"Fergie’s petrol was anger" | Gordon Strachan's Greatest Managers

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  • čas přidán 29. 04. 2024
  • This week’s guest joining Jeff Stelling is the former Coventry, Celtic and Scotland manager Gordon Strachan. They look back on his career as a player with Aberdeen, Manchester United and Leeds United and he gives us plenty of stories about managerial legends like Sir Alex Ferguson, Jock Stein, Howard Wilkinson and Ron Atkinson including:
    • how Fergie scared the Aberdeen players into winning
    • why Jock Stein could be brutal with his own players
    • whether Big Ron really had a sunbed at the training ground
    Gordon also recalls when Fergie banned the players wives from the team bus after a Scottish Cup Final win, the time he and a team-mate dared to ask the great man for a transfer and why winning promotion with Leeds was so special.
    He also explains why managing Celtic or Rangers is the biggest test you can face as a manager, how he dealt with difficult characters in his Scotland squads, facing the brilliant Brazil team at the 1982 World Cup and the trip to Tenerife where he ended up in a lookalike competition…as himself.
    Football's Greatest is a Folding Pocket Production with BBC Studios.
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Komentáře • 140

  • @theinfernomaster8826
    @theinfernomaster8826 Před 19 dny +13

    I can't speak highly enough of Mr Strachan, as a Celtic fan he gave me the time of my life on our champions league journeys...my favourite Celtic manager.

    • @matthewdoyle3877
      @matthewdoyle3877 Před 16 dny

      Scottish farmers league, your Champions League Journeys, lol, you didnt even make last EIGHT you fool

  • @lubo25
    @lubo25 Před 22 dny +12

    Strachan was a supremely intelligent player.

  • @deanfoster1158
    @deanfoster1158 Před 23 dny +11

    My favourite Leeds player of the last 50 years. His contribution to Leeds' success of that era was unparalleled, he was such a great player and captain. Halcyon days indeed

  • @alec1113
    @alec1113 Před 9 dny +2

    We were brought up in muirhouse , and what you see with Gordon is what you get , straight to the point . Good man .

  • @jimmorrison8203
    @jimmorrison8203 Před 24 dny +21

    When Leeds won the top flight league, Gordon Strachan was the best and most consistent right winger in the country. He was incredible for Coventry also. A very underrated footballer.

    • @Paul-po5om
      @Paul-po5om Před 23 dny +2

      Strachan was a terrific player

    • @gazzaboy2531977
      @gazzaboy2531977 Před 22 dny +1

      Underated 😊

    • @derekking5386
      @derekking5386 Před 14 dny +1

      Great player at aberdeen, caused celtic all sorts of problems on the pitch

    • @jimmorrison8203
      @jimmorrison8203 Před 14 dny +2

      @@derekking5386
      He was the heir to Jimmy Johnstone’s throne. Wee Jinky was a king of a right winger. And so was Strachan.

  • @paulwilson2008
    @paulwilson2008 Před 27 dny +58

    Never forget him and gary mac making fun of my giner hair as a ten year old autograph hunter is was hilarious ....gordon asked if i was his illegitimate son 🤣

    • @somisak
      @somisak Před 22 dny +2

      My favourite leeds united player 👏

    • @Cassarolex
      @Cassarolex Před 15 dny

      😂😂😂 I met him as a kid and he came across as a cool guy

    • @simoncampbell3144
      @simoncampbell3144 Před 9 dny +1

      Are you though?

  • @morleywhite911
    @morleywhite911 Před 14 dny +8

    What a player Gordon was for Leeds , absolutely incredible

  • @johnnicholson4862
    @johnnicholson4862 Před 16 dny +4

    Terrific player. I was in the same digs as Gordon in Aberdeen in late 1977, went for a beer with him and Lesley, they were a lovely couple. Really great digs, with a wonderful character who ran the place. The Aberdeen team used to have their prematch meal there. Good to see Gordon still on good form.

  • @paulwilson2008
    @paulwilson2008 Před 27 dny +33

    Watched him grace the feild at elland road many times ..different class and defied father time ...a rare trait indeed

    • @Haydersublate
      @Haydersublate Před 27 dny +6

      Strachan playing with McAllister at Leeds was class.

    • @paulwilson2008
      @paulwilson2008 Před 27 dny +4

      Yep masterstroke putting them two together ...they didn't get the memo about running out of steam at 35 years of age ...absolute legends ...

