3 Common Head Gasket Mistakes Made by Mopar Engine Builders(that Affect All Brands)
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- čas přidán 18. 07. 2022
- While figuring my compression ratio on my 400 big block Mopar, I realized there were several nuances of head gasket selection that I haven’t previously mentioned before. Choosing the wrong head gasket can cause premature failure or not allow your engine to function correctly from its first day built.
In this video I share 3 common mistakes that are made by Mopar Engine Builders, that apply to all brands of engines. @UncleTonysGarage @UnityMotorSportsGarage
Thanks for watching!
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With respect to the concern about galvanic corrosion between an aluminum head and an iron block, a 6061 aluminum has an electrogalvanic potential of about -800 mV, and nickel-chrome cast iron has a potential of about -650 mV. The difference is 150 mV (or 0.15 volts). If the coolant is conductive then a galvanic cell will exist and the aluminum, which would be the anode, will corrode. However 0.15 V of potential is small and uncontaminated water is not very conductive, so the corrosion rate would be very small. Glycol is even less conductive than water. However with years of use the coolant can become more conductive. For this reason antifreeze usually has corrosion inhibitors in it. Occasionally a manufacturer (GM for example) will use an unusual alloy in their engines (Cadillac) that is very susceptible to galvanic corrosion. In these cases the manufacturers recommended coolant and flush intervals have to be followed or catastrophic failure is almost certain.
Bingo maintenance is key! Great explanation by the way.
Thank you for sharing. I am actually a licensed home inspector. Seeing galvanized hooked to black pipe, etc. has made me a believer. Granted the corrosion I see could be 10 years old.
@@JustMoparJoe I'm sure as a home inspector you have seen it all! My own current house, when I moved in 15 years ago, was horrendous, especially the wiring. I have sorted it out back to code over the years but now and then I still discover a surprise from previous ownership. I am a chemical engineer with a love of hot rodding and an affinity for Mopar products ever since my mom ordered the first Road Runner sold in Alberta in the late summer of 1967!
Nickel!
@@gavinmclaren9416 send me email, if you don’t mind. justmoparjoe@gmail.com
It is amazing how many products/ materials that are used by so many, yet people in general refuse to read the provided directions / information. One would think the manufacturers recommendation would hold some value , considering they know it's composition, it's capabilities, most likely, it's limitations, etc... Seriously, thank you for reading the directions Joe!!
Haha! I used to teach my 7th graders the same!
My brother-in-law is an I T specialist, and he says in regards to computers, never let one know you're in a hurry, and read the entire screen. Those are the only two things to know about computers..... I'd call b******* on that one, but he fixed my computer when he was in Missouri and I was in Kansas and I didn't even have an internet connection. And my computer never left my house.
Copper coat ain't gonna hurt any gasket...the fire ring will do its job regardless, the coating is there for the water jacket seal. And cometic gaskets can be reused.
Yes sir. It is your friend when you don’t have another
Great run down on head gaskets Joe! I am now rethinking all the gasket I bought for my engine..............
Haha! Thanks Duddie. To be fair, my 408 has the blue felpros from the kit. I’ve been battle testing them!
Me2
Thanks Just Mopar Joe for those Tips, Especially, for the Alignment of the Cylinder Gasket Gap to Relationship of Cylinder Bore my Outer Edge measurement!
Joe. I saw a youtube video where the guy said the cometic gaskets come with a light coating. He handled the gaskets so much that a lot of the coating was rubbed off, and the gasket failed. Worth looking into that situation
Very interesting. These seem to have a black coating. I wouldn’t wipe them with a strong solvent.
Cool video. I used MLS gaskets on my 408 Mopar no copper coat and haven't had any problems yet.
Thanks brother. I would have on mine too, but they ran the heads over a rough stone and the bottom was a terrible finish.
Great video Joe, alot of food for thought in this one.
I think the Cometics or the Felpro Performance gaskets would be fine.
As long as the fire ring is outside the chamfer on the cylinders or cylinder head combustion chamber.
Back in part 1 or 2 we discovered the Edelbrock heads chambers were outside the perimeter of the Felpro composition gaskets.
Thus requiring a different gasket.
Better to catch the problem now.
As you are bring light to the subject.Good job Joe.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks Ed. I won’t order any until we confer on the width of the deshrouding. Better safe than sorry!
@@JustMoparJoe Roger that Joe!!
