Why there is no way back for religion in the West | David Voas | TEDxUniversityofEssex
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Religion is in decline across the Western world. Whether measured by belonging, believing, participation in services, or how important it is felt to be, religion is losing ground. Society is being transformed, and the momentum appears to be unstoppable.
You might be asking yourself two questions. Is it actually true? And even if religion is currently losing ground, could things change in the future?
David is a quantitative social scientist with a background in demography. He serves on the executive committee of the European Values Study and is co-director of British Religion in Numbers (www.brin.ac.uk), an online centre for British data on religion that has received recognition as a British Academy Research Project. He serves on the editorial boards of the British Journal of Sociology and the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion. With Mike Brewer, David directs the ESRC Research Centre on Micro-Social Change (MiSoC). He is also Deputy Director of ISER.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at ted.com/tedx
Left islam a year ago. Never been happier.
Welcome to Humanity Bro ☺️
Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.
Sulaiman Ben Nakhi PC in a nutshell ;)
That's like the sjw motto except they never forget what to say.
well to be perfectly honest with you and with the fullness of time and all things cocsidered and things being what they are and still open to other views and not to be critical of other views nor in any way to detract from from those views and opinions and my cat not being any blacker than your cat nor to step on your sensibilities I in my humble opinion agree with what you were going to say had you said it
Paul stewart, Eid Mubarak!!
thank you and Eid mubarak
I was removed from Sunday school for being a "disruptive influence". Just about the first thing I learned about religion was that asking questions and expecting answers was forbidden. I found community and a sense of wonder, awe and human scale in physics and astronomy instead.
Some, I might even say few, have an innate sense of the spiritual and seek it out. We find it where we will.
Glad you found yours.
@@brokenrecord3523 Some people have the innate belief that they are Napoleon. It's called a delusion.
@@dimbulb23 please look up innate.
@@brokenrecord3523 You have a natural tendency to sense the spiritual. Another may naturally think they are Napoleon, either could a delusion. Just because a tendency is innate doesn’t preclude the possibility that it’s also inane.
@@dimbulb23 You can't have an innate belief you are Napoleon because you can't have an innate knowledge of Napoleon. You like to use words in a way that tries to trick people into thinking they have more meaning than they do, much how quotes get popular, because they sound good, but as you point out, are inane.
I was raised evangelical (the one TRUE religion according to them) and started falling away during high school. I continued going to church for a year or two just to please my mother. When I left home that was the end of church going for me. It took me 35-40 years to work through the indoctrination but at age 75 I can now call me myself a proud atheist. I don't want to believe, I want to know the truth. I'm a science gal now.
35 years - that's all it takes for an American - fair enough - no disrespect to you. Unfortunately your country still cannot shed its past. No, shred, not just shed.
Yes, I can relate with what you are saying. The trouble with following a religion, any religion, is that even when we know from the facts as we see them today from our experience, that some or many things are not right with our religion, we continue to follow it. (Is it out of fear or the insecurity of being separated from a group?).
There comes a time when we realize that just believing something we heard from someone (without asking ourselves how much of it is true or not) is not enough. Now, we want to know things, not believe in things, and we realize that unless we discard the beliefs, our minds will block us from ever knowing the truth.
>> I want to know the truth. I'm a science gal now
@@pontificusvascillious5287 pointless comment.
I'm a former atheist who changed my mind because of scientific facts. Later I started reading the Bible and believing it was God's word .
He touched on it briefly but, in the US, religion has become increasingly entangled with political extremism, racism, greed and bigotry that has also had an effect on participation.
That's religion. For centuries the catholic church was more powerful than nobility itself, and proabably richer. This is organized religion at it's finest.
I'm not at all religious, but your assessment is almost completely incorrect.
@@theamalgamut8871 If we're speaking about Europe, churches in America are rather small and run by a pastor not a priest.
European churches are huge and filled with gold and splendor. That is why fewer and fewer people in Europe declare themselves as "believers", not because they stop believing, but because they see what is happening in the church (as an institution) and they are sick of it.
@@Dread_2137 Of course. There never was a real nobility thing in the US. In Europe there was Clergy, Nobility and People. For centuries. That was the social structure of most countries. And Clergy had it's own rules, courts, taxes. It was a state inside a state and man...they got rich as f**k.
@@theamalgamut8871 answering the fact that the church has been rich in the nobility in Europe. I have to say that even tho you're right, Europe developed way better than the rest of the world due to the competence between the church, nobility, crown, merchants, and the military. I'm afraid to tell you that Cristianism was one of the best things that could happen to the west throughout all history, as it provided a better treatment of women, a scientific revolution (yes, it reached to the conclusion that 'as God created the world, therefore studying the world one would be closer to God'. And Islam had the opposite conclusion, destroying science), the idea of progress, and a sense of morality based on guilt. It has done a lot of bad stuff in history, but every section of society has committed atrocities in history.
As a 30-something year old, Christianity would be substantially more appealing to me if Christians actually embraced the principles taught by Jesus Christ: Generosity, Kindness, Empathy, and Acceptance.
And crucifixion, self sacrifice, torture, reincarnation, etc... Beautiful.
@@zuhairroomaney10 and killing people who are working on Sunday
You sound like a man who has never studied the bible for yourself
@@zuhairroomaney10 Reincarnation might actually be a thing though.
@@squamish4244 based on what could reincarnation possibly be a thing?
Yes, I think this all makes sense. I was raised in the 1960s and 1970's; my parents sent us kids to Sunday school and we all sat for the main service, but they didn't really seem to believe. There was no Bible reading at home, and little mention of religious belief. As far as I know, we attended because they knew it was the way to be accepted and acceptable within the small-town community where we lived. Three of us four kids left religious attendance behind when (or before) we became adults. One of us vehemently despises the hypocrisy and snootiness that she witnessed as the congregation ostracized people who couldn't afford to dress according to their standards. After I left, I looked back on it as mass hypnotism of a sort, or maybe mass delusion would be a better term. I've been away for nearly five decades and can't imagine how I'd be convinced to return to it.
Same for me I went to church when I was young but children can tell when parents don’t believe. Too bad your dad actually has blood authority over his children to cast out demons and spirits. When you dad judges you on the world because of his authority he actually cursing you but when he prays for you he blesses you. Too bad that knowledge was lost to the majority of people.
I was raised with religion, and by the time I was 13, I was already wondering about all the logical inconsistencies, and not wanting any thing to do with it.
Later in life, I took a deeper look, and know for sure, religious way of seeing the world, is not for me.
Same here.👍
The world-view of self is very narrow but is blind to the limitations it imposes.
Yoda: "Your focus is your reality."
Humility is understanding the stories your mind creates are both limited, and, not what is "really out there."
@@Rightlydividing-wx1xb
Exactly.
I have a deep faith in God, but I don't "go to church" or even believe most of what they are spewing from their pulpits. I am not "religeous" at all -
So much in the Bible is not preached, so much of what is preached is not in the Bible.
@@Rightlydividing-wx1xb yes it is, as is the word god.
I generally mean anything supernatural, but specifically in my case Judaism.
@@glenliesegang233
And what is "really out there", Gods and Monsters?
I'm a 3rd generation Atheist. I am from Rhode Island, USA. My kids are 4th generation. I was raised with love, logic, and education. The same is with my children.
On what do you base your hope that life will sustain you?
If nothing exists which sustains life over death, growth over decay, meaning over meaningless, why is it you act/behave/trust (without, of course, intellectual assent to/"believe") minute to minute, as if there is some kind of life-affirming "something" which does?
Does this not make you a closet deist?
Do the laws of physics act as if your existence is to be encouraged?
@Glen Liesegang I'm not a closet anything. No god(s) of any kind, actually exist. All religions are man made. I love Marvel Comic books, but I understand that Ironman isn't real. Our solar system alone is 5 billion years old, as humans were just a blip in time.
@Glen Liesegang There's an amazing CZcams channel called:
"Holy Koolaid" check it out.
@@jenniferbates2811 but, do you behave as if the universe behaves more as the theists say, or as the nihilist?
What is this "thing" you place your trust in? A childish naivete which allows you to ignore the hideous truth- there is no safety net?
Is the sublime mere neurochemistry? "Love" mere evolution-based neurobiology? What you feel for your newborn, synthesized glamorization?
If evolution is blind, and chaos is the real deal, how do you account for your sense that, indeed, Einstein's life affirming world-view is the correct one? Or that from quarks and their nteractions on up to human global civilizations, the degree of orderliness to it all is clearly seen, but unimaginable?
What separates me from my parents, their parents, so forth is i grew up with access to the internet, the ability to read and learn about anything i wanted, all they knew was what they were taught by their parents, i have more options to pursue what feels right for me. Those before me didn't have the same options i do with all the knowledge that a few pushes on a keyboard with google can bring. Those before us really only had one thing in the religious category that they knew about, and doors opened up for us presenting us with many different belief systems and religions, it has become more of a people know can carve their own paths instead of going down ones already laid out for us. The ability to be more independent in your religious beliefs i think is quiet nice.
We had books before you were born
@@andrewwalsh816 Yeah but even still since when did the average person go out and get books on random subjects like this, it was rare as subjects like different religions didn't even cross most peoples minds, especially for people who live in the bible belt.
and ill educated parents indoctrinated us. I was sent to a church school and rebelled at about age 7 had no faith and in her 60s my mom became an atheist after indoctrinatng her 4 kids lol
The wealth of knowledge provided by the internet is almost equal to the ignorance, fake news, and conspiracy theories that it peddles. It is incumbent upon all of us to use science and logic, to winnow the chaff from the grain, and blow away falsehood from superstition, and be not become sorry victims of ignorance.