    • @spreadthelove77
      @spreadthelove77 Před 26 dny +4

      I’m sure Gordon won the player of the year when he was nearly 40…?

    • @paulwilson2008
      @paulwilson2008 Před 25 dny

      @@spreadthelove77 I think your right

    • @rywalker6457
      @rywalker6457 Před 21 dnem +2

      ​@@Haydersublate and Batty and Speed. Great midfield.

  • @robertarbuckle8493
    @robertarbuckle8493 Před 26 dny +19

    Great player, fantastic manager for Celtic and Scotland. Entertainer as well

  • @tonybuckley6413
    @tonybuckley6413 Před 22 dny +5

    been a Utd fan a long time , an early memory that stayed with me was Strachan’s goal celebration against the pool 1988 at anfield to make it 3-3 .. loved it

  • @Haydersublate
    @Haydersublate Před 27 dny +12

    He was the angriest footballer in his 40s I had ever seen. He was also a very classy player too. Love the Strachan!

  • @cormackjames
    @cormackjames Před 7 dny

    Scotland, Ireland and N.Ireland have all produced some great managers. Gordon is amazing, love listening to him talk, great patter.

  • @alexandersonceltic
    @alexandersonceltic Před 26 dny +11

    Always love listening to Gordon 😊

  • @YerDa67
    @YerDa67 Před 21 dnem +25

    What Fergie did with that Aberdeen team in the 80’s is always overlooked. It’s why he’s better than Pep, Pep couldn’t take a team with such finances and do the things Fergie did with them.

  • @paulsmith6224
    @paulsmith6224 Před 25 dny +6

    This is just brilliant, what a top guy. Loved Stracham for us at LUFC, he took us forward leaps and bounds. I had hoped he would manage us but not to be. Brilliant Gordon ALAW, MOT.

  • @johnking3945
    @johnking3945 Před 22 dny +3

    I remember Gordon playing against Stoke (for Coventry) when he was about 38 or so at the Victoria Ground( I think). Gordon was absolutely awesome and was by far the best player on the pitch. I was so impressed. Since then I really listen to him and appreciate his footballing skills. From a Stokey.

  • @itiswhatitis3583
    @itiswhatitis3583 Před 27 dny +10

    Luved gordon.. never got the proper respct from Celtic fans for the job he done.🍀☘️

  • @63mckenzie
    @63mckenzie Před 23 dny +3

    I lived near to Ferguson when he was manager of ST Mirren. One day we were playing at the local football pitches and another group of kids were playing near to us. Suddenly this guy appeared roaring at one these kids 'your mother's been calling you in for your dinner!!!' It was Ferguson. Seems the kids got the hairdryer treatment too!

  • @Marklad62
    @Marklad62 Před 22 hodinami

    Best episode yet absolutely brilliant

  • @colingeddes2172
    @colingeddes2172 Před 27 dny +4

    Loved strach when he managed sothampton for a couple of years, good times and memories from the wee man.

  • @garyrenton4930
    @garyrenton4930 Před 23 dny +4

    Reporter “Gordon, can we have a quick word” Strachan “Velocity” as he walks past. Brilliant humour 😂

    • @garymackie5608
      @garymackie5608 Před 20 dny +1

      Just a pity velocity dose not mean quick

    • @garyrenton4930
      @garyrenton4930 Před 20 dny +5

      @@garymackie5608 no but it is a word relating to speed

  • @stevencowdell5201
    @stevencowdell5201 Před 18 dny

    A legend at many clubs. Loved his passion and energy. A born winner. Wish we had a player like him for Leeds in the playoffs.

  • @scottw.3258
    @scottw.3258 Před 20 dny +1

    Strachan. One of my top XI favourite Dons players of all time.

  • @dumysani2801
    @dumysani2801 Před 8 dny

    Strachan a magician brilliant player...

  • @somisak
    @somisak Před 22 dny +3

    Strachan is a leeds united legend...

  • @paulself8698
    @paulself8698 Před 19 dny +1

    A great story teller and a great guy. Also a damned good footballer.