As far as stock engines goes I use felpro permatex . I also make sure the head gasket surface and engine to head gasket surface has been if not machined I use orbital DA 320 grit sand paper to ruff up the entire surface and use micro fiber clothes with either carb/ choke cleaner spray or brake parts cleaner spray to prep the surfaces . other rags leave fuzz ect behind . I was told an old timer truck. use spray can of clear coat on the old steel gaskets to seal it ?? never tried it . I was told to use copper coat on the new clean sheet metal head gaskets . I stick with fel pro gaskets unless it would be for racing . Also I dont know how well this works but once you have your heads torqued down leave them for 24 hours and come back and take the torque stick at the final torque spec and randomly start rechecking the head bolts again but not in factory order ? it helps fine where a bolt or a part of the head has under pressure settled / stretched a little more causing an inaccurate torque but not by alot ? Seen that quit a while back on a Nicks garage video
Hey buddy! Where have you been? You will like the car I picked up today for a customer. It looks very familiar!
@@JustMoparJoe Sorry for that long first comment. ive been working at my new job for the past month and a half and it cuts into me watching lives or videos and this week I've been out sick with the family with covid
I used a copper coating on the first engine I did at the advice of the machinist, but haven't since. I put them on dry and haven't had an issue. I've always done as you mentioned and re-torqued the bolts the next day, but always in order. My last engine was 80 ft lbs plus 90 degrees so unless there's some trick, they can't be checked later on. That head gasket failed. It was some random brand offline during covid when parts and materials were hard to find since everyone was home and finally had free time to work on their cars plus a drop in manufacturing. I haven't fixed it yet, but I'm just now learning about all of fel pros options and might order different sets than I got. Spraying clear coat doesn't sound like a good idea to me, lol, but maybe on those old steel gaskets it would help. I still wouldn't and would use something made for it
I'm pretty sure if the fire ring is very close to the combustion chamber it will probably glow red hot and either cause pre ignition or fail prematurely
Good informative video
I think there are a lot of things that happen on the dragstrip with little to no consequence, that wouldn’t necessarily survive on the street.
Meaning, it seems like drag engines get torn down fairly regularly. Where street cars end up being together for a longer time.
I had an interesting scenario with head gaskets a while ago. I’ll have to do a talk about it Tuesday on the channel sometime
Excellent! Thanks Mike
True. Race engine lose no antifreeze. Street. Tight with antifreeze.
A Detroit head gasket best in street engine but a pain in tear down of a race engine.
Thanks for the info Joe. I've used steel head gaskets where ever possible and used the copper spray on them but never thought of or asked about spraying Comedic gaskets or the .038's.
Cool Chris. I last used the shim style on a 383 with no issues. The engine was around 11/1. The new owner blew those gaskets on his 10th nitrous pass of a 125 shot. Idk if he had an AFR gauge or ever pulled a plug.
Awsome video my friend. When you made the video in the machine shop about your block, you got me wondering how untrue my block and heads are.....💯😎
They could be ok, or really bad. If you’re worried, use a thick gasket! 😂
@@JustMoparJoe 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I hear ya brother. I'm planning on a 440 Source 505 stroker kit so I'll have my block and heads done like you did. This is why I'm following and excited about your build. Gonna really help me out when it comes time for mine....💯😎
That's a good point about the Aluminum heads. I put mine on with toe Fel-pro gaskets so that should be ok. Other than maybe at the fire rings.
Yes sir. I may go ahead with the gaskets recommendation from edelbrock. I’m still studying. I don’t want to get burned again on a ring hanging in.
Agreed with you 💯% on the corrosion.
Great info and excellent foundation for that build.
Thanks brother
Love the :-) face on the piston nice touch
It worked! Thanks for watching
I have chased the leaking gasket issue myself with attempted tuning, even replacing valve springs. Your issue was likely not at the front but between the cylinders. Mine wouldn't leak until under full power at around 5k rpm where the cam came in and cyl pressure was highest, then a little fire goes across to the cylinder on the intake stroke igniting it and causing backfire. It never showed on a compression test. It was a 383 that hadn't ever had the 906 heads off of it. that ran fine with the 1958 2x4 intake with 2 625s on it, but when I put long rams on it with those same carbs it created enough "boost" to lift the heads! I have ran a six pack, 2x4 bbl, tunnel ram, and most 4bbl intakes. Those long rams beat 'em all up to 7500 rpm with 2 big block thermoquads on them when cammed properly. You will have to pry those long rams from my cold dead fingers!
