This Will *COMPLETELY* Change How You Play 🩸 Back 4 Blood GUIDE for Damage & Deck Builds (Nightmare)
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- čas přidán 24. 10. 2021
- Back 4 Blood Damage and Deck Builds guide that will showcase some incredibly interesting mechanics with how damage and weakspot works. This video will change everything you thought you knew about Back 4 Blood
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Hey! So there's been some new findings courtesy of reddit! Let me break down what we know so far.
From what I understand,
Knowledge is power is not properly displaying numbers. Which is resulting in damage totals not being what we would expect, people measured the PIXELS IN THIS VIDEO to confirm that hahaha. Also, there is not supposed to be multiple numbers showing when you hit a weakspot.
HOWEVER. There are in fact two damage pools being simultaneously affected. Apparently, according to Turtle Rock, the weakpoint system they use on Ogre's and Breakers is the same system they use on regular Mutations and Common. However you can break weakpoints on Ogre's and Breakers, but you cannot do that on other mutations. Soooo the result is that they FORWARD damage to the health of the creature you are attacking. Anyway, this is causing Knowledge is power to misrepresent numbers.
Common Ridden seemingly have a breakable weakpoint on their head. So KiP gets even weirder on them when trying out different weapons. Punching them, etc.
Here's the reddit thread where someone did testing in Swarm Mode, along with Turtle Rock's reply.
www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/qgoseo/psa_misinformation_about_knowledge_is_power/
So the TL:DR;
The numbers being shown by KiP are currently being weird. The rest of the concepts in the video with mixing and matching things to get benefit out of additive/multiplicative still stand. HOWEVER Turtle Rock did say they are going to be looking at if they need to change anything now, so who knows if cards effects will change over time.
Honestly bullet damage means just what it says. Bullet damage to normal areas or weak spots. That was not hard to figure out
@@fire_ant_187x7 The problem is the other damage types don't mention how they stack or don't with one another, from reading the cards you would expect them to all be working about the same way and they don't. A failure on the devs part to clarify how the systems work and what "damage" vs "bullet damage" vs "weak spot damage" means exactly. It's not a huge deal, it just kind of sucks when there isnt like a help feature tucked into a menu somewhere, that makes it transparent how each system works. Instead we have to try to do testing which relies on the testing tools to be accurate, and is a chore, to figure out this stuff.
I know not every player cares too much about this kind of thing, but I find it frustrating when I am given choices, but not really all the information to know what those choices mean. Still a fun game though, have been really enjoying it.
In the Reddit post, the numbers he displayed for total weakspot damage seemed to also be affected by Walker’s damage bonus even though it isn’t a weakspot bonus. So, his character card DOES have an effect on weakspot but regular “damage” cards don’t?
Patient Hunter is a damage card that seemed to affect the weakspot damage too though.
+damage not affecting body damage multiplied by weakspot is incorrect, this video is effectively useless, the "base understanding" of how the game actually works was more accurate than what your experiments showed. If you remove the second number, and the first number is not showing the crit multiplier of hitting the weakspot, your entire video is actually giving opposite advice that is negatively effective. Avoiding Glass Cannon, Patient Hunter, cards like these work perfectly fine with weakspot multiplier but DOES NOT SHOW ON KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. So... all your suggestions are wrong. All of them. Multipliers on multipliers is the only useful advice from this video.
Your mods banned me for saying gg bro in chat
Knowledge is power might be the most appropriately named card in this entire game it seems
Wtf my top Back 4 Blood channels in 1 chat, worlds collide 🤯
Khadgar would like a word
Na meth head is appropriately named.
I don't think it should be a card, rather a base part of the game you can turn on and off
It is a old idiom but it is true. Trust me as someone who is soon graduating from my 2nd STEM degree, knowledge can be viewed as a form of resource that you have. Whether it is knowledge in real world, or virtual. Use it to your advantage.
Dude my buddies and I played with you on nightmare the other night, you were playing mom and said "Mama's gotta get her drinky", we were cracking up and you showed us some strats. It was good playing with you. We should run again sometime. That night was our first nightmare attempt but we've gotten way better
It would be great if they made the shooting range allow card builds, upgraded items/guns and let you summon specials to test on.
There would be no secrets then
@@PPeggythePirate what secrets do you think we’re still not seeing? Just deck builds is all I’m thinking
I feel like they will eventually be implementing this in a future patch. This should've been done since the start.
