How to Find the Property Lines of Any Home (Version 3)
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- In this video, I will show users how to find their property lines.
I will compare 3 applications (LandGlide, OnX App, ReGRID) known for helping users/homeowners find their property lines. Then, I will compare my measurements to the measurements of a licensed land surveyor.
Then we can determine which application is the most accurate to the exact measurements of a real land surveyor and know once and for all if these applications can be used to reliably locate property lines.
Disclaimer: If you are buying/selling land/property ALWAYS hire and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video is meant to aid neighbors with minor disputes, who don't want to spend much money to solve. Smiles from here.😊
What I used to locate the exact property lines of this home:
1. LandGlide: landglide.com/
2.OnX: www.onxmaps.com/hunt/blog/how...
3. ReGRID: regrid.com/
For other videos in this series:
How To Find Property Lines (Version 2)
• How To Find The Proper...
How To Find Property Lines (Version 4)
• How to Find the Proper...
I am licensed land surveyor with 37 years experience. This guy is going to create a lot of work for surveyors. Lol
Hi Guider. In every video I either pay for a survey or reference getting one. There is a common theme on this Channel that Surveyors are perfect, and every year I read at least 10 Survey's with multiple errors on them. No one is perfect. So I think it's good for consumers to have many options.
And headaches and unnecessary expenses for landowners… Owners, you are dealing with what may be your largest investment. Do no trust an app to identify the boundaries. Hire a professional land surveyor.
My thought exactly. If the linework on these apps comes from a county GIS (and where else would it come from?), then it is unreliable and prone to errors. Speaking from 35 yrs of experience. That said, the app may get you close enough to start looking with a metal detector and shovel. Even that does not prove the location of a found marker in relation to the adjoiners or subdivision it is part of.
I have personally surveyed , start to finish, over 11,000 properties (tracts of land).
There are simply too many variables to make the survey process something the non surveyor can do.
This is why a four year degree and four years of experience are required to be eligible to take the two 8 hours exams you must pass in order to be licensed.
....but....if people want to do it themselves, have at it.
For individuals/consumers. The key here is living in a county that has the surveys or Platts on record. The satellite images can be off and giving a false boundary line. Best option is an old fashioned survey made by a reputable company.
Correct Lisa. When consumers decide it's worth over $1,000 and 3 weeks of their time, getting a Survey is usually the best way to go.
@MarkTheRealtor Better than a lawsuit. Hopefully, folks don't follow your advice.
@@claytond6898 You mean, this advice? "Disclaimer: If you are buying/selling land/property ALWAYS hire and pay a land surveyor to get them exact."
Nice to know to solve a homeowners curiosity but no good for any dispute or planned work near a property line.
Yes, good point and well received.
Great video and love the enthusiasm. As the new owner of an older acreage with no residential neighbours but one large commercial one, this is great information.
Awesome, thanks snazzy for the high five
Used Landglide in North Georgia. It was off by 75 feet in east-west direction based upon a survey. The survey found original pipe markers within inches of where they were supposed to be.
Sorry to hear that Nate. Sounds like the County where you live may or may not have a GIS mapping Department. Landglide and other Apps like it, get their parcel data from the 3,000+ Counties. And sadly when the County data is bad, so are the Apps.
@@MarkTheRealtor yes. The county data was pretty far off as well. The lot is still usable but will cost me a second perc test.
@@natehendricksen3338 Sorry to hear that Nate. Thank you for participating in this content.
@@MarkTheRealtor You sound good, the Videography as in Photographic Editing is Certainly a pleasure to watch.
But as much as possible a producer has to be Accurate, and Not loose w/ their words.
The last that I heard is that there are 192 Nations on the earth.
@@Crayfish- Thank you for the feedback Crayfish.
good fences make good neighbors. I have a friend who has a nosy neighbor who, also, doesn't know where the property line is. He is now getting a fence to deal with the neighbor "problem"
Thanks Meaty for sharing.
So glad to find this. I am on an acre with a bare two acres of woods next to me which is now for sale. I want to use an app to see if I can find already marked survey pins or stakes and if not, mark my corners myself. Not concerned with exact accuracy but I have a feeling (since this area is part of a development), that corners will be marked. Thanks 👍
Thank you greatly for your time and information! This helps for many the GENERAL ideas of where their proper line is located.
Thank you for watching @sunoh.
Two things: On fairly small lots like this a small margin of error does not change the size of the lot by a whole lot but that same margin of error on a larger lot can make a huge difference when it comes to taxes or building new structures, fences, etc. Second: when I bought my home I had one lot line in the center of a brook--easy. Two others were streets front and back with road center line set backs-once again easy. The north side lot line however was not a straight line but involved two 90 degree turns abutting two other properties. I wanted a two section stockade fence and a perennial garden that abutted both neighbors' properties. Luckily the surveyor that had last done the survey came by at no cost to me and showed me where the pins should have been as he had been the son of the former homeowner. The neighbor at the back of my property had built their garage and six inches of one corner (corner only) were on my land but we got along great so no big deal but it could have been a contentious issue.
Thank you Abbie for the comment. Well said.
@AbbieHoffmansGhost I can't believe that your neighbor was able to build a garage right up to the edge (and beyond on that one corner) of his boundary lines! I guess there were no setback restrictions in his county, or setback reqt's with his building code people??
@@kebo57 Thanks Abbie for participating.
Not sure when the garage was built but I bought the adjoining house and property in 1981 and it was in central N.H. and our town had some very sketchy town government which is probably why the town manager, a native of that town, went to the state prison for, what they called, misappropriation of funds. @@kebo57
Water over the damn now. My wife and I divorced and sold the house and the neighbor died. @@dchall8
appreciate your efforts , Thanks Mark : )
Fun video to watch. Thanks for all the effort and having it surveyed also.
Glad you enjoyed it!
our county has plats available on line. i took the gps coordinates and put them in my hand held gps and walked the approximate line and got a good idea where my corners were. i have 3 acres, mostly wooded in southern maryland. thanks for the video.