Used a set of Cometic on my 400. So far so good. Had the deck milled like you and plan on doing same on the next 400 that I’m starting this winter. Great advice Joe 👍👍
Excellent! Thanks for sharing. I’ve seen them fine on a stock block and smooth cut head. My heads on the 408 looked like a chainsaw cut them.
I would take a good seal over compression any day, but every thing I had any work on , I had both the head and block milled. The lone exception was an 84 Pontiac, Sunbird 1.8 4 cylinder. Ed did a valve job, and the cam carrier bolts with the head bolts. He milled both sides of the head to make sure the cam wouldn't bind. It worked great. My concern is longevity, not performance. My 3.9 lasted 21 years with very few problems.
Awesome, Bert!
Awesome tips and advice Joe!👍
Thanks Mitch
Thankyou Joe for that video, great eye opener I have over looked, but not anymore.
Thanks Mark! I learned it the hard way. Ended up buying oversized head gaskets and never looked back.
Great video and 100% correct on the first point. I just looked at my four blocks collecting dust and no chamfer, perhaps that depends on what plant and shift it was assembled at? Number two, I ran 11 to1 for years on a felpro blue gasket, albeit with head studs. Copper coat is meant for steel shim gasket only! Finally you are correct on the dis similar metals, fine if you are tearing your engine down every season but long term who knows?
Thank you Greg! Your experience matters and I appreciate you sharing.
Wouldn't copper coat negate the corrosion issue?
@@wayne8498 To a point, yes
@@gregtough9055 thanks for the response.
Or I have also used silver paint on a steel h gasket I think the factory did
Great video Joe. #1 was me for sure. Too caught up in compression, made sealing mistakes. 😂 Thanks for putting this out there.
I almost said your name, but it’s fixed now! Thanks buddy
@@JustMoparJoe 🤣😂
Things to consider for sure. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Great info on head gaskets, Joe!
Thanks brother. Hope it helps someone!
good info, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching
I was just gonna ask about aluminum heads. You started talking about it before I could type it out. 😎
I’m definitely no expert on them.
@@JustMoparJoe I’m leaning towards going aluminum heads on my 413/426 project. Big learning curve ahead for me I’m sure. Fortunately that’s a ways down the road So I have lots of time. A few other engines to build and some other projects to accomplish first
Another great video sir!
Thanks for the help!
good stuff joe and like you said always go by the manufacturers advice and not necessarily what your favorite hero/guru says to do
Thanks Paul! Sometimes the heroes put the manufacturer’s to shame. Sometimes it’s opposite. 😂
The reason the head gaskets are shaped the way they are in the lower half is because the combustion chamber is shaped that way because of the valve reliefs. That is why max wedge blocks had bore notches in that area. When you start a build it is wise to rough bore the block, install the heads on a bare block, mark the heads left and right, then with a scratch awl scratch the bore pattern of each cylinder on the heads. Never run your valve reliefs past that scratch mark unless you do a slight bore notch. Most people use a head gasket to mark the head, not the best idea, use the block.
Thanks for sharing!
Good information I run a dome piston on my 440 I've never had a problem with the 1009 fel pro gasket this is something to think about I will keep my eye on it.
Awesome, Dale. That’s how my dads 440 was in his racecar. It may be that only post 70’s truck blocks had the big chamfer.
Thank you. I learned something from this.
Thanks for watching
I use the Fel Pro gaskets and have never had a problem. I put them on with the head and turn the block over and look to see where the fire ring is, plus if the holes match with the chamber. There is a lot that goes into building an engine. One thing I have found if find a damn good machine shop!! Let them know what you plan to do and they should set you up with what you need. Or do your own stuff and blame your self.
Thanks for sharing Jerry. I work with Ed at Ed’s machine. We have a nice relationship, and he trusts me to build my own engines. Check out his channel. He shares his 40 years of machining knowledge there.
Mopar Joe! My respects! I’d like to meet you one day’
If possible!
You’re one of the few that gets down with the expensive stuff for real men!
Keep up the great work”
My Son is 19 and I gave him a 73 dart sport that we are building together 414 stroker with large port commandos’
👍
Thanks, Roger!
Thanks! this helped a lot.
Glad it helped!
Thanks good info
That is a nice looking block.
Best I’ve ever owned!
