Shabir Ally Destroys Qur'anic Preservation in 17 MINUTES!
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 06. 2022
- Dr Shabir Ally, on June 13, 2022 was asked by his daughter Dr Safiyya Ally, how Muslims can accept the findings of the Sana'a Manuscript which has writings in its lower Palimpsest text that do not conform to the upper text, nor to the Qur'an today (i.e. the lower text has 63 verses with 70 differences from our present Qur'an)?
You can see that 17-minute interview on "Let the Qur'an Speak" here: • Does the Sanaa Manuscr...
Note just how many damaging admissions Dr Ally made in the description box of his video above, where he says "The Sanaa palimpsest is an erased Quranic manuscript found in 1972 that was written over with a different version of the Quran. The upper text corresponds with the Uthmanic Quran that Muslims read today. The lower text showed variations, though not to the extent that it significantly alters Muslim beliefs and practices. Dr. Shabir Ally explains that the Sanaa palimpsest cuts away at the popular idea that the Quran has been preserved dot by dot, letter by letter, the way it was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad. At the same time, it removes suspicion in academic circles that differences in the Quranic manuscripts were glossed over when Uthman the Caliph prescribed a single copy to the Muslim world. Dr. Shabir says Muslims can be confident that the Uthmanic Quran we have now was produced in the lifetime of the companions who lived and walked with the Prophet Muhammad and is grounded in scholarly scrutiny and the best representation of what they knew collectively that the Prophet had preached in their presence. Therefore we have full confidence that the Quran is the revelation of God to the Prophet Muhammad."
In his video on the subject, Dr Ally made 6 damaging admissions in his response to this question on the Sana'a MSS:
1) The Lower layer was indeed different from the upper layer with "significant variations", though he claimed they didn't change any doctrine, theology, or practice. Nonetheless, this is his first public admission that there could have been another Qur'an from that of Uthman's canonical Qur'an.
2) This Sana'a Manuscript was actually "pre-Uthmanic” and could have come from other early collections by Ubay ibn Ka'ab (who lived in Damascus, who had 116 Suras in his Qur'an), or from Ibn Masu'd's Qur'an (from Baghdad, who had only 110 Suras in his Qur'an). Yet, since Uthman's Qur'an had 114 Suras, Shabir is admitting yet again that there were different Qur'ans.
3) That Uthman's Qur'an "accurately represented the preaching of Muhammad". But how does he know, since it didn't agree with the other codices of the companions of the prophet, and it was written 20 years after Muhammad died? Why would this one be better or worse than the other differing codices (Dr Arthur Jeffery in 1935, by looking at the differences between these codices which were noted in the Traditions, came up with 15,000 differences between them).
4) That the oft repeated claim by almost 99.9% of all Muslims today that there have been no changes to the Qur'an, that our Qur'an today is exactly the same, "Word for Word, and Letter for Letter" like that of Uthman's Qur'an, Dr Ally believes is only said by "idiots" and is not "Academic", because scholars know that there have been additions and accretions, and deletions. Yet, again, another admission of the fallacy of preservation!
5) That the Sana'a manuscript's palimpsest (with the differences between the two layers) proves that there was no suppression by Uthman of the final Qur'an; yet he just admitted earlier that the companion codices were suppressed by Uthman, and had he read Bukahri's account of the Qur'an's creation, he would have seen that Uthman burned every codice which didn't agree with his codex, proving that there were all kinds of suppression.
6) That Uthman's Qur'an was produced "With scholarly scrutiny of their collective representation of what they knew Muhammad had said. Much like the Gospel writers (Peter, James and John) recollections of what Jesus said and did, so was the Qur'an written down." What an admission!
Dr Ally is basically admitting in his conclusion that the Qur'an is not eternal, nor is it derived from 'preserved tablets' in heaven, nor was it 'guarded by Allah from any changes' (Surahs 10:15; 18:27; 15:9 & 85:21-22), but that it is nothing other than a document written by men (the companions of
the prophet) years after the fact, made up of their "recollections" of what Muhammad possibly said and what he possibly did.
In 17 minutes, Dr Shabir Ally has demoted the Qur'an from an "eternal text", preserved by Allah himself, to nothing more than a book like any other book, written by men who wrote down what they remembered another man said or did.
With these 6 admissions, Dr Ally, in one fell swoop, has destroyed the Qur'an's Perfect Preservation.
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, 2022
(65,610) Music: "Feeling the Caribbean Sun" by Horst Hoffmann, from filmmusic-io - Zábava
The ever changing story and history of islam. I saw a video yesterday about this.This one has much more detail and info. Thank you Jay. So the scholars have always known there are variations but they continued to lie about it for 1400 years...🤔
@domcom fermi islam is the most unstable ideology on the planet and it is being destroyed by channels like Jay's and the astronomical work that he puts into exposing islam. Jay has unlimited genius abilities on loan from GOD.
Two invisible replies. Not bad!
@Kilian Klaiber It’s Google/CZcams. They are ramping up their censorship - and their protection of the “Protected Group(s)”.
@Kilian Klaiber likely removed by youtube but a false number of replies still linger showing more replies than there actually is. That's my take.
Yasir Qadhi also said the same. He said advanced scholars had always known. He was very clear it was something they shouldn't discuss with anybody who wasn't.
Thanks Jay for explaining this more deeply. Pietermartizburg KZN South Africa 🌍
Ganjaan manje
Great video. As with Sheikh Yasir Qadhi and Shabir Ali, Islam's worst enemy is its own sources and it's own teachers.
They overpromised.
@The Dark Arts Who are "We" in your comment?