@@FriedSpicyChicken26 They should start with allowing us to make more than 8 decks fist lol.
I thought that was literally the point so I can. Try the huns out with different accuracy values and stuff but no lol
make builds with this knowledge. Destroy the dps ceiling
Confirmed Confident Killer Does NOT add to weakspot damage
That's how the damage is calculated in Borderlands aswell, really interesting vid. Makes a lot of things clearer ! Cheers
What?
@@BlackAxon There is additive and multiplicative damage scaling in the Borderlands games
But borderlands is so much more complicated
@@PPeggythePirate It also has a damage formula that generally makes a*lot* more sense.
This explains why melee build was so absurd OP, with fire axe it one-shot tall guy that easy.
Glad to see more people finally figuring out the maths. Hopefully we’ll have players more capable of conquering vet/nightmare than we have.
As a melee main who has all the cards:
Breaker sees me and sweats.
Tallboy variants see me and panic.
Hocker/Stinger - spawn in and 0.025 seconds later they have me disabled and dead (or stun gun it off and the same hocker just disables you again before you can even move from the spot) - worst special design I've ever seen haha.
@@projectskald unfortunately just having a good build isn't enough for people to conquer vet/nightmare. most random players still have dogshit awareness
@@nahfam360 I dunno. I’ve made it mostly through vet without any issues. I’m held back by team mates 😭😭😭
@@projectskald i believe you. game really doesn't punish toxic players or trolls. what's going to stop a player from shooting birds/snitches/doors or doing friendly fire damage in higher difficulties. im not a lfd player so im not sure how they dealt with it. playing with good players is a different story though, games are really fun when everyone's on the same page
My head is just spinning while I'm trying to keep up with him. So much compounding, so many different categories. But I'm kinda getting it, he explains it well.
Swingpoynt talks about damage calculation like he's just unravelled an international conspiracy of baby-eating lizard people
Me who plays Doc with a full heal build: interesting.
SAAAAAAAAAAAAME but i'm gonna build this with my damage characters.
I do too except I have like 2 smg cards and she can be really well balanced.
Same, but gonna bully my team into optimizing their decks
@@johnlowkey359 literally me. I just found out Karlee starts with an AK-47 and now I wan't to build her haha.
@@skmkr5222 I'd take a carbine over an AK any day. Karlee's secondary is what's really nice on my shotgun/unlimited secondary ammo build.
Exactly what I was looking for! Keep up the good content! 😁
Thank you for explaining the different categories! So glad the devs put Knowledge is Power into the game
Hats off to you man. The amount of research and time you spent on this video must have been nuts. You've really done the community a favor with this. Definitely earned a sub from me!
From what I gather, what affects the damage number vs weakspot damage number can be inferred from the type of category and the phrasing. It seems that anything that just says "damage" or "damage with x" will always affect the basic damage number. I think the phrasing is key. "Damage with x" is referring to the base damage from that particular weapon type, the "with" being the important distinction. It's not referring to a different type of damage, just the standard damage coming from that weapon. However, the cards that affect weakspot damage are phrased like "melee damage" or "bullet damage". The descriptor coming before the word damage might be the indicator that it's a different type of damage and not that it is just the standard damage coming from a particular source. If that makes sense
Here is how I understand this. First you divide the damage into "Generic damage" and "Weakspot damage". They are dealt separately. The Generic damage is calculated by taking the guns base damage and adding modifiers to it such as glass cannon. The weakspot damage also takes the guns base damage but does not apply the modifiers and then adds its own unique weakspot modifiers.
What makes the silver bullet so different is that it is not a modifier that is applied after you separate the damage into the two types, instead the "bullet damage" directly changes the weapons base damage which both use when applying their respective modifiers. It is not necessarily anything to do with having their own categories as it has to do with the order in which it is calculated where bullet damage is applied before they are split up and handled separately.
Trauma resistance does stack with doc’s trauma resistance. When running those cards with doc I take almost no trauma damage while playing.
Dude, I thought I was gonna be clickbaited lol this is HUGE! Great find! Keep it up! Definitely earned my sub
I tested him weakspot +10% to team, this was additive to other weakspot cards. While his stacking up to 25% was weapon damage, multiplying with glass cannon, confident killer and patient hunter all being weapon dmg (bonus dmg uneffected)
Since Res Evil Resistance ive been watching you break game mechanics. WELL DONE BRO!!! You are a truly the GOAT
Wish RE Resistance could of became more, I really enjoyed that game man
I have tested the healing bonuses (doc's, EMT bag, and ointment), and they all are additive. I used a bandage with all these, which normally heals 1 segment, and it healed less than 2. 0.2+0.4+0.2=80%
Thank you for your testing.
