FLAWED WINE Blind Tasting - Master of Wine tastes Wines with added Aromas.
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- čas přidán 7. 05. 2022
- Master of Wine tastes wines with added faults, flaws, and aromas.
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I have used this glass in this Video: RIEDEL Veritas Champagne
I have tasted the following aromas in this Video:
1. Bell pepper Pyrazine
2. 4-MMP
3. Isoamyl acetate
4. Acetaldehyde
5. Geraniol
6. Diacetyl
7. Vanillin
8. Whisky lactone
9. 4-EP
10. TCA
Training your nose and your palate is important in my line of work. Wine experts often list a lot of aromatic compounds when describing wine but it can be very difficult to identify a favor. We often believe that we have traded our high-quality sense of sight for a lesser sense of smell because we cannot sniff our drugs from a distance as dogs can, for example. While we are not able to detect aromas from a distance very well we still use our sense of smell often subconsciously and are able to identify a large number of aromas from up close.
We use our sense of smell less often, as we don’t have to identify food by smelling it as it is clearly labeled in the supermarket. But if we practice, we manage to distinguish and name many aromatic compounds.
This does not need to be the case. The Onge people from the Andaman Islands in Asia define their calendar by the smell of the flowers that bloom during that period and greet each other by saying: How is your nose? So let's dive into these samples. I have done this tasting before but I don’t remember the order of the samples, and I will taste them blind and reveal each sample along the way.
Great video Konstantin, and nice job identifying these compounds! They are added at a low level, i.e. the same quantity you would expect them to occur in real wine. Not easy to pick up the aromas at that level.
Please note geraniol is a positive floral character (often described as rose-like) contributing to the flavour profile of many aromatic varieties including Muscat, Gewürztraminer, Riesling, Torrontés. Geraniol is a terpene released during fermentation, from an odourless precursor present in grapes (especially skins). The geranium leaves flavour you describe is due to a different compound (2-ethoxyhexa-3,5-diene) and always considered a fault.
Overall I think you made an informative and entertaining video out of the tasting kit!
Thank you for clarifying that!
I love this nerdy stuff 👏🥂 Thank you, Konstantin!
Glad you enjoy it!
Very interesting and original content, loved it, thanks Konstantin
Excellent tasting idea, that's actually something I was curious about.
One of the best ever ! Very creative and informative !!!
Glad you think so!
excellent and informative, one of your best. Thank you for this
Super interesting video Konstantin! Only knew of about three of those notes/compounds. Very informational video - Would love to see more of these types of videos! :) Happy sunday and stay thirsty :D
This was cool to watch. I’m a chemist as well as a general nerd. I love how much I learned from this video. Thank you for the video
Amazing video! I learned many compounds I haven’t heard before. Thanks for bringing value to your wine fans - ¡Saludos!
doing my deadlift sets whilst watching Konstantin taste wines
that's a very nerdy video i like it even though i can barely make out these notes most of the time
whenever i drink a wine I'm like mmmm that's a good wine or ugggh that's a not so good wine 🙂
This video was fantastic! I really like the technical stuff. More on the particular compounds in wine that correspond to certain flavours would be great 😊
Great video! My top three of your great work so far….
Wow, thanks!
Really interesting video! I'm going to have to study these compounds more in depth. I was aware of their potential presence in wine, but knew little of the science behind them, so now it's time to get learning!
Such an awesome video! Thank you. I'm going to be preparing for WSET3 soon, so this geeking out is much needed 😆
Good luck!!
Thank you Konstantin! 👍😃🤝
Congrats. It’s was really really good video. The thematic is great and the demonstration very practical. I am living in Bulgaria where everyone makes own wine and take it as the best in the world. I am familiar with some of the aroma, because home wines have it all. An hour ago I made blind tasting of home winemaker’s wines on the street of Melnic( an iconic wine Town/region in Bulgaria). Believe me or not I have tasted half of the wine mistakes in the book. I really enjoyed the video and wish to have more educational videos like this.
