The Real Brexit Debate
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2018
- As we approach one of the biggest decisions in Britain’s modern history, we explore the options left on the table for the UK: Theresa May’s deal, a softer Brexit, a harder Brexit and a People’s Vote.
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Channel 4 hosts "The Real Brexit Debate” to tackle the key issues that people across the country really care about and considers the genuine options left open for the UK. Politicians from the major parties debate and discuss the outcome they most want.
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Why not have a referendum to ask the people if they want another referendum?
mutantdog or just have a referendum and then the people can confirm the first referendum with their vote. Why are people so scared of democracy
That's the most sensible and _Democratic_ thing i have heard all year :)
Tell that to Corbyn the Eurosceptic!!
@@mendi881 Yeah, because the UK government are a bunch of genius's.
Oh no no no... We need a referendum for that referendum before we can get a referendum.
they should do a debate without an audience because then the viewers can judge their arguments on substance rather than on the number if claps they get
Do you judge someone's arguments on the number of claps they get? I don't.
no but unfortunately alot of the british audience will. Not everyone is as perfect as you I'm afraid.
@@eddevlin72 What a childish reply.
What exactly is so controversial about my comment, i just think we should allow the british public to formulate their own response? please respond as I'm confused as to what is childish.
@@eddevlin72 I was talking specifically about "Not everyone is as perfect as you I'm afraid.", just because the person disagreed with you. Kind of gives your opponent an automatic win, when you stoop to that level when your point is being challenged.
My goodness. A second referendum with choice of 'Remain as member' or 'Remain as hostage in the backstop'. Are they nuts??
Yes, they're deluded.
Thanks for this amazing service you provided for people who follow the debate from abroad, I really appreciated it.
Greetings from Italy
How thoughtful of pro-remain Channel 4 to fill the audience with remainers.
I thought the same thing!
Of course they did
.... I second that notion , WTO RULES ! 👍🏻🇬🇧🤝
Probably not their fault. The studio is in London and most Londoners voted Remain. There were a fair few Leavers in there though, and most of the audience members questioned were Leavers. 60% of Londoners voted Remain and 40% voted Leave. Judging by the cheers for JRM and for Caroline Lucas, I'd say the audience split was more or less the same. (60/40)
Yes, it was a little to obvious wasn't it! Full of NPC's
She wants a people's vote that doesn't involve leaving
Duncan oorloff is the people want to leave what’s wrong with asking them how they want to leave? Why so fearful? This is the prize of winning. More choice. Wasn’t taking back control what it was all about.
@@dicerevo so the question should be .... leave on WTO or Leave on Deal.
@@dicerevo You really dont get Duncans point do you, If I were cynical I could say this has been contrived to make people to vote to stay in. the only way for it to be fair would to have a wto option as well
The question she suggested should be on the ballot paper was:
TM Deal or Remain?
In other words, Remain with a say or Remain without a say...
No leave choice there....
Like Jason Williams
said TM Deal or JRMs WTO should be the only 2 choices as the first referendum already put remain in the bin.
Nice one C4. Very good debate format in comparison to the normal drivel we get. This format is much more confrontational and gets into the nitty gritty details of each position.
IMHO, Jacob Rees-Mogg is the only person who came out of this debate not looking like a total fool.
JRM is a fork-tongued weasel, he had a method, just stick to the emotonal story about respecting the will of the people and skip all fact-based arguments.
agreed
Intellectually he wiped the floor with them, quite some doing as the only person standing up for a simple instruction.
First saw Jabob Rees-Mogg like 5 years ago, thought he was a right toff, since then I have watched probably 50hrs of footage of him on LBC, various interviews, speaking at Oxford etc. etc. he is a real prime minister in waiting, absolutlly brilliant man, exactly what our country needs right now. People who slag him off are either stupid or have not watched anything he has said and are like I was 5 years ago, judging him by the way he speaks which is a huge mistake. Jacob for PM!!!
He did what great politicians do best; said lots of words without ever really saying anything at all. Same as the Labour bloke - he waffled on without ever getting any kind of point across.
Rees Mogg conducts himself perfectly in this debate. Waits his turn without interrupting, listens to the others, makes his point clearly without stuttering or histrionics. A real leader. He has the best understanding of the only Brexit possible, which is to exit the common market.
Pity he doesn't know how to use a condom
I can only hope if it comes to that that I'm allowed to stay out of the UK, my god what an utter shitshow no deal will be, will be interesting to watch the fallout from outside though
The guys an act.
ginlane nope I’m glad he has loads of children, we need more British born children not foreign born ones thank you
Jay Jay well u are not man enough
£7bn (after the rebate) is peanuts for what the UK got out of the EU. Largest case of self-harm known to the UK in recent history.
Hi, Jacob Rees-Mogg is a superbrain, he paid his own way to Oxford University, he started standing up for himself aged 12, he's very happily married with 6 little children . He worked very hard to be able to afford to fund himself in politics to give back to people in the nation of Great Britain. He's our inspiration in our West Yorkshire family home. We love him! !!
Unlike the prime minister he can count his own children. What a genius.
Hahahahahaha. So it's basically 3 against 1. Mogg is the only MP that actually wants BREXIT.
