Why does the internet love this book?
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2022
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It Ends With Us is a book by Colleen Hoover.
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My man's getting cash $$$.
@@filurenerik1643 he's upgrading to man carrying money
Never forget that Colleen Hoover had a personal feud with a teenager because he didn't like her books.
Rip Caleb
Lol really
and she covered up her son SAing someone
Just from the writing style I had feeling she’d be one of ‘those’ authors
I don't like her books but I think she is a cool person. That guy insulted her first. Should she just take it when that happens? People have the right to defend themselves when they're being attacked. You need to calm the heck down and realize!
I knew Colleen Hoover fans were crazy when they compared Colleen to Jane Austen and said coho was better 😭💀
That's indeed going too far....
Comparing a classic author to a Wattpad author, and considering the latter to be the best is plain insult ಥ‿ಥ
never read this girl, but based on the excerpts from her novel- 100% not, jane austen's writing is everything, meanwhile hers is more common, everyday sort of language
Nah you aren't being fr 💀💀 I refuse to believe that Colleen Hoover's wattpad level writing is being compared and thought to be better than THE Jane Austen 😭😭
I am gonna go kms this is not the legacy Jane left behind...
I once heard someone say that colleen hoover write books for people who dont read and i think thats the exact reason so many people like her books
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Exactly what I was thinking
Soooo factssss
Like those people who buy books, but never read them?
@@daniellecandy4426I think people like that, and like people who say "I haven't read a book since highschool" but want to get back into reading. Cause a good chunk of people I've seen to who do like her books had said before they're "trying to read more"
And like...teens... Like people who haven't read a lot to recognize what bad writing is, or who haven't fully explored what they like in books or see how good books can be written.
Like someone whose never watched TV before will think the Big Bang Theory is the best thing ever, cause they don't have a base to compare it too
Colleen Hoover writes books for people who think they’re too good to read fanfiction
this is the realest thing ive seen.
ive read fanfictions that were literary masterpieces in comparison to her
yes, because fanfiction writers are way better at what they do
lily blossom bloom is a fucking hilarious name. i love it. hi, my name is strong protein hardbody
nice to meet you strong protein hardbody, my name is scooby dooby doo
Nice to meet you strong protein hardbody, I’m soggy limp handtowel.
@@autumnmichaela1655 Nice to meet you soggy limp handtowel, I'm Christmas ornament tree.
Nice to meet you Strong Protein Hardbody, i'm Cocka Doodle Doo
The parallel universe version of Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way
I really dislike her writing style. Reminds me of a wattpad story
Yes 100%! Excited to watch the video and see what his take on it is
It's the new style. Just write whatever and don't go back and edit.
She has an account on wattpad
Not just any wattpad story
A mid 2000s 14 year old's wattpad story
@@unigon794 “ i got sold to 1 direction”
Really like watching people talk about this book as someone who has never picked up Colleen Hoover
Same
I, too, have never picked that woman up.
literally same.
nor her book, for that matter.
same lmao
Same
I read one Colleen Hoover book for the same curiosity, and what I have a hard time getting passed is that everything is the absolute “most.” Like a character will close a door behind them and narrate: “I closed the door between her and I. And in that moment I realized - I hated doors more than anything else in the world. I hated that something could possibly exist that would stop me from looking at her for even another minute. I wanted to strangle whoever looked at open space and thought they’d put a door there. If only they knew that SHE would be on the other side.” And it just goes on like that for 300 pages.
that sounds...... rough
help this is so accurate
Lmao 🤣🤣 so true.
Jesus christ. I wanna read it just to laugh lmao
help i just know this is in a book somewhere out there and booktok will eat it up soon enough
“lily blossom bloom” how does ms. colleen expect me to take that seriously 💀
Name sounds like it was ripped straight from Wattpad
it has the same energy as ebony dark’ness dementia raven way 💀
and her initial conflict is that people will think she has an unfair advantage if she opened a flower shop bcs of her name. I quit in the first chapter
seriously? thats has to be one of the most ridiculous protagonist names i've ever seen
@@ni2077 what?unfair advantage?I can't😭
(Spoilers)
My least favorite thing about this entire book was that it's called "It Ends With Us" in reference to ending the cycle of abuse, but Lily literally continues to keep Ryle in her life? Like in the epilogue she's crazy enough to let her daughter around the man who abused her, and she's convinced herself that that counts as ending the cycle of abuse, somehow?? And I thought her leap of logic of "my dad beat my mom but never me, so surely my husband would beat me, his wife, but never his daughter" was equally insane. How would that even work? Why on earth does she think her ex husband will be the exact same as her father? Does she think all abusers act the exact same??
Precisely, while Lily leaves Ryle for the sake of their daughter, it's still risky that she allows him to have a big part in her life after the divorce, even coparenting with her, just seems like it wouldn't go as smoothly in real life.
@@trinaq Yea, I don't understand how Colleen Hoover convinced herself that "ending the cycle of abuse" allows you to still keep your abuser in your life. I don't think its ever even worked like that lmao I have no idea how she thought it was a smart idea
@@eegk I highly concur with your statement. Colleen Hoover even explained in an author's note that her own father was physically abusive to her mother, at one point even throwing a TV at her. He was never abusive to her or any of her siblings, like Lily, but unlike Lily's situation, her mother eventually filed for divorce when Hoover was three years old. Hoover always questioned why her mother stayed with a man who abused her for so long, which sparked the inspiration for this novel.
@@trinaq I was literally thinking about this. Forgive me if I sound ignorant here, but seems wild to me that someone (Hoover), who had an abusive father and made it a point to explain that in her author's note, would write a book like this almost saying its okay to be like Ryle? It's okay, he just has issues, but don't worry fully let your infant child be around someone that can't control their anger or rage? I think her writing just isn't deep enough to explore those themes and such in the way I think Hoover wanted it to come across. I can understand writing stories to come to terms or to work out how you feel etc. about situations like a form of therapy, but maaaaaaan oh man was this book hard to NOT cringe at...
@@kertchella well in It Starts With Us Lilly is really hesitant about letting Ryle near Emmy
My coworker is 24 and she's just getting into reading for pleasure. She loves Colleen Hoover (heard about her from book tok) and is asking me for book recommendations. I'm almost 32, been watching booktube for a decade and don't know how to tell her I dislike Colleen's work, and can't recommend anything even remotely like it.
