Active & Passive Vocabulary: When Do We Know a Word?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 07. 2024
- đ„ Learn languages like I do with LingQ: shorturl.at/uJSU7
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When do we know a word? Who cares? Just keep pumping words into your brain. Keep on actively pursuing words. Thatâs what we measure at LingQ. How many words you have grabbed and thrown into your brain. How many stick or when they stick is largely out of our control.
00:00 Active vocabulary is more important?
01:08 The process of vocabulary acquisition is fuzzy!
02:03 We may not be able to say tomorrow what we are able to say today.
03:16 The importance of keeping track of your vocabulary.
04:44 Want to learn lots of vocabulary? Keep loading those words in your brain!
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When you think you know a word and does it matter?
Once again, Lingq demands after clicking every single word that a definition is to be chosen. How can I pick a definition when I don't know what the word means? Words in Tagalog can have many meanings. How do I know which to pick. Then if a verb if I can even determine the root to look it up, how can I know since affixes can change the meaning.
Agree. I learned Polish reading and listening to audiobooks simultaneously. It helped me increase my passive vocabulary incredibly. Then I started speaking and words came out naturally. Brains do it by themselves, I don't know how. It looks like a miracle
How did you start learning polish ? How were the beginning ? What methods did you use to acquire your initial vocabulary ?
@@danielleveiga648 I learned how to read correctly first, then basic vocabulary. After that I listened and read audiobooks simultaneously. I'm Ukrainian, so I picked up similar words quite quickly. It's important to notice and be patient
â@@user-hr7kn5xm5o I'm brazilian and I'm beggining my polish studies. Due to the fact I speak portuguese I am a complete beginner in the language, cause both languages don't have similarities :/
@@user-hr7kn5xm5o What audiobooks do you recommend for a beginner in Polish
â@@danielleveiga648I actually thought Duolingo was a good, if slow, way to start. But PolishPod101 seems to be much, much better.
As far as listening goes, there's also movies and tv shows.
"Just keep on shoveling it into your brain" - words to live by
Interesting that even in our native tongue, passive vocabulary outnumbers active. We're all on some point on a continuum of language perfection. With foreign languages, we refer to it as fluency -- in our native tongue, eloquence. The more active vocabulary increases, the more eloquent we become in our native tongue and fluent in a foreign tongue.
It depends on what one refers to as passive vocabulary, and the true passive vocabulary would be the words one knows, but doesnât usually use - I have a huge passive vocabulary in Modern English + Scots dialect + Middle English (I know 60k to 100.000 in all three combined) and I can use those words whenever I want, so for me it is more of a choice not to use them, because most wouldnât understand my comments, so I try to keep my comments on yt as simple as I can, and also because I donât usually have the right opportunity to use them, because the videos I usually comment on are about simple topics such as language learning and food and well-being and other similar things, but in my lyrics / poetry / writing I use all sorts of rare words and Iâm planning to use every single word I know!
I am advanced level in Dutch, knowing over 8.000 base words at the moment, and I would say even most words I know in Dutch are kinda passive, because they arenât used a lot in most videos and I donât see them a lot, so I donât think about them a lot, but I know what they mean, like, if I see an item associated with one of those words I immediately know how to say it in Dutch - there should be a different term for words that one doesnât know well yet, because itâs a bit confusing when referring to them as passive vocabulary, because I wouldnât consider words that I donât know well (words that arenât part of my permanent memory or my automatic memory yet) a part of my passive vocabulary, because passive only implies not using the words most of the time, but it doesnât necessarily imply having difficulty remembering the word or its meaning, but most ppl seem to refer to all of them as passive vocab, which can be pretty confusing...
In fact, I donât even think Iâve ever used simple words such as pedestrian and tourniquet and hail and ladle and grilled in comments - in my comments, I tend to only use words that are very relevant to the topics or ideas that Iâm commenting on, however, that doesnât mean that I donât remember or that I forget the words that I donât use, and luckily I donât usually forget any word thatâs part of my permanent memory, very rarely do I find myself in a situation where I cannot remember a certain word, and itâs always words that I only saw once or twice or a thrice, but words that I have seen more than 10 to 30 times, well, I could never forget those...