I'm so shocked I may faint.
Perhaps that’s a sign of how far removed the idea of Brexit is from sense.
Exactly. Thats because CH4 is UTTERLY BIAS and has clearly filled their studio with REMAINERS!!!
CH4 PROPOGANDA plain and simple!!
And the only one that has a clue of what he is talking about.
FunkyAnimal The Earl of Funkdom Yep - Channel 4 ballance for you. Thank god Mog doesn't get ruffled and knows his stuff!!
Caroline Lucas says BREXIT IS a project for the right, by the right. Does she even know what the EU is?
FunkyAnimal The Earl of Funkdom you’re suggesting the EU is politically right wing?
Liberal values of freedom of movement of people & goods? The values of pooling together resources & decisions. Of course Brexit was the doings of those on the right.
Caroline is right in that there was no real “lexit” articulated by the left. Brexit was through and through a xenophobic, right-wing fantasy of becoming the next European Singapore or something... and completely tainted by imperial colonial nostalgia. The EU, there is much to criticize there as well, especially in terms of the euro zone and monetary union. But then again the UK had the privileged exception of maintaining its currency and independent monetary policy, so that point is moot. Articulating policy at the regional continental level is very much necessary, of course the EU should become more democratic, but the UK was in fact an extremely reactionary force within that bloc when you consider its voting record. So good riddance, I say. Can’t wait for the Scots to leave you too.
Caroline's referendum question: Would you like to remain or remain in European Union? A: Remain B: Remain
Kshitiz Rai or leave or leave that would be what the people voted for.
Seems Caroline Lucas has the best question and option then...
I'm all for that
@@robertandrewwaite3439 only a good option if you enjoy jack boots on your face.
1 MP from the Green Party in Parliament and yet she's allowed to bring her own audience with her..
And still 1 mp
This aged well 😂
Jacob has once again proven he is PM material. If only his party had the spine to back him.
Yorosero kind of want to see him PM just to see how he’d fail🤣🤣
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
No thanks. The Conservative party needs to be completely destroyed, along with Labour and the European Unionist Party aka Lib Dems.
According to caroline lucas we should have another vote on the 1975 referendum first as i was to young at the time.
well duh- you had one 2 years ago.
@@julesdingle I was old enough then.
What about those 2 million odd teenagers who have joined the electoral roll since 2016, those 800 odd thousand who have since died. Not forgetting the 3 million odd EU citizens living, working and paying tax here and the million or so UK citizens living in the EU who have paid tax here who where denied a vote on THEIR FUTURE.
Different demographic, different public opinion.
Young people will suffer??? Compared to what now? Which young people? I have a feeling she doesn't mean native British young people.
And next year there will be another change inn the demographic, and the year after, and the year after that ...
The Prime Minister in 2016 stated very clearly that this was a once-in-a-lifetime decision that would be respected and acted upon by the government and there would be NO second vote, no matter the outcome.
The people voted. Two years after a general election there will be a "different demographic," but we don't have another vote every two years.
Well Done Caroline. The only person there who actually makes any sense at all.
@Soloman1001 Probably because the other 3 needed their nannies to wipe the dribble off their chins.
Have the referendum question in essay form and then have parliament debate each and every entry. Seems the most sensible thing to do under the circumstances.
UK R.I P.
No deal no problem
They'll be problems alright.
No problems only troubles.
the irony is scary. I saw we throw leavers a squeaky toy so they focus on something else while the adults focus on getting us out of this chaos
Need an actual EU-critical leftist in this debate - the only missing position on this programme as far as I can see.
I thought we had one!??? Lucas is the only one for remain regardless of how many brexiters with victim complexes insist otherwise.
@@siginotmylastname3969 EU critical not in favour
Barry Gardiner.
@Colin Wilson - Not true. They would be centrists and infra-reds, not a genuine socialist among them. If they were, they'd be campaigning for collective representation rights for Greek workers instead of obediently attacking (at the behest of the EU propaganda machine) the generations who clothed and fed them .
The only person who is being honest here is Rees Mogg
fr ze different opinions doesn't mean they're not being honest.
Wot the man who's relocated his 2 hedge-fund companies to Eire? You are gullible.
gary morgan - get your facts right - he has not ‘relocated’ he has set up ‘another’ office. Remoaners have a tendency to twist facts to suit their belief system.
Will Malin - good point
Yep. Rees-Mogg who wanted to have a second vote, but forgot about it. He tweeted it. Caroline Lucas had to remind him.
The people voted for the UK to 'leave' the EU and the Oxford Dictionary definition of 'leave' is to "depart from permanently".
Oh so that meas everyone who voted leave wanted a hard brexit? Well then I guess that's that then. That's totally in line with reality.
P Shuckle Nice strawman, to which he said that Leave means leave permanently, which means the UK leaves permanently and never comes back.
To define what people see as leave isn’t what he brought up, so to make a strawman is nothing more than intellectually dishonest.
