If you want picks for my favorite matches: two against tough competition are papado90 (ex-Gold Pro, World Magic Cup Champion) at 3:14:21 and the second upumpa89 match at 8:37:45. If you want the one with the most hilarious method of victory, it's game 3 of the first match against tarkanmag starting at 6:42:10
My picks for favorite matches against tough competition: papado90 (ex-Gold Pro) at 3:14:21, or the first match against upumpa89 at 7:44:04. The funniest win is certainly Game 3 of the first tarkanmag match starting at 6:42:04.
Man, your content is so amazing!!! Would be great if you could bring more videos like this with a deep analysis of each matchup for the Green Devotion!!! Thank you so much for the high quality of your videos! ❤
Many concepts mentioned this analysis are beyond the specific Mono Green and UW matchup, and can be applied as fundamentals for many other matchups! This is super insightful. Thank you for taking the time to put this together! A few questions: 1) If mono Green is the control against UW, it must be the control for every other deck? Of course, for other decks, without playing around Emperor, curving out and attacking with 4/4s may just win. 2) Going through each sideboard card and explain how they are relevant for the matchup is incredibly helpful. Can you share a sideboard guide for major tier decks with similar analysis? 3) what's your take on Treasure Vault vs Darksteel Citadel? Grafdigger's cage for CoCo decks? and Shadow spear to help stabilize life? I like these cards but not sure what to cut. Thanks in advance, and look forward to your response!
I'm glad you appreciate the content. 1) Green is not always the control, no, although it usually is. The matchups where Green is the beatdown at the top of my mind are Hidden Strings ( employing the strategy described here twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665327548341841921 ) or vs Temur Creativity (where you need to proactively end the game before they deal you 30 damage with Worldspine Wurm + Xenagos ). 2) The sideboard guide is here: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1672940191244341249 . I describe the nuances of how to sideboard in more detail in this article: www.channelfireball.com/article/How-to-Sideboard-with-MTG-Pioneer-Mono-Green-Devotion-The-Wishboard/a8413419-c621-41d7-a18e-ad63af20bdff/ . 3) This is why Darksteel Citadel is strictly better than Treasure Vault: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665891324933931008 . A black source of mana is unnecessary for comboing ( twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1648327978630234112 ). If you want to run a Grafdigger's Cage or Shadowspear, those both seem like an acceptable use of a sideboard slot ( twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665880701541941248 ).
I run a portal to phyrexia in my sideboard. It doesn't always help but it's saved me several times and it got me to my first top eight at my second ever RCQ. That and shadowspear for lair of the hydra.
Not sure if I should like this video because I enjoyed watching, or dislike because I find the idea of teaching people how to beat UW control morally wrong.
Hey Bob! Thank you for the video! Its a nice approach to see something like that! Any tips against creativity? I think its the most dificult deck that Im facing right now (besides spirits =/)
I don’t have much actionable advice for the matchup. When their hand lines up properly against yours, you’re simply going to lose. Realistically, the most you can do is try to time your Karn for the most awkward turn for them.
The black source of mana isn’t needed. If you want to be extra fancy in paper, do this: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1648327978630234112 If you want to know what’s given up by playing a black source of mana, read this: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665891324933931008 If you want to know how to end the combo quickly on mtgo, read this: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1643242777902301186 or watch my video on the topic
Really think the content is very good, especially the first 35 minutes. I would have preferred though to have fewer matches with some commentary on them (explaining the lines). Food for thought.
This is a great video, what do you use to data track your mtgo results? Question: if you are on the play vs UW and you have a turn 2, 4 power creature is it correct to be the beatdown and force them to have the answer then if they do pivot into the control if needed
Depends on your hand, but usually not. I prefer to not get the creature answered, since I value the defensive answer to The Wandering Emperor and protecting my planeswalkers more highly than any amount of damage. Perhaps a different framing could be: pretend your opponent is at 100 life and play accordingly. The MTGO tracking software link is in the description but I’ll reproduce it here: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665880731262808074
Hey, sorry about that. All of my videos except this one have automatically translated subtitles generated, but this one doesn't for some reason. I spent 10 minutes doing research and digging through the various settings for how to fix this, but wasn't able to find a solution. It might be that the video is too long.