@@alsowithingodsreasoning1810 He has a point. These are just celebrity scholars similar to the likes of Bill Nye Neil deGrasse Tyson
@The Dark Arts The way of the Power to lead astray, this is your Alla? But don't you see dear you have not God if you want the devil to lead astray. Don't you see your siding with the devil? Yeshua is not of the devil, He seeks to Save that which are lost and finds them and gives them Eternal Life, as He gave and is still giving Eternal Life for Yeshua is Eternal Life - the Apostles of Christ scribed this for you so to might know He is The Son of God to Save you so you won't perish.
ASK, Yeshua for Eternal Life and you shall receive.
@@user-op8fg3ny3j Who is "he" in your comment, do you mean The Dark Art
I don't know who is best at destroying the Quran, Shabir, Yasir or Jay. Thank you internet and thank you Sheik CZcams.
😂😂👆
One minute silence for those muslims who still somehow make up their minds that " Muslim apologists are correct and quran is preserved!! "
Sure is preserved. Alhamdulillah
@@BlueBoardAnalysis 7 different hafs or 4 different warsh or qaaloon or jamas qurans LOL
🔥
In that time in history, most people couldn't read nor write.
@@thequransarecorruptedwarsh3238 so what these reading traces back to prophet mohammad ...we have no problem
By the way ram is not a god in original ramayana which is in sanskrit 🤣😂..if you don't believe me go and check yourself
He does not destroy quoranic verses....he destroyed the Quor 'an and the basic of Islam.
For sure the SIN (standard islamic narrative) :-)
The house of cards are being blown down slowly inside out,thank you Jay for your tireless efforts to date,may God bless you and your family ministry in Jesus name Amen
"They simply parroted the common way of speaking about the koran... perfectly preserved, word 4 word, letter by letter, dot 4 dot...." So what now Shabir Ally that the Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN) has been convincingly & irrefutably debunked: Are you gonna DITCH Islam???
They will have to ditch Islam as it has traditionally existed. Maybe they will invent a new Islam with a new doctrine about the Quran. Mormonism has a very similar problem with the Book of Mormon. They have changed it so many times that they no longer allow anyone to read or copy the original version. Islam seems to have done something similar.
Shabir Ally, the gift that keeps giving.
After listening to Shabir Ally vs Mike Licona debate, Nabeel Qureshi convinced to became a christian..Shabir Ally is that helpful..
@@entity5678 yes
He tries to be honest and that always helps.
There's just so many lies within the SIN.
In another "interview" by his daughter, Shabir was asked about sex slavery. Shabir answered that it is permitted, and that the captive has no ability to refuse. Those are the morals of Shabir.
And his daughter obviously has no problem with that !
Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with their own personal morals, because Shabir and his daughter cannot openly deny the scholars of Sharia.
He can't disavow it openly or he will be ostracized. There is copious evidence that slavery and sex slavery is a full blown religious institution in Islam, instituted by God, even in heaven. Of course he can say nothing, and neither can his daughter
According to one of those speakers, preserved until Judgement Day?!?!? It must be Judgement Day!
Yes, a very strange thing to say considering how the Quran is supposed to be eternal!
WOW! Dr. Shabbir Ali made my day! Really. Finally, Dr. Shabbir Ali admitted the corruption of Quran.
The "cover-up" only makes matters worse.... Have the Muslims not learnt this lesson yet?
What a time to be alive! The foundation of Islam was built on quicksand.
It was built on popcorn!
God bless you
June is such an insightful month!
Fantastic vid Jay. Opening hidden issues continually. Peace brother 🙏✝️☦️🙏
If he is saying the Saana Manuscript is like the accounts of the Gospels,
then he is admitting the Gospel accounts are to be considered sahiiih....
Good point!
I remember a video or it was during a debate, not sure, in which Shabir said that the Gospels cannot be reliable coz they were written down decades after Jesus walked the earth.
@@maartjewaterman1193 hmm, the same logic can be applied to the unpreserved and changed versions of Quran we see running around today!
THANK YOU SIR, SO MUCH FOR YOUR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION TO OUR LORD AND GOD CHRIST JESUS MAY HE SATISFY YOU WITH HIS PEACE
hahaha
I just hope that someday they will "let the Quran be silent" 😉
Hah! Apparently it’s instead going to one day going to come to life and tattle tell on every mzm
@@user-ch3ck7ir7c
I see Islam as a threat. And I hope that people will become Christian, but that is not for me to decide.
So don't whine and get yourself in the victim-mode again. You can easily find christians speaking out against liberalism, atheism, hinduism etc. as well. Or muslims trying to refute Christianity. If you think all of this is a bad idea and people would be better off being muslims, feel free to do Dawah.
And don't get me started on weak fundaments. Islam has no fundament at all except a weird prophet doing ugly things and inventing nonsense.
@@user-ch3ck7ir7c
"Who are you with your tiny little brain to say: 'that makes no sense?'" Free after Ali Blahblah 🤣
@@user-ch3ck7ir7c another mzm from the East who is an expert on what Christians do in the west! 🙄 And we ASSUME Christianity is true? Says the mzm whose entire religion is based upon he said he said his uncle said 800 yrs later and has footprints to prove it !What a joke! To answer u tho, no, we expect Christianity to be a dying belief JUST LIKE JESUS SAID! Now what?
