100% see it as a plus when the guy insists on paying for the first date (but I'll offer just to be polite). I think it gets really complicated though once you get to 2nd, 3rd, etc. date (before you're official and still just getting to know each other) -- who is paying then? Like do you take turns paying? Split every time? Should the guy pay for every date until you're a couple? it's complicated😆
Belgian here, been with my girlfriend for a few years and we split since the first date. No games, no "debt" to the other person, just straight up good communication. In my opinion that's the best system. But I get where you're coming from.
Two completely random quotes I think you'll like: 1.) “I think everything in life is art. What you do. How you dress. The way you love someone, and how you talk. Your smile and your personality. What you believe in, and all your dreams. The way you drink your tea. How you decorate your home. Or party. Your grocery list. The food you make. How your writing looks. And the way you feel. Life is art." ― Helena Bonham Carter 2.) "Wisdom is the recovery of innocence at the far end of experience." --My boy David Bentley Hart (but seriously, my absolute fave theologian).
If i invite her for dinner/date then I already have in mind that I will pay for her meal BUT if she invites me then I would assume she's inviting me out for dinner therefore paying for my meal. I think communication is absolute key and if she feels uncomfortable about this then obviously I will pay for my own meal. Idk who you're going on dates with but testing the guys open mindedness and emotional maturity could be a really good indicator as to whether he's a keeper. I try my best to practice this by watching videos like yours. Thanks for the upload!
Yet more incentive for women not to initiate. It costs women exponential amounts more exponentially to even get ready for a date due to ridiculous beauty standards. It’s really ok to pick up the check anyway.
@@TheIntuitiveActress I’ve met some women who find me paying for their meal to be completely disrespectful. Idk why and I asked and we’ve had deep discussions about it. Granted it extended the date longer but at the cost of not seeing them again bc I was “rude.” I’ll always ask from now on though some even find me asking consider me being a “red flag” - dating is difficult
The first date sure, nowhere crazy expensive. Afterwards its something the couple should discuss. I don't think we need to hold on to old 1950s " chivalry" from rigid sexist structures of women being helpless anyway, or as men being these rich cavemen " providers." Don't assume anything, be open and talk about it
exactly, what does it symbolize? what if that communication is explicitly done... sometimes you, just, don't mind going out. If Im not dying to do it, ill have a sly way of probing it (which keep in mind some women do appreciate the fairness in value. but if probing says nay first time around I drop it and commit), but I would never mind if it came down to it pfffft.... I just hate the idea of a partner assuming bcs of my ever manners they can assume they mean as much to me as my most highly idealized partners (just imagining that vain attitude already hurts, and speaks much more on the mans character to enable such discordance imo,,,) thats whom exquisite manners are reserved for... im not scared to be that honest... it hurts to assume that I wouldnt have reserved feelings/interests to feel...
I am a proud feminist. In the name of gender equality, I think the man should pay for the first date, and then the man and woman should take turns (Splitting is unromantic). Unless the woman is poor, or a student, I don't think the guy should pay for everything. The one who invites should pay.
I’m okay with paying if coffee dates are cool. Cause it still allows me to pay for her and get to know her, which are the underlying points and I’m also not blowing though money just to find out that we’re not even looking for the same type of relationship.
I never pay if the other does not try to offer to in the first place. And then it would be expected that we reciprocate on dates after dates. If we look at the broader context it otherwise keeps us men in the "men should provide" frame. I dont want that. I want an equal partner. By experience, too often women use men as free meals and I ve made it a general rules not to go on food dates in the first couple ones. I'd rather go for beers in the park or music shows, and random places or whatnot and see what the person is made of than look at them or have them look at me shoving food in my face and if the vibe is right Id offer that we have a cook off at either of our places on one the following dates. There would also be the argument that if its expected that the man pays for everything is that his time and presence is less valuable and that he should be paying for being granted the opportunity to even talk to the person in front of him. If thats the power dynamic you are looking for in a couple there are plenty of simps of the ocean that will gladly cater to that need. I am not one of those. I will not go on a following date with anyone who remotely gives me that vibe - and yes at that moment they put themselves in the discardable pile not worthy of my time any longer.