Subbed, excellent content. Appreciate all the time and effort you put into this one, you articulated yourself very well. The community is better for having you in it!
Gave a whole new meaning to the words deep dive. Thanks brother. The knowledge is much appreciated.
not absolutely sure, but I believe use speed and revive speed are additive for reviving a player.
also, I was inspired to do some experimenting with other % cards, and ammo capacity is bonkers. It's sort of additive, but it doesn't just take the percentage and add it to your default max. It multiplies the % times 5, then it adds 3, then it is multiplied by a base number given by the ammo type. so for SMG (base# = 80), if you take 50% ammo capacity card, and take the 30% SMG ammo capacity card, you get:
960 = 80 * (5 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.3) + 3)
I'm not sure if it's actually coded like this, but this gives the correct results. base number for snipers and shotguns is 20 and rifles are 55. also, you eluded to the "Character Card ability" for Walker being in a different category. Well, for Hoffman's card ability to give 10% extra ammo capacity, it's added to the equation above just like the other cards. no difference. All this to say that "categories" theory doesn't quite apply to the ammo capacity I think. I would like to know if it applied to health stuff, as you said.
I love that this video was so detaled. I don't think any other youtubers put that much emphasis on the details like u do. I really would love if u could make a detailed video about trauma damage, cause it seems that I get more trauma damage when use melee weapons with healing card builds.
My mind is blown with this one dude! You're definitely Back 4 Blood Master! 😊
I believe what’s happening is that the body and the weakspot are two different “hitboxes” and you’re simply hitting both at the same time on a weakspot thus leading to damage values not applying to both spots
That's fine but the issue is the cards working weirdly. Like Glass Cannon only multiplies your non-weakspot damage. But silver bullets multiplies both weakspot and non-weakspot. It's just weird.
@@Homiloko2 because it’s only increasing damage for the body hitbox part of the damage, I think that’s why it gives us two damage numbers instead of one amplified one
I like to think I'm pretty good at games but I'll never be the type to patiently break this kind of stuff down. Really glad there are guys like you doing all the math for us lol
LITERALLY BROOO LMAOOO I'm the type of person when I fuck up or go down, I blame myself, not my (probably) pretty shitty deck build lol
dude you just opened my mind to some amazing decks! thank you so much!
“Why is it this way?”
Because bad coding, I can’t imagine this was a deliberate choice or working as intended.
Literally like half the game, still fun tho
It's weird hearing things that make so much sense, but yet confuse you at the same time. This video makes me distrust 90% of deck build videos on youtube :0
Right. Theres so much work to be done to figure out optimal decks and I DOUBT many people are doing it. They're just putting out mass content hoping some of it sticks.
A beautiful video. Really appreciate this one!
This is exactly what i was looking for! liked and subbed can't wait for more content!
your Math teacher would be so proud of you if he watched this video.
I’ve played this game 1 time so far and this video has helped a ton when just starting to build decks.
Excellent data and very well presented. Thanks for putting this up.
Finally, the game mechanics I have been looking for!
Subbed instantly after this video. Very thorough and entertaining (: i would love to see if you come up with some mandatory cards and figure out when it becomes necessary (maybe just for yourself) to start picking other beneficial cards. I know I have my opinions but I would love to hear yours!
Thank you for taking the time to do this, the game has a lot of hidden mechanics.
Really good to see someone going through this publicly in a video. Try and bring this kinda stuff up online or in forums and people lose their shit attacking you because you're "destroying their builds" even though no one is attacking anyone.... It's just information and facts folks.
I've done a little testing before in order to clarify that cards do what I would think they're supposed to do. The amount testing needed to figure out what is in this video though is insane, thank you!
Love how passionate you are about this man fr
This explains why I'm so OP when I'm using my shotgun build with my friends in Recruit, even though we're all new. I've got the cards that give: 1 that gives Shotgun +30% damage, +10% Bullet Damage, and +20% Weakspot damage. I'm sure that's nothing for cards at Nightmare, but I'm smashing through stuff with my friends.
