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John Gartner served in the Aussie SAS, Rhodesian SAS, Selous Scouts and more, Ep. 77
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- čas přidán 21. 01. 2021
- John Gartner served in the Australian SAS, Rhodesian SAS, Selous Scouts, South African intelligence, and as a trainer for Sri Lankan recce teams. He then went on to do executive protection and security work for incredibly wealthy individuals before starting his own company. His memoir is titled "The Fading Light."
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In this bonus segment we talk to John Gartner about his private security company OAM and what they are up to today, amongst some other inside details about the private security world. www.patreon.com/posts/john-gartner-46766140
Thanks to The Team House for the platform to clear up some of the many misunderstandings about Private Security and Military companies (PSC/PMC) and the positive role that they can actually fill
@@johngartner6026 John: I apologize for my delay in deleting my earlier set of comments that began our regrettable series of exchanges. You seem like a very decent chap who performed your duties with honor and dedication, so I wish you the best and plan on buying your book to see how many of your comrades I remember working with, especially MacKenzie and Murphy. Incidentally, Murphy was a couple of years older than I and so was in Vietnam before I arrived for my first tour in 1966, but he actually preceded me in the same Marine unit by about 18 months. I did not serve in the Rhodesian SAS like you did but I'm sure you and I knew hordes of the same people in the Selous Scouts, so I have just one question: did you ever come across Captain Rod Smith? I never saw him again after he left 3 Commando and went across to Assault Group in 1978, but didn't he also spend some time with you fellows in Recce Group at one time?
Have to say thanks to Jack and Dave for having given me the opportunity to tell my own story on such a well-known and high-quality podcast. I was and remain flattered by the Team's support. Good to see the subscriber base is approaching 100,000 subscribers. Well done, well deserved recognition
Loving the interview, you’ve put in the time, sir!
Thanks for sharing part of your amazing story John. It's great to hear from a fellow Aussie & a less well known part of history, at least for me. PS. Thanks Jack & Dave! What you guys are doing in recording all this history is priceless
Thanks to you too for the positive feedback.
Thank you for taking the time to share your stories and experiences to all of us in the US.
Even for English speaking policeman in SA so much more could have been achieved if Afrikaners were more open minded and seen SA as a country with many peoples in it as I saw on Oom Willys farm in LTT after Malan dealt with the Berry incident!
Hi John, I’m a Kiwi who served a tour of duty in the Rhodesian SAS in 1976. I think you were there during that time. Richard (Doc) King
Hi Richard. Yes I do remember you, long time ago. I hope you are doing ok. Regards
Outstanding interview! John Gartner and those many good men from foreign lands who committed to serving Rhodesia as our 'Brothers', I salute you. I served with many of you gentlemen (in the RLI & RAR) and your service to Rhodesia is respected and was/remains enormously appreciated. SALUTE.
Hi Russell I Knew Robbie Fulton, of Fulton and Evans and 5th in Sinoia
Sorry hit wrong key, 5th Batt Sinoia
Russell your an equally amzing counter insurgency fighter! I have enjoyed listening to you with Hannes and John! God bless you sir!
A truly amazing bloke. I can’t think of anyone else who has served in so many different special forces units: Two SAS units, Selous Scouts and the South African Special Forces. He then provides security services in countries that you wouldn’t want to spend your honeymoon in. His book Fading Light is a must-read military memoir too.
All the best from a fellow Adelaide lad.
Thanks Darren for the kind words. Another Adelaide boy....I'm from Findon (in the 50s and 60s Findon was one of those places where "the poor" lived!). Thanks also for the commentary of my book. This sort of commentary is what helps spread the word. Stay well
John so I was 30 and serving with RR, now 76 . Time flies but memories of those days are still sharp.
Yes Hudson, we are ageing and it is a burden, losing friends and colleagues with regularity...
Salute to you John....from ex RLI, 2 Cdo.... Served with 'Skippy' Steve Devine RIP, a good man an Aussie and a character to be proud of.
Thanks Zane. I appreciate hearing from former RSF members. Trust you are travelling well wherever you are. Cheers
As John stated previously, you did what you had to do. The enemy is the enemy to be killed. Salute again from RR
Just to add what John has touched on about his initial selection into the Australian SAS. I was on the selection course immediately prior to John's as I recall, late 1970, as a national serviceman who was given the opportunity to undertake the selection after physical and psychological testing straight out of Infantry Corp training. The requirement prior to our courses was that one had to have served for three or more years in the army or a battalion to gain nomination for selection, so for us coming directly out of Corp training the step was massive, as was the learning curve. Some of our fellow students had already had experience in Vietnam with Battalions, so we were somewhat behind the eight ball as they say. I have read John's book, and can only envy the life he has led.