I had a first date with a woman for drinks. She suggested we stay for dinner. Of course, I paid. Turned out that she and her girlfriends had a running competition to see how guys they could get to buy dinner on the first date- lol. Needless to say, that relationship didn't last very long.
Wow, that’s so awful of her and her friends, I’m sorry. Yeah, I think when anyone feels taken advantage of or degraded, the relationship is probably not going to work.
Objectively, if a man is not in a financial position to pay for two meals instead of one every few days, they've got more pressing concerns that should come before finding a partner. Keeping a budget seems like our most vital and pressing survival related task as citizens. If a couple is going out every single night I could see how then it'd be something to factor into the budget more significantly; it's just as important then to become more creative just as one would do with managing the accounting of a business start-up. Picnics and home made grocery bought meals are also options. I would think a male person would take great pride in their ability to protect and provide for what appears to be any semblance of a start to the social group meant to produce its progeny. If a man is so miserly and petty as to take up an issue about playing their traditional gender role with something as small as a night out costing $120 or less, I'd imagine the pettiness and insufficiency extrapolates to other areas and would be better off avoided. It's an investment in the relationship. Some investments go bust, others produce great returns. If you don't believe a person is authentically a good prospect as a life partner at most or at least worth the night out as a financial expense, don't agree to the date. Simple.
Yep. And now I’m married to the most generous man. I give to him 3 fold in cooked dinners. Taking care of him, and taking him out. Men have a lot of advantages in this world. What most don’t understand is that if they invest in A good woman upfront the dividends will be exponential. . .
@@Handlebrake2 Which is why it’s worth it to take your time to get to know someone up front. It doesn’t guarantee anything but it sure helps your odds! If they don’t want to take you to dinner then it doesn’t look great. I could get onto statistics about how much more dating tends to cost women versus men even if they pay, but that’s not the point here.
I don't understand why you're degrading other human beings to thier sexes when while you're on date you're not with ordinary human but with sepcial person with name , intrests etc. Because of that you have much more variables which you should include in your judgment on who should pay yet you did not mention that at all. You based your jugment on his sex and culture and degrading a person to these two simple categories is not nice. Another objection which i have it's the way of showing someone intrest. Why material goods should be viewed as proof of that when emotional and time envolnment are imho far better markers of if someone is really intrested in you? Maybe you agree if that but by not including that it sounds quite shallow
For someone who has expressed profound feminist views in the past, I'm taken a back by this. You don't need the approval of others to have an opinion, I'm just curious why a man paying for your date signifies anything other than just paying for your meal. How do you know this guy isn't out there entertaining 3 other women? What if he is just paying for the date cause he thinks he's gonna get sex out of you by doing so? Furthermore, seeing men as solely a wallet in this scenario speaks to a larger problem here. How we expect men to more vulnerable if we treat them like they don't have feelings at all?
@@TheNinjapancake14 Yeah but you’re not a guy. Even if you were, you’re speaking for you. You’d be surprised what ppl do just to get in your pants. It’s insane
Of course you feel "safe" if a guy pays, you didn't lose any of your money lol. She said let us have this one thing, well you girls are fighting to be equal why should we?
Her point is that guys could be participating in the cultures of disposability and over-sexualization. What that means is that the guy isn't actually interested in the women, but is viewing in-person dating the same as hookup--ahem, dating--apps: He is shooting his shot with many women with low costs to himself and high returns (protean sex)--but the woman is used for her sexuality. Whereas if a guy shows serious interest, he will not hesitate to invest into them (pay for dinner), thereby showing his care. Thus, the woman feels "safe," as the guy is genuinely interested in her, not viewing her as a hottie to wine and dine, but as a potential girlfriend. *But yes, men absolutely can buy women things and feel entitled too.
@@matthewk2388 Well, you know what they about assuming. I could easily reverse what you just said and say that a guy paying for the entire date could be his way of trying to buy the woman for sex essentially. How bout we just have open dialogue and honest conversations when we date that way there is little to no confusion.
