6 ways to rig a 4x4 winch using 2 snatch blocks
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- #winch #triplelinepull #snatchblock
How do you rig your winch with snatch blocks for a 3:1 or 4:1 mechanical advantage? What's a Spanish Burton and how you rig it? When do you need a moving line or a static line? How many types of triple-line pull are there? Watch this video for the answers...
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Explanation is spot on. The only thing the moving distances in a 4:1 should be 25cm for every meter and similar for the others.
I believe he stated 250 cm which is effectively 2.5 meters
yes sorry that was a typo
Yeah, I figured that was just a syntax error. We got the meaning.
Wow. I wish this had come up on my feed last month. I live in a mountain neighborhood at 9100 to 9700 feet of elevation. The thaw on the roads just is not happening this winter. I have performed 3 recoveries this season. 1 not successful, damn near sliding my jeep off the hill. A tree was nice enough to catch me and stop the remainder of the slide. So one of the 3 recoveries was recovering myself! All were single line attempts. I had just purchased 2 blocks but did not remember how to use them. We have just received over a foot of fresh snow and with your videos am going to practice tomorrow. Thank for this information. Well presented. I will look to see if you have safety videos to go with these. I know Ronnie Dahl does but your suggestions here look more complex and i only have 1 apron to lay over my winch cable in case there is a snap,
Great to hear! Consider using the static double line pull to recover others as it will halve the load on your Jeep so less likely to slip.
Damn, I needed teachers like you in high school!
That's a lovely compliment, made my day :-)
Thanks so much, I've been looking al around. This is excellent in every way.
Thomas, in North Carolina, USA
Very helpful video/visual and so informative. Many people don’t understand that the winch is strongest when most of the rope is out. But you stated that very clearly. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. I truly hope that more people go and buy their own set of recovery gear. Having all the gear you need can make the seemingly impossible, POSSIBLE.
Robert, your knowledge as put forth in your content is invaluable. You are a gift to the vehicle recovery community. Thank you for your efforts!
Thank you very motivational please share 🙏
Great video. By taking some time to set up the examples here you’re looking after your expensive winch, battery and rope. Steady steady wins the race. I’ve been taking screen shots of your tutorials so I can refer to them when out bush. Thanks for taking the time to educate us 4wdrivers 👌👌👌👌💪💪
www.4wdhandbook.com
Oath best advice
Excellent!!
Thank you VERY much ... so well explained which means it is more easily understood and importantly remembered 🙂
Sincerely, Ted
You're most welcome
Really great video, never heard of the Spanish burton rig before, “need” a winch extension rope now! 😁
Fantastic educational videos Robert. Thank you and keep it up man !!🎉🎉🎉
Thanks, will do!
Thank you for making this video. Extremely useful and Iam definitely going to practice some of these techniques.
I hope you are making a reference book that covers all of your recovery info in a quick reference format with diagrams.
Anyone that off-roads woukd buy one to throw in their recovery kit so they have multiple options based on available equipment and situation.
Seriously, I'd drop $50 to put that in my kit without hesitating.
See my website www.l2sfbc.com...
Excellent explanation. I see myself getting a line extension and ring to complement my snatch block so the Spanish Burton is an option. It really seems like the best option for a hard pull since you don't have the resistance of the third block to get 4 lines.
Agreed!
Thank you so much, you made it very easy to understand. One small thing I noticed, the number of centimeters the car will move (in a 3:1 scenario) for each meter you take in with the winch, you will be 33 centimeters, and in a 4:1 scenario, 25 centimeters, not 330 or 250. Otherwise, great video.
Yes, you are right..I didn't realise I got it wrong, will have to re-watch!
@@L2SFBC @ 04:07 - But Rob is still the Guru!
Both videos are fantastic, well don Rob
Thank you!
Great explanation. Thanks!
I had so many questions as you were going through the video..
And you answered them by the end of the video.
Very well done.