@@thetrueoneandonlyladyprinc8038 I'm not so sure eloquence (or fluency) can be achieved simply by trying to activate your passive vocabulary. That's so much effort and not natural. I think it's lot like Kaufmanns recent video on icebergs -- when you feed the under-ice, the top gets bigger too. Likewise, as we increase input and our pool of passive vocabulary gets larger, many of those passive words get transferred to active words automatically without us being conscious of it. It's more than mere vocabulary, but rhythm and sprachgefuhl and which words sound good together and which don't. It requires listening to people who already have those skills.
As your pool of active words gets larger, you begin discriminating and using words more appropriately, like a painter whose pallette of colors is so abundant -- he's free to use more subtlety for more efficient (or beautiful) expression.
I donât need to activate it because it is a conscious choice not to use rare terms and technical terms etc (and the other terms that I donât use on a regular basis) in comments, because I know most ppl that read them arenât fluent in English, so maybe most ppl wouldnât understand the ideas...
You are so right. I can recognize a word passively loooooong before it becomes part of my active vocabulary, and while it's still in that passive vocabulary phase, I have that frustrating sensation of always having it on the tip of my tongue, but I can't quite dredge it up. But then one day, like magic, something clicks in and a whole bunch of the words that I had stored away in passive vocabulary are suddenly accessible in conversation. At that point, it gets easier and easier to recall it in future. I used to get so frustrated with this, but now I just have faith in the process and understand that at some point passive vocab converts to active vocab.
I'm 66 and have been studying languages formally and teaching myself informally since I was a teenager. Until I heard Steve Kaufmann talking about this last year I was always really hard on myself. I had previously never considered I knew a word until I knew it actively. I was hard on myself. Now I realise this both slowed my progress down and discouraged me. If you're trying to memorise so you know vocabulary actively from the start progress is slow and authentic materials are still hard to access. You feel like a failure because inevitably the words you've memorised fade with time.
Now I go all out to learn a passive vocabulary quickly. Consequently I can immerse myself in authentic materials earlier on and just keep doing that and gradually you realise that passive knowledge becomes active but in some logical order ie the words you hear most frequently. I wish I'd had this attitude decades ago.
Iâm 61 and Iâve been studying Portuguese for almost 9 years now and Iâve visited Brasil 18 times and Iâve been practicing every day with my girlfriend for almost 6 years now but I still canât understand her, read or converse without translating everything word for word into English to understand. Even words that I recognize as words that I know need to be translated into English when I see or hear them. I need to find a way to learn without translating everything into English. Any ideas?
I learned the word for nephew today. I've known the word for niece for months, but a nephew has never been relevant until now. Really interesting video, thanks!
Man that family names part hit home. After almost a year of learning Japanese I read ćŒ as âoutotoâ just fine, but still have to think for a moment to remember that it meant âYOUNGER brotherâ and not just âbrotherâ. It really takes time to get used to things that seem so simple.
@Suhnik
Itâs otouto(ăăšăăš), bro
@@unchi1440 đ ăăŁă±ăçĄçă ă~ăèăăźăŻćż èŠă ïŒ
Hang in there! I think the most important thing is seeing a word in novel contexts, that's what gives us the cues we need to understand without effort. If you practice it in the same context everytime, it's much harder. I feel like just reading hits so many important concepts in learning accidentally it's amazing, but people often talk about it a little mysteriously since they don't understand it. It's interleaving, recall, pattern recognition, reconstruction and visualization all in one. But you need the audio too, as no writing system captures sound accurately (maybe IPA, I guess).
@CaptainWumbo
When I got your comment, itâs hard to read your English comment for me. But now, itâs super easier than ever due to my English immersion experience. Generally I agree with you, but I recommend materials with audio letâs say anime, CZcams, podcast etc more than just leading. This is because if you are not advanced level, you shall read sentences with wrong accent in your brain.
Dude even in English I am not sure what a second cousin is and that's the language I've studied all my life.
thank you so much for these videos. i am self teaching myself japanese without a teacher and you are the one who is guiding me right now. i am learning a lot and feel very motivated thanks to you. please never stop these videos !