I (male) have no problem with paying on the first date. But I would not say that should be the LAST vestige of the patriarchy to fall. So, what vestiges of patriarchy should last a bit longer? How about, "Women and children first?" I can't see any REAL man shoving ladies aside to secure a place in one of the Titanic's lifeboats. That reminds me. I'll have to re-read Real Men Don't Eat Quiche.
That was a bit of a joke in the beginning 😂 What I’m really saying is benevolent sexism probably shouldn’t be the first form of sexism we look to get rid of-that includes other things than just paying for the date :)
Benevolent Sexism. A new term. I like it! I think I qualify, too. The ladies, especially, point out to me that I am FULL of B.S., but they are always reluctant to reveal what B.S. stands for. At long last I now know: Benevolent Sexism! Thank you yesreneau! :)
I agree with Reneu here. In the very first dates, The guy should always pay unless the girl specifically asked the guy out first. Even then if both of them insists, The guy paying just seems appropriate imo
lmfao i was going to ask why also. just out of curiosity,, clarity is just a matter of thought and will point either way. I just wonder how traditional if at all this appropriateness might be...
@yesreneau do you offer to pay the tip when on the first date? I’m curious because I went on a date with a friend from the past after he was bugging me soooooo often to go on a date with him. I finally said yes. I dressed so cute and did my make up, and he came in water resistant shorts and a tank top. Lmao. Then had the audacity to ask if I wanted to split the bill. I said “No! Wait is this a date or just friends grabbing food?” He said it was a date. Girlllll I was sooooo turned off, and caught off guard, so I offered to pay the tip. But high key, I feel like I should not have paid ANYTHING! Also, I wanted ice cream after the dinner and paid for my own dessert. He turned me sooo off because I know if I asked him on a date, I would have paid for everything. I am a affectionate woman who loves to give. I grew up in a traditional two parent household and with siblings who are all loving. My love language is gift giving, so I want a partner who also is giving because if not, he is just someone who takes. Am I so wrong for wanting a man to be a gentleman and to pay? I have many gfs who say they go half on a date because they don’t want to feel like they owe a guy anything. I think that’s ridiculous because why even bother to give your time and effort to a man who you feel does not care for you? As I get older, I noticed I tend to have less tolerance for bs such as a guy being cheap but still having the audacity to try to get coochie. *thanks for listening to my rant* lol
You can thank the sisterhood for rewarding bad behavior constantly. In general I believe if a person places great importance on material/wealth over getting to know a person's morals and values, the relationship won't last.
I always pay for dates but I will say that it sucks going out and getting drinks at clubs and maybe dinner (can be close to $100 at a New York bar/restaurant) just to be ghosted on the other side. No one owes me a second date…but I remember about a month ago, I met this girl on hinge who was really cute and her plans fell through that day (Saturday) so I invited her to party at I got invited to and I got her dinner and drinks. Afterwards, she just ghosted me, and it really sucked. Cuz the convo was great, and we dancing and kissing 🤷♂️ My point is this: if you want men to continue to collectively pay and assume difference, then show the dignity to at least text back. Otherwise, it will become more dysfunctional and eventually dating is barley gonna exist… just straight hookups, no vulnerability and relationships will be dead
1:59
"It makes me feel safe."
Of course it doesn't have to do anything with getting free stuff. Of course not.
Men pays for Women's meal then ghosts him because all she wanted was a foodie call. Sadly this is how dating is now.
I split because I only date adults.
Women are strong and independent feminist until the boat sinks or the Dinner check arrives.
Whoever invites, or 50/50
I feel like we are there, you should always pay separately.
Always 💕your content
I like it how you’ve turned this into a dating channel
100% see it as a plus when the guy insists on paying for the first date (but I'll offer just to be polite). I think it gets really complicated though once you get to 2nd, 3rd, etc. date (before you're official and still just getting to know each other) -- who is paying then? Like do you take turns paying? Split every time? Should the guy pay for every date until you're a couple? it's complicated😆
Go somewhere like a park?
@@aquickword5508 it should always be split because women never ask men out and always expect men to do all the work
Belgian here, been with my girlfriend for a few years and we split since the first date. No games, no "debt" to the other person, just straight up good communication. In my opinion that's the best system. But I get where you're coming from.