Some of these things I think I could have worked out.. but only after I broken something and realised I had things backwards in my head. So you are surely saving people here before they make the mistake!
Thank you good to know!
Thank you from sibiria!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
great video
Thanks for a terrific explanation of how snatch blocks work! I'm actually using this information to rig my 1:10 scale RC car's winch. 😀 If I'd known earlier how to do this properly I wouldn't be buying a second winch now!🙄 Well explained and demonstrated.
Glad it was helpful! Please share :-)
I need to get a mini sized setup too, so I can experiment. Thanks very much, your videos are VERY informative!
Thanks please share!
just brilliant Robert
Thanks please share 👍
My buddy and I just came back from a trip in the mountains of Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia. I was towing a Patriot camper and more than once I had to winch myself up an incline due to icy/muddy path that made the rocks slippery. I have a 12k bls warn and at one point I had to use a double line single pulley set up to get up. I wish I had seen your videos prior to the trip. I have multiple snatch blocks and just didn’t have the knowledge. Thank you for taking the time to make such a simple to understand set of videos. I am now much better prepared. 👍
I love to hear stories like this keeps me motivated thank you so much!
@@L2SFBC 🙏
Great explanations, thanks for the video!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Robert, very, very helpful. We have just started 4wd and this will come in handy. We have already done a single line recovery, what we have learned from you would have been helpful back then.
Great, I love to hear that I'm helping people in real-world recoveries!
I have an extension rope but didn’t know about the moving line. Good job.
Thanks please share 👍
very informative.. very simple.. very good video...great learning tool for all to view and learn
Glad you liked it Joe, please share :-)
New sub! Great content! I will be practicing all of theses. Thank you!
Thanks Ron!
Great video, thank you!
Glad you liked it! Please share :-)
LEGEND !!!
THANK You.
4:04 - At a 4:1-ratio for every meter of winch pulled in the vehicle travels not 250 centimeters but 25cm.
Sorry my mistake you're correct
Outstanding!
Thank you kindly! Please share!
Nice info, thank you so much...
Thanks please share 👍
@@L2SFBC alredy shared with my RC group
Extremely well explained Mr Robert, - I have a genuine Toyota high mount winch on my cruiser, they are good quality but fundamentally they are surprisingly weak winches compared to after market low mount winches [ gearing too high ? ]. So your clarification of getting a 4:1 mechanical vs a 3:1 with 2 snatch blocks, with that Spanish arrangement was fantastic -thks --gregoire
My pleasure, like, subscribe, share...all that jazz :-)
Thanks
Robert, I really appreciate your taking the time to explain these scenarios. I am a bit in the dark on the "moving line." I think it was cool that you actually made 'examples' with smaller scale objects... however, I think it would be a HUGE help to see that in action! (I may have to try to replicate those smaller examples to better understand the concepts). What type of line are you using for the "static" lines? For a "jeep" recovery, would you suggest a "strap" (3 or 4 inches) or a synthetic rope?
Also, what happens to the 'static line' (where there is one on the recovered vehicle side) when the recovery vehicle pulls the recovered vehicle? Does it lose tension or keep tension? I don't quite understand that either.
Hi - the moving line is a sythentic rope extension just like on your winch. Example in use here -> czcams.com/video/nVnbPNyLu_c/video.html Would recommend that for Jeep recovery. The static line keeps tension.
Great tips, great video! Just an observation: 1 meter=100cm, so for the 4:1 example for 1 m of winch pull you get 25cm of vehicle movement, not 250cm😎
Oops, sorry about that!
@@L2SFBC No worries! Thanks for the video!
I just thought he discovered a physics hacks 😊
Great video, with one small error, when explaining the line pull vs load moved distance you use cm rather than mm. You say for every m of winch line the load is moved 333 cm you mean mm.
Thanks oops !