  • @chrismelte2782
    @chrismelte2782 Před 22 dny +2

    Really good interview , good to get an hour of really refreshing and honest football discussion both from the past and linked to whats happening now Gordon is fantastic at this and you can tune our listen and forget about life’s troubles as wife is divorcing me as she found images on my laptop , nothing illegal just feet pictures

  • @brucemcintosh7466
    @brucemcintosh7466 Před 14 dny

    He carried the ball with the joy of a young kid. Loved watching him.

  • @andrew-id9ls
    @andrew-id9ls Před 25 dny +2

    Won the league in Scotland with Celtic a few times with a very average side He was able to get the best out of limited players

  • @ChubbyChecker182
    @ChubbyChecker182 Před 10 dny

    Greay ppayer, great Character. Thanks for all the entertainment Gordon (4th in the Balon D'or 1983 aint bad) 👍

  • @newmannoggs
    @newmannoggs Před 27 dny +10

    Imagine having FIVE Lison Lions (including the captain), Bill Shankly, and Alex Ferguson all as influences on your career. Pretty much impossible to fail when that's your start in the game!

    • @drew2324
      @drew2324 Před 26 dny

      There were other players that went through the same but failed.

  • @littlejobby1
    @littlejobby1 Před 25 dny +2

    Great podcast Jeff, your reviews have inspired me and both cost me and saved me money😅. Here in the UK costs and availability can be frustrating.
    Thanks for everything you do in all the formats. 👏👏

  • @laineambrose-mcauliffe8471

    I’ve watched every episode - this was one of the very best! Spurs fan

  • @alfredlear4141
    @alfredlear4141 Před 14 dny

    Saints fan
    Absolute legend, always makes you smile while keeping his principals ❤

  • @GC-xz7vh
    @GC-xz7vh Před 16 dny

    At 39/40 years old at Highfield Road he was still often the best player on the pitch. Aggressive, 100% effort for the cause. Sad that he was the manager that took us down. Gave us some great memories in the seasons before that.

  • @ath7616
    @ath7616 Před 27 dny +13

    Great interview

  • @popatyourecords
    @popatyourecords Před 23 dny +4

    Saw him and Jinky play Dundee

  • @dawncolley8567
    @dawncolley8567 Před 26 dny +5

    Leeds United legend 💛💙💛

  • @rossturnbull8047
    @rossturnbull8047 Před 24 dny +1

    brilliant show!!

  • @CK-dd7eq
    @CK-dd7eq Před 26 dny +4

    Class 🍀

  • @pauldocherty403
    @pauldocherty403 Před 26 dny +3

    Strachan has great football history, no one knows fergies early managment life better, plus jock stein,Souness ,Cantona ,Big Ron, Wilkinson ,Vinnie Jones, Bryan Robson to name a few

  • @ianprest3850
    @ianprest3850 Před 9 dny

    Locved him at Leeds
    Went to every gamev❤

  • @leedsunitedoldschool2837
    @leedsunitedoldschool2837 Před 23 dny +1

    Gordon Strachan 🤍 Thank You for the wonderful Leeds years 🟡⚪️🔵

  • @paulclarke4776
    @paulclarke4776 Před 25 dny +2

    Loved wee Gordon Strachan... What is interesting is how many Aberdeen players who were managed by Alex Ferguson then want on to management??!!

    • @daddykornflakes
      @daddykornflakes Před 24 dny

      Cooper, Black, McLeish, McGhee, even Miller for a short time.

  • @johnbond3193
    @johnbond3193 Před 18 dny

    Absolute Scottish legend and phenomenal player. He was picked to play in a team of best players of the world cup in 86. I am unsure if any other Scottish players have earned that accolade. On his day he was truly world class. He was shorter than most but ran more distance than almost any player on the park. He should have had longer as Scottish Manager. Enjoy your retirement Sir.

  • @Htheorphanarian
    @Htheorphanarian Před 14 dny

    His lookalike story, his insight into Fergie, this is excellent

  • @alanphysio
    @alanphysio Před 17 dny

    Big Ron playing the piano like Liberace 🤣🤣

  • @nat90957.
    @nat90957. Před 24 dny

    I enjoyed this, Gordon was very entertaining.

  • @gaddafis566
    @gaddafis566 Před 26 dny +1

    Top class 😂😂

  • @porridgeable
    @porridgeable Před 22 dny +1

    Reporter: Gordon, can we have a quick word?
    Gordon: aye, rapid...
    Great man and fantastic footballer.

