Is Gallium Nitride "better than" Silicon in Class D Amps ? Jeff Rowland Model 125 vs. AGD Tempo
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2022
- NOTE: I AM A USER AND SELLER OF JEFF ROWLAND AMPS EVERY DAY FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS.
This video is my personal opinion, and made independent of any MFG. nothing more.
JRDG 125 AGD Tempo
Male Vocal 1:36 5:39
Jazz Piano 2:36 6:39
Female Vocal 3:36 7:39
Symphony 4:36 8:39
Higher Volume test:
Daft Punk 11:23 9:49
Cosmic Hippo 11:39 10:07
Bee Gees 12:02 10:49
What to listen for :
Jazz Piano, off the cuff the ride cymbal is audibly darker on the AGD. It would be orange brass, while Rowland would be yellow brass. The cymbal separates away from the piano better with the Rowland.
Female Vocal, Her voice separates better away from the piano on the Rowland and you can hear her vocal air more distinctly on the Rowland.
Symphony, Which sounds more like actual strings ? (Dont comment if your ass sits at home and never goes to the live symphony, because you have no clue)
Daft Punk, Rowland has more snap and cymbal is more open AGD is thicker in the middle
Bee Gees, Vocal peels off and away from the cymbals better on Rowland.
Here I compare the (GaN) AGD Production Tempo to my reference (Si) Jeff Rowland Design Group Model 125. The Tempo is supposed to be a 125 "crusher" and it SHOULD be for $2,000 MORE. (The Tempo PCB fits the EXACT footprint of the B&O 250 ASX2 ICE Module, which is what the Rowland uses, yet the Rowland has Jeffs signature input section which uses dual custom made Lundahl transformers for input decoupling surrounded by a Class A Analog input section developed over 40 years designing analog audio circuits) Lets see what trumps what. Audio design experience or latest technology.
Here are the specs compared. (As published on each MFG's respective webpages)
Rowland MODEL 125 AGD TEMPO
Price in USD $3500 $5500
Output Power (Stereo) 125W@ 8Ohm 100W@ 8Ohm
Output Power (Bridge-tied Load) 500W@ 8Ohm 400W@ 4Ohm
Frequency Response ( -3dB) 5 Hz -130 kHz 5Hz - 80 kHz
Input Impedance 40k ohms 40K ohms
THD + Noise @ 1kHz 0.008% 0.01%
Damping Factor @ 1kHz 500 not published
Overall Gain 26 dB not published
Weight (weighed on my shipping scale) 10.4 LB 11 LB
Overall Dimensions h-w-d 68mm x 348 x 190 95mm x 280 x 180
My opinion is that the Jeff Rowland is not only better looking, sounding and clearly more dynamic, but its $2,000 less expensive. The decision is a no brainer. My feeling is that the Tempo is a failed attempt at greatness while the other amplifiers made by AGD are the real front runners. Use AGD if the $5500 cost is within means and your rig is forward or sharp sounding. This will tame it . Use Rowland to build your high perf High End rig and give it life and punch that grabs your speakers by the Cojones. Take action on this value and contact me to purchase. Go to 11stereo.com to find out what advantages and benefits you receive from being a client of mine. (theres a reason I call you client rather than customer)
Enjoy !
Mikey !
Mikey, you tha man bro. Came here from jays channel, your videos full of wisdom, keep dropping them gems 📿 💯
Thanks ML, I will.. ;-)
Not enough comparisons between these topologies. Always wondered how they differ. To my ears in your setup, Jeff Rowland...wow, excellent. 🙏🏼
Holy crap! This sounds amazing Mike.
Jeff Rowland is The Man! When I get the scratch I'm totally going for his designs. Thank you for the comparison.
You bet brother...
Thanks, Mike. Another good listening lesson. The listening tips in the description helps. Even through CZcams I can definitely hear the JRDG125 value proposition. It's even a great desktop option due to it's diminutive size. By listening through my headphones I can see how my mains/subs combo isn't properly dialed in (bass was boomy and slow) for one, veiled over, and just not up to the task of matching your rig (no surprises)(mind you, subs level is still up from last night's movie, so add some salt). Flight of the Cosmic Hippo is an ass-grabber! My apartment was rattling at 75 dB! (always a joy to the world on a Sunday morning. Hi ho, neighbour)
About that AGD amp. I've learned that topology and case/shielding architecture makes for more of a difference than the audio chip. You always make the effort to point that out. So an average execution of GA is gonna yeild an average result. I don't know what makes it different from their others - is it their entry-level piece? I'm open to a video about the differences within the AGD lineup, but I'm not sure if this is your thing, Mike. But this much I can say: if a company can't beat a Jeff Rowland in their first six years, they never will. This is based on the principle that champions are evident the year they come on the scene. It could be art, sports, science, business, politics - doesn't matter; next-level brilliance generally trumps experience (unless, sometimes, that experience is brilliant at cheating).