Thanks John, yes we were fortunate to have been afforded the opportunity at such a young age to attempt the SAS Regt selection. So much of it remains clearly in my mind despite the long passage of years (walking through and up the Stirling Ranges on my own, the patrol practice down in the Collie forests, the sense of pride on the last day, being told I had passed selection and was going on to the para course)
Greetings from South Africa and thank you so much guys for this very interesting series . Hopefully you get more South African and Rhodesian veterans on .
Thank you team house. These interviews are so important for history.
John is a legend among Legends ! Still as sharp as a razor blade .
Thanks for the flattering commentary. Greatly appreciated
What a team, he and his wife. Big salute to his wife to understand him and what he was all about. A very rare thing these days. I wish them a long life of happiness and safety.
Thanks very much for the kind remarks.
Man these interviews are out of this world. Unreal to capture these moments with real living legends.
This guy is probably my favorite guest so far. Really great episode, amazing man, amazing story.
Thanks "First Name Last Name" I appreciate you having taken the time to watch. I also am grateful for the positive commentary. Stay well.
Never met John but I like his lack of BS and flowery speech, same for his book; his is an Interesting story and well worth reading. I'm a generation behind him and with far more limited military experience, but such as I have only serves to emphasise his achievements.
Thanks for taking the time to watch this, and to read my book. Much appreciated.
I have been listening to the entire interview with John .. I have ordered my book thanks to John for sending me the link . To both you guys for interviewing John .. such an interesting and awesome two and half hours and really wanted more of this . Gratitude to you three 👌🏻🙏🏻👏👏👏
Discovered yr channel thru John, great interview, bought back good memories as I served in both units, Rhodesian SAS $ Scouts, enjoyed
Fantastic interview ❤ In Afrikaans we call him a “YSTER” part of a very small group of elite soldiers. Respect I salute you sir!
Thanks, much appreciated.
One thing I have learned from bitter experience over the decades I served in the military and then in the paramilitary commercial security world is that there is certainly space for a good Private Military Company (PMC) in the Africa battle space. The difficulty and the challenge for PMCs is that African Governments are reluctant to pay for Defence needs, but rather they have the habit of trying to exploit what I refer to as "colonial guilt" to get former colonial administrators (not "masters" as is often used) to provide support (logistics, intelligence and direct combat) while allowing their own Armies to run down, to be neglected, poorly equipped and poorly trained. My view of African soldiers is very complimentary, I know from experience they are efficient and aggressive if trained and led well. Mali is a good contemporary example of misplaced support, with the French commitment through Operation Barkhane since 2014 costing France over $1 billion annually, with an engagement now into its 8th year, and substantial troop losses (KIA and WIA) . Training of Mali Army, and then mentoring in the field operationally is the solution most likely to achieve success. This is where a well structured, fleetfooted, lean PMC can, in my opinion (based on nearly 5 decades in the military and security world) do the job better than heavier national military forces encumbered with political considerations. Mozambique too is another recent example of political incompetence, military ineptitude and a decrepit military, neglected for decades, unable to repel an Islamist insurgency incursion into and across their northern province. Now seeking European and US engagement, at no financial cost to their own treasury.
Hello, I've a question for you sir. I recently bought an AK47 as I was inspired by AJ Balaam's book, "Bush War Operator" as he used one during his time in the Bush War. I'm aware that the primary weapon used by Rhodesian Security Forces was the FAL, but my question is how often were AK-47 variants used by the Rhodesians during the conflict? Specifically units, roles, and so on. I really enjoyed the podcast and God bless you!
So glad to have discovered this channel. Great interview! Mr. John Gartner is an excellent speaker and projects humility and professional confidence, despite having an exceptionally interesting life. As was mentioned: a Giant amongst men.
Awesome vid ! Thank you John and the crew !
Great chat by a brave and great man. Thank you John and team for most interesting information of the past in Rhodesia. Salute to Cas as one of the many unsung lady heroes holding the fort during those years. Alistair Fulton.
I'm glad you clarified the fact about so-called mercenaries in Rhodesia. I am Australian and went to Rhodesia and signed up for the RLI in 1977, after a few years in the Australian Army and I got paid $220.00 Rhodesian per month and was treated as any other soldier.