It's pretty obvious you are not as smart as you make yourself out to be. Just take a look back 100 years ago, well before the internet, and tell me how 'uneducated' the middle class were then. (I am not including the working class as they would be stuck in the fields and factories just like they do today). First you might notice that every home had a piano, and that learning to play it was a normal part of education. Maths was mental, and great feats of engineering was done with slide rules - not least the Moon missions. Back in the early part of the 20th century Flight, Radio, and nuclear energy was discovered with the likes of Albert Einstein unlocking the secrets of the Universe. All without the internet. There were millions of highly educated people who would leave you standing still intellectually. And most of these people of science, art, music and engineering attended Church. Without the Muslims, we would not have Algebra. Don't be so quick to diss the past and our legal system has had a large contribution from religious ethics and morality. Sure there is a lot of 'information' on the internet, but without decent curation, its hard to turn it into knowledge for most people. Hence the level of ignorance is outstanding now. But great cat videos on CZcams!
I am from El Salvador, I was VERY religious for 45 years, then I had a spiritual abuse, and then I revaluated, I was religious because
1. I was born and I learned that I was not capable to face my life
2. I was a bad person IF I became free, without depending on God, in this case, on the religious group
3. If you want certainty, love, then you have to look for a religious group,
HOWEVER, during the pandemic, I expected the pastors were going to help, however, they received money, our work, cause they were the pastors, who guide us.... too naive, during the pandemic my problems were mine.... all of the promises they made was.... you misunderstand us.
That must have been a difficult and brutal awakening and realization. However you have gained wisdom and show YOU have your own strength and control in your life.
A little light of knowledge can defeat any dark corner. There is actually a recognized syndrome called Religious Trauma, shows how it is brainwashed into you and designed to control you with fear and self-hate. You impress me in your recovery I hope all goes well, you will find if interested in science there is so much to learn, and you have been lied to a great deal.
GET YOU A URANTIA BOOK LOOK IT UP IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND
I love this guy's message and delivery. I'm going to add him to my bedtime, relaxing talkers line up. David Butler is still king.
Sam Harris is good for that too
As a norwegian I can confirm you pretty much take it for granted that everyone you meet is not religious. And if someone is, one almost assumes they have some emotional trauma they are dealing with. Most "religious" beliefe is a deeply private, personal thing, here. Often found among middle aged or older women who are fairly conservative and kind, concerned with children.
It's hardly a theme, here, generally. Nobody speaks much about it in public. It's a matter between friends and family. Something you open up about to your partner or close friend.
Yeah, Norway is pretty messed up.
Very important comment. It is within Christian Biblical teaching: "I did not come for the righteous." Wonder what the Norwegian view of right and wrong; or, justice is?
@@clavo3352 Humanitarian views grounded in evolutionary biology, mosty. It's in everyones interest to live in a world where we treat each other well. Other animals do that to a large extent, too. Us humans have just expanded and expanded our circle of moral consideration past tribes, race and even species to some degree. And we have been able to do that thanks to our ability to think ahead, reflect on our values and actions, and our advanced communication skills. Other than that we are just another animal.
So essentially - just like religious morality - it is grounded in an internal desire to be personally rewarded in the long run. It's just that the reason for it being "good" is grounded in our universal interests to avoid suffering, and seek pleasure/comfort. "It is good to help my neighbour, because then he will be good to me back, spread the rumour of my kindness, and it will reward me in the long run" - hence our emotional motivators gives us positive emotions when we help our neighbour.
Most norwegians probably never think about this, tho, and only act according to what they have learned is socially acceptable, or what their empathy guides them away from doing. Most people seem to be motivated mostly by a desire to be socially accepted, which is understandable for a social species. But this social trait is also what can lead to moral disasters. It's the dark side of a social species, that most people are willing to do terrible things in order to fit in with their "group".
Other norwegians who are privately spiritually minded might appeal to a supernatural authority to ground morality, similar to christians.
Hope this can help you understand :)
@@fromeveryting29 It makes logical sense to me. Only thing it leaves out is the experience of miracles. That's interesting about your view that "we are only animals." I would argue that clairvoyance is real and that is different from human to human telepathy that even dogs and horses can easily engage in. I'm referring to the cosmos type signaling. But, that's me. Others may have different experiences.
@@clavo3352 I like that you brought that up. I myself have had experiences that seemed to trancend time, and I have a difficult time fitting that into my mostly materialistic worldview. My experiences MIGHT be only my own misremembering and misinterpreting. I find that more likely, to be honest, but I'm still not convinced that there isn't some dimension that trancends ours and has to do with consciousness.
And if there is, animals are part of that, too. In my own experience with other animals they have as much a sophisticated ability to sense and feel, as we do, perhaps even a greater ability. Only they can't theorize and make logical meaning out of it - something humans seem to be pretty obsessed with, haha.
Meanwhile, there are tons who were raised with religion.
And find it completely unnatural.
Yep, I don't think it's mainly a matter of familiarity.
Even so, the kids who aren't raised religiously, their parents probably were, and if not their grandparents were.
It's a matter of changing culture, that has been going on for multiple generations.
Religions have become culturally less important over time, and so people have less reason to join religions, and more reason to leave them.
Back when people lived in small communities, religion played a central role, now that role has diminished.
Now the world is more connected than ever, and people are introduced to new ideas all the time.
Yes, I was raised in religion, but the moment I started thinking about it, in my teens, I knew is was absolute bollocks. That is now 35 years ago,
With education and studying science throughout our lives. I think that’s when it becomes unnatural for us since science makes more sense. As numbers do not lie but my parents did.,
Some would say... it's supernatural! Huehuehue, but actually. Screw religion.
And that number is getting smaller and smaller every generation. That was one of the speaker's main points and cannot be debated.
What a relief to hear this. Now 7 years later it's even more so.
More religious or in more decline?
It would be interesting to hear his current opinion on it. I am not seeing anything new from him on the interwebs.
@@joewilson3393 - it's not hard to find the latest statistics. Religion is still on its way out in the West. And interestingly, even the protests in Iran are going in the same direction quite forcefully. As some protesters have very clearly said, it's not about headscarves...
@@1155727But in America, religion is also big business and there are strong interests from republicans in turning America into a theocracy. Trends exist of Bible motivated anti abortion, anti LGBT and creationism in schools that are undermining modern progress here.
In places like the US religion, ignorance, bigotry, etc are gaining ground.
I am 67, catholic, when I was young in catholic school I was taught to be honest, kind to others, help others, don't judge others, don't try to force your beliefs on other. Teach by example, treat others as you want to be treated. The priest and nuns didn't talk about thier politics , my priest always said if someone believes in God that is good, that there is only one God he is just in many forms. I always took that to mean we all believe in the same God just know him in different ideas. I was always taught to respect others and thier opinions. The key is respect
Religious people are fundamentally dishonest so can never be trusted. You for instance.
People are discovering they can/are living a moral and spiritual life without Religion and god belief(s)
The key is morals have always been independent of Religion.
Atheist here. I have no problem with the kind of faith you described and, in fact, I wholeheartedly support it. Hope you have a great life... ❤
"You have to be raised with religion to find it natural." Exactly so.
yep.... all it takes is to have a set of lazy parents and you grow up to be a half-wilted atheist attempt...
@Intelligence Not being opposed to religion is not the same thing as finding it natural. To find religious belief 'natural' would be to believe that people arrive at a religious position spontaneously, simply by virtue of being part of nature, without having it suggested by seeing it first observed by other human beings. Nobody is in this position. We are all born into communities, and those communities have particular views about religious beliefs. Specific religions - rather than a vague, hypothetical 'religious belief' - have specific content: beliefs, rituals and so on. Many of those beliefs and rituals are complicated, and very unnatural, to the point at which they have to be consciously transmitted from generation to generation, because the chance of their being rediscovered as 'facts of nature' is essentially nil. Without such instruction, and without the social reinforcement of some kinds of belief, particular religions would die out rapidly.
Unless you find your way to reason and atheism after a religious upbringing.
Utter and total nonsense. I was raised in an irreligious family and now am an on-fire Christian. Jesus is not a religion. He is alive and Christianity is a relationship with him.
Jesus died, how can you have a relationship with someone that does not exist?
You're supposed to ge able to see touch and talk to people you have a relationship with.
Please, someone, get this man a glass of water
Naaah ...
Just keep him inside the red circle. Don't let him step out again and again and again!
His microphone is too close to his mouth.
I think he has a very nice voice.
It won’t be turned into wine. ;-)
Hopelessly, what he made is not even argument but fact. Strangely, it is the nature of gospel's prophecy, that the popular way is the doomed one.
I'm British, 62 years old, and when I had a count up the other day the total number of people I've met in my life who were in any way religious is 12. Half of those were relatives of people I actually knew like their parents who I met only once or twice. Ok so it's 12 too many but I think it throws these censuses into doubt. Many people will reflexively say they are whatever religion their parents are whilst not actually believing themselves or going to church. It's kind of like an ethnic thing rather than a religious one to them. If 50% of the population really was religious in the UK I would have thought I'd have met a lot more of them.
You’re lucky.
Your point about reflex is really interesting. I'm 75 and nearly 60 years ago I joined the Royal Canadian Air Force. I particularly remember the question asking what my religion was. I was very young, but I still remember that my reflexive answer was Christian. I thought that everyone must cough up a religion - so I did. I described myself as agnostic back then and an atheist today. Thank you.
That question left an indelible mark in my mind - I must have thought and puzzled over it.
Agree with you. Especially with many people who are “Christian” who are Christian merely because they were born in a particular country/community without being particularly zealous about it.
Have you asked every person you met about their religiosity?