Even a Glock 1 shots stuff on Recruit, so it's not the best way to test builds
Thank you SwingPoynt! Keep up the amazing content my g
Im gonna likr and comment for the algorithm because im really impressed that you figured this out and the amount of work and dedication you put into your videos, I've been watching your videos since Re Resistance.great work and keep it up!
Very informative, thanks a bunch dude, i'll share it with my friends
Random note on Buckshot Bruiser: play with it while packing a full auto shotty against an Ogre or Breaker. It's insane.
All this shows me is that the game needs a stats page as well as the "active cards" page. If we could see that your Bullet damage/ Weakspot damage/ General damage were different we could have figured this out... games a bit of a mess honestly I feel like they didnt really test this or the difficulty scaling at all.
Thanks for vid tho, clearly explained... GJ
Exactly. Since we can put together builds, we need a stats page so we can see exactly what our builds are doing. Just like the division or any other game with builds like this.
@@IrisOsiris some parts of game is fun but most are pure laziness imo.
Can't believe i've watched this whole messy stuff at nearly 2 am. Anyway, really cool video !
You sir have earned a mafkin sub! This is some crazy good info and very well presented! Thank you!
Very Informative. Thank You!
That was awesome. Thanks man!
That was probably the most useful and informative video on b4b I've seen 👍
DUDE ! My hat is of for you. That's crazy details and info much appreciated. New follower 👍 peace from sweden
This is useful thanks. Ill add a column onto the public card compendium for damage types :D
This makes sense because I run melee damage and with all my damage cards I can kill a berserker by myself in just a few hits
Care to share that build?
@@venturaramirez6021 just stack all the melee cards. Meth head, brazen, batter up, ignore the pain etc
@@venturaramirez6021 Battle Lust , meth head , Mean Drunk , Berserker , Slugger , Batter Up , Brazen , Spiky Bits , Adrenaline Fueled , Vanguard , Run Like Hell , Breakout and 3 spots left for health or support iteams etc. (I am just about to unlock ignore the pain and face your fears )but not sure where i would put them at the moment
Good to know thanx bro, lot of good info to know better what cards to make combos with
Super helpful!! Thank you for explaining this
This is definitely gonna help out with how I build decks
Good video. This game is kind of vague about most things. Makes it Hard for new players to understand. This should put you on the right path to properly building a deck. This could change your whole experience with the game. Well done.
Willing to bet all damage types are self-compounding: Melee, Bullet, Accessory, Fire, etc.
Also, REAL weakspot bonus damage multipliers from what I've found:
Stingers/Hockers, 2x
Tall Boiys, 1.5x
Common Ridden: 1.1x
No clue on the retch tree and allegedly the stalkers take more dmg.
The 1.1x on commons is solely because of the 10% that knowledge is power gives you
@@kami3989 which is cancelled out by the 10% damage Walker gives you as a bot.
@@recless8667 Does that not apply to both instances of damage?
Edit: Walker's +10% damage only affects Walker, his card gives the team +10 health
@@kami3989 according to SwingPoynt in this video, it's only to base damage.
The whole discussion here is invalid though, SwingPoynt has clarified that the numbers from Knowledge is Power is a bug, and the Devs have confirmed only one number is used in the calculation
I really hope tons and tons of B4B players see this video. This is crucial. Thanks a ton for the info man.
can't wait for part two of this video dealing with rare/epic weapons or weapon attachments
The whole weak point damage thing is like duh to me sorry xD.
It comes from Crit damage in Rpg games. Crit damage only effects crit attacks but not base/white attacks. Usually crits are usually red/yellow attacks.
Usually in rpgs you would increase your crit chance to about 30-40% and max out crit damage as high as you can. then run a tank build to max out survivability and damage output.
Sometimes in rpgs you can use items to turn total health pool to max crit damage. So like in the game guild wars 2 you could do this. I became a Glass cannon tank thief. It was so broken.
But whats crazy about this game is that they dont combine in this game but are completely different damage sets.
big help sir, understand the game more, thank you very much :D
keep it up sir
Huh...and I just made a pure damage gun build with only 2 weak spot damage cards 😭 Very intriguing though.... You should totally go through every card and make it it's own video 🤣
this info honestly makes weakspot damage weaker if anything
@@strataslayer2512 omg, i cant believe people are this stupid
@@strataslayer2512 it makes the weak spot good! Don’t you understand a word in the video?