The short answer is "don't do it." I'll answer in detail for UW Control. I have a lot of nuanced thoughts about this (and data), but intentionally decided to not cover this in the video for "brevity", if you're willing to believe that such a thing is possible for a 12 hour video 😂 (I wanted the first 30 minutes where I'm talking to be as short as possible, particularly since my recommendation is to NOT deviate from conventional wisdom). [Aside, for RB, my data is unambiguous that my win percentage is higher on the play {+2%}, both preboard and postboard]. Against UW Control, I've played 161 games (97 wins and 64 losses). The breakdown is 38-27 on the play (58.5% game win percentage), and 59-37 on the draw (61.5% game win percentage). To break that down further, in game 1s, my record is 14-10 on the play (58.3%), and 24-17 on the draw (58.5%). In postboard games, it’s 24-17 on the play (58.5%), and 35-20 on the draw (63.5%). Now you may look at that and think “I should be on the draw postboard against UW Control since that gives +5% win percentage”. However, I spent a lot of time talking about this with my friends, including 3 Pro Tour Champions who have experience with both Green and UW Control, so I’ll give you two reasons why I think that you should NOT take the draw vs UW Control postboard. Reason #1 (the easy reason): PVDDR say’s to not take the draw. For clarity, PV is NOT one of the people I asked about this. However, he has a great article from 2017 titled Tiny Edges: Don’t Choose to Draw ( web.archive.org/web/20201111185659/strategy.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/mtg/channelmagic-articles/tiny-edges-dont-choose-to-draw/ ). It’s fairly short, so you can read it if you like, but he lays out all the reasons why taking the draw is a trap in modern-day magic. People take the draw far more often than is correct, and the advantage from being correct is much smaller than the punish from being wrong. When in doubt, I prefer to defer to the intuition of players who are significantly more skilled than me (like PV). Reason #2 (the complicated reason): The data secretly doesn’t actually show a play draw difference Now this may sound silly, given that my win percentage is literally +5% in postboard games on the draw (63.5% vs 58.5%). That can be hypothesis #1 (being on the draw is actually better). However, hypothesis #2 is that I’m more likely to be on the draw postboard vs a weaker player (I already beat them, therefore I’m on the draw), and on the play postboard vs a stronger player. Suppose I lose a match 0-2, or 1-2 losing both postboard games: that most likely happened versus a stronger player, meaning that losing on the play postboard had more to do with my opponent’s skill than anything inherent to the matchup, since I needed to lose a game already to be on the play postboard in the first place. Since being on the draw is incorrect almost always in modern-day magic, I consider hypothesis #2 (player skill explains the difference in observed win rate) to be the null hypothesis. Given how small my sample is (only 161 games) and the confounding effects being on the play/draw in postboard games not being random, I’m unable to reject my null hypothesis given how small my sample is. I believe that my observed play/draw difference in postboard win percentage is explained by a difference in player skill, and that putting oneself on the draw in the matchup is NOT correct.
It should certainly help with playing against UW Lotus Control, but that's not the primary focus. I'll include timestamps below for the 3 matches I played against Lotus Control. The other 29 matches are against traditional UW Control, which is what I've played against the most and can make the most informed statements about. With my current level of experience against Lotus Control, my impression is that they're much worse against Green, since there's no maindeck counterspells and only 4 Dovin's Vetos postboard (rather more exile-based sweepers). So as long as you do what I describe in the first 30 minutes of the video (NOT walking face-first into The Wandering Emperor), then you should likely be fine. They can still win of course (if your hand is particularly soft to their sweepers or a Teferi goes unanswered), but your Karns and Storm the Festivals are 100% always resolving in game 1 which makes a huge difference. AugustRush 2:22:15 Ken-chan 4:37:15 MarcioMaNonMarcio 10:11:09
At this particular moment I'm not doing coaching. However, my primary Green collaborator Ari Zax (reachable at azax1 on discord or twitter.com/argzax ) is just as good as me at the deck and does offer coaching.
I’m currently 18-3 in the matchup. Postboard, cut 2 elves and 1 troll for Darksteel Citadel, transmogrifying wand, and Mightstone Weakstone. Hope you draw Karn and not Elves. I don’t think there’s very much agency in-game though. If their draw lines up well against yours, then they’ll just win.
If you want picks for my favorite matches: two against tough competition are papado90 (ex-Gold Pro, World Magic Cup Champion) at 3:14:21 and the second upumpa89 match at 8:37:45. If you want the one with the most hilarious method of victory, it's game 3 of the first match against tarkanmag starting at 6:42:10
My picks for favorite matches against tough competition: papado90 (ex-Gold Pro) at 3:14:21, or the first match against upumpa89 at 7:44:04. The funniest win is certainly Game 3 of the first tarkanmag match starting at 6:42:04.
Upumpa is ALWAYS a tough Opponent
I've had a hard time playing against UW Control in all formats for a LONG time. this feels like some huge level-up content for me
Unironically the smartest thing I’ve watched this week
I never comment, but I feel implored to applaud and thank you for the content that you post. You’re amazing - please keep up the great work!
