why I won't see THE UNFRIEND at the Criterion Theatre ft
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- čas přidán 10. 02. 2023
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OHMYGOD HEY!
Although I see a LOT of theatre in the UK as a critic, one show that I decided not to request review tickets for was THE UNFRIEND, currently playing at the Criterion Theatre in the West End.
The comedy, written by Steven Moffat and directed by Mark Gatiss stars, among other cast members, the actress Frances Barber whose social media comments have long betrayed her feelings towards the trans community.
In today's new video I'm joined by my peer and friend, Ellie Talks Theatre, as we unpack why it isn't as straightforward as it seems to separate the art from the artist.
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#theatre #westend - Zábava
This video spoke to (and broke) my heart. I dated a beautiful transgender woman for 3 years and the vitriol she and other trans women have had to endure is absolutely horrific. I want it to stop. Thank you for sharing your platform with Ellie.
Thank you for speaking up. If all transphobia were obvious (death threats, "kys," etc), the ultimate goal of such hateful rhetoric would be clear: the disappearance of the targeted group, whether it's into the closet or into the ground.
"Separating the art from the artist" only really applies when the artist is dead. At that point and that point alone it might be possible.
I very much agree!
I think it depends a bit on what the artist did/is doing...and what kind of art it is and if people are able to "reclaim" it.
@@Simplenotion yes....like if the person is just an asswipe it is easier to enjoy their art vs the person actions are what become problematic (as in sexual harrassment)....and i know it is probably not the best way to describe but i hope you understand
@@PS-DLMA with sexual harassment for me personally the line would be hugely overstepped. I would not listen to their music anymore and try to not give them a cent of my money...there are people though who have done questionable stuff of lower caliber that I still listen to.
right, and if they're continuing to benefit from the consumption of their work (through money or renown, for example), there can never be true separation.
Great discussion @MickeyJoTheatre - you are absolutely right that if the issue was racism or homophobia, there would be no debate about this whatsoever. The victimisation of the Trans community at the moment is heartbreaking, and the ignorance surrounding it - wilful or otherwise - is so deeply frustrating and sad. Thank you also for introducing me to Ellie, I'll be checking out her stuff!
I saw the play last month and loved it, but I was totally ignorant about all this. If I´ve known beforehand, I wouldn´t have seen it I think... But when I posted a positive review on fb about it, people already got pretty agressive towards me for seeing it, please people, I don´t live in the UK, I don´t use twitter.... So thank you two for talking about it. Theatre should be a safe environment for everybody.
Thanks for sharing this issue and raising awareness.l won't be seeing the show now. Nobody should ever sit in a theatre feeling unsafe or excluded. That's the exact opposite of what theatre should be. Heart breaking to hear how this has understandably impacted Ellie.
As Ellie mentioned with Doctor Who, there are a huge amount of LGBTQ+ fans of Doctor Who with many finding the show a safe space for their own differences to the ‘norm’. This is hugely disappointing with obviously Moffat and Gatiss being hugely tied in with the show (DW) it’s even more upsetting. The issue is this topic goes deeper, like a recent article on the stage talking about how people shouldn’t pile on reviewers who give a negative review and suddenly out of nowhere the writer suddenly says she admires these comments and basically that being transphobic is controversial in the arts (like yes of course it fucking is)
Get a brain
Thank you for this video. I am not on twitter as I generally find it a pretty negative part of the internet so without this video I would not have been aware of the transphobic comments that were made. My cousin is a beautiful trans woman and when we sat next to my nan as she passed away last year, my cousin's tears were for the fact that she never had the chance to be her true self with my nan. Between covid restrictions and my nan's dementia the conversation was never really possible. Seeing the pain that my cousin experienced with that reality has made me even more proactive in my attempts to learn more, support more and ensure that I don't support those who are actively using their platforms to express anti-trans rhetoric. So again, thank you to you both for furthering my education xx
Get a brain
Thank you form bringing this to light and talking about it you two. I didn’t know about either actress and it’s really disappointing to see people like that get platforms.
