... WHAT?!
IKR
Klaus O'Shaunacey Ram ended up dying because Veronica was getting tired of JD not doing shit. Like wtf-
@@Holopug wtf, JD was supposed to be the bad wolf here, veronica just blindly followed him
yeah, a big part of musical (idk about the movie) was that ram and kurt were creeps ie the song blue
New heathers:
Not scared to add gay “Heather”
Also New heathers: is scared to kill off the most popular character that so happens to have a big massive change to the original source
like the fact they add a gay "heather" makes no sense to me at all, is that even addressed???? I mean I'm all for the LGBT+ community, but with this source material in that particular roll doesn't work!
Caitlin B i mean we have Kurt and ram so hehe 😶
@@curedreamfandubz4116 true, and that's fine, and I love how heathers the musical adds upon it. They also add to the plot.. having a gender-swapped Heather on the other hand is completely different.. like gender swap everyone if you're gunna do it, but just to add a random ass gay kid as a Heather is just so jarring.
C Bennett exactly like as a part of the lgbtqia community this is just offending
@@alyskramer5614 Yes, I agree, i'm gay myself and first of all this seems like a classic case of 'LoOk A gAy CharAcTeR wE'Re sO INclUsIvE' and also that Heather is a stereotype, not that gay guys like that are invalid, but I feel like every gay character in the media is that stereotypical guy. I would have loved if Heather Duke was a girl who was still in the closet and how she feels like she has to be straight because of how society works
My reaction to this parody is:
Dear diary,
WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Paulina AB heheheh
Why do they hate me
Why don't I fight back
Why do I act like such a creep?
WHYYYYYYYY
Some other points: They took out the color theory!??? UM??? EXCUSE ME??? I mean, yes, the Heathers did kind of wear their og colors, but it wasn't as obvious as it should have been. Although, considering how the characters were butchered, I suppose their colors wouldn't make sense anymore.
Heather C's red as a symbol of power is diluted
Heather D's green, a symbol of envy, is rather pointless, considering her complete lack of character in this adaptaion
Heather M's yellow, representing fear, makes no sense considering the way she (they?) behave(s)
Veronica's blue, for wit and intelligence, doesn't work if she's not being portrayed as...you know...intelligent.
JD's black was for deceit, anger/sadness, and lack of innocence, but this JD doesn't have a lot of character anyways.
They absolutely used the colors in those ways and not muted at all
The colours were such a key theme in the original, everything was amazing in the original. The remake... Is not
Did you just take that from a video that somebody made? I watched a video today that said exactly that
Im a year late but like im curious
Wow I never knew that. That's cool!
AAAAAAND JD DOES NOT HAVE A TRENCH COAT!!! ;-;
Heather _doesn't_ die???
*_Isn't that the point_*
HB FS yes that you for pointing that out
Yes. Yes it is.
Like... since she isn’t dead, won’t that mean she will go after JD and Veronica like hell on wheels for attempted murder and staging it as suicide?
Professional Blackpink and Little Mix enthusiast i love you
So nobody will se the me inside of her
She.
Said.
"Shut up, Heather."
To.
The.
Wrong.
Heather.
That’s like having JD fall in love with Macnamara instead. IT DOESNT WORK. 🤮
@@solarcowgirl in a smug way: why doesnt it work?
@@whyudoit4009 the "shut up Heather" is meant to represent how Heather Chandler is always putting down Duke. It makes you understand why Heather Duke wants to take Chandlers place as powerful queen after she dies.
@@A_swarm_of_bees you do know i was being sarcastic right, and I know this already.
@@whyudoit4009 oop sorry. Im a dumb piece of garbage
The actress that plays Heather Chandler is THIRTY YEARS OLD. So they may as well have gotten Evan Peters, who is only two years older, to be JD.
They might as well set the whole thing in fucking College.
@@meevins they might as well set the whole thing in space considering how much it has to do with the original
I loveeee Evan Peters! He played tons of Killlers in AHS, so he can fit the role
@LilMeowMeow Subliminals AAAAA YESSS
Well... if she looks the age, then I don’t see the problem. Paul Rudd is 50 years old, but he looks like a man in his 30s in Ant-Man.
not to mention that J.D. and even the Heathers were all very complex characters in the original: J.D. had issues bc his mom died, Heather Chandler was being objectified and sexualized which lowered her self-esteem, Ncmara had anxiety and was suicidal and Heather Duke had an eating disorder, as she is seen throwing up her food. Even if they are villains, it still shows that there’s a lot more to people then you think
Daniella de Kok THANK YOU
Daniella de Kok Each Heather had there own color too. The Peathers do wear those colors, but to me it seems less obvious. Which is bad in my opinion since each of the character's color represented their personality
(Ex: Chandler is red, red shows power, JD is black, black shows anger, isolation and darkness, Duke is green, green is associated with envy and Duke is envious of HC. Same with some other characters)
You totally got all of that from a different CZcams video that I also watched before this one.
stay gold or they just have a common opinion...
Copper Duan no it's exactly - word for word- what the person said in their video.
Peathers: We're the worst version of the Heathers!
Riverdale: Hold my croquet
Wannabememelordy101 nah peathers is worse
Peathers is worse, at least Riverdale heathers had some semblance of the characters and storyline, it’s just the songs that hurt all of us inside
A Stop Motion Channel facts
As much as I love to hate Riverdale, Peathers was so much worse. There was no redeeming qualities for Peathers
Nah, peathers is still worse
Re the racist tshirt scene: I can totally imagine them doing something where the popular girls twist some geeky kid's bumbling words to make it sound like they said something racist then threatening to post it online, that would be very Mean Girls and actually quite clever in the way it showed the possibility of social justice language being weaponised. But really, quite aside from the shirt being totes racist, in a universe where having a picture of yourself wearing it posted on twitter would ruin you, why the hell would you choose to wear it to school? It's dumb and makes no sense
I remember kids getting in trouble for wearing stuff to school back in the 2000s, but its definitely ramped up to crazy levels in the last few years due to social media and political divides. Just in the last year, three cases kids have had thousands of people bullying them online for wearing a trump shirt, or a pro wall shirt, or another case where a shirt said "killer" on it, I think the second kid got suspended from school. Anyway, when students take pictures and put these kids online to ridicule, there's people in the camp who think they deserve what they got for wearing those shirts, and there's people in the camp that wearing a shirt shouldn't get you lambasted online that its still bullying, but either way this movie was pretty trendy to go with the whole shirt story where someone is afraid of getting their picture put online for wearing a shirt, but they clearly didn't want to go the full way being currently relevant and opted out of any current day issues, instead going with an issue that a lot of high schools had 7 or 8 years ago, the whole native american mascot debate. If they had gone with an issue of today instead of a few years ago, the movie would have probably been too divisive as you literally can't tackle a current issue as the pepsi commercial shows, both sides will just hate you. Seems like both sides hated this movie anyway, so that minor plot decision was probably made in vain.
