SIMPLE way to find SURVEY PINS
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Deluxe Map Compass - amzn.to/2dxRVAT
Protractor - amzn.to/2dXAf01
Surveying Book - amzn.to/2dyac3B
---
Subscribe: www.youtube.com...
Visit jandjacres.net for this and other hobby farm activities.
See how we located a long section of our property line using nothing more than a paper map, protractor and compass. Learn how to do this yourself so you can outline your property, place fences or mark off any other landscaping you are trying to do.
To use this method you will need:
1) A map of the property you are surveying: For our example we used a photocopy of the survey that was conducted of our property before we purchased it. Whatever map you are using simply needs to have a compass bearing on it, such as the North arrow seen in the video.
2) A Protractor: For our example we printed a protractor from the Internet, but you may have one available or can purchase one anywhere office or school supplies are sold.
3) A Compass: No need to have an expensive compass. Just be sure that you can adjust the Bezel Ring (The outside ring around the compass spins). For our example we are using an inexpensive map compass purchased from a local department store.
Other items that may be useful, as seen in the video:
1) A way to mark the path you walk: In the video we use twine, but Survey Flagging Tape and many other materials will work.
2) A way to mark points that you locate: In the video we use a left-over piece of a metal pole to mark the point we found, but a piece of wood, Marking Flags and many other materials will work.
#homesteading
#familyfarm
#surveying
One trick we used to use in Orienteering in the Boy Scouts, and later in the Army, was instead of looking down at the compass and trying to walk in the direction of the needle, we would look for a landmark ahead on that bearing, walk to it, re-shoot the bearing and find another landmark along it, etc... and it tends to be a little more accurate over distance, and it's a lot easier...and you won't bump your head on a low hanging branch because you have your head down looking at the compass! Congrats on first video !
It’s nice that your pins are easily visible, protruding out of the ground. Mine are all buried. Only found one with a shovel so far.
I'm a licensed surveyor and there are a few things I wanted to comment on regarding the video. First and foremost I think it's great that you took some initiative to find your pins and I wish more landowners did this. Many times they are buried though and it's not quite as easy as walking right up to them as you did here, but good job none-the-less.
1.) You said you bought the property within the last few years, and had a survey done as part of that process. I think that is fantastic as it lets you, as the buyer, know exactly what you're buying. Something that I noticed that seemed odd to me is that the rebar marking your corners didn't have plastic caps on them. Even if the rebar was not set by the company that did your survey I find it strange that the surveyor in charge of your project did not put his caps on the bars. They did appear to be flagged up though which is good.
2.) The survey you referenced used astronomic north (determined by solar observation according to the survey) as its basis of bearing but you used a compass (which reads magnetic north) to retrace the line. I think you got a little bit lucky here that the line you walked is short enough and/or the magnetic declination in your area is close enough to zero that you were able to find the monument you were looking for.
3.) This is more a tip for anyone looking to do something similar. You can grab a compass and start walking and hope to just spot the monument sticking up like it is here, but what do you do if it's obscured by dirt or brush? I would suggest measuring your pace so you can count how far you've walked from your starting pin. As a 5'9" male I go just about 5 feet exactly in 2 steps, but it will vary for everyone. Anyway, once you know your pace you can start at a found pin and pace towards the next pin using your compass and the distance shown on the survey. When you hit the proper distance you can stop and look around even if nothing is immediately visible.
Anyway, cool video; keep up the good work!
As a now 'retired' surveyor, I concur on all counts! This landowner does something that most in a more urban area wouldn't think to do; IE find his own corners. I too noticed that the 'original' survey was based on an astronomic observation. Most consumers wouldn't recognize or comprehend what that is. You also mentioned his 'luck' by using a compass not declinated to 'True North', but to Magnetic. I'm not so sure I saw him 'declinate' anything, rather that he drew a line from his 'N' symbol on the description. He also exhibited a use of a 'protracter'.. Anyhow, he was lucky on 'either count'. Fence lines can be a 'touchy' subject/project and nobody wants to put one up to be told to 'move it'... Some states are fairly 'liberal' when it comes to this subject, but that doesn't mean the next property owner abutting the 'fence line' is going to think the same! I think he used good judgement, with that very issue in mind. I've never heard of a recognized PLS from any state that wouldn't insist on a cap on the pin. Most places I've worked had the name of the firm on the cap.. Usually that would match that name found on the most current deed/description.
@@surveyore7 My first thought when I saw him using a compass was whether he was going to adjust for the deviation of magnetic from true North. In a military setting this kind of oversight can put you in a minefield or under your own side's munitions.
I don't think an uncapped rebar tag to the actual pin is unusual, and possibly not even desirable. That rebar is not the official marker, since it is too trivial to move.
I watched 3 similar videos and yours stimulated the best comments, by far. Those comments make your video a great source for understanding the complexity of this topic . . . so in my humble opinion, you did a GREAT service. Thanks for posting it!
Thanks for taking the mystery out of it. One thing they taught in Boy Scouts was to "sight" along your line before you start walking to identify a landmark that is on your line of march. Walk to that landmark and then repeat the process on the opposite side of it. This method does not require you to keep your eyes glued to the compass, with the associated risk of walking into, well, landmarks...
True, but when walking through woods your landmarks are just about limited to a tree that is only 16 feet away. Your point, however, is well taken.
Thank you for putting this up - despite the fact that "the professionals" are giving you crap. It isn't rocket science, and you did a good job connecting the dots!
So professional land surveyors give you crap. Sounds like you've been involved in a property line dispute.
Thank you so much for this video! This method worked for my husband and I! We had to create a fence line between two markers that were 580’ apart in the woods. I was concerned that our survey drawing wasn’t very accurate, but we figured out the angle, set our compass and followed it through the woods and found that second marker. Thanks so much, again!
Deano, thanks so much for all your great input and correction. As mentioned in other posts, the intent of this is not to establish a boundary, but to find pins that professional surveyors have already set. In our case those pins were some 600 feet into the woods, and this method helped us find it perfectly. Hopefully it will help others in that regard as well. Cheers.