I was working on an auger (for transfering wheat into silos etc) it has a hydraulic winch. The cable had broken in the past and was elevating the thing single pull, instead of double with the anchor being the pulley used for the original double pull setup. I was trying to understand what difference it made but now it seems obvious. Thankyou.
Glad it helped, please share etc!
All your videos on winch (1 snatch block and this one especially) have been great for me and understanding what equipment i need before buying too much. Especially great since i am only working with a hand winch right now (expense of new bumper and electric winch is not in the budget yet) and being able to lighten up the load on it directly. One question however, could i use the hand winch in place of the vehicle? So for example in the Spanish Burton offset anchor, the vehicle would become the hand winch and anchor to a tree, then ran out and through the snatch block to the tree anchor you have in the diagram?
Yes you can do that. All of the rigs work with a hand winch - be that a Hi-Lift jack or a Tirfor-style winch or whatever. In one of the videos I show how to rig that.
Robert - You’ve given me great ideas on how to use an ATV- sized winch to set up a portable rear winch for my Rubicon. Thanks. One follow-up question. If I’m using a 2,000lb winch and rigging a Spanish Barton to give me 8,000lbs of pull. What size rope do I need? I think an 8,000lbs test should be enough. With a 2,000lbs winch, the Spanish Barton has two lines at 2,000lbs and two lines at 4,000lbs. Still when I bought my front winch, a Warn M8000S, it came with 3/8” synthetic line that was at least 10,000lbs test. Is using a line with a higher test than the winch’s max pulling power necessarily or just using an abundance of caution. Thanks again.
Use a safety factor so 10k is good 👍
Thanks for your video and I have a question:
On #6, if I add a block at the anchor point, is it efficacious to then use the winch line in lieu of the moving line?
Really need to invest in some more recovery gear. I've come across 3 folks in the last 24 hours that ran off the road into deep snow and a straight pull with the winch couldn't get it done.
Hello, and greetings from Portugal.
Thank you for all your videos, I have learned a lot.
Could you please advise on the setup using 2 snatch blocks but with a manual winch, for a off road recovery? What winch would you choose?
Cheers and thanks in advance!
Thanks - use a Tirfor with a synthetic rope extension and snatch rings.
Just a note. At least for me, this is much easier if you start with the load on the stuck vehicle and follow the load up the lines. Each time you come to a snatch, the load splits in half with half going to each line. Hope this helps.
Yes, great way to think about it, thanks!
Please explain the best setup for a moving line and how to adjust it, thanks.
One thing I find missing in your diagrams and your explanations is the distance that a setup will move a vehicle before you will have to reset the setup. For example, it should be pointed out in your 3 line pull setup that the max distance of the pull of the setup would something less than the distance between the two snatch blocks.
Sorry didn't cover that good point
Your videos and explanations are so valuable! I appreciate all the effort and analysis you put into them!! With the 4:1 benefit you get with the spanish burton, I can see how it reduces the effort placed on the winch and recovery points when doing a self recovery. However, when I working with trainer, he was saying that because I have a 10K winch, I need to ensure I have rated equipment for up 4x that, 40,000lbs at the anchor point. It's a different mind set for rigging for the system's potential vs the estimated actual stuck scenario. Any thoughts on this?
The trainer is a bit wrong. You need recovery gear rated to the load to pull. If that's a 40k load then 40k. You can rig a SB and pull 20k...
Yeah, I think it was a bit on “an extra abundance of caution” side of things. Thanks again!
Great video. Quick question. I saw an earlier comment saying they would all work without a winch. Why is that? When you're attaching snatch blocks to the pulling vehicle doesn't it only work because you're shortening the winch line? If you drive the whole vehicle forward with snatch blocks tied to it, wouldn't it negate their effects?
Yes, correct - maybe that commented meant you could just pull instead of winch? Don't know, yut you are right.
Wonderful video!!! Might I ask what diameter rope do you recommend for snatch blocks and a 4DR Rubicon Jeep without a roof tent? Many Thanks!