Yes there was a lot of "bs" spoken about who got paid what. At my peak in 78-79 in the Selous Scouts, with all my allowances (including housing allowance) my monthly salary was around Rhodesian $400.
Hi Guys, ex SADF, great episode. Please do a show reference Iron Fist From The Sea - Operator Douw Steyn. Would be great history of 4 Recce before it is lost.
John is good people I enjoyed working for him when he was a partner at OAM
Really enjoyed this conversation
Loved it guys! Thank u so much for interviewing. A total badass
God damn it, I'm just a wee bit short of catching it live.
I see the announcement for days but I never get the 'going live' part.
Just double checked the bell too.
Hit the bell icon and select all notifications.
Wow what a great show! Amazing conversation I have always been interested in the bush wars I believe TTP’s developed then are still valid today!
Thank you John for those true words about Neil, with regards to Project Barnacle and his character. Michael Schmidt would never have written that book, Death Flight, whilst Neil was alive ! Many comments in the book are Schmidt’s own conclusions. He couldn’t even get the town where Neil was born, correct. He is an Investigative Journalist for the ANC.
100% correct, that sniveling SOB would never have dared slander Uncle Neil had he been alive, which speaks volumes!
I love this channel , it’s absolutely amazing . I envy everyone you bring on to this platform !
Excellent two and a half hours episode, thank you John. In the Peter Stiff book on the Rhodesian SAS he makes a meal of spelling your name! Strange how so many officers in charge seem to be clueless - how they reach elevated positions is a mystery.
Sorry, I insult Peter Stiff, it was Barbara Cole in "The Elite" who made a mess of John Gartner's name spelling.
@@jandejong5307 Hi Jan. I think when Barbara Cole wrote her book, there was a general policy of misspelling names for reasons of security (I didn't necessarily agree with that). I made the decision when I wrote my first book, The Fading Light (I am writing the prequel right now) to be open about what I had done as decades have passed anyway. I still work in the security advisory industry so credibility in my business is paramount. Thanks for the comment.
Hello John: Just bought your book and already on chapter 8. Great read so far and I'll get out a full review once I'm done, but you sure as hell took a beating while in the SAS. Looking forward to the remainder.
Thanks John I appreciate the feedback. As I say to people, this is a niche book for a niche market (mainly guys who served with me or worked for and with me after military service). It found its niche, it will never sell millions, that was never the hope, nor the expectation, but I was happy that I got my story out and the response in general has been positive. Stay well. John
@@johngartner6026 Hello John: I'm as far into your book now that you've just left Sri Lanka, so I know there's a great deal more to come. Excellent stuff - especially about the RSA work up north. I'll have a lot more to say as soon as I'm finished.
@@johncroninjrc I contacted Rod Smith (he's in Zambia) and he'd love to email you - how would you like to move forward with that? You can find me on Face Book Messenger, if that's convenient?
Just 2/3rds of the way through his book and I can’t put it down. Brilliant stuff!
Thanks very much for the positive feedback, really appreciated
Great talk, met Chris in Oshakati at 1SWA, fond memories and far to many beers!
Great respect sir. You dealt with all the contentious questions in style. Salute!
Mum went to a girls school in Umtali during the mid 70's. Quite interesting stories, love that they'd all carry round Uzis when they were in town.
Yes Rhodie women were a breed apart for sure - hence how I lost my own heart to one and to whom I am still married 45 years later
What an amazing man!!..
Thanks, Steve, nice to get positive feedback. Much appreciated
Hi John , Good to see you back
Nice with all my local references being In Perth and born in south Africa , love this show
Great interview John. Stay well. Jim
Thanks Jim, and you too stay well. The years fly so quickly
"I was high and looking into the dark..." me too, man
Yes, Liam, as soon as I spoke those words I had the thought that some would interpret it that way!
Wow I wasn't expecting you to respond 🤣
I didn't interpret it the wrong way, I was just being immature. While I've got you here, I'd just like to say thanks for telling your story. Discovering your name has led to a lot of inspiration for my own story I'm writing. Thank you sir
@@liamulrich5274 I actually found your comment quite amusing. Thanks also for the commentary. Good to hear you are writing your own story - good luck with it.
Great Interview! Stoked to read the book! : )
Great interview John, thanks. Cannot believe that you were never awarded a BCR or SCR - esp given CFS, MC and SM got these awards.