As a chemist and wine nerd this video was super interesting, what a great idea! I'd love to do a tasting like that, i think it would be very educational. Fun fact: in the university where i did my bachelor's the 2nd year organic lab experiment to teach us about esters was making and distilling isoamyl acetate 😁
I wish I could thumb this down twice.
This was absolutely amazing! I work at a brewery in Seattle and we do sensory training very similar to this- we spike the samples to varying degrees and we learn to identify them. I did overall “good” (83 overall) but it is definitely something I have been working on and it’s great to see some of these wines characters and the overlapping ones were super interesting (acetaldehyde, isoamyl acetate, diacetyl, vanillan)
The Brett character is one that I have brought up several times in discussions of doing more advanced/specialized sensory training. I’ve been working towards becoming more and more involved in our barrel aging program.
Can you share the chemicals you spike the samples with? I'd be really interested in participating (or if everything else fails, creating) a tasting for sensory defects in beer (and I doubt you ship to Europe :)).
I studied chemistry for around 15 Years, so I'm confident to create comparable (and non-lethal :D) samples given the chemical and the concentration :)
all except tca are overlapping in a brewery, 4-mmp presence in hop is massive and a lot of work is made to extract more thiols nowadays, geraniol the very same...
@@teosoderholm96 Thank you very much! I would not have thought the fermenting mistakes so consistent over different products :)
@@plapperkfr2045 please note that most of these are not mistakes, but wanted compounds, only ones who are always seen as mistakes are aceltadehyde and tca, all the resto are situational wanted compounds.
@@andreassvensson228 Yes, I'm aware of that :) Nevertheless, it'll mighty helpful to create that (wanted or unwanted) taste, so you can acutally confidenly talk about what you taste and discuss whether it should be there or not :)
"I think it tastes.." becomes much more of a learning opportunity when it's pronounced "It tastes of ... - because I put 50ppm in there!"
Really fun video, thanks! I’ll definitely try to buy one of these kits. One interesting compound I came across recently is dimethyl sulfide, which has aromas of tomatoes. It’s something that I’ve encountered in really hot weather Syrah here in Southern California, but can also show up in coffee beans from some regions (I think Kenya, for example).
did you know you can put clingfilm/plastic wrap in TCA tainted wines and it will remove the TCA as it reacts and binds with the clingfilm/plastic wrap.
OMG I could really have used that TCA sample recently 😅. Thank you for this - definitely going to get a kit! 🙏
Another informative video, Konstantin. I struggle to identify Diacetyl and Geraniol in blind tastings, and have a long way to go on this one...
I watch your videos every day over lunch. They are the perfect length for me. Excellent content, fun and well informed. I have also recommended your videos to colleague at the WSET in London. Thanks. David Kraft from the UK.
Thank you!
Super interesting video! I would have expected one of them to be VA, that is a classic flaw - especially in white wines - did I miss it??? Be well!!!
That was the Acetaldehyde
TCA is not detected by so many people, im so sensitive I can smell it from an open bottle 15 feet way. They tasting room staff at the last winery I worked with used me to test corked bottles cause they couldnt detect it and needless to say ive experienced enough cork taint to last me my entire life at this point its not pleasent.
Fantastic idea💡!!!!
Really good wine geek stuff here. Totally enjoyed this. Cheers 🥂
Glad you enjoyed it
Very interesting video. I'm a very amateur wine taster, but it was interesting seeing you go through various aromatic compounds. The compounds reminded me of my organic chemistry classes at university years and years ago.
I hope thats a compliment ;)
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine It is. We had a brief laboratory exercise that included flavors and fragrances that included complex esters and ketones. I recognized some of the nomenclature.
This takes me back to years ago, when I was making true fruit wine vinegars from fermenting fruit wines. After the fruit wines were made, filtered and aged for a year in glass, I added the bacteria to convert the ethyl alcohol to acetic acid. The results were aged for 90 days and then tasted with the fruit wines they were made from. Another less expensive way fruit wines are made is to take crushed fruit pulp and add it to white vinegar.
