Finding Your Identity After Christianity
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
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When I explain my deconversion to people, I always talk about how the worst part was the extreme identity crisis I had when I realized I no longer believed. It's agonizing to make your whole identity your religion and then to leave it - Who are you? What do you believe? Will you ever relate to people again like you did to your Christian friends and family? It's also what makes it so hurtful to hear from Christians telling me that I wasn't "a real one" since I lost my faith. Like, no, I was "a real one", which is precisely why losing my faith was so traumatic.
You nailed it.
It's like PTSD, I STILL have it and have accepted I likely will for the rest of my life.
@@wefinishthisnow3883 it does get better friend. I found that accepting some aspects of my old faith while rejecting dogma has helped me immensely. For example, I no longer go to church, but I still quietly celebrate holidays like Christmas and Easter in a way that's personal to me. I no longer study the bible, but I try to find passages and stories that are comforting or that I can reinterpret, such as Jesus taking solidarity with the poor or David and Jonathan's relationship being homoerotic (my family hates that one lol). Basically I just reclaim Christianity for myself without subscribing to any church or doctrine. It's not "real" Christianity in that I don't believe in God or the divinity of Jesus, but I don't need to explain myself to anyone. I hope that this helps in some small way, and if not, best of luck with your journey ❤️
@@wefinishthisnow3883 Virtual hugs brother. Believers seem not to want you to simply enjoy THIS life so that you have to follow theirs.
May I suggest this PTSD "pill" that works for me. Every so often, when things are going well, or some issue finally gets resolved, simply stop for about 20 seconds; look around; fix on something pleasant and smile. Just stop and tell yourself to "be happy". Religion tricks people into these moments of satisfaction with music and entrancing words from a pulpit. So it is important to wean oneself off of that and take pleasure when reality is just "nice". For example smile when you start a trip you wanted to take, when you have a "perfect" shower, when someone makes you really laugh. That is real, not some death on a cross, not some story about a flood, not some eternal pretend timeshare you sold your mind for by mumbling a prayer. You are free from the preachers now. Smile.
I know this all too well……
Whenever I get frustrated with myself for not being (in my life) where I want to be, I just remind myself, "If nothing else, you escaped a cult, your abusive family, your abusive husband, toxic friends, and you discovered who you are and what you truly believe. If nothing else, you've done that."
That's more than thousands of people have done! I'm proud of you stranger
Wow, thanks for that perspective!
Now that's something worth preaching! 👏
@@allisonpinkall577 thank you 💜
@@Mouse_007 you're welcome 😊
A big part of my deconstruction was how uncomfortable I was with the idea that people who feel "same-sex attraction" have to spend the rest of their lives alone and celebate while straight people are encouraged to get married, have sex and make as many babies as possible. A God with that kind of double-standard is an asshole. No thanks.
I knew someone who forced her gay friend to be celibate and alone… she’s a bonafide asshole.
Oof yeah that was one of the big things I really didn't understand and had a problem with. It was all love and consensual and they(we, as I realized later lol) grew up just like everyone else so how could it be sinful/bad, why would they not be allowed to love someone else while everybody else could, and why would they go to hell for that???
I was so loyal to the Catholic Church for so long that I twisted myself into knots to justify my homophobia and opposition to marriage equality so I used the "same-sex attraction" term when talking about the LGBT+ community, ultimately all my arguments would've boiled down to "because the Church said so" had you asked me why back then.
Granted I was a borderline fascist at one point so I guess I was following that asshole god almost without any questioning and of course I didn't think through on why should I worship a guy who commanded genocide several times in the Bible and is supposed to have drowned everyone except a family with a boat (if you take the Noah story literally, I thought it was more of a metaphor but some of my church friends probably didn't agree to that as they turned out to be hardcore creationists).
You may have a point, but I think it is possible to have something like a gay christian.
Don't believe me, just look up a man by the name of Greogry Coles.
Christianity is all about interpretation
That's what makes it so venomous, in a lot of cases
Hell, it's even what led me to find my way, was my own interpretation of Christianity
"Don't hold onto your earthly fortunes and identity" says millionaire "Christian" who's earthly success is built around their personal brand.
I do have to wonder how there can be millionaire/billionaire Christians. Didn't Jesus tell the rich young ruler to sell all he had, give it to the poor, and follow Christ?
@Mark Evans Jesus was a revolutionary. Mordern evangs seem to think he was a reactionary devoted to keeping all power in the hands of the strictest pharisees.
@@nohjuan3048 Abraham was the best example of a wealthy Christian. Never sought wealth. Never let it define him. And no question if God commanded him to give it away, he would have done so. But God asked for more from him than his money. And the reason he asked for ALL of the money from the rich young ruler was because that money meant more to the young ruler than God did. For a huge percentage of rich people, including MANY preachers, money means more than God to them. But it was clear that money didn't mean so much to Billy Graham.
@Mark Evans I'm AMAZED that the church doesn't teach more against fornication since that is EXTREMELY prevalent in our current society and condemned MANY times in both the old and new testaments.
@@theboombody Well, maybe Deuteronomy 21:13 skirted the line of that, somewhat.
And Numbers 31:18, by implication. I'm sure some 'marriage' was implied, though.
"...you're going to think you're free, but the culture's actually telling you who to be."
Yeah, I used to belong to a culture like that. It was called Christianity.
faxxxxxxxxxxx 📠
They spend so much time telling their people what to believe that they can't fathom that humans can sort their own beliefs out internally.
I can take bits and pieces from the culture. I even took bits and pieces from Christianity. I'm aware of what it looks like and feels like to have beliefs inserted into my personhood that I don't actually believe and agree with myself. It's really not a big deal.
They can't see the world as a giant group of individuals working together and existing and making their own impact on each other. They can only fathom those at the top dictating what everyone else thinks and believes because that's their life.
The idea that “the only identity you need is in Christ” is a big part of what started my deconstruction. I knew that something was missing from my sense of self (turns out I’m trans) and the only thing my mentors from church would say when I asked for advice dealing with an identity crisis is “the only identity you need is that you’re a child of god”. I started realizing how messed up that was pretty soon after.
Oh, hey! Same!
I mean, not exactly, but when I was questioning I was literally told "you can't trust yourself (heart is deceitful etc.), so you should let someone else tell you who you are."
It was not reassuring.
I wouldn't credit gender entirely for my deconversion, but it certainly made the process messier.
I mean... I get what they're TRYING to say. I used to get the same line from my parents all the time when I was feeling down about myself. They meant to boost my confidence and sense of self-worth by reminding me "you're special in the eyes of the infinite, all-powerful Creator, no matter what". It was their way of affirming all people have intrinsic value. BUT, that alone does not suffice; in other words, it isn't "all you need" in a literal sense. Following someone's teachings cannot define who you are.
I have some similarities in my story. Definitely can relate.
"More Atheists need to run for Office, especially now when unhealthy Christians
and Quanon-Endorsers literally say they will '''flood the Office'''. Please let me Explain why."
-Telltale Atheist,
who i ask you to hear out.
Yeah no. Never base your identity and self worth on another person. Even if that person is a god.
The Church: You should be loving
Also the Church: Dont be gay
The Church: You should love everyone
Also the Church: Expect the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Agnostics the Atheists.. Actually, everyone isn't a Christian.
@@lonewolfgamingplus379 Science-Denial rampages, and so does Trumpism. No wonder then that CZcamsr Telltale says 'We need more people to run in Office who have a healthy Respect for Science and Atheism. Here, let me provide Help if you decide to down-below.'
Also the church: *literally integrates nazi ideology*
The church should have said don't be promiscuous. The Bible says that a lot, and probably a lot of church members are.
The church : Be loving and accepting
Also the church : Noooo, not like that do *insert very hateful and unaccepting thing here*
Oh my goodie gumdrops, you're ace? It was the realization that I was ace that started me down the road to questioning Christianity (SDA denomination). As I turned 25 people kept asking me when I was going to find a god-fearing husband to have kids for, and my gut reaction was always "hold up, isn't being a virgin a good thing?" Turns out that's only the case if you're straight and in your early 20's, otherwise something's wrong with you. I've had people in the church full on scream at me because I was denying god's greatest gift to women, motherhood. New flash cupcakes, as a sex-repulsed asexual, I'm not going to be filling your house with future tithers.
I only just made the decision 2 weeks ago that I can no longer be Christian, and your channel has been a major asset in helping me see through the brainwashing. Now I just need to work through the identity crisis, self-doubt, and the fear of hell. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Oh hey! Another fellow Ace! **waves**
And you just started deconverting? Best of luck! If it's a hard break, the early part is the hardest. But things WILL get better for you. :)
@@AegixDrakan *waves back, offers garlic bread* I'm actually doing better already, I have a natural love of the unknown and I've quickly learned that the phrase "I don't know" isn't a flaw, it's a celebration. It means that there's something else to discover and learn, which is amazing. I still feel guilty sometimes, but I recognize that that's only natural after a lifetime of brainwashing and being told not to question anything, much less the validity of a 2000 year old, highly edited, conglomerate book. I wish you well!