@@user-ch3ck7ir7c u clearly aren’t as familiar w ur history and books as I am since I’m aware of ur profit’s missing 30+ generations, ur missing and different, written over and erased Qs, ur early scholar’s outsourcing that reaches the 1000s, etc. And I’ve learned all this from YOUR SOURCES, not mine! U can’t even prove mhamed existed, let alone ur Q and hadith writers so I fail to see how u can argue any type of preservation! Particularly when ur early scholars admit there was no Q at the time of mhamed amd todays scholars admit its not preserved at all. I bet u didn’t know Imran Hosein came out and admitted Jesus was crucified! Islam has no history, no archaeology - u don’t even have one piece of literature written in Arabic before the Q so spare me. I can destroy the SIN (standard islamic narrative) as quickly as Zakir Naik! Furthermore, Islam then and still today “flourishes” due to fear and if it could stand on its own like the Bible, it wouldn’t need apostasy laws. Ur barking up the wrong tree my friend. Ur probably one of those who think Jesus was mzm bc He prostrated aren’t ya?
15:00 Hear my preserved sound of AHAHAHAHAHA!
Keep up the good work Jay👍🏻
Dr. Jay as usual, we are blessed to learn more about this Islamic lies and fabrication, no matter how much people lied and try to hide the truth and also because the lie has short lived and here they crumbled
Issslaaam busts issslaam...
His backtracking is him informing the muslims...
"Here's how we'll try to save
our embarrassed butts while
we can, braderrs..."
He doesn't want to be killed so he kinda tells the truth but then disguises it with some pleasing words for the Muslims.
God bless you Jay and your beloved ones. Thank you so much for all your efforts to bring the truth out. To the glory of God.
haha
hallelujah!
I remember that interview, Shabbir Ally did yeoman service to humanity in exposing the truth about the 'perfect' preservation of quran, shortly afterwards Yasir Qadhi was to famously state that there are holes in the narrative about the perfect preservation of the quran!!!
ha ha ha...STOP YOUR LYING...ha ha ha
@@aaabrams1889 😃😃
@@aaabrams1889 Hello Brien Doyle!
@@gavinjames1145
???
@@aaabrams1889 Just checking.
Great information, God bless you Dr Jay.
Is he becoming a secret folowor of Jesus Christ?
Am I understanding wright that he's been validating the preservation of the gospels?
Yes he has, by comparing it to Peter, James and John.
What? When did this happen?!
The eternal preservation of the Word is the foundation of our faith in ✝️. The Word became flesh : the basis of our Sonship!
Scripture ( the written letter ) has been twisted for as long as man’s history ( that is called religion folks!). Islam holds the crown for twisting the Word of God.
So there is only one quo'ran but now that we know there are at least 37 versions plus written in a complete different language they adjust the narrative to suit the modern finding..... OMG what a lot of crap! What else will they cone up with ?
That it was normal back then for a 54 yo man to mount a 6 yo
great stuff!
That was a nice work.
Even Uthman knew of differing texts of Korans as he burnt any against his man made Koran
Thanks Dr Jay, God bless 🙏
Hmmm at 9:40ish I thought Allah protected His word, how could it have been written down wrong?
28:02 Indeed Jay, the Scriptures are - as you know - special, unique; and this is also why the ''holy spirit'' was sent to Jesus' apostles\disciples in the 1st century, to assist them in the power of *recollection,* a very important factor - in addition to their own recollection - for Christ said: "All this I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things *and will 👉remind you of everything I have told you.* (John 14::25,26)
So, their power of recollection would be unmatched, brilliant, by the will of God through the holy spirit.
I love it! Thank goodness Shabbir Ali is honest as he spilling the beans, big time.
I hope your holiday is peaceful and full of sunshine Mel. See you soon.
@Kriss Warner Will try. I wait a book by Dr Mark Durie that will comprehensively cover this.
Are you that gullible to believe this liar and Deceiver Jay smih?
That interview was prerecorded and if ANYTHING problematic therein, then they would not have published it.
THE DECEPTION
by Jay is to target gullible xtians like you who do not know the whole truth that the Quran is perfectly preserved...
Just like the interview of Yasir Qadi with Mohammad Hijab where Yasir Qadi said "the Narrative has HOLES", the same with this interview between Shabir Ali and his daughter is totally misunderstood by Non-Muslims...AND WHAT MAKES IT WORSE is Jay is adding negative commentary....ha ha ha
The facts are that all these Muslims, Yasir Qadi, Mohammad Hijab, Shabir Ali and his daughter BELIEVE THAT THE QURAN IS PERFECTLY PRESERVED.
@Kriss Warner It is in the works. No promises. I will see what the priorities are and do what I feel inspired to.
@Kriss Warner Gentle reminder that I'm on holidays. I will come back to this in August.
Thanks 👍
Shabir Ally
Shehzad Saleem
Yasir Qadhi
the scholars that rather honest about the "perfect" preservation of the Quran
Look for videos featuring dr. Shady Nasser, he is a muslim, yet honest in his view about the Quran being (not) perfectly preserved.
@@henkh63 I knew about him, he wrote a book about the canonization of Quran, and a professor in Harvard, but yet I'm surprised he is a Muslim
@@lukesusilo2112 to the best of my knowledge dr. Nasser is a muslim, though I must admit it's hard to find reference for that.
I will ask you one simple question. What is the ultimate purpose of a man professing Islam? Jannat(heaven). Why do you want to go there, means what do you get there? 72 hoors and rivers of wine. What then for women? Is this the purpose of life or should it be the purpose of life?
the message of the Prophet is there will be an end of days in my lifetime or very soon after and I have been called to fight all disbelievers and take their lands as well as what they own as it belongs to Allah who gives it to us his true believers as it will hasten the end of days.