Thanks Nick for your thoughtful feedback.. You are very thorough and have good patience. I pointed out the diff to another guy up the feedback list. Monos will always sound better than their stereo counterpart due to separate power supplies completely independent of each other. This also means the single channel gets a beefier Psup because its got it all for itself and with the extra real estate mfgs usually make a more robust Psup on the mono version. Next the "Tube" monos separate the amplifier completely from the Psup encasement effectively reducing any induced noise from the power supply to the amplifier circuit... Hope this helps ...
@@OCDHIFiGuy Makes sense. Noted. Thanks M.
Great musical selection young man...I have to admit...you indeed have come along way under my tutelage...go forth and prosper! Ha,ha
Bentley Down Under ! Yes, I took that 1Min or less thing to heart as well as making sure to feature all sorts of genres... Good looking out for the channel my man !!
DAYUMN, you have great room-system synergy🎼👌👌👌
Thanks Pete!
@@OCDHIFiGuy…👍🍻
Great video, Mikey! Input impedance is the same on both units?
Input impedance is moot on the Rowland due to the existence of dual mono Lundahl of Sweden Transformers on the proprietary Rowland class A input stage.
Any chance you can make a video on Micromega M-150 ? I am trying to get this and all it my end game unit for the next 3 years... or may be a Lyngdorf tdai 3400. I wanna step away from separate units for different tasks....
Verastarr is not an AGD dealer. The AGD Tempo chassis is made using a single billet aluminum block. All the comments made by this gentleman are driven by only one reason which is evident to everyone.
LOL, Did I say I was an AGD dealer ? What idiot would be an AGD dealer when the manufacturer is selling around them, as evidenced by the "Buy it now" button on thier website ? If I did not like the brand altogether I would not give respect to the Audion and Vivace Monos which I do both in this video description as well as in this video. Furthermore I suggest that this amp is good for sharp sounding systems which 75% of users have. My point is that Jeff Rowland in my opinion has a much better looking finish, sounds better to my ears in my rig in my room and is a clear, honest value at $3500. I feel AGD missed the mark with this piece. The Monos are different... Does my opinion really matter that much ? I think not...
Oh man those big tubes look SICK!
The other guy just spent 8 grand on a stand that looks like stamped steel parts spot welded together.
Mikey knows and appreciates true craftsmanship....... hes not spending money on gear just for the sake of spending more money.
That was great to hear some BGs!
Yes, the racks I buy have 20 plus years of science behind them .... Not sure about the others... Id rather discuss features aside from price actually.... We all know the prices are stupid in many occasions...
Awesome
I'm going to go demo one of those JRD amps. I want to see what good class D's all about. I wish I could just go to Jeff's shop and borrow one. I live in Colorado Springs I called but they don't sell to the public 🤷. Cool demo thanks for putting it up!
If you ask kindly and bring lunch, You may be able to get a demo there since youre so close, but under no circumstances are they obligated to do so. If you are a buyer contact me and Ill send you one to listen to in your rig with a satisfaction guarantee. Otherwise hit a show ... the best way is to try it in your own rig, but if you are just on a mission of discovery try a local dealer, but give them your business if you like something they spent time to show you ...
@@OCDHIFiGuy JRD gave me a number in Denver that will let me take them home and do a demo. I'm going to make a trip down there borrow a couple different amps JRD and some tube amps, never tried tubes. After seeing your video today I have to try some tubes nothing at that level though lol. Cheers thanks for the cool videos!
Still the AGD for me. Using a tube amp in my set up the AGD sounds similar.
There you go, Ive got one for sale if you'd like ... just call..
Mickey, I'm seriously looking to pick up the Roland 125, but what would you recommend as a decent preamp for it? Would one of the Denefrips preamps do, or Musician Monoceros?