10 to 12mm would be good
What are your recommendations for attaching the end hook back onto the vehicle - noone is covering this problem. Not everyone has recovery points, and monocoque chassis are another problem.
You need a recovery point of some sort. No way around it.
@7:10 often the cables or the state of the battery limit the winch performance - for a high torque at high revs the winch needs obviously much more amps, plus running the winch at peak performance (max. torque, max revs) causes more internal friction losses. Thus, from a energy balance, using snatch block(s) is much less stress for the battery even if the recovery takes a little bit longer - if the required torque can be minimized by snatch block(s) the current the alternator supplies might be just enough so you don't drain your battery.
Very true!
I think this is also why it is typically recommended to start your vehicle and let it idle when using the winch.
Is there any reason not to use 2 different anchors in the Spanish Burton offset anchor? Say park 3 vehicals so that the one in the center is your winch with your winch line anchored to the right vehical and then your moving line anchored to the left. This might be advantages if you need to pull a very heavy vehical out since you would be splitting up the force across your anchors.
Only reason not to would be if there aren't any. Whenever the winch vehicle isn't moving it's a good idea to split anchor load if you can.
These extra lines, be they moving, or winch, when needed to connect back to the vehicle, is it "ok" to connect them all to the same anchor point on the vehicle? (hooks and shackles are common on trucks in USA, are these ok to connect a combo of lines to? or should they be connected to diff hooks/shackles where possible?)
Yes you can connect back to the vehicle.
Could you go further with a third snatch block in a Spanish Burton setup ?
Yes
Is the moving winch extension rope kinetic? I wouldn’t think so, but I can’t seem to find a proper winch extension.
Not kinetic.
To clarify :: with self recovery 3:1 , if you winch in 15 feet of line from anchor snatch block to winch , then vehicle moves 5 feet , correct ?
yes
Hi Robert, is it possible to have two points on the car using the same tow eye? EG a double line with two attach points using the same tow point on my car, with the pulley end on a tree. My car only has one tow point on each end but I still want to be able to use pulley(s) to recover myself if I get stuck.
Yes, that's totally fine and no extra load.
@@L2SFBC Great, thanks for the reply
Any video you or anyone can recommend how to rig the vehicle for a sideways pull? Front and back evenly, Or is that not advised?
Will do that later
@@L2SFBC much appreciated
Can you go over the equipment requirements for the spanish burton? IE…does the first set of equipment need to be higher capacity than that of the second set? If so, how much stronger should the snatch block, winch extension and shackle be compared to your winch line and so on. Thank you
The Spanish Burton is a bit more risky if equipment fails compared to more simple rigging techniques, that’s why I’m asking.
The way to look at it is to determine the maximum force required to free the casualty and work backwards off that. I will cover this shortly.
Wow, thank you for the quick reply, wasn’t expecting that. I see what you mean if you’re not trying to pull heavier weight, the idea is to lighten the load with every additional block/line. But in the event I was trying to maximize my winching capability would I want to have a thicker winch extension, bigger snatch block, bow shackle and tree saver for my moving line?
I have experience and training in rope rescues and some quite distant experience with off road recovery and towing. My question is regarding resets during winch operations; how do you recommend doing that? In rope rescues we use prussiks and secondary belay lines to secure the load while resetting the pulleys. It is my belief that synthetic ropes are too slippery to use prussiks to grip the line. How to effectively shorten a synthetic line in the field when your distances shorten?
What are your suggestions? REALLY looking forward to the responses!