I can buy my own food and if that is all a man has to offer or doesn’t then I don’t need him
Two completely random quotes I think you'll like:
1.) “I think everything in life is art. What you do. How you dress. The way you love someone, and how you talk. Your smile and your personality. What you believe in, and all your dreams. The way you drink your tea. How you decorate your home. Or party. Your grocery list. The food you make. How your writing looks. And the way you feel. Life is art."
― Helena Bonham Carter
2.) "Wisdom is the recovery of innocence at the far end of experience." --My boy David Bentley Hart (but seriously, my absolute fave theologian).
If i invite her for dinner/date then I already have in mind that I will pay for her meal BUT if she invites me then I would assume she's inviting me out for dinner therefore paying for my meal. I think communication is absolute key and if she feels uncomfortable about this then obviously I will pay for my own meal.
Idk who you're going on dates with but testing the guys open mindedness and emotional maturity could be a really good indicator as to whether he's a keeper. I try my best to practice this by watching videos like yours. Thanks for the upload!
Yet more incentive for women not to initiate. It costs women exponential amounts more exponentially to even get ready for a date due to ridiculous beauty standards. It’s really ok to pick up the check anyway.
@@TheIntuitiveActress I’ve met some women who find me paying for their meal to be completely disrespectful. Idk why and I asked and we’ve had deep discussions about it. Granted it extended the date longer but at the cost of not seeing them again bc I was “rude.” I’ll always ask from now on though some even find me asking consider me being a “red flag” - dating is difficult
@@EmphaticTrain I get that! Hugs. You sound like a great guy.
The Parents!
It really doesn't matter. But it would hurt if I pay for someone then figure out later that they weren't worth it. Other wise I really don't care.
The first date sure, nowhere crazy expensive. Afterwards its something the couple should discuss. I don't think we need to hold on to old 1950s " chivalry" from rigid sexist structures of women being helpless anyway, or as men being these rich cavemen " providers." Don't assume anything, be open and talk about it
I’d love to see you do a reaction video to Andrew Tate :)))
exactly, what does it symbolize? what if that communication is explicitly done... sometimes you, just, don't mind going out. If Im not dying to do it, ill have a sly way of probing it (which keep in mind some women do appreciate the fairness in value. but if probing says nay first time around I drop it and commit), but I would never mind if it came down to it pfffft.... I just hate the idea of a partner assuming bcs of my ever manners they can assume they mean as much to me as my most highly idealized partners (just imagining that vain attitude already hurts, and speaks much more on the mans character to enable such discordance imo,,,) thats whom exquisite manners are reserved for... im not scared to be that honest... it hurts to assume that I wouldnt have reserved feelings/interests to feel...
I am a proud feminist. In the name of gender equality, I think the man should pay for the first date, and then the man and woman should take turns (Splitting is unromantic). Unless the woman is poor, or a student, I don't think the guy should pay for everything. The one who invites should pay.
I’m okay with paying if coffee dates are cool. Cause it still allows me to pay for her and get to know her, which are the underlying points and I’m also not blowing though money just to find out that we’re not even looking for the same type of relationship.
I never pay if the other does not try to offer to in the first place. And then it would be expected that we reciprocate on dates after dates. If we look at the broader context it otherwise keeps us men in the "men should provide" frame. I dont want that. I want an equal partner. By experience, too often women use men as free meals and I ve made it a general rules not to go on food dates in the first couple ones. I'd rather go for beers in the park or music shows, and random places or whatnot and see what the person is made of than look at them or have them look at me shoving food in my face and if the vibe is right Id offer that we have a cook off at either of our places on one the following dates. There would also be the argument that if its expected that the man pays for everything is that his time and presence is less valuable and that he should be paying for being granted the opportunity to even talk to the person in front of him. If thats the power dynamic you are looking for in a couple there are plenty of simps of the ocean that will gladly cater to that need. I am not one of those. I will not go on a following date with anyone who remotely gives me that vibe - and yes at that moment they put themselves in the discardable pile not worthy of my time any longer.
Codependency and sphere of power and control maybe a dynamic to be aware of.