You should ask her about the kind of things she liked in the book or about her fav genre. That might help you recommend her stuff.
I think if what she liked about it is the fact that it's easy to read/easy writing style and a "nuanced" romance, guide her toward better authors who manage just that. I think those are the two biggest things that most people are drawn to with this
Tbh I would try to be honest while being nice about it… Hoover literally got into a fight with a teen who didn’t like her books and abused a girl via the Internet who was sa’ed by her son. That’s not an author I would want to support
Maybe recommend her some of the modern classic romance novels with "good" writing? Like Call me by your name or Normal people?
i'm glad i had a wattpad phase when i was like 14, it got all the trashy, highkey problematic romance tropes out of my system. still, it's never too late to get into reading and if someone enjoys essentially the chocolate bars of books (easy to consume, sweet, and definitely not good for you), good for them
We didn’t see the deeper nuance in Man Carrying Thing’s abusive relationship with this book. He wants to like it but constantly ignores the red flags in plain view. He begs for more, yet the book deprives him of the respect we as readers all deserve. Truly a tragedy.
thats actually dialectics bro…
My issue with this book was that it was incredibly cliched and predictable. I felt it almost romanticised abuse and trauma! Only got to the point where you say it’s manipulative but …OMG YES!!!
Preach, you took the words right out of my mouth. 👏🏾I'm glad that Lily left Ryle, not wanting to repeat the same cycle of abuse as her parents had, but I hated that Ryle was almost excused by everyone else for abusing Lily, which is simply disgusting.
My problem with this book and the author in general is that the same behavior from different Love interest is seen as abusive in that one and romantic in the other one. For example the guy in November 9 has full on rape fantasies abt the mc and it’s meant to be romantic. Sorry but with such a book I cannot take a lukewarm commentary on abuse seriously
more questionable is that Colleen sees a dynamic between Lily and that rich person (yeah this character is kind of forgettable) as romantic before the abusive part is now shown clearly (The part where he's drunk and slapped her).
Like, girl, even before they started dating I can see many red flags on the guy xd
The reason why I got invested in the story tho is the story of Lily and Atlast. At least in those letter arcs we can actually feel for the characters.
If i read this book as a teen i would for sure see all the abuse as romantic, especially with the apologies, the begging, and even him insisting that she has sex with him at the 1st time , like bruh that's harassment
But now as an adult, i did not see any romanticizing , on the contrary i felt the abuse described very well , cuz that's the trap of abuse , idk how to explain it but in reality people mix romance and abuse very often cuz you re in that situation because you fell in love in the 1st place . It s hard to run away from the abuser cuz there will always be this " romantic " manipulation
Thanks for your thoughts regarding Ryle. Even before he begins abusing Lily, he seemed to be bad news, not taking no for an answer, and his abuse appeared to be romanticised. Luckily, Lily doesn't stay with him, but other characters seem to constantly make excuses for his toxic behaviour.
When she was abused by the abuser, was the abusing worth the abuse? Bad, bad... he is a bad man. He abused... Yes.... Yes, yes, yes.... Yes, yes. I hope she isn't abu-- She is... abused. Would she leave him? Would she trust him again....? Abuse-buse, no more.
@@Lovicide This is your doctor, please take your medications.
@@confusedasian2212 Now I am... become the abused
Trina Q YOURE. EVERY. WHERE
By the way, I was originally translating Trina Q's comment. As in, this book is a masterpiece in stupidity. Repeating nonsense.
I'll never understand how CoHo can write a book trying to criticize abuse and how it's romanticized and understand that it's an abusive relationship whilst making most of her career about writing books with toxic/abusive relationships marketed as romance.
Like... she wrote an SA scene into a book with no warning and paired the rapist and victim up in the end. The only reason she removed it (after Twitter-fighting with a teenager who criticized it, I remember you Caleb my dude) is because enough people called it out and said that it's just not okay to do that.
I don't think a single book of hers isn't problematic or promotes bad messages. In one, the only reason the Protagonist gets anywhere is because the dude thinks she's hot, even though she killed his best friend (he somehow doesn't remember her mugshot). In another, she pairs a guy who burned down the girls house in a fit of grieving rage and gave her mental and physical trauma and somehow in the end, she apologizes to him for being mad at him when she found out.
I just don't understand. Her work is so harmful to young girls because these books are marketed as romance with zero trigger warnings.
Ayyy Caleb my mannn
It’s basically Twilight era again, but gen z version.
Wait what do you mean she paired them? Was the ending changed?
I've read a lot of problematic stuff in my life but they were all fanfics and you know what? Fanfics come with warnings! From time to time you can come across something truly vile, written probably by someone in place of therapy. And again - fanfic authors are self-aware enough to warn people about it
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 Legit. As an avid fanfic reader, I've read a lot of things that aren't romantic or nice. But at least on good websites (disregarding wattpad or Quotev), everyone is aware and the work has the appropriate tags and warnings.
I can't get past the names. Ryle, Allysa, Atlas, Lily Blossom Bloom?? Is it supposed to be silly? Considering this book is about an abusive relationship, I'm not sure I can take it seriously with these teenage fanfic-esque names.
lily blossom bloom?? lmaoooo 😭😭
@@girlboss5305 lily blossom bloom who runs a flower shop☠️☠️☠️☠️
Are names suppose to matter much in terms of the plot? Since names are not really something people have a control over in real life 🤔
It is quite possible to find a person having an uncommon name getting abused among us too and the name wouldn't have had any impact..then why in the book?
I thought it was meant as a lighthearted method of Bonding on the roof, bringing their relationship closer with silliness and jokes as well as serious talks and secrets only to catch us off guard with what is to come next
@@fictionlover695 its not about the plot but it just breaks the immersion, it's like if you were reading a fantasy book which is set in the middle ages and a super serious fight is happening and the character's name is Timmy Smith or some shit. Nothing is wrong about it but it just feels so uncanny. Lily is a fine name, but lily blossom bloom who also runs a flower shop? ehhh
@@fictionlover695 names matter. names are the first impression of characters, they can have relevance to the characters and be demonstrative of who they are, of the plot. ofc, in real life, names don't matter, but in the literary world it is so. for example, in 18th-19th century russian literature the comedy "The minor" (Nedorosl) by Fonvizin has almost all characters representative of their name. In modern fiction, the novel "Sharp Objects" by Gillian Flynn also has important names, specifically the A letter in most names is relevant to the plot.
