❌ CANCEL CULTURE VS NINTENDO 64
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2021
- Clayfighter 63 1/3 or Sculptors cut were hardly the greatest games on Nintendo 64. But now we have a scenario where these 2 games, and others like get and fighter destiny 2 may be cancelled due to their historically stereotypical character designs and themes.
Full article here
www.videogameschronicle.com/f... - Hry
Hi Glenn! Chris Scullion here. Thanks for the kind words on the article - love your channel. Chris
Boom there we go. Was it a Nintendo mag I recognised your name from? I really enjoyed the article, I’ll have to keep an eye out for more of your stuff now as it was contextualised really well I feel. I’ve also just pinned this at the top of the comments so hopefully people can head on over and sub too,
@@n64glennplant It was indeed! I wrote for the Official Nintendo Magazine from 2006 to 2012. These days I'm the features editor for VGC and I also write video game encyclopedias - I'm actually just finishing off a Nintendo 64 one, coincidentally! Hope all's well with you otherwise, and keep up the stellar work. Chris
@@TiredOldHack Holy moley, it's the one & only Mr Scullion! Remember you from the ONM forum days (and your really so-bad-it's-good crab joke!)
Hi Chris! Big fan of your work, I would religiously buy ONM every month after school (I’m 32 now!) - did you join when ONM went through a complete revamp as soon as the GameCube came out? I remember Luigi’s Mansion being on the front cover…that would have been 2002. Good god.
Just finished reading your Mega Drive book Chris. Excellent stuff.
Ironic really, as ClayFighter 63 1/3 had a character removed during development because they were worried it might cause offense, HoboCop.
Seen the movie “hobo with a shotgun?” 😂
Sounds like they were worried about getting sued from the owners of RoboCop. I highly doubt a hobo offends anyone even today.
@@BurnCrushExecute I'm personally "hobophobic" myself *badumm tsss*
@@Schimnesthai I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.. I'm a post op hobo and identity as HEY, YOU, and BUM
Everyone should have the right to be offended
I remember playing this game with my brother and step brother's. We had so much fun playing as Kung Pow we were in a fit of laughter when we figured out his full, super long taunt that he quick became our favourite character.
Games like this aren't trying to hurt anyone, at least not intentionally. I'd hope that anyone looking back and playing this game today will take it for what it is. A silly clay-mation fighting game with some unique (if somewhat stereotyped) characters and have a laugh.
I believe the ones who claim he's a "stereotype" and that he directly reflects all Asians are the real racists. 🤫🤫
He's just a fictional character in a fictional game. After all, I've never seen a fighting the jack-o'-lantern in real life have you?
It's even better when you see the people offended on behalf of others. I've been told before too that I should be offended by certain things by some of the people I went to college with. It was pretty annoying.
Someone Who Has No Stake in Whatever "this" is: "Doesn't this offend you?"
No one is allowed to laugh in today’s day and age
This was already an old argument in the 90s with regards to censorship of books such as Tom Sawyer.
I’m an old fashion believer that people can make their own choices. I don’t like when others make choices for me. People who don’t like the material can make their case, but I should be the one doing the boycotting… if I agree with you.
Also I don’t like changes to media from the past. I don’t like the changes made to the Star Wars movies, changes to color timings of 4K re-releases of old movies, or new "improved" soundtracks. I just want to see media the way it was originally released. I like to put myself in the time period in order to understand how people thought at the time.
Even though I think outdated ideas in old media should be an obvious expectation, I can get behind a screen that warns of offensive content. This preserves the original, but allows people to continue watching a piece of history.
Media: Clay fighter 63 1/3 is too offensive
Conkers Bad Fur Day: Awww that's cute *sips coffee*
We should blacklist people offended by videogames so they can't play any videogames anymore
😂 not that’s a unique approach
Video games, like all art, are a product of their time. Erasing the past really doesn't change or fix anything. If anything, it can serve as a marker to how far we've come. I personally abhor political correctness in all its forms. Stereotypes (including those of my own race/background) exist and can be used for humor or storytelling quite effectively. The only time I ever get "offended" is when a double standard is applied. If we can't make fun of one group, then we should not be able to make fun of any group and vice versa. Either it's all OK or none of it is. I think people are far too sensitive these days.
Well put there Wayne
What significance does "sensitivity" play in terms of gaming preservation?
@@vehtty It's because of that overly sensitive nature that has developed in our society that these games will not see the light of day. I kinda figured that point was obvious.
Couldn't have said it better.
Have you ever considered that not all jokes are created equal?
Like, if you and your friends are hanging out joking around, but then you all start bullying a mentally handicapped person, that isn’t cool no matter how much you and your friends were joking with each other.
Expand that to society at large and there you go.
Being an adult is really hard, and if you have certain types of neurodivergency it can make it really hard to “read the room”. I appreciate that, and am a bit more patient than some people….
but it really is as simple as “don’t be an ass”. Idk why that is so hard for some people, but judging by this comment chain, that does seem to be really hard for some people.
I also think it’s really weird that you think of them changing a game for a rerelease is “changing the past”. The original game is still there. You can play it now.
Can I ask why you feel entitled to be given a new and updated version of these games?
I don't believe in book burning, so I wouldn't attempt to eliminate history. I love game preservation. No sense in distorting the reality of the past. But I 100% get them not wanting to add certain games to the online platform that will only serve to upset people. Their NSO platform and game preservation seem to be unrelated IMO. I'm more upset that their service is trash, personally.
Yeah I think that 2 very different paths will be taken with the preservation community going one way and service providers going another
NSO will be dead in under 10 years and all ‘preserving’ it did will be gone. Look at the wii. Emulation is the only way to keep old games alive due to corporate greed and terrible license issues
Very good points here 👏
@LibtardsStillCant SilenceMe17 But if white people don't feel offended on their behalf however will we know it's offensive? 😉
@LibtardsStillCant SilenceMe17 Exactly, I think we should allow everything and let people decide what get fucked with their feelings. For instance, all this book burning going on with critical race theory? I think we should teach CRT in all our schools and let the kids decide if they like it or not. We shouldn't let offended parents get to dictate what gets taught in schools or what gets published in media.