The biggest problem with most of the MP's, they do not know how the EU operate and what their rules say with regard to any country leaving. The EU cannot negotiate with a member country while still in the EU. Therefore we the UK have to be outside the EU before they will negotiate with the UK. The only way we can have meaningful negotiations with the EU is to leave on WTO conditions or at least indicate we are prepared to do so on the 29th March 2019.
All the nonsense spoken by Barry Gardener re -poverty and homelessness etc has nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU as they are all internal issues to the UK.
The only way for the Labour manifesto to get any traction we have to leave on WTO terms.
Caroline Lucas advocated that the vast majority of young voters were for remain -- various studies have shown that when asked most young voters were indoctrinated by their College/ Uni. lecturers in EU propaganda and actively discouraged from finding out about the leave campaign.
Could you provide a link to these studies? And what makes you believe that academics are uneducated about the EU when they literally teach public and EU law
Do you have any idea at al what the WTO terms are? I doubt it or you wouldn't spout such nonsense. For one example only, the EU provides environmental and food standard protections for consumers that the WTO does not. I guess you don't mind chlorinated chicken and mouse droppings in your breakfast cereal...
ITS most young people vote for Common Market only BK 1975 now its not and now same people who Have changed their minds and Vote for leave in June 2016 So Now We R finally got out this EU Nonsense
I’m a European citizen and I am against a 2nd referendum and here’s why:
We need people who are in it with their hearts in terms of this European project, especially in a world where we face threats from Russia, China and even the US. Don’t just stay because somehow now it’s just much more convenient.
I wish the British people the best of luck for the future and although we’re not family anymore I hope we can still remain good friends!
From the US? What threat are we to Europe? We have no issue with Europe, even if most Europeans seem wholly ungrateful for American foreign policy like the Marshall Plan (you are welcome by the way). Europe is market for us.
don't Believe the Macron lies.
I do apologise but I must disagree. The world war 1/2 interventions were in the past, the Marshall plan was in the past, the Cold War support was in the past.
Right now, today, your president is unilaterally pulling US out of the Iran deal, the climate change accord, putting up steel tariffs, threatening car tariffs and arresting foreign nationals. 3 years ago the US were friends with Europe but the feeling now is like being threatened.
JayJay5244 future generations get it more
I think the biggest threat are those your beloved EU is importing en-masse.
I was actually impressed with this setup, c4 really managed to balance the screen time. I do think that the audience was a bit distracting, but other than that, a surprisingly productive discussion.
I'm only 8 minutes in but I'm guessing the results are as follows:
1.) Jacob Rees-Mogg
2.) Barry Gardener
3.) James Cleverly
4.) Caroline Lucas
Caroline seems to have a very strange vision where young peoples votes count more than older persons. How peculiar that she claims to be a democrat, but is the least democratic on the stage.
She also back peddled when she alienated half the electorate with judgemental comments about leave voters
The way I see it, if the vast majority of young people are pro-EU, then that *probably* represents a trend that will continue into the future. It was predicted in 2016 that within 2-3 years of the Referendum, the slim Leave majority would be eroded due to older Leave voters dying and younger Remainers coming to voting age. Recent opinion polls seem to support that prediction.
I take your point about all votes being equal, but Brexit is a 20+year project, and it would be foolish to be too dogmatic about that strict democratic point if it is clear that we would be going to all this trouble and expense just to satisfy the will of our ancestors.
The answer is to have a vote now to check that the will of the people is still the same. It might be that people 'see the light' as they become older and wiser, and that's why so many more older people voted Leave, but lets see. That can't be undemocratic.
@@paulmackilligin1754 You're misunderstanding the basic constitutional principle of parliament, that no previous parliament can bind a future one. If the electorate in the future wishes to put pressure on parliament to join the EU once again, then let it happen. But as the right honourable Jacob Rees mogg said we've had three clear votes affirming a desire to fulfill a leave vote, and to do anything but just that would be a great offense to British democracy.
@gnu_andrew Parliament voted for a referendum, we voted leave, we affirmed the leave vote almost unanimously in the general election, since both Labour and Conservatve manifestos purported to fulfill the will of the people.
That is 3 seperate votes that represent the democratic will of the people.
Your claim about an illegally won referendum is baseless, the government outspent the leave campaign budget tremendously by leafletting every house in the country.
>inb4 muh Russia conspiracy
@P SMITH why on EARTH can you not see the role which their own governments being fervent right wingers plays!? Being in the EU as a left wing government would help.
Talk about scripted. Only watched the first 4 audience members and its obvious theyre answers are scripted.
"The real brexit debate" Uhhh it's not a debate when eveyone in the audience is pro remain.
So we know it's an audience with a higher average IQ than that of the UK then......
@@benghiskahn3673 biased
@@benghiskahn3673 what's IQ got to do with it? Would you say Tony Benn had low IQ or Jeremy Corbyn? Because they were anti EU for their whole careers.
How's brexit going now !!!!
@@1ramises Very well actually. Turns out (unsurprisingly) that all the doom and gloom is total bullshit.
The People's vote are basically arguing no one read the terms and conditions. No we read what was on ballot sheet. DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE OR REMAIN IN THE EUROPEAN UNION. A majority said we want to leave.
Seems Mogg was the only one who knew facts
.
