Both Mira Furlan (Delenn) and Andreas Katsulas (G’Kar) have left us, but they are now “Star Stuff” ! Thank you for entertaining us in amazing story … we miss you both 😢
But we always can rewatch their greatest accomplishments;) They will be missed forever though I think also. We named our cat Mira. She is a fierce and fearless one .
I remember watching this when it aired on tv. I was not blown away by the make up on G'kar then, but now with that close up and the full detail yea the make up artists did a great job on him.
G'Kar more than anyone took it on the chin during the Shadow Wars, especially in the early onslaught. When they finally felt like that they could trust him, they then began tell him the WHAT's and the WHY's of the decicionmaking of the war, such as the fall of Narn. G'Kar showed disdain for being left out, and anger for what happened to his homeworld and the fact that everyone let it happen. But, he was also pragmatic enough to understand the "bigger picture", and he bit his tongue and went along with everyone. Show he had matured from what he was in Season 1. In the end, he got his homeworld back, he became a leading prophet, and one of the most respected leaders in the galaxy. This shows patience, understanding, compromise, AND knowing when to bide your time for the right moment to "cashing in" your price for your loyalty.
@@JK-VisionsG'Kar's story is tragic but no where near the tragedy of Londo. G'Kar ended up a respected leader to a damaged people, Londo ended up a puppet leader to an oppressed people. Funny how it ended up at the end of the series.
@@wesleylee4962 the scene with dr.franklin saving a boys life but thu religous beliefs the parents killed the boy the shock was staggering to dr.franklin
@@JK-Visions it was also the scene when the vorlons told in particular told g-kar through his father that the phrase some will have to be sacrificed if all are to be saved
Yes we will. Yes we will. The day will come again. There was a time when I said nothing could ever be as good as Star Trek, and we got Babylon 5, which was even better. Someday, something even better will come along.
If JMS was easier to work with, maybe we would. With all these streaming channels, everybody want an intellectual property. And think of how good it would look. I'm guessing Strange New Worlds doesn't have a huge budget, but it's a great set.
Recall that in an earlier confrontation with the Shadows, G'Kwan and the "Mind-Walkers" (Narn telepaths), fought against the Shadows. That's why there were no Narn telepaths, and that's why the Shadows exploited Centauri antipathy towards the Narn, bombarding their Homeworld with mass impactors.
It is a 'mirror' of real warfare, sometime's distastefull decision's have to be made to enable a 'bigger' picture. As in the the British' attacking the Vichy french fleet in Algier's etc or the 'Man who never was' having a corpse bearing 'secret' invasion plan's wash ashore in Spain so the German's would recieve the plans from Spanish agents. Yet the acting in this episode is tops, with G'kar saddingly knowing the 'sacrifice' of Narn would help the 'greater' struggle. Then Delenn showing the remorse of the decision not to say anything about the Shadow's for the 'greater' struggle. It is a pity these actors have travelled byond the 'Rim'.
All these years later and I am just noticing the sculpture behind them in this scene... IT'S A VORLON!!!!! It looks just like Kosh when he left his encounter suit! Amazing story telling in my opinion since the Narn think of the VORLON as angels in their religion. Great work MJS!
I remember seeing the scene when it first aired. It's funny because I see it very differently now. I see DeLen as frankly the villain. She didn't know what the Shadows were going to do for sure. She did not know that they would destroy narn. But she knew that the minbari had been complacent for a thousand years. And she elected to sacrifice the narn, not her own people. The bad guys always sacrifice someone else. The good guys lay down their own lives rather than ask someone else to sacrifice.
When Londo bombed the Shadow fleet on that island on Centauri prime. He said some Centaurans had remained 'behind' so as not to let the Shadows have any suspicions of anything wrong. Did Londo tell the 'truth' of that or did he sacrifice thousand's or more, just to remove the Shadows from Centauri prime and stop the Vorlon planet killer. Had Delen and Sheridan confirmed G'kars suspicions about the Shadow's return, how badly could the Shadow war have gone against the League of non aligned worlds and the Vorlon's 'agenda' . Unfortunatly in war stroke and counter stroke can affect the innocent as in WW 2.
@@neil999ish London also said they knew what was being asked of them. But that is a relative handful. The OP fails to understand that to ask for volunteers in that context, would defeat the point of the secret. Secret is then out. Same as with Coventry.
@@mikespangler98 The issue with Coventry was it COULD HAVE POSSIBLY tipped off the Germans , thats A LOT different than IT WOULD HAVE as in the scenario with Delenn . Churchill gave up people on a RISK IT MIGHT , not a certainty like they try to play it off , as in this clip . IMO Churchill simply chose not to act to save Civilians at the POSSIBLE risk . That is nowhere near what Delenn did here . But let me ask this ..... what is the point of being able to read enemy code in real time if the information is not used to actually save lives instead of just trying to get a battlefield advantage ?
@@I_am_Diogenes "what is the point of being able to read enemy code in real time if the information is not used to actually save lives" Save lives today vs lose war and even more lives later. Churchill did not enjoy enjoy making that decision, but he did.