Quite frankly I’m exhausted of all the eggshell walking with respect to cultural references. We live in a time when video games can realistically portray someone’s head being cut off, or their body being exploded into a thousand pieces, and seldom a word is spoken by the pro-censorship crowd over the portrayal of such ultra violence.
And yet, the article you reference in this video is right: these “cultural insensitivities” have practically become taboo at a commercial level now. Look at what happened to the Major League Baseball radio broadcaster who said the word “careful” in an Asian accent - his career, his entire life’s work, was crucified INSTANTLY by a bunch of people who don’t even like baseball; they just heard about him saying something ***insensitive*** and suddenly there’s a horde of keyboard warriors all lining up for their pound of flesh.
I think social media has been our undoing. The rise of social media has coincided with the rise of all the hyper-sensitive nonsense.
Sometimes, I wish Al Gore had never invented the internet.
The worst, I feel, is the racist "on behalf of" people. The people that aren't really offended, the material in question isn't about them, but they are "standing up for people that can't stand up for themselves". If you feel that you need to stand up for an entire group (race, sex, ethnicity, etc.), you are essential saying that their entire group is less than you and that you are better than the entire group of people. I do totally agree with you, btw, Dave
@@croe5357 thank you, brother.
Pretty sad if this is the case because Sculptor's Cut was kept from most of the public for so long already. To flat out ban it now would be a bummer. And it made so many improvements over 63 1/3, which was an unfinished game. Likewise Fighter's Destiny 2 is a great hidden gem of a fighter. On a positive note, Nintendo is currently much better about not censoring games than Microsoft or Sony. So I think there's hope we could still see these games.
They’re good games as you said, shame if this would be something which stopped them getting more attention
I bought 63 1/3 in the 90s from toys r us and have definitely wanted to try out sculptors cut for a long time. I’m sure I’ll emulate it soon
Meh, I'd say 63 is way better due the combo system. Its absolutely worth the missing characters.
Sculptors is way more unfinished gameplay wise despite the slightly more polished presentation. High five doesn't even have claytalities ffs lol
Are they at least making repros?
Only Sony is censoring games.
just a loud and small group of people on twitter would consider this offensive and some of them just pretend to be offended just for the clout.
I do often wonder if that’s the case but I try not to get involved in too much internet community based stuff as I find most are quite toxic environments
The woke crowd really is making our world grey and dull.
I don't think the Asian fighter from this game is more inappropriate than the protagonist from Shadow Warrior. That voodoo character seems way more problematic.
Never played that I don’t think
Banning controversial work often has more to do with avoiding difficult conversations, I think. If we are in a more respectful place today, and I believe we are, there's really nothing to hide from.
I grew up with Clayfighter 63 1/3 and knew from day one it was not supposed to be respectful depiction. People did not feel differently about this game upon launch; one of the other fighters is a disgraced quasi-naked Santa Claus. It was never confusing what this game set out to do; absurdity was always the point. I feel like that's a significant yardstick when looking back, let's not kid ourselves by implying that Kung Pow was ever supposed to be a sane or relatable character. He crawls around under a wok at one point, for crying out loud. Reading into him as much is an enormous misunderstanding and we should hold the bar high for media literacy, that's our responsibility going forwards.
Yup. Dislike button gone. 8.3k views only 440 likes 😬
And soon this video will be demonetize, comments turned off, and possibly a strike given to the uploader. Sad times we live in.
To forget the past is to ignore where we have come from and by doing so we fail to learn where we “should” go. These are games and I hardly think the developers were intentionally trying to offend people.
Yeah I think that too, perhaps more a product of the time of which they were made
This game probably wouldn't sell enough with a re-release to warrant the controversy. If anything, the controversy may lead to more attention than this mediocre game would have gotten in its own
Not the worst comment section here, Glenn.
While I wouldn’t expect to see many games with embarrassing racial stereotyping rushing to be re released, (Worms Armageddon’s characters voices anyone?) if they are I hope they come with an acknowledgment of offensive content and stay as is. It was really a different time- not that it was ok back then, but I personally think it’s a cowards move to hide or edit for re-release in most situations just to play it safe. When it comes to looking to the past at any work of art/media there will always be things the creators aren’t proud of, or even come to regret. Acknowledge and grow. I can’t believe I’m calling Clayfighter a piece of “art” tho lol anyways, F**k racism, and f**k censorship too.
Amen to that! And also I’d never thought of worms in that way either!
It's kind of funny you mention Worms since they're getting reprinted on N64, I don't think they will change anything.
@@JetWolfEX the Limited Run one right? Looked pretty cool esp compared to NA cover art being so boring. Doubt they changed anything with the actual game. I just played the original release recently with some friends and noticed those voices. Prob wouldn’t fly if debuted today.
Humor is supposed to be offensive, it only becomes a problem in the eyes of over-sensitive people. Being incorrect or "not ok" means it is not for all audiences, it doesn't mean it's wrong and should be censored.
The problem is when stereotypes are treated as an actual representation of a culture or character. But, I don't expect everything to be portrayed accurately in media, the whole point of a cartoon is exaggerating odd traits into having them appear comical.
Exactly, they aren't there to be taken serios.
People should be more relaxed and not feel offensed by everything nowadays.
It's shit heads who don't play the game are the ones that ruin it for us!!
I think there is a difference between playing on stereotypes for laughs and using stereotypes to be mean and spiteful, Clayfighter is doing it for laughs and there is no ill will.
That’s how I see the portrayal too, doesn’t make it right but guess that’s a product of it’s time when that was more acceptable
I think it's a tricky subject that deserves infinitely more nuance than most people give it.
Ideally, we should be able to take the piss out of everybody for every reason without any hate being involved. It's a sign of intimacy among good friends that they can talk shit to each other and joke about stereotypes while knowing that there's zero malice involved. You could even argue it's infantilizing to think in terms of "punching down", and just reenforces the White Savior trope. Like "oh it's fine to call me a mayonnaise-American, I'm a tough white male who can take it, but I wouldn't *dream* of making fun of weak little you, let me protect you."