I clicked on this so fast 😂 it annoys me to no end seeing how popular these books are and a really good video about Colleen is "A complete history on my feud with Colleen Hoover" by Caleb Joseph. He really dislikes her too which is obvious by the title lol and he was one of the first people to ever call her out.
Omg Caleb's video is literally one of my favorites and I watch it once everyday
that one part in the video where there's a sound in his house and he says "oh god it's Colleen, she's here to get me" is so funny to me for no reason.
@@platypusparasol9825 "i can't find my script! Colleen Hoover hacked into my computer and deleted it" 💀
@@arminarlert6011 watch it everyday lmao
so excited that a man carrying thing book review came out i accidentally slaughtered every single bourgeoisie in the US, freeing the working class. whoops
whoops
Sometimes those things just happen.
FREEDOM
Well shit, who are we gonna send to space to space now?
Jk man, tysm for your contribution 🥰
Man I hate when that happens
From the makers of “why does everyone love this book”, “why does everyone hate this book” and “why can nobody agree over this book” comes a relatable and humorous classic. “Why did everyone talk all polarized over his book like 5 years ago and nobody cares now (it’s ok I guess)”
I read that in the honest trailers guy voice!
How does ms colleen expect me to take lily blossom bloom seriously 💀
I work at a library and Hoover books are checked out absurdly fast lmao like the instant they're on the shelves they get checked out. A few of us working there have attempted to read her books but there's a consistent "well I muscled through that" attitude from those who've actually finished them lol
something i learnt recently is that she was a social worker. she saw families and homes in very vulnerable positions especially with domestic abuse cases and here she is romanticising it even though she has seen firsthand from her work experience and life what it does and causes. it’s wild. young kids are reading this and seeing the relationship in the book as an example and that’s not entirely great.
Sigh. Using peoples trauma. It’s a gig that pays
i’m 14 and in the end i love ryle still
@@melarie205 seek therapy
@@melarie205 higher your standards and notice red flags
Her father was abusive towards her mom and then she found herself in the same spot as an adult.
In defense of "simple" writing, it's harder than people think. I've beta read a lot of books by amateur writers, and writing their story in a way that's clear and easy to read is the most common issue they have. Also sometimes I just want the literary equivalent of McDonald's.
Ikr? I like a more "mature" and serious writing with strange, old words when the book want me to travel back in time somehow. But most of the time I prefer the juvenile (?) books more (like Harry Potter or Percy Jackson), with a simpler writing and a great timing of the facts and events! It really turns me off when a book tries really hard to be like a poem, but in the wrong environment or with just _too many_ details (and I love details!)
@@barbaramarianadeassuncaofr9210 there's something to be said here about the difference between simple and "wattpad-y" writing though. HP and PJO, for example, don't use big words or complicated sentence structures but the writing isn't over the top or didactic like Hoover's. I think simplicity here refers more to the lack of nuance than readability.
@@Simmi_ Why does every book need nuance? What's wrong with "Wattpad-y?" I've read two Colleen Hoover books and they were pleasant, easy reads. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Not every book needs to be Hemingway, just like not every movie needs to be Schindler's List.
Haruki murakami isn't famous for nothing
@@jessip8654 why are you riled up?
let me also point out that Atlas was 18 when he met 15 year old lily. And he straight up asked when she was gonna turn 16 and as soon as she did, yk what happened. I find it very hypocritical of the book since its whole message is escaping abuse and yet when she finally leaves Ryle, she gets with ....the guy who gr00med her.
age gap is not bad at all. i think our society decided 18 = adult one day and stuck with it. how come 15 and 18 isnt okay but 20 and 23 is fine?
@@za_noob_a it isn't about the "age gap" lmao. it is an adult and a child. the emotional maturity difference between 15 and 18 is no where like that of 20 and 23. (plus it is illegal :). )
@@za_noob_a 20 and 23 are legal and 15 and 18 aren’t 😊
@@jillann2143 YES thank you 🤝
@@za_noob_a are you actually mentally insane?
It's fascinating to me that this is apparently a beloved internet book, because this is by far the most positive review of anything written by Colleen Hoover that I have ever seen. I guess The Algorithm™ thinks that I would hate her and only exposed me to the backlash against her popularity lol
Tbf people on the internet are usually more vocal about things they hate. I've seen a lot of positive videos about this book in the booktube community tho.
Yeah I’ve noticed the hate and it was kind of overwhelming. It’s been especially weird for me as well since I loved the book, and I thought it had a great message
@@adannayoutube4243 literally how??
@@adannayoutube4243🧍🏻♀️
Same😂😂
It Ends With Us is definitely one of the books of all time.
Lol
Yes one of the worst
Yes! My favourite scene was when Lily said "it's endin' time" and ended everything with Ryle
This made me laugh
Ik this is a joke but I somehow refuse to believe this is an actual book lol
What concerns me most about CoHo is, how aggressively Pro-Life she is. Which imao shouldn’t be a big surprise, she is a white woman from Texas. However, her messaging in many of her books are disturbing. I’ve read 6 of her books and there are several teenage pregnancies and other unplanned pregnancies. Not ONCE are options like birth control, the pill, abortion or adoption discussed, all the characters immediately decide to raise the baby, even when they haven’t finished school yet, and somehow, this is treated as completely fine and pretty great, actually.
What makes me wonder is why does all her main characters in almost all her books get pregnant??
who cares
@@samu-chanme
@@humanbean4037 so what actions have you been taking since you care so much?
@@samu-chan what do u mean?
holy shit this is like wattpad level writing skills... i gotta dust off my old gay fanfics i wrote and pay these bills
What I really struggled with was whether the author realized what she was doing when she romanticized abuse and that she made the other characters make excuses for him over and over. On one had, the clunky writing and lines like "I still want to f$&_ you" made me think maybe she didn't realize what she was doing. But with how the story ends with Lily realizing it doesn't matter if he loves her or not, abuse is abuse and is not okay, maybe she did.
People familiar with abusive relationships know that the abuser and people do a lot of "spin" on the abuser's actions to make it seem like they're okay. I could easily see him reframing knocking on so many doors as something that would be sold as romantic in a Hallmark movie. And I've heard many people make excuses for "bursts" of anger or abuse on trauma.