@@rydenhope3602 wah I saw someone get insulted for being extremely racist irl
@@QuikVidGuy what? where did I say this? I pretty clearly explained both sides, your ignoring half of what I said if that's what you extrapolated from my post.
@@QuikVidGuy not just someone. children.
imagine the dumbest things u did and thought as a kid broadcasted to the world via the internet, and those things attached thus attached to u forever - even tho u were at an age when godawful opinions were par for the course
and why do kids have these shitty opinions? quite likely, because their parents do. do u really wanna punish a child for simply believing in what they've been indoctrinated into believing?
i have a feeling that u do. if that is correct, then please dont reply, i'd really rather not hear u explain urself
I think the funniest thing about this thread is people literally did that thing you mentioned in these replies I’m.
In the OG heathers you can see that the heathers were still humans, heather chandler being objectified duke with her eating disorder and macknemera being suicidal. In this new one it’s another basic mean girls VS outcasts
How is being a whiny depressed teen more human?
@@learn2draw716 Because its people are like that
@@annyulain4320 I know. I was being an asshole that month.
LEARN2DRAW i can respect a person who admits to their mistakes
@@feef1699 right. This just made me laugh honestly
...the whole point of the heathers was that the heathers were "perfect" they were white and skinny, and we're desired by all because they were society's definition of perfect at the time, making it more "inclusive" ruins the whole point of them being so unrealistically perfect and popular
Frame so minorities can’t be considered “perfect and popular” remember this is set in modern day not 1989
ShonColle+ No. Not from our society’s standards. Of course not. A black girl is not considered aesthetic. A poor girl is not considered influential or cool. A lesbian is not considered desirable to half of the school (the boys), except maybe the ones who think they can ‘turn her straight,’ and it would be a stupid fucking tactic to have a minority play the ‘privileged, perfect members of polite society, top of the food chain’ AS BULLIES, because what kind of message would that send?
They’re called minorities for a reason. The Heathers are what society deems as the ‘perfect upper class women.’
- Which are straight (possibly bisexual), white, beautiful, feminine, preppy girls with rich parents.
@@kiera6326 "A lesbian is not considered desirable to half of the school (the boys)"
I find interesting how lesbians are treated depending on if they're "conventionally attractive or not".
If they are, their sexuality is treated as trying to get male attention.
If they're not, they're told that they only like women because they're too ugly to find a man.
Nuance may apply, but in general this is the most common scenario, sexuality that doesn't exist to appeal to men is treated as deviant.
Riley+ Exactly!! Women are treated almost entirely to do with their sexuality and sex appeal, even if it’s not intentional, and that starts right from teenage-hood. Even Heather Chandler (in the original), who is supposed to be very manipulative and influential and powerful, can only manipulate through sex and sociality. “Everyone wants me as a friend or a fuck.” Heather is the pinnacle of male desire, and the male desire is what girls aspire to be. This is the key to her popularity.
And in the end, she has no power, as we see her going down on her knees for the guy at the party. Sex is a powerful weapon, and Heather cares more about her image (how society sees her), than her own comfort, morals and sense of true self. If she didn’t portray the image she did, Heather would have no power in the school.
Exactly. Boys like a hot, feminine lesbian until they realise they ain’t gonna get to tap that because she genuinely is not attracted to them. Being bi is fine, because girl on girl action is such an old (hot) fantasy of the straight male. But God forbid he doesn’t get to participate in the threesome, or if she decides she wants to settle down with the chick rather than him. Coming out as ‘lesbian’ wouldn’t hurt Heather’s image really at all- in fact, it might even increase her popularity overnight. More guys would seek after her. She would only lose the popularity until she refused to suck whatever-his-name-was’s dick, and people started to realise that she wasn’t being cute or quirky, but serious. Then it’d be lost overnight.
ShonColle - a lot of the charm of the ORIGINAL story was how it played off its time. Just setting to story to modern day is kind of ruining it. Like, the musical version was a little more modern, but not "lol" kind of modern. The story is supposed to portray a stereotype. It's not only meant to cater to minorities smh
The reboot makes me want to die a second time.
Heather Chandler question why didn’t you check your cup
Heather Chandler DEAD. 😂
(Or undead like Peathers) 🙃
Heather Chandler ok.
How tf did a ghost get a CZcams Account?
Mason Climax
I possessed a computer.
if it ain't broke don't make a remake
hope but why would a movie producer make a remake of a bad or broke movie if there’s not guaranteed money to be made, I do hate modern remakes of old classics but there’s a reason to their madness
What a lovely Jacksfilms reference.
@@shelby1844 Oh.
Except for remaking Spyro. I'm excited to see that despite the old games being just fine.
Unfortunately, the business of show business is why they do it. But the best remakes are of films that were donr badly the first time or for other reasons are not so watchable now. Red Dragon, a remake of Manhunter, is one of my favorites. The original had a great story (adapted from a great book), but it was completely 80's in all the wrong ways. The remake was not too far below Silence of the Lambs, to which it served as a prequel.