Old catholic school joke:
"How can you tell the private catholic school kids from the public school kids? The catholic school kids are all atheists." Ha. Sloghtly true. As one myself, I say, "I put my time in."
Not everyone will believe, Catholics are no exception..that's obvious..all people who call themselves Christian, are not,,that's obvious too..If one does not allow the door to open, one will never accept what's on the other side..rebellion is the way of the world..
A good ( better education) knowledge of thinking and asking questions is detrimental to religion plus the bible itself is similar to a comic book
@@bradzimmerman3171 I can introduce you to a huge number of people who prove your simple picture very distorted (myself included). The more I think, the deeper is my faith. A comic book? Rrrright - so Shakespeare is like Miley Cyrus lyrics to you, and Mozart is like ad jingles?
@davy boy It's a wonderfully rich story, with so many angles of meaning, including rebirth, cleansing old habits, tenacity when all hope seems gone - so many meanings.
It was the out right lies that the priests and nuns tried to give me that turned me off. Its like they thought they were the chosen ones and therefore infallible and anything they said was supposed to be believed without question.
One thing I noticed about supposedly educated religious people is their very narrow field of education. Seems they can only take a little bit of blasphemy by actually learning something useful, but nothing else was allowed.
Being able to fact check anything religion claims to do has greatly helped. This trend will continue as information becomes more available to the masses.
And non believers or doubters not being burned stoned exiled or outcast-ed has helped a million too .
@@BennettStevens22 prove ANY of the thousands of gods exist first .
Then explain why they have to threaten people to worship them
@@ziemayet they created many God's at the tower of babble but there is only one true God. You would already know that if you read the bible for yourself
@@BennettStevens22 i have the same arguement with muslims.
And guess what?
I have read the quran just as the bible.
Both are great ancient books.
But when looked at objectively they are no mpre insightful than nursery rhymes.
And we grow out of nursery rhymes.
@Razimbaud Sauvons_le A scientist can read and study a million books and will still be eager to know, learn and discover more. Religious people read one book and they will claim to 'know it all'.
Religion is losing ground because people are increasingly more educated.
No - selfish, spoilt and half-educated.
@davy boy Anti-religious belief always cultivates ignorance of any religious viewpoint.
@@tonybuck1225 Thats.... such a non sequiter.
The very reason that I'm atheist is because
1. I was not raised or indoctrinated into a religion
2. I have looked at religion and seen that with most religions, they claim falsehoods or ideas that contradict science
3. Because of said rejection/ignorance of science, moral systems are developed that I disagree with
4. Because of the subsequent subjectivity of a religious interpretation, a religion can be used to push literally any agenda you please.
The 4th point is quite important because its mostly religious people who hate me for existing, want me dead, want me tortured forever, constantly harass me, want me to not have equal rights, want me to be an underclass to society, want me to not exist in the same spaces as them, and were I their child, would throw me out of the home and disown me for being me. I have friends who are in that exact position for the same reasons I don't want to be.
I'm personally glad religion is declining. I want it over. The good it has is far outweighed by the bad it does and the potential for massive harm it holds in my view.
@@entropy7999 You were raised and indoctrinated in non-religious (i.e. anti-religious) views.
Which can be used to push any agenda, any code of morality, you please.
Religion isn't declining, except in the terminally-declining countries of the West.
Yes, some religious people (like many non-religious people, for that matter) can be harsh and judgemental towards others; against the warning from Jesus Christ: "Judge not and you shall not be judged, condemn not and you shall not be condemned."
@@tonybuck1225 Oh also need to add this:
Didn't even realize you conflated being anti-religious with being non-religious. Assuming that anybody who doesn't agree with you hates you now? To be clear, I am anti certain religions. Mainly Christianity. Christianity does make my blood boil and I firmly hold the position that the world would likely be better were it never thought up. Notice how religion, especially Christianity, was used to justify so many wars throughout history? To destroy literature and knowledge, to kill other humans? We're on the same page here right?
(oh and to be perfectly transparent - I don't hate people based off of religion, I hate the religion itself. I don't blame the people in the system, most were probably raised into it as a child)
Aaaaaanyways that should be all. Look forward to your response! :)
I was raised with religion but once I reached third grade, I began asking very uncomfortable questions, the answer for which was either "because it just is" or "do as I say" and neither was satisfying. It caused me to look at actual evidence and realized it is more a grand, shared illusion to enrich a church. I realized if I looked at a church as just another business on main street, things clicked. The difference was they sold lies wrapped as comfort and hatred as love. It was a telling moment for me and I've rejected it out of whole cloth since.
Cap 🧢 or you were surrounded by idiots!
Raised Catholic. I never believed any of it (except Santa Clause). When I got a bit older, I found that it is an option. My parents allowed me to stop going to church. They stopped themselves because they had never believed it-- but they just followed the teaching that it was a good idea to raise a child with religion. That was sometime in the 1970s. I have been non-religious/athiest since.
If you don’t grow up with it, you don’t miss it.
Good point. Most people i know , don't even see themselves atheists. They never bothered with religion because they didn't grew up with it. So they just see it as a form of superstition. The few vocal atheists i know are former Christians.
@@spiritualanarchist8162 explain to me how you can be spiritual without believing in a higher entity.
@@spiritualanarchist8162 I meant you collectively not you specifically.
@@supernova5107 The oceanic feeling
@@spiritualanarchist8162 atheism means you have no belief in a higher power. They are atheist even if they don't give it any thought. Atheist in the original Latin means without a god.
I have 1 child. My mom had 2. My grandmother had 4. My great grandmother had 8 and wasn't even sure of how many brothers and sisters she had. Her estimate was around 20. Birth control and the internet didn't do religion any favors.
Nor did prayers help my late grandmother to cure tumor. When doctor tell my grandmother that she have tumor & we advice her to take surgery and remove she refused saying that God always do what is right. Its funny how u all preach that God is omnipotent and perform miracles however he cant do simple thing like remove tumor, a thing so simple that any surgeon can do it.
@Total StrangerThing
“GoD’s WiLL” is what a typical theist will tell you happened there… because they have no real answer.
So your family is basically dying out is what I take from your comment, meanwhile the earths population just continues to grow ?
Birth decline has been similar in my family history. Ancestors also had large families because infant mortality was high. advances in medicine and reduction of disease have reduced the need for large families. This also explains the high birth rate in third-world countries. In the west, the economy and cost of raising children is probably the greatest factor in the decision to maintain small families. Religions have certainly been responsible for the World's problems of over population.
"the internet didn't do religion any favor" Why schould it have?
I once asked religious friends why god created genetic disorders such as autism and downsyndrome. The answer I got was that I should just focus on my life. Is it so hard to just say "we don't know"?
The faster we rid ourselves of the burden of organized religion, the faster we will evolve away from greed and selfishness.
THIS
Be careful what you wish for. We may be heading for nihilism and a complete breakdown of community.
Do you really believe that greed and selfishness will go away once organized religion is eradicated ?
@@rachelanne2968 honestly the opposite might happen.
@@amoebagaming9019 Exactly, the problem is not religion, but human nature.
Once you begin to question religion,, it begins to not make sense anymore, and when that happens it's over
Not if you ask the right questions.
Groovism is the in-born religion .... with no question!!!
You start questioning religion the more you get less answers that make sense the more you get lost in trying to find what's actually in front of you
Take it from someone who was once very religious. Once you're done with it it's going to be for good.
I mean you wont get the answer to anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ saying a high and mighty being created us without any proof he even existed and just believing he exists because a book told you so is nonsense to me but hey thats just my opinion
Buuuurn..."most of the world is religious, but most of the world is underdeveloped..."
"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." - 1 Corinthians 1:27
Maybe that's not such a bad thing. I sometimes think that most of us would be much better off if we had our material things taken away to humble us. I honestly can't feel anything but admiration for people who live in hard conditions and still survive.
Religion is just the child like state that societies have to grow though, but once people have safety, education and a stable government has evolved, religion decreases.
Thanks, culture and custom. Will explain your religious beliefs 99.9% the time
Allen Colvin ...... so basically your saying if you are not educated or come from a deprived background you will find God. So if you come from the other end of the scale you will have the sense to reject God. Yet the bible teaches us that the things that the world can offer such as material objects and money nearly always bring the wrong outlook on life and send us to look for and commit more and more sinful acts. Being educated certainly does not mean you will always make the best decisions but certainly can make you believe that you don’t need a saviour. That in itself is mans biggest downfall. God bless
My grandparents, parents, and aunt and uncle ALL of whom (except my father's father who was always staunchly atheist) were at least midly religious early in their early to middle adulthood, ALL lost all religion and vocally and vehemently denied the validity of all religious belief by the time they were 60.
Some can get out and have stronger wills with better ethics and morals. Some just stay in ignorance and fear.
I fell out of religion at around 17 years old after meeting people of different faiths and social backgrounds. I couldn’t imagine a god that would burn these lovely people for all of eternity just for simply not believing in him/her. From my current perspective it all seems pretty silly. Like believing in Santa or the Tooth Fairy.
These comment sections are always so friendly and understanding :)))))
Ya dont ask questions u dont want answers 2
🖕
there is nothing stopping you from starting the walk with Jesus. He calls you personally. He loved you into existence. He waits at your door for you to let him in. He does not force himself onto you. What are you waiting for? Ask Jesus to reveal himself to you
@@mrfink-lf5pq "He [Jesus] does not force himself onto you." Indeed, he cannot; this is the only true statement in your comment.
@@mrfink-lf5pq I was talking to Jesus the other day and he told me that you people who proclaim him the most don't know anything about him. The feeling you get is just you talking to yourself.
Ok, make up your mind, either get in the red circle or get out!
ha
:')
You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out.