In Jesus Mighty Name I say, trust in Jesus Christ, only He can forgive and save you Amen and Amen
One point about using your compass that I don't recall hearing you mention; There is a difference between "Magnetic" north and "True" north. Magnetic north changes, and you need to know, based on the date and location, what the declination (offset) is from true north. For example, where I am today, the declination is 9 degrees west. That means that if I try to use the compass to walk north (0 degrees), then you'll actually end up farther west of your intended path... in my example, 9 degrees is about 15.6' west and 1.2' south for every 100' you walk. That certainly adds up over distance! You must correct for magnetic declination on your compass before you can accurately walk a path using a compass.
This could be a very important point. In some areas declination varies and can be more than 9 degrees. The compass needs to be set to adjust for this in order for this technique to work. This can be found in many places on the internet. If you don't do this, you could be out in the woods a long way from the actual corner.
The survey(s) your working from should always indicate the magnetic declination used for calculations at the time the survey was performed.
Magnetic declination can become more of an issue with regards to time and older surveys. Since the magnetic declination is not only different depending on your location, it drifts around over time. Magnetic north is always wiggling around.
If your working off a survey that’s 10 years old it should have very little practical effect with regards to running the compass. It will be close enough.
The missing tool in helping find property corners is something to measure distance. A line segment consist of two points. Those points are related to each other by a directional bearing AND a distance. Compass, tape, metal detector, and property surveys is the checklist.
@@Jiwuwawanco I'm not sure how surveys are done in your area, but here, the bearings are NOT based on a magnetic compass. We use Astronomic Bearings that are measured angles from a known meridian.
Our surveys do not mention declination because we aren't using magnetic references. Therefore, if you are using a compass as a poor-man's theodolite, then really, what you are doing is correcting the compass's north direction as an approximation of the "north" used in the survey, then using it to find the marked angle. Using a compass is quite approximate and every error in measurement or correction gets larger over distance.
(Disclaimer: I'm not a surveyor, and my knowledge on the subject is very limited other than what I've looked into on my own surveys.)
@@jordanharkness
Your correct with regards to modern surveys done with modern equipment.
I’ve worked with plenty of older surveys most with magnetic declination noted at the time of the survey. That’s my reference.
I’m a forester, and I work with a magnetic compass to find property lines and corners, very similar to how the video was showing. So for my purposes magnetic declination is a consideration, but typically a very minor one when it comes to actually finding pins and corners. Note that context matters.
The old surveys I have seen were always drawn with true north as the reference. The magnetic declination at the time is noted as it was necessary to do any accurate repeat survey. This was often via showing Magnetic North as well on the survey.
If you ever study land navigation the first thing you learn about is North, True North and Grid North. The earth's magnetic poles are changing constantly. From year to year they change by a slight bit. So, you must, depending on what part of the world you are in either add or subtract the grid magnetic declination to convert your azimuth from grid to magnetic north. Otherwise you'll be using the wrong compass numbers if you don't factor in the amount the poles shifted from the time that map you're using to plot off of.
A big amen to this!
You are wise to consider remaking this video. Waaaaayyyyy too much risk here. Remember it doesn't hurt to learn the lingo, the rules about compass handling, and more. If you don't want to go all out getting a surveyor, then find a forester who cruises timber. They deal with property lines all the time -- to, as you said, avoid cutting the neighbor's trees.
Your caution and precision is commendable. I've experienced neighbors who encroach intentionally with fences, stealing land that doesn't belong to them. You obviously are a good neighbor.
Thank you
Completely understood. I did a poor job of covering this in the video (it was my first one) but the point was only to find a set pin which was already set by a professional surveyor. The darn thing was just so far back in the woods that it was impossible to find by wandering around. Once the points are found a line would be pulled to find the correct property line. Even with that we plan to be cautious and put our fence 5' on to our property. Thank you for watching and commenting!
I sit corrected . ;-)
What if there is no pin found..
@@heraldandres2008 Assuming you navigate to the correct location for it, then either it wasn't there or it's been moved.
A lot of work to go through to build a fence for a fox to climb over before enjoying a duck dinner but thanks for the video.
Michael Karpovage here, author of the Tununda Mysteries. You look awfully familiar as a Traveling Man of the Craft. Was looking for survey tips and came across your video. Very helpful.
You are Fortunate to have such "thick" woods. My acreage in Maine is so Thick you cannot see 15 feet forward or back!
Also in my area there is a 17 degree magnetic declination from True North! That detail Must be taken into account or one will either be lost or involved in a range war.
On Older properties you may find "historical artifacts" such as blaze cuts or barbed wire remnants in larger trees, although these may not be "exact" to your deeded property.
Good method in general. Thanks.
Great informative video. People change and there is always the chance of getting a Californian moving in next to you.
For all the people going nuts about declination, its 2 degrees for Toomsuba, MS, where this farm is located and, in any case, the owner isn't conducting a survey he's merely trying to find existing survey pegs in bush land so the close-enough method he employs here is perfectly fine as evidenced by the fact that he found what he was looking for. 👍
And, yet, with the GLOBAL reach of the internet, others might not be so lucky. Coastal US areas can be 11 deg or more
I would recommend calling your surveyor and asking them how much they would want to remark the boundary lines of the existing survey.
It starts around $800
800$ or….free? Hmmmmmm
Yep I called to get one to my existing survey they told me it’s a grand! I’m like this is highway robbery just to find the stakes in the ground!!
There is a big difference between an official survey, which is what you all are talking about and simple pin location. The latter is far less expensive. @@karakidder1545
A great point - one I actually meant to point out in the video and forgot about while filming. It works "good enough" for me, being at only a 1 degree variance from true to magnetic north. Again, just trying to get within eye-shot of the pins, not use the compass and protractor to determine the legal location of where a pin should be. Thanks!
J&J Acres - To throw another curveball at this.... What if the basis of bearing used in the survey was on an assumed coordinate system and not based of geodetic north?
There are so many technical issues with this video I couldn't finish it.
It would have to be noted by the PLS who signed it. Additionally, each line appears to have a "field" versus "deed" call out for the bearing and distance. In order to compute that you would need to know the original surveyor's "assumed" coordinate system. The PLS obviously surveyed according to the legal description, not an assumed coordinate system that would never come into play in a rural setting such as this one.