He did say Labour couldn't enact any of it's policies if we are still in the EU. Why can't Labour voters see this (unless they are all middle class bourgeois types who couldn't give a stuff about the poor).
The only side with any facts is Remain. Everyone else is a liar or an idiot.
I've changed my mind from remain to leave.
Me too. Mainly because I don't want Article 13 to be imposed upon us. The EU poses a major threat to freedom of speech and freedom in general.
Good. Let's battle it out at the ballot. Let's have that people's vote!
PlotTwist good you’ve been redpilled great feeling huh? 😜
Of course you did princess...
after watching a debate that isn't even about whether we should remain or leave?
The media should be totally embarrassed that it’s taken over 2 years to have a “real” debate about Brexit.
If the public had seen this debate earlier we wouldn’t be in this mess. Brexit would have been smothered at birth.
James Cleverley saying "Backstop" so often reminds me of SNL's Darrell Hammond as Al Gore saying "Lock box."
Lucas we voted out. Peoples vote is lets rerun until we vote to stay. And what the heck do the greens care for trade and economics.
Exactly, how pathetic that it falls to youtube commenters to debunk the propaganda.
Well after watching this i want out on a WTO Brexit even more now!!!
You want to damage out country because your vexatious about the tone of one debate!?
@@dicerevo The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze, right? No wonder we're in the mess.
@@dicerevo wait a second i listen to people debating their arguments for staying and leaving or taking a deal knowing all the info available to us good and bad and i still want to leave on WTO , thats my opinion based of this debate nothing was said to make me think staying would be beneficial , i am curious to know if i had said now i want to remain even more would have replied to my comment??? And show me the evidence that leaving will permanently damage the UK theres no evidence of that at all!!!
@@dicerevo Not as much damage as liebour did in the 70's and more recently and yes I was there.
Lets just forget about Northern Ireland right? Who cares about the Union and the Good Firday agreement and the 40 year peace. Clean Brexit HYPE.
The problem with this Brexit issue, is that the current day Politicians are a bunch of very incompetent individuals.
Getting Mogg on was probably the best thing C4 has ever done. He stands alone. A giant amongst mere men.
Hahahha wow he’s really drawn you in, name his actual achievements other than being posh?
@@mwd331 Necroing a 2 year old post. Mogg has principles, not all of which I agree with, but he typically stands by them which I respect.
You need to air the views of all people from various backgrounds, regardless of what you might think of them.
That said, if you think I'm a Tory voter, let alone party member, you are sorely mistaken. If I vote at all, I vote for myself or an independent candidate [I actually defeat Tories locally ;) ]
@@S.ASmith if he has principles, why did he vote for the deal he stood here criticising?
@@adama-k2710 Spinelessness. That and his opinion may have changed in the two year period between my original post and now.
I see you deleted a post about him paying no tax as well?
He does pay tax, and likely a lot more than you ever will. That said, taxation is theft. Appealing to statutory law in a discussion with me is futile as I am apposed to Income Tax as a hold over from the Napoleonic Wars.
I voted remain in 2016 but if there was another referendum I would 100% vote leave. I can't believe the attitude of politicians in westminster. We had a vote, the majority voted to leave, so let's respect the result and get on with it. We're a democracy. If all politicians just got behind Brexit, no matter what party or view, the process of leaving would be a lot smoother and a whole lot less complicated.
So now you'd want to leave the EU, because of your politicians? Makes sense.
out of interest, if it came to it would you vote for no deal or may's deal?
@SunzOffski nope sorry, still makes zero sense. People's or politicians' reactions to the result of a (stupid) referendum shouldn't impact how you feel about remaining in the EU or not. This is proof of how reckless this referendum was in the first place.
@@Julieb210 I would vote to leave because I believe in Britain and I believe we can make it work. We voted to leave in 2016, so let's get on with it and make it a success.
Same here. Voted Remain because of the short-term economy. Now I'd vote Leave. Accountability is too important to give up. The EU is steadily federalising and I don't think it can work between 500 million people with different cultures and languages. We'll all be voting against each others' interests. If you think the relatively minor Brexit split was bad for dividing a country, you probably don't want to know what would happen with even larger differences of opinion which would go on between us and the other member states. It would be Brexit times a thousand. : )
once again the only person making actual sense is Jacob Rees-Mogg
EVANGELOSS54
100% agree 👍
without any substancial knowlede, yes. He already moved his company to Irland and is money is in euro, maybe that should give you a hint... but pawns are there to be played and sacrificed, right.
@@haruc Straight question-Can you honestly and explicitly adduce evidence that JRM has an office in Ireland?
@@haruc Indeed, his father wrote a book on how investors can profit from social and political chaos and recession. The apple has not fallen far from the tree.
@@josejose1988 yes i can. but you can google it yourself. it happend already back in july or so. Brexit will be a desaster and he will make big money out of it. I dont blame him. Its his job.
Still clueless the British politicians. You have been giving a very generous opportunity to stop the madness. Stay in the EU and work with us. Greetings from Denmark.
No representation from Scotland nor with Westminster’s third largest party. This is a disgrace - I think this just highlights how insignificantly we’re being treated.
Scottish Independence
Who represents you pal.