The rest of Islam is just expanding on the details of that message, like defining what a true believer is, adding a nice talking point from a tall tale here and there and a few prayers to support the message.
and
The First Rule of Islam is you can't talk of Islam in a negative way even if it is truly what the prophet said and did.
More holes in the narrative..lol..God bless your work Jay
The Christian mangod had holes in his feet. He couldn't walk on water anymore.
@@alonzoharris6730 the muslim man god momo had holes in his morals.
@domcom fermi every holes a goal for our resident Bedouin momo
@domcom fermi
There is no mangod in the Quran.
Did the Christian mangod do the Michael Jackson moonwalk on water after his 'resurrection'?
@@alonzoharris6730 The brave and honest Alfonzo was supposed to debate earlier this week, a debate he asked for. But in usual fashion he didn't show up, this is like the 4-5th time he does this. He's a coward and a liar, best thing to do is to not engage with him only call him a liar.
Fantastic.
Thanks Jay
Shabir Ally of the Islamic INFORMATION Center. Oh the irony, Islam is not a source of information about the tradition which it claims to be a part of.
As C.P. would say... Is there any muslim, any abduls????
Jay good analysis 👌👍🙏
The GSB and Qadhi now both don't claim it's perfectly preserved.
Gaslighting is such a common practise these days. Thank you for exposing it.
The goal post of muslims is changed
A fabulous video Dr. J Smith, I wonder what the fundamental Muslims reaction will be?
Their reaction is that Jay smith is genius in cut, copying, paste and taking out of context a few part of a whole clip. Their reaction is just laughing at you and wondering how in hell in the age of the internet where by just a few click you can get the whole video, but instead of that you believe blindly a few carefully selected cut out sections. Did it ever occur to you to watch the whole video of Shabir Ally and understand it. I can give you a hint.When Shabir Ally said that people parrot blindly that the quran was preserved words for words, and do not understand that there is variation. He did not mean the Quran was not preserved, He meant only people think that the quran has only when readings. For example there is Hafs recitation and there is warsh recitation and there is Qaloon recitation, but some people for example take hafs reading and reject all other readings and say this the one that was preserved letters for lettrs. And Sabbir Alli is just telling them no, there is not one recitation there are 10 recitation and all of the 10 recitation are preserved words for words and letter for letters.
@@mahmoodali1533
Provide 7th Century historical and archeological evidence for the following
1. A cosmopolitan Mecca
2. A prophet of Islam called Mohammad in Arabia
3. A complete 7th Century Islamic Quran with unchanged Surahs
4. A cosmopolitan Medina
5. Jews in the area of Medina
6. Enough water to supply a cosmopolitan Mecca
7. Archeological evidence for the Battle of the Trench
This will be interesting 😂
@@simonhengle8316
Ok, before we started I want you to do some home work. This home work will help you to get the answer for your questions.
Can you do research about (Hegra (Mada'in Salih). Trying to find the answer to those question.
1- Where is it located?
2-What centuries they lived in?
3-How many people lived there.
4-How did they made living.
5-Where were the water sources that sustained them.
6- What their lives looked like.
@@mahmoodali1533
Hilarious 😂 just answer the questions
BTW even your Qurans debunk Mecca
Provide 7th Century historical and archeological evidence for the following
1. A cosmopolitan Mecca
2. A prophet of Islam called Mohammad in Arabia
3. A complete 7th Century Islamic Quran with unchanged Surahs
4. A cosmopolitan Medina
5. Jews in the area of Medina
6. Enough water to supply a cosmopolitan Mecca
7. Archeological evidence for the Battle of the Trench
This will be interesting 😂
Professor Fred Donner (one of the Worlds top Islamic scholars) points out (and he is one of many); that we have no documents whatsoever from Mohammed, or from any of his other companions, and that Muslim accounts are written much later, a couple of hundred years later and don’t match up historically
@@simonhengle8316
You are not going to understand my answers unless you searched what I asked you to search. This Hegra (Mada'in Salih) is a few kilometer from Mecca and had the same condition of Mecca, yet there is clear evidence that there were people lived there because of the dwellings they left. Westerns scholars always claims mecca could not have sustained large population, but always they like to turn blind eye to the fact that a few kilometer from Mecca there was another civilization that lived there for centuries. I know you do not want to research it because you know the evidence is not in your favor.
Dr shapir forget to mention the calepeh’s apparatus ? The sword I guess?
So. Jesus is still the only way to heaven. Acts 4:11-12, Isa 28:16, Mat 21:42, 1 Pet 2:6-8,
yes!
Truth takes time to unveil.
Dr.Jay , According to me you are a wonder fighter against the "Satan & his verses "
Excellent discussion that gives me better insight by scholars and referenced writers in the history of the Quran thus educating me and hopefully many other to refute the falsehood of Islam
So in scribe shop student is given parchment and not a papyri to practice? Very interesting thinking.
Dr jay sorry didn't know how to contact you. Just need to know where to get resource or link where I can find the 31 different versions of quaran as evidence to show ones that don't believe.
Greatly appreciated
God bless
Where is that specific uthman koran?
Jay Sir, your work is comprehensive and precise. Thanks for the wonderful hard work. Regards.
Only truth prevails. Islam is destined to doom, sooner than later.
The only way, the only truth and the only life is in Jesus Christ. Salvation to mankind is only in him , with him and through him alone.
Are you that gullible to believe this liar and Deceiver Jay smih?
That interview was prerecorded and if ANYTHING problematic therein, then they would not have published it.
THE DECEPTION
by Jay is to target gullible xtians like you who do not know the whole truth that the Quran is perfectly preserved...