The key message I derived from the video is to focus on the process, and let the outcomes take care of themselves. I have to apply the same philosophy to physical exercise because it can also take a long time to get the results that I'm seeking.
love Steves content as usual. its so true that you should never try to force words into your head. your brain will reject this. this is why i don't favor anki sentence cards. you spend so much time trying to make your brain do something it doesnt want to do.... but just mass immersion... whether you understand the sentence or not it's ok. just try to get a word or concept out of it and then move on, move on to more new conent!. my brain is much happier since i gave up anki and i am learning words faster
Acquisition is a spontaneous process of gradual picking up of a language's vocabulary. It takes time but vocabulary gets rooted in the long - term memory .In contrast , when you try to learn vocabulary , you may remember it for some time but you will eventually forget it. Your brain needs longer exposure to a language in various ways and various contexts in order to acquire it subconsciously and effectively .
If someone argues about WHAT is most important, your next question could be, âimportant for WHAT?â Passive vocab is certainly important for listening and reading, for example. âWhat is your goal?â
I fully agree that the format of most schools undermine the natural process of acquiring languages. I've spoken with HS foreign language teachers who state openly that their main goal isn't teaching foreign languages. Now I am less dismissove of their defeatism and more upset by how school administrators push them into such a defensive position
Humongously inspiring. You are stupid and old is what I keep saying to myself when I fail to make the progress I want but you are such a force for motivation, hearing you say eg that language learning has ".. fuzziness .. " to it keeps me motivated and keeps me on track.
Hi, Steve. Thanks for the video!
I also don't make much of a distinction between 'active' and 'passive' vocabulary. For me, there's just vocabulary.
Yes, I will have needed to acquire a word somewhat to recognize it. I will have to have acquired it even more to instantly understand it when I hear it being spoken in something at natural speed. At that point, I can pretty much use it if... I can recall it in a given moment. I find it helps to also have to speak and produce some of the language I've acquired as it's a different activity and often gets connected or associated with moments with people. I find it also reveals the gaps for me. But yes, just because I can understand something doesn't mean I can always produce it, but if needed... it will eventually become available when trying to speak even if I draw a blank a few times.
Also, sometimes it can break expectations for me: the idea that if you can use it in speaking then one might think you could understand it.
At least with French, I can sometimes fail to hear and understand less familiar words, depending on the speaker. They can be words I know. I have understood them before and have recalled and used them in speaking. And yet, it can sometimes sound like a blur. When I was learning German on the other hand, I didn't experience this as much.
I find what I don't like about the terms 'active' and 'passive' vocabulary is the same thing I feel when I hear people say 'passive listening' and 'active production' activities. While I understand what most people mean is 'being quiet and receptive' versus 'opening one's mouth and speaking or writing', there seems to be this associated sense with the words that listening is in itself intrinsically passive.
Of course, I might be just associating this with memories of bad conversations. Conversations where people criticized some of my learning activities saying something like, "You would recommend passive listening activities...?"
While, yes, listening can be done passively in a true sense of 'not engaged' or 'not actively involved', when done well, it's one of the most cognitively-demanding language-learning activities for me. Trying to understand as much as you can in real time with all the surprises that might be thrown your way by the speaker? The cognitive load of trying to fill in the gaps or compensate for what you missed while someone continues to speak at full speed?
So yes, for me I don't see as much of a distinction. It feels very fuzzy for me: "I think I've seen it before", "I think I understand it" and "I was able to remember it when speaking."
Excellent advice and thank you!
Honestly, I donât even care if he is right or wrong, he is so enthusiastic and willing to learn, that he inspires me to keep studying new language.
Steve, I have to say, you are AWESOME!
Iâve had an interesting experience that has taught me what works and what doesnât for vocabulary. I studied Portuguese intensively for three years in 2010-12. After that I stopped actively studying but stayed casually engaged with it. Recently Iâve been picking it back up again, and hereâs what Iâve learned: Nearly *all* of the vocabulary that I actively studied with Anki (spaced repetition) stayed with me in my long-term memory - even quite obscure verbs that I hadnât used in a decade! By actively studied, I mean that I added words that I encountered in the wild to my personal card decks and reviewed them regularly over a period of months. Much, but not all, of the vocabulary that I wrote down in my notebooks and reviewed periodically but less consistently, has also stuck with me. Lesson learned: Spaced repetition works, if you personalize it.