Don’t know if someone answered this already but I believe the reason for the out of round area in the fire ring on the felpro is that it is a somewhat one size fits all and allows them to be used on the 426 max wedge which has valve clearance notches in the top of the cylinder,much like the 351 Cleveland 4v motors. Nice work mate and thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Thanks brother. Yes sir, had a few guys share that. I’ll definitely remember it for next time
Ok, but since a 426 wedge has a smaller bore than than a 400 you'd think a gasket for a 400 would have room if it was perfectly round.
@@auteurfiddler8706 I think it depends on the chamfer of the 400. I think the truck blocks were even worse than the earlys.
@@JustMoparJoe Back before the 1.81" exhaust valves were available, the 2.14" intakes valves were available and the 1.88" Max Wedge exhaust valves were available. What we did was take 1.88" exhaust valves and cut them down to 1.83" diameter, to clear the cylinder bore and we'd leave a 0.100" margin on the valve head edge, for good flow. So we were running 2.14" intake valves and custom 1.83" exhaust valves, with standard valve stem diameter. It's important to use single lock groove valves and keepers with solid lifters too, as the multi-groove keepers could get knocked loose. The single groove keepers are good for keeping together high RPM hydraulic valve trains too. The single groove is wide, strong and has a positive grip on the valve stem, instead of the floating grip the multi-groove keepers have.
@@BrandonLeeBrown thanks 👍🏼
I always use a copper gasket 15:15 to 1,copper spray is great use on gasket and you can reuse them a few times(copper)
Interesting! I just saw Marcos at dust or bust have a pair fail. I’m not sure if he used sealant on them at all.
@@JustMoparJoe Hey Joe never had issues 15:15 to1 B1 928HP 800 torque 10+years
I've always wondered if you should size the Headgasket Hole to fit the Cylinder Hole, or the Head Hole if that is bigger. I go for the size of the Head Hole.
For MLS gaskets, I have no Idea what 50ra is. Never seen an example
Check this video out. I show the decking and use of a profilometer. Pump Gas 508 Stroker Build: Decking and Finish Honing #mopar #bigblock #440 #440source #stroker
czcams.com/video/EFG_ZMyT2f0/video.html
good tip
Thanks brother
Another great video!!
What is your gasket of choice for small block Mopar 5.9 with Trick Flow Aluminum heads? I have a set of cometic, which I planed on using copper coating. But value your opinion! Keep doin what you are doing!!
Thanks brother. Those cosmetics should be great! Be sure and check their diameter against the bore. I have et noticed small blocks with the severe chamfer before.
Soo...I have a fresh 408 (360 bored. 030) stroker crank, was thinking cometic gaskets, sized .040 bore with .030 compressed thickness. My bores gave irregular chamfers, figure the .040 bore gaskets would ensure no fire rings hang over...am I on the right track?
When I saw this pop in my notifications i said "F YEAH!" - So now I see why you were asking about what we were talkin about with the fire ring and the steel shim and yeah holy sheet thats a huge chamfer (not complaining or criticizing!). I dont think an oem shim will cover that but I will remember that if i ever get to my 440. Im not trying to jinx you but I wont be surprised if Ed has to cut a fire ring in. With as beautiful as that deck surface is, and iirc your heads are done too, I would be going with that teflon coated MLS for sure (unless I misunderstood and you arent doing an mls?)! I dont have a ton of experience with MLS on personal stuff but Ive helped with quite a few for other people and yeah we swear by copper coat. The ONE time we didnt coat we ended up with a coolant leak. Sure, its not a requirement but it does give that little bit of extra pore fill.
I had never even considered galvanic corrosion, thanks for that educational tip!!!
Thanks for watching brother. I don’t mind a composite gasket if the bore is large enough. I will check all my options and go over the choice during the full build.
8.5 to 9.0 to 1said Grandfather, with that said we didn't have the great stuff you can buy today. The Copper coat was standard in the old days.
That’s how my dad taught me
@@JustMoparJoe no better way and I am glad that he did and you're sharing it with us! Thanks again for your time, work, and most importantly the honesty that you use in your videos.
Brother hood definitely food for thought
Thank you!
Thank you very much Joe !! Truly was a learning experience for me . I am building a 318/393 LA stroker with Speedmaster Aluminum heads with Studs and the Top of the line Felpro head gaskets I bought for it are .039 and have a fire ring . Now I am gonna call them and ask if they are compatible with my 11.5-1 compression with a 150 shot of plate nitrous . Not every time I run it but at least a dozen times a season. Would you recommend a MLS head gasket Cooper coated for my Application?? If so should I still get one from Felpro or MLS themselves??