@@strataslayer2512 bruh watch the video again 😂
@@nathanallen8703 I watched it for him. He is right. Weak spot is weaker with this information. If weak spot damage only goes up with weak spot cards and certain damage cards but not all, that makes it weaker as a stat. Glass canon doesn’t effect weak spot damage. Weaker. Shredder and confident killer potentially doesn’t effect weak spot damage. Weaker. Armored weak spots on mutations prevents weak spot damage and even base damage bonuses. Weaker. The point of the video was to show you not to stack weak spot or gun damage but to make a wide variety of damage bonuses for multiplier values.
Edit: someone else confirmed confident killer does not add to weak spot damage. Making weak spot weaker again.
Thank you, I'll have to change some cards from my deck.
Very helpful video gained a whole new respect for the game
Super helpful video man, packed full of information 😂 can I suggest maybe do one on damage reduction and trauma? I see lots of people running around on their last legs. Anyways, imma subscribe 👏🏽
Crazy informative video. Very nice
While I was testing similar things myself, I noticed that Holly's +25 Team Stamina seemingly changed the amount of extra stamina you get from stacking stamina off certain cards. Seems like character team effects stack multiplicatively, and has me wondering if regular team effects also stack multiplicatively with normal cards, and whether "character team" and "regular team" effects stack multiplicatively off each other. Could give Mandatory PT some extra incentive in a coordinated group deck.
I experimented with something similar with Hoffman's team ammo capacity card, and it seems to me it is added the same as all the other cards, Team or otherwise. ammo capacity is, sort of, combined additively. it might depend on the individual mechanic targeted.
Thank you for testing.
Excellent analysis.
YOUR SO INFORMATIVE THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
Thank you sooooo much for this!!!
Love how descriptive you got man 👍🏽
Well I already know those card categories and have a build ,but still interesting seeing ppl figures out, hope ppl know more and make the game fun
you earned your self a sub for your research. Thanks
Very informative, thank you
Never thought Bullet damage was soo OP dayum. Please make a full video which cards do which kind of damage.
Awesome video. Man I learnt a lot! xD
Definitely never seen a video before now but am subscribing
You got a like and subscribe for this one, amazing in depth breakdown of the stats for b4b!
such gud info... thx alot mate
Hey SwingPoynt could you do a check on the "Shredder" card too? seems no1 knows if and how it gets affected by shotgun pellets. (Though if it works like Shotgun Bruiser its pretty much worthless on shotties.)
Phenomenal video. Thanks
Subbed and liked thanks for the info big brain man
Very informative thank you
Very informative and interesting!
Do you have a link to your decks somewhere?
I don't trust other sources to put in the work to figure out the absolute optimal stacks of cards, but I do trust you. subscribed and listening!
sooooo helpful thank you
You sir just earned a sub I like this is the first of your videos Ive ever seen but I can already tell I like your brain
Would love a follow up vid after you do more testing. Subbed.
Damn, thanks for this wonderful info.
You definitely earned a sub for this
This is going to encourage leaning into a character's strengths by utilizing their character bonuses with other card bonuses to create the multiplicative effects.
Which is good, I'm getting annoyed seeing other PS4 players play Doc and not buy Support Accessories and go lonewolf Melee. Along with Sniper Hollys. These bug me. I'm sure the other platforms have their Special Freds too, but, bro.
Thank you for testing
I understand what your saying and i actually thought something like this may have been in place because ive been using doc and mom and can use the same cards or have it so mom has more efficiency over doc and doc just still heals for way more then mom. Because it grows exponentially. Cool to see there is something like that in place
Love the video. Do you have anything discussing trauma? I recently tried going in to that for No Hope and even though I have 105% with Sharice, I still take some trauma on hit. Is there a cap?
Base Dmg & Weakspot Dmg are separate damage hits, that land at the same time when hitting a weakspot, and therefore calc independently from one another, with % increase cards.
Bullet Cards increase both Base & Weakspot.
Shotgun/Sniper % increase Cards are calc'd separate.
Jim & Walker Dmg% calc'd separate.
So to achieve max Gun Dmg, mix cards of Base Dmg%, Weakspot%, and other % categories, as opposed to just loading up on one.
One exception is Melee. Melee% increase effects both Base Dmg with melee and weakspot Dmg with melee.
Did I miss anything? I'm really curious as to how to Maximize my Explosive Damage with Frags.
Thank you for your video sir! very understandable!