The video image was too fuzzy to read the plot description, so I couldn't tell. Don't such plots show the bearing and distances for each line? If so, then no calculation of bearing is needed - except for the variance offset if not corrected in the compass. @@lancebrown4309
good point on putting a tree (visual cue) or corner post off-center of property corner....avoid future head aches. BTW Good Job!
I do not know how it is done everywhere. Here they use the wooden stakes next to the metal pins, and attach the two with the surveyor tape. It is supposed to help you find the metal pin easier. Thank you for watching!
My husband and I have been mystified by our compass. Thank-you for explaining. We need to put a fence on our property too.
Like elsewhere stated best to leave legal boundaries to professionals . If like in this video you are looking for the previously installed markers then this a decent video . Elsewhere on CZcams you can find video on how to use a survey compass . This will take the mystery out of it .
Very helpful video! Our property is simple with just 1 acre and no trees in the way. Your method helped us find all four pins, we used masonry line and tied from pin to pin and knew exactly where our property lines were from this. And also decided to build a bit away from the property line allowing for the cement footings thanks to your advice (and to allow for fence maintenance). Now we have a nice straight fence too since we kept the masonry line in place. So sad to read some of the naysayers who just didn't listen to your entire video. Seriously could not find anything wrong with your video. OH! And we homeschool, so it was a fantastic lesson for showing our kids "real world" math. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this!.
Thank you so much for the kind and encouraging words and for letting me know you were able to put this into practice successfully. As a few polite commentators had mentioned you do need those corners to be professionally surveyed, but so long as that is already in place a simple compass can help you locate those pins, just like you did. Thank you again :-) We homeschool too, so good on ya!
This was very helpful. Thank you. I am hoping you have a video on how you did a fence on all that property.
Thanks for watching! I don't think it was a neighbors dog, as we went around asking our neighbors if they were having problems - and in fact those that kept chickens had also seen the fox. Another person had suggested possibly a coyote with a red coat, but the stature and white tip on the tail really gave it away.
Please Please people do not put up a fence based on this guy's advise!!!!
That is one heck of a question! I am certainly not an expert, or trained in any surveying - however, I would suggest you start with your local Tax Assessor's office. They should have a good legal description of your property, one that references a USGS section corner to one of your pins, then around your property line until it comes back to the original reference. You can then take that to a professional surveyor who can re-set the washed-out pins. Thanks for watching!
1. I may be mistaken, but I believe in Michigan, USA a "mini" survey which is done when property is purchased, cannot be relied upon to locate property lines accurately. It is ONLY to certify that any buildings are located wholely upon the property. So, to install a fence, have a surveyor do a survey that is intended for fencing purposes (more accurate).
2. If any construction/grading/excavation has been done near pins, the pins may have been "bumped", damaged or deleted.
3. You should place your fence (unsure if this means the poles, the footings, or the fencing material itself) as close to the boundary line as possible (on your side) because any property located outside of your fence can be claimed by the adjacent property owner as his. There may be a time limit on this. Not sure what is the law when you have multiple fences, say 5-10 feet apart to use as a cattle run or driveway or a dog run. And IF you plant bushes or trees outside of your structural fence, the bushes might possibly be legally considered your property line thus preventing the neighbor from taking possession of property up to your fence line (lawyer's opinion needed).
Just got a quote from a surveyor to find my property lines (3 acres) for $1200! Even if I have to buy a metal detector to find buried pins (house built in 1957) and a compass I am much more confident in my ability to scope it out myself after your video - thanks from Pennsylvania.
As a licensed land surveyor I will just say $1200 is... a hell of a lot less than I would do a boundary survey for. You may also not realize this but that price includes all materials so if one or more of your corners monuments is not found the surveyor will set a new one, and record their survey at the county assessor's office (assuming you live in a state where recording surveys is mandatory).
Our 5 acres have been surveyed and recorded with the town. Surveyor wanted $5400 to stake one side of the property (7 stakes). And they will not stake it if they don't own the records of the surveyor who did the original survey, otherwise, they have to do a complete survey. Welcome to New York.
But how much would you charge to do a pin location - no survey needed or desired? There would not be any survey to record. @@isustudent514
Thanks so much for making this video. I used this simple method to locate pins from a survey performed 10 years ago. Worked like a charm. Don't listen to these haters, they are all prob surveyors trying to dissuade folks from doing it this way and instead, and giving them a very expensive call.
Thank you so much for the positive feedback. A few people who were kind with their words did correctly point out some updates I should make to this video. That said, I am very happy that it worked for you!
He has been advised how to skip hiring a surveyor, if he wishes. An informal line that makes sense will do the job here. Vocabulary here are Timber Cruiser, Ranger type compass, Staff compass.
As a surveyor our MANDATE is to protect the public. That is the MAIN reason we are licensed and regulated. By advising to not put up a fence with this method we are trying to save a lot of issues between the two parties involved. The land owner building the fence and his neighbor who could be harmed by this action. The court case that follows and the hatred each has for each other after one looses and one wins. Finding your corners is one thing. Building a fence in a blind woods somewhere between those two corners without the proper equipment or techniques is reckless and will end in an argument most of the time. Which is cheaper? A couple thousand dollars for a survey to do it right or 20 to 30 thousand or more for each side to fight their case in court?
not haters, just know more trig than he does.
Josh_Outdoors Um surveyors are the most unpaid professionals out there.
Young Man looks a lot like I did in my younger year's
right down to the hairline
and Heavy Set. That's a good lesson for the rest of us from a Intelligent young Man. Thanks!
Thank you
Thank you for watching and commenting. I am certainly not suggesting that this would "get around" having your property properly surveyed. Obviously mine was, I was just having a problem finding a few of the pins in the middle of the woods. By using this simple method I was able to find those pins. No matter how great the tape is, there are still trees in the way - which is just to say at least I have a respectable idea of which trees I need to have removed before proceeding. Thank you again!
The information provided in the video provided me with the ability to find a pin that had already been professionally surveyed, but that I could not find simply by walking the property. There is nothing in the video that claims to be a replacement for professional surveying. Just a way to find the pin that the professionals have already set.
Frank I could not ever see a Professional Land Surveyor telling you this. I have heard the recommendation made before if the survey was rather recent and just needed to be updated. In this instance many RPL's will do this as a way of saving you money. It is more of a favor to you. Although if you did not trust the work of the other Surveyor, then most RPL's will do you another survey.