That is awesome TRCass. Good work.
My conclusion: the accuracy of the app is dependent on random facotrs that affect the GPS accuracy of the phone, and that will vary with time. The surveyor equipment uses RTK to improve GNSS accuracy. Location correction data can also be applied via post-processing with data from various sources.
Hi Bill. The accuracy of these Apps is also highly dependent upon the GIS Mapping Dept for your County. The Apps also tend to be more accurate in flat areas rather than hilly ones.
I'll bet that if these tests were repeated the flags for each app would vary depending on time of day,
satellite position, the particular gps chip in the phone and a whole host of other factors. So bottom
line is there's really no difference between these apps apart from the user interface.
@@robertmontgomery3892 Oh, good idea for a future video. Thanks Robert.
You also need to understand that GPS accuracy on phones is only good for +/- 5 meters at best and even survey grade GPS units need to "bake" in a spot for hours to get a true GPS reading. I think the takeaway with your video is to show that the apps get you in a good "ballpark" of the area.
I am amazed at the inaccuracies of the apps. PERIOD !!!
Hi Victory. Before the Apps people would wonder and argue because they would not know with 20'-30'. With the Apps if they know within 3' then to most, that is much better. The two choices before was either 1. Not Knowing or 2. Hiring a surveyor for over $1,000. Now there is a 3rd choice.
@@MarkTheRealtorActually sounds like a different version of not knowing.
@@TexasVernon Okay Vernon. Sounds like 3' of accuracy is "not knowing". So you would be a perfect person to order a survey and pay nearly $2,000 for that last 3' of "knowing". For those who want "absolute" a Survey is usually, not always, your best option.
3' is actually pretty good for a "free" app. Keep in mind that gps is mostly used by cities to know which side of the street their water line is or to find closest fire hydrant in case of a fire. Our expensive surveying equipment get us within half an inch. People have literally been killed for flying on restricted areas before the US government decided to give our gps signals for free in the 90's. We (U.S. taxpayers) pay about 2 millions dollars per day for GPS which is available for free to the entire world.
@@MarkTheRealtorthat’s ridiculous. A survey is always the best option, aside from just having an unreliable idea of where your corners are. Surveyors are the only one licensed to tell you where you property is. Realtors are not
Thank you for posting this info. My neighbor started hinting that the fence was almost 4' onto his property, based on where the water shut off valves were. I asked the water dept. but they said that they placed them as such for their benefit/convinience and it had nothing to do with the property line. I asked my neighbor how long fence had been up. I only lived there for 20yrs. He answered that fence had been there for 30yrs. When I asked who put up fence he answered "We did". He hasn't said anything for the last few yrs, but it will be good to use these apps before we have to spend the big money to find out.
Great comment Ralphae. Hope it works out smoothly.
@@MarkTheRealtor thank you, so do I.
Just bought 21 acres, I’m gonna try these apps- thank you
Yes, excellent. If it is a very rural area, hopefully your County's GIS Mapping Dept has done a good job with the parcel maps too.
I don't know about other states, however I'd start at the local Probate Court. In my state every property plot plan aka lot map has to be recorded when it is created. If the lot changes hands it needs to recorded with the town or city. A word to the wise. There are three common markers used as corner markers or when a property line changes direction. The most common is either a steel rod or pipe driven in the ground. Normally they stick up six or more inches.Second is a Granit post about four inches square and has a hole drilled in the top. Third is a hole in a rock. Note that bounds markers can be lost or covered. I was working for a surveyor and we couldn't find a bound marker. Finally I used a metal detector and found it buried down 18" down. Drill holes in a rock in a stone wall can be fun.
Good points Canopus. Well received and thank your for sharing.
I've seen heavy steel angles used as corner markers.
Hire a pro! Period
@@Sevendeucegroup For everyone reading this, SevenDeuceGroup wants everyone to go spend $1,000 on a survey. Even if you want to know where to rake your leaves. Is that a smart decision?
@@Sevendeucegroup Professionals can cost thousands and take many months to get to your site. Depends on how many surveyors are available in your area and how busy they are... The size and makeup of your property, such as how easy it is to walk the lines and how many men they need to do the work... A very large expense... Even if you find out, then you might need to sue your neighbors if they have encroached or built on your property. Even then, if they have been using your property for a number of years, even if you didn't know about it, your SOL ... No matter what the deed says... Fighting any of this adds many thousands to the cost... That's why people generally go by existing fence lines...
Before we got our fence replaced, we called around for a survey. It was going to be close to 5k for the survey (San Francisco Bay Area + poor historical records and no corner pins) and all the companies advised against it unless we had a true property dispute or were building an ADU.
It’s kind of interesting to see the differing perspectives from surveyors. Surveyors in our area can’t be bothered to do such a trivial task.
Hi Cody. I order, pay, and review 60 survey's a year. 6-10 of those survey's are wrong. I mean, dead wrong. It's been difficult to get any type of post-survey communication, with Surveyor's. And when I do, the survey problems are always someone else's fault. And in every video I discuss how survey's are the most accurate resource. Thanks for opening up to us.
@@MarkTheRealtoryou should turn in those surveyors to the state board. Submit a formal complaint.
@@caasinauj I would never submit a formal complaint against a surveyor. They are very important. AND, I think home owners have the rights to know where their approximate boundaries are located. BOTH.
Hi Mark, thank you very much for sharing the information. I found it quite interesting as Even with professional surveyors quite often, you come up with different corners.
I review 60 surveys a year and 10% are often wrong in someway. And, being transparent, Surveyors are usually quite accurate.
I would start by finding the GIS data for the specific county and call the GIS dept to tell you what accuracy they worked on. In the county where I lived they focused on within 2 feet in the platted areas and much less accuracy in rural areas. In some locations legal descriptions are drawn, don't fit together due to various reasons, therefore forced to fit on the GIS map. GIS doesn't replace a survey. Each surveyor has their own opinion depending the equipment they are using, data provided, official documented information and etc. GIS is great to give you and idea of the overall layout.