If you don't have vinyl, a preamp is not needed. If you do then don't put cheap Chinese gear with a Rowland. Find a used Rowland preamp if you can't spend for new... ;-)
No contest. Reminds me when my high school friend said his Soundesign receiver sounded better than my Technics. 😊
It's a little bit weird....Some time ago,( not too much), looking at this site, the AGDs seemed the best amps of the world...
Luigi, this is about a certain AGD amp, NOT all of them. I still love the monoblocks ...
Ok, but , lately, I ' m seeming you prefere the TRUE tubes....or am I wrong ?
Not so sure about audio, but for RF and microwave GaN amplifier chips can take a lot of punishment, also the high bandgap gives a stiffer cut-off and cut-on when switching and thermal noise/bleed through are negligible.
Jeff won this time with a more fun and involving presentation.
Hes good at that .... ;-)
On the vocal track, the attack on the notes sounded "clipped" slightly. 3:55 it's pretty clear. Either overloading the mic, the amp, or tweet, or the recording has some serious compression applied.
OK, so compare the clip sound between amps .... Neither amp is clipping thats for sure.
@@OCDHIFiGuy that sound wasn't as noticeable on the second amp, but then again, there's no way to tell how loud it is since your phone likely has an adjustment for volume. Like I said, it could be the recording itself, which wouldn't be the first time some dipshit on the console said "it's not loud enough, MORE COMPRESSION!!!
Mike, I am still wondering how I can hear most of the stuff you mentioned about the JRD vs AGD amps. But yes, to me, the Model 125 was clearly superior. It wasn’t even subtle. JRD had MUCH tighter bass. More air and more open. More detail. AGD sounded closed in and a little boomy. When am I getting my JRD tribe email!? I have a pair of Bryston 28B3 monoblock beasts to sell!
I left a what to listen for list to help.... Stay tuned for news letter !
Goes to show, always good to remind yourself to read the description before you post the comment. I still find I forget to do that sometimes. But yeah, the JR125, what a clear winner. Another way to say it is that it's like going from mp3 to CD. Everything opens up, dynamics...
I ve been thinking about the 125 for a while I don't like class d I prefer class a-b but its gonna be summer but I will be coming to buy the Jeff rowland it may take a little while but I buy what I like so Ill see ya in awhile thanks Mikey
Class D of today is not the class D of yesterday... Its come FAR..
WOW
So how about the JR 125 compared to the AGD mono blocks? Which do you go for? (I know there's a big difference in price).
AGD Monos at over twice the price are better, yes... they should be !
@@OCDHIFiGuy okay wait, what is the equivalent JR model to the AGD monos in your opinion? That should be the one people should aim for, including me!
I have to agree with you on all your points. The low weight ........... surprises me on both, because my Mattfer carbon steel skillet and cast iron pan weights a few oz. more and has zero watts hahahaha. Keep truckin' Mickey :-}}
Tuanis Mae !
I’m not sure I follow your logic of setting the volume levels using only the identical settings of the MPD-8 output. The perceived “power” of an amp is determined by at least two things: input sensitivity and circuit gain. Based on my research, the JR125 has 26dB of gain whereas the AGD Tempo has 23dB of gain. As you know, the human ear can discern audible differences in volume from the speakers based on very subtle differences in these amp parameters. Here, a 3dB difference in gain would be clearly noticeable. And the overall perceived sound quality as a result is easily swayed in favor of the “louder” sonic result. That’s why output level matching from the speakers is critical in such A/B product comparisons.
I use a stand alone dB meter to compare SPL. In this example I'm comparing amp output at a certain voltage on the input.
The JR 125 (Jeff Rowland) $3500? is a much better value and build Quality! than the new AGD Digital Amp at $5395? I know the JR 125 utilizes‘s (2) Lundahl Output transformers! they sell for $109.25 each in Euro’s. The AGD Tempo does not use Lundahls! AGD’s Picture on their website with a ballet dancers ankle and hands
AGD has more purity and dynamics, which are something I value greatly especially since the sound is slightly "dirty" on the Rowland's side. But I get whay you're saying especially since you listen a lot to classic rock.
Personally, I think the $3800 SCL 7511MK4 betters both, as long as you don't need spec wanks (Quasi-Current drive like tubes, so those 25 watts are some very high amperage watts).