We cranky.
Rubbish - this was a UK-wide vote. Scotland has its own parliament, the Barnett Formula and helps inflict the West Lothian Question on the rest of us.
Mr Rusty Regarding the WL Question, most Scottish MPs do not vote on English only matters, the SNP never have out of principle. The only time that English Only legislation that doesn’t impact on Scotland is ever voted on has been by Conservative and (more historically) Labour MPs. There’s also legislation and bills proposed within WM that solely affect the other constituent countries of the UK but aren’t devolved to their respective bodies and are still voted upon by English MPs. There’s also specific Legislation that cannot be voted upon by certain MPs, this almost always occurs with Peers in the House of Lords depending on the reason for the Lordship, or depending on English Legislation, will block MPs from Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland from voting. Westminster acts as both UK-Wide and English Parliament in the one building. I’m all for an English Parliament however, as it eliminates the possibility of MPs being able to abuse the double Parliament system to their benefit and block certain legislation, or encourage specific party members from other constituent countries from voting and influencing matters, and also means we’d lose less money from the Barnett Formula.
Regarding the Barnett Formula, this method is in place to the detriment of Scottish Expenditure. It bases the rebate on taxation outwith Scotland’s taxation input, and disregards the tax per capita in favour of a population proportionality. This only, numerically and financially, benefits Scottish tax payers and to the detriment of other constituent tax payers if we pay the least per capita in tax. However, based on HMRC receipts and chancellor budgeting expenditure:
We pay in Scotland £10,700 in tax per capita
The UK as a whole pays £9,000 in tax per capita, outwith Scotland is £8,800 per capita
The Barnett Formula sees us receive an excess of £1,500 based on the rUK tax per capita
This sees us have a total expenditure of £10,300 per head of population
This is a net loss of £400 per capita, or £2.2bn annually
We lose billions in tax from the Barnett Formula, but Unionists would rather you pay attention to the £1,500 more we receive and not the £1,900 we lose
Whilst I agree, this was a UK wide vote. Respecting the 2014 referendum, we voted to remain within the UK, and respecting the 2016 referendum result for the UK will see Scotland leave the EU as the UK, and no second EU referendum as per the 2017 election. However respecting the 2015 election result based on a manifesto and party candidates (voted by a majority of the population) to support a second Scottish Independence Referendum if there was a democratic means to do so, and based on this criteria being met in the 2016 referendum based in Scotland’s result versus the UK as a whole. Democratically, Scotland will leave the EU as the UK, there will be no UK wide second EU referendum, but post-Brexit, Scotland should be given the choice of Independence to rejoin the EU or remain in the UK under Brexit. This outcome matches all the results of every vote since and including 2014’s.
I thought 2 years ago I wanted to leave. but 2 years later having heard all the argument and debate...… we need to leave now. vote leave however many times we have to
Well said I'm more get out now than stay in
Voted leave and meant leave and would vote leave again
How wide is that gob
There are ridiculous people out there. That's for sure .....after your comment.
We were given a choice, leave or remain, simple, public voted TO LEAVE, we must leave now.
“On Tuesday night, a special 2 hour edition will cover the Brexit vote”
Ha
This is my second time watching this, absolutely rich entertainment.
Well that’s cleared everything up!!
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it
Tom Hulme such a sad litany. Will we ever be able to recover
@@lynnewilson7390 were british ofcourse we can. Its simply in our polite nature not to see we are being taken advantage of untill it has happened, when were up against it our fighting spirit will show and make no doubt about it if we leave the eu with no deal they will make sure were up against it. This is a good thing as nothing motivates us more than when we have a point to prove we just need the politicians we vote for to stop thinking about themselves and start listening to what we voted for.
Wanted to do a local maitenance agreement with a local school that we have been involved with.
School had to advertise the possible work first to an EU wide board, so that there is "fair competition?". Why a small school needs to solicit quotes for maitenance of their IT from companies that do not even have any local technicians is beyond me.
Load of trollop.
@@Serfdomftw my brother is in 25k uni debt there were atleast 15 scottish , welsh and european students on his course that got it for free ??? White english men are the least likely to go to uni in the uk ??? Wtf is going on.
@Stacey Raven Where has any of it been debunked? The Hinkley point deal is on record.
Well, this is outdated now... especially considering the whole “ON TUESDAY” at the beginning
Excellent debating and format.
who even cares what the green party has to say
I think people need to read this comment made by Tom Hulme.
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it.
Companies merge and are taken over because they fail not because they are in the EU. It's a silly proposition. They fail for a lack of innovation or a failure to scale. If it is all because of the EU then how is it that of the aforementioned list all of the takeovers/mergers have been done by European companies which the exact same regulations as the GB? Surely, if EU regulations are the cause of it then the Chinese or 'Muricans would have taken over? Not just the British but the companies on the continent too.
Sanne
That’s right fella.
Who is this grant bloke from the Eu.
Because there aren’t thousands of jobs in the car industry from things like Nissan moving factories to the U.K. so they can produce cars inside the EU and save on tariffs.
And we haven’t received hundreds of billions in redevelopment funds from the EU over the last 40 years to build up the poorest area of our country.