What has worked much less well for me is actively listening to a bunch of videos and spoken content and hoping to passively absorb vocabulary over time. In my target language, there are many semi-cognates that are easy to recognize in context, but hard to produce on demand if you havenât been exposed to them. So you feel like your comprehension is high, but you havenât really learned the words or the grammar until you can use them yourself. Iâm sure that you can learn passively to some extent, but it seems a much less efficient way to learn than active engagement with new words.
I totally agree with you đ¶đž
Me han servido mucho sus consejos
Y're an amazing teacher
I know Steve is right, just because of the simple fact that there are words I remember and others I don't, but suddenly at one moment, I remember perfectly well the one I kept forgetting, and the one I knew can't come to my mind anymore.
Good pointđSchool's systems are for teachers and parents, not for learners.
Exactly. I would say many language exams are like that too. For example if somebody has an N2 (equivalent to B2/C1) on the JLPT (Japanese exam), theres a chance that person cant hold a conversation in the language. I have seen this happen too often.
Iâve been mostly focused on passive study through immersion from reading and listening content and also my SRS flash cards were reading cards. Iâm mixing it up to make the flash cards active recall while still doing a lot of immersion. Iâm hoping this helps. I had definitely plateaued with Korean
Absolutely true!
THANKS TEACHER
Measuring your passive vocabulary is pretty easy if you have access too a good frequency list but I canât think of a way to measure your active vocabulary. It would be interesting to know although when you get down to it, if you can say what you need to say youâre good and if not it needs work.
I've been looking for better ways to acquire vocabulary since I wanted to reach another level of comprehension of written and spoken English. One that is very useful to me is reading stuff I like and trying to do the same thing I would do with words of my first language; taking notes of the words I don't know and searching them for meaning, not for translation.
Sorry if this comment it's not correctly written, I'm not very fluent in english and the language it's still confusing sometimes.
Wonderful tip, thank you so much for sharing. I'm am going apply this to my language learning
Gracias me anima a aprender idiomas Saludos desde Chile
Gracias por lo que me enseñaste!!! Ahora puedo entender inglés directamente sin que mi cerebro tenga tiempo de traducir
Mr. Kauffman, is there any step-by-step training video on how to use Linq? I purchased a subscription and have been trying to figure out how to use this method.
Also, do you have any plans to integrate Hindi?
Thank you.
First thank you for this video đ.
Steve I lâ€ve your channel. I downloaded the Lingq app, Steve how can I use it to improve my English level? Do you have any videos?đ
Pls, Steve is possible to imput English subtitles? Will be much more helpful it gonna increase our reading that comes out only in Portuguese, my native language.
Getting your passive vocabulary up to the level of a native is insanely difficult.
It will take around two to three years but that isn't to say that you're not able to read and enjoy the language until then. You'll be able to consume everyday content with ease one year in assuming you use Anki or similar methods to train vocabulary in context.
â@@shahram6869I don't think Anki is necessary.
â@@pauld3327 Depends on what you mean by Anki. Are you saying SRS is not necessary? I argue it is unless you have an incredibly gifted memory whereby you can pick up words by mere sight of them the first time.
@@shahram6869 Yes I think SRS systems like Anki are not the best way to learn vocabulary in a foreign language.
Here is why I think so:
- Making flashcards is very time-consuming. I think It takes about 1 hour a day to learn 20 words a day with flashcards (time to make 20 new flashcards and time to review 100 words).
- flashcards are hard to make. How do you know a word is important ? You will very likely add low frequency words to your SRS system that are not very important to know.
- Making and reviewing flashcards is very boring. I think I could motivate myself to use an SRS system for 1 month but I couldn't do it for 1 year.
On the other hand, if you read/listen for 1 hour at a speed of 150 words per minute, you read/listen 9000 words.
- Reading and listening to your target language is much more enjoyable than memorizing flashcards.
- You naturally come across the most important words several times in different contexts which means you have a better understanding of the words you learn and you learn the high-frequency words first.
- With e-readers, you can get the translation/meaning of a word with just 1 click which means you can look up the meaning of a word several times if you don't remember It, no big deal.