Also, class D vs high quality Class AB. There aren't many very good Class D amps out there. Maybe SPEC from Japan. But I think you need a very sophisticated circuit including clocks and transformers to get class D to fully enter the world stage.
LOL, I agree with RJ, I believe you may have gotten confused. Follow my time code in the description and read my "what to listen for " list..
I think you are confusing the two amps. Mike played the JRD Model 125s first. The AGDs went second. I think you switched these two in your mind or lost track of which amps you were hearing.
Listening to both on headphones and I can't hear too much of a difference. Rowland may sound a smidge richer, but I may be imagining it. In this instance it would come down to price for me.
Read my "what to listen for" list ...
Definitely the YT AAC 256 compresses the differences, so no wonder it's difficult to hear. It is crippling. All we need is more ear training. It's possible that practicing with CZcams demos might be like running with weights in muddy water, but I imagine that when one gets into the clear open air at the track with their track shoes (demo cd's, knowing how their choice tracks sound on various rigs and in different room, etc.), they'll do well enough. We work with what we got.
Of course Mikey points the way. For me, today, I picked different elements in the music to pay attention to and I repeated the selection over and over until what Mikey said is what I heard clearly. How much clearly is an individual thing, but in any case we gotta increase the reps I if we want to be fit. I gave an hour to this video because it brought results (a little, but nevertheless) I'm a novice, so add a few grains, but having been an athlete I understand the power of minutia in training. One thing I do I listen to sounds in these five areas (there are more), sticking to the same aspect as I move between the tracks. Then I pick the next aspect and repeat. I don't see how it works any other way:
- time domain (how does the instrument fill the recording space; can you hear the space? Can you hear the decay of the note/instrument? Try it with Flight of the Cosmic Hippo and just compare the banjo between the two amps. Then pay attention to the bass. Can you hear the bass in the room like you can with the banjo? Then, if you feel ready, see if you can grasp the bass and the banjo simultaneously). It's easy with Mikes room because isn't an anechoic chamber - so you can catch its flavour)
- dynamics
- frequency response
- imaging & soundstage
- apply all of the above between all your sources. So listen to the YT video through wired headphones from your cellphone. Then listen to the video with the same headphones but from another source, like your headphone amp/dac/receiver. Then play the track outside of the video, such as from Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon Music, Spotify, or the CD if you have it. This is exercise in minutia. The best ears have creative brains, normal hearing and money in the bank to help them develop.
Does Rowland do a an INT of this design?
No ....
AGD Tempo is basically a pair of AGD Audions in a simpler case no? And the Audions were THE amplifiers ~2 years ago. Interesting.
LOL, Not whatsoever... Audion still is a killer amp. Think about it my friend. Monoblocks mean separate power supply for Left and Right channel as well as a larger more stout power supply per channel at that. Also, the amplifier stage is OUTSIDE the chassis which SHIELDS the power supply... Tempo has EMIssion radiating all over the board as its all enclosed into the same cavity together... Gotta think deeper bombers.... Also, doubt you either read my description or watched the vid because I give proper respect to the AGD mono designs .
@@OCDHIFiGuy I watched your review of the Audions and those are absolutely valid points you make about the differences btw the mono and Tempo. Was also reading Enjoy the Music’s extensive review of the Tempo and Audions.
No shade intended, man. Peace ✌️
From this recording it seems like the AGD has better dynamics but less detail.
I wonder if its because my mic has auto leveling and the Rowland went higher .... I watched the recording levels and Rowland had more punchy dynamic for sure... follow my time code and toggle the numbers with your mouse as I switched amps half way. also read "what to listen for "
Sweet gear.
Thanks !
Are you still a dealer for AGD?
Nope. The whole "buy it now" thing on their website killed that chance after a few of my customers told me AGD had offered them discount to buy around me, thier dealer. This is the single inexcusable "cardinal" sin between manufacturers and dealers. I still think the AGD amps are excellent amplifiers, and will keep that opinion regardless if I sell them or not, just like I promote Magnepan yet dont sell them. I do believe however, this model is a flop. Monoblocks a different story..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Your statement is false! We have always honored the price as published and we also instructed all our dealers to respect it too.
You are spreading falsehoods to cover the very reason Verastar is not an AGD dealer anymore.
The reason you are not and AGD dealer is because you made an unreasonable demand to have the exclusivity on the AGD Tempo.