I’m not ace, but I was always iffy about having children, and that was one of the first things that really drove a wedge between me and my faith. I was Catholic, and you’re told your options as a woman are to become a nun or get married-and marriage contracts you to have as many kids as “God blesses you with.” Maybe it was because my raised-Methodist mom put a hard limit on 2 kids, and that only seemed sensible to me, or maybe I was just really annoyed that I only had 2 acceptable life paths for being a Catholic woman, like my life and works would be less meaningful if I didn’t do one of those things. Either way, it was a no from me, dog.
"More Atheists need to run for Office, especially now when unhealthy Christians
and Quanon-Endorsers literally say they will '''flood the Office'''. Please let me Explain why."
-Telltale Atheist,
who i ask you to hear out.
I'm also a deconverted ace, and this was also a big thing for me. I thought my asexuality was a holy/good thing and it was how I justified it to myself. But the anger it inspired in people made me realise this was not the space for me. People finding out I don't want to marry at 20 : sure no prob, but saying I don't want to marry ever? Holly hell no. And god forbid I tell them I don't want kids. Asexuality is only acceptable if you're a nun. But I don't want to give up my life's pursuits just because I don't want a man.
I was at my baby sister's highschool graduation a few weeks back, and they had a preacher give the commencement speech. He said something that utterly pissed me off. He turns and looks at those kids, and says "You do not need to have dreams or goals, because God has them already planned out for you."
WHAT. THE. HELL.
I'd be shocked if that didn't piss off any of the graduating high schoolers
I loved that you included the thing about left-handedness. Don't forget that the word sinister literally means left-handed.
Southpaw atheist here, who has always been a distinctly sinistral character...😉 Seriously, though: I don't think I ever took the God lie seriously from early childhood, not least because my mother gave the game away by aligning religious practice mostly with matters of superficial appearance: "Nice People"™️ believe in God, go to church, etc. -- and being the neuroatypical smart kid that I was, I saw through her charade (she was "Nice," but in no way good, kind or particularly moral) and paid it lip service until I was safely out from under her control. Nonetheless, i feel for those who deconverted and lost a cherished cornerstone of their identities, and stand with all who seek their truth.
Yep. Sinister is Latin for "left", dexter for "right".
@@semperfi818 Same story here. My mother basically equated asceticism to Christianity. You're "living for the Lord" if you're going to church, and avoiding anything remotely fun, and that's basically it. Does she help the poor like Jesus said? Fuck no. She grips her purse tighter and looks the other way, complaining about how if they just worked harder they'd be fine, meanwhile she's had her finances taken care of her entire life and has no clue what kind of wage/cost of living situation most people are in nowadays.
Most of the Christians I've ever met are just "pseudo-nice" until they've gotten whatever transactional thing out of you.
"More Atheists need to run for Office, especially now when unhealthy Christians
and Quanon-Endorsers literally say they will '''flood the Office'''. Please let me Explain why."
-Telltale Atheist,
who i ask you to hear out.
Left handed agnostic since birth 🫡. Mom (atheist) raised my family without any religious practice, since she grew up Christian and didn’t want us to go through the strictness and the “non answers” that Christian’s would give her when she deeply questioned what she was teaching.
Your story about the woman who scolded you for saying "damn" instead of helping you reminded me a time, many years ago, when I went with a partner to an abortion clinic for her to terminate her pregnancy. It was an icy February morning and despite my holding her hand and us walking slowly, she slipped on some ice and fell...right in front of an anti-abortion zealot. Said zealot stopped rambling for a moment and, instead of rushing to help an injured pregnant woman, simply stood there and stared while myself and another friend struggled to get her back up. There is nothing good about a religion that makes you suppress your natural desire to help others in distress.
Uh, clarification for Mr. Keller: A thousand years ago, Anglo-Saxon Britain (Soon to be Norman Britain) was not a Shamanic culture, it was a rigorously Christian culture. Were that young Anglo-Saxon warrior type to just haul off and kill someone, he was likely to answer to both the secular and religious authorities. If he had sufficient social rank, he was immune to prosecution. And, let's not forget, insofar as those 'aggressive impulses' with which your work-a-day Anglo-Saxon warrior was contending, Christianity just took those violent urges and shipped them off to the Holy Land, where they were unleashed on Muslims and Jews.
Hey, Mr. Keller, crack open a history book sometime, huh?
On target! Christians have been weaponing violent urges for a very long time...
And if he did commit a killing, the penalty was likely a cash payment rather than capital punishment, with all members of society having a wergild value. Harsher penalties, including capital punishment were generally reserved for crimes against entire communities e.g. rustling their whole cattle herd, so hardly the lawless aggressive culture he assumes.
The effects of the "lefties are of the devil" thing were horrible. My father was a left handed person. When he was a little boy in the 1920's, he was consistently punished for writing with his left hand. He immediately developed a stutter even though he had no prior speech impediment. He was seen by specialists. One suggested he learn how to play the harmonica to help with "breath control and strengthen his speaking muscles: (cough, cough...bullshit, cough). His stutter persisted. He was given special vocal exercises. His stutter persisted. He was given singing lessons. He continued to stutter (and sing off key- he could never carry a tune!) And while all this was going on, anytime he used his left hand to write, draw, etc. he would be chastised and sometimes even struck for the "offense".
Finally his parents and teachers gave up on trying to "cure" this poor little boy from his "dreadful and wicked" left handedness and let him be a leftie. His stutter vanished, never to return.
Now there have been many accounts of kids who began to stutter when their natural left handedness was constrained. It is not always the case, but it certainly has occurred with enough frequency that proposals for studies are occasionally trotted out in academia to determine if left handed people are "more prone to stutter".
i know im late but i kinda wanna see if restraining someones dominat hand can cause a stutter or if its physical/verbal abuse
It's all fear. He's different so he's from the devil, fear him, punish him.
I grew up in a (comparatively mild) Southern Baptist church. And every month when it came around, I took the communion. Because I didn't want to be glared at by my parents, and have them shout at me or beat me when I was home for not being a Christian. Imagine how I felt being attracted to men. If I was afraid to not do something as noncommittal as eating a piece of pie crust, how would I feel telling them I was attracted to the same gender as me? I grew up terrified. I didn't come out as bisexual until I was strong enough to overpower both of them, should they attempt violence. I didn't have to, but still. Putting your child into a religion and disallowing them from just being themselves is more of a sin than most things described in the Bible.
I've deconversed in my Christian home, and I've honestly never had so much opposition. I still have to go to church, and I still have to pretend around most of my family. But now, my talents are my own. My life is my own. My identity is my own. And I've never been happier being my own person.
Similar story, apart from going to church I was also forced to attend home daily devotions, I just rebelled, the new found freedom is worth far more than the comfort of conformity
we are what is around us, there is no identity of our own or perhaps you can mention something that does not come from other places
Walking away from Christianity was such a headtrip for me. Even before I realized I was trans. There were times when I would find myself halfway thru a prayer...and then have to pause for a few seconds as my brain finally realized what I was doing. Things that felt so normal, because I spent the last 25 years doing them like they were breathing, were suddenly just not there anymore. I had to learn how to actually interact with problems. How to process grief. How to comfort someone without pithy one-liners. I was happy, truly happy, to be away from Christianity...but it was like realizing I barely knew myself. I had to figure out what music I liked, what I liked to wear, what my favorite curse words were. It was like trying to cram the whole "growing up" experience into a few short years.
And then it finally clicked that I was a guy not a girl and oh boy did that make things a lot more interesting. I'm kinda glad I never figured out how queer I was while still Christian, because I really didn't need more issues than already had, but I will always mourn the years I lost trying to be that perfect Christian daughter...only to fail over and over.
'I'm kinda glad I never figured out how queer I was while still Christian'
Big mood.
Yay for figuring out you are a guy and good luck with your journey forward!
I can completely relate to having to cramming all my growing up into a few years after deconverting. It's a traumatic realization to find that you actually despise the person you grew up as, but the worst part for me at least was the realization that I had no idea who I actually was. Only in the last year or so have I started figuring it out, but I still have moments constantly where I look at myself and am like who the fuck am I. I feel like I've lost years off my youth wasting my time being a person I was told to be instead of figuring out who I actually am and often feel behind my peers in confidence, identity, etc and feel like I'm playing catch-up. Very annoying. Thanks for sharing, just wanted to let you know I can relate and am glad you've found a version of yourself you're comfortable and confident with.