The fruits I used were: red grape syrup (often found in brewery stores to make a wine), strawberries, dark cherries, raspberries, oranges, and lemons.
Later I came across a Broker selling Swiss Chocolates and is company in Switzerland also made and sold true fruit wine vinegars. So these specialty vinegars are also available in specialty food shops and quite expensive. It was a fun hobby for that time.
On a more scientific note...a graduate student at Louisianna State University did an extensive study about the fermentation of sugar with all of the other compounds found in the fermented liquid. Thereafter how these complex compounds then became vinegar. Tan, San Chiang, "Vinegar fermentation" (2005). LSU Master's Theses. 1225.
digitalcommons.lsu.edu/gradschool_theses/1225
Always much to learn.
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Thanks for that Konstantin. I find that most of those "faults" can add to the complexity of wine, if discreet and in balance. Exceptions to that are, of course, TCA and, for me, vanilla. As regards Brett, I ran a poll on UK, US and Australian wine lovers' sites and found that in all three, a majority of consumers welcomed modest Brett as an element of complexity. Yes, even in Australia, although with a much slimmer margin. If I were doing it again, I would now add a French language site where I would expect the tolerance to be even greater.
research has done in italy with regards of blind tasting, and all groups (modest drinkers, expert, and non drinkers) preferred light brettanomyces character in tuscan red wine
I at first thought of those flavor-added wines sold occasionally at Aldi here in the U. S.: wine with fruit or chocolate flavor added, usually. Very different!
Once again, thanks for taking the hit for the rest of us! 😅
And, yes, TCA is indeed nasty!😬
As a beer nerd first, I'm glad I was able to guess Bret before you mentioned it. Also, I've had a French Pinot with Bret in it before, and it was disgusting. Thanks for the video!
Very cool!
Did you laugh when he missed diacetyl?
For beer, usually found when racked too early, or if primary fermentation is done at Lager temperatures (below 18°C) and the temperature has not been later raised (starting often around 2-5 gravity points above final gravity). The diacetyl rest is usually 3-4°C above fermentation temperature, e.g. 18°C, for a few days while the yeast cleans up the diacetyl.
Interesting tasting with Konstantin Baum
Major aroma aromatic compounds. This is a very interesting topic. I would love to see a video on fruit aroma compounds in wines. For example why Pinot Noir smells of red fruit, and why Cabernet Sauvignons smells like dark fruit.
His accent reminds me of that Key and Peele bit where Jordan tries to order food at a French restaurant.
Wine is life
Very interesting video, great explanations, yes Brett is not welcome in Australian wine! May be need to see the positive from it .thanks for the great videos
I first learned about diacetyl working in a German-style brewery-restaurant in the 90's. When the beers got too old they tasted of butterscotch.
I was just getting into the esters and aldehydes of wines when I left the business. This video is super awesome. While I will likely never discuss this with anyone that I drink with these days(wife), it’s fun to watch you dive into the nerdiness .
What made you leave?
@@numanuma20 5 years as a sales representative and watching the industry change towards goofy labels etc was not what I wanted to be a part of. Additional corporate quotas, selling brands that had no story, and dealing with useless middle management was also part of my reason to depart. I had basically lost the desire to simply earn an income from selling wine that didn't excite me.
@@eric1richards Sometimes those wines are what sell. The $5 generic appellation wines that have nothing to say.
@@numanuma20 I couldn't stand competing against Cupcake, Yellowtail, and Gato Negro. All those dumb labels took up my buyer's $$ and dumbed down their clientele. So I made the choice to move on.
@@eric1richards this comes across pretty snobby. It's still a consumption product and 99% don't buy for the story, or excitement you have for it
Tack!
Thank you!
Great video as usual! Come down to Alba we’ll do a blind tasting video together 🍷
Sounds great!
Brettanomyces is all the rage in the beer world, not just in Belgium.
Eh... It's used, more a craft beer thing though and still is a minority use.