@@JK-Visions 24 fps - what it was recorded at. Motion blur between frames happens due to the shutter speed of the camera - it opens and closes 24 times a second and records the movement whilst it's open. If it's sped up to 60 fps (nearly 3x faster), the blur you get is too much - things look and move unnaturally to the eye. If the source is 60fps it's fine but otherwise it looks weird. And for B5 it is especially annoying in the CGI bits because it makes them look and feel even more like a computer game than they already do.
Ok thanks. The upscale program did it automatically but I will manually set it back to 24 as from the next episode. Thanks for your information. I just researched it and you are correct.
Obviously, Delenn believes what she is saying here but, given what we learn about the Shadows later, that they see themselves as encouraging progress by stirring up wars and conflicts, what would have been their purpose in exterminating the Narn? I think Delenn is wrong.
The Shadows believed in evolving the strong through conflict, they did not care if this meant death for one person or an entire species. I think this early (and we as an audience) they only understand the Shadows as a big bad horrible enemy, no doubt perpetrated by the Vorlons too. She is not "wrong", but the Shadows probably wouldn't have killed all the Narns, didn't make sense in their scheme of things.
In the end, everyone manipulated by any of the elder races is wrong. The only right action was the one that was ultimately chosen. Telling the elder races to bugger off.
Both Mira Furlan (Delenn) and Andreas Katsulas (G’Kar) have left us, but they are now “Star Stuff” ! Thank you for entertaining us in amazing story … we miss you both 😢
One of the saddest and most powerful scenes in the whole series. Perhaps in Sci Fi history. And both are gone now........and we are poorer now.
But we always can rewatch their greatest accomplishments;) They will be missed forever though I think also. We named our cat Mira. She is a fierce and fearless one .
@@JK-Visions very nice.
@@JK-Visions I'm sure Mira would have loved that. :')
Downvoted for talking about genocide, while carrying the flag of genocide.
I stand with the Jewish people and Israel.
I remember watching this when it aired on tv. I was not blown away by the make up on G'kar then, but now with that close up and the full detail yea the make up artists did a great job on him.
Of all the characters on Babylon 5 G’Kar is the most human.
True but I have to put Vir on the first spot aswell. Even more than the rest of them all.
Although they all were fighting for the good causes.
@@JK-Visions Very true
He's really not dead, as long as we remember him...
I don't know, I would put Londo in that same category.
G'Kar more than anyone took it on the chin during the Shadow Wars, especially in the early onslaught. When they finally felt like that they could trust him, they then began tell him the WHAT's and the WHY's of the decicionmaking of the war, such as the fall of Narn.
G'Kar showed disdain for being left out, and anger for what happened to his homeworld and the fact that everyone let it happen.
But, he was also pragmatic enough to understand the "bigger picture", and he bit his tongue and went along with everyone. Show he had matured from what he was in Season 1.
In the end, he got his homeworld back, he became a leading prophet, and one of the most respected leaders in the galaxy.
This shows patience, understanding, compromise, AND knowing when to bide your time for the right moment to "cashing in" your price for your loyalty.
Yeah I think g'kar is the most tragic story of them all, but also of hope as long as some survive at least.
@@JK-VisionsG'Kar's story is tragic but no where near the tragedy of Londo. G'Kar ended up a respected leader to a damaged people, Londo ended up a puppet leader to an oppressed people.
Funny how it ended up at the end of the series.
Babylon Five had many "Deep Scenes" like this, and on a "regular" basis.
I regret the current "Space Opera" style.
@@wesleylee4962 the scene with dr.franklin saving a boys life but thu religous beliefs the parents killed the boy the shock was staggering to dr.franklin
@@JK-Visions it was also the scene when the vorlons told in particular told g-kar through his father that the phrase some will have to be sacrificed if all are to be saved
Such powerful words.
I cry for the lost of both of them.
G'Kar was concerned with saving his world, but now he will be concerned with saving a the galaxy.
Yeah. And to think in the first episode when they attacked the agricultural colony of ragesch 3 I thought he was a....well heartless person ..
one of the greatest shows ever...
In my humble opinion still the best;)
without a doubt
so emotional in a way i normally laff off well not this time thanx to mikey J this hurt big time you just hurt me so much
We'll never have sci-fi shows this good again.
Probably once every generation. Like the Lord of the rings trilogy.
Yes we will. Yes we will. The day will come again. There was a time when I said nothing could ever be as good as Star Trek, and we got Babylon 5, which was even better. Someday, something even better will come along.
If JMS was easier to work with, maybe we would. With all these streaming channels, everybody want an intellectual property.
And think of how good it would look. I'm guessing Strange New Worlds doesn't have a huge budget, but it's a great set.
True.
The reason is simple: capitalism.
@@antediluvianatheist5262 Oh? B5 was not created to make money? It was a government project of a Socialist system?
Recall that in an earlier confrontation with the Shadows, G'Kwan and the "Mind-Walkers" (Narn telepaths), fought against the Shadows. That's why there were no Narn telepaths, and that's why the Shadows exploited Centauri antipathy towards the Narn, bombarding their Homeworld with mass impactors.