Hi BR. Thanks for the comment. The County GIS data can either be accurate or sadly very inaccurate. Then once you get the County Data on paper or screen shot, how do people know where they are out in the field? These Apps have a colored dot which represents their GPS location. Which I think is the key. GIS without GPS usually is hard to decipher out in the field.
“Within 2 feet”? That’s a pretty lenient tolerance. The surveyors I’ve worked with typically pin property corners to within about a tenth of a foot and building corners to a couple hundredths.
@@racker7855 He clearly stated in the video that a professional survey was required for action on structures, landscaping changes, fences, etc. These apps are reviewed as useful tools to help landowners have a reasonably good idea about their property boundaries with the use of county GIS data. Depending on there needs each can decide to seek professional surveys. This is your second denigrating comment that hasn't added to the conversation. What's up?
@@lindahathaway3519
He is a pro surveyor that's going to lose money due to videos like this, that's what I suspect. I know that I will not pay a surveyor thousands of dollars and wait weeks/months unless absolutely necessary.
When I bought my home I received a surveyed plat map, which not only showed the corner locations, it located my home and detached garage relative to the property lines, making possible to take a steel tape and locate the boundaries between my home and my neighbors. Our community requires that fences be located no closer than 12" from the property line.
Thanks for sharing
That's ridiculous. By that reasoning, if you want to put up a fence and your neighbor wants to put up a fence there must be TWO FEET between the fences??? It makes more sense to share the fence.
WHY WOULD THEY BOTH PUT UP A FENCE ILLOGICAL ?@@kennethhalleck4279
What happens to that 12" of land?
@@CelticYeil IT's a measurement error. Nothing happens and property lines will not be adjusted because of it.
Hey Mark, Thank You!!!
This was fantastic!!!!!
Thanks 123. This video took some effort.
I bought a house and wanted to put a fence between me and my neighbor. They had a vicious dog that was only restrained by an “electronic” fence. (A buried wire that activated the dog’s collar.) A friend was a surveyor and he found the corner pins for free. He used his transit equipment but a metal detector is very helpful. I put the fence in and also l learned that the buried wire was three feet inside my property.
Great points Tx. Metal detectors can be a big help. If the pins are already in the ground.
I get along with my neighbors just fine. But at the end of the day it all boils down to this. You stay on your side and I will stay on my side. Do this and we will continue to get along just fine.
I like that Ozzie. Thank you for the positive comment.
It’s fine for approximately identifying where your property corners are but certainly wouldn’t rely on it to build fences or something like that. I have seen that same data you are using off over 200’ in some areas. The data the apps used are all sourced from the same place so the differences you are seeing is just the phones accuracy.
Good points Donald. Well received.
"but certainly wouldn’t rely on it to build fences or something like that."
Well,like in my case using GPS and the county assessor's map which has a measuring tool, and google maps I found my corners and lines pretty accurately, even if it was off 3 feet, I'd put a fence like 2 feet further back on my property to be sure
You have no idea how helpful this is for us, thanks a bunch.
Thank you Wooley. This video did take some time to produce.
Amazed at the apps accuracy, all what you need from her is a good metal detector. thank you
Good idea. Yes. Use the Apps to often get very close. Then use a metal detector under $50 to locate the pins underground.
Much appreciated Mark! Looking forward to the next episode on property lines! ⭐
Thank you Sidha. More to come!
If it becomes a legal issue, best to have an official survey. If really critical, maybe two different survey companies. Or have them repeat. Always ask for latest calibration date.
Good points Tim. Well received.
My property (in KCMO) is marked with round concrete markers, locations B & C mentioned in your video. A few years ago survey team came out to our neighborhood courtesy of the County, only to our side of the street.
Hi Lynn. Thanks for the note. That sound sounds great when the County gets involved with field accuracy for the benefit of all.
This may not apply in all cases, but, if you have access to a metal detector, you can easily locate existing metal stakes at perceived property corners. Of course this applies to older established properties where visual boundaries are apparent.
Yes, Bobby. Correct. This video is Version 3. If you have time look up Version 2 of this video and I did demonstrate how to do that. Hope it helps.
Finding a metal stake does not mean it's your corner. It takes much more than that to determine if it is your property corner.
@@racker7855 I was referring to Version 2 of this video. I found 4 pins and they were confirmed to be Lot corners.
@@tumadre50 I was referring to Version 2 of this video. I found 4 metal pins and they were all Survey confirmed to be the actual lot corners.
Well, if it's right within a couple or three feet near the EXPECTED corner and there's nothing else around it, it's fair to say thats the CORNER pin. @@tumadre50
I think the results would have been a lot better if you would have taken a minute at each corner for the dot to stop wandering before placing your flags. Every one of them were still drifting around, so letting it settle and even making adjustments would have drastically improved the results. Also with as big as the dot is, you had the outside edge of the dot (if at all) come near the crossing and placed a flag... should be center dot.
Very observant Liew and thanks for noticing. On the video I walked in, paused for only 2 seconds and walked out. In reality, off camera, I spent 10-mins at each corner with a tripod. YOU are right, slowing down really helped the results. Especially in the back corners next to that 20' tall concrete wall.
We had two surveyors - looked at the old boundaries agreed by the locals and previous owners and neighbours - and the land register company. We ended up with at least three different shapes and lengths and area M2.
Thank you for sharing Stephen. Yes, it can be a mess. Sorry to hear about all that.
Wow . I saw Kennelly road ‘ St Louis , Missouri’ ❤ thank you’
Thanks Gerge.