You put your right foot in, and you change position to look at a different camera angle while the microphone picks up the smacking and slurping sounds of your lips.
@hames stanfield Yep.
That type of joke is called the bait and switch.
😂😂
My husband and I were very fortunate to escape the Seventh Day Adventist church/cult. Life is soooooo much better and we’re far happier!!
My family got totally engrossed with that cult. Some still are. What a bunch of quack nuts!
The only thing to take from that cult may be vegetarian diet.
For sure.
My friend, who is SDA, thinks half the students in SDA colleges are today atheist or agnostic.
Can't say I've given it much thought. However since 'religions are 'human-made', can't imagine myself following any doctrine. And I say this knowing my own shortcomings as a human. Spirituality, yes. Too many happenings in my 85 years tell me there's a 'something' higher than myself running my show! grateful!!!
The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, so it wasn't "human made".
I can live well without any religion, and feel pretty comfortable with my agnosticism.
People will become religious when the western world starts collapsing in the next 10-15 years! Look to the past: Major widespread crisis, more people go to church. If you think there's a good chance you might die, you go to church hoping there's something beyond death all of a sudden!
@@gamingtonight1526 I am likely to die soon., the next few months. But I have never and won't embrace the absurdity of religion.
I left Christianity for awhile for 2 years and aread abook which tell me about Christianity and now iam Christian again , believe me Christian is great , lovely
@@souloftheage I don't know who you are personally nor presentially, but I sincerely wish you a good life from now on
@@gamingtonight1526 or they go to church to get out of the cold and pretend to believe whatever so they can be warm for an hour.
Actually, I'm a US citizen in my sixties and abandoned religion for naturalism fairly recently. It does happen.
WHAT IS NATURALISM PLEASE?
AH, naturalism is a wrong focus
@John Smith I think naturalism is just the 'science' based darwinist,evolutionist/paganist and or atheistic way of looking at the world,,it is only my opinion of course, but it's like teenagers, who think they know it all and have it all figured out, at some point life smacks their illusions and they can either be open to learn or they dont
@UCaFbIJTlqPsml78t_doUc8Q there is no fear created by us..if you are a believer or have the potential to believe at some point in your future than the fear of separation would exist, otherwise a non believer/atheist/pagan etc...would not have fear because they simply don't believe, so why would it matter what I say?...as far as 'religious people' go, I speak for noone and noone speaks for me, fact is fact and fiction is fiction simple as that..p.s..i am not sure what you were saying when you said 'that is a sin in your religion'?..I sin by definition of being human, try not to, strive to be better daily, can't walk on water nor will I ever..
@@michaelarchangelthehammer "ah"?? Moron.....
Life got easier and made more sense once I lost my faith.
Yassssss!
Absolutely!!!
I feel freer than I’ve ever been.
And I have a data driven cognition AND intuition thought & feel process.
Not being bound by ancient antiquated scriptures & indoctrination and socialization is amazingly astoundingly liberating.
My cousin told me that you need a religion for “the spiritual guidance that directs your life”.
I now do that by observation of the world, followed by interpretations of those findings.
Same here.
Sorry dude not for me it's seems to got much harder since I've came out admitted to myself and to other people that I do not believe in Christianity.
@@yourname-mz1jo The social group rejection can be difficult. But there’s other entities.
One further point to add to my comment is that, there is a trend toward traditionalism within religious groups which was not there 50 years ago where there was a trend toward modernisation within religious groups. That is, there is a sense of less religiosity, but in another sense there is more religiosity among those who remain religious within a more secular society, especially with younger people.
I asked my late twenties Vanuatu taxi driver if he thought it was good or bad that the missionaries changed their culture? He looked me in the eye and said "It was good for you ". "Why is that?" I replied. "He said "Because you probably would taste pretty good".
lol good point.
Lord that was funny 😂
????????
Well played!!
Is this related to american culture? Cause I don't get it
If a perfect omnipotent, omnipresent god existed, who wanted us to believe in him, that god would know exactly how much evidence it would take to convince every single person of its existence.
Two Sheds - And he has done that, and more. But sadly, most people can't be bothered to take the time to seek out the evidence.
@@horsesense6173 he has? Next time he reveals himself he has to do it in public.
@@pipsantos6278 - He does. Every day. If you cannot see him then you choose to be blind. Bless you.
Why is he so hung up with people believing in him.?Nothing to do with morality.
@@Doriesep6622 - Because he wants people to live with him in heaven but this privilege is reserved for believers. God wants everyone to believe and worship him but he allows people to accept or reject him. Of course, when a person rejects God then by default, that person has accepted existing for eternity in the house of Satan.
Can't come soon enough. I was dragged to church, most Sundays, throughout my school years, but never connected with any aspect of it ... if anything, the longer I was involved the more the unanswered questions, and evidence of hypocrisy, piled up, which sent me in the exact opposite direction ... science, reason, and reading broadly. When I was finally released from the obligation, it saddened my olde-world father, but I finally felt free of a "nonsensical charade". Realizing I was "Progressive, Humanitarian and atheist" just seemed natural, and sensible. Personally, I think that time would've been far more valuable to society if they taught kids; nutrition, growing, and cooking, food ... or personal finance ... or empathy, and special needs awareness ... or critical thinking ... or animal care, and conservation ... other languages ... almost, any trade or skill would do
Amen brother!
My grandmother was born in the late 1800s in Australia. She was a modern strong woman. Non religious, left her body to science, as did my mother. Imo those that are better educated tend to be less religious. Here in Australia I don't know any religious person in my circle of family and friends
but you likely know people who may be 'spiritual but not religious'- those who seriously allow themselves to study the possibility of the continuation of consciousness after bodily death. The studies ARE out there and at esteemed universities and think tanks as well... it's just that scientific materialists- another form of fundamentalism- will not consider the NDE or OOBE studies of Princeton University, Cornell, the Univ. of Virginia or the scientific study organizations such as the Institute of Noetic Science started by astronaut Edgar Mitchell. And that's too bad, because there is a lot of research to be done in these areas.
My dad is Catholic and he is a mechanical engineer. My uncle is catholic and he is a chemical engineer and computer scientist. My older brother is a fencing contractor and an atheist. I'm Australian as well but all the educated members of my family are either Catholic or English United.
*guy talks from an unbiased standpoint about the social and economic causes of religious decline*
*comment section wages war over religion vs secularism*
It's fun though!
Nathan Lang Firstly the guy does not have an unbiased standpoint. He views the situation from a western European standpoint and with colonial mindset forces his views relevance on a global scale.... secondly, the reason the comments section is full of conflict between secularism vs religion is because we live in a post 9/11 world where the ideological conflict is no longer communism v capitalism but attack and suppression of a resurgant Islam amongst muslims
@Nathan_Lang, it’s an age-old story.....
... when one’s worldview is challenged, the amygdala (in the limbic system) experiences a substantial increase in electrical activity, blood flow, and neurotransmitter activity. That region of the brain governs threat evaluation and sensations of fear and anger. This can be observed with fMRI scans.
It just so happens that in the brain of devout theists, this region of the brain is larger and possesses comparatively more grey matter than the brain of a rational skeptic. The skeptic conversely possesses more mass, grey matter, and neural activity (comparatively) in the prefrontal cortex which governs responses to uncertainty (anterior cingulate cortex) evaluates contradictions and logical inconsistencies (dorsal medial and ventral medial prefrontal cortices) and stimulates (via dopamine) the desire to obtain new and novel information.
A diminished or more modest prefrontal cortex will be unable to undertake the aforementioned tasks in some instances and will thus default to the amygdala to make decisions.
So the former reacts strongly and quickly to perceived threats based on emotions, and rationalizes decisions afterward, while the latter experiences little or no threat and so is free to examine information unencumbered, and is even emotionally galvanized to learn more.
Cognitive neuroscience rocks!
@@p.bamygdala2139 - do you have a source for that study? Sounds interesting...
Neuroscience gets interesting when you consider this talk, and how many more change resistant brains grow up in a secular environment. They do not become religious, but instead end up holding a rather dogmatic secularism.
Which should be a little frightening.
Each religion has a history of violence where the dogmatist conducts an inquisition. But most religions also offer rules, and a divine arbitrator.
Secularism, on the other hand, has no rules. All is legal, or at least negotiable. That's an alright situation for a limited social elite who have been well bred.
But when that mentality becomes the social norm you have 1) no defense against the rise of a dictator. I would argue psychologically that this is the return of the repressed human instinct for worship, a la Jung; and 2) a culture incapable of dealing with the moral questions of the age. I know Sam Harris has spent a lifetime trying to address this latter point, developing a moral landscape without God, but his efforts are not widely convincing, at least to me, beyond some of his notes on biological determinism.
Reason for decline in religion? More and more people have come to see that what really exists has nothing at all in common with what religion says exists.
Many people also come to see that "religious" people are not necessarily better people than those without religion and that one can be a good person without it. Many feel that if religion doesn't make you a better person, then why bother with it?
Fewer and fewer sensible people are willing to base their lives upon superstition and claims which are totally without evidence.
Religion can only thrive where Belief and Faith supersede reason, rationality, and evidence. Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer people where this obtains.
But faith is anchored on evidence, whether religious or other type of faith. Most of what we think we know is actually stuff we believe. Stuff we accept on faith. I believe men landed on the Moon. But I don't know that because I wasn't there nor was I a part of the Apollo Program. But I have seen and heard the testimony of the men who said they did as well as the testimony of others who were involved in some way. I've reviewed the evidence proffered by conspiracy theorists who claim it never happened but reject it as being without foundation. In other words, my faith in the landings is based on a review of the available evidence. As is my faith that Hannibal crossed the Alps, Caesar was murdered in 44 BC in the Roman Senate and Alexander the Great achieved wondrous things. All matters of faith, based on evidence, because I personally could not attest to any of it. So, we are all people of faith, even those who subscribe to the meaningless, shallow and utterly hopeless worldview of Atheism!