Certainly for dry styles like Saisons and other aged beers it has had a comeback among some nano breweries and passionate homebrewers. I did hear the best Berliner Weisse traditionally used Brett but it is no longer produced in Berlin.
In the 2nd sample, if you smell passion fruit, it would be 3MH acetate. 4MMP gives you a more fresh new cut grass smell. The 3MH gives a more sweet citric smell.
4MMP is assiciated with Box tree, passion fruit, & black current aromas according to multiple sources, including UC Davis and the Australian Wine Research Institute. 3-MH and 3-MHA also smell of passion fruit but 4MMP is the most potent aroma.
I find bret really attractive, as long as it keeps at lower levels as possible, and stays only in the nose (not in my mouth). I found that in wines aged in oak casks for years.
In the beer world, diacetyl manifests as a cream corn aroma.
Thanks for that. I did not know all the substances.
What is wrong, if a wine tastes like turnip cabbage or cauliflower?
Can you try the plastic wrap corked wine fix someday?
Very interesting video, especially since many of these so called flaws can actually be beneficial, or seen as beneficial. How much do you think this kind of chemical manipulation is done on purpose to make the wine more (commercially) attractive? And what kind of producers do it? Low end or high end?
I once identified the aroma from a bordeaux as sweat sox although it tasted alright. I then read another reviewer say the same thing. Oh well.
Wow, this was interesting! One thing I find particularly useful by reducing wine down to its aroma compounds is that it helps us help people who are new to wine figure out what they're actually smelling.
For example, a friend detected what likely was diacetyl and vanillin in an oaked Chardonnay. In WSET language we'd describe it with butter, pastry, vanilla and toast, but she said it smelled like a croissant. Which makes complete sense! A toasted crust with a buttery dough inside.
People associate the same aroma compounds with different things, and it's useful to know what they are so we can establish a common language, which makes it easier to communicate what we experience a wine tastes of.
A bit surprised, that 4-MMP gives you ripe fruit aromas. To me it smells extremely green (similar to what tomatoes smell like). Classic thiol aromas. There are even specialized saccharomyces kinds on the market, that help with the shift during fermentation of green Sauvignon Blancs.
The descriptors for 4 MMP are blackcurrant, Box Tree and Passionfruit in the literature.
You have 3 main thiols in wine - 4MMP, 3MH and 3MH acetate. The first ones came from the grapes, connected with aminoacids, and with the right strain of yeasts, you release them. Very sensitive to oxigen. Almost all grapes have them, but is particulary caracteristc of Sauvignon Blanc and Verdejo. The 3MH acetate usualy is produce by yeasts if fermentation goes below 15ºC. In the 2nd sample, if you smell passion fruit, it would be 3MH acetate. 4MMP gives you a more fresh new cut grass smell. The 3MH gives a more sweet citric smell.
Thanks once again, and no I didn’t know all the aromas. But about half certainly. I read that wine can have TCA cork taint even when the bottle isn’t closed with a cork, because the bacteria that produce TCA can take hold in the plumbing/ containers at a winery. True? Please adjudicate.
Does this mean that some "flaws" can be good in a wine?
This was a fun and interesting video!
What's the compound that gives some Riesling the petrol aroma? And does it occur in any other type of wine?
Edited: not that I'm implying the petrol aroma is a sign of flawed wine, just thought about it given the discussion of aromatic compounds.
It is called TDN and it develops because of water stress
I saw that theres "scratch and sniff" wine books out there that help newer wine enthusiasts learn some basic scents found in different wines, and possibly some of these compounds. I'm curious if these books are good teaching tools for training the nose or more of a gimmick?
I am not sure ... I have never tried one.
I'm one of those that barely notices TCA in many cases. But I am super sensitive to the odor of a wine that's been opened too long. Seems to be a different kind of oxidization than that of a wine that is simply too old. What is the difference?
I watched this video yesterday and thought to myself, "I wish I could identify a corked wine." I then bought a bottle today of a Rhone blend and thought, "This Mourvèdre is really funky," only to realize it was corked.
none of these except tca and acetaldehyde are flaws in proper amounts
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
That's all good, but you promised the big pliers!