That's why I think you better spend your time reading/listening your target language than making/memorizing flashcards.
What do think of my points ?
@Thelinguist Would you consider having Gabriel Wyner on your channel?
4:55 I remember doing the same with German, suddenly I encounter a situation where I have to speak it, I suddenly switch to German and it starts coming out.
I would love to use LingQ but am learning a language which it does not support (Welsh). What can I use or do instead? Readlang is the nearest suitable tool Iâve found so far...
We are getting closer on Welsh. Please stay tuned. Otherwise can't help you.
Iâve been studying Portuguese for almost 9 years now and Iâve visited Brasil 18 times but I still canât read or converse and I have to translate everything into English to understand. Portuguese words still donât mean anything to me until I translate them. Even words that I have known for years donât mean anything to me until I translate them. I need to find a way to learn without translating everything. Iâve been practicing every day with my girlfriend for almost 6 years now. She only speaks Portuguese but I still canât understand her and havenât had a conversation with her yet. My brain must work differently than most peopleâs brains. I usually learn very quickly and score very high on aptitude tests.
Hey Steve. Will you be added Thai language content to LingQ
If we can more volunteers to translate and record the mini-stories. Still looking.
I feel that AI and how AI learns will revolutionize our view on how humans learn.
It is not through structured content, but through unstructured data collection that we learn. :)
Just load it all in there. More data! More!
I understand some Shakespeare words. Such words i would never ever speak spontaneously.
đđđ
MANY THANKS!
Can we learn a language just by using the Bible? I am a Christian and the Bible interest me a lot! What is your advice on learning languages just by using the Bible or any religious text? Should I study the basics of language before studying the Bible in a different language or just go for it?
I don't know about the bible, but I read far above my level when I got serious by just starting out with one or two sentences a day, where there would already be 10 new words, and listening to what I had gotten to so far first thing in the morning. I was not a total beginner but I learned rather a lot this way. Though now I stick to things I have a high % of known words, reading something very difficult got me there. It doesn't take so long before you can manage a paragraph, then a page, if it's all from one text.
Probably you should start out by perusing a textbook though, it's a bit much to go in with nothing.
I also learn languages using the Bible, which I think helps me get through the morass of learning new languages in the beginning stages because I'm already familiar with the stories and can really help follow along in the new language much faster than if I were using other stories I don't know.
At first, I can only handle one chapter, and then later one book, and you can learn so much about rhythm and pronunciation and language basics by listening to native speaker read these passages. Of course you'll need to expose yourself to wider vocabulary later but you can get a lot of mileage using the Bible at the beginning.
Similarly, small children get fluent in their language with very little vocabulary before they start going to school.
The added benefit is you are spending hours in the Word, which makes you more powerful Christian. It's killing 2 birds with one stone. Go for it.
One caveat, the Bible tends to be more formal or serious than how most people talk, especially in other languages. But I like this too, that's what makes us Christians more sober than the world, and I find this is more true in other languages than in English, where people are so flippant and increasingly so.
Question: When learning a Chinese word on LingQ, how do you rate yourself? Do you say a word is known only once you can write the character?
Experience does not bear this approach out. It works for young children who have no, or very little, language imprinted yet. But in adult learners, a mother tongue is already imprinted, and so there is a sort of competition, or tension, between the mother language and the language one is trying to acquire. I could listen to, say, Laotian for ten years, "loading it in" as Mr. Kaufman says; but with no systematic method for understanding the language, it's magical thinking to suggest that I will spontaneously "spaketh good Laotian" at the end of my "listening" period
So which approach do you recommend?
No one said, that you should not learn grammar at all.
But to the topic, I keep learning vocabulary and might understand/recognize about 700 words but I might only be able to use 300 words. To be able to understand 400 more words makes a huge difference for a beginner. And that wouldn't be possible if I would focus on learning a word "completely" until I'll be able to know, use and understand the word fully. Also I already know words in my target language that I cannot translate because through "loading it in" and listening and reading and watching a lot I DO learn the language a little bit like a child its mother language, naturally.
Any kind of input will be of help to composition. But of course, to compose you must try to compose.