But if I'm not among my friends, a stranger who hears my stereotype-based ribbing usually doesn't have any real way of differentiating whether there's malice involved unless I make it clear that there is. Even attempts to show a lack of malice are on the surface indistinguishable from tactics used by actual racist shitheads.
And when you have a recent history of certain groups being downright dehumanized by that sort of humor, you'd have to really lack empathy to call them overly sensitive. Especially when you look at extremely marginalized groups like trans people, and you see the same idiotic smallbrain "jokes" that always pop up every time they're mentioned, and the link between this bullying and their high suicide rate.
All that said, censoring it is just whitewashing and is itself disrespectful to the people hurt by it. It happened, and we shouldn't pretend it didn't. I think the perfect compromise is how Looney Tunes did it with the Whoopie Goldberg intro - leave in the content, but have a disclaimer about it.
👏
History should be preserved, unadulterated. If you need to add a disclaimer, add it to the pre-launch interface.
Offensive stereotypes are still important to preserve.
Agreed. Kinda like Caroon Network when they showed old cartoons from their libraries and had warnings acknowledging that the material in them would be considered controversial by today's standards but they want to preserve them for their cultural and historical significance. If we can't look back at where we've been then we can't move forward.
Boba Fett's ship hasn't been renamed, it was a clickbait article. The ship is still called the "Slave I", the article claimed that it was called the Firespray, but Firespray is simply the model of the ship and always has been. It's like claiming the Millennium Falcon is now called the Corellian YT-1300f Light Freighter.
Is that the case? I saw that all over the net for weeks but it made sense although to be honest I didn’t even know it was called slave 1 until then so that’s the depth of my knowledge on the matter
The ship was renamed to "boba fetts starship"
@@kevinm4x Not renamed, that's just the toy branding. Like Glenn, a lot of people weren't aware of the name of the ship to begin with. "Slave I" has yet to be spoken by an on-screen character, so kids will ask their parents for "Boba Fett's ship".
But if you search the official Star Wars site's database (not Wookieepedia) for Boba Fett's Starship, it still says "Slave I" on the page.
I am on Chinese descent, and I personally do not see anything wrong with Kung Pow. It's just a comical caricature and should not be taken too seriously
Offensive media shouldn't be censored or locked away forever in a vault because it isn't commercially viable anymore.
It should come with warning signs that explicitly acknowledge the attitudes contained in it, exactly how Warner Bros present racist and xenophobic pre-WWII cartoons.
Something like:
"These works have attitudes and bigotries that were socially acceptable at the time of their production and in no way represent the views of the producers today. We feel it is more respectful to the minorites affected by these attitudes not to whitewash or erase the evidence of [insert bigotries] aimed at them"
Censorship will never help people grow and understand the world we're in.
People who don't educate their kids about, say, white supremacy are only stunting their development, not 'protecting' them from corruption. They're part of the problem.
My two pence.
Very eloquently put ✌️
The main challenge here is whether we believe withholding the past is the same as cancelling the past. If the game still exists in its physical form from its N64 days, and we can still trade, play and talk about it, has it really been cancelled? Not putting it on NSO is an effective method of not exposing it to today’s modern sensibilities and the knee jerk reaction that comes with those sensibilities. But should people have the choice? Usually the bottom line is what dictates something’s existence; if it is put on NSO and hardly sells, it - like any art form - will follow its natural evolutionary path. But what if it does sell well? Is that then a reflection of people’s actual views on these things as opposed to what they are supposed to say on platforms such as Twitter to appear popular? It would be interesting to see the sales data on an obscure game like this, especially when it is compared to its original sales figures in the 90’s.
i don't think history should be erased. we need to remember things like this.
Or learn from it too
History is not going to be erased because two N64 games don´t appear in the Nintendo Switch.
@@mendez704 I'd ask you to expand the possibility of the consequences of erasing two games...sure, it seems minor, but is it in the long term?
@@mendez704 Slippery slope.
I always thought the character was tongue-in-cheek and not meant to be insulting or taken too seriously. But people are too hyper-sensitive these days, what are we going to do.
Remember how some games allowed no blood/green blood to be toggled? Classic can still be released but if there is a "updated" version with most of the offensive dialog/text replaced with grunts or something it might make it easier for younger gamers to swallow.
At this point, some of these games regardless of depictions are still worthy of existence. Walk into some art exhibits and there are usually notices of " outdated cultural depictions". They might offend some but you dont see duct tape covering sections of a 400 year old painting. Seeing something from a prior time and sensibility makes you appreciate the progress we have made as a society.
That’s also a very valid point!
If you’re going to apply that kind of logic to the often hyper-stylized world of classic video games, you’ll just end up censoring vast numbers of titles out of existence. If so, should we even play Street Fighter II at this stage? Surely, by this line of reasoning it would include various offensive cultural stereotypes that should have it banned outright? What about the renaissance currently being experienced by the shooter genre, surely it has tonnes of problematic female characters that could be deemed triggering to some sensitive players? Are they going to be whisked off digital stores and physical shelves for fear of their malign influence? Probably not. Also, the grey import market will always put paid to most of this questionable censorship as with the region-free machines of today, most gamers can just bypass whatever western hysteria exists and head on to eBay or Play-Asia and acquire the titles they want from such outlets.
What ‘offensive’ stereotypes? There are a bunch of stereotypes in Street Fighter(fighting games in general are basically built on stereotypes, especially if you’re doing a ‘world’ tour type), but I’m not aware of any offensive ones. There are a number of actually offensive cultural stereotypes I’ve seen in various fighting games though, that I wouldn’t mind if they disappeared.
@@ruekurei88 I imagine there are some sensitive players out there who might take issue with the likes of T.Hawk, Dee Jay, or Dhalsim if the Twitter outrage fever gripped them hard enough.
exactly, stereotypes are not offensive by themselves, they only become offensive when watched by over-sensitive people.
I remember seeing that Grease school production article and wondering why, apparently there was literally just a few people that took issue with it and the school boards cancelled it without consulting anyone else, students or parents, madness.