Hi Brian, really good question. I'll cross-post it to my Facebook page too. To answer - most recoveries do not need to be reset, as a winch can pull 20m+ which is quite a long way for a recovery. When they do need to be reset, what I do chock the vehicle and relax the winch line. This works in almost all cases. In a very few cases where the vehicle is hanging on the winch line then you need an alternate means of holding it; that can be another winch, Tirfor, Hi-Lift jack winch, or just a chain + rope. But that's really rare, and I would always try and avoid any situation where the winch line is the only thing stopping the vehicle sliding away. I do have an X-Lock and will be showing how to use that to shorten ropes, but a simple way to do it is to simply use a single pulley (snatch block) which has the advantage of 2:1 MA. We can also use chains to shorten winch ropes - especially important if you winch with a hi-lift jack which has a 1m or so pull, so a lot of resetting needed. I'm not sure about the synth ropes being too slippery - probably more the forces we put on which would be anything up to 5000kg or more...undoing any knot after that is tough, and also 4X4 safety factors tend to be 2:1 (if that) which I think is a lot less than rope rescue so any loss of strength in the rope through knots etc is more critical.
@@L2SFBC thanks for your response!
I might be overthinking recovery pulley resets because when we do them we’re using 3:1 and 5:1 rescues up to vertically.
The X-lock looks like our figure 8 with wings; interesting piece of kit. I look forward to some instructions! That looks to solve the issue I’ve been trying to wrap my head around: if I have an extension but only need to use a fraction of it how do I secure to the body of the line and only use the portion I need.
Thanks again. Learning a lot perusing your channel!!
Thanks - feedback always welcome. The FB discussion pretty much backs up what I say, but rope experts do say the 4X4 rope is slippery and not suited to knots. There just isn't much of a need to shorten lines, or MA beyond 2:1. If we have a winch capable of say 3000kg (conservative, 9500lb is 4500) then 5 x 3000 = 15,000kg...and the average vehicle weighs 3000-4000kg. If you only need a part of the extension then vary the total length with your winch, or halve the rope by doubling it back. Something like that always seems to work.
If it came down to it, you could use a steel cable with a grip. I've only done it once in a recovery and no winches were involved. Just two 6T chain hoists and a long bit of wire.
@@L2SFBC Great videos!!! I can see why one would want to shorten the moving line where the XLock might be the best solution. Shortening the winch line means you’re starting with several layers on the winch which is less efficient among other things. Your winch extension may be way too long for the situation so being able to shorten it to take full advantage of the winch may be desirable, no? And a 2nd note, with the spanish burton, should you come back to the same recovery point with both the winch line and moving line, split the load, or use a bridle to center all of the forces? Thnaks!
What kind of CB and where do you have it mounted?
UHF and Bullaburra antenna
Can someone suggest a configuration for pulling small trees with a vehicle with no winch? Let's assume the yellow car is the small tree/shrub to be pulled. I would prefer not having to anchor off of a nearby tree if possible. Would block and tackle also work? Would all 6 configurations work? Thanks in advance.
Yes all 6 will work.
@@L2SFBC Thanks for the quick response. If I was to use 2 snatch blocks and employed method (3: triple line anchor) or (4: spanish burton anchor), I'm not understanding the attachment to the vehicle (red vehicle = pulling vehicle) (yellow vehicle = shrub/tree to be pulled). The illustration shows 2 or 3 lines going to the pulling vehicle. One line is obviously attached to towing hook on vehicle and that one will initiate the pull. Can you explain where/how the other one or two lines are attached to vehicle. Are there blocks on those too? If so, that would be additional snatch blocks to the two illustrated. Thanks. Never done this before so am unable to picture it in my mind. Appreciate your help and knowledge.
I see a lot of arguing about MA and what the actual load ends up to be. With a 4 to 1 MA using a 10k winch does that mean the max load is 10k pull at the winch reduced to a 2.5k load at the recovery vehicle? I have seen it explained as a 10k pull at the winch being increased to 40k at the recovery vehicle?
The formula is - total load required / MA. So if your recovery load is 4000kg, ie it takes 4000kg to move the casualty, a 4:1 MA means your winch needs to provide a 1000kg pull, excluding friction. Winches only provide as much pull as required to shift the load. A 9500lb (4500kg) winch doesn't pull at 4500kg all the time, it needs a load to work against (and 1 turn of rope on the drum).