So a lot of the actions were realistic things that could and would happen and made me feel like it was portraying what abusive relationships are like fairly accurately. Especially with Lily talking about "I use to think badly of people in my spot." But I agree there's this unshakable feeling that the book still excuses a lot of the abuse because "it's only occasionally" and "He's traumatized." Especially with her allowing him to live in her house leading up to her due date. So it's hard to really pin down where I fall on it.
Without having read this book, when I'm writing, the negative things I show are not being positively defended, but shown accurately as they happen in life so that readers can draw their own conclusions. I also write about the kind of relationships we fall into that we should avoid, but the point is to show how easily it happens, and have the reader shouting, no, don't do that - because they know better. I'm a novice, so perhaps this isn't how it should be done, but I want my readers to read damaged, flawed people and intelligently apply logic to the situation. If I write a relationship, there's only a 5% chance it will be healthy, and that the protagonist will initially understand what they're doing. Because that's real life. If you write someone who instantly recognizes an abuser as most of us do now, there's no character arc or learning for readers who might not. That's my thoughts anyway, as I can tell that the criticism of this author might also apply to my writing, although I cant stand romance, and it only has a character-driven role in my books.
@@Dontstopbelievingman I feel like the criticism for her might not be revelant for you, though, because you seem cognizant of what you're doing. And I think that's why I want to like it. Often times people think of others in abusive relationships as naive or maybe even stupid. "How could you not have known?" But this book shows that anyone could end up in a relationship like this and it's a struggle to both admit that to yourself because of preconceived notions of abuse and it's hard to leave them in many different ways. I think showing this is important and can make a good book. The reader should know better, but should be able to empathize with the character.
My problem is that while, realistically, many characters defend his abuse it's hard to tell if the author is defending him or just trying to show an accurate portrayal of abuse. It's a bit difficult to separate what the characters believe and what the author believes. And I know you can show horrific things the characters don't see as wrong, but the author's voice still shows it as horrific and morally objectionable from reading lots of "grim dark" fantasy.
Her romanticising abuse is a very common thing in her books. Aside from this book, I've also read two of her other books (clearly without doing enough research), and she has a habit of writing about toxic characters and abuse and uses trauma as a plot twist (and it's also framed as a justification for abusive behaviour). And even in one of the other books (ugly love), it's supposed to be a romance, but the characters are just so awful, and there's absolutely no character development by the end. So even though this book is supposed to call out abuse, her other books have the exact same traits, but they're framed as a romance.
I think you would really enjoy Natsume Sōseki’s Kokoro. It’s a wonderfully affecting novel that touches on the nature of relating the self to others, purity of ideals, and regret. It’s a short read, but it’s one of the most wonderfully insightful books I’ve ever read. It’s given me so much to think about and discuss with other people who’ve read it. I don’t want to say too much, but again, thoroughly recommended.
i second this.
Colleen Hoover will never be an Ace Attorney character.
I’ll add that to my list
Absolutely. In fact, a lot of Sōseki's work is great, though in differing ways. Kokoro and the trilogy beginning with Sanshirō are probably the best, with the former being darker and more poignant and the latter being a better depiction of a man who becomes increasingly isolated and struggles to change his own fate. If you ask me they're better than most Western 20th century literature (apart from writers like Hesse, for instance). Certainly a very strong recommendation.
colleen hoover readers are basically people who never had a cringey wattpad phase when they were a teenager and now reading colleen as an adult
I'm in high school, and it's annoying and how many girls read her books and expect their lives to be like that, and make references to the book all the time. The talk about it so much, that I, a male read the book, and it's straight up repulsive, and that point, just watch corn
Tbh, this book made me realize I was in an abusive relationship. 😅 I was reading this book while he sat across from me when I realized I was in a 5-year relationship that was abusive but I kept making excuses for the both of us. I don't like other CoHo books, but this one is special to me.
Omg congrats for escaping that relationship! I'm very glad the book could help you :)
while reading this book i did find myself manipulated by Ryles words and considering his argument of "loosing control" and then i realized what this books does so well, which is putting you in the victims mentality.
A lot of people love to judge the victims of domestic abuse by saying "why didnt she leave?" "its her fault for staying, i would've left the first time he laid hands on me" but what this book does so well (and maybe what could be so negatively controversial about it as well) its the fact that it kinda makes you root for the abuser, for the relationship, it makes you pity him and try to understand where he is coming from, like the victims themselves do, and you realize why its not as easy to "just leave". Its wrong for making you sympathize with the abuser, but Its eye opening for those who have never been in that situation, you understand the victims better.
My first name is Colleen! You saying my name alone makes this video a masterpiece of cinema.
And to answer your question: I am doing this to you because you are carrying too many things.
Congratulations on being named Colleen, it's a beautiful name, and it should be used for more character names in the future.
Get em, Colleen! That'll teach him not to carry so many things!
I also think the blandness was the point, cliché romances are popular on tiktok, so she needed those followers to not notice the red flags, like lily didnt. its starts off like any other romance, but then the abuse starts and it catches you off guard and you look back thinking, oh those red flags actually did turn out to be horrible unlike other romances where similar red flags dont turn out to be a problem
@@hyathumibis5187 shes not the only one to do this, fifty shades of grey, the deal, punk 57 etc all toxic men that are romanticized
I havent read any other colleen hoover book, only this one, but this book did not romanticize toxic relationships, it showed how hard it is to not see red flags, to not fall for gaslighting, and to leave, it allows readers to see what it is like for woman who do stay, one of the best qoutes from the book is "shouldn't there be more distaste in our mouths for the abusers than for those who continue to love the abusers?" Because in society a lot of the time the ones who stay are the ones at fault "because they should just leave" but it isnt that simple
@@Jme397 She is obviously not the only one but she is one of the biggest to do so, arguably the biggest. Additionally, I think there is a difference between some of the other examples you've mentioned and Colleen Hoovers books. Shades of Grey for an example is seen in a totally different light than Hoovers books. Shades Of Grey is seen more as an erotica and less as an actual serious body of literature. Hoovers books on the other hand are perceived as these deep and tragic romances. (Shades of Grey for an example has an average score of 3.66 on Goodreads while Hoovers books can have a rating up to almost 4.5) Another aspect is the target group. Hoover clearly writes for a younger audience, her books are labelled as YA and NA and she is clearly enjoyed by a lot of teen girls while Shades Of Grey attracts a more adult target group.