I was really glad when they were remaking Planet of the Apes, but they didn't do a good job. Andy Serkis was great, but they lost all the brilliant social commentary of rhe original. I was hoping for them to just fix the massive plotholes caused by the fact that it wasn't planned in advance and the budget kept shrinking with every film, plus use more modern sensibilities and techniques. But that isn't what they did.
omg the best reboot plot would be veronicas daughter finding her mothers diary about her confessing to killing people (“my teenager angst bullshit has a body count”)/wanting heather chandler to die n such
That is the best idea for a reboot! Now i wish it was real...
𝚘𝚖𝚕 𝚖𝚢 𝚎𝚡𝚙𝚎𝚌𝚝𝚊𝚝𝚒𝚘𝚗𝚜 𝚑𝚊𝚟𝚎 𝚋𝚎𝚎𝚗 𝚙𝚞𝚝 𝚜𝚘 𝚑𝚒𝚐𝚑 𝚗𝚘𝚠..
fuCk i want that
You could even get Winona Ryder to play Veronica again, since the timing is right.
I remember seeing this thing on tumblr where it was basically like (I'm probably getting this wrong but you get the idea) "what if there was a Heathers sequel where Veronica's 4 year old daughter starts talking about her imaginary friend who wears a kimono and a red scrunchie and has a blue tongue and Veronica is like oh shit" and that just made me think of that
See your first mistake was assuming you were part of the target audience. The characters don't talk or dress like a real teenager because it's not targeted to real teenagers. It's targeted towards aliens with no concept of how human interactions work. They deserve entertainment too!
AHAHAHAHA that's fair; don't want to deprive Romulans of their entertainment...
true
oh god why am i just seeing this now
At first I thought this was going to be super condescending and rude. I was very pleasantly surprised
Much love to this comment!!
Actually they don't talk like actual teenagers because both the original and the series are satires, you see in the originals heather, j d and veronica don't talk like actual teenagers, take the lines 'do you wanna be part of the most powerful clique of the school" said by heather, no teenager says stuff like that, so the problem wasn't with the dialogue.....
Wait WHAT??? HEATHER CHANDLER LIVES??? DID THEY MISS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE FILM???
They missed more than that.
So the director was homeschooled... makes sense why it’s not realistic
Hey, I was homeschooled and I could write a show 10x better than this. The issue isnt that he was homeschooled, it’s that he is untalented
Chloe Davis I think it’s both
@@caseydavis57 true, the creator is untalented, but not going to high school and only experiencing via television and films definitely impacted their writing as well
Chloe Davis I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but I don’t really think you could. He might’ve done an awful job, but he is a professional and I’m assuming you’re not. And you’re both lacking experience so a person who actually went to a mainstream school would do a better job because they know what it’s actually like and have actually been through it.
i was homeschooled half my life and could do better
To me, the reboot seems like it was made mock younger generations.
nothing wrong with that per se, but almost 99% of the time old people try it, it's just whiny tonedeaf garbage with no sense of nuance
X : DC gen z heathers, Veronica has to stop heather m from eating tide pods in the bathroom
@@annonimooseq1246 fuck yes.
@@annonimooseq1246 "Oh please, Heather. Tide Pods are _so_ 2017."
God they aren’t even giving them the proper story. It’s Ike giving them the version of heathers that went through a wood chipper and they put it back together poorly with glue
when he director said "jd is the villain and the heathers aren't skinny white girls" I thought "oh cool so we're supposed to feel bad when they're killed and realise the danger of justifying anger against minorities right?"
I was so wrong. SO wrong.
it was seriously so long before I found someone whose explanation for hating it made sense
Macaroni and Cliches *realize
Macaroni and Cliches but true tho
Cereza G Realise is correct. Not everyone is American.
Macaroni and Cliches but JD was always portrayed like the villan in the movie, he's just a complex character with who you can empathize even if you agree that he's totally wrong and need therapy, just like Heathers, they're bitches, but hey they're humans too
This remake is just... urgh so disrespectful with the original resource, even the musical (that is not my favorite) is a better adaptation
It would be interesting if the heathers were pretty and white and Veronica was a POC and the show was a statement on how power corrupts.
One production of heathers the musical's used a plus sized WOC as Veronica. She'd didn't grasp Veronica's awkwardness and made her sassier in the beginning.
My problem with it was the portrayal of Martha. Martha is naive, the actress made her stupid.
Oo that would be a great modernization. and that could also lead to some commentary on like gentrification and/or preformative inclusivity. Damn now i really want to see that
@@desireeloveros1055 I kinda wanna see that production anyway. Do you have a link for me to watch it?
@@Quackervoltz
I would but can’t find it. Maybe acting against cancer? I found it on CZcams. They got a lot of hate for casting maybe they deleted it?
@@desireeloveros1055 Oh damn that sucks
Wait HEATHER DOESN'T DIE????!!! That literally defeats the purpose of heathers!
Edit: Woah, thank you so much for 4000 likes!!! 😄
AtFaith Value that's exactly what i said!!
Yeah
Exactly, it's supposed to be that Veronica gets herself into a series of murders and has to stop JD, but if the first murder doesn't happen the whole thing is ruined.
I saw the first ep and she did
AtFaith Value IKR
The criticizing callout culture angle could work if the writers were a little smarter about it.
The Heathers would still be privileged upper middle class white girls. Heather Chandler is the type of person who uses callout culture as a way to bully because she likes the rush of power it gives her, but she doesn’t really care about the causes she pretends to champion. Maybe she does things like lecture a mixed race student about their white-passing privilege or telling a bisexual student that they should “stay in their lane” when talking about lgbtq issues bc this student is dating someone of the opposite sex at the moment. Meanwhile her activism doesn’t go beyond just bullying others.
Heather Macnimera (sp?) is someone who does want to do more genuine activism, but since she follows Chandler and doesn’t rock the boat, she just goes along with it.
Heather Duke is a Chandler clone like in the original and is even worse when she becomes the main heather.
Veronica is someone who was duped into thinking Chandler was genuine about her causes but by the start of the show is starting to see Chandler’s faux activism for the bullying that it is.
Then DJ comes along and she gets taken in by his radical ideas until they turn deadly.
The whole message of the show could be about how doing bad things while hiding behind a mask of good intentions isn’t any different than doing bad things for the hell of it.
aacsmiles oml I love this. Please go be a screenwriter or something cuz you have talent
what an awesome concept!