Thanks buddy! If you’re block and head surfaces have been smoothed, then MLS is best. They say not to coat them. I will probably give mine a light coat on both sides. If the deck isn’t perfect, the felpros should be good 👍🏼. Definitely call them for the best advice. My 408 has the out of the box felpros! Handled 150 shot just fine, with timing and fuel correct.
Right on Joe Thank you . Block will be square decked and zero decked. Icon pistons are flat tops forged with a .039 compressed head gasket will be exactly 11.5-1 with 65 cc head.
@@NilesJStJohn excellent. I would almost think it’d be more with a flat top at zero deck in a stroker with such a closed chamber head. Tomorrow I’m hoping to make a video measuring the quench and valve to piston clearance in my 400.
I've always had good luck with Trojan XL products for my head gaskets. They haven't failed me yet. Lol🕺💪
Bingo!
why no water holes for exhaust sides area?
do I need to open holes especially center one to cool 3-5 and 2-6 ? thanks
No sir. Some holes are made to be blocked off. I always compare gaskets side to side. Look for any markings that say front or block side.
JB weld can help with pitting
Surface finish , difference of expansion aluminum on iron are factors to consider.i once used hi temp.alum.spray paint on milled aluminum head that was scratched bad enough to leak coolant.i sanded paint off so scratches filled.used the factory graphite coated composition gasket, worked fine.not the normal way to use sealant s on gasket,but I didn't want to stick the gasket to head on this engine (inline 6 alum.head moves on iron block, hence coated gasket).
Thank you for sharing. Would that be like a 4.0 jeep engine?
4m Toyota 2.6l .machine shop in 1980s had a lot to learn about how put smooth finish on aluminum head.same issue today on aluminum or cast iron if you use mls or all metal gaskets smooth finish required.composition more forgiving.
I think those indentations in the head gasket are for relieving your block relieving the block helps with air flow into the cylinder
Thanks Robert. I think someone had shared that the older 413’s needed that indentation.
Have you ever torqued a head with one of these gaskets and then removed to see the sqish difference? Cool video! 👍
I have used them on several engines, but had a failure when I didn’t look for the overhang. It was a bad day at the races!
I have a 1972 Roadrunner 400cid! Is it worth Boring & Stroking my Roadrunner 400cid with the 440 Source Forge Crankshaft and Keith Black Forge Piston Kit?
It’s the difference in a 318 and a 440!
There’s lot of good information and bad information out there on the web and CZcams. I read what 440 source recommended for head gaskets for there aluminum heads. 440 Source recommended there composite gaskets, Felpro or a MLS. Factory steel shim leak per 440 source.
I used a set of Cometic MLS .029 gaskets. What I have found work on Chrysler products for almost 40 years. The MLS gaskets don’t actually blow like a composite gasket. They loose there seal when overheated. But we still say blown head gasket.
I have built a good amount of marine engines . What I see with corrosion is just lack of anode replacement with the galvanic corrosion . I have always used steel shim, Cometic and copper spray coat to help eliminate a lot of the pitting. And honestly, even though there are others out there that frown on the spray copper coat it is also being used as a coating/sealant . It’s condensation and 99% of the time from the expansion and contraction .
Electrolysis I have seen quite a bit from using aluminum housings and aluminum water pumps as well. There are so many variables it’s overwhelming.
It also remember , you can get the pitting and electrolysis from bad grounds as well. No one ever has those, lol.
Thanks Doc! I know when trying to pull that front aluminum timing cover off a small block, it can be welded to the bolts!
@@JustMoparJoe Joe , three weeks ago I was helping a friend of a friend of a friend ( you know how that works) , old California style ski boat with a 440 and a Jet drive. Had to use a air hammer to start chiseling the thing apart . Sat for a “little” while was the phone conversation. Last registration was 1999. Did not party like it I could tell you .
Corrosion will happen with dissimilar Metals that's a given but electrolysis requires an electrical field running adjacent to a running water source like a cooling jacket. I cannot tell you how many times I've had laid underneath the diesel engines getting black rain all over me doing an in frame overhaul because they're blowing coolant into the cylinders from the pinholes in the in the cylinder liners caused by electrolysis. We always use a product called water wetter, it neutralizes corrosion due to dissimilar metals and also controls electrolysis. It also keeps the water pump lubricated.