Advise for new owners: usually in new neighborhoods the lots will be plain clear to let anyone plant whatever trees and bushes they want. First mistake: NEVER mark or divide properties with hedges only. No matter if "my neighbor was ok with it", that may not be your same neighbor some years later. Properties should always be marked either by a GOOD fence or at least make permanent concrete markers that you can place down like tiles or bricks and can be easily identified. That's in case that you and your neighbor are the kind of people who like to see properties open as a big shared yard with no markings. They look nice that way, but can cause a ton of legal problems later. Then place YOUR hedge in YOUR property if you want one, so that you can prune it, take care of it, without any neighbor complaints.
Thank you for the note.
Over time those concrete markers will move. Especially in areas where the ground freezes and thaws annually.
@@cmerton Good points. IN our area we don't see many concrete markers.
we had markers in the concrete sidewalk & our new neighbors, who had a landscaping business (should have known better) decided that they would cut down a tree on my property & install a wall. His girlfriend was visiting & called the cops on ME weeding a garden 4 ' from the property line. Resulted in a lawyer, surveyor, etc. My husband & I got divorced within a year bc he blamed ME. NO one would listen to me that the markers were there-not even the cop.
@@lovly2cu725 Sorry to hear about those problems. Ugh. It is sad to me how many neighbors have issues with property lines. They are a source of big problems.
I didn't have this property surveyed and later did have it surveyed. I found out that part of my driveway/parking lot was one foot over onto my neighbor's property. This was probably because the neighbor's house was built after mine and these were wooded lots. The contractor probably didn't pay much attention. I later had my driveway replaced and located the edge at my property line. I miss that extra foot, but ill gotten gain does not profit. A neighbor moved in behind me and had a fence built, but he didn't check the property line correctly and built on the neighbor's land. He had to have the fence moved.
Good points Q. Thanks for sharing.
Some governments give pretty decent property maps. The King County Parcel viewer for King County WA does a pretty decent job of giving that top level view. It doesn't locate corners but you will have a good aerial view of your property laid out with property lines.
Hi Nick. I agree 100% with your comments, but there are a group of people commenting on this channel that believe you can even rake leaves in your yard with getting a survey first.
Great job. I will follow you for sure.
Thank you David. More coming soon.
Perhaps theses apps are good for “General” location of your property lines, in case you have no idea where your boundaries are. However, I wouldn’t recommend them for building, fence location or anything else.
Good points Steve. Not usually good for building a fence. Unless you want to keep the fence well within the property lines.
yes this is good for a rough idea. Please do NOT down play the work and research that goes into a property survey. The deed and county maps have to be investigated. This is no DIY project...
Hi John. Good points for those interested in easements and encroachments. If someone purely wants an approximation of their property lines, then often they choose the Apps.
The music is perfect!
Thanks for the note JD.
I'm all for hiring a licensed surveyor. In fact I did. It turned out one my neighbors had as well about a year before I had bought my property. The odd thing is the corners between us (that we should share) are apparently not in the same place. There is now a whole mess about which one is correct, even though both are certified (on one corner they overlap and the other end there is a gap) .
Again this year I will review over 60 survey's and 6 of them will have errors or something incomplete about them. And to be fair, often it's not the Surveyors fault, it's a problem with the Title or how some easement was recorded incorrectly. Garbage in .....Garbage out.
another problem sometimes is that someone wrote a boxed number or the one who wrote the deed transcribed the numbers wrong. another problem is that it could be 2 separate subdivisions and they overlap where they come together. another problem I've come across is a shortage in the subdivision that the last lot may say 100 foot frontage but may be short. The laws in the state relative to land surveying shall govern how to deal with these problems.@@MarkTheRealtor
@@costafamily4941 Okay, makes sense. Thank you for sharing.
Cell phones normally have a GPS accuracy in the 1 meter range.
you should do a Triple Blind repeatability test.
Use the same app and After each walking and Marking of the property corners.
do the recalibration ( which normally is to wave the phone around in a figure 8 pattern )
then Walk the property line again, and remark the corners.
do this a third time to see how well the app / phone repeats to the same location.
Good idea wyldanimal2. Appreciate the thought.
well this map data is never THAT accurate anyway
@@sebastianusami Hello Sebastian. The plat map data for your County comes from its own GIS Mapping Dept. Some Counties are very accurate while others, not so much. Sometimes the Apps are only as good as your Counties GIS Dept. Especially in some hilly regions, the maps can be less accurate.
Commercial cellphones do not have guaranteed 1 meter GPS accuracy. It varies with latitude. Accuracy is further reduced without announcement during times of heightened national security alerts, done by having the members of a satellite constellation offset their signal by differing amounts from the fixed time base. It's also possible to bias a location by rebroadcasting some signals at a stronger level.
@@MarkTheRealtor right, so you cant count on them.
I use Hunt Stand when hunting (as opposed to OnX) and it also offers lot lines (along with property owner names). It's also very accurate.
Very interesting to see this in a real world application. One thing I noticed is that the averages are all roughly within 1 meter of accuracy, which is essentially what the GPS receiver in your phone is capable of. I'd be curious if you re-ran each test 2 or 3 times if you'd get the same results as the first time for each product or if they would also vary +/- 1 meter.
Hi Chad. Oh, I love OnX too. I have produced a video being released in 2 days on GPS and techniques to leverage its strengths. Hopefully CZcams will send it do you once there is a link.
Very informative, thank you
Glad it was helpful! IN the next few days I am uploading a video on finding your property corners using GPS. Please look for it too.
Great video. The only thing I would suggest is getting 3 measurements from each point from each app and record the averages. GPS is an awesome tool, but it's not perfect.
Great tip Joe. Thank you for the idea.
To recommend to anyone on ways to “find your property corners” other than calling a Land Surveyor is reckless.
Hi Matthew. So I wanted to know where my side property line was so I could put my trash cans out by the street in my yard. Would you suggest I call a surveyor so I know where to put my trash cans? Matthew, I want to know approximately where my property line is so I know where to cut my grass. Would you suggest I call a surveyor? Sure, surveyors are accurate but at $1,280 and waiting 3 weeks for results is not always the best solution.