And I don't want to say that "It Ends With Us" is free of any useful messaging. I actually think that it can teach people the thing you mentioned. But there are so many aspects of Hoovers work and that includes "It Ends With Us" that send so damaging and toxic messages to the readers. I think the premise of It Ends With Us and therefore also it's commentary could be so much better in the hands of a better writer.
@@hyathumibis5187 @Hyathumibis have you actually read 50 shades of grey? Thats the definition of glorifying a toxic relationship to the point it had a lot of woman, specially younger woman into thinking what he was doing was "hot" and what they wanted in a relationship, when it was extremely toxic, she even married him in the end, and back when it was first popular it was as big as colleen hoover books. Her books are definitely not young adult, its always in the adult section of book stores, unless you talk of her book 'heart bones' which is YA, as i said i cant speak for her other books, and i can agree she could have done some aspects better, but i think thats the point, she knows her target audience and thats how she chose to put her point across
@@Jme397 Interesting how you say Hoover’s books are not young adult considering that is primarily the main audience who reads them. There are only really two types of people who read and actively enjoy her books - those that don’t actively read anything but her or other similar painstakingly bad books by different authors (hence why Punk 57 as you mentioned, had a brief bout of popularity until people realised it was even worse than Hoover) so consider her books gospel, incredible, the best etc etc. Then there’s the ones that just actively enjoy badly executed pure trash, typically women over 30 judging by the Facebook groups I’m in where they all rave about her. A brief look at TikTok would show clearly how romanticised the relationships in Hoover’s books are, and it’s not because she wrote it that way to make a point (she is not that clever.). People as young as 14!! probably younger too (not to mention older people of course) love Ryle. They think Atlas, who is literally a groomer, is also a saint on Earth.
I’m a little confused why you brought 50 Shades into this considering it and Hoover’s books are quite different. One is marketed towards adults, for starters. Hoover’s are marketed directly towards young adults despite the rating they are given, and young teens who shouldn’t be reading them are constantly being encouraged and influenced to read them. Walk into any book store, and Hoover’s *will* be on direct view, usually in a ‘BookTok’ section, or in a YA section. I’ve never seen them anywhere else.
I saw a TikTok where different bookstore workers in America were explaining that their managers kept putting Hoover books in the YA section, so they had to keep removing them and putting them in NA/Adult sections. I see 13 year olds saying they are mature enough to read the book, and don’t see anything wrong with it, even after reading it.
@@ellie27 you didnt make much sense, fifty shades of grey was popular when i was a teen in school, and everyone around my age was reading it, it was just as hyped for our age and older, Most colleen hoover books are not YA, the characters not only are older than YA characters i have never seen her in the YA sections, unless specific books like heart bones. yes booktok sections, but tiktok isnt just for young adults it just became popular on that platform because readers liked it, we cannot stop younger audiences from reading explicit books because they dont have R ratings like movies do, doesnt mean they are the target, cause this book is not a ya book. And i cant speak for her other books like i have stated heaps, im only speaking for this one book, and it depicted abuse accurately, and how woman are blamed for staying, but reality, its not easy to leave, and the abuser will make the victim think its their fault or they will never do it again etc, not only that but its based on her own mothers story, a real life story. The only people romanticizing this book are specific readers, because this book definitely doesnt romanticize abuse
As someone who works in a bookstore and never was going to read this, I thank you very much for this review.
this girl in my class who’s a total annoying pick me and my ELA teacher are always talking about how they loooove colleen hoover and her books are so deep and sad and amazing works of literature and how they cried for 2 days reading ugly love and i just sit at the desk thinking like… are you fr right now? “we laugh at our sons big balls” “lily blossom bloom” i’m thinking like did we… read the same book??
Is it shitty for me to say, but do pick me girls love CoHo?
Bruh not the english teacher 😭😭😭
I love listening to you talk about books so much
OK so I feel like sharing my opinion as a romance fan is essential to this conversation so here it goes. I am a fan of the romance genre, specifically paranormal romance and dark romance. While paranormal romance is a genre that most people recognize and understand fairly well, dark romance is far less universally known and understood. Dark romance is a romance genre that includes dark themes (big surprise) and in particular tends to walk the line between romance and abuse. The love interests in dark romance novels are almost never good people, and they don't even necessarily have the main character's best interest at heart. Outsiders may wonder "why the hell would anyone want to read that" but I would compare it to horror and specifically pretty graphic horror or slasher movies. The events that play out in a horror movie aren't ones that you'd ever want to have play out in your real life, but there's a sort of thrill present from living vicariously through the main character that is going through this sort of thing. Also, fictional danger is thrilling in the way that a rollercoaster is thrilling, except moreso than a rollercoaster you have the ultimate safeword by being able to stop reading. You, the reader, are ultimately in control. Many dark romance fans (myself included) have sexual or romantic trauma and read dark romance as something cathartic.
However, one thing that I think is super important to dark romance is the informed consent of the reader. There is an unspoken contract in place between author and reader that basically says "I, the reader, will not take the events within this book as an uncritical endorsement of the actions of the characters or a depiction the opinions and viewpoint of the author. In turn, I, the author, will provide appropriate warnings for the reader regarding the content in the book that could be upsetting or triggering." You can't write dark romance on accident; it is a purposeful playing with the lines between what is acceptable and unacceptable in a romantic or sexual relationship. To me, whether or not dark romance "romanticizes abuse" isn't really the most pressing thing here, what's more important is whether authors of mainstream romance include dark or abusive traits or themes without realizing or even considering it to be a red flag. I don't know whether Colleen Hoover considers her works to be dark romance (I'm not particularly interested in her works mostly because they're contemporary romance and that's not really my style) but regardless, there are some things mentioned in this book that exist as common tropes within all romance that I do find concerning.
TL;DR: some people like romance novels that toe the line between romance and abuse, but that transgression must be intentionally written on the part of the author and intentionally consumed on the part of the reader.
Hi just genuinely curious but where do dark romance readers draw the line?like I just read they can read abusive themes but is there a thing that's hard pass or no?as a psychology student reading about effects of media on people,I am curious,just from psychological sense not morally or anything
Also coho books are usually ya without any tws because she doesn't likes them
@@vrindasharma8841 It really depends on the reader just like with horror! I've noticed that most dark romances tend to lean more toward exaggerated forms of unhealthy relationships over more common ones. For example, I've read several dark romances with kidnappings in them but something like gaslighting is rare. Probably because one is more common to have actually experienced than the other. When themes of dubious consent are present, typically the main character is in some way curious about or secretly enjoys what is going on. or might struggle with her attraction to the dangerous male lead. It's a pretty common reason for being interested in real-life consensual non-consent, where someone wants to be able to pretend that they don't want it while secretly wanting it. In a dark romance, the love interest will introduce the main character to things about herself that she didn't know she had but secretly needed all along. By the way, I use she/her pronouns to describe the main character because the dark romance that I've read is mostly M/F with the man taking the role of the aggressor or reverse harem (aka many men one woman) with similar dynamics, though I have some sapphic dark romance on my TBR.