I would not support any bigotry.
This is also why I have removed my self from The Harry Potter franchise.
I appreciate you and also for addressing this topic
Thank you for bringing Ellie into this conversation... I've loved Frances Barber for years. Hearing she's part of the people that try to invalidate who I am, who Ellie is... I have no words.
There is no place in theatre for this
Thanks for this. I'm a cis white bisexual female so I cannot speak to the trans experience at all here, but it truly saddens me as an ally to the trans community that this situation is still happening, especially in the theatre industry which is known for taking those considered 'different' under their wing. The conversation you've had here was very balanced and I'm glad that you did acknowledge the whole separating art from the artist thing as well, it's such a tough situation and I totally understand how it will be different for the trans community vs cis community in this situation. We get so much good content from you that I'm sure we'll all survive without a review of this show!
As an ally to the trans community this is a disappointment. Thank you for your discussion Ellie and Mickey.
Thank you for the education, I had no clue about either actress, it always shocks me when people aren;t accepting, I was a child/teenager in the 70s/80s and thankfully my parents taught me to accept everyone. They were quite progressive for those times, and I am so grateful. xx My heart and love goes out to you all. Off to sub to Ellie. xx
I think the point about the other people who work in the theatre - just in the building, not even necessarily the production - is a really good one. So many trans people work in theatre. I have a lot of trans friends who worked at Theatre Royal Bath and really struggled to go into work when Into The Woods was there because they didn’t feel safe and supported, and to this day the decision by the theatre to publicly support Gilliam has massively impacted their relationship with the venue.
Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion. I'm more active in the Anime/Manga/JRPG communites on social media platforms as that's my specific passion area, but with the recent release of a certain game have been targetted more & more from beyond my usual fandoms as an openly transgirl, so thank you for a wonderful discussion & insight into how others are feeling and being targetted too as I'm not gonna hide my gender nor disappear as "just because someone can look away & do nothing, doesn't make it right, if we ignore what's happening before our eyes, than we end up doing less than nothing for nothing will ever change", so in the words I would usually say to my community "Arigato Gozaimasu Tomodachis"
This is one of the most powerful and thought provoking videos I've ever seen. Thank you both. Mickey - for raising the issue and, as always, giving a very balanced view and opinion. Ellie - for the same, but for the amazing courage to speak on the issue. I can only imagine the pain you must feel in even discussing it.
I started watching it last night, but had to stop as it really affected me. I've just finished it now - and kept re-watching bits. And now I'm in tears. Ellie, I'm so so sorry for all the pain. Just so much love to you both x
So I saw The Unfriend and thought that the writing and directing were very on-point. I wasn't aware of Ms. Barber's comments before watching this video. I hope that in the future it will have a tour/revival with a different cast so that the trans community might feel more welcome to come and watch it. Thank you for uploading, it's been very eye-opening!
Thank you for Mickey for making this video and showing all of us the real thoughts behind this production. As an Ally and not necessarily in the community, I’m very happy to be able to pass forward Ellie’s contributions and emotions towards the Transphobia riddled with this show and uplift that, rather than not allow the community it is involved with speak. As a life-long DW and Sherlock fan, I am extremely disappointed that such actors/actresses can have these toxic comments pushed upon innocent young LGBTQ+ fans of those franchises (and I know many) and can ruin self-esteem, increase depression and be targeted for further hate. This is unacceptable and something I thought we were great at gatekeeping in our theatre community. It appears not. Thanks for shedding light to us who were oblivious of this movement and we will now greatly take this to heart with caution in other productions. Much love! ❤️
Thank you for this ❤
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It’s so heartbreaking and scary to hear what’s happening in the UK (here in the US it’s terrifying as well). We all deserve to feel safe and loved!
I don't live in the UK and never watched Doctor Who, but I love your channel and something told me to watch this, and I'm glad I did. Thank you for sharing this conversation; as someone who strives to be an active ally, I needed to watch it. I've always struggled with the concept of separating the art from the artist, but Ellie's explanation definitely made me more aware of things I need to consider surrounding that.