@@publius1252 You seem to be conflating the colloquial definition of "faith" and the religious definition of "Faith". The colloquial definition of "faith" is along the lines of: "Something that is believed especially with strong conviction; or, allegiance to duty or a person, i.e., loyalty.".
The religious definition of Faith is: "Belief and trust in and loyalty to God, or, Belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion." Moreover, it is generally considered that religious Faith does not require evidence. Some Believe that even to ask for evidence of a religious tenet is blasphemous. Most religions require their penitents to possess "Blind Faith", that is, Faith without evidence.
This works vey well for religions as there is nothing that we might reasonably call "evidence" proving much or any of what religions ask people to Believe.
If you substitute the term "I have faith" for "I understand" , then you can see where the confusion comes from and how it can be avoided.
"I have faith that George Washington exited." That could be interpreted to mean that you Believe it without requiring evidence, which, unless you don't mind seeming to be a childishly credible person, is not your meaning.
How about, "I understand that George Washington existed." That takes the confusion away and indicates that you have read, studied, and/or heard from credible sources that he existed. You now seem to be a person of intelligence and consideration.
When evidence is utilized to gain knowledge and understanding, the word "faith" is inappropriate.
Language matters and we must always be careful how we use it.
Cheers.
@@publius1252 I just want to add one more example, if I may.
You might say, "I have faith that my wife loves me." You are not referring to religious Faith, you are saying that you know that she does. The better way to say it is , "I know (or understand) that my wife loves me." In this way you are not saying that you are relying upon faith or Faith for this knowledge or understanding. You actually know it because you have plenty of evidence of how she treats you, how affectionate she is towards you, and such.
When knowledge is gained by the application of evidence, it is not faith or Faith. When you Believe something without evidence, it is Faith, and if I may give my opinion, is worthless.
Its not about being better. Its beyond earthly desires . And all that is happening is all written in bible years back by people who didnt evn have kind of civilization as now prevails. Going away from God is personal decision.
@@isaacdamie2313 What I clearly referred to as "better" is a better way to say something. Nothing more.
Your apparently religiously besotted and already fossilized mind can see or understand nothing but what you have been indoctrinated by and with since you were a child. You're still a child and likely will always remain so. Such a pity.
It is also a personal decision to adopt reason, truth, rationality, and evidence before accepting an idea. That is, of course, something that you know nothing about.
The bible is full of superstition, mythology, brutal, primitive "law", and entirely mistaken ideas about how the solar system, the world, and nature works. If, as you probably Believe, some kind of "god" created everything and also literally wrote or inspired men to write the grand "owners manual" that you call the bible, then how is it that "he" got it all so wrong and left out so much that is true? Not much of a "god" is he.
The bible is not even good history, but is a jumble of confused. primitive, oral folk fables told over millennia from one to the other until they were garbled and distorted into nonsense. Ever play "Chinese whispers", sometimes called "the telephone game"? Look it up. That's how the bible was written, and by flawed human beings, by the way.
I miss religion when trying to comfort a loved one, or avoiding harsh truths with children, and wishing justice on untouchable scoundrels. But I firmly believe that seeking solace in magical thinking is antithetical to real solutions to all these conundrums.
Thinking atoms bounced around and eventually became humans is truly magical thinking. According to Atheist, there was no information in the system as it figured it all out as inanimate objects. There would have to be "some bias for life" in the system or it would just meander and get less complex. In "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, he is pinned down about how life started. His answer is "it was a happy accident."
@@CraigVerdi-MindfulMoney You can't teach an old god new tricks.
@@CraigVerdi-MindfulMoney you've misunderstood abiogenesis if you think humans are a direct result of abiogenesis.
The first living organism would have been a very simple self replicating chemical, probably RNA.
Evolution by natural selection produces the diversity, and that takes billions of years, and will continue to produce new species until Earth's oceans boil away.
@@CraigVerdi-MindfulMoney The problem with you religious types, is that you don't really understand the law of truly large numbers. In a large enough sample, any outcome, no matter how seemingly outrageous, will occur eventually. Or, in other words, any event whose probability isn't zero will occur sometime.
@@Diana_L., the problem with you non-religious types is you don't know nowhere near as much as you think you know about religion or science. "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
Great video and very well presented. One sure sign of religious decline, due to generational displacement, is regular church attendance, online or in person. Which is way down overall and continues to decline. Of course those whose thoughts are hostage to their religious beliefs won't believe that either, for that very reason.
At the beginning of the pandemic, I was surprised that churches in the U.S. often were vehemently against social distancing and lockdowns. I had expected they would prioritize their members’ lives. But now, in 2022, I see what worried them. Many people, when allowed to not physically visit church for services, realized that their lives were better without it.
That’s essentially how I became an atheist three decades ago. I spent about five weeks in a row unable to go to church, and realized how nice it was and how little I believed the schtick. Liberation!
Generational displacement idea is not accurate. The man in this video is forgetting the fact that atheists have very low birth rates that are far below replacement levels, while Christians and Muslims reproduction rates are well above replacement levels. I am a Christian, and most of my atheist friends have zero children. Meanwhile my church is full of married couples with children.
@Blupanda X I would guess that there is no evidence whatsoever to support your claim.
I agree. I recently saw a church advertise via flyers in a local corner shop
I believed in god as a child because my parents were believers and everyone we associated with. When I began to think for myself it became obvious to me that everyone was simply pretending to believe in god. I found myself alone in my genuine belief and asked god to reveal himself to me. He did not. I became an atheist at 10 years old.
I am 62 now and have never once felt the need for a god or a belief in god. People who know I'm an atheist often tell me they are not religious but still feel there is a god. I know in reality they are no different than me, so I wonder what it is they are calling god. It must be something I also experience. I have concluded that god is simply everything we can't explain to ourselves. The natural limitations of our minds. It seems to fulfill what I observe in those believers around me. It is an excuse to stop thinking beyond a certain point. A crutch. It would be a good thing if we let go of this crutch and walk on our own two feet. Don't be afraid of life.
God of the Gaps, the only God that ever existed.
@@reasonablespeculation3893 Well. it's the only one that the Christians have. Pretty shallow one at best.
He revealed himself to you, you just didn't recognise it because you didn't want to see it. A) The sun rose B) Your parents fed you C) Our society thrives - founded on Christian values
I don't even know which god are talking about, but I'll assume it's God and not Allah.
"If there's a problem between you and God, the problem is not God"
@Jonathan Edward I am in my 30s... I was partying too much as a kid and spent my 21st birthday in hospital recovering from a brain injury. I had a miraculous recovery and thank God that He had grace on me, a sinner.
@Jonathan Edward Thanks mate. I pray that Jesus shows himself to you. :) Religion isn't the answer, you must know him yourself.
It seems pretty straightforward to me. As societies develop, people acquire more education and more leisure time. They aren't struggling so hard just to survive. The simple, magical answers provided by religion no longer satisfy.
@david mainord No, nothing of what she said implies hedonism.
Traditional religions maybe. Humanist religions are well on the rise in the west. Democratic values for example are defended without any scientific backing but on grounds of principles. Criticizing it is now heresy among the masses.
@@nyobserver6946 What does "humanist religion" even mean? And how does "democratic values" have any connection to religion at all?
@@nyobserver6946 What are these "humanist religions?"
Nice and neat for you, but very different from the actual facts when you look at how education by no means leads directly to reduction of religious adherence. And the notion that religion is "magical answers", may I suggest, is very naive indeed.
Voltaire made similar claims 250 years ago. This also fails to deal with the biological determinism that atheism necessitates. Most people like to live as though they actually have and make choices. Western civilization had little use for the weak and valued honor and strength far more than love prior to the rise of Christianity. The notions of equality and inherent rights so often associated with the Enlightenment are based on Judeo-Christian anthropology, not Greek and Roman. Lastly, you never know when people are or are not going to experience God. I doubt many Romans gave Christianity much of a thought in 60 CE. In short, this talk is based on some presuppositions that are not necessarily true.
YOU REALLY THINK SO? MY PROBLEM IS, I SPEAK LIKE MOSES. IT TAKES TIME; I WANT TO GET THIS OUT A CHILD MAY EASILY GRASP IT. I UNDERSTAND THAT WITHOUT ACTUAL SUBSTANCE IE; EVIDENCE, DISCUSSION OF ANY MATTER IS POINTLESS. FOR ME ONE SUBSTANCE IS THE SHROUD OF TURIN. THERE IS A TED TALK BY BARRY SCHWORTZ, THE PHOTOGRAPHER FOR THE SCIENTIFIC COMMISSION TO STUDY THE RELIC. HE IS A WITNESS, I AM ONE. I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND A WATCH. NOT MANY KNOW THIS BUT THE R.C. ACTUALLY HAS STRONG RELIANCE UPON PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TO POINT TO THE VALIDITY OF THE FAITH. TRY LOOKING WITH YOUR HEART.
You can't experimentally prove anything that you have said
Equality is contradicted by Hamilton's Rule - biology.
Your statement seems to make the assumption that the ancient pre-Christian Romans were atheists. They weren't. The same is true of the ancient Greeks. In Rome there were many religious cults, plus they had their own pantheon of gods. Today, we find the idea of paying homage to various deities like Mithras, Bacchus, Apollo or Athena to be somewhat silly. From what I've read, it appears that most of the ancients took their religious beliefs very seriously.
Just because Christianity became the eventual winner in the Roman world, that doesn't grant it a special status that will preclude it from permanently waning over time; at least in the developed world.