I remember sort of struggling with identity after realizing I no longer believed in religion. Whether making my whole identity based off being queer, or being a zodiac sign, or being apart of any fandom. And the more I stayed in those spaces, the more it felt... questionable. I dislike it when people make one thing their entire personality or try to box in others with rigid categories. People are complex and fascinating, and I'm just me.
I really relate to this. I think once I left christianity I realized I hated putting myself into any category. Same as you, I am just me.
That last sentence especially, nailed it right on the head
If this was Reddit, I would give you an award. You were spot on
That last sentence holds a sentiment that I’ve also found very powerful. There’s a lyric in John Prine’s “Dear Abby” that gets repeated in the chorus:
You are what you are
And you ain’t what you ain’t
And whenever I hear it I think about how glad I am to be a little more “me” now.
So many people now a days (probably always) try so hard to change they're appearance, how to be address or integrate their ideals as they're personality when really that's just the surface level of who they might be. Never who they truly are.
One of the few things a Bible College prof said that stuck with me was a (possibly fictional) anecdote about a preacher who said to his congregation, "We have two problems in the Church: millions of people are going to be damned, and most of you are more concerned that I said, 'damned.'"
Darned to heck
Reminds me when I was ranting on facebook about some horrible people who've said/advocated for/etc horrible things; I talked about how they shouldn't call themselves 'pastors' and that frankly I was surprised one of them wasn't in jail or something, how although I didn't really believe anymore, I was grateful that the church I'd grown up in at least had people in leadership that were 'good' and whatnot and how it often looked like the church just swept it all under the rug and how frustrating it was.
My mother had a little talk with me later, cautioning me about being so passionate and whatnot about it lest I draw people away from god/they see that and don't want to get to know him... completely disregarding my actual message and the horridness of the 'pastors' I was talking about. I swore a few times and got angry in my post, and that's what mattered and was important in her eyes, rather than the fact I was pointing out the dooshbags calling themselves church leaders and pastors and how 'the church' really should take a look at themselves log in their own eyes or whatever and deal with this because it's awful and hurting people.
@@pauljimerson8218 - heck is where you go when you don't believe in gosh. :P
@@roseinskyrim Sounds like indoctrination and life long conditioning to me
I love how people who insist you need to conform your entire identity around Christ will treat the things he actually just straight up told people to do, like give till it hurts, refuse retaliation, and don't judge others, are basically just soft suggestions, while the 1/10th of the stuff in the Old Testament that they acknowledge is absolute.
True, I always laugh when I go into older relatives or peoples houses who are like super rich and they have crosses on the walls and I'm like what about giving all you have to the poor? Not going to put that one on your wall next to your empty $600 vase
"Do you *feel* like Jesus?" - I think that one's actually in the DSM-5
And basically, feel human. If I remember correctly, Jesus was in despair of the upcoming events, cried in the olive gardens. I too would be in despair were I to know my earthly departure was close.
Besides that, if he was 30-ish he was most certainly married and a carpenter like Joseph. He had a midlife crisis and turned towards a religious subcult, and probably only succeeded because he was charismatic enough to gain followers.
"Feeling like Jesus" is absolutely within the dsm5 and the ICD10, but mostly, human.
It's not uncommon, I've talked to several Jesuses (not guys named Jesus lol), all schizophrenic
I realized talking to another formerly Christian friend how silly the whole "don't follow your heart thing" is. Christians don't think you should follow your heart, but follow God's laws instead. If you ask how they're certain they know God's laws or that God's laws will make them happy or that God even exists, it's because of some sort of testimony/witness they received. If you ask them how that testimony/witness manifested, it's because of a feeling they felt when learning or praying about it.
So, they are also following their hearts, just one step removed.
EXACTLY
The "Don't follow your heart" thing makes so much sense when you consider how cut off from empathy and compassion Christians can be.
They feed the poor only because "Jesus tells us to", "it's the Christian thing to do", or "It's God's will", etc. etc. They can't believe someone could want to help another person just because of compassion for them. I guess they believe all humans are inherently evil, and their hearts are wicked without God? So they cut themselves off from their own "wicked" emotions.
I often see Christians ask, in full sincerity: "But how can you know how to be moral without God's teachings?" And that strikes me as incredibly sad that they have to depend on "God" to know how to act, that they've been taught not to trust their own feelings.
I never realized the extent of my identity crisis as I deconverted throughout my teen years, but I felt like lying to my parents about deconversion was a fundamental protection I wanted to keep. Not really because I feared punishment but what they would see me as. I knew I had taken Christianity as my identity but I didn't realize just how hurtful and dysphoric it is. Thank you so much Trevor.
And then you found renewed taste in our Dear Leader Jim Pickens!
(I hope this doesnt sound like bad taste I just find it cool to find a Kevin fan here)
Ah, yeah, that bit about lying to your parents hits close to home. I'm 36. I deconverted when I was 26. My youngest brother deconverted about a year after that. Neither of us would be aware of the other's decision for some years. My youngest brother moved to DC back in 2015. He'd usually come down for Christmas every year until 2019 when he moved back to the area. He decided to come out to my parents during one of these trips. Specifically, he decided to drop this bomb as we were leaving him at the airport. My parents were devastated. When we got home we had a family meeting where my dad lectured me and my three other (adult) younger siblings about the dangers of not going to church, not reading your Bible, etc. I tuned him out because of my mom. She was crying through pretty much that entire meeting wondering how she'd fucked up so bad that one of her sons became an atheist. I made sure to tell her that it wasn't her fault as that was my brother's decision. She'd done what she could but his path was his to choose in the end. I then followed up with a bit of a long overdue diatribe about how over-churched we were growing up even for a Christian family. I love my parents and am still close with them, as are all my siblings. I enjoy being around them, but the more their religion desperately pushes its agenda of hate, conquest and oppression, the harder it gets for me to stay silent when they do something so simple as just quickly pray over a meal before eating. Right now my desire to never, ever by the reason that my mother cries is outweighing the discomfort, but the latter grows stronger by the day and I just know it's gonna be awful when it's finally forced out of me.
I deconverted two years ago but because I still live with family at age 27 for many reasons I pretend to be still Catholic to my parents, I was the last child of the family to leave so my siblings and some of my cousins know and I feel that they're on my side on this.
On the other hand I lost most of my friends as I've made most of my friendships through the Church and sometimes feel lonely AF as I know I really have to start over when it comes to relationships, it's harder to make new ones after college.
@@ryanahr2267 as someone who is in a somewhat similar situation, and whatever you choose to do, i'm rooting for you!
@@flowwy_ I really appreciate that :)
I never put together how much the evangelical narrative of being a living sacrifice preyed on and exacerbated the parentification i experienced. But seeing it framed in relation to identity formation, something that parentification also suppresses, it finally clicked. Thank you for making this content
Im constantly amazed how you find all these fitting clip from a wide variety of sources, cut them all together and compile a script within such a short time. And then the videos are like 30 minutes long. How the hell do you do it?
It's that post Christianity movie binge effect, lol.
For real though, I was raised in a culture bubble, big time, no secular music, no movies "worse" than PG, and everything had to be screened first for unbiblical content. Most TV was unacceptable. No books that didn't meet my parents approval.
After I broke free from all of that (well, still am, it takes a lifetime), I've gone absolutely nuts on music, movies, books, TV series, everything, haha.
That part though! I so agree!!!
I'm always so impressed! Love these videos.
Renew makes me think of rebirth too. Having “the mind/trust of a child” is seen as a good thing. Ummm… adults have to protect children and teach them to develop properly. So it’s seen as a good thing to let church leaders control your thoughts and decisions, even as an adult. To not grow and learn new things, but relearn the same things again, to continually revert to a childlike ignorance. Wow.
1 Cor 14:20 "Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults."
Exactly. It took me a long time to realize that a big piece of the damage my parents did to me stemmed from their own child-like state of trusting everything the church and fox news (to them, God's news station) said. They never really learned to manage their emotions or think critically because they were taught "spiritual shortcuts" instead of actual personal growth. They ended up lashing out at and neglecting me and my siblings because on the inside they weren't much more than children themselves.
@Alias Fakename "More Atheists need to run for Office, especially now when unhealthy Christians
and Quanon-Endorsers literally say they will '''flood the Office'''. Please let me Explain why."
-Telltale Atheist,
who i ask you to hear out.
@@smitty121981 Well, i’d say forced indoctrination and the literal hundreds of wars caused by religion sounds pretty “evil” to me, and they do seem blind to it xD
@@dryfox11 i think you missed the point....
I would love to see a video on asexuality and the church, I think it’s something that isn’t talked about as much and I’d love to learn more and hear your perspective on it
Same!! In my experience, it was very polarizing - you were expected to not feel 'temptation'; but when you were firm in your lack of attraction, they kind of shamed you for it? 'It's human nature, it's God's ideal for you!' Like they couldn't decide....