@@userbunny In fact, Mr. Kaufman has a video titled, "Do NOT Study Grammar" (czcams.com/video/BN3wfE6CCgA/video.html). I agree that learning lists of vocabulary is nearly useless without context. Ideally, one has a new word imparted in a "living language" situation; for example, I am presently in Nicaragua. Yesterday I was looking for a "pimienta verde" (green pepper), but the Nicaraguan selling the produce informed me that in this country they say "chiltoma" for green pepper. The image of myself standing at the vegetable stand, and the woman imparting the lesson, gave me a powerful visual context for remembering this word, which I now use on an almost daily basis
@@yannick_yt I'm glad you asked. Not everyone can indulge in the ideal situation of living in a language culture where one sees, hears, and uses the language on a daily basis. Short of this, I'd recommend the approach that my university takes. It has a program called "Critical Languages." Rather than sit in a classroom, which, I agree with Mr. Kaufman, is an ineffective way to learn foreign language (because the class progresses only as quickly as the slowest learner), my school's Critical Languages Program is limited to 5 students, with a native speaker as the teacher. Students are given weekly assignments in accordance with their progress in the language. The native speaker/teacher meets with them at the end of each week to assess their progress. This gives the students an opportunity to use (i.e., speak) the language, and it also gives them immediate feedback from the native speaker. Needless to say, the most successful students are the most highly motivated ones. I think we need to stop pretending that language learning is easy. It's not. As I said in another post, when we try to acquire another language, there is a tension with the language (e.g., English) that's already there, which is what makes foreign language acquisition more difficult in adulthood.
Continuam errando nas legendas, traduzindo eventually, como eventualmente! Eventually em PortuguĂȘs Ă© âŠfinalmente! Isso altera a informação gravemente que o Steve tenta passar! Corrijam!
Some of them you really only understand in the new language for a long time and canât describe in your native language!
Two things emerge:
1) Vocabulary is not binary. It's not a matter of knowing a word fully or not knowing at all, bc knowing fully is not instantaneous. it's a matter of knowing more and more over time. Each of us at different moments in time understands different words either precisely, partially, or not at all, so vocabulary is complex and fuzzy, dynamically changing all the time, and different for everybody.
2) This reveals that to try to categorize vocabulary as active or passive or by any other overly-granular definition is a complete and total waste of time. Accept that it's not a precise target, but a difficult moving target. It's just 'vocabulary', and overthinking it is no more effective than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 'Active' and 'passive' buy us absolutely nothing, and trying to over-define things only makes a person look feckless, ridiculous, and unable to see the clear path the rest of us have no trouble seeing.
So forget all that. It just gets in the way. Listen to what Mr. Kaufmann says, instead.
It may be good, as you assert, to make your vocabulary as complete as you can little by little. But a great deal can be said and written with a vocabulary of no more than 10,000 active words. I'm a 66-year-old Japanese man. Isn't it better to have a good control and command over the limited number of active words you do know? I am NOT too young. What's your advice?
The pursuit of more words isn't just in order to acquire more words. It is a measure of your level of activity, reading and listening. In pursuing more words, you are assimilating more and more of the language. It's a bench mark of your progress, even if you don't always feel it. You can't deliberately get better in the words you know. If you have more opportunity to speak, you will use these words better. When you have less opportunity to speak you will slide. But your reading and listening can continue, building up your base.
@@Thelinguist Thank you very much for your instructive advice. See you in Vancouver! Say, at Cactus Club?
âKnowingâ words on LingQ should be done slowly and cautiously. Keep ââem yellow for a while until you can read a page and âknowâ wtf you are reading
My system is:
1 - New words
2 - Words I can read/pronounce
3 - Words I can understand in context
4 - Words I can understand without context
5 - Words I know
It's working well for me.
This guy comes across as a shill for his own venture and I have a suspicion that he's a charlatan, but his delivery is on point and he obviously has decades of experience. If you subscribe to the acquisition approach in this video, I think you'll take twice as long as otherwise to develop conversational fluency, and never communicate passably with a native speaker. Exposure is for sure a huge element, but you absolutely MUST actively push yourself through those painful barriers if you want to get to a place where you're not automatically written off as an outsider - for life.
I didn't understand anything from that old man how to activate my vocabulary, which could anyone tell me how
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I teach spanish with AI haha