@jzhephf hhinkcle The ideas that all people are God’s children and that mercy and forgiveness should be extended to everyone are pretty supportive of equality. Likewise the fact that Christianity was far more appealing to the lower classes until Constantine, says something about the sense of dignity it gave to those who suffered under the Roman Empire. I would add that equality is one of the main themes of James’ epistle.
As to being crushed by Yahweh, this is what happens when Christians and others insist on taking everything in the Bible as definitive truth instead of recognizing the progressive nature of revelation. In simple terms this means that if some biblical passage portrays God in a way that doesn’t match the teachings and example of Jesus, that passage should not be seen as accurate. For example, Jesus blessed children, he never ordered their execution as the Book of Joshua says Yahweh did. Therefore Joshua is wrong at that point. God is not out to destroy people. If that is what you have been taught, somebody did you a great disservice.
The biggest fallacy of this presentation is that it supposes everyone who claimed to be 'religious' in previous generations, actually were. Perhaps many felt pressured to be seen as religious by society?
More accurate would be to determine who were actually religious in the sense of those who are religious today.
For example, suppose there is only 1% of people who are outwardly religious in a secular society. A comparison would only be possible if we could know how many religious people of the past would remain outwardly religious in a secular society.
The next problem with this presentation is that it treats the population of an underdeveloped society, as if it is the same group of people in a developed society -- this when he says that a society becomes more secular as it develops. The error is that by the time the society had developed, the people are mostly completely different people. The cases of rapid development where it is mostly the same group of people (eg., Saudi Arabia), disprove his thesis. Or, atleast show that when it is the same group of people, development doesn't have a significant impact on the rate of religious affiliation.
Another problem is that he does not give much account for people raised in secular families who become religious later in life. A similar trend is seen in the Christianisation of cultures in that they became more Christian as they developed in the 18th and 19th centuries, and at times Christian societies experienced a decline of religiosity then experienced a revival of religiosity. The growth of Christianity with historical development, would serve to disprove his argument unless he replies that correlation does not mean causation -- but then he undermines his own argument. Consistency would require him to say that global religions which correlated with development, were part of the trend toward secularisation.
Correct. When adjusted for nominalism, I suspect there is no real decline.
I'm not sure about the last few generations, but before that for hundreds of years people were "genuinely" religious, in the sense that they feared the wrath of God and were willing to pay the Church a lot of money (if they had money) for special dispensation to reach Heaven.
So, we are seeing layers of conditioned, learned beliefs gradually erode over at least a thousand years, with ups and downs and even substitutions (Protestantism fighting bitterly against Catholicism from the start, Catholicism being destroyed by Henry the Eighth).
The world currently is polarized in strata of various levels of belief not based on experience but on conditioning, by location, economics, and other factors. And some of these strata are seeing the old beliefs disappearing very fast indeed.
@@david203 Certainly, the proportion of religious persons was greater in the past, though that is not in dispute. There is a distinction between 'occurrent religiosity' (number of cases), and 'dispositional religiosity' (coherence of religiosity within one's web-of-beliefs).
I agree with your point that cultural influence is a factor, and this was not taken into much consideration in the talk. To provide an explanation by analogy:
A group of vaccinated nurses may be more likely to be infected from covid, simply because they work in an environment where they are exposed to it (occurrent). However, an unvaccinated tribesman in the Kalahari may not be infected, simply for not being in the same environment. Other things being equal, we would expect him more likely to be infected.
It is difficult to say how religious modern people would be, had they experienced the same societal pressure to be religious. It is a tautology to argue that a person raised with secular beliefs, will be more secular. What I mean is that other things being equal (affluence, education, technology, etc), do we see any differences? Ie., do any of these things make religiosity more likely to wane? It is difficult to say, and we can certainly speculate but then we are leaving the realm of hard science.
@@troysmalley7886 I very much appreciate your reasoned and deeply intelligent reply. Certainly many factors are involved in the overall decrease in religious activity in many countries. I hope that the good parts of all religions survive and the bad parts die out, however we may determine good or bad in this context. Freedom of religion is a good start, but the various societal pressures and the individual experiences and judgments you hint at will be important in this continued transformation. We currently observe that our world is deeply mired in stress-based illness, greed, corrupt politics, injustice, and war, so we need all the help we can get.
@@david203 you have been a pleasure engaging with. I hope to meet more people like you.
Even in the Middle Ages, it was obvious that if reason were allowed unchecked rein, Christianity was doomed. Hence the reign of torture and persecution to preserve the religion of "love" and forgiveness.
It's contrdictory to truth: Middle Ages WERE times of reason and when it ends people turned from reason to emotion and this is what (just seemingly) doomed Christianity. And that started reign of torture and persecution - against Catholics (just check what really happened during such events as protestant revolution (perversely called "reformation") or (anti)France revolution)
@@Lyokoheros-KLPXTV you should really read the hammer of the witches or learn what the catholic church did to people who dared to own a bible not in latin
@Syed Zaeem Ali Mohsin we heard you already. Stop pasting your doom comment under every comment.
@Michael Christopher False. The universe was not created by some imaginary sentient force.
You do realize the Middle Ages were times of reason right? The Catholic Church invented the western university. And many of the founders of modern western science were Catholics and most likely educated in a catholic institution.
I always wondered where Catholicism got their ginormous numbers of adherents, until I learned the Vatican goes by the numbers of those baptized...once that happens and is documented, you are a Catholic forever...regardless.
Intelligence, I agree critical thinking is always essential but suspect the definition of “practicing Catholics” can be a difficult number to pin down (every Easter?) and most articles default to the Vatican number, which no doubt vastly overstates reality.
Asking every year all the residents of the West would be an exhausting task. Someone will need to finance it.
@@alfredthepatientxcvi There are national censuses (in most countries), that are asking for religion.
Not true. My great grandfather was expelled from the Catholic church for deciding to keep his kids (my grandmother included).
there is nothing stopping you from starting the walk with Jesus. He calls you personally. He loved you into existence. He waits at your door for you to let him in. He does not force himself onto you. What are you waiting for? Ask Jesus to reveal himself to you
When we have conception of that's it,means we have chosen to close all the doors to progress further. We forget that progress is a journey never destination. Whatever we achieve is just one more milestones never final goal /achievement.
Any data on the rise of faith in Joe Pesci?
I miss George Carlin! Praise be to George!
Needed that laugh ty.
A man of culture.
I loved George too.
It tends to go up on the days he goes around the neighborhood with a bat....
By all means I understand some of the reasons for the decline in numbers of people professing a faith in these times. In the west a huge contributor has to have been the abuse scandals in all churches, in more recent times people are prepared to stand up and inform about abuse, whereas historically a lot of abuse wasn't spoken about. These 'truths' about the behaviour of 'men' given a special rank within communities, have devastated same communities, when they hear the detail of the role religious leaders played in covering up said abuse, and also moving the abuser on to another unsuspecting parish to continue his abuse. they no longer trust what religious leaders have to say. So religious belief in a way, has been declining greatly in the west because of the behaviour of those who are tasked with teaching this way of life to us.
Alot of truth rhere...but there is a True God and Religion has smeared his Name and hidden it....Religion is a snare and and a racket, but when the Truth finds you give it a hearing ear, you will be happy for learning it.......🔆
@@johnfromflorida9441 Have never lost my faith, just changed the way I practice it.
If true, there will be a decline in education, as well, since more abuse takes place in schools than in churches. The difference is that churches largely tackled the problem decades ago, while abuse in schools is still a weekly occurance.
@@airfrere well, going with that line, there should be a decline in families, the place where most abuse takes place.
@@johnfromflorida9441 What about the victims?
What an excellent speaker .! Beautiful voice and delivery.
This phenomenon doesn't seem so obvious every four years in the US.
that's because of the electoral college. Trump did not win the popular vote.
@@rasaecnai It has never been or supposed to be about he the popular vote. Go back to school. We are a Representative Democracy not a Democracy.
@@alexkx8599 You’re missing his point. The majority of Americans are now secular.
@@Please654 Only because we have so many cities in the U.S. You're also assuming democrats can't be religious and that republicans aren't secular. Even though most don't go to church every week, they identify with a religion.
It doesn't seem obvious around me either: I live in a small town outside of Atlanta and one would think that church membership is increasing, not decreasing. I think what is happening that the shrinking religious demographic is getting more and more intense.
I hope he is correct. Maybe one day I will be able to see my Mormon grandchildren that are being kept away from me!
My condolences to you thats horrible I hope for your sake that you'll get to see your grandchildren
I am so sorry. I lost a partner over religion and there is nothing more maddening and frustrating than having someone's irrational beliefs and indoctrination be the cause of real so much real pain.
That's really sad. I hope you are in touch with other grandparents who are in the same position.
Good to have some support..
You are not alone.
as an ex mormon myself, im so sorry you can't see your own family. I hope things get better for you
I’m so sorry. Have no connection with that denomination, but have been wounded by similar. I do think we can hope. I believe prayer offered in love can help, so I will offer one for you. I wish you peace, and ignore any one that doesn’t understand that you don’t abandon your child, it can’t be done, not if you love. I don’t think God does either. That reply above is a grumpy old man in deed. Maybe I’ll offer a prayer for him as well. Sometimes you have to look past people’s callousness.
When you were born, you remembered nothing from the time before it happened. And when you die it will be like going to sleep but never waking up. You will not exist. Life is the time we have while alive. Death is just the end of that life and after death, it's gone. No religion will save you. We all are born once. And we all die once. Simple fact of all life.