Being a gay/bi romantically attracted ace person especially confuses conservative churches! They want to talk all about how they don't condone your "lifestyle", and it falls apart -fast-.
This! It's such a weird double standard that they make all this fuss about no sex, but then expect everyone to go and have kids. Also, a lot of Christians seem to be weirdly opposed to asexuality, as if we have a cheat code to bypass the sin of sexual temptation loll
I'm a huge fan of asexuality.
As a queer/bi woman, these semantics are nuts! I’m attracted to both men and women and dare them both. Love them both. What an ass, and the worst part is that most of these that are so focused on others sexuality are most likely questioning their own.
Not gonna lie, 5 minutes into this and I’m already sobbing.. I’ve known who I am since I was little, 8-9 years old,.. but my family’s evangelical ideology has trapped me in 27.. I only started exploring myself when I was 23… 4 years later and my “hero’s journey” is more like a slog in the trenches.. and even being an adult my family still doesn’t accept me..
Are they really family then? Sometime you need to take people out of your life or groups of people you wouldn’t let a malignant tumour just sit around would you? Of course not you want to get that shit off as soon as possible
Honestly, I think the freedom to self-identify is one of the core differences between conservatism, religion, fascism, Etc and basically any other ideology.
Under these ideologies, tradition is what defines your identity, and the fact that they're so focused on a hierarchy, either to a leader or a god, means that if they can shape the tradition, they can shape you.
It's why they have such strong reactions to people who simply live their life as their true selves, because not only is it a threat to their power when their congregation sees people who they label as sinners/degenerates living happy fulfilling lives, but it's a threat to their power because they can't be controlled as easily.
To add up to that if unbelievers can be happy and authentic without Jesus and the Christian God then that might make some wonder what do they need Christianity for in the first place.
In my case Augustine was used to argue that the Christian God could be the only thing that could give us happiness (and it's the same guy who said that babies who aren't baptized go straight to hell as I later found out) and it's one more reason for me to dislike that guy nowadays, in my experience some use that to say that unbelievers don't have "true" happiness or that they certainly won't be happy on the next life.
@@monus782 also makes you wonder how much of that "you can only be happy in Christ" talk is just fear-based projection. "If this is as happy as it gets under Christ and I'm having to work really hard to project a happy face, I can't imagine how much shittier it gets if you don't have Christ and you just feel guilty all the time! Look at how happy secular people look doing all the things I wish I could be doing! They must be pretending even harder!"
@@SashaRomeroMusic When my faith was falling apart whenever I saw anyone criticize the Procrustean and strict sexual norms I followed I just thought of them as hedonistic atheists, how ironic that turned out to be as those critics were right all along and I ended up joining the “hedonism” in the end (especially after realizing that all the repression I went through most of my life was all based on lies and I was too loyal to the damned church to see that earlier).
As traumatic my deconversion turned out to be my only regret is that I didn’t do it earlier, again I wouldn’t have suppressed my sexuality through years of shame for nothing and maybe I’d have done some better choices in my high school and college years. For some “life without God is meaningless and miserable” is a self fulfilling prophecy and they have to undo their way of being and their upbringing, I don’t miss the Christian god or the doctrines one bit but I sometimes reminisce about the time I had some sort of community and given purpose to follow.
I remember this being one of the most difficult things for me when I stopped believing. Thank you
"More Atheists need to run for Office, especially now when unhealthy Christians
and Quanon-Endorsers literally say they will '''flood the Office'''. Please let me Explain why."
-Telltale Atheist,
who i ask you to hear out.
Imagine what the world would be if every child was taught that they were just fine being who they are.
That is why these people went after Mr. Rogers. He was a ''true'' christian and he made them look bad by being nice.
@@CristianMartinez-hg6xu He put every Christian to shame with his love and acceptance of people
It is better than the alternative, but the 'youre perfect how you are' thing always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. It is important that people respect themselves, but it is equally important, perhaps even more important, that people take an honest assessment of their flaws and attempt to fix them. 'your perfect' encourages people to either ignore their flaws, or worse, revel in them without ever trying to move past them.
@@CristianMartinez-hg6xuand that’s why a lot of people including myself look up to mr rogers iam an atheist but to me mr rogers was the ideal Christian
Absolutely horrendous, honestly. A myopic world centered around our own self actualization... just take 30 seconds and work it out yourself. Please.
I found you recently, and I love what you do here. I started moving away from the Catholic church in my 20's, and finally realised that I'm a athiest about 5 years ago, when I was 56, It was a long journey for me. I'm just happy my kids don't have to take the same journey. I raised them to question everything especially religion.
Well done you. I'm still trying to oust all the little ways that catholicism has infected my thinking. Hope you're having a great day.
I left that church at age 24 and I think the only reason why my faith collapsed is that all the cognitive dissonance and rationalizations weren't convincing anymore, I tried to make it work until the very end I just couldn't.
It wasn't until a couple of months ago when I also realized I may be an atheist as the idea of a creator god was so ingrained into my mind for so long, turns out it wasn't that hard to let go of that idea since my faith in any theistic religion was long gone by then.
Hope your kids don't ever have to walk the road many of us had to go through after leaving our faiths, I'm sometimes envious of younger generations as they're becoming more secular and are less likely to have the upbringing I had (it wasn't awful in any way but I feel that I wouldn't have gone through my fundie phase had we been raised with a bit less religion).
Becoming free after years of slavery to the judgmental, over demanding, punishing Christian god was both wonderful and terrifying. It was a long process that started with questions, some of which don't have answers. Leaving a group that claims to have all the answers and entering into the real world where unanswered questions are abundant is not for the faint of heart. If you have gotten this far you are brave, probably braver than you give yourself credit for.
Agreed. Coincidentally I got physically healthy around the same time I lost the last vestiges of my faith. Faith is a crutch for living in a world full of the unknown.
My deconversion was more traumatic than I initially thought as my faith defined so much of who I was and what I was supposed to do that when it finally collapsed I felt I had nothing left to live for or look forward to, two years later I'm still trying to reconstruct my sense of identity and purpose.
However I'm doing better and just glad to be still here, despite of everything that has happened to me my only regret is that I didn't leave sooner as I probably would've made better choices in my high school and college years at the least.
Evangelical. Evangelical God. A "Christian God" would be a god attempting to be "Christ like". I'm not sure the evangelicals have anything to do with Christ.
Breaks my heart that's the only truth you'll ever know. Christians must be better.
I hope you are finally at peace, regardless ❤️
@@adrianguinn3331 no, the Christian god is the god that Christians claim exist. The Muslim god would be the god Muslims claim to exist, just as there are Greek gods and Persian gods and so on. Don't act dense unless you want to be seen as stupid.
Are you so indoctrinated you don't realize there are thousands of claims of the supernatural all which have just as much merit as the one's Christians make?
I'm seriously asking, do you think you have any more evidence for your god than anyone else who has ever imagined one?
If so, please present it so we all can be astonished.
I always say that leaving evangelical Christianity was like being a young teenager all over again. You are having to start from square one to find out who you are, what you truly like, what you want to be, and what motivates you. You go through “phases” as an adult that most people went through when they were 14. I’m almost 30 and just recently have come to terms with my identity as a queer trans masculine person.
If you lived in my country it would be impossible for you to be trans, these things are not common here, you are what your society around you is
JHP breaks my heart bc she’s admitted in interviews that she’s essentially still lesbian but she says her love for god causes her to “override” those feelings. Smh
Let her be with God... We don't need no more broken people trying to be in relationships
I think she should follow her heart
Not in the religious way
@@KnowledgeSeeker78491 Well, she is married and have 5 children, I hope all of her children are straight.
I knew it! I remember her promo video for her book where you see her and her husband and she looked miserable but a martyr-like misery. She didn’t look attracted to him at all. At some point she said something like, not all same-sex attracted Christians are given the grace to pursue heterosexual marriage but she believes she was given that grace. She didn’t seem thrilled to say that. She looked sombre, like she’s carrying a heavy burden for a good reason.
I find her enraging but still pitiful. She’s using the balm of church to alleviate her traumas rather than giving them proper analysis. She’s burying who she is and her pain for a “greater good” that prefers performing perfection than dealing with pain, as it is. And now leading other queer people down that martyr like path.
All my life, I was caught up in religious platitudes.
I was yelled at by my Grandma to go up there and "take the communion".
And forced to go to Awana Classes after school by my mom.
I was pushed to believe in Trump, to burn my heavy metal/punk CDs and pushed into molds....even forced to move in with a girl at 20 years old who had two kids and was a emotional car wreck and bi-polar and cheater.
I am gladly unconvinced and unpunished by God at 38----but, now I have s 3-year old and I am trying not to push ANY God™ on her or force her to talk to God or anyone.