@@northstarjakobs thank you for telling me so calmly people usually get angry,I personally read a lot of messed up stuff for my degree so I am not one to judge anyone,I just wanted to know as I don't read the genre myself but I have been curious
Thank you for recommending some truly great books. Me and my dad love blood meridian!
Glad you enjoyed it!
One of the best and most terrifying books I've ever read
Thought that was an interesting point about very rich people in romance novels/stories. Like 50 Shades of Grey would not be considered romantic if it wasn't a rich guy, it'd be a horror story
I haven't read any Colleen Hoover books, but it sounds to me that Laura Dean Keeps Breaking Up With Me does everything she was attempting to do despite being a YA graphic novel. The framing device is the lead emailing an advice columnist and most of the inner monologue/conflict is told through those emails. It's not an abusive relationship, but it is a toxic one and Mariko Tamaki does an amazing job of keeping things subtle in a way that you understand why the lead is still with the titular Laura Dean while also seeing how her on and off again relationship with this person is damaging other parts of her life. It never glorifies their relationship while also never admonishing the lead for being in the relationship in the first place or even for going back. It's just such a good story and I wish it and Mariko Tamaki was as popular as Colleen Hoover is.
This was a nice book, I remember reading it a few years ago expecting a romance but what we got was so much better
I just read Laura Dean keeps breaking up with me and wow I agree with your assessment! I think Laura Dean did a very good job of not glorifying a toxic relationship while not vilifying Freddy (the lead) even tho it’s heartbreaking to see her go back to Laura over and over.
Hi this is Ellen Degeneres and I like the part of the book that’s about me
hi ellen, big fan
@@ManCarryingThing thanks me too. Of me
Everything about that book gave Wattpad not AO3 cause quality there is better
I've read the book and while I liked the premise, I think the execution could've used a lot more work.
2.6/5 should've had more elves
Agreed. Every book could use more elves.
trust me nobody on the internet reads books
Reject modernity (books), embrace tradition (clay tablets)
@@unholycrusader69 based
Also, none of us are women.
I appreciate the various camera angles and backgrounds, keeps it visually interesting.
Everytime you carry a longer video *the end is near*
one of the most significant reasons why i always had mixed opinions about this book was also because of lily's hypocritical behaviour, which is situated in the book for obvious reasons because they want her to experience how getting out of an abusive relationship is extremely hard but her "i'am never gonna be like my mother" behaviour just made me question how she never ever questioned ryle's behaviour until he finally physically hurts her, she never seemed to hold even a little bit of skepticism against him and almost easily trusted him, and again people who grew up in abusive households have the tendency to be easily manipulated but the way lily's character was introduced, as a morally righteous person, who was shown to be quite observant of her father's behaviour made me feel weird as to why she had absoulety no trust issues when getting into a relationship with ryle, correct me if i'am wrong or if i'am missing something because i might be projecting my own personal experiences and other people might have other experiences with how abuse shaped their personalities but lily seemed pretty one dimensional to me at times.
I totally agree, I think people that grew up in an abusive environment have the tendency to develop trust issues, nobody is as naive as Lily. Especially if the person already decided not to become like their parents.
Otherwise I think that Colleen did a great job depicting how hard it can get sometimes to cut out people you love or to become aware of certain red flags, if everything else seems perfect. Especially the judgement towards our parents, I get Colleens message.
True. The first time she saw her was him kicking a chair. That itself is a sign of hot temper and I would have avoided such a person right from then.
More like people who grew up in abusive environments tend to gravitate subconsciously to abusive people, which might look like being easily manipulated I guess, and are turned off by stability
what i don’t get is how in this book, colleen hoover presents ryle’s behavior as abusive but gives those some abusive traits to other love interests from past books without it ever being questioned
I've read two Colleen Hoover books because friends recommended them (this being one of them) and I hated them both. And I love silly cheesy romances, I love books that are simple, but Colleen Hoover is this weird style of heavy topics done too simple. Both books made me mad with the way things were done or talked about. With this book, I fully agree with what you said about the "Jekyll and Hyde" thing, that's absolutely how it's treated and it was frustrating. It was a serious issue and no one was taking it seriously, I felt like I was going crazy. And don't get me started on Ugly Love. I don't know how everyone likes it, I've never been more angry with a book before. 😅
Its like that one crunchyroll anime that was "marketed towards adults" but explained being trans like how you would explain the concept to an elementary schooler
It ends with us is her least problematic book. Her older books actually romanticize the abuse. November 9 and Ugly Love... oh my
Thank you for sharing your thoughtful content…for putting it out there with the passion that many of us need and strive for. I'm starting to listen to you almost every morning. Your voice and words feels real and genuine.
I am grateful to have your channel as a source for having a better relationship with myself and the world around me.❤️
This is absolutely not how I usually judge books but looking across the board, you notice a specific type of people that like this book and people that don't. The people who do are generally younger and are new to reading. While seasoned readers or people who have been reading since they were children, hate it. This tells me everything I need to know about it.
I’m kind of ashamed to admit that I actually enjoyed reading this book (I only started reading again recently & her book is so easy to read). I’ve seen many people said they saw many red flags early on while reading this book. I was really shocked because I never sensed anything until the abuse actually happened. What worse is I actually fell hard for Ryle. I know a lot of people hate this book but it has actually open my eyes on this issue. I probably didn’t see the signs because I’ve been abused a lot when I was young (one of my parent is a narcissist & the other is just mostly never there) that I ended up being too much of a people pleaser now & can be easily manipulated. I can see myself forgiving Ryle when he was so miserable if I were Lily & that really scares me. I contemplated my past relationships a lot & I realised how badly I let my exes treated me & never really knew how to defend myself. So this is just one of the things that made me realise I need to heal & work on myself if I want to stop that cycle & be in a healthy relationship instead :’)
same ! I hate the fact that i liked this book but seeing all this reviews and actually seeing what it really is makes me wanna rip the book apart 😭😭
I don't like to admit it but I was basically in the same situation. I thought Ryle, the successful rich bad boy, literally chasing after Lilly was so romantic and I didn't mind the sex scenes at first or how unrealistic it is, but then the book became so triggering and so gross to me and in the end I felt like the main character learnt nothing but somehow still got everything she wanted including staying in contact with the abuser. I just felt so disgusted and betrayed
I always had to defend my extremely negative opinion of this book, but I didn't have enough of a good arguement, sort of a scratchy one. And now I know full well why this book bugged me so much! Thank you! You're much like jasnah kholin!