  • @gerardmcbryde3156
    @gerardmcbryde3156 Před 25 dny +1

    Enjoyed this blether with GS Celtic fan here

  • @BB-ju8bo
    @BB-ju8bo Před 25 dny

    Love it

  • @jonhobson3592
    @jonhobson3592 Před 25 dny

    Great IV with good stories 😊

  • @jtothecc2421
    @jtothecc2421 Před 23 dny +1

    Have you a quick word Grodon.................velocity, walks away.
    Classic.

  • @1Jameskelly
    @1Jameskelly Před 25 dny +1

    LEEDS UNITED LEGEND! Best midfield EVER... HIM. GARRY MAC. BATTY.. And SPEED!!

  • @BeatPoet67
    @BeatPoet67 Před 13 dny

    I raised my voice in one of our team meetings at work a couple of weeks ago. Somebody objected and complained to HR. I was given a verbal warning and put on a six week "plan". The world has gone insane. Great interview!

    • @Whatever10000
      @Whatever10000 Před hodinou

      There's passion in football that's why feelings run high, you were probably just being a dick for the sake of it. Trying to run a department like a football manager 😂😂😂 what a 🔔 🔚

  • @madforit2
    @madforit2 Před 23 dny

    Consistently one of the best speakers on football. Always nice to hear from Gordon. Should be hired as a pundit more too, always has excellent insight

    • @robinmcewen3286
      @robinmcewen3286 Před 23 dny +1

      He was cancelled by Sky and dropped by all the other media platforms as a pundit for comments he made about Adam Johnson. That's why you don't see much of him. He can be insightful when he wants. But he was condescending, rude and facetious to most interviewers when he managed. So it's hardly surprising there is little appetite to allow him back, unlike other pundits that have suffered for their remarks.

    • @graemeblack9963
      @graemeblack9963 Před 22 dny

      ​@@robinmcewen3286spot on

  • @garymacdonald7165
    @garymacdonald7165 Před 25 dny

    I remember,in the late 70s "Shoot" magazine gave us an album for football stickers and the one with Strachan at Dundee (unshaven,scabby hair etc) nearly gave me a heart-attack,aged 13! 😂
    (Gordon will remember that classic)
    Also we'll done Jeff for getting an MBE,you deserve it!

  • @somisak
    @somisak Před 22 dny +1

    2nd in a look a like comp as himself 😂

  • @jamesthepeacock1919
    @jamesthepeacock1919 Před 20 dny +1

    "I modelled myself after Billy Bremner. I was a pathetic Billy Bremner." Little did he know he'd become our second best ever captain after Billy Bremner. Absolute legend.

    • @james6901
      @james6901 Před 18 dny +2

      Whys it always Scots? Managers and players,,,,something in them thats different.

    • @jamesthepeacock1919
      @jamesthepeacock1919 Před 15 dny +1

      Bremner, Collins, Gray, Strachan, McAllister, Matteo, Snodgrass and Cooper. Think it's just a tradition now that Scots make good captains 🤣

  • @tonydunn3559
    @tonydunn3559 Před 27 dny +6

    Remember watching Gordon play for Aberdeen, straight away i thought United must sign this player ,brilliant for United ,and rejuvenated at Leeds.

  • @sbc1t
    @sbc1t Před 27 dny +2

    Fantastic interview with great stories

  • @Dadopersoblueboots
    @Dadopersoblueboots Před 17 dny

    When i was the chef at Coventry city. Gordon is kicking off because the players have no food. I wasn't told they weren't eating before the match . Strolls in 30 minutes late. Thanks chef. 😅😂😂😂 aye no problem.

  • @JD-fm6ur
    @JD-fm6ur Před 25 dny +3

    I’m so glad Jeff Stelling left Sky Sports and went independent. They couldn’t lace the mans shoes.

  • @user-vw2jr4cg7g
    @user-vw2jr4cg7g Před 27 dny +2

    Glen Daly live at the Ashfield club

  • @bensmiling
    @bensmiling Před 17 dny

    My favourite Saints manager. Made us hard to beat.

  • @andyhello23
    @andyhello23 Před 16 dny

    A different breed
    George graham did same at arsenal before he was sacked.
    At leeds he certainly got to lead and they won the league. Boy, elland road in those years was a hard place to goto and play.