Why did you see Into the Woods in Bath then?
Thank you so much Mickey for making this video and holding the space for this conversation! Ellie, you spoke so eloquently and thank you so much for providing your point of view. The comments these actresses have made are deplorable but unsurprising given the current narrative in the UK and there is no justification for supporting this show!
As someone who lives in the US (we're having our own issues with transphobia rn), its been so disheartening to see what is going on in the UK as well. I have so many trans friends I know and love in the UK who are genuienly scared for their future there. Thank you so much for speaking up and using your voice to bring these issues to light and continue to be an ally to the trans community, and member of the lgbtq+ community I truly appreciate
Thank you for facing this head on! I wouldn't have known if you'd done this review. I was considering seeing it but can't because the casting feels like a betrayal of my nearest and dearest.
I love the considerations for the younger fans who may not know but have a bad experience.
Two of my favourite thetare channels in one video, but sadly not for the reason I would have hoped. It is just so sad that people still think transphobia and homophobia are still okay...
So sorry and disappointed to hear about the actors' views. Trans people deserve full human rights and respect. Speaking as a straight female who lives and works in Hollywood, everyone's entitled to avoid productions starring anyone they dislike for any reason. This is nothing new; it goes back to the earliest days of theater. You got problems with someone's attitude, you don't have to see their shows, full stop.
As a transgender person in the theatre world who loves your channel, thank you so much for speaking up about this, it means the world to me!
Both yours and Ellie’s viewpoints are put across so well. It’s a shame we need this conversations to happen as theatre should be a safe space
Great conversation, thank you both!
Thank you so much for talking about this and raising awareness (I wouldn't have known about the situation) - and for introducing us to Ellie!
I appreciate you sharing this. I'm not on Twitter & had no idea about Ms. Barbers divisive views. I was interested in this show but will give it a swerve now in solidarity.
Thank you for this. Both of you are very brave in speaking out. Theatre should be inclusive of all and that includes the staff, behind the scenes house. And nobody should be made to feel unsafe. I'm going to follow Ellie's channel now.
Its a bit of a JK situation here. If it was at that level where if you could look past it and keep consuming their content and they let lots and lots of money from it. It a question of its so blatant and staggering that it cannot be ignored. I need to look into this situation more to do an educate. Trans rights are human rights and we should as a society, not spreading such hatred.
You certainly can't see every show, and since you had the option to go or not, you are well within your rights. There are many actors/actresses I do not want to see or support because of their personal behaviors/attitudes in their real world lives. Anti-Trans/anti-gay attitudes/beliefs are INHUMAN attitudes/ beliefs. By not attending, you are sending a strong message. As you both point out so well, "Actions/attitudes have real consequences." I wouldn't see this show, either, for the same reasons. Thank You.
I don't feel I have a great anything of value to add too much because both of you so beautifully covered the topic as well as touching on the JK situation at the same time. What I will say is the sad reality of why these blogs ect still cover thing like this production & in my fandom theme park sites covering the Wizarding World (& the fact a new area will be a part of Universal's new park) or even the new game comes down to more clicks = more $. The mindset of "well if I don't cover it someone else will so I mine as well be the one making ad revenue" is what hurts most in a sense. I'll stop the rant there though cause at the end of the day we have to look ourselves in the mirror & face our decisions head on of how much we fight v how much we just give up/in.
Thank you for this- there is so much here that I hasn’t realised.
PS Ellie’s eye makeup is always amazing!
Isn't it! I could never
I made it trans themed for the occasion too lol
I agree with you Blake there’s so much I’m not aware of
Ellie’s make up is definitely amazing and love the trans theme
Thanks for this video….. I appreciate the discussion and broadening my mind.
The climate today is very scary. In my heart of hearts, I could not support a production that has a person or persons that have made anti-trans, anti-gay comments. It would not sit right with my soul. I support my whole community. No matter what.