The point of the video is to find the pins already laid down by a professional surveyor. Hence the survey being used in the video.
Nice video. A couple of notes from a surveyor who has been doing this for over 33 years.
1. Find out the difference between a bearing and an azimuth. What you were using were azimuths not bearings.
Azimuth is how many degrees clockwise from north is your direction. A bearing takes the circle and breaks it up into quadrants. The quadrants are 1-North East 2-South East 3-South West 4-North West. The main difference is that bearings can never be greater than 90 degrees. Azimuths start at north and read clockwise from 0 degrees to 360 degrees.
2. A compass is a device that relies on the magnetic pull of the earth. It is easily swayed by other objects that can illicit a magnetic affect such as metallic objects like your belt buckle. The needle of the compass will literally get pulled off course by other metallic objects like the zipper on your coat or an object your are holding in your hand that is magnetic or metallic. I noticed in the video that you placed your compass down on the corrugated metal of your shed when you were setting your azimuth in the second part of the video. That metal is very likely affecting the compass needle and therefore the azimuth that you set will be affected by the influence of the metal on the compass needle.
3. As you navigate along a line with a compass you can easily sway off course. A compass might be a good device to get you out of the woods and to the nearest road if you are lost. But for finer navigation along a property line the compass is very inadequate. It's fine for finding your pins but not recommended for establishing a line for placing a fence.
4. As someone else mentioned in one of the threads, it is not advisable to put your fence in any other place other than exactly on your property line. The reason being (which was stated here by others) is Adverse Possession. Some one else can eventually lay claim to the land that you are not occupying and eventually gain right over that land. This is probably one time where you want to drop the DIY surveying with your compass and hire a surveyor to give you precise points along the line that you follow to install your fence.
5. Good job finding your pins with a survey map and a compass. This works great if the pin is well marked with a stake or some surveyors ribbon. But a lot of the times especially after a lot of time has passed since the survey, the pins are often buried under leaf litter or dirt. Not always that easy to find. That is where surveyors can be of help.
Thank you for your insights.
As was mentioned a few times here is the True North/Magnetic North, and the huge difference this can create. I know as a commercial fisherman, using a compass, for years, and then later on dealing with GPS, Plotters, and other electronic navigational tools the difference is great in this area, in the NE, at roughly12 degrees.
But everyone must remember if your calculations are off by even 1 degree, in a longer run, it could put you off line by 20-30 ft over the course of even a 100-200 foot run. Here I have dealt with surveys before, and some will leave the pins up out of ground a foot, others put to ground level, also here we have discs on the top, made of lead/zinc(not sure exactly) which are easier to locate with metal detector.
But there is nothing more aggravating than trying to find a property marker, that should be there, and cannot be found.
Could we see an updated video of your new fence and all the trees you were going to clear out? Curious to know how did your own layout work out with the neighbor's? Also hoping that you will rename the video to "how to find a Land Surveyor's boundary corner monument". Thanks.
I appreciate what you are doing. But please keep in mind a survey could be oriented to true north, grid north, magnetic north, or even deed north. Magnetic north is probably the lest common because of GPS. Also magnetic north changes every year. I've seen many charts that show as much as a 20 degree spread. A compass works great to find property corners. They will get you close but I would never build a fence by one. Unless you can pull a string. Bearing is on plat, covert it to azmuith.
You are very welcome. I hope it helps. Just so you know, this was our first video - there are lots of other ones out there - come check them out :)
Great video , this is a basic for a civil engineer, if you call you survey company they can locate the pins foy you of course you have to pay for that, not cheap.
Did you take in consideration for declination before plotting?
I am glad the both of you found it helpful. This was my very first video, and I have been very tempted to re-do it. If you have any questions, please let me know!
5' also allows you maintance but on the no trespassing signs or property signs state that you own and claim the extra 5 feet so your neighbor over time can't claim the property as his by Adverse possession.
A lot has changed since 2012, and now you can find all your property information by going to the county GIS site of your state where you can then locate your property and check coordinates of all your corners. I used an app named 'My GPS Location' that i got off my Android 'Play Store' after getting the coordinated from the county. You can then activate your app and walk in the general vicinity of each coordinate and the property marker pins are reasonably close by, though more than likely buried. I was just curious as to where my property lines were.
Do not adjust your compass against the metallic roof edge like you did at the shed. Those galvanized roof sheets are probably made out of steel.
Laud Haf Murcy, this was recommended, WELL, not a bad clip, I UNDERSTOOD your reasoning, and I learned MUCH from the pro's chiming in, I'm over 60 and my folks home place had boundary issues with neighbors, after ALL parties died I had it resurveyed and paid extra to have the N & S borders marked every 40 or 50 ft. to my surprise we gained about 5 ft on the N, and the old pasture fence that that neighbor put in wandered all into our space, it's worth it to get the pros to do such for peace of mind & to head off POTENTIAL issues in the future, that may not involve you but your heirs.
I noticed the Lat/Lon positions on your map. With GPS units, you can get within about 15' radius of the survey pin. With a metal detector, you can find it. But without those tools, your method is probably all that a landowner has. I didn't know about those pins until a few years ago when I had my property surveyed. Found that my neighbor built his fence 18" inside my property line. Had to file a complaint with the city. It is EXTREMELY important to have your property surveyed when you buy it. You could find that the previous owner or the builder didn't do their job and you'd be paying taxes on land you have no access to due to a fence being built too far inside your property line.
If you look real close at the survey you can see a note about an old trailer that is 2 feet over our properly line. Thankfully, we have good neighbors.