But, my fíancé on the other hand.... Yipes.
Does the battle ever end?
Don't let your fiancée force misinformational cult indoctrination propoganda on to your child
In my early late teens (the 90s) I was super into collecting those keychains with snarky sayings on them.
I had a "normal" set i clipped off when I picked up my fundy grandmother who helped raise me. One of the keychains on there said "why be normal when you can be yourself". She sat reading it for a few minutes and just said "I don't get it".
That's pretty much church individuality for you.
This reminds me of "Catholic in the Morning, Satanist at Night" by Powerwolf. Specifically, it reminds me of the part at the end where the protagonist of the song realizes that they don't have to just pick between being "Catholic" or "Satanist", they can just be a metalhead. Or, if we look more into it, they can just be who they are.
Yes dude! I love Powerwolf. Their image is really awesome. Werewolves in Catholic priest outfits is such a unique thing.
As a Christian I was ALWAYS filled with this low grade like all over guilt that just simmered all the time, whenever I did anything that wasn't "Christian-like" or if I sinned too much I'd be convinced that it meant I wasn't a true believer so I'd be sobbing and rededicating my life to Christ and asking him to show me how to believe correctly and serve him just incase I wasn't doing it before. It was so exhausting
same...
The rededications were so heavy. It was never close to enough; they never worked how I needed them to, no matter how hard I tried.
Same.....
Oh good goooods, I felt that. :(
The guilt over even the tiniest offenses or even "bad thoughts" was paralyzing and traumatizing to me. And I was lucky enough to grow up in a *very* mild catholic church and family. If I'd had the misfortune to be born in the bible belt, I likely would not have survived. :(
Exactly why I left church. I feel free finding myself and being honest how I actually feel about God and Jesus. How I feel about the church in whole. I don't ever want to put on blinders ever again.
Hey man, I want you to know that recovering from my Catholic faith has been absolutely devastating my emotional health lately. Your channel inspired me to seek support, bc I love the evangelical viewpoint, but it’s not relatable at times. I found a small Facebook group of ex devout Catholics and the community is wonderful for me. I really needed it, and sharing your videos there is helping a lot of other people too. I started my own support group for people in my local area, some of whom I remember developing my commitment to god alongside with. Words can’t describe the good you do to this world. The peace you bring to people who have been told their whole life that their is nothing but despair outside of believing in god, can’t be summarized. Thank you, so much, truly, for what you do.
I remember that, when I realized I was an Atheist, people didn’t make much of a fuss about it nor did they shun me. I guess it is because in Greece, there isn’t such a stigma attached to Atheists like parts of Canada and the USA.
The british sent their equivalents of church karens to the amercas
6:34 "Otherwise, you're gonna think you're free but the culture's actually telling you who to be," he says after saying to let the bible tell you who to be, which I'm sure is a much more freeing alternative.
Right, the irony and the gall. "Don't let culture tell you who to be, that's MY-- er, I mean-- GOD'S job." Everything you've ever heard was "God" speaking was just humans telling you that it was God.
Yeah - the religion wants you to swap one arbitrary standard with another.
Identity in Christ is one of the most depressing and suffocating ideas. I destroyed who I was for it. And the whole time I was trying to find my identity in Christ the more I hated who I was becoming.
Too lose your identity...that's what it is to be a slave.....
I'm thankful that even before deconstruction started I had my own personality outside of religion, which may have made it that much easier for me to analyze what was religion and what was me.
"More Atheists need to run for Office, especially now when unhealthy Christians
and Quanon-Endorsers literally say they will '''flood the Office'''. Please let me Explain why."
-Telltale Atheist,
who i ask you to hear out.
I also was lucky in that respect
"the holy spirit's job is to not allow you to feel peace or joy when your heart is not right" plus an anxiety disorder equals never feeling "right." I never felt true peace until I left Christianity.
Same. Just hearing these preachers makes my heart rate bump up and I start going into fight or flight.
Pastor: the thing about Jesus is, those who meet him, change
My brain: Jesus is radioactive and will mutate you.
Jesus. Jesus never changes.
None of them have ever met Jesus.
@@theautisticguitarist7560truth is, the game was rigged from the start
My father is a zealous evangelical and growing up he had a Christian website that he would use to determine if the games that I played or the movies that I watched or the music that I listened to was in line with the Christian doctrine. Basically if it wasn’t veggietales it was almost certainly not allowed. I grew up being told to fear and distrust anything created outside of the Bible because it was of the world and therefore satanic. Even to this day I have a hard time relating to people my age because I missed out on a lot of shared experiences in contemporary culture, art music games etc. In some ways being able to experience those things now as an adult is a treasure trove of great stuff that I genuinely enjoy now (and would have as a kid) but it’s also bittersweet because I never got to experience it when it was relevant. The flip side of that is how this late capitalist society we live in means our only identity is what we choose to spend our money on with what little free time and disposable income we have.
I had to do this and it culminated in me moving rural alabama to the bay in california. I love it and its the best journey ive ever been on.
The "renewing of the mind" is the religious way of saying "brain-washing". I had never heard it put that way before. And it is so true... Thank you for making these videos.
This video makes me glad I had non practicing Christians as parents when I was a child and I was already an adult when they decided to actually start practicing , it would be awful to believe in all those things while being a teen who dislike marriage and didn't want to reproduce and thought they were bisexual before discovering they were ace.
Seems like I was spared a lot of trauma.
Internally I always remembered things I had seen that I thought "that looks interesting..." before I would shut it away because it was "sinful" or whatever. I think because of this, when I left the faith, I knew exactly what things I wanted to try. I enjoyed discovering the real me, and I love who I became :) it's made me more relaxed and calm, and actually made me more empathetic towards others (which is the opposite of what I was taught about "being yourself")
"It's not appropriate for a Christian to locate their identity... Based on some aspect of their fallenness."
*Entire religion proceeds to be based on the idea that our identity is as fallen creatures in need of a savior*
What broke my faith is realizing that if the Fall never happened (because there's no way we all came down from two people in a garden as many churches insist we believe) then there's no Original Sin and if that's the case then Jesus died for nothing according to the traditional theology I read from, maybe this is the real reason why we have the creationist movement in the first place.
Whenever someone mentions about that Fall I'm reminded of something I heard someone say, basically it's a made up cure for a made up sickness.
This is such a huge topic. It is a uniquely evil thing to rob a child of their identity and prevent the development of critical thinking skills. I want to burn it all to the ground.
Intrusive thoughts of a Mormon boy. Every day. How to stop thinking this same imaginary dialog over and over? It's like a creepy earworm but without the music:
"You are broken. Everything about you is wrong. You are dirty and awkward. You really disgust everyone who meets you. But we can fix you."
"What can I do to make myself better?"
"Follow us. Obey us. Turn everything in your life over to us, and let us control every detail."
"What if that doesn't work?"
"Then we throw you out like the pail of garbage you are!"
The only thing that helped me was therapy - and as an American, in lucky to have good insurance. I started with CBT style, did a little ACT style. I'm MUCH nicer to myself. Good luck!
as a bisexual aromantic and an ex-mormon, the damage the term “same sex attraction” has is very real and powerful. and one thing that also stunted my self discovery both from a queer standpoint and a religious one as well is this idea that no other labels matter except that you are a child of god. when i came out to my parents (as bisexual) the first thing i was told was that this label didn’t matter and the only label that did matter was that i was a child of god. i have been told almost constantly that every other label in your life will fade at some point, whether it’s being an athlete or being single or being pretty, but that being gods child will not fade. and then that label did fade for me, and it had lasting impact in my life. more often than not the idea that i was a “child of god” ended up feeling dismissive of important parts of me and not reassuring. all labels have the power to change in your life but it doesn’t mean that you can’t find happiness in them or they can’t be a huge part of your identity.
Been deconstructing my experience with religion for about a year now and one thought I keep coming back to is, why would a god who supposedly loves us, create us to be free willed, to choose things that are not harmful to others like who we love, what we do with our time, to choose things that don’t revolve entirely around god, and then punish us for being who he created us to be? There are obviously those who choose to do terrible things that should be punished, and should be punished on earth and not just waiting for them to experience the hypothetical afterlife; but at the same time I hate how the church takes it upon itself to judge humanity for god instead of leaving it to him, saying things like “you’re sinning” or “you’re naturally evil,” punishing the people that aren’t doing terrible things for being human and ignoring the fact that the church itself is also human and in some ways, also naturally evil.
To all those who were excommunicated by their parents for doing something “sinful” or for leaving the church, your parents sinned against you and you deserve far better than what they gave you. I hope they realize their mistake someday.
This message also goes out to all the women who were kicked out of the church for having an abortion or for getting divorced, to all the queer people who were denied acceptance because they were “sinning,” to all those of different cultures/religions for being told your religion was evil, to all those facing racism from the church.