@@MarkTheRealtor I have been called out to do surveys over the very scenarios you have mentioned, after the fact. And I can tell you that when its all said and done, survey fees, attorney's letters back and forth, etc. it's way more than $1,280.. Not to mention when you and that neighbor meet at the mail box or happen to be picking up the morning newspaper in the driveway at the same time you don't even speak because your pissed off at each other.
How to find property lines? Hire a surveyor. Simple solution.This is the legal way to resolve disputes. Try using your app in court..dah😮😊
Correct Jer for anything Legal, hire a Surveyor. For EVERYTHING not legal, use the Apps.
Thanks Mark
Thanks for the information😊
Thank you Paula J. Hope it helps.
There is no substitute for a survey, especially before closing on a property. I would never buy ANY property without property points decisively defined and defendable by law.
Yes, Abiseid. As said in nearly every video and description I produce. These tools are not for a land purchase, they are for pre-purchase evaluation. They are also helpful to current property owners who are not transacting a parcel of real estate.
Thank you so much for taking your time to explain and give very useful information.
Thank you Luis for watching this content.
Helpful video, but only for limited situations. I'd hesitate to use them for placing a fence.
It would be interesting to see the results if you were to repeat the walk around with each app, maybe from different directions, at different times, and collect data on the "repeatability" of the results for each app.
In my case, I live on a corner lot. The back of my property line, is the side of my neighbor's property (absentee owner's who rent the house out).
That side of their house is only approximately 4' from the property line, and the back of my house is approximately 20' from the property line.
We'd love to DIY install a 6' high vinyl privacy fence. Have asked for the property owner's permission and sharing the cost. Their reply was that they would not share the cost, and they were okay with the fence as long as a survey was performed.
With the tight space we are dealing with, we need to place the fence exactly on the property line, or we will be sacrificing precious real estate.
Local Surveyors want about $2,600 to stake the line, which is almost equal to the cost of the fencing materials! I have crawled using a metal detector and poking the ground with a spade trying to find a marker pin. At best I've found a heap of bottle caps.
Great note John. Very well said.
The survey costs what it does since there's time and effort into it. We can't just find two monuments and automatically stake a line between them. We have to research, to make sure the subject lot and adjoiners' fit together without conflict - or in the case of conflict, try to resolve it. Take field measurements to see how the field locations fit with the plan/deed calls. Along with that is the liability - so we need to be sure that we're right
So, as we say, it's not necessarily staking the line that costs so much, but figuring out where to stake it.
Sometimes it is the staking, though, on large acreage lots, and can get into the 10's of thousands of dollars
I do find it funny that you and others look to compare survey costs with fence or other costs. When land was cheap, I guess - but now, if you have a $300k-500k property, it sounds a bit foolish to not know what you own, and that $2600 is too expensive to find out what you actually bought for that kind of money
Thank You Sir.... Very informative Video 😊
Thanks David for watching that. It was a little longer than I wanted.
Thank you for the info mark
Thanks DanO
I don't think it's accurate to say that an app which marks a corner '3 feet off' on a 300 foot property is *99% accurate.* Three feet is HUGE when it comes to real estate. It might be more appropriate to say that an app *has a variance of plus/minus 3 feet* ( or "an accuracy of +/- 3 feet"). The *total* property width/length has nothing to do with accuracy, so *percentage* would not apply. Otherwise that would be like saying _"the app marked the rear west corner of the building only 3 feet off - whereas it could've marked that same corner as the front west corner which is 300 feet away."_
Another reasoning as to why percentage would not apply: The pinpointing accuracy of the app is based on the accuracy of the technology - i.e., the GPS system. As such, if the app was trying to locate a corner of a 50 foot long property, it might be off by 3 feet - which is *6%.* Likewise, if the app was trying to locate a corner of a 300 foot long property, it might be off by the same 3 feet (since it's the same technology), but that same 3 feet would be *1%* off on that 300 foot property. Obviously, that's not a good way to tabulate the results. Yep, I'd use "plus or minus 3 feet", or whatever distance your tests demonstrated.
That is a good point Gatsby. Well received.
Thanks for thar well reasoned reality check
Correct!
"The total property width/length has nothing to do with accuracy." Exactly. We're trying to locate a specific point whose location is not based on its relationship to any other point.
Please start your video with the warnings that these methods you suggest are VERY approximate. Using GIS maps to locate property corners is not reliable. Let alone relying on the GPS on your phone. If someone needs their boundaries marked, use a licensed land surveyor to find and/or set the corner monuments. People can be very passionate about boundarry lines. Don't rely on faulty information.
In every video I say that. And it's in the description. In this video I even hired a Professional survey team as an accuracy datum. Hey "User" did you even watch this whole video?
😂 he is trying to save homeowners money because city and states ripping people off.
my neighbors shed is built on the other neighbors property!!! ReGRID is awesome!
Thank you Hundred. I too use it everyday and in my area is very accurate.
Very, very good video. I hope that my Onx off-road app has the same capability. Last year I called a company to survey one property line in dispute. They said they only do the entire lot, and the cost to a residential property would be $1200. The accuracy that you obtained would be sufficient for me. Thanks.
Thank you H for the positive feedback.
Who else busted out laughing when he said "on a mobile device, with 3 apps" 😂😂 not to mention that the parcel data is typically used for tax purposes only and does not include property gaps, gores, ect. Parcel data, does not replace deed research. Mark, if you ever worked under a surveyor, you would realize why this is bad advice. To any readers, if your looking to sell a house, talk to a realator. If you want to know where your property lines are, talk to a surveyor.
Hi Hayden. I have actually worked for a Surveying Company. And please consider how to spell the word "Realator" before offering your expertise to the community of home-owners.
@@MarkTheRealtorand while we’re at it, we could mention that it’s etc. …not ect….😉😆
@@cynthiadebeau4230 Well there we have it. Now I'm corrected.