I recently bought a VERY cheap residential lot in central Florida. Kinda strange coincidence on how i found the lot.. i had broken down late at night and decided to drive off to the side of the road and go to sleep. when i woke i was exploring some unpaved street and wooded lots with no houses . I looked it up and found that some were for sale for a very long time. I called the county and researched local zoning and building codes and made an offer i thought the seller would never accept and but he did. The idea i have is an offgrid lot with no permanent dwelling - secure, fenced and private with shallow water source and solar. Taxes are almost nothing, but to put a fence they told me a i needed a survey. They told me they have no building codes for fences and that almost any fence will be accepted. However... am looking at google earth images and see many of my neighbors have fences that were never permitted. You can't tell from street level , but they also have illegal dwellings and RVs and building containers on their lots. I asked the county about if there was any plan to pave the platted streets and they said there was not enough development to justify and that this part of town is un-maintainned and unmonitored (meaning no mail, no garbage, no 911 service). I'm not interested in City Power, but the local power company quoted me 8k to put a post on the lot. I know all this sound scary, but trust me when i tell you the price and taxes are STILL right and some of this is actually good news if the goal is to use it off grid . I plan to mark my corners using the counties GIS GPS coordinates and do some manual land clearing, site planning and build a simple hidden fence to keep people and predators out. I have no immediate neighbors and may never have any. I was there a few days and did not see a single car pass in front of the lot. Should i bother getting a survey and submitting a permit to fence it with temporary u-post and wire mesh? the way i figure this is only going to INCREASE MY VALUE AND PROPERTY TAXES right? . The county clearly does not care about this area as they don't service it and nobody is going to report me if they can't see beyond a bunch of trees i have in the front of the lot. The other question is given in Florida, what's the TYPICAL FINE and process if they see that i built a fence WITHOUT PERMITS? Again, it's a very simple metal T-post and wire mesh fence in the back of the property - at most about a $400 investment. I understand the risk of not having neighbors .. like theft and worse. Also I do see coyote tracks on the lot.
A few comments: 1) All states have specific laws concerning property lines and official monument. 2) CZcams iewers be careful of advice regarding land law. 3) what this youtube creater is calling a bearing in this video, is actually an Azimuth. 4) Distance usually has more weight than an angle or bearing. 5) "North" has a variety of definitions, especially with the advent of GPS. 6) Best advice: when it concerns legal property lines; Call a professional.
Kisses xoxox, Mwah😚😚! 5 years later, your Video is still a GREAT EDUCATIONAL TOOL made for people just like me "Living on their Land", Who don't know WTH they are doing, or how to do it!
I bought my 20 acre rectangle (660x1320') in my late 40's, when I "could do anything"! Now, at age 64 & retired here, I am overwhelmed at times learning about just The Basics that need to be taken into consideration before actually building structures. (Envisioning a Village of Year Round Platformed Tents, about 12 total, for vacationers and a few full time Renters who may trade labor in exchange for 'housing' ).
This property-lining has been near the top of my "Things to Do First" list since I moved up to my land last year.
I had figured out the twine and have found the markers for "Side 1", the western boundary, have bought some Flag Pins, but couldn't see HOW to stay relatively accurate on course from my SW to the NW marker without literally crawling through cactus, creosote and mesquite: all with thorns that would probably be 'the death of me'; as I am on anticoagulant therapy for a chronic medical condition.
USE A COMPASS!!! Of Course!!! Never would have thought of that!
As I tend to be one of those intellectual Genius types who can't tie their own shoes when it comes to getting things done easily, efficiently and practically ! I can overthink and complicate THE H out of anything!
It's a beautiful day in my neighborhood of a few far away neighbors, so I think I'll get right out there with my Deerskin Leather gloves, Sun Protector Work Hat, 1,000' of Orange Poly Twine on a spool, my Bright Lime Green Flags, and, MY COMPASS, (I happen to have one Just Like Yours on hand, YIPPEE!) and...Get 'er Done 😁!
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You J&J.
Wow, thank you for the super kind words and for sharing your story - lovely! Good luck with your project and I hope everything turns out lovely!
Thank you Firpo. This was our very first video - please feel free to check out some of the more recent additions :-)
Good video. We have complete surveys of our property about 5 years ago. We have a small corner along a creek. And a neighbor has about a 50' square at that point . Mysteriously the pins gone. We measured it out put some posts there and the next day the neighbor pulled the posts out . Because it's to close to there well pump on the creek. Lol. There on the property line and want me to move my post to give them room. But we are fencing off area for pasture and to keep there free range livestock off our land. It can be interesting.
More than likely, the pins were not pulled, just the rebar markers that protrude above the ground to make close determinations easier. The actual pins are usually buried a foot or so underground.
As long as the well pump or any other structure does not overlap onto your property, it does not matter how close your fence may be.
Be careful, often times a survey company will find enough monuments/landmarks so as to calculate and set any that are missing. They fully intend to go back and set the ones they did not find but just never get around to sending a crew back out for that 30 minute job. The plat gets drawn up and filed as " SET 5/8" IR " yet it was never set. Surveyors can say that a disgruntled neighbor pull it up or that squirrels pole vault with 18" iron rods , it doesn't really matter cause it is impossible to prove that they never came back to set the missing points.
Another thing, don't go to seed over a few tenths or inches. Depending on what part of the country you are in, no two surveyors would calculate and be able to set the same point in exactly the same place. On my city property I expect things to be within .05 of a foot, on my city property yet I would accept .35 of a foot on my other property. when old original deed calls were off the eye balled center of a 12 inch oak tree that is now 48 inches and the other call was center line of a 60 foot creek then you have to use some common sense. They were measuring with steel tapes sometimes not even using plumb bobs back in those days.
Another thing, don't use a surveyor that simply got his license by having an engineering degree, you will most likely not get good land surveying practices in those cases.
I did a lot of work for land surveyors in Texas but had to get into other work so as to make enough to feed my family. I am 70; things have changed a lot since 1967. One of my sons now surveys with GPS and robots and drones and makes pretty good money.
I agree on the accuracy thing of surveys. My neighbor just had a recent one done, and came to us saying the old 75 year old survey was wrong, and he had 2 acres less, and we had 2 acres more according to the new survey using modern equipment. His old property line was 10' over on our side, but for quite a run..... land is now $110,000 per acre here, so that's almost 1/4 million dollars more our land is worth now. This affects title, selling, refinancing, taxes, etc......... I'm a real estate appraiser and a REALTOR, and believe in always getting a recent survey, in addition to comparing it to previous ones. A survey is a fraction of the cost of trying to correct any of those issues.