Someone call Hollywood and hire this person
Spelling mistakes: *MacNamara and *JD. Also, this comment is the best.
Wow, thats actually interesting.
dear diary, WHYYYYYYY
movie: why do they hate me
fans: we need to fight back
characters: why do i act like such a freak
the director: why won’t they like me
everyone who was excited for it: why did i hate it
me after watching it: i feel like i should cry myself to sleep
the movie:
somebody like me!
somebody fix me!
somebody save me!
old heathers fans:
send me a sign god!
give me some hope here!
something to live for!
Voted best comment.
Seriously this should be pinned.
I love this. Best comment
Sharn Peacock thanks aw😂
I actually sang this out load, this was pretty cool.
~ And you know, you know, you know- THIS CANT BE BEAUTIFUL!! ~
(Seriously, what was going through their heads)
Cthulhu deserves the red scrunchy
Best Heather
Sarah Z I did not see that Cthulhu reference coming but it would make an excellent twist
Cthulhu is like this show since you'll immediately be mad after looking at it for 5 seconds
Carly Brownell hell no.
Carly Brownell
YES
tbh like, if they picked a black actress (or other racial minority) to play heather mcnamara because they were the best actress, it would've been fine. the character would still need to come from a privileged background tho and be a terrible human being, but since heather mcnamara is one of the more human heathers and only acts like that bc she wants to survive, her being black would actually be great for her storyline (like, how she is already looked down on by society, but she joins the heathers so everyone sees her in this new spotlight and she starts being more and more ignorant and mean than she actually is). but now they just chose these actors and actresses BECAUSE they're a minority, which completely misses the point of heathers... ugh idk, it's all so confusing
To be honest I think people shpuld strafe away from the constant victimised Minority character type. To make progress means to have change. And I am not saying certain minority groups aren't pushed down, I am well aware that in various places even in some states of america still people of colour are still being given less equal chances. But making POC's constant victims of society in media kinda puts you in a self defeatist pessimistic loop, I think minoirty characters should stop being written like minorities and instead just like any other character, the same reason, same goes for autistic characters.
Exactly if they wanted to make the heathers minority GRAET But dont make their minority their whole character
Annalee Higley yes, except the whole point of the heathers is the fact that the heathers are privledged. making them “minorities” ruins the whole concept.
Well unfortunately, casters, directors, and producers are incapable of picking a non-white or non-straight (or sometimes non male) role without it being part of some cynical plan. This idea that they would think a black female actor just happen to fit and were open "to all races" without it being a thing they were going for originally (probably cynically) is a fantasy. If you really want them to stop being shallow and surface-level, you're going to have to get different sorts of people in those positions of power (and that just is not going to happen )OR if you happen to have a lot of the creatives as gay or black or whatever - but then the company paying the bills will (most of the time, not all - I don't think Queer as Folk has problems with being forced to have straight characters, for example) will mandate some straight or white people to "increase the audience protentional" and then you have minorities picking majorities under similarly shallow setup.
In the West End Heathers (at least when I saw it) Heather Duke was portrayed by a black actress, but it didn't make a difference to how they portrayed her bc she was still a rich popular kid
"The musical goes through further lengths to show him as a damaged character."
I AM DAMAGED
FAR TOO DMAGED
Nightshifter we are far beyond repair
@@honeyart4988 Stick around here
@@rjsmiley4872 make things better
@@jormungarden5816 Cuz you beat me fair and square
@@sophiebarnes9100 Don't know what this thing could do...
Heather Chandler doesn't die but the whole point of heathers was having suicide glorified and turned into something popular kids did. then JD was going to use this as a way to get away with murder by explonding the school and make it look like a massive suicide because he trick the whole school into signing their names on a questionare. did they take out JD's mom suicide and his abusive father too. also Heather Chandler dying was so important because in the end veronica feels guilty and she finally sees JD for the person he truly is after they kill ram and kirt.
*clap* *clap*
And you can see Veronica go crazy as she imagines that she's actually talking to Heather while she's dead due to her guilt
prowlandsasuke JD’s mom killed herself in the beginning I believe
Didnt jd's dad blow her up in the library though? Or did they change that in the movie from the musical?
Harley Quinn well in the movie jds mom left him in the car and purposely went into the building his dad was blowing up. jd also said his mother looked right at him as the building blew up.
Why do they talk about corn nuts so much in this adaptation. Sure it’s the last thing Heather Chandler said when she died in the original but it wasn’t super important. It seems like they’re trying to shove it in our faces that “ITS HEATHERS!”
Oh is THAT why they added all the corn nut stuff? I was so confused why there were making a point about that. I forgot that that was what Heather said before she died
School shooting = touchy subject.
Drugs = same
Sex = same
You can’t do the same as the 80s.
Omg I’ve spent this whole time thinking that she said “You’re nuts!” Why did she say corn nuts? Seems pretty random
IKR
This makes Riverdale look like a gift from good
Does this make the show a gift from evil? Probably yes
Indeed
As a skinny, blonde white kid I want to calm down all the conservatives: We don't need your protection. We are doing fine. Go back to making movies showing a problem that actually exists, cause I don't see people geting shamed over not being fat, white or LGBT in my school anytime soon.
I want my privileged, human Heathers back goddamit.
oof _iconic_ comment
Well I get made fun of for being too skinny but other than that, I give this comment an award
uh what? people get shamed for being skinny all the time, people get shamed for being white, and people get shamed for being straight.
@@doclinny way, way less than poc, plus size and lgbt+ people
I literally got shamed for breathing. No jk
They took out everything that made the movie great? Everything looks shit about it. Literally everything.
gabrielle.s it’s true, the whole movie looks cheap.
They actually have ten episodes and they do a great job and giving you delicious easteggs all the way through. Every time you see and hear one was really fun
“Veronica is an interesting character”
*Plays video clip from Dead Girl Walking*
I mean Dead Girl Walking was certainly interesting.