I don’t follow the belief that we are all gods, but we have been sinned against by the church. I hope everyone finds true community and safety and comes to heal from the church-inflicted wounds.
When I day it was my WHOLE identity-
My dad is a Pentecostal preacher
My mom is a music pastor and gospel recording artist
I went to Christian college on a vocal scholarship
I was a worship leader in a mega church for 9 years
I taught in a Christian school for 14 years
I was a small group leader and a “women’s ministry pastor”.
And it all came apart when I dared to peek into the rabbit hole of “faith”.
Ahh, great topic! I hear a lot of folks who feel lost after leaving their religion. I'll recommend this video to them.
OMG, that left-handed thing from American dad, I know the fucking feeling. I was born left-handed, but my grandmother apparently forced me to only use my right hand. I was too young to actually remember it. People only actually told me about it when I started martial arts training and started fighting in competitions. I always favored strikes as a natural south paw. So I started trying to use my left hand more, despite being naturally left-handed, it actually takes work to get used to using your left hand for things given you've been trained not to for years.
"Fake it so people won't think you're fake" that was my life growing up. I begged god to come into my heart and save me every sunday when the pastor asked (long after I had told people I was saved). And each week I knew I was still just me, nothing had changed. So I embraced the bible and church life, I read the whole bible, I memorized verses, I went to christian camps. I did all the church things, but it was all an act. I'm still faking it till I'm in a safe situation, but I at least know what I believe and where I stand.
I accidentally clicked out of the video to a worship video and I watched half the video waiting for your commentary 😂
Thanks for this essay David. I'm in my 50s and only now, after a decade out of religion, am I starting to find out who the person in the mirror is. Catholicism can't take all the blame here, I grew up in hell. All of the crap that was pumped into my head by the church hasn't helped on this journey. Thanks for the work that you do. Cheers.
Please do me a favor. Please evaluate a very condensed information that will take about ten minutes to read. It involves Christian belief origins that you may never heard before. I just want your opinion as a former believer, and if it makes sense. Let me know if you're willing to read it, and any critique you may have to tell me. I will post it with a simple yes.
I'm also in my 50s and been away from any religion less than 10 years. I feel you when you talked about the crap pumped into your head when young too. That is the thing that upsets me most.
i always find great solace in your videos since ive recently left the christian faith and come out as a trans woman. One of the best things anyone can do is educate themselves on problems that they have and improve on it and your channel is helping me do that
I'm also a trans woman who used to be a christian. Good luck with everything
I'm also a trans woman who used to be a christian. Good luck with everything
Good luck I'm a trans non-binary guy myself
It's so interesting how the Tim Keller clips were talking about how culture creates behavior. Like, yes! That's right. But, you do realize that religion is a PART of that equation? Look at religion from an outside view, see Christianity as not something transcendent. Then think, there's not much of a difference from the culture and religion that's affecting a society's behavior.
Yes, Christianity isn't about belief in God or the Bible, yeah, it's about "acting like Jesus". Religion, fundamentally, was a tool to create an identity and a community.
I used to think I was ace but now I know I'm bi. Christianity gave me me such a toxic view on sexuality that I rejected and suppressed all attraction (even heterosexual) to the point where I eventually stopped experiencing it. Though when I was 18 I had the idea that romantic attraction was okay but sexual attraction was bad. I decided I was gonna kiss a guy. My stepmom caught me however and proceeded to slut shame me to everyone we knew. I was so ashamed which caused me to further reject all attraction.
In 2020, I came out as ace. This was rejected as well since I have to "please my future husband and have lots of children" so my stepmom can have grandkids.
In late 2020, a life altering event occured and that event was really the beginning of my breaking away from religion. Over the course of 2021 I began to reject different things that Christianity teaches.
By the end of that year I finally decided to reject purity culture.
Since then I have been slowly repairing my relationship with sexuality and sex and now know that I am actually bisexual. I still have a long way to go and a lot of healing to do but accepting the fact that I'm bi has been a huge step.
I’m not a Christian, grew up around lazy ones, Sunday school was the babysitter. I have learned so much from this channel. I can’t thank you enough. Breakthroughs… I’m a little teary, thank you. 💖🙏🏻🤟🏻
They totally tied my left arm to my side, but only for a little while. Too much of a hassle. Lol.
"They just become cops!" Boom! Nailed it!
The "left handed = bad" mindset is definitely still around. My parents had to temporarily cut contact with my grandma because she wouldn't stop trying to get me, a lefty, to use my right hand when I was really little. She's stopped that, but I genuinely don't know if she really changed her mind or just stopped talking about it...
Ugh the whole you can't follow/trust your heart thing has always been an issue for me thanks church
This is what made me agonistic was being told I couldn't like certain video games or fantasy because witch craft.
The first thing a cult tells you...is not to trust your own experiences. every cult says this. even the scientific cult.
This is one of your best! I am in therapy for RTS. This has been an unofficial part of my therapy.
Ooh I’m early. I was born and raised atheist so I’ve never had to rebuild my identity after religion and I’m always grateful for that
You're Christopher Hitchen's secret love child?
@@bleirdo_dude no, but I was also born to an army family about an hour from where Hitchens was born, and although I don’t go quite as far as his I definitely would like to see a world without religion
@@emilybarclay8831 Are you willing to give me your opinion on a ten minute read? It may not make sense to you, but if you say "yes" I will post it.
@@bleirdo_dude go for it
@@emilybarclay8831 Jesus tricked Satan into crucifying him (The Gospel Mark is a parable set on Earth while later Gospels are doctrinal warfare then believed as history):
The pseudograph 2 Pet. 1:16 is pushback against people (likely a group of Xtians who we don't get to hear from) that are saying the Gospels are literary fabrications, and then forges an eyewitness account. Later in 2 Pet. 3:15-16 it mentions that there's things in Paul's letters that do not make sense, which is strange in light of 1 Cor. 3:2 & Heb. 5:12 in which converts are taught things easy to understand.
Paul is adamant that his Gospel is not from humans, but from scripture, and visions/dreams (Gal. 1:11-12, :15-17, Rom. 15:4, 1 Cor. 15:3-8). A secret hidden through the ages now revealed (Rom. 16:25-26, 1 Cor. 2:6-7). Also Paul says his apostleship is by the same means as the founding Pillars (Gal. 2:6-9).
Who in context of what Paul wrote would execute someone for being in human form?
Phili. 2:6-8 "6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, 7 but emptied himself (Isa. 53:12), taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, 8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death - even death on a cross."
Who would NOT kill Jesus if it was made known to them that by doing so it would fulfill God's plan for mankind to have a chance at immortality?
1 Cor. 2:6-8 "6 Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish. 7 But we speak God's wisdom, secret and hidden, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." (Note: "rulers of this age" is reciprocal with Earthly & spiritual powers to the ancient reader)
To Paul a physical resurrection does not inherit God's Kingdom (The Synoptics have a flesh resurrected Jesus).
1 Cor. 15:49 "49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the image of the man of heaven. 50 What I am saying, brothers and sisters, is this: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality."
Dirty, or impoverished clothing, and clean, or gleaming clothing were seen as metaphors for Earthly/spiritual bodies in the ancient world. (Mark 14:51-52 "A certain young man was following him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth. They caught hold of him, but he left the linen cloth and ran off naked.", 16:5 "As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man, dressed in a white robe, sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed.")
Rom. 4:25 "who was handed over to death for our trespasses and was raised for our justification." Note: 1 Cor. 11:23 "betrayed" is contextually reciprocal with "handed over" in Greek (Rom. 1:24, :26, :28).
The verse Rom. 1:3b "who was descended from David according to the flesh" (2 Sam. 7:12) is good evidence for historicity. But 2 Sam. 7:12c "who shall come forth from your body," can mean God made a flesh body from David's semen for Jesus (it was a belief that the male seed contained the whole body). This is a convenient way to fulfill messianic prophecy for a celestial event instead of on Earth.
Zec. 3:1-9 "1 Then he showed me the high priest Joshua/Jesus (Savior) standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan (Adversary) standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, O Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this man a brand plucked from the fire?" 3 Now Joshua was dressed with filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." And to him he said, "See, I have taken your guilt away from you, and I will clothe you with festal apparel." 5 And I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with the apparel; and the angel of the LORD was standing by.
6 Then the angel of the LORD assured Joshua, saying 7 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you shall rule my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you the right of access among those who are standing here. 8 Now listen, Joshua, high priest, you and your colleagues who sit before you! For they are an omen of things to come: I am going to bring my servant the Branch. 9 For on the stone that I have set before Joshua, on a single stone with seven facets, I will engrave its inscription, says the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the guilt of this land in a single day."