If a surveyor is not setting pins then you need to report them to the state board so they are punished and/or license is revoked. Also, you are paying for pins to be set so you need to talk to your surveyor to find out exactly when they will be set, and then go look at them to make sure they are in place. If the surveyor ignores this request then you need to report them to the board as well. These are state requirements so you don't need to be rude the surveyor about it, because if they want to stay in business they'll do it. And this is coming from a licensed surveyor.
I hope you realy didn't mean to give up the use of five feet of your property? That was realy supposed to be five inches right.
Also it sounded like you were mixing true north bearings with magnetic north bearings. Depeding on your location the difference may be small to very great. If you are dealing with property lines any diffrence is huge prpblem. Maps are generaly true north. The ground is where ever magnetic north is today. Magnetic north slowly shifts over years. The difference is declination east or west. If your working from a map you need to know the adjustment or new lines and points.will be in the wtong places. It is often noted on the map at the time the map was made.
He mentioned he was going to plant a hedge between the new fence and property line. 5 feet might be a tad generous but it will allow plenty of room for the hedge to grow and not intrude on the adjacent parcel.
You can find survey pins all day long, they are required to be ferrous to be able to locate them. The problem is knowing which pin is the right one to use. And yes I am a land surveyor.
Thankfully in our rural area there are not a half dozen pins within feet of another like one might find in a suburb - but your point is taken - you need to be sure the pin you think you found IS indeed that pin.
And yet I find stainless steel rods, granite posts, "BIG OAK" etc., or even better
, nothing at all because the surveyor didn't want to haul a 6x6 concrete post and bury it. I'm a septic designer and use a total station to find those buried and non-existent "ferrous pins" lol.
Any tips for finding irons/pins near steel fence posts and buried barbed wire? I find metal detectors practically useless under those conditions.
@@noahbthesavagegardener5146 in that case a surveyor would use either GPS or traverse with a total station and find several property corners so they could pin point the correct one with measurements from the deed. Also a surveyor here.
@@JandjacresNet - I have also worked on a survey crew and this is common even in rural areas. Farmers and landowners disputing property lines would often simply set a new property corner and declare it the corner after driving the real corner well below grade(which they typically are anyway). I've located property corners before where there will be 9 pipes, pins and/or similar markers driven into the ground within 10 feet of each other.
I appreciate your time and efforts!!!
you did good although I wish you hadn't set the compass on that roofing tin to get an azimuth. metal will draw your compass off several degrees.
stonewall ray, that is an excellent point. Thank you for mentioning that.
your welcome
My challenge is different
The document says 5/8" x 3' pins are put on all four corners
But I found only two of them, wooden, with surveyer tape on top!
The other two corners dont have any. Possibility one - it was gone. It was put 35 years ago.
Possibility two, the metal pin is buried. In any case I need to find them so that I could fence the property.
I found from a trick to find the buried pins using compass... Gotta try it.
THANKS A BUNCH FOR THE VIDEO
As stated by others you are trying to Get azimuth not bearings.
Your survey map already has bearings and distances posted on each boundary line.
The surveyors who did your first survey will come back to mark your lines for you and will stand by them (legally and professionally). They will charge you something to do so but (IMO) not as much as you seem to think. Just Tell them you only need one line marked for fencing along that one line. It will cost less than moving a fence you built by trying to save a few dollars by doing your own boundary line markings. And they will not cut down a single tree to stake your lines for you. And you will not have to pay to move a fence built incorrectly. BTW: I am a registered professional land surveyor in my state.
PS: if your survey is fairly recent, the surveyor should be willing to come out to “walk the bounds” or show you the exact pins they used (found or set by them) for your boundary corners.
If however it had been years then They will no doubt require a fee to send out a crew to walk your boundaries with you.
did you take into consideration magnetic deliniation from true north when determining your bearing
There is a difference between True North and Magnetic North and is called declination.
Don't forget about the magnetic north correction adjustment. It changes every year.
Thanks for the video. I've been looking for a simple way to locate my pins. And I'm sure this is going to help.
Good luck!
Good luck!
J&J Acres ,thanks for your response to my comment! It will be a great advantage to me. Have a great day. And a warm winter.
Hi J&J Acres, My first suggestion would be to use a Licensed Land Surveyor to mark your boundary. Please don't state that a surveyor's tape stretches. A cheap fiberglass tape does stretch, however, surveyors use a calibrated steel tape and calculate for temperature, sag and slope. If you haven't guessed yet I am a Land Surveyor. We strive to protect our profession.Your current neighbor may agree with your fence location but a local municipality may also have something to say about it. Good luck.
I like using calculated points to find hard to find irons or distance to distance to be sure that is your property irons
Dude you just saved my life lol!!!! Thanks man!!!
Like to see the final fence as well thanks as I am going through the process of finding my line
I knew Boy Scout orienteering would come in handy someday.
You can visit a website called "Caltopo.com" and find your property by address then locate the pins from one point to the other and get the GPS Coordinates and enter them in a Handheld GPS that can register and store waypoints. Then all you'll need to do is click it on when you are at a known waypoint/Property marker and it will guide you perfectly right on the line to the other waypoint marker at the other end. I Saved myself $9,000 doing this myself instead of paying a surveyor. You can also plot a map on that website by drawing lines from point to point then print or store the info.
The fact is I did this before the video. After having found the pin I thought "I should film that". I was debating about starting up a YT channel at the time. The first time I drug a tape behind me. A 100' one. When I hit the 100', I marked where I was, wound it back up, and went again. I know, not great, but it worked. As for the smartphone - beats me, never tried it. Thanks for watching!
Great video, I want to fence; do I just stretch a line from one end to the other. The engineer found the pins and determined the boundary. Any suggestions. Thanks
Hello. Not sure if I missed it, but did you figure for declination? In my area it is 15 degrees.
Declination is one thing I failed to mention. My declination is barely 1 degree, which is why I easily forgot to mention it in the video. This is a video I really need to re-shoot - as it was my first video and it leaves a lot to be desired.