Just like the interview of Yasir Qadi with Mohammad Hijab where Yasir Qadi said "the Narrative has HOLES", the same with this interview between Shabir Ali and his daughter is totally misunderstood by Non-Muslims...AND WHAT MAKES IT WORSE is Jay is adding negative commentary....ha ha ha
The facts are that all these Muslims, Yasir Qadi, Mohammad Hijab, Shabir Ali and his daughter BELIEVE THAT THE QURAN IS PERFECTLY PRESERVED.
If someone is writing based on memories of many people, how it can be original?
No ONE person wrote the Quran based on memory ...ha ha ha
What a mental gymnastic is required to be a Muslim and also defend the Quran and Muhammad
I am very impressed with Dr. Ally for telling the truth about different Qurans.
Are you that gullible to believe this liar and Deceiver Jay smih?
That interview was prerecorded and if ANYTHING problematic therein, then they would not have published it.
THE DECEPTION
by Jay is to target gullible xtians like you who do not know the whole truth that the Quran is perfectly preserved...
Just like the interview of Yasir Qadi with Mohammad Hijab where Yasir Qadi said "the Narrative has HOLES", the same with this interview between Shabir Ali and his daughter is totally misunderstood by Non-Muslims...AND WHAT MAKES IT WORSE is Jay is adding negative commentary....ha ha ha
The facts are that all these Muslims, Yasir Qadi, Mohammad Hijab, Shabir Ali and his daughter BELIEVE THAT THE QURAN IS PERFECTLY PRESERVED.
Y does shabir look so funny with his new beard style 😂😂😂
The question I keep asking myself is that why didn't they tell their followers from the beginning. Why do they've to lie for their followers to put down their lives for such lies. So what will happens to those who died believing in that. They died in vain. Lord have mercy upon them. Thanks Jay Smith.
Ask yourself WHY the Muslims insist that the Quran is preserved perfectly - OR is the missionaries lying by not telling you gullible xtians the whole truth???
What about the 29 other Qurans they/we have that where canonized?
what the difference?
Does anyone have a link to the whole Shabir video?
Great explanations by Shabir, except that they do not line up with evidence from the century in question.
Show me the Uthmanic mushaf and I will admit my error. If you can't, it's time for you to admit your error.
It is time for the red herring responder to show up and say, "Shabir Ali worships 3 gods." 🤣🤣🤣
Ah, it would be great to hear the thoughts of the great Professor Alonzo on this subject...🤣
@@horseradishpower9947 He actually showed up on DCCI version of this video saying that Hatun worships 3 gods. I said, looks like a typo. Don't you mean Shabir Ali worships 3 gods? 🤣
@@mo_51_married_aisha_6 Ah, Alonzo... you never learn. 😂
This is all they have now, it seems. Their ammunition is clearly dwindled down to next to nothing. They tried to unravel the Bible with their "gotcha" questions, and got more desperate from there...
I wonder how Alonzo is taking these latest admissions?
@@mo_51_married_aisha_6 Oh, and I need to look at the DCCI video, to see what she has noticed. Likely quite a bit.
@@horseradishpower9947 This is why Islam is not fairing well in the information age. The internet is ruining everything for them. Pandora's box is open and there's no way Muslims can close it. 🌀
Every single Quran says “according so and so, according so and so” and non of them claim according to Muhammad or Allah or Angel Gabriel! But it says according “Hafs” who is consider a liar! Wow! What a cult? 😂
What you mean? Explain
Muslims.........Which Quran are you reading? Hafs? Warsh? Duri? Al Susi? How many Qurans do you have Muslims?
A person studies science for 20 years. All concepts stay in his outer mind. Then he goes to a preacher for 1 year. He turns into a fanatic.
Why? Because half baked things easily get into subconscious mind and then into dreams. And we have a tendency to believe dreams to be the certificate from divine authorities.
The righteous will claim sole domain on judgement. The righteous are the first to make hands into fists, the first to shout down dissenters, the first to bully others into compliance.
As much I disagree with much of your narrative Jay, I am grateful for this video. I listened to it but was doing other things at the same time. I will watch this again and again. It’s super encouraging news.
What is your disagreement with Jay?
@@aaabrams1889 I can’t abide the defence of Hellenistic Byzantine Christianity that teaches Jesus is God almighty. I also find that Jay always teaches the negative aspects of Islam often poisoning Christians against Muslims. I call myself as Nazarene, a title Paul was given in Acts 25. I believe Yeshua is the chosen anointed one and begotten son of Psalm 2, the elevated Lord of Psalm 110, the one who suffered, died and rose again according to psalm 8, 22 and 110, the high priest of righteousness of psalm 110, the son of man who is given all power and authority of Daniel 7, our lord and saviour and god (in the sense Jesus showed the title was used of certain unique men under the direct order of YHVH BUT not YHVH.
@@Thewatchman303 do you also believe that he was saved from the cross psalm 22 ?
Psalm 22:20
Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog!
Which is confirmed in the Quran ?
Quran 3:55
When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I shall take you[r soul],1 and I shall raise you up toward Myself, and I shall clear you of [the calumnies of] the faithless, and I shall set those who follow you above the faithless until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me will be your return, whereat I will judge between you concerning that about which you used to differ.
I have asked Muslims which one is the perfect Qur'an in heaven when referring to the Qur'an
Allah (🦵) knows best 🤣🤣🤣🤣
There is only ONE Quran,
Muslims reject the Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; because as they claim, they want the injil - Gospel written by Jesus. How about Muslims producing the Quran that was revealed to Muhammed, instead of the Qurans that were revealed to Uthman and (or) Hafs and Warsh?