@@jeaddhist very... Interesting
👁️_👁️
👁0👁
@@lannaxoxo how very
honestly they could have done the "gone-too-far callout culture" angle much better if the characters... were NOT diverse. usually the worst offenders of that kind of behaviour are over-performative allies for whatever cause they're on. maybe if our POV character (also non-diverse) saw that they were hurting people's genuine complaints by over reacting to tiny things and that's why she initially felt somewhat justified going along with JD... then realised that she'd essentially been complicit in the exact same thing but with murder??
Idk it's messy to go with that angle either way, heathers works better as a privileged group who bully those who are different imo
seriously, if you're gonna change everything about a well loved classic JUST MAKE YOUR OWN DAMN SHOW
Kebabs AintSatan this is what it feels like when SJWs need to feminize and PC everything.
LMGunslinger cool
LMGunslinger why are u like this
i think they sorta knew it was gonna suck so they just slapped a classic's name on it to get few extra buck.
Kebabs AintSatan but that, wouldn’t rake up enough money...
It’s kind of hilarious what adults think “youth culture”/public school is like, as someone that these pieces of media are theoretically representing...? Like, it’s almost comical how TV high schools will super accepting (or *too* accepting, like in this case) and then you go to school and some people’s every other word is a slur. (And I live in a relatively left-leaning/progressive area, too).
People make fun of you for being skinny and fat so which isn’t society should I be fricken skinny or fat!!!!
I'm sorry
Where's Martha?
Martha Dunnstock?
The best character???
Did they just
Cut Martha out?
Mizikii I think because Heather C can't call her fat anymore
Robynn I know, unfortunately... I just wish they could keep her in--
Mizikii i wish they just made their own show honestly
@@mizikii6325 she's heather chandler now
The original Martha was chubby too and her name was Betty,
and they made her skinny, wear glasses and black-haired
*what the actual fuck*
Making the Heather's marginalized people, and Veronica a pretty straight white girl is the good guy.
Did they think this through?
Oh, they did alright. They reaaaaally thought they were making some epic point about da Es Jay Doubleyous.
it’s like a genderbent prequel to the book “trigger warning”
Heathers needs an education
Omg so true haha
I can't even remember who wrote that book because it was such an overused catchphrase
My whole body cringed when he said my dear 😳😬🤢
legit my voice is as emotionless as it gets but i could've done better than that
It's like we're archeologists, digging up an ancient, alien cringe compilation based off of humans' work
S a m e it sounded more like a thread
I cringed anytime he said anything
Ugh the poor Heathers fandom.......
Illegal Heathers and now this
{ paiige } atleast illegal heathers is good to laugh at
Yeah
At least Illegal Heathers is entertaining and hilarious (and Heather C is the best part)
At least Illegal Heathers follows the actual story
Illegal Heathers?
We already have a modern Heathers - Mean Girls. It's not as good as OG Heathers imo, but it's still pretty good on its own. This remake is completely irrelevant.
Ikr tthey are both diffferent, but good
Dear diary, We shouldve gotten a movie version of the musical with the first musical cast....
Im also writing this on my two copies of my kungfu panda 2 dvd-
So late to this party but i want a reboot where veronica is manipulating jd and is super ok with all the murder, i have it all written out in my head lmao hollywoods hmu
@@marquisdarling7969 lol that'd be pretty cool
I just wanna see barrett wilbert-weed belt in hd is that too much to ask
Lmaooo same
I like the Vine reference
What we REALLY NEED is a HEATHERS: The Musical film adaptation.
LeviathanSpeaks1469 YESSSS
Yes yes yes
THE REAL TEA
Y E S
With the oringinal broadway cast that would beautiful :3
Heather Chandler in this one reminds me of how Martha was mentioned in Candy Store.
"If she had your shot, SHE WOULD LEAVE YOU TO ROT!"
That this might be what Martha Dunstock would have been in a very very very very very very very very very very vvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy distant alternate universe where Chandler never existed.
It actually would have made a lot of sense having the woman who played Chandler be Veronica. In the musical I always wondered why Veronica was unpopular because she was just a makeover away from perfection like basically all makeover movies.
@@JasminMiettunen I think the context behind Veronica's and Chandler's relationship in the musical kinda got lost because in the original movie, Veronica was already part of Heathers' clique and was childhood best friends with Chandler. She only got to befriend Martha by the end of the movie. I would understand why they made those choices in the musical stage because directing for that is different and would require them to fit everything in while making it work for the stage production.
invisibleninjandy I wondered why I didn’t remember the scene when I first heard the song Beautiful from the musical! It had been a while since I saw the movie, but I did think something was off, lmao
@@invisibleninjandy
Wasn't she childhood friends with Betty?
@@morbidsearchCorrect Veronica was also childhood friends with Betty aswell I believe, but in the musical Betty doesn’t exist and is replaced with Martha Dunnstock, (in the musical some of Betty’s personality traits were given to Martha in the musical version) However in the movie Betty, or better known, Betty Fin and Martha Dunnstock are two different people. In the movie, Betty isn’t as relevant to the plot as Martha though-
"UGG boot latte." I will find a way to use this someday.
honestly I feel like it's more of an insult to the person saying it than the person they're saying it too...it's just that bad XD
exactly "Bitch more basic than an Ugg Boot Latte"
Nite Lights I call basic bitches ugg boot lattes.
Challenge accepted!
+Cristina D :)
This video had more editing skills and a 10x more talent than the heathers show.
I saw a clip,
Kurt
Isn't
The
Dude
We
Know
Now he likes heather duke, he's bi now i guess(pan?)
And apparently, he was a good dude
Uhm-
I'm scared
HEATHER C. LITERALLY SAYS SHUT UP TO THE WRONG HEATHER I-
@@Octoweaponry I once read a fanfic and he was nice and I thought that was impossible until this happened
"just get Evan Peters to play JD you cowards" a mood 😂
I think that making the Heathers minorities could have been a great idea if they had used their being different as a chance to explore the reasons why they became bullies in the first place (after all, both in the movie and the musicals there are many moments in which we are able to see their insecurities and personal issues) instead of going for this ridiculously forced "SJW" plot. It's a wasted opportunity in my opinion.
As you said, a horrible person is still a human being and their actions always have, if not a justification, at least an explanation behind them. Exploring that would've made this show much more interesting and believable.