I saw a video with college kids discussing old James Bond movies - was a similar outcome
I think the term cancel culture is a politicization of some activites we take in every generation to look at our past and try to correct the problems we now see in our content. It's a good idea to revisit our morae and take inventory of what we could do better.
"Cancel culture" is just the latest repackaging of the same age-old moral panic about some nefarious elements within society conspiring to destroy sacred cultural institutions. Funny how today's grifters and reactionaries long for the halcyon days of the 1990s, as if their forebears didn't spend that whole decade lamenting how "political correctness" had already ruined everything and made it so You're Not Allowed To Say Anything Anymore Without Being Accused Of Racism For No Reason...
People who are hung up on "cancel culture" are extremely gullible and it's probably always gonna be a thing and it's *so* fucking sad.
I think no company would want to create controversy by putting these games in their recent catalog in ANY form...
That being said the ROMs for these games are well distributed around the internet so at least they're not gone. You can still play them...not legally of course but... well, anyone that likes retro and obscure games are well versed in this kind of thing by now...
I think that is okay to not want to associate this kind of content with the Company image nowadays. Even If I myself sometimes don't like some of these "censorships". Like the ones japanese games are getting now.
But I think racial steryotipes are a more serious problem in how It impacts how some people in more developed and wealth countries see people from other ethnicities.
Back in the day i never thought about these things, and to this day is very hard for me to understand, it could be because there was never a context given to me for this, since i live in south america, and when the discussion popped up, i always dismissed them as being deepshits, because to this day i have hardly seen anyone be really affected by any of this stuff, and the people that talk the most about this here, is only to fill their political agenda, it is sadly pretty obvious to notice, or they wouldn't be talking about this stuff, because there is no need to do so, there are other more important things that they should be talking.
I remember being pissed at them censoring Mr. Game & Watch in Smash Ultimate, because the character had a feather on his head, it was something so minor, and even though i understand the context, for me it felt more like them censoring history, the idea on the character was to portray with each moveset the different games he appeared on, and sadly the character will always be incomplete... and the problem seemed to only be happening there in USA, so i don't get why the rest of the world has to get it censored as well, by doing that they made it more of a deal to everyone, all though for everyone (besides USA) there was no problem at all.
CORRECTION: I remembered a voice from the past, there was a campaign against a certain slur towards gay people, the problem is that the campaign backfired and people started using it much more than normal, it was pretty funny to be honest. The problem is that people barely used that word anyways, and it was mostly towards anyone instead of just gay people. Now when people talk about bad words or stereotypes is mostly just on political campaigns, hence why i said its mostly for their political agenda.
I think comedy is comedy. Unless you’re outright calling whoever you’re parodying as trash, I think you’re fair game to make whatever joke you want. Now as for Clayfighter 63 1/3, we don’t need it on NSO. This underrated gem needs to be polished up, added online and released on all current gen platforms
Yeah. As long as it isn't mean spirited then we should be able to laugh at each other and ourselves. Stop being obsessed over what overly-sensitive say and stop letting them control what we can say or do.
I understand how some things are inappropriate (and were then, too) but to me games are equally art and entertainment, hence I cannot stand for censorship in art, no matter who's offended. These items must be viewed from the historical perspective of being part of our childhood. Playing them does not constitute agreeing with the stereotypes presented within them. We're old enough to make that distinction. I am not impressed, nor will I ever condone this type of reasoning. It is a matter of principle - art is not to be censored.
I really hate seeing older media getting blacklisted. I always feel the people who have an issue with games like Clayfighter don't even care or ever played the game and are only doing it to satisfacy some sort fair and moral justice they believe in. They usually only protest against certain sterotypes, but won't say anything about characters like Mario and Luigi who clearly don't represent Italians, but no ones takes offense like you should. Personally, offensive content is ok to me, and in Clayfighters case its not meant to be taken seriously and if you are offended no one will force you to play. That's just my thoughts, I just believe you should be able to like and play whatever you want and be allowed to enjoy it. But hey, your allowed to react however you feel and voice your opinion, just don't ruin it for others.
You make a good point. People only seem to be concerned when stereotypes go in a particular direction.
I don't think it is wise to look back on the past with moral absolutism, regardless of the time period, nor should media be scrutinized for breaking today's standards when it was kosher at the time.
Disclaimers seem like a fair way of dealing with this.
I think that sensitivity has taken over. I grew up in an era when you were told that if something offended you - don't watch it, don't listen to it, don't play it. Pay it no mind. Now we've gotten to the point where anything offensive is almost treated like it's sacrilege. It can't be allowed to exist. Like it's become a past time to fine tooth comb through everything, and cherry pick anything off color, like we have nothing better to think about than what offends us. In the case of old video games, it's reading far too much into the "meaning behind" the art, than what it ever intended I'm sure. Personally, I think this Clayfighter wouldn't make it just due to be a niche game and not a top tier N64 classic.
that was actually the reasonable, mature approach to deal with something we didn't like. It allowed for true diversity and freedom for both developers and gamers, it allowed us to search for what we liked. The current generation cannot deal with anything that remotely disturbs their fragile little world. We had not made progress as a society, we have regressed.
Now the entire universe must be outraged about what it is told to be outraged about.
(Something) has no place here.
(Something) is not "our" values.
No tolerance from the people who initially claimed to be the bastions of tolerance.
Some of us remember how things were just ten years ago... (while most seem to have forgotten since 2017, as the censorship on social media was pushed harder and harder after certain events)
This reminds me of the controversy of Speedy Gonzalez from Looney Tunes. I remember a group of people claiming he was a stereotype and was insult to the Mexican culture and thus he was removed from future Looney Toones shows and iterations. I come from an Hispanic background and I can tell you that majority of Latinos were upset of his removal because he was loved character by Mexicans and Hispanics in general and the only people complaining about him it seemed were people who weren't even Hispanic. It just seems that today's generation can't handle the media culture that was relevant back in the 80's or 90's but that's how you know I'm getting old
Sadly, Apu from the Simpsons didn't survive from cancel culture and was erased, despite that most Indians I personally know of who watch the Simpsons, actually like the Apu character.