It’s a good question on whether you can separate the art from the artist. I do not condone any of the behaviour. Trans rights and trans representation is incredibly important in theatre and we need more trans positive shows in the West End! However, if the show doesn’t have anti-trans content, is it right to avoid the show altogether? I’m not sure where I stand. I think it’s not right to financially support Amanda and Frances and therefore it’s not right to see the show. I think the casting is unacceptable but I do feel that this show should be reworked and come back with a new cast. This show has caused so much pain and it makes me mad that this is what is platformed in the west end. First, ALW and Cameron mackintosh’s views and now this. Why has the west end become a breeding ground for trans hate. Trans positivity, inclusivity and representation need to be made vital principles in the theatre- a place where you should be allowed to be whatever you want to be
If it came back with a new cast but without an apology or even addressing this situation at all, it still would not feel right to me, personally, to review it and support these creatives.
@@EllieTalksTheatre I agree. It’s not ok to brush these sorts of things under the rug. We need an apology. But if there was a heartfelt, full apology and possibly even a change in creatives, what’s stopping the show from coming back? What has been done is wrong and an apology is certainly needed. However, forgiveness is vital too. I understand I am not a trans person and I’m sorry if I am wrong or have crossed a line and offended you. I totally agreed with what you said about how we need to give trans people a seat at the table and more of a voice politically, as the trans community have faced so many human rights violations recently and this needs to be stopped. Forgiveness is important because saying you’ll never see the play or any of the artists work again means that in society, there will always be conflict. It’s fundamental that we call them out but we can’t label them as villains for the rest of our lives. I am not denying that we need an apology- before they realise the pain they’ve caused and publicly apologised, they cannot be forgiven. It’s important to remember that nobody is perfect and people need to root their views in love and even love people like Frances Barber, especially when they’re being ignorant dicks. However, this is easier said than done and I know it can be incredibly difficult, particularly as a trans person when someone doesn’t want you to exist. It’s unacceptable. There is too much hate in the world and not enough change. Despite the trans community making no mistakes and the transphobic massive spreading hate, the only solution is love from both sides, like in Romeo and Juliet (cheeky lil theatre reference). I’m so sorry if I am wrong or if I have hurt you. Please correct me if I am wrong. You’re a figure I look up to so much and I’d love to fix my mistakes if im wrong. Thank you for being an icon and continuing to fight a difficult fight. Lots of love, Josh ❤️
This is heartbreaking. I'm in the US, and was unaware of this show or this controversy. I don't follow these actors or their tweets. But Moffat and Gattiss have been so supportive of the LGBTQ+ community, it's hard to imagine how this casting happened. Surely they were not unaware of Abbington and Barber’s previous statements. As you discussed in the video, DW has been a tremendously queer-friendly space since the reboot, and I'm sure fans have been drawn to this show by those names.
Regarding your choice to not see or review the show: There's PLENTY of theater in the world, as you well know. I refuse to spend my money -- or TIME -- on artists who repel me.
Thank you for speaking out about this. Full support to the trans community ❤
You two bring up a good point that there are a lot of transphobes within the LGBT+ community. I recently unfriended someone I knew for over a decade because their transphobia has practically become their personality. And the wild thing is they are a lesbian.
And for the folks saying "you need to separate the art from the artist" and "this is getting political" - theatre has always been political and would you still say the same if the performer was openly racist, sexist, or anti-semetic? I don't think so.
The irony of getting an advert for Hogwarts Legacy on this video
That was an enlightening discussion. Thank you.
Everything in this videos feels so well articulated and expressed thank you both so much! And to any trans people in chat I hope you know that you are incredible and worthwhile
I don’t really like you but I have much respect for you for standing by your morals & refusing to see this production or promote it
White middle aged Cis woman here, felt the need to say that before saying how important this video was to watch. Thank you to you and Ellie for coming on and talking about this. I wouldn't touch this production with a barge poll but may have done had you not filled me in. I don't use twitter and don't Google the cast and their opinions on hate that they put out before seeing a show, so may have innocently gone along and supported it. In future, any big names that I know will be appearing in something I plan to see will be googled before I book the tickets. Thank you again x
I’m a cis straight man and I made exactly the same decision about this play.