@@MarkTheRealtor❤ 😊👍🏻 ... lol
@@MarkTheRealtorAnd your (you’re) is also misspelled! 😊
Use a surveyor. A licensed guy like me. Each state and county have different laws and practices. So get a local guy who knows the area. You may pay a bit more than an app. But you will have 1000 times more certainty of the correct position between you and your neighbor's adjoining line.
This guy is not informed. He may know real estate; not legal land status.
It's just the truth.
Great advice SLH. Yes, get a surveyor. Since you are informing consumers, then advise them on who is going to pay for it? Surveyors have written me back over 500 times in the last year "Get A Surveyor, this guys an idiot". Okay, who is going to pay $1,000 and wait 3 weeks for an official survey? If Survey's are so great they why will only 20% of all home buyers order and pay for a survey?
thanks, that was very helpful
Glad it helped
I like looking for corners in the woods. Three hash marks on a tree. Sometimes on the rocky hill side it says a pile of rocks or going way back to the warranty Deeds or the original land grants they say this tree or that creek. One in Luisiana it was a grant from the king to the family. They never subdivided it or ever got a loan for the property.
Oh no Brett. That does sound like a mess. Sorry to hear that.
You are giving bad advice to propery owners. I'm glad you hired a professional surveyor as part of your report. A Surveyor is the only person who can legally locate property corners. You stated that the apps got you to 90 percent+/_. That's great. Expect some of the corners were over 3 feet. That is what causes disputes and problems with neighbors. If a person uses one of these apps
and builds a fence 3 feet off their property on to the neighbor's not only does it cause issues between the neighbor's it causes lawsuits, snd tension. If the fence is in the wrong location, the property owner will have to remove the fence at their own expense. The reason a survey costs what it does is because the surveyor must research the property records and history to make sure the corners are placed in the correct location. It will cost a property owner a lot more money to remove a fence, house, or garage after it is built in the wrong location. Am app is great for approximation, but don't use to build anything. Thank you.
Hi Jim. Some good points here. In nearly every video I recommend hiring a surveyor. And on every video viewers comment back saying "You're giving bad advice, get a Surveyor".
Thank you Mark!
Thanks Ron for watching. Cheers.
Great report!
We need more bees in our community too.
Bravo! Well-made and good intentioned. And useful too!
Thank you Trent. In a sea of judgement and anger, your comment is well received.
Almost every parcel has been surveyed at some point, with metal rods driven into the ground at corner points. Usually they do not stick up out of the ground. Rent or borrow a metal detector, then use one of these apps to decide where to look for the buried rods. This is usually very easy, since they are normally not any more than 6 inches underground. When you have a flat suburban lot, and can see each corner from the adjacent corners, all you need for determining the boundary line is some stakes and masonry twine. If it's hilly, then it gets a lot more complicated. You may need a surveyor to use other reference points and precise angles to set your line stakes.
Beware, though. I used a big survey company to do my parcel, and they sent somebody new who missed a corner by about 10 feet, on his first try. I had to get him back and point out the actual buried pin, so he could correct all the line stakes. If you can find your corner rods, that gives them known reference points.
Good points GuyG. Thank you for sharing. If you are interested my Property Lines video Version 2 demonstrates how to use a metal detector to locate those metal pins.
Love your vest.
and your music.
It also depends on how these apps weigh the value of data. It doesn’t tend to vary as much in urban or suburban areas, but in rural areas it’s not uncommon to find discrepancies in overlay data.
In many recent cases there have been disputes over resources and it turned out that On X was favoring Tax maps as they were more “easily available”. However in some cases the tax records lacked updates from official county records. In other cases they had just “corrected” some lines that were not relevant to the purpose of taxation being within acceptable margins of error.
So one of the key issues with these applications is that their data is just an accumulation of many different sources with many different types of Providence. And there is much to much data for the companies to do analysis of which data sets are most accurate or relevant. Where as an official survey contractors job is to actually weed through those types of inconsistencies.
Well okay then. There you have it.
I just "liked" for the HP-41C over the shoulder... still have my CV from '85!
Oh Cynthia. Yes, very observant. At the time the best device in the market.
@@MarkTheRealtor Indeed. I have several HP RPN calculators now, and I still use them! I just wish HP still catered to that market.
@@Cynthia_Cantrell Oh me too. Yes, Reverse Pol Notation. No "equals" sign. I miss those days too Cynthia.
Great job thanks god bless
Thank you John R. I hope this helps.
great video, very helpful.
Thank you VVT for watching and understanding. Many watch 2 mins of it, get offended, and fire back.
If you are putting up a fence then the best remedy is to mark the corners and still put the fence less than the boundaries, like 1 foot inside if you use the original pins and notations from plot map. Then the only issue to come up is who mows that little you didn't the fence on. Very good video and helps show how each app can have subtle differences. Now how can we well the surveyors measurements are as accurate as they say. Could have same interference on their equipment as a phone app.
Thanks for the note John. Well received. The surveyors I was with had special equipment that they said costs over $30,000. He said it was accurate within 1 cm. Impressive.
The GPS equipment used in surveying is different, uses different signals, and is accurate to as little as 1/8". It's also obscenely expensive and requires a hefty subscription. And trained operator with tape and transit can get measurements that are accurate to 1/2 inch.
@@joelee2371 Thank you for the feedback JL. Agreed, very valuable equipment and experience is needed. There is a gap between what home owners want as far as corner locations and what it costs them to acquire the info. Within that gap all these other partial solutions are growing. I like Survey's. But we all realize many property owners will not spend the money to hire them.
Fences should never be installed on the property line even when there is no question about its accuracy. Fences installed on a property line become the shared legal responsibility of both properties. You could, for example, sell your house, and if the fence is dilapidated, the new owner could sue the neighbor for half the cost of repairing the fence.
@@tycox8704 And yet 9 out of every 10 fences in our area are installed right on the property line. Our Fence companies demand a pre-survey, snap a line, and start building.
great info thanks
Glad it was helpful!