I had a first date with a woman for drinks. She suggested we stay for dinner. Of course, I paid. Turned out that she and her girlfriends had a running competition to see how guys they could get to buy dinner on the first date- lol. Needless to say, that relationship didn't last very long.
Wow, that’s so awful of her and her friends, I’m sorry. Yeah, I think when anyone feels taken advantage of or degraded, the relationship is probably not going to work.
@@yesreneau Thanks, Taylor. I actually thought it was kinda funny.
@@yesreneau you have no clue how women use men and treat men like shit women are worse than men.
I like how this is 98% feminism except for this ONE topic 😂😂
You are special (1:23) and irreplaceable (1:30) to me.
I care about you (1:26) and want you to feel safe (2:05).
Objectively, if a man is not in a financial position to pay for two meals instead of one every few days, they've got more pressing concerns that should come before finding a partner. Keeping a budget seems like our most vital and pressing survival related task as citizens. If a couple is going out every single night I could see how then it'd be something to factor into the budget more significantly; it's just as important then to become more creative just as one would do with managing the accounting of a business start-up.
Picnics and home made grocery bought meals are also options. I would think a male person would take great pride in their ability to protect and provide for what appears to be any semblance of a start to the social group meant to produce its progeny. If a man is so miserly and petty as to take up an issue about playing their traditional gender role with something as small as a night out costing $120 or less, I'd imagine the pettiness and insufficiency extrapolates to other areas and would be better off avoided.
It's an investment in the relationship. Some investments go bust, others produce great returns. If you don't believe a person is authentically a good prospect as a life partner at most or at least worth the night out as a financial expense, don't agree to the date. Simple.
Yep. And now I’m married to the most generous man. I give to him 3 fold in cooked dinners. Taking care of him, and taking him out. Men have a lot of advantages in this world. What most don’t understand is that if they invest in A good woman upfront the dividends will be exponential. . .
But divorces are catastrophic, especially since they happen 30-50% of the time!
@@Handlebrake2 Which is why it’s worth it to take your time to get to know someone up front. It doesn’t guarantee anything but it sure helps your odds! If they don’t want to take you to dinner then it doesn’t look great. I could get onto statistics about how much more dating tends to cost women versus men even if they pay, but that’s not the point here.
Usualy in IRAN men pay but in general let's not find our mate and get naps instead???😪😬
💯
Men do not date in Iran lol
I don't understand why you're degrading other human beings to thier sexes when while you're on date you're not with ordinary human but with sepcial person with name , intrests etc. Because of that you have much more variables which you should include in your judgment on who should pay yet you did not mention that at all. You based your jugment on his sex and culture and degrading a person to these two simple categories is not nice. Another objection which i have it's the way of showing someone intrest. Why material goods should be viewed as proof of that when emotional and time envolnment are imho far better markers of if someone is really intrested in you? Maybe you agree if that but by not including that it sounds quite shallow
50/50. simple
No one should pay for the date u dont have a date!!!
When I went on my first date with my current boyfriend he wouldn’t let me pay a cent. Like actually
For someone who has expressed profound feminist views in the past, I'm taken a back by this. You don't need the approval of others to have an opinion, I'm just curious why a man paying for your date signifies anything other than just paying for your meal. How do you know this guy isn't out there entertaining 3 other women? What if he is just paying for the date cause he thinks he's gonna get sex out of you by doing so?
Furthermore, seeing men as solely a wallet in this scenario speaks to a larger problem here. How we expect men to more vulnerable if we treat them like they don't have feelings at all?
If I was a guy, I wouldn’t pay for dinner dates with 3 or 4 different women a week if it’s just for sex. Unless if they’re making BANK
@@TheNinjapancake14 Yeah but you’re not a guy. Even if you were, you’re speaking for you. You’d be surprised what ppl do just to get in your pants. It’s insane
Of course you feel "safe" if a guy pays, you didn't lose any of your money lol. She said let us have this one thing, well you girls are fighting to be equal why should we?
Her point is that guys could be participating in the cultures of disposability and over-sexualization. What that means is that the guy isn't actually interested in the women, but is viewing in-person dating the same as hookup--ahem, dating--apps: He is shooting his shot with many women with low costs to himself and high returns (protean sex)--but the woman is used for her sexuality. Whereas if a guy shows serious interest, he will not hesitate to invest into them (pay for dinner), thereby showing his care. Thus, the woman feels "safe," as the guy is genuinely interested in her, not viewing her as a hottie to wine and dine, but as a potential girlfriend.