It AVERAGES 15° in NE California where I am too. But which way? Here it is 15° EAST. But he needs to know about annual variation, declination, local attraction, back sights, and more. He should bring in a forester with at least a Ranger-type compass. A staff compass would be better! And for heaven's sake that plastic "ribbon" is called FLAGGING!!
ludwigvanification: I thank you for the reply. Yes I am named after a tree. In forestry we do a lot with trees, ya know. And it involves a lot of compass work. That is the connection, and why I spoke up. My intent was kindness and assistance. I'm glad the intended target was found. That's one. We did not deal in slope. That's 2. Variation/declination works to your left or right. It is good to know which. In a mile the wrong declination setting will land you 92+ feet off to one side or the other. Local attraction was mentioned because the compass at one point was placed much too close to a lot of steel. Corrugated roofing as I recall. This is asking for a big goof in compass work. Have you seen a ships' compass in its binnacle with 2 big iron balls on either side? This is to compensate for all that steel the ship is made of. It is a local attraction compensating device. The idea being, too much ferrous metal near a compass is a recognized hazard to the work. Thankfully they discovered this system long ago, and we can navigate with certainty. I don't remember knowing where you are located. But now that I know your average declination I can look on an isogonic map of North America and estimate that you are in or near certain parts of the South or Midwest. So that's one less burden for you. Here in the northern Sierra Nevada mountains it varies between 13 and 18 degrees depending on location and annual swing. So you see that it is of frequent concern to us. We need to find the area where we are sent to work, and to stay within mapped boundaries that were assigned to us. These things require good compass work. Last thing, I see that a lot of CZcams guys should not practice or experiment in front of the camera. They should practice first, work out the narration, and be prepared in advance. If you want to share something then you want to be prepared. Some guys are relying on you.
Flagging or ribbon, Michael.
For a small survey, it is meaningless.
To get your bearing you could’ve also subtracted 54° from west which is 270° to give you 216.
Otherwise a very informative video thank you
Well done. Clearly articulated without extraneous distractions. BTW are you an educator by trade?
Thank for the tutorial sir. How do you determine the North bearing of a property line? The one I have does not show NESW but it does show bearings such as 278 deg 15min and 633.3 (I guess this must be the distance in feet from one boundary stone to another pin on the property line.
all you have to do is use your starting point, align your map outside to the property and take an azmith of each point from your starting point. your survayor's map should have linear distances already marked off. Then go to your start point and shoot your readings.!!
Respect for trying to troll land surveyors. So obviously wrong but just enough truth to make people think your real. Well done, I needed that laugh. I gotta show the guys at work this. well done.
This is one of those videos that could use a bit more editing and maybe more of the map studies from point to point. I would suggest to someone wanting to learn the basics of compass use is to contact their local ROTC or military base near them and give some Sargent $50 to walk you through it. Even taking a course offered at most colleges with an ROTC study... take "Orienteering" (which is actually an Olympic Sport !!) which is considered a P.E. requirement at most schools. You can get a P.E. grade point while learning mapping and compass. Learn how to read a map is No. 1. Learning the compass is the tool for reading a map.
I agree about the video resculptit. It was my very first CZcams video and the editing and explanation of the material presented is represented by that. Having spoken privately to a few people who are more well versed than I in surveying, and who were well mannered, I have been planning a better video. It is something I need to do as soon as I can.
You can also go visit your local Boy Scouts to learn more about the use of a compass. Save your $50 and if you are happy with what you learned buy some popcorn showing your support.
Thorough! Well done.
This was great info. Looking to do exactly what y’all described so well. Did you work out your relationship with surveyor’s tape?
The property description on your deed and your survey already has compass headings from pin to pin. Why play around with protractors?
Hey. He is learning.
ronald smith Those aren't compass headings. A a quadrant bearing is different. A compass duplicating that bearing will only be "ish"
Ichabod Minor it would get him about the same because he's not accounting for mag north
In addition to all these comments, what is the meridian of the north arrow based on? If it's an assumed meridian, which many local surveys are based, you're heading for a boundary line dispute.
There is a HUGE difference between grid north (paper), magnetic north, and true north. You cannot just use grid north in order to determine a magnetic north without ever using the DC. This process may get you close but it is far from how it should be done hence the reason there is a declination diagram on your map which identifies the difference between the three months. Most military folks know this as they are taught this when conducting land navigation. I would recommend you look this up to assist you in more accurately meeting your intent.
Declination depends on where you are on earth. It's not always a HUGE difference.
@@James_Bowie It is very apparent you have never conducted any land navigation greater than the distance covered in your yard.
Oh my good lord! Yes this really happened! Thank you for a great laugh, I truly enjoyed this video! A protractor!! The man used a protractor to establish an azimuth from a printed piece of paper!! There were bearings on the survey!! Calc those brother!
Thanks J & J. I appreciate your time and effort.
My pleasure
setting your compass on the metal shed to set your barings????
There are some problems with your method. It is interesting that the surveyor protection society did not bother to help you with this but I am sympathetic. Whenever we get involved in home improvement projects we find that contractors of all types want to charge rates that are a very high percentage of the ultimate value of the project and if they were all hired for the prices they ask, the project would be uneconomic.
Now to your survey. Bearings on an exisiting survey are not necessarily magnetic or true north. In fact it would be silly to reference a survey to magnetic north as it changes over time. Surveys are usually referenced to something called "apparent north." Without getting into an explanation of that, what you need to get a fairly accurate layout of your lot lines from an exisiting survey of your land, with a compass and tape, is to fine two adjoining monuments/pins from the survey of your property. Run the measuring tape between the two and holding tension on the tape set your compass on the tape so that it is aligned with the tape and note the magnetic bearing. To be on the safe side you should have a helper hold tension on the tape and place the compass a few feet down the tape so it is not influenced by the iron pin. Now, note the bearing and compare it to the bearing on your survey. Say the bearing on your survey reads, N 30 E. This is read as 30 degrees East of north. Your compass reads say 028 degrees magnetic or 208 degrees magnetic depending on which way you have oriented it with the tape. You now know that you need to correct each of the bearings on your survey by West 2 degrees in order to use your compass.
A better and more accurate method would be to ditch the compass and use maths to lay in your lot lines. Specifically use trig. Say you have the two pins located as mentioned previously. Lets call them A and B. You now want to create a line to C. You have from your survey, the bearing of AB and the bearing of BC. From these you can easily calculate the angle ABC Measure an arbitrary helpful distance from the apex at B towards A. We will call this A'B. Set a stake. Pick an arbitrary distance from B towards C. We will call this BC' . Now using trig, calculate the distance A'C' . Run a tape from the stake you placed at A'B toward the approximate location of BC' and another tape from B to the approximate location of BC'. The two measurements will meet at the property line assuming that you don't make a 180 degree error but I am assuming that you know generally where the property line is. Put a stake at the intersection of the measurements. You now have found point C' and can site along BC' to find C. Much more accurate than using a compass.