It's not that the Muslims want the Injil, as the basics are in the Quran - the problem is that the gospels in your bible were written by UNKNOWN Authors ACCORDING TO 'mthw', ACCORDING TO 'mark', ACCORDING TO 'luke' and ACCORDING TO 'john' - all written in the 3rd person and can't be trusted...
These 4 'gospels' are a general summary of the life of Jesus, that's why it's called the SYNOPTIC 'gospels' (Synoptic means General Summary) and was chosen out of many other 'gospels', as they all contradicted one another and was left out from your canon.
THE QURAN (means RECITATION)
as we have it today, as it was REVEALED to Mohammad (saw) and it was revealed in 7 modes or styles of Recitation .
These STYLES are made up with VARIANT WORDS, that were also Revelation and Reciters like Hafs and Warsh and others CHOSE those Variant Words to form a Style of Recitation.
EVERYTHING IN THE QURAN IS THE SAME - WORD-FOR WORD
From beginning to end EXCEPT they DIFFER in Styles of Recitation where VARIANT WORDS in Selected Verses make up that Style.
THE HISTORY
The people had started to criticize one another for reciting differently, so ‘Uthmaan united them by giving them one style of the Qur’aan.
When ‘Uthmaan made copies of the Qur’aan, he did so according to one style, but he omitted the dots and vowel points so that some other styles could also be accommodated.
The Mus-haf (Quran) that was copied in his time could be read according to other styles, and whatever styles were accommodated by the Mus-haf of ‘Uthmaan remained in use.
PROOF
The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kept asking Jibreel until he taught him seven styles, all of which were complete. The evidence for that is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas who narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Jibreel taught me one style and I reviewed it until he taught me more, and I kept asking him for more and he gave me more until finally there were seven styles.”
(narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3047; Muslim, 819)
The hadeeth of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab who said: “I heard Hishaam ibn Hakeem reciting Soorat al-Furqaan in a manner different from that in which I used to recite it and the way in which the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught me to recite it.
I was about to argue with him whilst he was praying, but I waited until he finished his prayer, and then I tied his garment around his neck and seized him by it and brought him to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, I heard this man reciting Soorat-al-Furqaan in a way different to the way you taught it to me.’
The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him, ‘Recite it,’ and he recited it as I had heard him recite it. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘It was revealed like this.’
Then he said to me, ‘Recite it,’ so I recited it and he said, ‘It was revealed like this.’ This Qur'aan has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easiest for you.’”
(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2287; Muslim, 818)
@@aaabrams1889 You wrote: “The problem is that the gospels in your bible were written by UNKNOWN Authors ACCORDING TO 'mthw', ACCORDING TO 'mark', ACCORDING TO 'luke' and ACCORDING TO 'john' - all written in the 3rd person and can't be trusted...”
*
Let us talk about third person: Allah speaks in the third person - this time, not of himself; but rather of another person who existed in the eternity past (before creation). In Quran 81: 19-21, Allah says, “Verily this (Quran) is the word of a most honorable messenger, endured with power, and with rank before the Lord of the throne.”
*
Wait a minute! How can that be? According to Muslims, the Quran is eternally un-created. Who is the honorable messenger who, before creation, spoke the eternally existing and uncreated Quran? Now, we have a different kind of “Trinity” in Islam that existed in the eternity past (before creation): (1) The un-created Allah, (2) The un-created Quran, and (3) The un-created honorable Messenger who spoke the un-created Quran into existence.
*
For the sake of argument, let us suppose that Muhammed is “The most honorable messenger, endured with power, and with rank before the Lord of the throne;” and according to Allah, “The Quran is the word of this honorable messenger (Muhammed).” That means the Quran is not form eternity; because Muhammed did not exist from eternity. [Science of Logic 101]
@@123dsj123
EVERYTHING IN THE QURAN IS ALLAH TALKING
You just BUSTED YOURSELF...ha ha ha
Saying : " In Quran 81: 19-21, Allah SAYS, “Verily this (Quran) is the word of a most honorable messenger, endured with power, and with rank before the Lord of the throne.”
NOTE
ALLAH SAYS (meaning is Allah talking here)
Verily this is the word of a noble message-bearer; (81:19) and this MESSENGER is Gabriel, a honorable messenger, endured with power, and with rank before the Lord of the throne.”
>>> No prophet was given this rank before the Lord of the throne and Gabriel was always the Angel of Revelation.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
YOU STATED
Now, we have a different kind of “Trinity” in Islam that existed in the eternity past (before creation): (1) The un-created Allah, (2) The un-created Quran, and (3) The un-created honorable Messenger who spoke the un-created Quran into existence.
REPLY
This is Bullshit to include the Pagan trinity as you can come up with ANY 3 ...ha ha ha...Also Angels were created (Gabriel)
And secondly Everything was CREATED by the CREATOR ALLAH, his WORD that was recorded in the preserved Tablet which included ALL THE SCRIPTURES - NOT only the Quran and ALLAH'S WORD was manifested to creation in many ways.
* Burning Bush of Moses speaking
* Torah - in a written tablet revealed in Arabia on Mt Sinai
* Jesus - living, walking and talking WORD OF ALLAH
* QURAN - ORAL RECITATION (Not written)
@@aaabrams1889 Sahih International
Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.
Who were other creators besides Allah? That's why he is the best of creators.
Is Allah blessing Allah here.
5 WE' s in this verse. Who are they?
This verse plagiarized Claudius Galen theory on embryology from the 2th century and modern science proves it's wrong.