Cali Lovett yup
Not even the SJW's like this show.
Cali Lovett it doesn’t even make sense. making the antagonists the only diverse characters? “oh no! us straight, white, cis people are so attacked by other people”
it doesn’t make sense.
Heather D was Asian in one of the musicals, and that didn’t change anything except she exploited heather C’s death in multiple different languages.
I could buy the Heathers being minorities as long as their still young, attractive, privileged, and shallow. I could buy Heather D being asian and Heather M being black but making Heather C fat is a tall order.
Riverdale: We are the worst version of Heathers
Peathers: Hold my script
"The only character I'm rooting for in this is Cthulu."
There's a good way to do a Heathers reboot. I'm not completely against it, Heathers is timeless it's kinda like Shakespeare. It doesn't need to take place in the era it was written in order to work. However there is a way to fuck it up and this reboot it how.
i mean seriously, i recently played egeus in a midsummer night's dream, and it was set in the 1960s. It turned out pretty well, actually. Though of course all we did was changed the costume, props, and set a bit, the script itself wasn't touched.
This whole thing makes me want to vomit even more.
Shut up Heather
Grow up, Heather. Bulimia is so 87.
I wanna make a joke but honestly I’d rather watch someone throw up then this reboot
Shut up Heather!
@Dakota malster-wilson that was for Chandler 😬
I've read Heather's fanfiction better than this show. x)
thats not really that much of an indictment as it was back in the day, seeing as there's so much entertaining, faithful, creative fan content being made while the official continuation of a series sucks
@@louschwick7301 honestly i've even seen good fan works for pieces of media that are good already. My favorite example is the works of nekomotherfuker on wattpad, her MCU fanfiction is genuinely amazing considering it falls under the "X Reader" genre.
In a weird way, the people involved in making this show completely misunderstanding youths is the only real reference to the original Heathers.
Based on what I've read of the creators' commentary, I have what I think is a fairly cogent theory as to what their intent may have been. Simply, they wanted to adapt Heathers for its popularity, felt it might not resonate if the social context wasn't updated, then decided to base their update on whatever they could find that seemed to be popular with the 'youth of today.' They lifted social justice culture out of context because they simply pegged it as "what's popular with high school kids nowadays," and so assumed by extension that it would become the natural weapon of the popular over the unpopular. They then dovetailed that with their own perceptions of social justice culture run amok in the larger world and called it a day.
Heathers 2018 was created for an imagined, even projected demographic of 'average' modern high-schoolers who were supposedly waiting for cultural emancipation from SJWs. By failing to understand that social justice controversies are separate from the general ebb and flow of purely aesthetic or trite behavioural trends, the creators shot themselves in the foot and alienated every possible target demographic. One doesn't need to hold any particular opinion on the issues this show (mis)handles to see agree that it failed utterly in its goal.
When I originally heard that there was going to be a Heathers' tv show, I thought it would be following their children for some reason. Something along the lines of Duke's child learning their mother was a vicious bully, McNamara's learning that their mom dealt with the same kind of crippling social anxiety they did, and Martha's child learning why their mother isn't so keen on spending time with people from her time in Westerburg. Most of all, Veronica's child accidentally discovering the fact that their mom killed three people (and maybe a question as to who their father really is...). Needless to say, I was stoked.
Then the trailer hit.
I knew immediately that this story I had imagined was only in the fandom and not hte board room. Showed my roommate who also loves Heathers the same trailer and she just kept repeating "What?"
Based on your review, we really have no need to see it. Thanks for the public service, Sarah.
Hailey Vance OH MY GOD I LOVE THIS CONCEPT
Starsong mp3 Thank you! ^///^
Hailey Vance You should seriously tell someone about this to make a fic it's got really good potential
Starsong mp3 It would be really cool if well written...
Hmm..
MAKE THAT A SERIES-
Also Heather being mean to Ram makes no sense, considering that in the original there are the top boys of the school and on one stand with the heathers and the love interest heather has chosen for them. So there are a clique more than enemies. God this show seems awful!
I remember when I was complaining about this series to some friends, I had this idea that it would be absolutely genius if they had the Heathers being like, the "socially acceptable" version of whatever their minority group is. Like, Chandler is fat, but more Meghan Trainor than Mary Lambert, McNamara is light-skinned black with straight hair, and Duke basically stays the same because "yaaas gay queen". Maybe Veronica is a femme lesbian because butches are scary. But like, Martha (who is completely missing from Peathers for some reason?) looks more like she did in the original movie and still gets bullied. Instead of creating a narrative that standing up for minority groups is somehow bad, it instead creates a narrative that society only perceives this as bad when the minority group in discussion isn't threatening or ugly to them. People feel like they're good, but are still racist, fatphobic, transphobic, what have you. And the Heathers themselves don't really care because high school survival instinct dictates that they're basically protected and shouldn't throw that away even at the expense of human decency. They should've hired me.
The biggest issue I noticed from the start was how they were trying to bring it into the modern social environment. For me, Heathers is all about the 80s suburban feel. It's the extremely conservative and uncaring vibe (which might not really fly well in current media anyways) that pulled me in from the start. Now, sure, you maybe could create a Heathers movie or series in the modern day that's engaging and handles its characters well, but the very blatant "popular alpha bitch" trope is what had me hooked. She wasn't popular because of a body positive gimmick; she just had the money and looks and just WAS popular.
I think that's why the musical works so well too. It's only a few years old but it kept the period and simply updated a few details to make things a little more relevant for today. Heathers only exists because of the brat pack films and I think it would be incredibly difficult to make any semblance of a coherent adaptation in another time.
And do high schools even work like that anymore? Can we move on from Mean Girls wannabes please? High schools cannot be so boring that we are working off tropes which are decades old.
You know what kids in my school actually get made fun of from?
-Being weebs.
-Harry Potter ships.
-I wouldn’t say lgbt because I’ve been open about it from middle school and everyone except my close friends just get super confused and don’t talk to me? Maybe that’s my problem.