So these companies only moved because of grants ?
Can you list all the money coming in to the UK from the EU to balance what you are saying? Why not? European Social Fund, Regional Development Fund etc etc etc etc etc.
Many people in the UK were employed via European funding packages.
The UK was at the top table and shaped decisions for decades.
This debate does not have representation from Scotland , Wales or NI so it only represents England.
England should go independent. 🏴
Sam Paterson
Have you ever had one of these jobs.
My pension matures in January and Brexit has destroyed my fund. It was worth every penny to get away from the EU. We joined a common market, we never voted for nor wanted anything more. Parliament never gave the people the chance to reject the EU because they knew the people would vote leave.
The backstop and ECJ continuing jurisdiction isn't Brexit. The backstop would be acceptable if it had a 5 year period and we had the right to leave without EU consent.
As for the people's vote, it took place in June 2016. If remain had won they wouldn't allow demands for a second referendum. They have to realise that we are not going to keep having referenda until we get it right. We voted and they have to accept the result as right.
What happened to no deal is better than a bad deal? The current deal is a bad deal.
We are the 5th largest economy in the world and approached the negotiations like someone begging to join. We should have asked what they give to have access to our economy.
How do you have a debate between people who all want the same thing??
I thought the Green Party was dead, looks like there is still one member
That's one more than the Brexit party lol
@@kurt7842 face it, the green party is about as relevant as any other independent party, people need to stop acting like it is a major party. Same goes for the Brexit Party, UKIP, monster raving loony party ect.
@@GromDarkwater It's by no means a major party, but it'd definitely picking up speed. Obv if you want to vote left, you're better with Labour/Libdem
@@scotthickman1227 Lib Dems are essentially the same as the greens, an independent party,
Also green party picking up speed? What planet are you on? They have been stuck at 1 MP and the boundary changes will disperse some of the moronic students which most likely will lead to the end of Lucas.
What we need is PM JRM. Clearly has his priorities straight and the interests of the country at the heart of it all..
id take rees mogg as pm but he doesnt want to be pm sadly
I reckon he’d have a hard time getting his removal of working hours rights aligned with the interests of the country.
ArcadeMAD maybe in time.
Like ALL politicians he has only self interest at heart - you really think a toffee nosed prat like him gives a toss for the working people. He hasn't done a decent days work in his life just like his mates Johnson, Gove etc. Regardless of the effects of Brexit he and his like have so much money it won't affect them at all if the economy nosedives.
The crowd are absolutely disgusting.
"Before we hear from the politicians, let's hear from the audience" ...could we not?
So according to Caroline, we just keep having referendums until we get the result that SHE wants. Absolute joke.
No.. We could set a definitive number. Best of three. If the next vote still goes to 'leave' then that's it over with. Do you think people should be forced to adhere to decisions they made based on false and/or patchy information?
No. An actual vote on a Deal on the table. The first such one we will have. Unlike the 2016 referendums when your Brexit masters got to make any nonsense prédiction without any accountability or responsibility. Of course all of your posh Brexit masters like Farage did a runner as soon as they sensed they might be held responsible...
Not sure how that’s ‘according to Caroline’ since I didn’t catch her saying that in this video. If she did please reply with a timestamp.
The only people I heard suggesting that was her position were Jacob and James.
I think the result of a democratic, STV-based referendum with the 3 realistic choices on the table (and without any cheating on any side) would be a final decision on the matter, regardless of the result.
Why does Caroline go on about how she's a Democrat, but then doesn't respect the result of direct democracy? These people weren't complaining about a lack of information before the referendum, so why is it okay to do so now after they've lost the vote? What if we have a "people's vote" and more information emerges after... Do we have another people's vote? At what point can you declare that the result of a referendum is valid?
Nick Baxter The point is that the politicians will not come to an agreement for this deal, nor would they for no deal, nor would they for remain. These are the realistic options now, and I think the democratic thing to do would be to put the question to the people, to ensure that we as a country do what most people would prefer.
That means a referendum with all three options on the ballot, with voters marking their first, second and third preference. The outcome of that referendum, assuming nobody breaks the rules this time, would provide a mandate that the politicians would be unable to ignore. I don’t think another referendum would be necessary afterwards for some time (though everything is subject to change, if the EU were to turn into some sort of endless pit of despair and we voted to remain then of course another vote could take place), since an STV referendum would provide such a strong, democratic mandate for a scenario that is clear and specific.
JRM is the only sensible mp on the show who knows what he's talking about.
Andy Hemmings his comments regarding WTO have been disproven many times including on this show tonight. JRM is the most disingenuous MP regularly on TV today
That is an outlandish claim! He among many others who campaigned for Brexit kept on feeding the public with lies and never mentioned a single word about how daunting the negotiation process will be. The country needlessly got itself into a quagmire simply because it got got up in political crossfire.
@@dicerevo don't agree sorry. What specific comments do you refer too?
No, actually every one of them had a point where he was right but they also talked about if astonishing BS. The Labour bloke was right when he accused JRM of not saying the truth. WTO said there aren't hard borders necessary. So this is right was JRM said but they also said that you can't prefer a country. So when there is free movement of goods between NI and Ireland you must allow it to other countries that trade under WTO. So there has to bee checks that the WTO rules are obeyed.