@@ephesus2312
That is describing the fetus in the womb and it's scientifically accurate.
So how could a man in the desert know this 1400 years ago?
Mohammad (saw) was illiterate and there no books during his time.
The first major translator of Galen into Arabic was the Arab Christian Hunayn ibn Ishaq. He translated (c. 830-870) 129 works of "Jalinos" into Arabic and the Quran was already written.
We are creators as we were made with some of Allah's attributes - the bible says 'likeness'. Man also create cars, TV's, cell phones, etc BUT ALLAH IS THE BEST OF CREATORS.
Allah refers to Himself in the Quran as 'WE, US, OUR' as this is the plural of Majesty, the Royal Plural of Respect copied by Kings and Royalty.
Elohim means GOD, not gods, ask any Jew - Elo means God and the 'him' is a plural of respect. Mohammadim is the same, the 'im' is a plural of respect and in the bible as well.
Song of Solomon, chapter 5 verse 16, we read in Hebrew:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem." It means "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."
So the lower layer was frm Ah-lah, but someone wrote over it some decades later ! 🙀
Yes, erased the original Quranic text and replaced it with a fresh Quranic text that was NOT an identical copy of the earlier text!
I'd just like to correct one minor mistake from this video: the Sanaa Palimpsest can be found on 83 folios, equating to about half of the Quran (with about 95% textual agreement with the 1924 Hafs Quran edition - rasm text only - along with differences in the arrangement of Suras). The two Birmingham Folios, on the other hand, equate to only 63 verses of the Quran (with 99-100% textual agreement with the 1924 Hafs Quran edition - rasm text only).
it s not the case
@@luckytirtiono8445 Could you please explain what 'it' is?
@@gavinjames1145
Excellent information.
You may be correct, but can 70 differences in only 63 verses really calculate out as 99% identical? This is a sincere question. Is the average verse over 100 words long?
@@michaels4255 Hello! I read that the Birmingham Folios were 99-100% in agreement with the rasm text of the 1924 Hafs Quran edition as proposed in the following study:
STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF THE BIRMINGHAM QURAN FOLIOS AND COMPARISON WITH THE SANAA MANUSCRIPTS
H Sayood
Sorry, but I cannot post a direct link.
Most of the differences occur because of the silent aliph, according to the study. However, I have reasons to doubt the study findings for the Sanaa manuscripts (which were limited to only two folios).
Their doors are closed 🤣
As can be seen with Islam, Which forcefully upholds the point of view or every jot and title is perfectly preserved, to the point of violence if you disagree and then when it's disproved backtrack and say we didn't really think in scholarly circles that it was preserved, only the layman thought that, When in fact the layman were quoting the scholars, Yet now the scholars have thrown the Layman under the bus and said every Muslim is wrong, that's 1.6 billion wrong muslims for saying the Quran was perfectly preserved... In other words the muslims parrot what they have been told from Mosques on Fridays, Get caught out and have to back track while still pretending to have the final religion.
Proto Koran text is different from current Koran which was the real one of Muhammed then?
19:35 on...classic gaslighting by Shabbir. Don't believe what's right in front of your own eyes!
Does it make sense to draw conclusion about preservation by reading an old paper containing some text written by some unknown person. Complete text is available with vowel markers today published by Saudi Arabia. Try changing some vowels or words, then record audio and put it to forensic analysis. See what you get. Speech signatures will become distorted.
You may never have noticed sonic harmony in the text of Qur'an.
Consumer your energies and scholarship for some positive work.
In order to display their fair-mindedness Muslims, generally, do 2 things when mentioning Jesus.
1.) They emphatically say "Prophet" Jesus, to show that he's no Savior (even though we Christians never say, obsessively, "Savior Jesus or Jesus the Savior", so it's basically, at best, unnecessary, at worst, polemical);
2.) They add the other obsessive formula that they append to any mention of their own prophet, which, therefore, I guess, ends up occupying 15-20% of any theological discourse pronounced by a Muslim: i.e. "Prophet Jesus, Peace-be-upon-Him".
Dr. Shabir Ally is one of the most soft-spoken & truthful of contemporary Islamic scholars; so I wonder why, in this video, he remembered point 1.) but not point 2.). So he qualified Jesus as a prophet (not a savior), but omitted to wish peace upon him, at par with Muhammad. That was a remarkable lapse, coming from an honest Muslim like him. Were the actual implications of what he was admitting beginning to tell on his inner conscience, making him forget the obligations of courtesy to "Prophet Jesus"?
1) Hello - all the prophets were saviors.
2) All the prophets end with "Peace be onto you", not only Mohammad (saw)
Shabbir can be a good Story teller !
You popped a surprise on him in that debate. It wasn’t really fair on your part. He needed a chance to review the findings.
I love your work BTW.
They never claimed but lied that's morally Rong
Dr Ally's channel is called "Let the Quran speak". A good starting place would be to say which Quran?
Educate yourself and you will see that there is only ONE Quran.
@@aaabrams1889 I guess you didn't watch the video then. The Sanaa has 2 Qurans in one. That is before you get into the 30 plus that we have today.
@@John14.6
I guess that you were CONNED by Jay, as he normally deceive gullible xtians like you..ha ha ha
The Sanaa Palimpsest
(a manuscript or piece of writing material on which later writing has been superimposed on effaced earlier writing contains) with 83 folios - about half of the Quran.
FACTS
The Bottom Erased layer was written in the 7th century and the top visible layer in the 8th century.
95% textual agreement with the 1924 Hafs Quran edition - rasm text only - along with differences in the arrangement of Suras on the bottom layer of the erased folio and all are Quranic verses as we have it today.