-showing any signs of mental illness if you’re not super attractive and popular
-openly meming
-talent because jealousy I think
And being quiet and a loner. At least that's the case in my school
WHAT.THE.HELL. In my high school (well more precisely gymnasium) everyone is chill and there are many people like this that are open and share their interests to others (like me, I like anime and I'm really good at drawing, I don't see a reason why that should be a problem to other people), not to mention that I live in Croatia, which is viewed as a bad, poor and anti-gay country etc., it's utter bullshit. There is a trans girl who is also gay in our school and everyone is chill about it, she's loved for her unique personality and style. The only difference is that we don't have many people of different race (though they are steadily coming here) so I can't really say how we handle that stuff, but we have a LOT of gypsy people and some asians or africans here or there. Everyone loves to see different people, because we can learn many things from them (unless you're just here to suck out our money for the social minoritys). So I'm sorry that you're in that kind of surronding and I guarantee you that once you'll move to college everything will go for the better.
We have a lot of disgusting group of people in our batch so it's quite normal for each of us to not mind each other's business but sometimes they still make fun of that one kid who is quite and usually eats with the teacher during lunch time. It's quite sad tho
damm, my school just has the noraml, wanting highschool to be over already kids which is 95% of the school and then theirs that 5%, the weird batch of kids that try too hard to be "cool" and funny which we just straight up ignore since
in my school, you only get made fun of:
• if you say something stupid
• if you do something stupid
• if you wear something stupid
the only exception is if it's funny. even the popular people get put on blast - they're teased _more,_ even.
In the original movie and the musical they call Martha Dunstock "Martha Dumptruck"
It doesn't make sense to have one of the Heather's overweight when they make fun of another girl for being overweight.
They basically riverdaled Heathers
Soooo
No martha cause cant bully her for being chubby cause chandler is chubby
Chandler is mean for the sake of being mean instead of cunning and using people for her own gain not to mention she doesn't even die
McNamera(?) isn't suicidal and has anxiety about being dropped off at any second
Duke doesn't have an eating disorder and doesn't try to control everything cause chandler doesn't die
Veronica isn't as cunning as before or as inconsequent as before, she's basically an extremely dumbed out version of veronica
Jd isn't killing from trauma (movie) or from love (musical), just for psycopathy? But cant do that right?
Ram isnt a raging douche and is victimized heavily
Is Kurt there?
Minorities have main roles but they're meant to be evil, which can be taken in a very bad way. But then again, even then who would wanna watch this?
I tried to watch it and completely removing and relation it had to Heathers, to see if it got better.
Nope. I wouldn't watch it as a reboot, I wouldn't watch it as an original, I wouldn't watch it for the representation, I wouldn't watch it for what it could be
What an absolute shitshow.
* heather doesn’t die during suicide*
Paramount: WE PAYED FOR THE WHOLE GAY ACTOR WERE GONNA USE THE WHOLE GAY ACTOR
Percy Jackson Books = Heathers
Percy Jackson Moies = Pheathers
ACCURATE
YEAH R. I. G. H. T.
Yep
The Lightning Thief Musical = Heathers the Musical
Yes. It exists. Look it up.
Edit: okay so apparently nobody likes the TLT Musical... I do though...
Y-U-P
I feel like this new Heathers pins J.D. as the typical "how a white dude who leans towards the MRA spectrum on Reddit sees himself" and The Heathers are how they see everyone on Tumblr.
Theyre trying to do that thing where they insult "both sides" without really understanding what either side IS
Nailed it
*THIS*
I read it as "EVERYTHING WRONG WITH 2018 HEATERS" and i thought wait wtf
I left my clothes on the 2018 make of heaters to dry and they caught fire! I want to speak to the manager!
we all know 2016 heaters were the best 🙄
Gosh dang 2018 heaters, always breaking down in the middle of winter! Honestly, the one good thing about 2020 is that the heaters at least _work._
I wish Cthulu was in every movie
Cthulu is great
JD should be Cthulu
The Heathers should be Cthulu
Veronica should be Cthulu
Cthulu is great
Praise to our wonderful God of the deep!🐙🐙
Ph'tygn ph'tygn ya Cthulhu
Y e s
Our lord Cthulu
Finally, someone is talking sense around here.
Finally someone with commonsense!
I have one thing to say
*Why Is Veronica Blonde*
Gamer with depression I was thinking the same thing
IKR
The new Veronica looks more like either Heather C or Heather M tbh
show idea " the Karens" starring Karen, Karyn, and Kyryyyn... up to zaney heist not vaccinating their kids and posting Despicable Me memes in the year of our lord 2020... lets do this girls!
100% thought Peathers was a typo.
Wow, just, phenomenal review. I am actually blown away by how well worded, insightful, and thorough the review is. I feel like the rant in my head came to life. Definitely subscribing, can't wait to see more.
I feel like the failure of the reboot came from a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material and trying too many things at once. The original Heathers was all about the dangers of blind social conformity, the negative effects of trends, and even idolatry and how to successfully operate within a pecking order (notice that killing Heather C. doesn't actually fix anything, it just makes Heather D. take her place and JD work the system. The right thing to do is stand up to them like Veronica does at the end and remove their power over you). Now, I actually think a call-out/cancel culture angle could've worked very well in a narrative like this, because it deals with negative trends and blind social conformity, but they messed it up by having every single Heather be marginalized in someway. Now, I'm not saying that marginalized people can't be toxic (of course they can, anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. can be toxic/abusive/etc.) but it kind of sends the message that this is what minorities can/will do to gain power over everyone else instead of "this is what shitty people do to gain power". Honestly, I would totally be down for a black Heather Chandler or a lesbian Heather Duke, and they'd still be portrayed every bit as abusive as their 1989 counter parts, but there would need to be far less emphasis on their status as a minority than what was put in here. Their race or sexual orientation would just be another fact about them like their eye color or whatever. Honestly, I don't think they were trying to be conservative or liberal here, they were just trying to throw a bunch of trends at the wall and see what stuck (ironically, showing the negative effects of social trends).