Yes, in the last Great War.
It is a 'mirror' of real warfare, sometime's distastefull decision's have to be made to enable a 'bigger' picture.
As in the the British' attacking the Vichy french fleet in Algier's etc or the 'Man who never was' having a corpse bearing 'secret' invasion plan's wash ashore in Spain so the German's would recieve the plans from Spanish agents.
Yet the acting in this episode is tops, with G'kar saddingly knowing the 'sacrifice' of Narn would help the 'greater' struggle. Then Delenn showing the remorse of the decision not to say anything about the Shadow's for the 'greater' struggle.
It is a pity these actors have travelled byond the 'Rim'.
My favorite Sci fi series of all time.
All these years later and I am just noticing the sculpture behind them in this scene...
IT'S A VORLON!!!!! It looks just like Kosh when he left his encounter suit!
Amazing story telling in my opinion since the Narn think of the VORLON as angels in their religion.
Great work MJS!
That's quite a surprise;)
well spotted!
I hope the both of them are in heaven.
I remember seeing the scene when it first aired. It's funny because I see it very differently now. I see DeLen as frankly the villain. She didn't know what the Shadows were going to do for sure.
She did not know that they would destroy narn.
But she knew that the minbari had been complacent for a thousand years. And she elected to sacrifice the narn, not her own people.
The bad guys always sacrifice someone else. The good guys lay down their own lives rather than ask someone else to sacrifice.
Tough call for Delenn.
Go ahead, JMS, try and remake this masterpiece.
Shows what happens when great actors get a script!
If some MUST sacrificed for all to be saved then wouldnt it be proper to ask for volunteers ?
When Londo bombed the Shadow fleet on that island on Centauri prime. He said some Centaurans had remained 'behind' so as not to let the Shadows have any suspicions of anything wrong.
Did Londo tell the 'truth' of that or did he sacrifice thousand's or more, just to remove the Shadows from Centauri prime and stop the Vorlon planet killer.
Had Delen and Sheridan confirmed G'kars suspicions about the Shadow's return, how badly could the Shadow war have gone against the League of non aligned worlds and the Vorlon's 'agenda' .
Unfortunatly in war stroke and counter stroke can affect the innocent as in WW 2.
See also, Coventry in WW2. Save Coventry at the cost of giving up Ultra?
@@neil999ish
London also said they knew what was being asked of them. But that is a relative handful. The OP fails to understand that to ask for volunteers in that context, would defeat the point of the secret. Secret is then out. Same as with Coventry.
@@mikespangler98 The issue with Coventry was it COULD HAVE POSSIBLY tipped off the Germans , thats A LOT different than IT WOULD HAVE as in the scenario with Delenn . Churchill gave up people on a RISK IT MIGHT , not a certainty like they try to play it off , as in this clip . IMO Churchill simply chose not to act to save Civilians at the POSSIBLE risk . That is nowhere near what Delenn did here .
But let me ask this ..... what is the point of being able to read enemy code in real time if the information is not used to actually save lives instead of just trying to get a battlefield advantage ?
@@I_am_Diogenes "what is the point of being able to read enemy code in real time if the information is not used to actually save lives"
Save lives today vs lose war and even more lives later. Churchill did not enjoy enjoy making that decision, but he did.
It still gets ya right in the feels after all this time.
Got to feel sorry for the poor extra who had 3 hours of makeup and wardrobe and walked through the back of shot for 2s and was out of focus.
And they probably paid a lot of money to be on the show too.
Owch!
Please stop converting this to 60 fps - it fucks up the motion blur in the live action bits. It's not MEANT to be in 60 fps.
Thanks for your input. What would be a normal fps?
@@JK-Visions 24 fps - what it was recorded at. Motion blur between frames happens due to the shutter speed of the camera - it opens and closes 24 times a second and records the movement whilst it's open. If it's sped up to 60 fps (nearly 3x faster), the blur you get is too much - things look and move unnaturally to the eye. If the source is 60fps it's fine but otherwise it looks weird. And for B5 it is especially annoying in the CGI bits because it makes them look and feel even more like a computer game than they already do.
Ok thanks. The upscale program did it automatically but I will manually set it back to 24 as from the next episode. Thanks for your information. I just researched it and you are correct.
I do hope this comment is legit, wholesome.
@@JK-Visions
Both gone now
But Fortunately we will always have their great accomplishments. And with that we will always remember them until it's our time to go beyond the rim.
Obviously, Delenn believes what she is saying here but, given what we learn about the Shadows later, that they see themselves as encouraging progress by stirring up wars and conflicts, what would have been their purpose in exterminating the Narn? I think Delenn is wrong.
The Shadows believed in evolving the strong through conflict, they did not care if this meant death for one person or an entire species.
I think this early (and we as an audience) they only understand the Shadows as a big bad horrible enemy, no doubt perpetrated by the Vorlons too.
She is not "wrong", but the Shadows probably wouldn't have killed all the Narns, didn't make sense in their scheme of things.
In the end, everyone manipulated by any of the elder races is wrong. The only right action was the one that was ultimately chosen. Telling the elder races to bugger off.