Oh well John, life went on regardless. SM. MC and CS all got their awards prior to me joining Recce Troop. I was happy just doing my job, the recognition from my peers has always been reward enough. Fact is after all these years of activities, I don't have one campaign ribbon to my name - never collected them. If I was to march on a military parade today, it would be bare chested. Luckily, I don't engage in such things. Cheers
Respect John. Look forward to reading your book.
Nice humble bloke and very interesting, I hope you guys gave him a coffee mug and T-shirt 🦘🐘😊
Selous scouts had special branch police involved. They helped start Selous scouts. The BSAP also oversaw the intelligence collection function of the Selous Scouts. That function was performed by an embedded element of the BSAP's Special Branch (SB), commanded by Chief Superintendent Michael "Mac" McGuinness; the SB liaison team conducted interrogations of captured guerrillas, reviewed captured documents, and collated and disseminated intelligence
Is this guy in the documentary Africa adagio? The part about the mercenaries? He looks exactly like the guy who has the pet parrot.
Highly recommend Tim Bax’s book - Three Sips of Gin - all about the Selous Scouts
At 19 I was convinced I knew absolutely everything. I didn't learn how dumb I really am until I was 21 and touched down in Iraq
Mate I didn't realise how dumb I was till 42 ! I think it's different strokes for different folks
very enjoyable
I wonder if John knew a Roger MacDonald during his time with the Selous Scouts?
Hi Anna. I just checked the Selous Scouts nominal roll and found these two names: 1) MacDonald G.A.M. (C/Sgt) 30563 and 2) McDonald K.W. (C/Sgt) 729733 Wings number 0391 and offhand I can't place either, but the unit was quite large towards the end of the war and there were quite a few guys there I did not know. Sorry I cant be more helpful. Cheers
roger served in the SAS
@@russellcrous341 Thanks Russell
Who was the mosy elite, deadliest, effective and most highly trained unit between the Australian SAS, Rhodesian SAS, Selus Scouts and South African Special forces? How different where they? In training, facilities and skills?
In the Para's in the 70s we were taught that put a round in a body as you move forward in case they are shamming or wounded and still shoot you so for Brits to say different in Sri Lanka couldnt be hardcore.
They were pretty good guys but maybe they were worried about someone overhearing that (there were one or two guys who served in Sri Lanka who ended up publicly criticizing KMS and those who worked for them, and accusations of "genocide" flew far and fast)
Hullo John, Man of Men
Legend
John u up side down
John,was Tim Callow a brother of lawyer Jeremy Callow ?
Sorry, I didn't know anyone other in the Callow family other than Tim (who now lives in London)
No mention of Executive Outcomes was that because you had already retired.
Never worked with EO but I know Eeben well and am in regular comms with him.
Hello John. I haven’t seen you for ages since Covid19 pandemic.
i was wondering if Johns family also joined him when he worked for the former minister and what would he have to do all day wasnt it boring
Hi Belinda. No my family was in Australia while I worked for Sheikh Yamani. This led to some very long separations, the longest being, I recall, around 7 months (as I was based in London for that task and travelled internationally with Yamani, mainly to USA but with trips as far afield as Venezuela, Pakistan and throughout continental Europe). The job had its moments but in the main, once security operating procedures were in place, the job became routine, and often verged on the boring. This is actually the nature of all close protection work, even for "at high risk" clients. Long periods of sitting around, waiting for the client to move.
@@johngartner6026 thanks for answer . I was also wondering the incident with the bombing you couldnt have known the girl would be there if the jets came in at sparrows fart no one would expect any one to be bring any supplies that early . I wonder if the ters were alerted that the jets were coming noise travels in the bush .Very brave action what you all did .
@@belindaklein467 Yes I deal with the realities and move on, if with some regret about the outcome of a decision I made at the time. The Hunter jets were on the target so quickly, but yes I agree, the enemy could have heard them in their final approach, the growl and roar of the Hunter jet engines was always a giveaway for sure.
Another excellent book if you can find it, is I'll See You in November. Written by a 22 SAS veteran who was tasked to start internal strife between the terrorist groups and was slated to take out Mugabe in one of the fanciful schemes that never came to fruition. I'm sure John is familiar with that operation.
One thing i disagree with is the woe is me comment about ptcd , you really think some people want to be like that ? People are different.
Guys can you get ranger csm mike kelso on
He was Rhodesian army
Combat experience for soldiers
Who wanted action when vietnam war ended!