  • @realtalk8665
    @realtalk8665 Před 21 dnem +1

    Need some timestamps on these videos

  • @gazzaboy2531977
    @gazzaboy2531977 Před 22 dny +1

    Have to say in my top best 10 Scottish players ever.

  • @warrengomez67
    @warrengomez67 Před 22 dny +1

    Would’ve been scared to play under Ferguson 😂

  • @kingbeastie
    @kingbeastie Před 4 dny

    Strachan was very much needed and welcome when he took charge of Scotland, particularly after the spectacular mess Levein made of the job.
    However by the end he was very frustrating for many fans, he'd be picking guys who are playing 8 or 10 minutes per week for the likes of Preston, Derby, Blackburn, Watford, etc. No disrespect meant to those teams at all, but Strachan deemed it a higher standard than the Scottish top flight and while that might be correct he was picking players who were never playing a full game.
    Steve Clarke selected guys like Stephen O'Donnell, for example, as that was the best option available at that time in certain positions, he drafted in Andrew Considine to cover for 3 games. These guys (and there were more as well) did not let Scotland down and deserved their caps, unfortunately Strachan would put the club or league the player played in ahead of the player themselves and what they could bring. I think he would have got further if he wasn't so stuborn and by the end a little arrogant too.

  • @Whatever10000
    @Whatever10000 Před hodinou

    Why wasn't that entire Aberdeen team used for the national team? All Scottish with the oldest players only 27.

  • @joecarson3379
    @joecarson3379 Před 18 dny +1

    Gordan took celtic to the group stages of CL. Martin O Neill never did that.

  • @paulbrodie6085
    @paulbrodie6085 Před 27 dny +2

    Sadly Gordon never played for the Hibees

  • @iaincathro3373
    @iaincathro3373 Před 15 dny

    The reporter asks "can I get a quick word" Velocity Strachan responds, and walks off.....his treatment as Scotland manager from the SFA was an utter disgrace

  • @duncanfraser1466
    @duncanfraser1466 Před 26 dny +1

    Alex ferguson was just the as every other man/dad in govan angry all the time lol

    • @alanadair4893
      @alanadair4893 Před 15 dny

      My dad was a very calm man fragoven ❤️

  • @joshbrown3439
    @joshbrown3439 Před 15 dny

    Stratham did a great job at Southampton

  • @jimmorrison8203
    @jimmorrison8203 Před 24 dny

    Gordon Strachan: Great footballer, Good Manager, Poor Mathematician.

  • @user-jr3eb5oo3g
    @user-jr3eb5oo3g Před 27 dny +5

    Actually Sir Matt was the opposite. No anger. But he achieved the same outcome. He dominated players by killing with kindness. Made everybody love him !

    • @jc-16.
      @jc-16. Před 26 dny +1

      Best but hardest way to manage.

    • @garymackie5608
      @garymackie5608 Před 25 dny

      Sir matt was from ayrshire no govan

    • @user-jr3eb5oo3g
      @user-jr3eb5oo3g Před 25 dny +1

      Never said he was from govan. He was a scot.

    • @garymackie5608
      @garymackie5608 Před 20 dny

      @@user-jr3eb5oo3g never said you did but if you were from Scotland you would no there's a different temperament in mind set from a Govan boy and a ayrshire wan

  • @craigjohnstone3855
    @craigjohnstone3855 Před 24 dny

    Very underestimated player

  • @ollybird4855
    @ollybird4855 Před 26 dny +1

    Watched him play for mufc many times... Even Aberdeen vs Celtic... Those were the days

  • @pmuggerud
    @pmuggerud Před 27 dny +2

    Well, THIS has gone and now the pretenders do not give a shit……

  • @alistair_rhodes7
    @alistair_rhodes7 Před 22 hodinami

    MORNING GORDON

  • @thechipman2473
    @thechipman2473 Před 15 dny

    1000th Like

  • @johnbanwell6391
    @johnbanwell6391 Před 21 dnem +1

    An intelligent and entertaining man. If I was a player, I would want him as my manager, not Ferguson.

  • @eric144144
    @eric144144 Před 24 dny +1

    Great interview. Strachan has cut back on the comedy a bit.
    SAF took St Mirren to an industrial tribunal despite having agreed to go to Aberdeen and being a nasty thug to employees. It was mind boggling arrogance and stupidity. He lost every single complaint.
    He thought he could bully everyone.