Now as for the aluminum heads on the iron block with the steel shim, I wouldn't use just the plain steel bead rolled shim, I would use a MLS like a Teflon coated Cometic. No copper coat, just smooth, like Cometic says.
Work goood, last long tine!😖😆😛😝🤭✌️
Thanks Joe!
Thanks, Brother
nice video
Thanks Tim! I would love your take on it. Definitely seen fewer small blocks with the chamfer issue.
@@JustMoparJoe I never run my fire ring close to the wall. Some worry about giving up the compression, but I never worry about a head gasket.
I think a big question is: Are there different head gaskets for different bores? I'm seeing Part No: 8519 PT-1 Fel Pro performance head gasket being listed for 361, 383, 400, 413, 440, and 426 wedge. I was told they each need a different gasket to make sure the compression ring is outside the bore, but just barely. And that each oversize choice, standard, 030, 060 required a different size if you are being careful. Of course a 440 that is oversize is close to the bore size of a 400.
So, why are we only allowed a one- size- fits -all gasket???
Also, I thought the disadvantage of the compression ring hanging into the bore was pre- ignition, not a loss of compression when that ring gets hot like a glow plug.
Excellent question for felpro. I typically but my Hi performance gaskets through summit. It will have a larger bore size listed there.
On a cast iron head I use the steel shim factory h gasket with copper coat never had a problem
They work well, but be sure the deck and head surfaces are flat. The last thing would be to check if the gasket falls into the bore. The old shim gaskets hang into a big bore 400 and may need trimmed.
Joe I’m so sorry to keep bother you I’m just a newbie mopar person. What’s your opinion on the lunati voodoo cam? I’m thinking about installing one in my 440. Just don’t know which direction to go
I consider them nice cams. More suited for the street car or truck that wants good vacuum for power brakes. They work well with lower compression engines as well. The complaint I’ve heard is that they don’t have a lumpy enough idle. I used one in the 413 engine build series, and a larger one in the 360 build series. I have sound clips and specs inside those. 👍🏼
My favorite flat tappet cam company is Isky. You can still call and they can advise you on their choice for your build. They will be more expensive, but higher quality.
Heck on a cast iron head i use the steel factory gasket with smith bros adj pushrods on stamped steel rockers do not want no more than 30 thousand on pre load on lifter
Thanks for sharing and have a good weekend
I had always assumed compression ratio was a way to explain the differences in volumes between BDC and TDC. Would a higher compression ratio engine create more cylinder pressure than a lower compression ratio engine? I’m curious how the two units of measure relate to each other. Correlations vs causations and such.
One of the greatest ignored factors is the camshaft and its influence on the engine’s dynamic compression. You can have a high static compression engine with a huge duration with less cylinder pressure than a 10/1 engine and tiny cam. The cylinder fills with air. The cam controls how much air is allowed in and for how long.
@@JustMoparJoe that makes a lot of sense. I hadn’t even thought of that, but it makes total sense. Thank you.
Hell with copper coat, Aluminum spray paint for the win, and first install I do dry with felpros.... Its the 2nd and 3rd time around that I use the paint 🤯
Interesting! Thanks for sharing
Did you fix your roll cage with the booger up welds and it didn't fit
Roll cage is perfect now. Thanks for the concern
C o m e t i c gaskets, the MLS style, aren't they Teflon coated except for the center shim? On my red 383 Magnum with zero deck flat top Pistons at 10.5:1 (no valve relief) compression I use and reuse a 0.015" shim, & I don't use copper coat. First time the bead is crushed it's only steel against iron, the second and third time the steel gets crushed I use a can of silver spray paint. (not the whole can) when I pull the heads it leaves little pentstars between the cylinders..
Thanks Joe!
They do have a coating, but im not sure what it’s made of. I do know that copper coat sticks to it nicely. My wife won’t let me spray her cooking pan to test it 😅
@@JustMoparJoe maybe pick one from a second hand store. I know what ya mean. My wife threatend me w/bodily harm cuz i moved the fridge to the barn... she's gonna kiiill me when she sees where the stove is..
Ima git 'er another one
Honest🏴🤑
Thanks Joe!
My question Is.. is that flap in the middle of the gasket that hangs out above the lifter valley detrimental to the running of the engine? I have a 318 la that I'm working on, and those flaps are bent down a covered in a thick layer of carbon. Can I just clean them up and flatten them back out or do I have to replace the whole gasket for the engine to run properly?