TYVM, Mark. We just purchased a home, and the neighbors are cutting down our trees. I'm definitely going to try this.
Yes, thank you. Sorry to hear that. I walked a lot yesterday where the neighbors widened their driveway by 15' because they thought their land went to the light pole. Oops.
@MarkTheRealtor I tried using Regrid but it wouldn't allow me to walk the property and show me the way. I did, however, obtain my lots measurements.
... and canceled my subscription
@@thesentimentalsoul3683 Glad it helped. Confirming I don't work for any of the App companies or get paid one penny by them.
For all the naysayers, this is a great starting point. You can flag approximate corners and go to a hardware store or check online for a metal detector and find a basic one for low cost. Now you have starting points to sweep and find your metal rods or badges (I work in a community that uses oversized metal coins/badges) in concrete at the marked corners. Owning a fencing company, it's been a very important process. And we never install fencing on the line unless there's a shared affidavit between neighbors. 4 inches inside the line if we do it or recommended 6 inches inside if you are a DIYer.
Good points Thomas. Well received.
Yep my grandpa moved his fence in 12 inches after neighbor refused to pitch in along there joining area took 60 years for papa to get revenge after they built a 3 car garage butted up to the fence he installed they were trying to divide and sale a portion of their property during that time city discovered the garage was on my papas property and they made them knock the garage down another friend did the job and said the home owner was just saying that fing my papas name shacking his head!! Papa got the last laugh didn’t get to see it but i sure love to tell the story and will always do as he did !!
@@caseG80 Hi Case. Sorry to hear about all this. It does sound like something a Full Boundary Survey would solve. It might be a bit expensive and likely worth it if they can solve the puzzle.
Looks like you can get within about 8 or 10 feet of the line or the corner point. Great help sure.
Thank you for doing it grayeagle. AND, the more I let the equipment acclimate, the more accurate it became.
Perfect solution to map out ATV trails on my 30 acre forested ranch without encroaching on my neighbors land. Even though they wouldn't care if I did clear a few feet of their underbrush for them.
Great points Trevor. So fun.
really good video!!! I wonder if regrid "corner A" was actually 72". it was much closer on the other 3 corners
Thank Ukepa. There was an internet signal booster on the pole right over it. I think there was some interference sure. All of the reading were more accurate when I would stand there for 3-mins and let the GPS chip acclimate. But for the video I had to walk in frame, place the flag, and walk back out of frame in 15 seconds.
My dad is a surveyor and I've helped survey more lots than I can count.
Lots are seldom perfect rectangles and don't always have just four property corners, but I think these apps could be useful. If you need to find your property corners for a legal issue or because you want to build something immovable, hire a registered surveyor. If you just want to know where your property corners are and the property has been surveyed before; maybe you could use the apps and a copy of your plat to get close to where the corner should be. If the apps get you to within a few feet, you should be able to find at least one property corner.
Corners often get covered with leaves or dirt, so you may have to poke around with something thin and sharp to find them or use a metal detector. Concrete monuments and steel rods are resilient, but I wouldn't recommend randomly digging with a shovel. You might move your corner if you do.
After you find one corner, you should be able to use a fiberglass measuring tape (the big 100' to 300' ones) to find the other corners, if they are still there. Sometimes they get pulled up, run over, excavated, or were never placed in the first place.
Hello Lt. One of the best comments in the history of this video. Very well said !!!!
I am a landscape contractor and work at many different homes, some in the million dollar range and most people do not know or even care where their property lines are.
Well received. Correct some people don't care.
In rural Australia you can wait for 6 months to get a survey done and it’s depending on size of the land take my place it’s 55acres and just to get 2 surveys points done it’s $6000
Thanks for sharing Tanyia.
I remember a surveyor once showing me a little cross marked in the cement of curb, right next to the driveway.. He told me that they sight down that cross to determine the property line between our house and the neighbor's.
I walked up and down the street and saw thoses crosses on the curb edge of the driveways of every house on the street.
Interestingly enough, sighting down that cross, the property lines are not exactly what you would think.
Tricky.
Thank you Joe for the comment. Good points, those cross hairs can be a big help. Also please keep in mind that many States have something called Street Creep. Our streets in St. Louis are shifting and moving with thermal expansion and erosion downhill.
Mark Scheller- you talk about how "wildly expensive" surveyors are but maybe you should check out the education required and compare that to what is required to be a realist ate agent and compare the fees involved for each.
Hi Han. You make a good point. Surveyors are typically highly educated and trained for years. AND, before degrading my profession consider how to spell it. "Realist ate agent"?
Hi Mark. Ha, Ha, You make a good point as well. That will teach me to proof read.
Using those apps are great for fun, but we professional surveyors are working for accuracy of 1 foot in 10,000 feet of line. Usually on large tracts ( 10 acres and up ) we get better. 1 in 10,000 becomes 0.1 in 1,000 and 0.001 in 100.
Hi Robt. That is so impressive. Correct the Apps can't touch that kind of accuracy.
Never expected to sub to a channel like this but your logic is outstanding! Plus Im a homeowner!
Hi Mary. Thanks for the note. Yes, homeowners who care about their property, are good at learning about it. Smiles.
Neighbor requested to install deer fence in their backyard…(which is adjacent to our front & side yard-we’re a community with 3 acre lots). As they need line of site approval by neighbors on either side, we stipulated that they need to verify property lines by a competent authority to receive our approval. Now, at the rear of their property/ / our side property , there is a property line marker placed by the builder. The company the neighbors hired to mark their boundaries & corners marked the property line about 10-12 feet toward my property from the builder’s corner marker. When the people were there to mark the property lines, I even told them that there was already a corner marker at the rear of the their lot…the guy that replied was a bit smug and said we’ll see. I think they mismarked the property line intentionally to give some of my property to my neighbor. I’m don’t want to spend the money to hire someone myself to verify the property lines, though…got a couple of quote soon after the neighbor’s had their’s done…the quotes ranged from $2500-4000. What a ripoff. I’ve used a couple of different apps that show the line was marked incorrectly by the company the neighbors hired.