To be fair, with regard to the religious extremism, abuse and intolerance: perhaps - just *perhaps* - if certain religious people stopped being abusive and intolerant extremists, they'd have a better reputation. Perhaps if religious people stopped trying to cram their religion down the throats of people who are not interested in it and *instead* spent their energy keeping the _others who claim affiliation to that religion_ from being abusive and intolerant extremists (rather than just washing their hands of the situation and saying "Oh, those people aren't *TRUE* adherents of our religion!" as they so frequently do.)
If they're not actively being abusive, intolerant and extreme, they're doing absolutely nothing to stop those who are.
You can't do that to the "anointed" of God.
@@msimon6808 It's why I don't have respect for anyone who identifies themselves as Christian.
The problem is that "teue believers "think that they have all the right answers, that their moral system is superior all other viewpoints, and therefore everyone should live by their rules. The essence of American conservatism is that there is only one right way to live and that they have the right to dictate what that is. For everyone.
You wrote all that and never realized you just spouted what you accuse "the other" of being.
@@briankuczynski4375 l do NOT believe that there is only one right way to live. I'm a Christian myself. Therefore I don't judge others for their beliefs or lifestyles. I don't try to use the power of government to restrict others' rights. And l strongly object to any religious or conservative organization trying to do that. Banning abortion being a prime example. Thanks for listening.
I don’t need religion or a higher power because I am ok “not knowing everything” I don’t need an explanation for everything that is or happens in life. I don’t need to belong to any group to feel safe or loved. The world as it is, is magical and loving enough for me.
You live in the West where all fundamental rights are granted for yours or parent’s religion, compared to the Middle-East.
When your environment doesn’t threaten or might threat your culture, you easily give up on it because you at any time go back to it.
It isn’t the same for example Coptic Christians in Egypt. If they marry a muslim, they are forced to convert. Read any religion freedom report published by the UN, the US or EU on any Middle-Eastern country.
@@alfredthepatientxcvi I don’t understand what your saying. What is your point?
Yes Indeed. Explanations are highly overrated, wouldn't you agree? I myself have enjoyable doubts about 'The big bang' explanation -- it goes a bit too far back for oxtail soup.
@@robertrstevens sorry I left my comment too open ended. I should elaborate I believe in explanations but only with significant evidence. Basically if can or has been proven using the scientific process. As for Big Bang I know enough about it that I know that I don’t know enough about it to push my belief one way or another. In simpler terms it might be correct or it might be wrong or somewhere in the middle.
@@matgggg55 yes. You express my sentiments ... better than I could!
This man has developed thoughts about religion, whereas most commentators here are merely uttering their emotions and expressing their narrow egotistical world view.
Irony.
Agreed
there is nothing stopping you from starting the walk with Jesus. He calls you personally. He loved you into existence. He waits at your door for you to let him in. He does not force himself onto you. What are you waiting for? Ask Jesus to reveal himself to you
I'm skeptical about that. There's no such thing as unbiased perspective and no one, scientists included, is immune from confirmation bias.
Beautiful, I almost got atheistic tears to my eyes.
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
This is the kind of language that turns people away from religion today. You are only strengthening the case that the speaker is making.
@@6iemei9Matthew chptr 7 verse 13 & 14 is basically what I wrote. I honestly tried to keep myself out of the words. We are to only give "The WORD". GOD gives the increase. And, it is the individuals choice to accept or decline "CHRIST's" guidance.
Is this an ASMR video?
Less people will believe, but the ones that keep believing believes Harder.
I'm very concerned about that problem. They will feel sure they are under attack by the world and consider themselves the last bastion of faith.
Education is key,imo. As science explains more natural processes it leaves a smaller place for religious beliefs. Religion has been backtracking their claims with each generation. Hopefully, in time,there won't be any room for belief in fairytales. However,there will always be those who will never learn.
@@momszycat4148 religion is about meaning, which is entirely subjective
True, we will.
@@tima5033 yes, that is how we feel.
Who doesn't love a feel good story? ❤
Brilliant bit work, thanks for the talk. Come back and do another one.
Modern culture is evolving and fast. It's a new type of social evolution on the global level, thanks to Internet and modern communications. We are living in the beginning of the Post-religions Age.
THERE ARE OVER 6 BILLION FOLK ON THE PLANET NOW,
THE INTERNET WILL DESTROY RELIGION BECAUSE OF THE INTERNET AND MODERN COMMUNICATIONS (WHATEVER THAT IS.
Or it could be the start of a global culture war that would essentially by like the American Civil War, the Korean War, the Bolshevik Revolution, etc. on a world wide scale.
no, religion won't die out. Atheism will because atheists have the lowest fertility rate by far
@@mbathroom1 what in the actual F are you talking about? Nevermind... even you don't know
Yes, and people are more depressed, medicated and hopeless than ever. Makes sense though because everyone believes that we are a meaningless lump of atoms with no soul.
Possibly THE MOST melifluous voice I have EVER HEARD! A total pleasure to listen to.
beshaq
Mellifluous* is such a nice word. Thanks :-)
HAL had a mellifluous voice, too.
Religious institutions have let us down, just like like civil institutions.... the difference between religion and spirituality has grown larger and people will tend towards there own personal beliefs. This is a good thing!
If everyone used 10% of the skepticism that they use when buying a used car, they would never be religious.
You can kick the tires on that used car, take it on a test drive, have your mechanic look it over and it will be delivered BEFORE you die and still you know it make sense to be skeptical.
Skepticism is a good thing when picking a religion too. Think, doubt, be careful. It's a big decision. With Faith you can believe any of them. Skepticism and doubt are your friends... you know they can't all be right, but they could all be wrong.
When I was a child I was afraid of the dark, now that I'm grown up I see the dark for what it is, without light.
It's rational to be afraid of the dark when you can't see very well and nocturnal carnivorous marsupials can see you clear as day.
@@gilian2587 explain your rational of fear to the creatures in our world that exist without the benifit of sight.
@@truthseeker6541 Would that be rational, though? Explaining the abstract concept of fear to critters that would never be capable of speaking or comprehending English in the first place?
Thanks to modern artificial lighting. Without it, you'd still be afraid of the dark.
@@tonybuck1225 lol, sometimes, some of us turn the lights off.
"A mind once expanded, can never turn back."
True, god is an expansive idea
@@hosoiarchives4858 - So expansive that religion has constantly tried to deny real world phenomena that didn't fit it's texts.
The only expansive part is the way in which religions evolved by swallowing up whole cultures in battle and copied their traits. Up until today's 2 violent winners: Christianity & Islam. Yet, it's still just as primitive.
A mind once enlightened should never turn back, but many do. I understand your point, that you think this "kook" just expanded our minds, but really he is in the business of shrinking thinking, so don't be fooled by these "charlatans". The Spirit of God does the enlightening and now that my mind has been enlightened by the Ruach Ha-Kodesh", I'll never go back to the skeptic/atheist side, the "dark" side. Come out from among them and be separate, says the LORD!
Right, because the scientific paradigm isnt limited.
Scientism is now trying to rule out philosophy and free thinking. It's becoming a dogma of its own for some people.
People need to move past the whole teenage rebellion against religion and grow up realizing the value in both science and the world's mystical narratives and traditions.
@@jonhopp are the world's mythical narratives true?
David isn’t it wonderful that you were born in just the right place to have the right religion?!
Not just religion, ideologies all forms of human constructs for advantage over the masses.
Religion is an authoritarian system.
Yeah the only ideology that should be left is liberalism? Keep dreaming.
Clearly the US did not get the memo.
Oh, how much has happened since the summer of 2015, that none of us could have imagined.
@Syed Zaeem Ali Mohsin Name a modern scientific theory that mentions "unbelief" in a god.
@Syed Zaeem Ali Mohsin Well, that's incredibly vague. Dawkins talks about belief in god, but no scientific theory would mention it....unless you can show me.
@Syed Zaeem Ali Mohsin Most that I listen to are only concerned about religion being taught as fact. That's what brings out the scientists, and people like me. Religions make scientific claims that cannot be backed up with evidence.
@Syed Zaeem Ali Mohsin The scientific method was created by a devout Anglican.
The soviets in Russia/East Europe made the same arguments for 100 years, They're gone now! Most people that are hostile to Christianity in the west are just adults who want to live in the cult of child. Their "disillusion" or frustration with God can usually be boiled down to "Why didn't i get my way". a view that could only be held by a wealthy individualist. The west is crumbling mainly due to the fact that Many western nations have no since of community. My suspicion is through immigration these nations will try to import cultures to contend with the dropping birth rate. It's not unthinkable that Europe could go from Christian to atheist to Muslim as the secular native population dies off without having children. If the Immigrant population never assimilates to the previous groups cultural norms they will just make new institutions. It just depends on nature vs nurture i guess.
Ahhh, what a soothing voice. I could listen to this man all day.
You like mister crabs?
* smack smack *
A lot of what he says is more plausible because he presents as a rational person. It is actually only more likely that he believes what he is saying. Much of what he says is contradicted at least in part by the available evidence. Just one example is his belief that only being raised with religion makes religious faith later in life likely. He concedes that their are exceptions, but omits the actual data. After all, all religions began at some point in time and converted followers afterwards.
Wtf!! I got irritated by his voice ...
So could I!