Then there's just the whole hot mess of Heather C. not even actually dying. I honestly don't understand how you have Heathers without Heather C. kicking the bucket, it's what sets the whole plot in motion and makes a statement on the whole "blind social conformity is not good" because people just start offing themselves for clout and because the queen bee did it. It also ruins the point that killing a dictator just makes another take their place. What you actually have to do is kill the system or at least its power over you. Phew, that was a lot longer than I intended, but as a big fan of the original 'Heathers', I needed to get it off my chest.
What she said about the one scene with JD trying to be like riverdale and American horror story was so accurate it brought me to tears, couldn’t have explained it better myself.
Already better than CinemaSins
that's not particularly hard
Sarah Z Oof shade
It looks to me like with the heathers themselves they’re really just trying to say “LUBRULS BAD!! Look at LIBRUL BULLY QUEERS! Ones even MAN LADY!!!!!!”
It kind of ridiculous.
"betty finn, no relation to the original betty finn" me: ... what, why why would you do that
God bless your soul, my folks don't understand why I'm so angry about this show, i couldn't even get through a minute of the trailer without seeing red. They're supposed to be the stereotypical white rich girls, the football players are loud and obnoxious, Veronica is supposed to lose herself in JD and the come back into her morals, fix the mistake. How the hell are you even supposed to do heathers without Chandler dying?
Receding Space football players who are loud and obnoxious
*and literal rapists
just thought we shouldn't forget that one
Heather macnamara kills herself for real in the second episode. Which is good because heather chandler is a far more entertaining antagonist
As a high schooler un 2019, this show couldn't be farther off from reality, and as a long time Heather's fan, this show is just plain bad.
"Blah blah blah. Look. Despite the box we checked on our college applications. My dear. We still end up worm food in that" (blah blah blah). Like seriously, he literally used periods instead of commas. What is up with that?
Silver Cyndaquil It’s like listening a person on Xanax trying to do a poetry slam.
Maybe that's how it was written on the script?
This movie reminds me of when people make troll blogs and the "other side" takes them 100% seriously. Like, this movie is "I found this blog that everyone says is a troll blog but its REAL and i have LOST FAITH in HUMANITY!" personified. It's sad.. Like, I'm all for PC commentary and callout culture commentary, but imo they just... started and ended in the wrong place.
Not to mention that by having the Heathers be who they are theyre implying a position of power that these types of people dont really actually have except in very, VERY specific circumstances.
With pc and call out culture as prevalent as it is I wouldn’t even surprised if they were the “popular” kids In school. Do what I say or I’ll call you a sexist, transphobic racist all over social media is a surprisingly good tactic these days. So I guess maybe popular isn’t the correct terms as much feared. Since if you fall outside the pyramid of “protected” people/classes. You can’t really say no to them, especially if you care about your social media. I’ve seen it happen.
Lore Dragon Interesting situation, I never actually faced something like that. Most of minorities are still the main victims of bullying and people in schools (sometimes including the teacher) just don’t care about others attacking them for reasons like that. I’m not really sure about social media, but I’ve only seen only few students call outs that reached any further than outside friend’s group and they were mostly some more severe racism cases. That would be interesting if someone has created something with a message of not using your lower position as a way of manipulating others. Even from what I know from my experiences most of minorities are still facing bullying, violence and harassment on a large scale while stuff like anti-bullying programs don’t really like to address that or go deeper into cases of it
Lories Lori, I would disagree. Heather Chandler is the stereotype of the modern bully. In real life the action of this new Heather chandlers would be considered activism or protesting, not bullying. Teachers do nothing to stop this form of bullying. And I would argue that bullying is not inherently sexist, racist, homophobic... A bully will attack anyone period (although being anything but straight usually attracts the ire of the religious). If you are rich, white, and you are shy you can absolutely be bullied. I am not saying their life are not easier, but the bullying part is just as hard. Now I do not know where you are from, but anti-bullying programs in the school where I have been were -100% tolerance. Bullying like that thankfully is severely punished. The bullying tactics of this new Heather Chandler are borderline celebrated on social media.
To come back to the show, the dialogue was bad, but I actually liked the social commentary. The teachers interpreting the "suicide" as a form of artistic protest actually made my sides hurt.
Agreed, although I did not see this in my school personally since I am from a country that isn't as much as a culture pot as America, but in social media, specifically on Twitter and Tumblr, lots of people get demonized for even having the slightest inclination of rightwing/conservative beliefs. I won't say their name for the sake of privacy, but just recently one of my favorite Kingdom Hearts fanartist disappeared from the face of social media for like a month now just cause they liked a Christian post in tumblr that people deemed as "homophobic". It is horrible, you cannot have a different opinion than these people. Sometimes I even feel like you are required to be a left extremist just so you could not get burned here in the internet. For me, it devalues their own creed of being "accepting", "open-minded", and "inclusive", and it disgusts me.
Lories Lori seriously? EVERYWHERE I look people are blaming white people for one thing or another. I’m not saying minorities don’t get bullied, I’m just saying white people are bullied especially over the internet just for their skin color (just like how minorities are bullied). Black kids seem to be harming white people a lot at my school, and nobody seems to ever do anything about it. Also, another thing, bullying against minorities have become SUCH a harmful thing even the smallest thing can be perceived as racist or sexist, etc. But if somebody is like that to a white person, people are fine with it. I agree with the lore dragon guy, people are sort of scared of offending them and looking like a "bully".
It's sad how they didn't bring out the character's colors that often, and I just don't get why they had to make Heather duke a guy
WHAT jesus frikkkkk god, I think I'm ready for hell NOW
i think duke is a trans girl???
Actually Heather is an assigned male at birth genderqueer person.The other heather is a biracial lesbian and the other heather is a white girl who is plus sized hope this clears things up for you.
You could not have said this better. You see some meh 2018 Heathers reviews that were probably made in 2 minutes and just show clips contrasting scenes and some small talk, but you explained everything so well and really took apart every aspect of both the 2018 show and original Heathers. Love it.
#notmyheathers
I hated Veronica in the reboot
*don't fight me*
YES, SOMEONE AGREES
I liked her, she was a good villain
I didn't even know there was a reboot and now I'm so confused as to how they missed the point that bad
Nobody will 🙄