That flap does nothing but aligns with the head. It doesn’t contact the deck surface at all
@@JustMoparJoe thank you very much for quick response! I was really dreading the thought of having to replace the gaskets just for that. Glad I found your channel, you're the only source of info I've found regarding the flaps. Thanks again!
Joe what do you think about 20 thousands steal head gasket on mine . 11.1 piston closed chamber heads ? Will they last or blow ! I've never used them on a race engine.
I’ve used them on a 11/1 383 before and never had an issue. The guy I sold the car to started spraying the car every weekend with 125 shot and they eventually leaked. That block was never surfaced. It could have had something to do with its failure.
@@JustMoparJoe Should be okay then . I'm not spraying. Mine isn't decked so there's to much clearance. Thanks Joe 😁
Electrolysis won’t be an issue until the coolant gets old and acidic. Basically it turns the engine into a battery itself and can be measured with a digital volt meter. Hopefully a race engine will have its coolant changed regularly enough that it will never have that issue. In the shop I’ve found voltages over 1 volt cause issues in road cars. Running straight water would more likely cause rusting and cavitation because there is no film coating the cylinders water jackets and the action of the piston traveling down slightly warping the top of the cylinder wall and creating air bubbles where the deck and cylinder meet. If I were building a race engine that’s been bored over I’d run 7.3 Powerstroke coolant additive as extra protection even though it’d probably never have that issue anyway, its peace of mind.
Thanks for sharing! I’ll check into it.
I think gaskets are made like that so valves can't hit. The 413s and 426s you had to notch the block on bigger valve factory bore. So valve wouldn't hit the edge of the cylinder wall . That's my best guess 2 cents . 😆
Interesting! Thanks for sharing
what head gaskets do you recommend? I got a 318 5.2 small block
For a stock rebuild, that blue gasket is OK. I actually ran it with no issues on my old 408, but had aftermarket pistons. They do have some thinner style for the small block.
@JustMoparJoe Thank you for your input man. I subbed to your channel, I love these mopar engines and am trying to learn more about them. I really enjoy your videos
@@chicagorc3967 thanks for watching! I have a small block build coming up
@@JustMoparJoe Look forward to it
I always thought the whole deal with the copper coat was mainly for aluminum heads and to stop electrolysis from happening. Than car guys start doing vids on the internet and it seems like everyone is using it all the time, and now its always a heated argument every time it comes up. LOL
Definitely! I say do what works for you.
Is that pitting detonation damage?
I’m not certain on that. I would think these heads probably sat on a shelf and rusted with the Arkansas humidity.
So, what type of gasket are you using on that 400?
The best that I can afford 😅 and that’s not on back order 😩
"Big indentions", maybe valve relief? I know for BBC, that's what they are there for.
Yes sir.That’s what I’ve heard from some guys in the comments. Thanks for watching!
(Compliment) You have a 50s baseball announcer voice, but anyways, good info man
That’s the ballgame folks!
Could you tell me how much your machinist would charge for a stock 440. Roughly? No promises, but I may drive from AL to get it done!!
Thanks Mike. Ed and I have a deal worked out, that he doesn’t typically do for his customers. I have been bartering some core parts and stuff that he needed for his builds, in return for his work. If you have some specific questions, shoot him an email. matlock72758@gmail.com
@ 4:00 where you touch the middle of the gasket. Why the extra material?
I’m not really sure. The head has that surface machined in that shape. Maybe it’s to help with alignment or rigidity.
Power adders use cometics and copper coat, never look back. If u run water only always install a sacrificial anode in radiator, corrosion will pick on it
Very nice!
My untouched never shaved 383 does not have that chamfer.
I haven’t seen a 383 with one either. I used shim style on the last One I built. I have seen the chamfer on a lot of 440 truck blocks and 400’s.
Why cant they make the fire ring round, who has valves that dont fit in the bore?
I belive someone shared that it was an older design from 413’s. I’m not really certain.
Good old 915 small valves closed chamber up to 1967
Just is right .
I been building Mopars engines for 50 years never had a head gasket problem any compression??
I’m not sure your question. This engine will be 10/1.
At what point does an engine need to have the rings cut into the block or heads?
That would be an excellent question for Ed at Ed’s machine. I can’t give you an experienced answer for that.
My experience never use factory stock steel shim head gaskets.
I believe they’re really nice when you have two flat surfaces and need to set your quench closer. But I copper coat them religiously.