No warnings and no censorship, just teach people (kids and adults alike) that books, movies and videogames are products of their time and are meant to be enjoyed as they are. That's it.
I always loved history in school, was my favourite subject to study. I wonder what it’s like now in classrooms sometimes when they approach topics of a sensitive nature
@@n64glennplant In our history book there were a couple of photos of people being executed. One in Vietnam war - quite a famous picture of a summary one by a General. The other was a middle eastern, public type one, "mid-swing" shall we say. History is not always nice and rosy.
As an italian who is represented in gaming by a short, fat, moustached guy who shouts "Mamma mia" and waves his hands way too much when he speaks, I believe stereotypes played for humour are not really offensive. I'm not familiar with ClayFighter but, judging by this video, it has a clear humoristic approach so I don't see many reasons to censor it. There is a problem when the stereotypical representation of a category is the only representation in media, but I think nowadays we're mostly past that, at least as far as racial and cultural stereotypes are concerned.
When releasing old content, I think that they should put a disclaimer at the beginning "this conent is persevered in its original form, the beliefes and ideas do not necessary adeher to our current ones, etc"...
I think the idea of playing/watching old content is just that - see things from the past. Altering it any major way would make for a different prodcut altogehter.
Ill give WWE Network (not Peacock) a pass here: theres Chris Benoit content in there. They could ve just banned it, but they didnt. Same could be applied to games.
I think the Tintin In The Congo approach is probably the best possible way to handle commercial re-releases of potentially dodgy stuff. Hergé himself disavowed that book, and it's rightfully recognised as astonishingly racist, but it's still available for sale without any content changes... but it's wrapped in opaque plastic and kept in a completely separate section of the store from the other 23 Tintin books, and it includes supplementary written material discussing the context in which it was conceived and published.
Media preservation is crucial, regardless of whether a given piece of content is low-quality, bigoted, or considered unimportant - however, I don't think that's a valid rationale for commercially re-releasing games featuring (e.g.) prominent racist caricatures. That's where the Tintin and Disney+ solutions fall short: although providing that additional context is objectively much more responsible than uncritically reissuing questionable material as-is, they're still profiting from that material, and thereby implicitly endorsing it. From an ethical standpoint, it's like the difference between having a massive bronze statue of a slaveowner in the town square and being able to read about him in a local history museum. (Very serious analogy, I know, but it's part of the same cultural discourse addressed in this video.)
Cases like this are best handled by dedicated preservationist organisations like Archive.org and the Video Game History Foundation, imo.
I think the version of Worms Armageddon on PC removed some of the more questionable voices.
Glenn is there any chance you will make a video about the mystery of the Diddy Laugh? People have been cataloguing and investigating the origin of the children's laughter that plays at the start of DKR for decades. It's really interesting!
Haha you know I hear that all the time !!!! Like on the radio and stuff in other media forms
The Raj was my favourite voice to use on Worms and was real bummed out when they took it out. Thank God for mods!
Props to opening up this important discussion! I did a thought experiment; what if my favorite game was deemed offensive and was put in a similar situation. In a way I am starting to get salty with the ports and remasters coming out which are sloppy (I guess not everyone can be as good as Nightdive). So I think I can be happy not seeing some games not getting re-released. Perhaps rare games are an exception, but the Atari had some rare games which were offensive in their own time, which I would rather not see rereleased again. I still think all games should be preserved in one way or another; like in an archive of public ROM dumps of old titles. Maybe the emulator development and rom dumping community has a purpose in this kind of scenario.
Honestly I feel it should just do the wading thing, I just don’t really agree with censorship
I miss the 90s
Fun times for sure
I was a kid back then and while cancel culture was not a thing, there was already moral guardians, parents associations or politicians calling for video game/manga bans everytime something bad happened such as Columbine shootings. Saying Pokemon was satanic and shiz. We were less connected and exposed to those reactions though.
Point is, I just enjoy games and try to ignore any major socials/media happening. Also, products of their time should be preserved for studying and education, not hidden.
We don't learn from past mistakes by pretending they never existed. They should be made available with proper warnings about how that is currently not ok and it's a product of that time's culture, so people have a better understanding of the situation.
Nicely written cesar
It's like living in the movie Idiocracy in the 1950s on Bizarro's planet.....
This game will not see time on the NSO. Unless it's heavily edited and the stereotypes are removed. I would like to see it in it's original state but in 2021/2022 that won't happen.
I think it’ll likely never show up
I personally believe a content warning would be adequate. It's really no different from the "viewer discretion advised" notices that appear before certain TV shows. Nothing wrong with raising awareness of possibly objectionable content in games. However, to completely blacklist the title and make it completely unavailable even to people who are fine with its content would be overstepping. Many people might be interested in titles such as Clay Fighter for the historical context and to deny them that does not bode well for game preservation. That's not to say that people can't object to such content. Content like this wouldn't and shouldn't be permitted in modern games, but I think that it's important to realize the historical context behind these design choices.
If I remember right, the Slave 1 renaming was in a Lego set, where they just called it Boba Fett's starship or something like that.
Thanks for clearing that up
I recommend Clay fighter 63 1/3. I remember renting at blockbuster, and then bought it right away. I never played Gex or the other game you mentioned buy I want to add them to my collection. For me the cartridges and original hardware is important.
I was such a big clay fighters fan as a kid!! Good video, man and awesome topic from anonymous!!!
Haha an anonymous person not the organisation! 😃
@@n64glennplant ahh I know, but it does sound a bit more exciting that way 😅
I last I heard, Disney decided to avoid calling Boba Fett's ship Slave I in official merchandise and possibly in future narrative works. They would be using alternatives like Boba/Jango Fett's ship or the Firespray (which refers to the class of gunboat it belongs to). I don't know if they actually are renaming the ship itself. Given the fan outcry, they better not. It would be just as bad as editing A New Hope to make Greedo shoot first.
There is a difference between erasing the past and perpetuating and/or endorsing it.
I know it's not related to the subject matter, but I do miss fighting games where random stuff would fly out of them. You don't see that in any rated T or E brawling/fighting games anymore.