Thanks MR for your story. Your situation about being at odds with neighbors is far too common. Territory has been a controversial topic for we mammals for most of our existence.
As I found out years ago there marked lot lines, there are surveyor lot lines, and there is whatever the township, city, county has recorded.
Good points Ferd.
Bought my house in 2000... There was a prior dispute... I think recently (in the last 5 years) the last of it got fixed).... Likely surveyed decades before in larger chunks.... Those had been broken down without full blown surveys, so the fencelines (of old farm) were used.... Then at some point (i can ask some remaining neighbors) likely a sale with financing a survey happened, house i am in was over the "line" because the fence lines were 15 feet off of the descriptions... So the west and east lines slid 15 feet.... But the neighbor to the east who lost 15 feet didn't pursue the next line to the east at the time... When a key old guy involved in the prior transactions was still alive... So more recently new owner lost 15 feet on the other side... Because it hadn't been part of the BLA done in the late 90s.... 15 feet doesn't sound like much but its on a ~300 foot line. This just reminds me that i need to go find the pins that weren't marked in 2022 during the last thing... Just because i haven't put eyes on them in a couple decades.
Sorry to hear about these challenges. Ugh. You are not along with thousands of property disputes each year.
I had high hopes when this video began, but quickly realized how much deviation from actual survey points this use of apps would include. If the best I can hope for is about a meter of error, I may as well be guessing where the property line lies.
Hi Patrick. Thanks for the comment. I have an idea for you. Millions of parcels have been Surveyed prior and have metal pins in the ground. On my channel is Version 2 of this video. It uses the Apps to get within a meter. And then a metal detector to find the pins from years prior. Maybe try that? czcams.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/video.htmlsi=67EM4OknLi14Kcwu
Thank you
Thank you Pete for watching.
Google maps does have parcel info just not for all locations, go to the default view and zoom in. You can still drop pins if needed and when you go back to the sat view the pins will remain on screen.
Hi Steven. You might be on to something. One other viewer told me that too. I just went into GoogleMaps and could not find parcel data. Asking if the plat maps are in Settings? Or, how did you get them to show up?
You have to hire a certified surveyor and have them perform the survey of your property. Then record that Survey with the county department responsible for parcel plots. Then if there are any fences that have been established for more than 25 years that have never been contested that are in conflict with proerty lines. Those fence lines be come the property boundry. That was decided in a supreme court ruling wetween Hanwrath and an adjoining Rancher in Duschene county Utah. In the late 1980s. Your attorney can easily look it up.
For anyone reading these comments. You don't have to hire a certified Surveyor. You, as a Consumer have the right to know where your approximate boundary lines are located. And the various Apps do a great job at this. My neighbor was building a swingset in the backyard and wanted an approximation of where the lines were. The Apps have some purpose. And like I have said so many times before, if you are adding permanent structure or Fence, the Surveys can be useful.
This is fine to roughly see where your property sits but I wouldn't be building/renovating/putting a fence up using this - just asking to get in trouble. I can't tell if you're advocating for people to survey without licenses but there's a fine line here. I have however seen your disclaimer about when selling and such, it's good you've added that.
I am advocating that homeowners here have Rights. And a fundamental right of home ownership, is the right to take measurements on their own property. There is a video on my Channel of 15 uses cases. There are 5 situations where I absolutely recommend getting a Survey. And 10 other situations where I think a Survey is overkill.
I hope most people are aware that your phone is only a few meters accurate. The only way is to hire a licensed surveyor to mark your property corners.
Luis, did you even watch the video? That is literally to topic of the entire video. And yet 1,000's of consumers have used this video to locate their EXACT property corners. For people who watch the material and learn it, they get great results. For people who watch 1 min, get triggered, and offer their genius advice "Get a Survey".....and spend $2,000.
Hi Mark thank you for the valuable info I have one question I have a 5 acre parcel in st john arizona it is of grid I think my phone loses signal when I get real close to my property will I still be able to locate the corner boundaries wit regrid or any of the other apps and if not what do you think is available out there for people in my situation thank you and sorry that is 2 questions instead of 1
Good day Orlando. With Wifi at your house consider opening up LandGlide and getting all the maps connected in your device. Then when you go out into the field, the map should open, and the GPS satellites will take over the location of the blue dot. When you walk towards corners or boundaries, please take your time and let the location acclimate slowly off of GPS triangulation.
Mark. what were the metal post shown in the video supposed to be marking?
Hi Patrick. Very observant. There were some tall metal post the owner put up to keep the neighbor off their property during construction. A few others were holding up trees that were leaning. The owner got them from the hardware store and hammered them into the ground.
Land Surveyor is the only way to determine the property lines with confidence!
In each video I am clear that getting a Survey is best. But who is going to pay the $1,200 or over $2,000 to get their land surveyed? Some will, most will not. For those who will not pay for an expensive Survey, video's like this do offer some solutions. Version 2 of this video locates the EXACT property corners using Landglide -and- a metal detector.
I think the apps are for a proximation, it’s not a legal or concrete, like set in stone determination.
Im thinking if you’re going to build anything like a barn or house, or any structure definitely have it professionally surveyed, and know city/ state rules for setbacks.
A fence, wall, or trees is different, in that, they’re easily removed or re-positioned.
Rule of thumb: with fences, walls, and trees always provide a cushion; like a couple of feet to keep peace with neighboring properties.
Even surveyors can get it wrong.
Both Landglide and Regrid are west 92 feet of actual markers, for several miles of the development I live in. I understand the county GIS did not do a good job digitizing the survey maps. I don't see how it will ever be right without more funding. Ferry County, WA
Thank you Seahorse for trying. Sorry the results were poor. Ugh.