Spew nonsense
As an American I have heard of things being a lot worse in places like Europe, true, in terms of religious decline. And yes in America there has also been a religious decline, true, though I suspect that it's not to as great an extent as Europe. However, I realize this video is a few years old, I have seen a trend in more recent years toward religion re-emerging, maybe I'm wrong but just a personal observation for me. Also though, yes religion may be on the decline right now in the West but I sorta disagree that it can't be reversed or that it's permanent. For one I sorta have this view that religion goes through cycles through history, in religious times people start to lose their religion, in less religious times people start to regain their religion. Although yes the decline does seem to have been happening over time. However, there are a few points to keep in mind. One is that yes generations shift, and although the generations now might seem to be losing their religion that is not an indication that future generations will necessarily be the same. Another is, yes governments and nations and cultures shift with time. Even religion itself shifts as time goes by. Even given the stability provided by the Bible in the Christian religion for example. In times of prosperity it can be easy for some people to desert their religion, that could be why in more modernized nations there's been some decline. However, another point to remember is demographics. Religious people generally believe in family and will most of the time have much more children than those without a religion. In the end, with these demographics the less religious people are likely to leave less of an imprint as time goes on. And with everything that's been going on in the world these days, people have been turning to their faith more.
Go look at the numbers, religion/religious attendance has actually only declined even further, especially since the pandemic, not trying to step on what you believe but that's the problem, it's only what you believe/think, reality is in facts, religion in the broad sense is not experiencing any kind of resurgence, one could argue Islam and a few others are, but in general it is still in decline.
I grew up in it, left it & dont miss it.
Im so much happier now that im awzy from religion.
Observant child :-
"Why aren't there any Christians or Muslims or jews or buddhists or Hindus in Star Treck?
"Ah well, you see Dear, Star Treck takes place in the future"😅
Fascinating
And because scenarists write a mere scenario not the future itself. That one is done by God. 😉
HELLOooooooo -- Startrek is a fairy tale
@@TheAvenstar Trek
There's no letter c in Trek!
If hypocrisy counted as a religion there would be no chance religion could ever disappear.
that's like saying if hunger was a religion it would also never dissapear ahaha there's no need to be so pessimistic about things that have always been around, only makes you look whiny
Liberalism is a religion
I enjoyed the thoughts expressed.
My country is Christian in its majority. However, I have met some people who were raised strictly in the religion, and after years of struggling in finding answers, they are now atheists. It is difficult to believe by dogma, and every time you ask questions, things are labeled a "mystery", so it is really a problem. I am a scientist and always looking for information!
Atheist is a religion in the beginning nothing created everything. What is your purpose? Nothing. What happens when you die? Nothing. So your creator is Nothing. Your life purpose is Nothing which is your creator. And when you die you return to nothing that is your creator.
You're telling me you don't think Disney is a religion? Have you not seen the devotion people give it. No my friend. Religion is like energy. It doesn't go away, it merely transforms.
Personal Spirituality != Organised Relgion
Religion is slowly chipping away but belief in something bigger than yourself will always stick around because that's innate with us. So no, it's not "transforming" at all, you'd be delusional to dismiss the studies the prove this. Maybe actually listen to what he said and read citation in description.
I would agree with that.. I have met 1000s of people and while many did not believe in God they believe in something.. "i believe in science", or the universe, or humanisim, or something else..
Its hard for the mind to believe in nothing while being surrounded by everything.
It does often seem to go to something else... Even rejecting religion because it often goes against the self and accepting anything that allows you to do what you want without guilt or issue of feeling bad....
Knew a guy who became a preacher, in his testimony he said he thought all christians were judgemental... once he was one he found he was wrong.
I asked him afterwards how long did you go to church? he said never.
i said how many church people did you know? he said none i was in the drug culture.
So, if you never met anyone, never read the bible, not even getting dropped off at vacation bible school why did you believe what you never seen.
He had no answer...
@@exbcn Some people see Star Wars as a kind of religion and others see Star Trek in the same light. Can you imagine someone on a pulpit reading from the Book of Donald Duck or the Acts of the Seven Dwarfs..........
I simply cannot shrug this off!
@@jgdooley2003 You're confusing religion with fantasy, they may look similar but the difference is in awknowledging fact from fiction.
Put it this way, if we burned every book of scripture and wait thousands of years, they will never come back in it's exact form and interpretation. If you burned science books, they'd come back exactly how they were eventually because they are objective truths, and not fiction.
7:20 "Nothing is irreversible"
Entropy would like to know your location.
luls
It can be reversed when the country becomes poor.
@@ericshang7744 nah mate, it's entropy, the laws of thermodynamics states that entropy in a system can only increase.
Ray Dai Entropy in a system can decrease so long as the total entropy of the universe increases. If entropy couldn’t decrease within a system in exchange for the total entropy of the universe increasing then life would be impossible. Organisms use highly spontaneous reactions to derive energy to sustain themselves and impose order within their bodies, which can then be used to perform work on the external environment as well. However these reactions also only happen because the total entropy of the universe increases.
@@christophergraffam3552 true; I guess more accurately, the total entropy of the universe as a closed system cannot increase, but the local entropy of a section of this system can decrease (like living organisms that you mentioned).
It's not "the more materialistic, the less religious." It's "the more educated, the less religious."
My takeaway; no matter how old the lie, it will always fall apart. Those who want the truth [future generations] always seek to change to root of the lie.
The stories supporting religion are just too silly.
Terry Williams do you mean to say that you don’t believe the Prophet was literally taken into heaven on a flying horse?
Paganism
Tell me about your non-religious story that aren't "silly"!
Are the other choices any better? Believing that every living thing came from a puddle is just as silly. Just as the narrator suggested, you grew up with your views being freely taught in your school systems and that makes them palatable to with everything else being just dog food.
@@rwatson2609 when you assert something you know absolutely nothing about. And exaggerated it to the extreme. Will make it seem "silly". You see the best you could do.... Is straw man something hardly any nonbeliever actually believes. But the flying horse. Splitting the moon in two. Cities of the dead coming back to life.... You legitimately dont have to straw man the stories to make them seem ridiculous. The full truth you need to take ancient cultural context or extreme brute force apologetics to make them even acceptable as not silly. But will likely turn out to still push a immoral ethic system of you was to follow divine command theroy. And hopefully chances are you dont... Unless you like cherrypicking. More of a banana guy myself. Smh.
I think that religion is declining because the internet and people now finding and searching for information online. Most religious people have been taught by their parents and took it as fact so when hearing other ideas online and learning more they decide they can no longer believe in their previous religious views.
Modern Mother 2014 so true
When you are searching for meaning and purpose...does information and technology provide it? No is the answer. People don't want there to be a God, because they know that God's moral standards condemn them...so they hide behind other beliefs...and when these beliefs are carefully examined, none of them hold up as valid. I see this all the time in the academic world.
Either something immaterial is true externally to the person, or it is not. This is the only real question here, from which everything else follows. Even the "facts" are subservient to that.
Found it to be the opposite actually. The internet helped me understand that God created the world and life on it
@@markanthony3275 200 years ago Immanuel Kant stated that " searching for meaning and purpose" is useless.
If use live a useless and/or meaningless life a god won't help.
Left Christianity last year. It's been fun learning about the world I live in through critical thinking.
Great lesson. Anyway you can enhance the volume?
The decline of the dogma of religion and it's harmfull brainwashing is a good thing imo.
HOWEVER ,decline in spirutuality(mainly practices such as meditation)would be a very very bad thing.
Agreed. I'm not a fan of fundamentalist Christianity for instance, but I've benefited a lot from practicing meditation and even some mildly silly things like "crystal healing" because believing a stone has a calming or inspiring affect (even knowing it's bogus) can help thanks to the placebo affect.
@Erasmus the blasphemous Mindfulness practices like maditation trains a person to observe oneself more, becoming more aware of their stream of emotions, thus leading to more self-control. It is much more difficult for an absent-minded person who can't control his emotions and rarely observes and evaluates himself to become a compassionate person.
Meditation isn't spiritual, it's just you sitting around thinking.
@Erasmus the blasphemous Not once did I mention or intend to sneak in an ancient deity intotgw conversation. I talk about meditation purely from psychological perspective.
I wouldnt consider meditation, "spiritual", it doesnt involve a spirit in any kind, at least the kind i do. For me, its a way to process my feelings and stresses, similar to a diary for some
This is what the church feared so greatly from the medieval and Renaissance eras to actuality. The reason they insisted on dogma and persecuted various scientific minds such as Galilei.
your right
No. You're wrong. And the TRUE church has never been in fear of anything ...least of all the likes of one C. Hitchens! Kindly do not confuse Catholicism with Christianity.
@@TheAvenstar To the rational observer, they all look just the same.
@@paxmule No argument there ...that's the pity of it.
@@TheAvenstar ...actually the church is afraid. Religion is used to control the simple minded and enable fraudsters. As more and more information comes to light the church / religions organise to protect the abusers within their organisation. The catholic church protects paedophiles priests whilst damning the victims of the abuse.
The Latin origin of the word is the same as ligament and ligature:relating to that which ties or unites
Or binds. Love the reference to word origins. For me, these say so much.
My parents took me to the Sunday school next door to the church they were supposedly attending while I was actually at Sunday school. They were not attending the service, not ever! They were at home having a couple of hours on Sunday mornings with no kids in the house. They really looked forward to Sunday school I think.
Same here. That took me decades to work out.
One only has to look at America’s “Christian” evangelicals to see why so many in the U.S. are leaving religion in droves.
HEAR! HEAR!
The Catholic Church with Crusades/Inquisitions/Indulgences/Molestations haven't been exactly helping Christ's cause either
What is your personal experience with Evangelicals?
there is nothing stopping you from starting the walk with Jesus. He calls you personally. He loved you into existence. He waits at your door for you to let him in. He does not force himself onto you. What are you waiting for? Ask Jesus to reveal himself to you
Islam has explosive growth. Christianity will be washed aside.
Woody Allen: "I was born into the Hebrew persuasion, but when I got older I converted to narcissism"
What?
It sure worked for Woody!!!
We're all religious. It is just a matter of learning who you God is. For many today it is themselves or The State.
@@susanhawkins3890 Yeah him and his tragically young wife
@Akhil Felix 😂😂