Actually, land surveys are required by law to be referenced to True North. The survey as shown on the plat can be oriented to True North or Grid North (as on a typical map, where North is across the entire top of the map instead of a single point at the top of the globe), but in that case the convergence angle must be shown (the angle between the reference line on the plat and True North). All of this is so that any future surveyors can accurately retrace the survey. "Apparent North" is not a valid term in land surveying because it is not exact, and it is vague in nature, where surveying measurements are required to be precise and accurate. A handful of states still allow orientation to North by use of highly accurate survey-grade compass, but when used the declination must be shown on the plat or the survey must be oriented to True North.
I am a licensed professional land surveyor.
To locate existing pins this seems legit enough for me. Walking with compass would be more precise if you choose a reference point in some distance and walk towards that instead of staring at your compass. In addition, marking out the corner with no pin I would try and measure the distance from your shed to fence corner and compare it with your plan since it is more or less in scale. Just my two cents. I am using distances with angles as much as possible on this type of surveys. Having two independent survey methods can save you from troubles some day. (I'm a professional surveyor since 1985) Greetings from Finland. :)
And what is your magnetic deviation for the area you live in? If you are in the NW it could be fairly large causing you to be on the neighbors property or well inside your property line.
I live in about the .5 deviation zone. Your right, I should have mentioned it. I knew it wouldn't really impact my readings for this experiment, but I should have mentioned it to others.
What you have done here is a very primitive form of "staking out" a point. Saying "how to find your property line" is what pissed off the surveyors. There are many many principles for boundary location. There are corners and there are monuments, there are natural monuments and artificial monuments, and what you found is an artificial monument (least amount of weight). That is why it is a good idea to have a full survey done again before building any fence. NOT A LOCATION REPORT
Thanks Matt for the voice of reason . I don't have a dog in the race but always good to see sensible . =-)
I agree on the professional survey point. A fresh survey is highly recommended, especially with the new ones being done with a lot better technology. My neighbor just had his re-done with the new technology.....the old survey was about 75 years old. He came to us and said with the new survey, his fence was apparently 10' over on our side, .......and the old survey was apparently inaccurate, and he actually had 2 less acres, and we had 2 more ! Well, this was pretty darn important, because land here is currently selling at $110,000 per acre, So that's close to 1/4 million more dollars that our property is worth ! Thank you technology ! A new survey not only prevents fences being built over the line, but in my case can also add to the property value when you go to sell or get refinanced ! As an appraiser, I can tell you that on an appraisal, we will often make an adjustment for lot size or acreage if it's enough of a difference. 4 reasons to get a new professional survey - fences or structures, contributory value of the land to your home, to make sure somebody can't make a claim against your land in the future, and to prevent title problems when you go to sell or transfer it to somebody. A survey is a fraction of the cost any one of these problems would cost to settle or correct.
Hmmm, was the compass actually laying on the corrugated roofing "tin"? Might wonder how accurate the reading would be if that is the case.
Well, glad you got a laugh, even if I do not understand why. What works, works.
I'm not sure if you answered this in another comment, and most comments are three years old, but I'm looking at a map of my property, and I'm not sure if the dimensions given are the dimensions from an aerial view, or what the map-makers measured on land. E.g., one side of the property is 255ft on the map, but it's on a slope, so thinking of the slope as a hypotenuse, is 255ft the length of the hypotenuse, or one of the legs?
The bearing of your property line is listed on the line next to the distance, no need for a protractor
If you put your fence 6" from the property line; and the neighbor does likewise, won't trees and such grow in that 12"?
Am I be able to use a building line survey to determine if the infrastructure wall belongs to me
rinse and repeat, love it, thanks.
Get some whitr plastic water pipe that can just fit over the rebar. Make it 6 feet high and paint some red stripe on it. plus dates and angles etc.
You did mean five feet. And with your method you will be seriously off the true property lines. And you will pass on problems to the future property owners. If you have real surveyed property corner stakes and straight property lines, use a string line it works just fine. Many properties don't have staked property corners yet. The compass is a fine way to find existing corner stakes but not to set new property corner stakes. In most places property corner stakes are required to be regestered with the county when they are placed.
He explains why he used 5 feet inside the boundary for his internal fence. And he did not change the location of the original survey pegs so what's your point about future owners? Any future survey will find the property boundary exactly where it is.
I can say you are very detailed and make it real easy to understand. I really appreciate this video even with the wrong numbers given LOL
My terminology was a bit off, but the concept is there!
If your surveyor can't get you within 12 inches of the true surveyed line..... you need to get your money back and find another surveyor. Better yet.. get a satellite survey. MUCHO $$$$s! Years ago when I went to school, after Ole Unk Sam requested my presence in SE Asia.. Business Law said to keep your fences one foot to your side of line. Because line position changed depending on which corner section the surveyor starts, but should not vary more than one foot either direction. I recently looked into my property lines. My neighbor was putting up a fence and his corner post was 1 ft on my side! I told him the same thing this guy said, about future owners. BUT! in my state the fence can go on the line, and if it is on your property for 20 years.... YOUR property now it belongs to the person that put up the fence. Also if you use the fence, say to keep Ole Spot from killing all their KOTS.... then YOU owe him for HALF the expense of the fence. The moral of this tid'bit of info ARE!!!
CHECK "YOUR" STATES LAND LAWS!
Sir, you are essentially practicing land surveying. Where did you get your license at?
You are taking on the liability of the fence becoming an encroachment when you do this.
Always amazes me how many people out there seem know the trade so well.
Do you have any clue as how much "land law" a professional surveyor has to know?
It is not all math based....the math is the easy part.
There is a reason licensed surveyors have to get a degree and then spend four years under the supervision of a registered surveyor before sitting for the exam.
Don't be so dramatic. I'm not surveying the land, I am trying to find a pin from info on a survey done by a professional. All is well.