Zec. 6:11-13 "11 Take the silver and gold and make a crown, and set it on the head of the high priest Joshua son of Jehozadak (Savior Son of the Righteous God); 12 say to him: Thus says the LORD of hosts: Here is a man whose name is Branch: for he shall branch out in his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD. 13 It is he that shall build the temple of the LORD; he shall bear royal honor, and shall sit upon his throne and rule. There shall be a priest by his throne, with peaceful understanding between the two of them."
Rom. 15:12 "12 and again Isaiah says, "The root of Jesse shall come, the one who rises to rule the Gentiles; in him the Gentiles shall hope." (Isa. 11:10 LXX).
Isa. 11:1 "1 A shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots."
1 Cor. 15:24-26 "24 Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death."
Jos. 10:24-27 "24 When they brought the kings out to Joshua/Jesus, Joshua summoned all the Israelites, and said to the chiefs of the warriors who had gone with him, "Come near, put your feet on the necks of these kings." Then they came near and put their feet on their necks. (Psa. 110:1/1 Cor. 15:24-28, Rom. 16:20, Heb. 1:13, 2:5-9, 10:13) 25 And Joshua said to them, "Do not be afraid or dismayed; be strong and courageous; for thus the LORD will do to all the enemies against whom you fight." 26 Afterward Joshua struck them down and put them to death, and he hung them on five trees. And they hung on the trees until evening. 27 At sunset Joshua commanded, and they took them down from the trees and threw them into the cave where they had hidden themselves; they set large stones against the mouth of the cave, which remain to this very day. (Deut. 21:22-23/Gal. 3:13)"
Image of God (2 Cor. 4:4, Phili. 2:6), Agent of creation (Rom. 11:36, 1 Cor. 8:6)
Philo: THE SPECIAL LAWS, I
"XVI ...Now the image of God is the Word, by which all the world was made..."
Celestial high priest (Heb. 2:17, 4:14), God's Word (Heb. 1:3, 11:3), Firstborn son (Rom. 8:29)
Philo: ON DREAMS, THAT THEY ARE GOD-SENT
"XXXVII ...the high priest is the Divine Word, his own firstborn son."
Five Kings= Five Senses (Flesh)
Philo: ON ABRAHAM
"XLI These things, then, are what are contained in the plain words of the scriptures. But as many as are able to contemplate the facts related in them in their incorporeal and naked state, living rather in the soul than in the body, will say that of the nine kings (Gen.14:1-2) the four are the powers of the four passions which exist within us, the passion of pleasure, of desire, of fear, and of grief; and that the other five kings are the outward senses, being equal in number, the sense of sight, of hearing, of smell, of taste, and of touch. For these in some degree are sovereigns and rulers, having acquired a certain power over us, but not all to an equal extent; for the five are subordinate to the four, and are compelled to pay them taxes and tribute, such as are appointed by nature. For it is from the things which we see, or hear, or smell, or taste, or touch, that pleasures, and pains, and fears, and desires arise; as there is no one of the passions which has any power to exist of itself, if it were not supplied by the materials furnished by the outward senses."
Philo: WHO IS THE HEIR OF DIVINE THINGS
"XXXVIII ...Now, the craters of the sense of seeing are the eyes, those of hearing are the ears, those of smelling are the nostrils, and so on with the appropriate receptacles for each of the senses. On these craters the sacred word pours a portion of blood, thinking it right that the irrational part of us should become endowed with soul and vitality, ...purifying itself from the deceitful alluring powers of the objects of the outward sense which aim to overcome it."
Philo: QUESTIONS & ANSWERS ON GENESIS, III
"(51) What is the meaning of, “And it shall be my covenant (or agreement) in your flesh?” (Gen. 17:13). God is willing to do good, not only to the man who is endued with virtue, but he wishes that the Divine Word should regulate not only his soul but his body also, as if it had become its physician. And it must be its care to prune away all excesses of seeing, and hearing, and taste, and smell, and touch, and also those of the instrument of voice and articulation, and also all the redundant and pernicious impulses of the genitals, (morning cross? Rom. 7:23) as also of the whole body, the effect of which is, that at times we are delighted by our passions and at times pained by them."
Great video. For context I'm a trans woman, I left the church around when I started transitioning over a decade ago, and I'm glad of it
For anyone thinking about leaving, I want you to remember: your relationship with God is yours and yours alone. If that relationship does not meet what a church of men tells you it should be, that's between you and God. There are days I still believe and days I don't, days where the Bible brings me comfort and days where I want to throw out my copy. If Jesus and the message of goodwill towards men still speaks to you, let it. But don't let organizations of fallible people tell you what your relationship is to the divine.
I think you should leave the church and immerse yourself in modernity, leave religion, do not use religion for your benefit
A common phrase I heard in Catholic youth groups was to ask God to diminish the self in us so that he could expand in us-basically, to live and be seen by others not as oneself but as Christ. It’s taken me a long time to process how damaging this concept-along with “take captive every thought” and constant vigilance of sin-was to having any healthy sense of autonomy or self-worth. No matter how flowery the language is, the internalized message is always, “All that is naturally me must be suppressed-which means I must be bad. I don’t deserve individuality or a voice, because I should be nothing but a robot carbon-copy of Christ.”
I officially quit 2 days ago. Still not sure yet anymore about anything and I have yet to tell more than just one person but I’ll see how it goes. It sure is hard to change something that you have been taught your entire life, and I really have no idea how my parents will react when they find out eventually. Many things that I couldn’t do I probably still won’t do anyways (no bitches) but now how people will see me will probably drastically change. I never really had that many Christian friends to begin with and my parents were never restrictive anyways but it will be interesting to know what everyone thinks.
Welcome to The Rest of the World, friend! Freedom is a wonderful thing!
Yeah it can be hard. I don't know your situation but I can tell you mine. My dad respects me for it because he didn't believe in God at my age and he can relate to me being atheist, even though he is Christian now. My mom is different. She likes to think I'm just confused because she grew up in a rural town and both her parents were super religious. She invites me to church all the time and I say no. She is not angry, she just likes to ignore it. She still loves me but I know she is disappointed in me. It hurts but I get it, that's how she grew up. My brothers are both born again Christians and they tend to not care. They give me the occasional joke making fun of my atheism but it's just how we have always been. I dont get to hang out with my brother that much because he is always at the church so that sucks. It might be different for you but I like myself after I became an atheist. When I do things I know its because I have worth and that I got there by believing in my abilities, not by belief in some magical being. I would never go back on my choice. I hope it turns out well and sorry for the long reply.
@@soloalien5 I still just don’t know what is true anymore and I feel even though I have ample justification for my actions of quitting that everyone else’s feelings about me will change especially with close family. My birth was very early at 24 weeks and I was considered a miracle child at my birth and my mom has always said God let me live to do something amazing. It is true my chances at living were under 1% but the doctors were very skilled. I feel like if I told her what I believe now, I don’t know how she would feel.
@@fluffyspark798 that's a tough spot. Don't take my comment as telling you what to do. Do what you feel you should do. Just wanted to give my story.
Congrats. It's a process. You keep finding land-mines as you go. But hang in there.
PS: I'm female, left-handed, and disabled. Wow, in the old days, and even now, I'd be f*cked. Depending on which minorities are on the chopping block this decade .It rotates a bit.
"You're going to be a slave to something," so why not be a slave to God? Spare me. How do these people not hear themselves?
It's through the power of the Holy Dopamine Ghost via Placebo Faith.
@@bleirdo_dude 🤣
@@yubelwish You mock the Armor of God the Dopamine Reward System?
Your imagination may never give you salvation FEELS with this rebellion.
It's not too late. Humble yourself to nonsense... 🙏😇🧠👻🤪
I was raised with this “fake it til you make it” mentality - after being a part of the Charismatic Movement from birth for nearly two decades, I realized that I was one of those guys who never really “made it.” No matter what, I always had nagging doubts and couldn’t help but noticing all sorts of internal contradictions in the belief system and eventually just stopped pretending after I gave that ridiculous book one last chance to convince me: after reading it cover-to-cover, I realized that I couldn’t even pretend to take it seriously anymore.
If you want to find a guide for self-identity, I recommend reading Nietzsche or Camus instead of the Bible - I find their words far more relevant to my life of seeking to create my own sense of purpose and living with the absurd than a book of myths and superstitions (seriously, this book recommends curing mildew in your home with bird blood!).
Still deconstructing, and found Camus' The Stranger near the middle (so far) of the process. I've read it twice in the last six months, plan to read it at least once a year from here on out.
Holy frick, The Stranger is so good. And it's so short. Definitely recommend!
I've gotten more into Camus' philosophy as I've found absurdism appealing when it comes to the whole "meaning" thing, it's one of the leftovers from my Catholic past that I've yet to deconstruct as for the longest time I tried to follow God's will (whatever that was anyways).
camus is a very terrible author indeed
@@kst2154 Says you - and nobody else I am aware of.