Much better interview then with koos stander
Daves not a alcoholic... lolol
John what decorations did you receive ?
Hi Belinda. Did not receive any decorations other than the standard general service medals for each theatre I worked. No problem from my point of view, the guys I was closest to and who I considered the best of the best also received no awards. The recognition was and is in the respect of my peers, men I respect in turn.
@@johngartner6026 hey John, 25 year old Canadian here... your story is amazing and you are admirable. Thanks for sharing.
What did you like better, the FN or the AK?
Good morning. I preferred the AK47, it was a simple, easy to use, hardy weapon that rarely misfired. It was also lighter than the FN and shorter which made it easier to carry over long distances through some often quite thick bush.
@@johngartner6026 I’m honored by your reply. Thank you.
@@johngartner6026 Thank you for your service in Sri Lanka sir much appreciated
Jeremy died of Covid early in 2020
It’s a shame that the French, Belgium, and Greeks disbanded their SAS Regiments after WW2.
Could you imagine these three Nations part of the SAS brotherhood.
The French renamed their CCP (SAS) a few times during Indochina and Algeria. Its now 1er RPIMA. Their Commandos are still here also, the Commandos Marine. It is like how the Americans raised Commandos in WW2 but named them Rangers instead. The British stamp on modern militaries is very strong.
@@parappasan That very interesting.
Someone just showed me a picture of today’s Belgium Paratroopers, and their cap badge looks suspicious like that of SAS wing dagger, so I presume that must be a historical connection.
@@parappasan 'Qui ose gagne' is still their motto.
John did you jump with the TR48? carrying it was a bitch
Yes I did jump with the TR48, Hudson, and yes it was very bulky. When I did freefall insertions, the pack containing the radio and my patrol equipment was carried on the rear of the thighs below the butt (to facilitate a stable face down freefall position) whereas with a static line insertion (normally around 500 feet AGL), it was carried in front, below the reserve, and dropped on the end of a rope (about 15 feet long if memory is correct) as you came in to land
@@johngartner6026 Morning (here in Capetown) John, Is it Ok if I keep in touch with you. I wish I had met you in the day. Do you have a mail I can use? Hudson
@@hudsonchalmers6504 sure not a problem, best contact is through Face Book, I am on it, and you can DM me through that. I love Cape Town and I also love the Garden Route
@@hudsonchalmers6504 sent you a dm through FB
Interesting to hear from the side who fought against my dad and uncles. These Rhodesians were brave but unfortunately they made some serious mistakes .
Black Zimbabweans never supported a white supremacy government.
There are plenty of untold stories about black civilians role during the War. For example: the civilians would use coded language to confuse the white soldiers;
Children heading cattle were also used as look outs; Pungwes (all night rallies) ;
It’s all bygones now so good luck to the gentleman!!
Good morning Hungwe. Yes, the people in the rural areas especially were supportive of the liberation struggle, whether by conviction (in some cases) or fear (in other cases). We were well aware of the pungwes, and the use of children ("mujibas") as lookouts, it was all part of the Security Forces' information resources. But yes it is all bygones now and we have all moved on. In Zimbabwe's case, the moving on has meant huge unemployment (90% according to latest UN figures), people struggling to put food on the table or to feed their children, a decimated (almost destroyed) medical services system, an agricultural system that remains seriously damaged to this day, a Reserve Bank that created a currency that became an international laughing stock with its multi billion dollar denomination notes, hyper inflation, very limited foreign currency (because it has been stolen by the political "elites" and their crooked cronies), massive corruption and theft from the people of Zimbabwe, nepotism in the form of an unqualified wife being groomed for leadership (Grace Mugabe), a current President who was so fearful that when Grace and her allies flexed their not so strong muscles, he ran away and only came back to Zimbabwe when the Army Commander guaranteed his safety. As someone who lived in Rhodesia and grew to love it as much as I am sure you love Zimbabwe, I can only hope that the new generation, better informed, will eventually transform Zimbabwe into what it deserves to be
I'm going to pour a room temperature dasani natural spring water of Afghanistan while I listen to the interview
On multiple podcasts you've indicated that you are certain Eddie Gallagher got away with a war crime. My mind is still not made up--why are you guy so (seemingly) certain of his guilt?
Pamwe chete
What was what o was excited to watch was list to me because of you’re poor sound, big let down.Should have been better tech wise. Frustrated to watch.
Sorry to hear that you found the audio poor.