It's not the past that was in the wrong but rather the present. If anything, current media products should be censored until they are to comply with the standards of the past.
Amen to this
Anyone who finds this offensive does serious have too thin skin. The game is silly and over the top. If this is what you regard as something to be taken serious, let alone 25 years later, you should seriously rethink your values. If anything, you could praise the game for being so diverse, it's portraying EVERYONE in a silly way, regardless of cultural background.
The only N64 content I've seen canceled was Glendust's video on top 5 N64 games for men.
Old school right there 🤣
I think my first exposure to Clayfighter was on SNES back before the N64 came out. The vibe of the game was always kinda greasy to me and I didn't enjoy it. The animations were good for the time but the fighting felt sort of clunky and the special moves were pretty absurd and not often useful. Usually when it was suggested we play it, we would usually just end up playing Mortal Kombat instead.
Anyone remember the controversy about the original Japanese release of Ocarina Of Time? About portions of the music in the Fire Temple?
This is nothing compared to the new GTA games today
Man it’s been a long time since I enjoyed a gta game!
As an Asian i actually find Kung Pow kinda funny, but I get why he is offensive. Only as long as others don't view Asians as such it's no big deal for me at least.
I feel like this issue could easily be solved by just removing the character in question? Then again, I feel like a remaster makes more sense with all of the features of 63 1/3 and Sculptor's Cut restored. A proper remaster with solid polish could make the game pretty solid - not a masterpiece but solid^^
Removing the character just because some people find it offensive it’s like removing hamburgers from the restaurants because some people think eating meat is wrong. The game had a vision and, as with any art form, it should be preserved as is.
When it comes to things from the past. You shouldn't change it. I think streaming services like Disney+ do a decent job of just putting a disclaimer at the beginning that the movie contains old and outdated stereotypes or misrepresented cultural references. Games should do the same for anything that might be controversial like this. For new stuff, there's no excuse. Cultural stereotypes just aren't funny, and the people who are part of those cultures don't think so either. Of course, you get the small group who are fine with it, and then everyone thinks those outliers are the spokespeople for their entire culture. We need to evolve and change and I'm glad things like this just aren't okay to do anymore without repercussions. It's a GOOD THING that all these companies are so hesitant to do this stuff now. Just because you think a racist joke is funny doesn't mean it's actually okay to do. Just because someone wants to murder and skin someone alive doesn't mean it's okay. When it comes to basic human rights, and an entire culture wanting to be respected, just freaking do it.
I'm pretty leftist, so I understand how Kung Pow would be offensive, but imo pretending something didn't exist (racial stereotypes in this case) usually doesn't serve any purpose. It could and should still be available, albeit with a disclaimer that it is a product of its time and should be viewed as such.
Wouldn't Houngan from Clayfighter 63 1\3 be an issue for similar reasons?
People are too sensitive.
I think Cruis'n World, were it rereleased, might come under fire for the stereotypical way it depicts some of its locations. Especially with its music (Kenya, China and Japan: I'm looking right at you).
I really enjoyed Clay Fighters 63 1/3. Kung pow was one of my favorites since he played like a Street fighter character. That being said I would also have to agree with why this game won't get a re-release anytime soon.
And this is why having the original product is so important. If I want an older game, I'll get a reproduction. Just flash it to a N64 cart and plug it into the console (like with Dragonball Kart). To answer the question, no, there should not be any list. If I find the content of a game offensive, insulting, whatever, then I don't play it. I don't find the characters of recent GTA games particularly sympathetic and thus have no interest in playing them. That's just my personal taste. I wouldn't try to prevent anyone from playing it. I'll leave it up to the individual to decide.
I think some bloke speculated something in a videogame article for something that has not even happened. A tenuous non event 'certain' types of people get bent all out of shape about.
Sadly, we are living in the era of cancel culture and the dictatorship of strongly ideologized minorities. These days everyone is afraid and tries to please the red asian dragon, out of $ interests (look at how they chopped Finn's role in the new Star Wars trilogy, or how the new Spiderman complied to their censorship standards). Companies are also afraid of angering those vocal radical groups (and a lot of those people are financed to make noise, they aren't even part of the target market) so they go along with whatever the current trend is...
In similar news, RimWorld has just been banned from sale in Australia under games that;
"depict, express or otherwise deal with matters of sex, drug misuse or addiction, crime, cruelty, violence or revolting or abhorrent phenomena in such a way that they offend against the standards of morality, decency and propriety generally accepted by reasonable adults to the extent that they should not be classified."
Some people take stereotypes seriously. Take a look at the interracial dating market.
Ever see that no neck guy? 😂
Id say that their best bet is to put a content warning similar to the ones Disney or WB put for their old cartoons in their respective streaming services.
But assuming the game was coming to their service, racialy insensitive characters is the least of their issues when it comes to their online service.
They didn't even bother to program controller pak in the emulator for the games that use it.
Everything that is sex, race and stereotype related will be a target. Such as Conker's bad fur day, man I've seen so many people thinking this game will arrive just because they saw Banjo Kazooie coming to the service, a doomed wishlist considering how RE4 VR was butchered with censorship, we all want this type of thinking to stop but judging how things are turning more and more restrictive I doubt we will see games like that again.
I'm not sure what all these comments are about. Nothing here is getting cancelled. I seriously doubt Clay Fighter was ever being considered for the Switch, even ignoring it's questionable content.
I've seen this way too many times now. Somebody brings up something from the past and writes an article claiming that it just wouldn't fly today. Then everyone freaks out crying CANCEL CULTURE! Meanwhile, not one person has actually done anything to try and cancel whatever thing.
I am in favor of releasing things with disclaimers on them yes. I am a fan of old 30's cartoons, many of which have inappropriate black face gags in them and I even have a DVD copy of The Birth of a Nation. However, i'm not the kind of person who condemns people if they found something offensive. Their lives were different than mine, they're going to react very differently to something that affects them personally, and when I learn reasons of why they are upset, I think to myself if I were them I would've been offended by it as well. In addition, I find people who get angry about other people being offended by things to be quite boring. They're over there trying to signal themselves as paragons of stoicism virtues but I can tell with the evidence on mine eyes and ears those folks are very far from being stoic. Thank you for talking about this issue without screaming and swearing a storm in your microphone. I wish more youtubers were like you.