MLS gaskets only for me….ls9 gaskets to be exact…….no copper coat bs…..on the old school small block Chevy and ford we would coat the gaskets in motor oil
That’s a new one on me. Thanks for sharing!
Never install a head gasket with oil on them that works only on an old stock engine
Yea 915 closed chamber only thing small exhaust valve
Notchs r were valves r so if u notch block to match the valves flow better
Especially if the valves are shrouded by a tight bore. It's not necessary in this application with this sized valve and huge bore size. The heads Im using have been unshrouded professionally to match the cylinder wall and gasket
I had a scratch between all my cylinders on a set of heads I ordered. Fell out of the box during shipping, guy wouldn't cover me for a $60 resurface because "5 thou is SAE's standard for no head gasket leak." It was 4 thousands deep and when my guy resurfaced it he said they weren't flat either. I wouldn't have been too bothered if it was towards the edge of the head but right between every cylinder and the fact It was catching my nail and then to find out it wasn't flat either pissed me off that he didn't care about my time and $240 I paid for just shipping the damn things. PIE is not high on my recommendation list for heads, he ports EQ heads and installs bigger valves but I think I would've rather just done it locally. Everything he did is nice but he just thinks I've got all this time and money to rebuild it when the gasket blows. No dude I wanna do it right the first time
Thanks for sharing!
I blow a head gasket every time I get mad. L O L
Hahah! Should have copper coated it
@@JustMoparJoe hahaha
Copper Coat.. I put that shit on everything hahaha 😆
Always handy to keep a can!
When checking the hole flip the cal. over that is what they are there for.Those "ears" fit into the hole.
The ears won’t fit into the .030 chamfer on each side of this bore.
@@JustMoparJoe we never used a chamfer that wide.But I use a inside mike.
@@dynodon100 some of these old blocks had them. I think it’s post 75 from what I’ve seen. Almost all truck blocks.
Are you going to block those lovely "Figure of 8" cooling passages in the block with that tiny, tiny, little slot in that gasket?
Yea they get restricted with any gasket. Here’s the actual ones that I’m using. www.summitracing.com/parts/cgt-c5462-027/make/dodge
@@JustMoparJoe Not having a go mate, just pointing out that the slots are VERY small in a lot of gaskets.
I recently built a 440 here in the UK, and used a steel shim gasket as I had a block with the Figure of 8 cooling holes, and the steel shim gasket had very large original 60's factory sized cooling holes.
From what I have read when the smog era started in the 70's they reduced the slot size to make the heads run hotter to try and reduce emissions. It seems this also led to cooling issues, which was the case in my car.
On the issue of steel shim gaskets, I have seen them over 40 years old and they have finally started leaking due to corrosion, but not being blown due to poor sealing. I think the factory fresh blocks were not "Square" back in the day, and so for street engines which see full throttle every now and then, steel shims aren't an issue, and have large cooling holes as a bonus.
Obviously, if you are racing, them that might be a different matter.
Just offering my experience with these gaskets, which I hope you and your viewers find useful (or not!)
Take care 👍👍
@@somebloke13 thanks for sharing. I didn’t sense any hostility in your comment. I may can do a video on differences in blocks throughout the years. 👍🏼
@@JustMoparJoe Glad you weren't offended. I chose the "Heavy Duty" figure of 8 block for that extra cooling, and it's worked great for me.
Be interesting to see the other blocks available 👍
You're wrong on that I run 12 and a half to one 250 short nitrous they never failed for the best ones I have
You are a one and a million. Thanks for watching
Hmmmm I wonder who copper coats the MLS gaskets.....not gonna guess I know lol 😆😂😝 better shhhhhhhh.
😂 I’m not telling, but you’d be surprised
You don't coat head gasket because, they cannot slip when glued on. The metals move at different rates, so head gasket has to accommodate this.
Thanks for sharing. I think the coatings were so infamous back when the shim gasket was used.
Buy used copper coat. On steel shim. Head gaskets. The heads were milled. The deck was starfest properly. I wish I could get some money from these people. But I'm telling you the product works
you cant use any thick gasket with an undecked block....the giant quench will ruin your engine it might ping only use a Fel Pro 015 coated steel shim gasket with stock deck height!
I can’t find evidence to support your claims. Thanks for sharing
@@JustMoparJoe Please go to Berlin leaks and Bruxelles leaks....
Is that you mopar joe