  • @CarlosFandango-do7nm
    @CarlosFandango-do7nm Před 20 dny

    Shame. The stuttering got ber ber ber ber boring.

  • @petuser1
    @petuser1 Před 17 dny

    he's stroking his ego,,, what about Pep

  • @albertdong
    @albertdong Před 26 dny +4

    Look up nyaff in the Scottish dictionary and this is who pops up.......even as an Aberdeen supporter I've always found Strachan unbearable.

    • @paulbrodie6085
      @paulbrodie6085 Před 26 dny +11

      You must be the only person is scotland very likeable character

    • @drew2324
      @drew2324 Před 26 dny +1

      ​@@paulbrodie6085he's definitely not the only person in Scotland to feel the same way.

    • @gerardmcbryde3156
      @gerardmcbryde3156 Před 25 dny

      Enjoyed this blether with GS Celtic fan here

    • @graemeblack9963
      @graemeblack9963 Před 22 dny

      Funny at timess but overall he was a condescending wee arse,

  • @GordonCaledonia
    @GordonCaledonia Před 25 dny +1

    Being a "mad" manager isn't always necessary. Ernst Happel, the great Austrian player and manager (and only survivor of his family after World War 2) was a very quiet man and he achieved immense success. Aberdeen beat his Hamburg in the Super Cup, though!
    *Ernst Happel*
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Happel#Manager

    • @Evemeister12
      @Evemeister12 Před 24 dny +2

      All successful managers are different. Guardiola, ancelotti, santana, happel, paisley, ferguson, Michels, trappatoni etc. They all had their own personalities and abilities. So we can't say that any single approach is the one true way. Life's more complicated than that.

    • @GordonCaledonia
      @GordonCaledonia Před 24 dny +2

      @@Evemeister12 Yeah, but too much gets made of that, "Hairdryer" stuff. I'm from Aberdeen and growing up, we never talked about Fergie's shouting, bullying tactics. Actually, it was Archie Knox, the assistant who was spoken about in that regard.
      Roy Keane tried the shouting technique and just made an arse of himself as a manager. Raising your voice doesn't mean anything if what you are saying makes no sense. I wish that people would stop telling these stories about managers because we are in a different age now, it's became a cliche. Alan Brazil type shit!

    • @Evemeister12
      @Evemeister12 Před 24 dny +2

      ​@GordonCaledonia ferguson himself is on record saying that the hairdryer stuff was overrated. It was a significant part of his management style but it was far from the only component.
      It's not ferguson's fault that the media mainly concentrate on talking about the hairdryer and not about his overall football acumen. He actually gets annoyed for not having his tactical brilliance and other talents talked about more.

    • @GordonCaledonia
      @GordonCaledonia Před 24 dny +2

      @@Evemeister12 Absolutely. I mean, he had videotapes of almost every significant match that was relevant to Manchester United's opposition and he watched those VHS tapes over and over and over again and analysed them. Very few managers did that back then. He understood leadership, he is vastly knowledgeable on the American Civil War, he's been to the battlefields.
      But that's a different age, Fergie's age. Modern management is 95% about handling STRESS. Look at Klopp, he's TOTALLY STRESSED OUT. You'll probably never see a top-flight player become a top-flight manager again, Zidane was the last one, I reckon. Future managers might not even have played the game, they'll go straight from the training academies to management, the ones who feel zero stress will get the jobs.
      But as you say, it takes all sorts. The Euros will be amazing this summer, bring it on! Where are you from?

    • @Evemeister12
      @Evemeister12 Před 24 dny +1

      ​​@@GordonCaledoniaI'm English.
      I believe that ferguson's temperament did contribute to his success but certainly wasn't the only attribute he had. All managers have to lay down the law to some extent.
      There's a case to be made that great players can become successful managers. Even in the old days, being a great player didn't guarantee success as a manager. But now there are some managers like xabi alonso at leverkusen, or Diego simeone at athletic, or Antonio conte at inter/Chelsea, inzaghi at Chelsea who can succeed as managers, having been great players.
      It's all about character and understanding of the dynamics of the game. Managers have always had to manage stress. Now they have to manage players and systems with certain restrictions and extra scrutiny from all corners.
      The game isn't as much fun anymore either from a participant's or spectator's perspective.