Thank you - and I wish everyone on YT was as easy going and open minded as you’ve shown 😄
Jon Benet Mysteries 64 will never see the light of day on NSO
That ones over my head twerk
@@n64glennplant that's a good thing lol
Haven’t made up my mind on it, yet. I’m currently leaning towards preserving older pieces of art rather than banning them because humor or style is outdated and doesn’t meet sensitivity standards. On the other hand I see that I can’t know how badly some things might trigger people or groups, so I’m stressing that I’m still making up my mind.
Cheers!
PS: funnily enough: the company I work for recently banned words like „blacklist“ as it is considered being outdated as well. I’m not criticizing but merely pointing out that things change and if it’s just words I don’t care. Culture though… Difficult topic!
I think video games are art, which is step by step being recognized by society (or our societies worldwide). Changing or withholding the art from the younger generation is not the way forward. But I understand that the world has become more sensitive, so I think a disclaimer or some other form of education on those sensitive topics should be included. This could be in form of a loading screen, on screen hints in textform or additional intro videos at the startup of the games. Some way that is not disruptive but visible.
That's the reason ratings exist and should be respected. Children should not play games developed for older audiences but there is no need to treat older gamers as children. The world has become over-sensitive, hypocrite and self-entitled.
To me, cancel culture has gotten way too far and times where politically incorrectness needs to make a comeback like South Park. Still after Shang-Chi and The Ten Rings gave more respect to the Asian-American community, I think having an outdate warning is a good idea like what Disney+ is doing and Fighter's Destiny 2 character Abdul can be changed as Aladdin and say "Save me Genie!" The biggest question is can Shadow Man be on the NSO?
I don't especially think stereotypes are that bad of a thing within reason, all countries have them at the end of the day and they can be a bit of a laugh whether it's your own country or other countries. For example, me being british I know there are a lot of stereotypes of british people and I can see the humour within those stereotypes.
Yeah I also think that there have been some bad ones about other countries for much longer that never seem to get shaken off. It’s a tricky one for sure
What are these British stereotypes? And how often do they come up? Any specific game characters? I'm British too and struggling to think of a stereotypical British character in a game...
@@snowball1988 Henry Hatsworth comes to mind. Typical well-to-do British gentleman who can't put down his tea cup. (Haven't played it myself, but I'm sure he also constantly says things like "cheerio" and "tally-ho".)
Also, Richard Rose from Sunset Riders. Many of the bosses in that game are based on ethnic or national stereotypes, actually, and the game has seen some censorship on home consoles.
Come on Kung Pow was hilarious how are you gonna cancel the Nintendo 64 over clayfighter lol
It’s strange because I didn’t find any of the characters offensive or funny I just saw them as characters but I’m neurodivergent so that’s just me
Yeah they should cancel Frosty and Sumo Santa for warping Christmas or that stereotype that says Cluck you using Voodoo lol
@@n64glennplant I'm not sure that it's a neurodivergent thing specifically.
There were lots of things that didn't seem like a big deal at all when we were younger. But now that there's so much more discussion around them, it's a lot easier to notice when things are potentially insensitive/"insensitive".
Either we were clueless back then, blindly accepting these insensitive depictions because we were conditioned to think they were normal...
...or we didn't see anything wrong because nothing _was_ wrong- and now people are just going out of their way to reinterpret things as hurtful and offensive.
It's the latter my dude. People are just idiots
When you deal with old media, you will inevitably deal with values dissonance. I'm personally glad that we moved past the need to laugh at racial caricatures. In the end it's down to personal sensibilities how much you can handle. I have no emotional attachment to this game and the racial stereotyping here very offensive, even for the time, so I wouldn't feel good playing it now, but it would certainly be different if this was a childhood game. And there would be nothing wrong with that, as long as I can acknowledge the racism issues. I think a lot of people can't stand having 2 different conflicting emotions in their heads ("I love this game" vs "this thing is racist"), but really, once you accept it, it opens the gate to a lot of interesting thoughts.
I think that Disney handles it pretty well, i.e by acknowledging the problematic content, but providing the work unchanged. And yet even Disney has their limits, as shown by their continuous rejection of Song of The South. On the other hand, I totally understand that no publisher would want to touch a racially offensive game, especially such an insignificant game as Clay Fighters. Nobody is trying to gather all the existing copies and burn them. If anything, with emulation it's easier to play this game now than ever, so it's a pretty silly debate overall.
These were done to parody stereotypes in fact still to this day non western countries still use every type of racist jokes regardless of if they have friends of whatever race is being parodied.
I'm really tired of this woke culture era where my white friends who are comedians are afraid to say racist jokes especially since I'm black. and it depresses people that they can't do risque jokes like these anymore. Even my japanese friend is no stranger to making racist jokes and we all have a merry chuckle about it.
Keep in mind this is done like once in a while and we do this among ourselves where we feel safe and happy to say dumb shit together, then we just crack on with whatever stuff we're doing.
Me and alot of good people are still for respecting others and going against dispicable abusers. That's just a normal common thing and we all should continue to keep on respecting each other and take out those are abusive pieces of trash.
But sadly we now live in an era where even being an actual decent nice guy who said or doing something as a risque joke is now considered one of the worst people in the world now.
Even risque jokes can help get you and your friends through the long boring hard days of work.
I talk about sexual jokes, race jokes about mine or my friends, I sometimes go "here comes my dumb black/ n-word ass", political offensive jokes all the time.
The Woke/Cancel culture only cares about the good and bad... there is no more inbetween.
Everyone has to do a some form of small sin to get through the day once in a while. And this era wants to get rid of it.
There is gonna be a big trending change where people are gonna say "Woke culture/cancel culture is a mistake" and go back to being normal functioning people and will take down those who are actual assholes who do some really fucked up abuses. Which is the way it should be.
Also people who like to burn the toxic history of bullshit our predecessors have done can also fuck off.