Man, your content is so amazing!!! Would be great if you could bring more videos like this with a deep analysis of each matchup for the Green Devotion!!!
Thank you so much for the high quality of your videos! ❤
Thank you!! You’re increasing my understanding of this deck 10 fold.
I am excited and terrified to jump into this 😅. Appreciate the deep dive of content. Will comment post-digestion
Thank you so much for this! It will be a timeless content ❤
Many concepts mentioned this analysis are beyond the specific Mono Green and UW matchup, and can be applied as fundamentals for many other matchups! This is super insightful. Thank you for taking the time to put this together! A few questions: 1) If mono Green is the control against UW, it must be the control for every other deck? Of course, for other decks, without playing around Emperor, curving out and attacking with 4/4s may just win. 2) Going through each sideboard card and explain how they are relevant for the matchup is incredibly helpful. Can you share a sideboard guide for major tier decks with similar analysis? 3) what's your take on Treasure Vault vs Darksteel Citadel? Grafdigger's cage for CoCo decks? and Shadow spear to help stabilize life? I like these cards but not sure what to cut. Thanks in advance, and look forward to your response!
I'm glad you appreciate the content.
1) Green is not always the control, no, although it usually is. The matchups where Green is the beatdown at the top of my mind are Hidden Strings ( employing the strategy described here twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665327548341841921 ) or vs Temur Creativity (where you need to proactively end the game before they deal you 30 damage with Worldspine Wurm + Xenagos ).
2) The sideboard guide is here: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1672940191244341249 . I describe the nuances of how to sideboard in more detail in this article: www.channelfireball.com/article/How-to-Sideboard-with-MTG-Pioneer-Mono-Green-Devotion-The-Wishboard/a8413419-c621-41d7-a18e-ad63af20bdff/ .
3) This is why Darksteel Citadel is strictly better than Treasure Vault: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665891324933931008 . A black source of mana is unnecessary for comboing ( twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1648327978630234112 ). If you want to run a Grafdigger's Cage or Shadowspear, those both seem like an acceptable use of a sideboard slot ( twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665880701541941248 ).
Insanely smart vid. My only suggestion would be some background music or something for the games. Besides that, genius work
I run a portal to phyrexia in my sideboard. It doesn't always help but it's saved me several times and it got me to my first top eight at my second ever RCQ. That and shadowspear for lair of the hydra.
Absolutely amazing content. Thanks Bobby!
Hi Bobby, great video! Are you still playing modern Amulet Titan nowadays?
Not for a while, no.
Not sure if I should like this video because I enjoyed watching, or dislike because I find the idea of teaching people how to beat UW control morally wrong.
Great stuff
Hey Bob! Thank you for the video! Its a nice approach to see something like that! Any tips against creativity? I think its the most dificult deck that Im facing right now (besides spirits =/)
I don’t have much actionable advice for the matchup. When their hand lines up properly against yours, you’re simply going to lose. Realistically, the most you can do is try to time your Karn for the most awkward turn for them.
@@bobbyfortanely Thank you very much for the reply!!! I will try it!
So I was comboing minding my own business when I realized. The way the deck is built I don't have a black source. right? im not missing it?
The black source of mana isn’t needed. If you want to be extra fancy in paper, do this: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1648327978630234112
If you want to know what’s given up by playing a black source of mana, read this: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665891324933931008
If you want to know how to end the combo quickly on mtgo, read this: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1643242777902301186 or watch my video on the topic
Really think the content is very good, especially the first 35 minutes. I would have preferred though to have fewer matches with some commentary on them (explaining the lines). Food for thought.
This is a great video, what do you use to data track your mtgo results?
Question: if you are on the play vs UW and you have a turn 2, 4 power creature is it correct to be the beatdown and force them to have the answer then if they do pivot into the control if needed
Depends on your hand, but usually not. I prefer to not get the creature answered, since I value the defensive answer to The Wandering Emperor and protecting my planeswalkers more highly than any amount of damage. Perhaps a different framing could be: pretend your opponent is at 100 life and play accordingly.
The MTGO tracking software link is in the description but I’ll reproduce it here: twitter.com/BobbyFortanely/status/1665880731262808074
Good morning mr fortanely, could you activate the translate mode on your video, plzzzz
Hey, sorry about that. All of my videos except this one have automatically translated subtitles generated, but this one doesn't for some reason. I spent 10 minutes doing research and digging through the various settings for how to fix this, but wasn't able to find a solution. It might be that the video is too long.
Wow!
Thanks for all the content. What are your thoughts on choosing to draw in prolonged matches like UW control or BR midrange?