@@wilberwhateley7569 reading the bible has very interesting things, camus on the other hand is an absurdist who gets nowhere, especially considering that his thought is more than 10 centuries behind the cynics
I so love listening to your essays. They're a much welcome dose of sanity in this insane world. I escaped christianity about twenty years ago, but rejecting organized religion in general only about three (and rejecting belief in god at all was only last summer.) I'm still unpacking my almost forty full years of solid belief in god, and your way of talking out things that I'm working through is so so helpful. Thank you.
It's just really disturbing how they want to replace your whole identity. This is something I didn't really get was awful until I was leaving. As I was losing my faith, I saw stuff like that and was kinda horrified.
Like, I'm trans. When it became apparent to my mother that I was questioning my gender, her advice was basically "your heart is lying to you. You should let someone else tell you who you are." I just don't see how a person can survive that. An animal or a machine, oh yes. That could, but not a proper person.
So I did leave. And yeah, I'm still shaped by the people around me, but I also have an ability to push back against them.
The soundtrack to "Be More Chill" (Two River, not the Broadway one) is my "Religious trauma soundtrack" because, more than anything else, it conveys that feeling. I don't know about another piece of media that communicates it so clearly. "Be More Chill" (the song) is so good at showing how Jeremy is worn down & broken. Then "Pitiful Children" is just ripping off the veneer of respectability on child evangelism.
It's a good musical, and those songs are really helpful for explaining what it looks like - having experienced the inside and seeing it from the outside.
13:46 Yep. I fell once, because the wheel came off a rolling chair, and the whole chair tipped onto that leg, and broke. As I landed on my face, I exclaimed “dammit!”. My mother immediately criticized me for swearing. She didn’t ask if I was ok. She exclaimed about my language. 🤦♀️ This was a few years ago now (I was in my 50’s), not when I was a kid. But it echoed so much of my childhood, where she was literally concerned about “what would the neighbors think?” rather than whether I was ok. Disturbing.
“They just become cops”
OMG I’m glad I wasn’t drinking otherwise I would’ve spit it out lolol
I'm also an asexual in the process of deconstructing I'm glad I realized it young
Amazing video you got there. You're finally covering the theme that de-converted me, so let me elaborate my testimony.
As of my experience, 5 years ago, i started to notice some creepy parts in some of the Gospel songs as i went to a new church, in which my parents would baptize themselves in. Those songs have lyrics that could be translated as "More of thou, and less of me" (I still live in Brazil, sadly).
The real discomfort truly began after noticing how much my father has changed, to become too similar to my mother's personality, as well as completely abandoning his previous musical tastes, so he "couldn't fall in sin anymore", an eerie semblance to "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers", the 1978 version. I've essentially become afraid of eventually losing my own self and never managed to find a proper answer from either my mother or the leading pastor of that church to guarantee that "god wouldn't erase my entire personality in heaven" by using the bible.
This constant lack of response is what lead me to Atheism:
- First by diving myself further into the heart of the Persona series, Shin Megami Tensei. The Law ending of the first SMT game is spot on when it goes to replicate what a normal Christian do, the Neutral ending encompasses my main issue very well and in certain games, you can kill YHVH, the God of the bible, though i love the SMT IV Apocalypse version more, with the characters giving responses to many of the problems that said god had as a deity. Wouldn't discover any of that if my best friend in the online didn't recommend me "to dive into Persona 5, completing it on hard"
- Then, came the Atheist channels, starting with Telltale (Give him a hello to me, if you would), then going to channels like yours and Suris.
- I got spotted on a private activity back in January 2021, and after arguing with her on some initial Atheist points, she said that "i had too much liberty" and "Wanna go to heaven or hell?". I had to hide everything that i was doing that could reveal my true thoughts.
- ...And finally, one day after and she shared with me a video that repulsed me once i heard the following phrase: "I was reading this versicle, and then i started to think: How many times do we admire a person and we try to be the same as it, isn't that true?", a direct attack on my best friend possibly because she knew he was Gay and she thought he was "controlling me on every aspect", which is an absurd in my perspective, as we had different tastes and opinions, and i only went to play what he liked when i also enjoyed. He respects my opinion and has a lot of sincerity, which is something that i love about him.
Since then, i'm hiding my lack of faith until the day i'll go where said best friend is, and hoping to not slip up in the process, because i know what a Christian can do to ruin lives. I cannot fail, and i must do it for him, and once i meet my goal, i'll reveal my true self to said family, regardless of their reaction.
This video was amazing as so many others, and i hope you'll keep it up and have wonderful days.
I come from a Mexican Catholic background and I still live with family for many reasons so I'm in a similar spot, just wanted to wish you the best of luck in getting out.
Good luck!
09:43
"Don't fall apart
Speak with your heart!
And always take it with you back to the start!"
lyrics from a great song about not losing your heart
Everytime you do right, it's God doing good through you. Everytime you do wrong, that's all you.
This video brought out a lot of anger about the hurt from religious trauma from growing up in a hyperconservative home and school. Giving all my summers every school day, and many school nights spreading these lies which was expected of me, and was the only way to get any validation. I had to give up my entire childhood and teenage years too one of the most anti me existences out there as a pan demi trans girl. Thank you, for making this. Thanks for the trauma Christianity.
Love the work you do. It's important. Love you.
At 24:35 he almost had it. “I can sincerely believe there’s a Santa Clause but that doesn’t make it true.”
Christ. He was so close.
Small town Alberta is where I'm from too. The struggle is real 😉
I still struggle with my identity to this day. Constantly telling someone that their life is worthless without Christ really does stuff to them
Same, although I wasn't endlessly told I was a sinner my faith defined so much of who I was and what I was supposed to do that when it finally collapsed two years ago my mental health took a huge blow as I didn't have much of an identity and purpose anymore.
Coercion!
As a fellow Canadian ace who's a former Catholic, I just wanted to add that I feel you about the getting married and having kids thing. The amount of people (even non-family members) who assume that they know what I really want and that I'll eventually change my mind is astounding. The worst one was when someone said that I should have kids anyways and "you'll love them once you meet them". JFC, I'm not going to make a whole ass human being on the tiniest chance that I might like them!
Yeah it’s like getting married just to “save the relationship”, like, seriously?
Yes! That's a human with wants, needs, and dreams, who needs a lifetime of support, care, and love - not a mini me! And I don't want a life partner, much less a child (who I couldn't properly provide for anyway, when it comes to basic material needs and money).
This video reminds me of when I was figuring out who I was. I was maybe 22/23, an active member of my church and had lots of friends through church. The church was my identity, but I also knew I was gay. I struggled to deal with this and I spoke with my pastor, and several times, I was told to pray about it. But then, he suggested my hormones were imbalanced and I should consider some sort of hormone therapy.
I'd go to these events, like Aquire The Fire, more prayer, etc. And I just stopped.
I came out in 2012 (ironically the same weekend as the Chick-fil-A protests) and some of my friends were cool, one of my friends (who was trying to become a church leader himself) talked down to me, and the church said I was going to hell and basically cast me out.
It was at that moment I just realized I am better being myself instead of what they wanted me to be... or undergoing some kind of treatment to "deal with my same-sex attraction struggle."
No real ending thought, just felt like I should share my experience in the church. Great video.
I'm currently trying to find my own identity after leaving a culty upbringing. It's so hard.
5:24 I find it sus that he specifies Anglo-Saxon
JUST before a Joyce Meyer segment, I got a youtube add for Joyce Meyer TV, and it gave me deja vu. How surreal.
I strongly identified as a Christian for the first 31 years of my life. I believed that my "life calling" was to serve God as a mission worker. The interesting thing is that the more involved I got in Christianity, the more I became a target of abuse from other Christians. During my first and only mission internship I was accused of having a "demon attached to my life" because I openly talked about my struggles with anxiety and depression. There is a lot more to that experience. But the point is that the emotional abuse I experienced is the reason I left Christianity and started seriously started to question what I believed.
I can agree that I only felt true freedom after I left Christianity. That was almost a year ago.
Less than a year after I left the church, an institution that I had spent my entire life in, I realized I was trans. I'm happier than I have ever been. I was so depressed in the church, but now I feel free, truly and happily free.
I really enjoy your content - gotten really critical of church culture lately and even have friends who'd agree with a lot of what you're saying and see themselves in your experiences. No way or reason to defend the church or Christians, people need to be held accountable and know their place. Thanks for shedding light on some of my blind spots, bud.
I really value how you include so many snippets of sermons. I was in the church until I was around 22, and have been free for about 11 years. To see the sermons and get that kind of affirmation that yes, they're still just as off base and morally repugnant as ever (my takeaway) is really helpful.
Happy I was able to catch this video great job