As to speak serious, could you do something of a kind next time, but adding the name of a substance on the screen. It's very hard to follow the discription, then to read the name, then you instantly forget what was that, when KB keeps up with describing it. Anyway, I would definitely like to dive down this topic again! Thanks! (Sober today)
Thanks. I have also added the names of the substances below the video. The port tongs are coming - dont worry!
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Yay!)) I wouldn't google it on purpose, to get know what are they for from the video.
So how does TCA smell or taste like? It's good to give more than 1 description for each flaw instead of one or none
hearing you talk about the cork issue, what is your opinion of cork, poly closures (porous plastic corks) and screw caps and the effect it has on wine? Screw caps actually seal the wine (sort of like boxed wine that is bagged). It would be interesting to hear your thoughts....maybe a video..... Cheers.
czcams.com/video/sB1iVOSBeLw/video.html
Acetaldehyd ist auch eine Note des Katers, nicht wahr? Wäre interessant ob die zugesetzen/vorhandenen Mengen einen spürbare Effekt haben
Es ist ein Produkt des Alkoholabbaus und ist z. T. für den Kater verantwortlich.
Poor Konstantin, had to drink Gallo...
Once heard that there are hundreds of flavours which can be in a wine so you left out something for sure but I think you mentioned the most important ones. Just think Rotundon would have been important aswell but inspite of this it was great that you shew us all this because I did not know the scientific name of half of them and as a person who also loves whiskies it was nice to get to know that these oaky flavour is called diacetyl.
:) I think Whiskies contains more Vanillin and Whiskey lactone. Diacetyl is associated with Malo
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Ohw, maybe I misunderstood you. Of course I knew that there is a lot of vanilin in a Whisky but I thought that spicy oaky flavour came from diacetyl. Maybe I should watch it again. Thanks.
Mich würde mal interessieren, wie du die „99Punkte Weine“ von Luca Maroni bewertest.
Ein Video über Amarone wäre auch toll!
Grüße, Mario
Is (too much) acetaldehyde a common thing in viognier? I often pick up on a quite musty note that I don't particularly enjoy in those wines, and it sounds like it might just be that.
Maybe it is also associated with Viognier - not sure.
it is associated with stressed/incomplete fermentation, acetaldehyde is a step further of alcohol degrading, so it's same smell that you can smell from someones breath while hungover or drunk
@@teosoderholm96 Thanks! It sounds like I may have just gotten unlucky with some of the Viognier I tried.
Woof!
That dog woof tho….
Brett is associated with poor hygiene in the winery, no other excuse can save it. Getting rid of Brett is hard and only those deep cleanses with special chemical foams that cost an arm and a leg can deal with it because Brett can survive in the tiniest of crevasses. I don't see how Brett can be something good, that smell has been associated with French wine and most of the French people I've met hate when people say that, they really don't like their wine being associated with a barnyard smell or manure but it has become a thing.
🌞🌞🌞
Super interesting video! I knew about all of them except the lactone, I didn't know it was responsible for the coconut smell and taste of American oak. Acetic acid was absent, though, and I think it's an essential compound for the set.
I must say that I don't like the clickbait title very much. I know it's pretty much essential for youtubers to use clickbait, but I think you could do better here, as many of the compounds aren't necessarily wine flaws. Something like "Master of Wine tries wine training kit - wines with added aromas" might be more truthful, and also interesting.
Fair point. The title has to get people interested but it also has to be truthful. I think this is the case here I think but I am taking your feedback on board.
why are u doing it like this? only relevant if you do a triangle tasting, and you don't specify dosing rate, also everything you had except tca and acetaldehyde (maybe even that in small amounts, american lite beer has some acetaldehyde on purpose to accentuate "freshness"), does and can enhance wine in right amounts
Well... not really sure whether a tasting is only relevant if you do it in a lab...
Opulent and herbaceous.
What a interesting concept and such a cool video. As a wine nerd myself this was very insightful! Keep up the great videos !