Always love your book reviews. Have you considered doing a "Why DOESN'T the internet love this book?" series for underrated things that you think need more love?
I really like your book reviews. You're captivating to listen to despite me not reading any of the books you talk about.
This is the last video I would've expected from MCT but that only makes me love it more.
honestly, from the title i wouldve expected some epic story about maybe two ex spys taking out the organization they used to work for because it has turned evil, having to kill their former friends and collequges for the greater good, a story about doing the right thing even if it costs you, about betrayal, loss, and the dark side of the every coin. why? because Commander Jane Shepard ends her speech with that line, prior to starting a suicide mission to take down a threat of galactic proportions.
I thought it was about some Paranormal Curse that haunts every generation
Some horror thriller novel
But the cover didn't give that vibe
(still it could be for the vibe, I have seen plenty of horror/Psychological thriller themed mangas/webtoons etc having a Pastel theme and cute drawings while portraying a plot that is anything but that
The contrast gives a deep symbolism of paranoia and underlying creepiness, like something bad is about happen even though everything till now was fine, heightens the suspense)
@@fictionlover695 yeah, that one is also great! to give a little context to mine, i was just going off the title, didnt involve the cover
These are still my fav types of videos you make. Thank you!
Tbh, one of the best depictions of domestic @bus€ I’ve ever read was Beverly’s relationship with Tom in Stephen King’s “It”. It’s not just that the @bus€r is consumed by anger, it’s that they literally want to control the very essence of a person. King portrays that exceptionally well before Tom goes to Derry. The fact that Bev is leaving doesn’t upset Tom… It’s that she is defying him by smoking and not acknowledging his power/ “rules” over her. Her leaving never really seems like a threat because of the power he has over her… and he doesn’t care about HER, he cares about his power over her. I get that Hoover may have wanted to flip the romance genre, but idk… she could’ve dropped the troupes and just wrote a better book with similar themes.
Have you written books yourself? I would like to read them. I like your take on books. You take them serious and are respectful of the writer and the effort he or she took to write it. If i were a writer and got a review of my book by you i would consider that a compliment, even if the review itself is not that positive.
From the summary of events and writing style, this seems like a book KrimsonRouge would review.
Love it when short sketch dude randomly does short video essays /gen 😊
its so nice to see someone on the internet with sense thank you
This is exactly why I love books like "Fordi jeg elsker deg" (Because I Love You) by Helene Uri. It starts as what the main character think is a Hollywood movie come true - only to experience some really troubling things in her relationship.
All the bad things she experiences with her boyfriend starts small, but after a while it grows to the point where she doesn’t know how to feel about their relationship.
The book is clear in how the abuse is *not* okay and how it can escalate without the main character noticing it until it’s almost too late. I also appreciate that the target audience is teens aged 14 and up. This gives them a chance they to read/watch romanticized abuse in media and *know* it’s not normal. I wish these kinds of books were the popular ones.
I was reading the book and something about her relationship with Ryle just didn't sit right with me. I kept telling my bf (who read the book before me) that I am not onboard with this ship. It just seemed too fast and shallow for some reason, and then when the oven scene happened it all made sense. The author had been building up to that the whole time.
Off-topic but have you watched Greg Guevara? Because I faintly remember seeing you in his comment section, but it might've just been a similar profile picture.
@@cassiopeia8066 Yess i have, I love his videos, main channel as well as the side channel :) Ur username looks familiar too but my mind might just br making that up, cool seeing u here tho!
@@SoVidushi HAHA what a funny coincidence i love his videos as well
Haven’t read the book or even heard of the author, but you are so entertaining I enjoyed listening to your take! Keep up the great vids :)
Love your videos, keep carry, man.
I knew this book as bad, but I didn't know it was THAT bad until I heard the reading excerpt at 2:41
Reminds me a lot of fifty shades of gray.
lily blossom bloom
Hi my name is Lily Blossom Bloom
Dude your videos are so fun to watch haha.
Pertaining to the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde thing with Ryle:
I read this years ago and the thing that really stuck with me was the attitude of "oh well he only loses control with me, he would NEVER hurt his daughter" 🤮
Like, girl, I know you have to share custody because the law, and it's bad form generally to badmouth your coparent, but don't pretend like the second that child crosses him he isn't going to do what he does 🙄
Atlas was dreamy though, which is why I'll suffer through the new one just to experience him again.
Okay so honestly- It ends with us depending on how much you know about it going in and what mood your in can either hit or you not. I knew nothing about this book just that it was popular. I was kind of floored and having been through bad shit before it kind of hit that spot. I reread as soon as I finished it and it almost seems like these were intentional choices- the blandness of the writing and stuff like the character names (Lily Blossom Bloom 👀👀) make it seem like CoHo is intentionally writing it as a typical wattpad level bullshit. Then when the abuse happens you really fucking floored because honestly I really was surprised.
But here in lies the problem- when I tried to read her other books…literally all of CoHos books are abusive relationships??? All of them! It completely invalidates the point and whatever powerful messages It Ends With Us has- because by all mean CoHo male love interests in every other book of hers are Ryle exactly?? Like wtf??
I didn't read the other books but I agree with what u said. Those were my thoughts too so I didn't understand why people were saying she romanticizes abuse..