*But yes, men absolutely can buy women things and feel entitled too.
@@matthewk2388 Well, you know what they about assuming. I could easily reverse what you just said and say that a guy paying for the entire date could be his way of trying to buy the woman for sex essentially. How bout we just have open dialogue and honest conversations when we date that way there is little to no confusion.
@@secretlyclever4062 I already said that in the asterisk. But I completely agree with the ideal situation being transparency and honesty.
Traditional women want men to pay, however today's women are anything but traditional. So you can pay your half or starve. Your choice.
I (male) have no problem with paying on the first date. But I would not say that should be the LAST vestige of the patriarchy to fall.
So, what vestiges of patriarchy should last a bit longer?
How about, "Women and children first?"
I can't see any REAL man shoving ladies aside to secure a place in one of the Titanic's lifeboats.
That reminds me. I'll have to re-read Real Men Don't Eat Quiche.
That was a bit of a joke in the beginning 😂 What I’m really saying is benevolent sexism probably shouldn’t be the first form of sexism we look to get rid of-that includes other things than just paying for the date :)
Benevolent Sexism.
A new term. I like it! I think I qualify, too. The ladies, especially, point out to me that I am FULL of B.S., but they are always reluctant to reveal what B.S. stands for. At long last I now know: Benevolent Sexism!
Thank you yesreneau! :)
I agree with Reneu here. In the very first dates, The guy should always pay unless the girl specifically asked the guy out first. Even then if both of them insists, The guy paying just seems appropriate imo
Why
lmfao i was going to ask why also. just out of curiosity,, clarity is just a matter of thought and will point either way. I just wonder how traditional if at all this appropriateness might be...
Nahhh, women need to at least offer to pay
@yesreneau do you offer to pay the tip when on the first date?
I’m curious because I went on a date with a friend from the past after he was bugging me soooooo often to go on a date with him. I finally said yes. I dressed so cute and did my make up, and he came in water resistant shorts and a tank top. Lmao. Then had the audacity to ask if I wanted to split the bill. I said “No! Wait is this a date or just friends grabbing food?” He said it was a date. Girlllll I was sooooo turned off, and caught off guard, so I offered to pay the tip. But high key, I feel like I should not have paid ANYTHING! Also, I wanted ice cream after the dinner and paid for my own dessert. He turned me sooo off because I know if I asked him on a date, I would have paid for everything. I am a affectionate woman who loves to give. I grew up in a traditional two parent household and with siblings who are all loving. My love language is gift giving, so I want a partner who also is giving because if not, he is just someone who takes. Am I so wrong for wanting a man to be a gentleman and to pay? I have many gfs who say they go half on a date because they don’t want to feel like they owe a guy anything. I think that’s ridiculous because why even bother to give your time and effort to a man who you feel does not care for you? As I get older, I noticed I tend to have less tolerance for bs such as a guy being cheap but still having the audacity to try to get coochie. *thanks for listening to my rant* lol
You can thank the sisterhood for rewarding bad behavior constantly. In general I believe if a person places great importance on material/wealth over getting to know a person's morals and values, the relationship won't last.
Also, a lot of women extract from men only.
Legend has it that if I say 'POOP' YesReneau is going to pin this comment
I always pay for dates but I will say that it sucks going out and getting drinks at clubs and maybe dinner (can be close to $100 at a New York bar/restaurant) just to be ghosted on the other side. No one owes me a second date…but I remember about a month ago, I met this girl on hinge who was really cute and her plans fell through that day (Saturday) so I invited her to party at I got invited to and I got her dinner and drinks. Afterwards, she just ghosted me, and it really sucked. Cuz the convo was great, and we dancing and kissing 🤷♂️
My point is this: if you want men to continue to collectively pay and assume difference, then show the dignity to at least text back. Otherwise, it will become more dysfunctional and eventually dating is barley gonna exist… just straight hookups, no vulnerability and relationships will be dead