The more they try to deny our history the more they'll end up repeating such mistakes, more people will become to soft for the common harsh realities of this dark world that they should've accepted years ago.
It's not the same thing as a supposed group of 'friends' mocking each other, when you know their boundaries and limits but it's different with a game, film or other form of media when the audience is not the content creator's 'friends'. Anything for mass consumption should be sensitive to not mocking people's differences and it's not the same as humour or a joke between friends
I agree with the article, the games will be blacklisted..
But.. i feel that we can't erase the past, ppl need to know what was acceptable in the past, even if it for sure isn't now days. The Disney Warning is good enough
I remember watching a friend play this from a rental in 98~ish and both of us being a little uncomfortable even then. XD
This seems to be the general sentiment among the comments, but I think for the sake of preservation, I don't think it should be blacklisted or altered, simply have a warning when you launch the game, similar to the one Disney+ or the modern Tom & Jerry home video rereleases have
Disney has flat out banned things from their platform - the Michael Jackson episode of the Simpsons has been removed.
Speaking as someone who works in marketing, I don't see Nintendo sticking their necks out to put Clay Fighter 63 1/3 (or Sculptor's Cut) out on the Switch. Whenever something like this comes up, you have to weigh cultural significance against the potential backlash, and how it will affect your bottom line.
Okay, take Disney--perfect example. Dumbo and Peter Pan contain some pretty questionable racial material, but they are well-liked with the general population and got stellar reviews from critics. There is artistry and craft and they are undoubtedly good films, warts and all. Song of the South, on the other hand, was decried as racist WHEN IT CAME OUT and got middling reviews. I've seen it. Even if you excused the racist stuff, which is REALLY hard to do, it's a C-minus, tops.
So what to do? If you edit the films, huge chunks of the plot are missing and fans would decry you for censoring a work of art, and rightly so. But if you hold it back, you are leaving money on the table. Peter Pan and Dumbo might sell subscriptions to Disney+ because of how well-liked they are; they're money-makers. Song of the South never was, so you will only get backlash no matter what you do--best to just leave it in the past.
And now, to the topic at hand. This is Clay Fighter 63 1/3. I hate seeing art die, but this isn't exactly watching the Library of Alexandria burn to the ground, is it? Even if you loved it as a kid and appreciate the game for what it is, is this really the hill you want to die on? I doubt even many of the makers of the game would go to bat for Kung Pow, truthfully speaking.
I'm not saying there's no value to Clay Fighter 63 1/3. There is. But some art from the past might need to stay in the past. People who REALLY want the game will find a way, but some people--a lot of people--might not understand it, or want it and don't even want to be exposed to it. People change, cultural attitudes change, but art is forever, which is a double-edged sword. We keep growing more mature, but Kung Pow stays the same.
I really hope they don’t cancel any of the games like that In the end they they are just video games you can create anything Grandtheft auto you kill cops and Old people that should be cancelled if anything
Everything looks to be on the up and up here.
Pokémon diamond weekend 😄
I want to believe that as a society we have gotten better at being aware of others, however sometimes I really feel like we are just over sensitive about things like this. I think if people want to take offense to something they will regardless of what the topic or subject. I have no issues with people looking at something and saying "Wow... that was kind of messed up..." but the idea of trying to block out history is a horrible idea. Those who deny their own history are doomed to repeat it.
Very well put Paul
I think anyone with the slightest interest in this game is probably old enough not to care! Having said that the stereotype caricature wasn't actually funny in the first place and the game itself was always a bit average. While I'm no fan of cancel culture it's hard to see this one being missed by many people if it's left off the service.
I think people who own sculptors cut would be more offended if it went on switch online as the cart values would plummet
Mostly referring to Looney Tunes and the Tom & Jerry shorts but still valid:
“Some of the cartoons here reflect some of the prejudices that were commonplace in American society, especially when it came to the treatment of racial and ethnic minorities,” she said. “These jokes were wrong then and they are wrong today, but removing these inexcusable images and jokes would be the same as saying they never existed, so they are presented here to accurately reflect a part of our history that cannot and should not be ignored.” - Whoopi Goldberg
With that said: Don't like it, don't play/buy it. Simple as that. Censorship doesn't solve the problem. I wish people concerned about a character from a from a forgotten fighting game franchise would really have interests in solving problems in the real world.
exactly
I think taking a page from what Warner Bros. did with the old Looney Tunes cartoons would be appropriate. If I remember correctly, some of them include a message with something to the effect of "The content in these cartoons is a product of their time. They were wrong then and they're wrong now, but it would be disingenuous to pretend that these cartoons were never produced." I like this approach more than the Disney method of scrubbing it away and pretending they never happened.
Yes that’s what someone else mentioned, I haven’t seen any wb stuff in years but that’s a much more open approach
I think it's an honest way to tackle it, but I'm also not the one that's hurt by this stereotype in particular, so I don't really get to tell others how to feel about it. I absolutely understand why folks would be turned off by this one, though.
That is interesting to hear about these games
thanks
@@n64glennplant you're welcome glen
There would be those who might say 'people were not as offended so easily back in the day' as an argument, but for me I believe like anything of the past, it shouldn't be kept hidden. It is a mark of its time and if anyone gets outraged, it shouldn't be at Nintendo. It should be a reminder of progress if anything. These were games of the past, if it was acceptable back in its time, then it should ok to have it released in the view of a game of the past era. We don't ban prejudice/hateful literature of the past just because it is no longer an acceptable viewpoint. We would never learn from our past. I rented this game from blockbuster growing up, and I would love to play this again
The only reason these games are controversial is modern politics. No one would bat an eye at a stereotypical american or british man.
I’m severely offended by Austin powers 😄
I remember timesplitters had a Chinese restaurant map and chinese chef character heck one of the arcade missions was shooting tons of ducks. I don't recall any outrage over that. Silly how everything is branded as political these days. 🙄
Good point! That’s a great example I wonder how that may/may not be tackled now as TS is a series which needs to come back
@@n64glennplant Yup totally agree the fps market is kinda dull these days we need more frivolous fun bought back into the genre.
@@malonkelp couldnt Say better ts Was really a fps that was about fun