Normally I’d have been right there watching it given I’m a Doctor Who fan and it’s a play written by Stephen Moffat who’s work I’ve always enjoyed, and Mark Gatis. But I Francis Barber’s inclusion was an absolute deal-breaker for me.
I cannot separate Art from The Artist.
eg - I cannot watch Pointless or Location, because both Alistair & Phil enjoy hunting & have posted disgusting pics of them with the deer (or whatever) that they have shot. I don't even want to look at them.
Hopefully, The Unfriended will get a new cast at some point.
thanks for such a thoughtful discussion, both of you. and im obsessed with Ellie's eyeshadow !! 🥰
I have loathed Barber for years, and was unaware of this particular production and am disappointed in both Gatiss and Moffitt for having this individual in the production.
Very great comment Ellie, separating art from the artist is a very valid comment but I can certainly understand the difficulty as the person being the one being targeted, as a cis heterosexual ally I would never support any of these people and I’m truly sorry to all my beautiful trans friends that they are being given this hate please know there are many of us who will always love and accept you x
Congratulations. A wonderful and nuanced video that deep dives into a very relevant and important issue. It’s a very complex conversation about topics so many of us just don’t understand and know how to respond to. All strength to you and all members of the trans community. ❤
THANK YOU for bringing this up! I felt quite alone at first for being critical of it for these reasons. Not many people I know, knew about the situation.
Thanks for raising our awareness, very insightful
Actors need to go back to living anonymous lives. I grew up in theater and the film industry and learned very early that actors can be jerks. I learned to never approach an actor in the wild because my feelings might be hurt when they objected to me intruding into their lives. In the 80s and 90s it became very important to us for closeted LGBTQ actors to come out of the closet and show the world they could be taken seriously. Now, with social media I suddenly know too much about actors' lives. I cannot enjoy their work without thinking of the stupid hateful views they hold and have chosen to share with the world. They all talk about "cancel culture" but they are cancelling themselves.
When you're talking about death of an artist and separating their art from the person who created it, I can see doing that when the artist is *actually dead* - then you can read or watch what they did and try to look at it, & maybe even analyze how their life impacted their work... But when you're looking at someone who's still alive and trying to apply the death of an artist thing... There's a lot of problems with that. If they're doing something that you feel is morally wrong, and you're indulging in their work, reinforcing their belief they are right- because you among those giving them income. Also, you can't analyze what they did throughout their life because their life isn't over so you don't know what they will do next. They could do something much worse than what they're doing now.
This video was interesting to watch. I thought about not commenting at all because I didn’t want to come off as insensitive or anti-trans but ultimately I wanted to put in my two cents about this situation.
To begin I wanted to say that going into this video I was absolutely of the mindset “separate the art from the artist” because i didn’t think it was fair to damn a show just because some of it’s cast members made transphobia comments. However, as I thought about it Ellie said something I found really interesting. She said, “I think it’s so much easier to separate the art from the artist if you are not the one being targeted.” That comment really made me stop and think because it’s so true. For example, there is a book/movie called me before you (about this rich guy that became quadriplegic who falls in love with this girl only to commit suicide at the end because his life as a disabled man wasn’t worth it) that got great reviews however those outside the disabled community kind of glossed over the negative effects this type of book/film might have on how people perceive disability in the real world (I know this is not a great example of what is discussed in this video but I just wanted to make the point that a lot of people are not aware how hard it is to separate the art from the artist/real life because it doesn’t effect them personally)
That being said, I wish there was a way for there to be true “separating the art from the artist” because a good show (and more importantly a person’s enjoyment/safety) shouldn’t suffer just because of someone’s own personal beliefs. I hope that made sense as I think it’s really encouraging that there are people who talk about things that aren’t right/infringe on others rights.