The short answer is "don't do it." I'll answer in detail for UW Control. I have a lot of nuanced thoughts about this (and data), but intentionally decided to not cover this in the video for "brevity", if you're willing to believe that such a thing is possible for a 12 hour video 😂 (I wanted the first 30 minutes where I'm talking to be as short as possible, particularly since my recommendation is to NOT deviate from conventional wisdom).
[Aside, for RB, my data is unambiguous that my win percentage is higher on the play {+2%}, both preboard and postboard].
Against UW Control, I've played 161 games (97 wins and 64 losses). The breakdown is 38-27 on the play (58.5% game win percentage), and 59-37 on the draw (61.5% game win percentage).
To break that down further, in game 1s, my record is 14-10 on the play (58.3%), and 24-17 on the draw (58.5%).
In postboard games, it’s 24-17 on the play (58.5%), and 35-20 on the draw (63.5%).
Now you may look at that and think “I should be on the draw postboard against UW Control since that gives +5% win percentage”. However, I spent a lot of time talking about this with my friends, including 3 Pro Tour Champions who have experience with both Green and UW Control, so I’ll give you two reasons why I think that you should NOT take the draw vs UW Control postboard.
Reason #1 (the easy reason): PVDDR say’s to not take the draw.
For clarity, PV is NOT one of the people I asked about this. However, he has a great article from 2017 titled Tiny Edges: Don’t Choose to Draw ( web.archive.org/web/20201111185659/strategy.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/mtg/channelmagic-articles/tiny-edges-dont-choose-to-draw/ ). It’s fairly short, so you can read it if you like, but he lays out all the reasons why taking the draw is a trap in modern-day magic. People take the draw far more often than is correct, and the advantage from being correct is much smaller than the punish from being wrong.
When in doubt, I prefer to defer to the intuition of players who are significantly more skilled than me (like PV).
Reason #2 (the complicated reason): The data secretly doesn’t actually show a play draw difference
Now this may sound silly, given that my win percentage is literally +5% in postboard games on the draw (63.5% vs 58.5%). That can be hypothesis #1 (being on the draw is actually better). However, hypothesis #2 is that I’m more likely to be on the draw postboard vs a weaker player (I already beat them, therefore I’m on the draw), and on the play postboard vs a stronger player. Suppose I lose a match 0-2, or 1-2 losing both postboard games: that most likely happened versus a stronger player, meaning that losing on the play postboard had more to do with my opponent’s skill than anything inherent to the matchup, since I needed to lose a game already to be on the play postboard in the first place.
Since being on the draw is incorrect almost always in modern-day magic, I consider hypothesis #2 (player skill explains the difference in observed win rate) to be the null hypothesis.
Given how small my sample is (only 161 games) and the confounding effects being on the play/draw in postboard games not being random, I’m unable to reject my null hypothesis given how small my sample is. I believe that my observed play/draw difference in postboard win percentage is explained by a difference in player skill, and that putting oneself on the draw in the matchup is NOT correct.
@@bobbyfortanely Thanks for the detailed answer.
HI , Does this vide help against the uw lotus control?
It should certainly help with playing against UW Lotus Control, but that's not the primary focus. I'll include timestamps below for the 3 matches I played against Lotus Control. The other 29 matches are against traditional UW Control, which is what I've played against the most and can make the most informed statements about.
With my current level of experience against Lotus Control, my impression is that they're much worse against Green, since there's no maindeck counterspells and only 4 Dovin's Vetos postboard (rather more exile-based sweepers). So as long as you do what I describe in the first 30 minutes of the video (NOT walking face-first into The Wandering Emperor), then you should likely be fine. They can still win of course (if your hand is particularly soft to their sweepers or a Teferi goes unanswered), but your Karns and Storm the Festivals are 100% always resolving in game 1 which makes a huge difference.
AugustRush 2:22:15
Ken-chan 4:37:15
MarcioMaNonMarcio 10:11:09
@@bobbyfortanely Thank you sir. I'm playing on MTG arena explorer but I think these videos will help me
you are doings gods work and i have a very long homework assignment did you ever do coaching?
At this particular moment I'm not doing coaching. However, my primary Green collaborator Ari Zax (reachable at azax1 on discord or twitter.com/argzax ) is just as good as me at the deck and does offer coaching.
Hi Bobby, I recently picked up mono green and I'm struggling more than I should against RB sacrifice, do you have any tips that could help me?
I’m currently 18-3 in the matchup. Postboard, cut 2 elves and 1 troll for Darksteel Citadel, transmogrifying wand, and Mightstone Weakstone. Hope you draw Karn and not Elves. I don’t think there’s very much agency in-game though. If their draw lines up well against yours, then they’ll just win.