But how can you do it without a hard border? You have to count the goods that crossing the border. You have to make checks. You could do it in the bigger cities I guess, where the lorries get their load. But how can you do it for every farmer that brings a sheep or cow across the border or a van with milk? How do you check it the other way? Goods that came from Ireland into NI? Or even worse from the EU to Ireland and then to NI? A hard border is the only practical solution for it. But Irland, Northern Ireland and the UK agreed that there should be no border.
Don't confuse a posh accent with competence.
If politicians are unable to do what they were told in the referendum. Then they should all resign and leave politics to people who can.
If I'd been told that you can't leave I would not have bothered to vote,it's called the sin of omission.
.... and about Gibraltar ..... ?
It is part of UK
CLEAN Brexit, please! May’s deal is tainted by capitulation. We cannot Remain after the EU has treated us so disgracefully. The best workable Brexit is the clean approach, or a renegotiated Canada+++. Norway is bad. May’s deal is bad. No Deal is better. Rees-Mogg’s vision is better still.
@Tom Maj
The bully boy tactics of the UK towards the EU is the real crime.
The poor old EU must be sick to the back teeth of the UK's cowardly delusional and duplicitous behavior. God help the UK if that nincompoop Rees-Mogg gets his hands on the levers of power
How cute you actually think they will deal with you if you scupper the deal.
Eating popcorn ln America watching all this. haha. Glad we aren't the only drama country these days!
@@GUITARTIME2024 shitshows like this go on all the time in third world countries, but you don't even know it. thats why they are so poor. Enough stupid people multiplied and god to the point they can taint society with their idiocy in USA and Europe, so now we get to see shitshows here as well. Wait till the French elect Le Pen, that will be hilarious.
ginlane How has the uk bullied the EU?
The people that voted to remain for the sake of being richer really should be stripped of any instance of being British
"Now, if you're tweeting during this debate" oh dear god...
Jacob Rees-Mogg for PM.......
Let's hope so!
🤮
Get voting!
then what?
Caroline why would the UK vote out and then vote for a vote???? 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
So lots of pro Jacob and pro Caroline people in the comments and a few pro Barry people. But not one pro James comment.
Just sat here and watched our political system eat itself. What a shambles.
Mogg is a boss.
czcams.com/video/B3rX4nJ0snc/video.html&feature=share
Mogg is a silverspoon fed little toffy baby with only hes own financial interests at heart.
Mogg is a snake... a charlatan.
Harry Wonker - I bet he pays a lot more tax in one year than you’ve done in your whole life
Well, the Tories lost that one, and the Greens want a referendum without a no-deal option, which defeats the purpose of a democratic vote. Between Labour and Mogg, I'd have to say Mogg puts the best case.
If he is our best option, we are profoundly finished...
Mr Rees-Mogg is brilliant!
Mogg's case is flinging the UK into the future to nobody knows where. Sounds like a big gamble.
This is not a debate, it's a performance.
So sick of "we can take back control of our borders, our money, our laws' nonsense. That argument has been had a million times now, abundantly clear we already had control of those things
Out . Out. Out. Out. Votes dont lie unless you are curropt. 52%
That was 2 years ago, a lot of those leavers are dead now.
A Z because voters never get it wrong do they. There is another example of 17 million people voting for one thing that didn’t work out well for a country - in 1933 17 million people voted the Nazi party into power in Germany and bybyour logic that “votes don’t lie unless you are corrupt” you are saying that Hitler getting into power was a good thing?
It ain't over till the fat lady sings :-)
52% isn't much to be proud of.
If Tories failed to negotiate a batter deal, Labour would fail too because each one of them is weaker than the other.
but the chip shop industry will not be affected
Brexit means Brexit.
So tell us, what does Brexit mean? Scrapping ALL of our 750+ trade deals with 160+ countries & going to WTO defaults???!? Idiot
@@formxshape Precisely! You are a coward that has been scared into submission.
I give 2 years after Brexit for Scotland to become an independent nation....
Greedst and then have to reapply to rejoin the EU which Scotland wouldn’t be able to as they wouldn’t pass the Copenhagen criteria.
@@Chris-oz9qxI agree with you 3 words to that Lord Have Mercy
@@Chris-oz9qx For one, they will require their own currency first. Secondly, they have a deficit over 9%.
If scots want it thats fine but I think the silent majorty don't - SNP do not represent the majority
Greedst: I hope and pray. Farewell to the Barnett Formula and the West Lothian Question!
As an outsider I`m glad to notice that UK had a long history of backstabbing and finally manged to forge a blade so curled that thrusting forward stabs itself in the back. Squabble more and twist that blade geniuses.
We have a long history of a sovereign parliament too.
And what superiour country are you from ?
@@JonsRegularStuff the uk. If you don't know about the evolution of the UK parliament it's makes for quite interesting reading, the development of common law, the Magna Carta, the Glorious Revolution,etc. Most European nations have top- down constitutions written between the 50s and 90s of the 20th century. The UK is not necessarily superior but its parliament has a long history.