You made the right decision!!! Thank you for informing us. I’m in the US and I didn’t know. And what a wonderful conversation this was!!!
Agreed!
Thank you @mickeyjotheatre and @ellietalkstheatre As Mickey said, powerful discussion. I had no idea (not active on Twitter) and will no longer be attending this show. It’s also made me reflect on how I need to be more mindful/aware of such things moving forward, in fear of inadvertently supporting transphobic (or other problematic) views by supporting future productions.
Her makeup is so cute
It was quite interesting watching this video today. Here in the United States, a pathetic group has declared today a" "day of hate". What a dreadful existence They must have that they have to openly say they exist to hate. I do not understand why others existing and being happy is such anathema to them. I admit I occasionally trip uncertain pronouns of late, but do apologize. When People in a society are happy, society grows. Energy is not wasted. I am surprised by these performers going out of their way in their anti-transgender rants. You both also made a very good argument as to why independent reviewers are important, as they are not beholden to word counts or advertisers. They can say how they feel. I wish everyone happiness, and I hope that the theater can be a place where audiences not only can enjoy and have a good time, but learn and expand. Have a happy healthy and creative weekend.
This video is heartbreaking and educational, thanks !
Its brilliant people are talking about this, thanks Mickey and Ellie for the video 👍🏳⚧
Thank you ❤
Bravo and Brava!
This really upsets me. I went to see this as someone who didn't actually know anything about Frances Barber, and this deeply saddens me that she's so blatantly transphobic. I was bought the tickets (I was 15-16 at the time so couldn't have afforded it) but I did truly enjoy it, it's a shame looking retrospectively that her appearance is harmful to my memories of the performance.
I don't know either of the actors & I'm not on Twitter either, so I was ignorant about them.
I live near Chichester and refused to see this there for the exact same reason.
Seriously glad you're taking this stand. I know people invoke nazism far too often these says (and usually with just cause as there are a staggering number of people out here reveling in their chance to be racist asshats), but when I hear TERFs say their goal is to protect women, it reminds me of the slogans to protect 'pure' Germans. I can't separate the art from the artist when that artist is literally in front of me slathering their hate around like a volatile lawn sprinkler.
Slightly unrelated, but seeing lesbians out here now throwing trans people under the bus also smacks of the early feminists in America that were fighting for women's rights to vote while simultaneously disregarding their black brethren because it 'wasn't their fight.' Like, no... everyone deserves rights and protections, stop pulling the ladder up behind you. Maybe this is why they want to stop teaching history in America, we'd all realize hate is just a continuous cycle of people outside the hegemony that are scapegoated to be the next boogeyman.
I mean there’s been transphobes recently who have literally quoted mein kampf, so I think that’s completely justified to say that!
I’m actually glad you’ve pointed this out. I’m not a trans woman but as a woman there’s something about trans women being trodden on by other women that feels a bit more personal. Black women, white women, trans woman. We’re all women. And the part where people think they can pick and choose which women they want to support does feel, yeah, very Nazi. And it’s sad to watch women subject others to the kind of abuse they have fought against for decades.
Well now I don’t feel bad for wanting Mary Watson gone so John & Sherlock could be together!😳good gods of theater that woman sounds vile!
immediately made me think about how quickly (and rightfully, of course) that actress from the mandalorian got pulled for her outrageous tweets comparing being a republican in the US to being jewish during the holocaust. in the end, it's not about separating the art from the artist, it's that people don't take transphobia seriously.
Thank you for sharing this important message. Will not see this play. Full support..
Not all industries or services take care of that. My cousin works in a hospital and she was once told transphobic comments by a nurse, because she called the patient The Lady.
Thanks!
Challenging video.