A model you have been testing for months and concluded it was superior to JR and practically identical to the Audion. You also committed to sell at least 10 per quarter if AGD had agreed to the exclusivity. You also suggested to modify the position of the speakers binding posts! On top you also demanded AGD to sell you at favorable price the new amp board.
After we respectfully told you we did not agree to your requests, you insulted me personally with out of the line, unprofessional messages.
So, stop spreading falsehoods. Your campaign to slander the new AGD Tempo to help you sell the JR is pathetic and show how unprofessional you are. The cardinal sin of Verastarr is a stupid and childish revenge. Shame on you! A miserable act.
AGD Blew away the Roland
Piano, detail, small detail, Voice Like a Tyson Spinks fight. I don't know any price.
I'll have to Call AGD TO see where I can buy one. Maybe in Chicago April. 16th.??
Damn, I read a few comments
I'm still sticking to my guns
Call ME to buy one ... lol. Holy crap don't dis me after all I do for you guys !!! Lol... I've got some I can offer at a great price as well... holler... find my number at 11stereo.com
Jeff Rowland vs Benchmark AHB2! Jeff Rowland Mono's vs Benchmark AHB2 Mono's vs AGD Mono's ..
With all due respect, Benchmark is a brand I ignore. I dont like it. It started with thier DAC 10 years ago. AGD Monos are good amps but they decided to sell direct and kick me to the curb, so fuck them... good luck... Jeff Rowland / Lucien are good men, do respectful business with loyalty and integrity and the product speaks for itself. Ive compared Rowland to AGD on my channel and the result is different with the models Rowland Class AB is more musical sounding with more texture in the mids VS the AGD Monos and Rowland 125 beats out the AGD Tempo with more power and transparency. The AGD Tempo "Musicality" however sounds rolled off in comparison to the Rowland "Musical" which has more texture and body in the mid but retains all the top end clarity and leading edge.
Hope this is a matter of a recording and compression on YT but both setups are producing the sound that is rather unlistenable, JR slightly worst than AGD. Sorry. 😟
Not on my desk rig... Sorry that yours is that way... CZcams is not perfect for this .. you need to simply understand that and compare 2 things under shitty YT compression
Bass as deep as the pockets of the people who can afford that.
This is what I wanted to see Mike P!! Jeff Rowland clearly spanked that AGD. To me it’s not even close.
That was my feeling ...
Jeff Rowland sounds better. Class D is becoming better and better, but lets keep it real...still far from Class A.
well, depends... Which Class A with what speakers, and so on. Class D is far more clean and transparent but lacks the texture of Class A in the mid, where class A is Thick, D has zero fat.. But I understand, I am Latin man and love beautiful curvy Romanian woman better than pancake bottom American with zero curves in the middle... ;-)
Stay away from tracks with vocals. It only accents the room reflections. It's bearable with music only . Try listening to your own videos and you'll see. How much is the Rowland 125 ?
Hi Robert, what we hear here is for entertainment and educational purposes only.. Its not reliable due to too many variables. Especially on the listeners end. Rowland Model 125 is $3500, AGD is $5500
Yes, but I watched one of your older videos for the magneplanar and sub woofer setup and the vocals sounded quite good without any echoing effect. Maybe it was just a better effect in the room with dipole speakers possibly?
AAvik completely destroys both, I know I have compared them.
Great, we're happy for them. Some of my buyers only want made in U.S.A. product, so that rules Aavik out.. SEE ya.. !
The Jeff Rowland blew those air compressors away.
LOL, I get it .... ;-)
I love music that has few instruments and vocals...moto: Less is more!
Same with Audio design in my opinion !
I prefer the Rowlands...
I do as well.
rowland is more forward
for sure, but not to the point of aggressive....
They both sound wolly, veiled, ill-defined. The Percy Heath tune lacks transparency, detail and bottom end. Nothing special here. Sorry.
LOL, its CZcams for Chrissakes, whaddaya want ? use headphones first, second screw how shitty CZcams sounds simply compare 2 things under shitty conditions... the differences are still real. If one sounds more sharp, you can bet it does in real life as well.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I hear you, but I’m just telling it as I hear it. I’ve heard better, significantly better on CZcams. Maybe it’s your mikes or something in the recording chain. Please don’t “ LOL”, we are in this journey together learning from each other. I’ve learned from you and I appreciate that, but I tell it as I hear it.