@@CanaryAlien i assume you are replying to someone else. Or using the Remoaner tactic of strawman arguing (putting words in others mouths to avoid actually answering).
The EU is fundamentally flawed and refuse improvements so bye bye.
@@JonsRegularStuff Jonathan Webb i think you meant this comment, and your original comment, for faktuu. I replied to your original comment thinking it was for me. Crossed wires. I tell you my nationality in my original comment.
Caroline Lucas keeps talking about the young people. Tell me how is the EU helping the youth of Greece, Spain, Italy, France? All have high youth unemployment.
That's because you are not competitive with the Euro. The Euro is too strong for you and too weak for Germany, Netherlands, Austria. The Euro was a mistake, not the EU by itself and not the customs union.
But the UK doesn't have the Euro, so they have to decide in different circumstances.
It's all kept quiet! No one is allowed to know how the EU has damaged people's lives!
Yeah, and imagine how worse off they would be outside of the EU. Being in the EU is the one protection against the wave of right wing populism spreading across Europe.
Caroline Lucas, has an absolutely mental, unrealistic perception of the world. Worse than even the Labour party... and that says alot...
Suggestions for Debate Improvements
1) . Have the audience hold their applause and their laughter
2) Have the moderator be unbiased
3) . Zap the Green Gal every time she interrupts or is disrespectful
4) . Have the Labour Guy in a separate room where his audio feed can be cut off every time he interrupts/laughs/ridicules/gets angry or get a more intelligent and respectful Labour representative
5) . Defend James and Rees-Moggs right to speak. Two classy and respectful debaters!!
When all the audience is against brexit
I don't know much about Brexit or what is going on, but whether you stand with this James Cleverly guy or not, he wasn't treated very respectfully.
I agree on Universal Credit it's nightmare waiting to happen but Caroline Lucas is living in dreamland
You're a looney judging by your videos.
Any further referendum has to be done in two stages : in the first stage , all 3 options must be offered , no deal / Mays deal / no brexit , the second stage is a run off between the two most popular first round choices .
Brexiteers have their view, remainers have their view, but a former Brexiteer advising us to take this deal is just bonkers.
We voted for Brexit. It must be delivered.
Even if it screws us for a 100 years?
Will Malin even though it won’t? We will be so much better off without the EU.
Miles Clent you don't have a clue how damaging this will be.
Tories are finish but Labour is still dreaming of unicorns, sleepy leadership. Poor old Barry just give up and go back to sleep and leave the grown ups to deal with Brexit. Is there any person awake in Labour who can lead this party?
Truthshallsetu3 chukka will get them elected. Lucas is a joke
David Lammy would do a good job.
@@vinceiswatchingyou Chukka is a neoliberal shill.
PlotTwist is the EU a neoliberal project?
@@vinceiswatchingyou It is, yes, and I want out of it. What's your point?
JRM alone against three remainers, a mostly remain audience, and a remain moderator. Wipes the floor with them.
And then Jacob Rees-Mogg went on to vote for the deal.
Kylie Minogue!!! That came out of nowhere!!!
Absolutely deliberately scripted and purposefully left as the last comment. Channel 4 fake news.
@@frazerduncan356 Indeed, it was so obvious he never voted leave in the first place. Throw in a bit of pop culture to make it seem he's genuine.
@@frazerduncan356 Saw this comment and knew someone would say he was a plant Give it a rest. Some people have different views to you.
Keith Panton I thought you were gonna say especially as both Tories and Labour are split on Kylie
@@SuperMikeFender No, we can see if he's sincere or not. I think it's called the hypothalamus.
I voted to remain but I've changed my mind. Let's get out. I'm quietly impressed by the British people's confidence to say NON to the EU and the way the EU has insulted the UK and its leaders.
My only concern with the leavers is the 17th century squire called mogg..
Hey BBC ..Why arent you broadcasting the robin tilbrook case ???????????
The decision was taken in 2016. We were told it would be followed through. So, what's changed?
Way to stack that audience with remainers typical channel 4 🤦🏻♂️
I Am NOT surprise about that IN Moaning area channel4 BBC etc
Rees-Mogg is like Iron Man fighting off street muggers.
Matthew Lally did you watch it? If we have a NO Deal our GDP will shrink by 9%. To put that into context the 2008 crash was 2%. Let that sink in.
How could you possibly know that? Do you still believe the predictions? They *never* come true. They are propaganda.
czcams.com/video/ixFQABe30To/video.html
Barry doesn’t understand how more regulation harms business, increases unemployment and reduces tax revenue. It’s very basic.
Rees-Mogg's political/legislative knowledge is breathtaking. Shame his personal beliefs will stop him ever really using it in a higher position.
@Lolly Logan Well, I really have no stance on whether the chap would be positive or negative for the country, I'm aware he's thoroughly disliked by many, but all of that doesn't much matter to me. What is more interesting and saddening for me is that the man clearly has a first rate mind, no matter what you think of his personal beliefs and it will never get to be used to the full benefit of the country. We need people at that level of intelligence and knowledge, when we don't have them, we end up with average sorts of the May variety in charge and that's no good for anyone.