I didn't know about this, but wasn't planning on seeing it anyway. You've definitely made me think about how I consume art, and theatre in particular 🤔
As someone living in the US, I wasn't aware of the controversy surrounding the production until watching this - and would have no opportunity to see it anyway. But as a fan of Moffat's writing, I DID read the script and several reviews - and you didn't miss a thing by boycotting it. Most of the reviews I saw gave it 2 stars out of five and I think that's generous. It's a REALLY bad sit-comy mess and I didn't chuckle once reading it.
THANK YOU for maintaining your integrity and standing for your values in an industry so quick to abandon any such thing in the constant bid of commercialism.
Thank you for talking about this it's so important. My heart breaks for anyone effected by transphobic comments. X
I have a question. Ellie said she would never feel like seeing the play and I don't understand why, if it had a new cast? I can totally understand not supporting it while this person is in the production but what if the cast changes and everyone is not problematic? I'm cis so I have no direct comparison but the closest i can think of was when there was a literal s*x offender portraying The Phantom on Broadway awhile back. That didn't stop me supporting the London show. I need more clarification please.
I think in this instance we didn't address that because this is a limited engagement of the play that will only be performed by this cast. Additionally, there's some respect lost for the producers and creatives involved for platforming these actors carelessly and with disregard for the trans community.
16:06 I still think the only time we can start separating the art from the artist is when the artist is dead.
A few things.
Nice video from the pair of you.
Most industries will ignore social media hate unless you are a public figure etc. Theatre normally does a good job of this kind of thing now, checking social media etc. So with that said, of course the team knew about her, they just didn't care. That's the heartbreaking part.
Trans folks are gay people were in the 80s and 90s (I say that as someone who lived through it as a gay teen). The hate, the violence, the fear, its exactly the same. I just pray the journey to acceptance isn't as long as it was for us.
I didnt know the person who made the comments. I looked her up and it was the creepy woman with the eye patch. I feel terrible that the Trans community has to endure a lot of the same evil rhetoric that we gay people did decades ago.
I didn’t have Amanda Abbington being a TERF on my bingo card and I especially didn’t think I would find out like this! Thank you and Ellie so much for bringing awareness to this!
Me neither - I have been following her on Twitter and have not seen anything problematic. Maybe she's changed her ways more recently; or maybe the algorithm just doesn't bother showing me anything anti-trans.
But today (13 Feb 2023) is a hard day to be watching this video as we're getting more information about a transgirl being murdered. The atmosphere in the UK is getting worse.
Support you views Ellie I hope MickeyJo you will be taking down your Bath Into woods review as support
Thank you for this.
Thanks for a thoughtful and insighful discussion. Not the most fun episode, but an important one.
Hopefully more fun to be had soon! Thank you for watching!
Very much agree - Thanks for speaking out.
As a nonbinary trans person--everything about the souring of our childhoods that Ellie explains--the hurt that comes from having to continually be faced with these people's comments and needlessly vindictive beliefs when they are right in front of you is heart-wrenching. I also agree with you, Mickey, that our knowledge and interaction with a person significantly influences the experience we have with their work in any direction.
I, too, avoid engaging in the Twitverse as I find it all far too negative especially now. I support your decision to avoid this production and were I in the UK I certainly would as well. Thank you. Only by supporting all of our LGBTQI+ community will be protect and nurture our most vulnerable. No human should be exposed to this abuse. BTW Ellie, you look absolutely stunning...I love love love your eyeshadow palette 💚💙💜💛
It is like anybody when someone claims to represent you when they have never asked you or when you have never asked them what they mean by comments. A lot gets lost in translation with social media. It is like the blocking of the Scottish bill. If the civil servants had aligned the age consent between the countries in the UK to 18 then the bill could have gone through and not touched on safe guarding issues problems for children by bringing the age down to 16. As a society trans people, transition regreters, hetrosexuals, gay community, legislators, scientists we need to just listen and have more discussions like this amongst all of us. We are all part of this society and community and I totally agree with Ellie . Everybody should be ok to go and enjoy theatre and life in general. I'm disabled I can't go to the theatre at all as my type of disability cannot currently be catered for. So I identify what is needed and keep raising the issue and talking to people and highlight what I and other people like me need to enjoy productions. Has anybody informed the theatre production of how their employee choice has made people feel unsafe. Since being in the production has she actually demonstrated such behaviour? I am just curious. At an employment tribunal these are questions that would be asked in other jobs before being sacked. This was a great discussion. I have a number of gay, lesbian and trans friends and know how hard life can be.