THE VIDEO
Shabir is explaining the Sannaa codex - it is not even considered a Quran but a Codex or a Palimpsest and how IT was written - NOT THE QURAN AS A REVELATION or/and the Preservation of the Quran in it's entirety.
.
The Sannaa Palimpsest (Quran) is not the only hand written copy and Muslims have attested to the COPYIST'S mistakes of THAT Sannaa Codex.
PROOF THAT THE QURAN IS PERFECTLY PRESERVED
if you compare the MISTAKES from the scribe to another hand written Quran - IT'S NOT THERE,
HERE IS A EXPERT WHO STUDIED IT
Not a deceiver and gossiper like Jay!!!
Dr Joseph Lumbard - czcams.com/video/klr3Jy2e3mk/video.html
AND FROM MORE SCHOLARS
czcams.com/video/Mly9RZ50UtI/video.html
When it comes to what aboutism. What about "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth shall pass away, not even one iota, nor one stroke of a letter, shall pass away from the law, until everything should happen." Matthew 5: 18 Those writings in the Quran about perfect preservation can come from Christian teachings that expanded over the centuries too.
Thank God our bible had the Holy Spirit to supervise the bible and not merely men as Islam has for Koran
Did your holy spirit allow Filth, Porn, Incest, Pedophilia, Adultery, Rape, Myths, Absurdities etc. to be written in your corrupted bibles?
@@aaabrams1889 Yahweh NEVER approved of any of those sins, just recorded it down, but Allah caused those same sins for Muhammad to commit!
@@davidchase1439
So your HOLY book contains MORE SIN than good?
Do you remember that story in your corrupted bibles where that woman longed for PENISES AS BIG AS DONKEYS and it's Ejaculation as Strong as Stallion Horses (Ezekiel 23) .
If this story is about history and a lesson on spirituality, WHAT DOES THE SIZES OF PENISES and it Ejaculate got to do with it?
Shabir Ali says the Sanaa Palimpsest does not change the essence of Islam doctrinally. Does it?
(Edit addition: I presume that as there has been no reply in ten days that either nobody knows or the Sanaa Palimpsest does not change the essence of Islam doctrinally.)
0:40 I was 5 ft shorter back then
15:48 ive seen him in the jungle book
From outside yes, but inside ist like Kaa.
The quran is perfectly preserved, sewer by sewer, oops, I mean sura by sura!
Repeating "peace be upon him" continuously won't make mohammed any less cursed nor any less hellbound than he already is.
I admire the scientific spirit of enquiry and tracking all the differences. But do we really need Shabir's admission? I mean it is common knowledge that slightly different copies did exist and that Uthman did burn out those that came to his knowledge leaving only the canonized version. It's also known that many like Ibn Massoud were pissed off for demolishing their versions (each believing his version was the authentic one) to the point of sharing in the revolt against Uthman himself that ended in Uthman's overthrow and bloody demise
What he has said totally undermines Islam, and Islamic teaching. Not to mention undermines the Koran itself.
This video can be used against him. And all of Islam. He even says near the end that the Koran hasn't been suppressed, but just a few sentences earlier, spoke about it being nice that they could see what earlier Korans were like, before Uthman suppressed them. A clear Freudian Slip...
We do need admissions like this from Dr Ally, and on film, mainly because he is such a 'big player' within Academic Islam, and especially within the West today. It's also important that the world know just how much Dr Ally is now changing his own 'goal-posts' with these 6 admissions, bringing the Qur'an down to the level of every man-made book which is then elevated by men like him, to that of holy revelation.
@@horseradishpower9947
Shabir is explaining the Sannaa codex - it is not even considered a Quran but a CODEX and how IT was written - NOT THE QURAN AS A REVELATION or/and the Preservation of the Quran. The Sannaa CODEX (Quran) is not the only hand written copy and Muslims have attested to the COPYIST'S mistakes of THAT Sannaa Codex.
PROOF THAT THE QURAN IS PERFECTLY PRESERVED
it that if you compare the MISTAKES from the scribe to another hand written Quran, IT'S NOT THERE,
HERE IS A EXPERT WHO STUDIED IT
Not a deceiver and gossiper like Jay!!!
Dr Joseph Lumbard - czcams.com/video/klr3Jy2e3mk/video.html
@@pfanderfilms I downloaded this, because I suspect he will have to eventually delete it. But near the end, he makes a massive slip-up: he is talking about the Koran not being suppressed, but a couple or so sentences earlier, he talks about a pre-Uthman Koran before it was suppressed by Uthman. This is a massive admission, as it means that the scholars know that Uthman was suppressing alternative Korans.
It also puts Uthman in a more negative light. He becomes a suppressor of knowledge and revelation. Assuming that the SIN is correct, and there really was an Uthman, which I don't believe in.
But this video shows just how rattled these scholars are. The Saana Manuscript clearly is something they cannot ignore, or brush off. We now have a gauge as to how damaging it is to Islam.
Great video, by the way. Thank you for highlighting this Doctor Ally video for us all.
The Bibles with many contradictory statements is the words of God. What a fool believe.
Shabir has a difficult job to defend the SIN. Can’t trust a man with a beard as bad as his.
Muslims Lord Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to inspire the NT where did Allah do that for Koran in later editions then?
WHAT will this mean, then, for all the hard-headed and strict people in Pakistan, North India and so on??
Muslims it's now impossible to hold to one original and standard Koran ever existed in history before 1924!
If Allah would not allow one word to be changed, then why do these variations exist?