I was in the opinion that CoHo has masterfully described an abusive situation by putting us in the shoes of Lily and letting us see the victim's point of view, letting us engage with Ryle along with being a spectator
Then she created an atmosphere of silliness and simplicity, giving us the vibe that it was going to be a normal romance between 2 people who were fated to meet on a roof to talk about secrets, trauma and find closure
She made sure to intentionally conceal any traces of the real ongoings by the silly names and interactions as a distraction
And build up till the very moment of abuse
Successfully shocking the readers
(It felt like a moral lesson too, how it isnt easy for victims to leave an abusive situation. Lily thought her mom should've left and disdained her slightly for not doing so only to realise she herself was unable to
In turn this would make the readers realise how difficult it truly was as they got attached to the character of Ryle and coming to the same decisions as Lily for forgiving him at the early start
Also that ur never truly safe. Lily believed she won't be like her mom cuz she has seen what an abusive relationship looks like but she was wrong. Although trusting someone so easily seems a bit skeptical, and as someone mentioned, makes her seem 1 dimensional, different people think differently)
Now I m not so sure what to believe
@@fictionlover695 you describe my thoughts exactly. I almost wish I didn’t read her other books so I could retain how hard It Ends With Us hit me. It just seems like there is this huge disconnect with CoHo intentionality?? Like she is capable of writing something powerful like this story but just doesn’t see the same behavior in her other book characters and their relationship? It’s like she gets in her head an idea for a relationship like a trope for it she wants to execute in a book of hers but she herself is not thinking critically about the portrayal. The only reason it seems that It Ends With Us ended up the way it did is because it’s somewhat modeled after her moms story. Which is super poignant but how does CoHo not recognize all this alarming behaviors in her other male leads?
She got it in her to write a story about abuse and overcoming it. And from the place it’s coming from it seems Coho full heartedly believes it too. But then when she gets in her head to write stuff like Teacher/Student romance (yep she did that) or Step Sibling romance (she did that too)- she not thinking about how unhealthy it is- she thinking it about how much taboo, flair, and drama it will create in her story.
Librarian here. Of our top 20 most circulated books last year, ten of them were Hoover titles. The sequel to "It Ends with Us" just came out, "It Starts with Us". All the copies in all the formats are checked out.
More short book reviews. I love this more than the memes. The longer, the better. Perfect lunchtime videos.
i wonder how you'd feel about the book Girl Made of Stars by Ashley Herring Blake. it's a young adult novel that's a very easy and quick read. it's a similar topic, dealing with loving an abusive person, but it's like Alyssa's perspective as a sister where she has to deal with her brother abusing her friend and what it means to still love a person who did that. i'd say it handled it better, especially for being explicitly YA and not just an adult book written in that style, so you could give it a lot more credit. if you want to read more books about this conversation and the message they sent i'm curious if you'd think that one was better, though it's obviously got a different narrative and circumstances so it's not going to replace It Ends With Us completely.
i was able to knock it out in 2 afternoons just sitting in the cafe at the bookstore so i didn't even have to take it home.
lmao i was at the airport and saw this book stationed on a garbage can.
i mean even the way you said its like a dr jekyll/ mr hyde thing, even in that book the actions of hyde affect jekyll and are part of his wants and it sort of shows his behaviour cant really be separated entirely into 2 separate entities
someone mentioned one time that colleen hoover books are for the people that never went through a wattpad phase and i haven’t stopped thinking about it since then
Spoiler alert: there are some rumors spreading on the internet that it will be adapted into a live-action movie where the abusive relationship would be romanticize into a 'love triangle drama'. So yeah, our worst fear has come.
Your carpet looks brand new. Are you filming in a carpet store?
yes
this is the first actual video essay I've seen you post instead of a joke one but I guess to make those jokes well you have to do it yourself!
Collen Hoover is a menace to the public
Tbh, the only thing that drives me to her are her novel’s titles. Whoever pick them knew what they were doing: it’s brief, simple yet powerful and promises such a good story. But that was it; just with reading the synopsis I knew the book wouldn’t live up to its name so I didn’t bother to try it further.
😅My younger self went through so many shitty confusingly-toxic “romance” stories to not recognize what this story would end like. You really need to read your fill on them right until the betray comes directly from the author rather than the characters for their bad choices, then read a few stories which deal better with such storylines so that it hit home where the problem is at. Can’t count how many times I got angry reading stuff like that until I learn it was dumb to keep reading it if things weren’t going to change...
My biggest issue with booktok, is mainly the fact that nowadays people rely on only soley reading "BookTok" recommended books. Unlike back then where we read whatever the hell we wanted. I mean, don't get me wrong, people can read whatever they want for all I care but when they say they "enjoy reading" is it actual literature that they enjoy or is it simply over-hyped books which they wouldn't even notice or care to read unless it was hyped up all over social media...Lmao just imagine the future of this generation, instead of talking about Shakespeare or other great prominent writers in history, they're talking about those simple trouped books that was popular on tiktok decades ago.
This book was epic my friend who introduced me to Colleen ranted to me about it and spoiled it all with my permission. But I read it anyways and ended up liking it!!!
I honestly love Colleen’s writing because I’m intuitive and I loathe over descriptive writing. So Colleen’s books are always a treat. ❤
The upside down perspective is just **chef's kiss**
I'm not surprised that people enjoy reading Hoovers work because its easy and spicy to read but I am baffled that so many people actually think it's good literature.
The Goodreads top 50 most popular list is littered with Colleen Hoover books. Needless to say, a lot of people were confused.
youve kinda gotten me back into reading
loved this
You talking about this book made me think that every Colleen Hoover reader should read 'Big Little Lies' by Liane Moriarty instead
Liane Moriarty is a great author. Nine perfect strangers is a perfect book.
Dude I have this book and it's so wattpad-like
I’m currently reading Daisy Jones & The Six and I have so many of the same problems as I had with It Ends with Us, I don’t understand why so many people love it!
Love the dress shirt-sweatpants combo, my man
I was so close to purchasing this book because EVERYONE was reading & talking about it but something told me this book wasn’t really worth it. Watching this video makes me happy that I didn’t purchase it. Thank you!
I think if Hoover hadn’t written her other books with these extremely odd, borderline (if not explicitly) abusive love interests, then perhaps this book could stand alone as a discourse in healthy relationships and red flags. And I know she has said that she wrote this based on her mother’s experience, which I can appreciate and respect. However, it’s difficult to narrow down the nuances between Ryle and any other character in her separate timelines. It feels like the only difference is Lily becoming aware of her situation, whereas Hoover’s other characters are weary but end up being persuaded to stay on account of their love interest’s traumatic past. November 9 is a great example of that. The whole twist is…genuinely disgusting. And in the case of that book, if it were a thriller, it would be extremely interesting, but she’s teetering the line between that and romance and that’s where the danger lies.