I feel uncomfortable with the reason for this video. As you decided not to go and of course that is fine.
I believe that your labeling of Barber as transphobic, is one that I believe that she would deny. And I think it is wrong to choose to deny her the right to talk about her views about gender as a woman. Especially as you are a man.
I disagree with Barber fundamentally, but to then go a step further and say she cannot express her views and essentially say that her career is over, makes me worry so much. It is totally right to debate and challenge her view, in the frame of freedom of speech. And it is right to say that and choose to stay away. One of the reasons is that this same of kind of silencing will and does get use against us LGBT people.
I stand with the trans community and have no interest in seeing this play. I think so many ciswomen stand with transwomen because we know how this feels: As a ciswoman it feels like I've spent my whole life separating art from the artist. I'm a HUGE fan of Queen but I've heard plenty of stories about how many young girl groupies were treated. I adore Picasso's work yet he has said some HORRIFIC things about women and probably done much worse. So many movies that I have loved and have meant so much to me over the years have been produced by abusive men and acting performances that have moved me to tears have been played by men who have abused their wives. I think the difference here though is that I've found at all that disappointing stuff AFTER I've enjoyed the art or entertainment on its own. I've sadly come to the conclusion that if I try to vet every piece of media that genuinely moves me then I am never going to be able to enjoy anything ever again. I think we should respect that everyone has their boundaries when it comes to separating art from the artist. Some people can't stand to hear another Michael Jackson song in their lives but others will still dance along to it if it comes on in a club and others will still enjoy the music because that's what they love on its own. It's really great to hear you approaching sensitive subjects like this Mickey and thanks for introducing me to Ellie Talks Theatre, I'm going to subscribe to her right now :)
Thank you for supporting all members of the LGBTQ+ community. My daughter is trans and I witness firsthand the way she is treated by the local community to the point that I worry every time she leaves her home that someone will hurt her just for being her. I would have thought that in 2023 we would have become a more tolerant society, but sadly, due to certain well-known celebrities, the opposite appears to be happening. We call ourselves progressive, but the opposite is true …
Separating the art from the artist starts to look a lot like an excuse to still do or have that thing you want without feeling guilty about who it supports. I'm a big Doctor Who fan and I had heard of the production and thought wistfully it would be great to see--had no idea about this cast member. Thank you for this video.
This is exactly how I feel!
Great video. Really loved getting the hear what Ellie had to say. She was so straight forward and down to earth with her explanations. Made it so clear. Thanks you for bringing up this issue that’s being so widely ignored. Especially in spaces like theatre which are known to have such a huge following for LGBT+ people. Totally neglectful on Gatiss and Moffat’s part and anyone else involved in casting.
As a Sherlock fan who hasn't paid any particular attention to the actors outside of the show, I'm very sorry to hear this news and I thank you for calling attention to it. If I could ask, did you consider going to review the show specifically to call out these missteps by the creative team? Not questioning your decision, but since I assume press tickets are free, I could see an option to make these critiques public in a different way without supporting the show in the financial sense, especially since you mentioned that other reviews didn't really raise these issues. If you feel comfortable (or if someone else wants to educate me) I'm wondering if there are other downsides to doing that I may not see.
The trouble with this is that attending the show would be seen as supporting it in some way, and would put Mickey Jo In the impossible position of wanting to give an honest review whilst also condemning the whole thing! It's the same issue as Twitch streaming Hogwarts Legacy whilst raising money for Trans charities - the intention may be good but it's not possible to do without supporting the very thing you are seeking to criticise.