If you did have a 4000kg load to pull on a casuality, and you applied say 16000kg to it, then it'd bounce right out of its stuck at high speed!
So then I could move a 40k casualty using a 10k winch with a 4 to 1 MA?
Yes!
How do you adjust the moving line with the spanish burton
czcams.com/video/pt93-89fZ9A/video.html
how do you use 3 snatch blocks most efficiently?
Spanish Burton and give one to your mate
Your diagram of all 6 combinations doesn't match your individual diagrams. I believe numbers 4 and 5. Otherwise very help full
Viva la Espana.
2:46 333 mm not cm
I figured out a way to get a 5:1 or even 6:1 MA using only 2 low friction snatch rings. (See the caution note below about the extra stress the ring will see using this experimental method) You have one ring soft shackled to the rigs front end and the other ring soft shackled to the tree. You then feed the winch rope out to the ring at the tree, around the outside of that ring then back to the ring on the rigs front end and around the outside of that ring, then take the winch rope back again up to the ring at the tree and now put the winch rope through the MIDDLE of the ring and then back to the Ring on the rig front end and either anchor the winch rope end to the middle of that ring or the front end of the Vehicle. This is a 4:1 MA. Instead of anchoring it when its at 4:1 ratio, If you do one more pass of the winch rope back up again to the ring at the tree through the middle and back to the rig rings middle, or front end this is a 5:1 ratio I believe. So the rope will be going through the middle of the rings twice. With the Larger snatch rings and a 3/8" rope there might be enough room to get another wrap for a 6:1 ratio. Basically whats happening is you're using the rope going through the middle of the ring as a pulley im addition to the rope around the outside of the ring so each ring acts as 2 pulleys instead of just one, and 2 pulleys are acting as 4 pulleys . The rope moving at the highest speed are the sections wrapped around the outside of each ring and the ring moves with the rope so no sliding friction there. The rest of the wraps going through the middle of the ring do have the rope friction slipping against the ring the same amount as the soft shackle on the other end so it doubles the friction, but it is still the same amount of friction as having another separate pulley, so no real losses there. Since the middle of the ring bend is larger than the ropes minimum bend radius, you can use the middle as a second pulley without much issue. The only thing to keep and eye on is the return rope sections rubbing against each other as they move at different speeds, but so far I haven't noticed any real wear on the rope from this.
One word of caution.... the ropes going through the middle puts additional stress on the snatch rings because now instead of force being only pulling on one half side of the ring, now theres force pulling on both sides of the ring which will cause the ring to either elongate and ovalize or break if the rings maximum strength is exceeded. With a 5000+ lb vehicle, I'd like to test the breaking strength of the snatch rings when load is applied to both sides of the ring just to be sure it can handle the extra forces. I think the rings shpuld be able to handle it, but something to be cautious about. That would be a cool video to see on this channel!
It's really cool watching a single snatch ring turn and act as a double pulley and seeing the ropes going through the middle all move at different speeds.
Need a diagram!
@@L2SFBC Here you go, I made a diagram. The first part of the video shows the 6:1 diagram and then the video switches to a 4:1 diagram at the end. It would be cool to see if you could make a video testing these diagrams and test what the friction losses are!
czcams.com/video/QSRaeuzBQL4/video.html
I made a mistake with the 6:1 diagram though, the line should only be going through the middle of the ring 2 times, not 3.
czcams.com/video/QSRaeuzBQL4/video.html
Metric messes up Americans, but you unfortunately made it worse by saying cm's instead of mm's when refering to the amount of movement of the vehicle vs the amount of take up of winch rope: - at 2:49 and 4:11. cm's are not an S.I., unit, should really stick to mm's and meters.
as soon as that awful music came on , I tuned out.
This is dry
Why should it be moist, and how should I make it so?
@@L2SFBC maybe I should wrote interesting