NEWS: did the UK critics hate HADESTOWN? | west end musical review roundup
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
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OHMYGOD HEY!
This week saw the opening of HADESTOWN at the Lyric Theatre in West End, direct from Tony Award winning Broadway success and five years after it was last seen by London audiences, at the National Theatre.
But the show's critical reception left fans on both sides of the Atlantic frustrated, with many taking to social media to speak out against some of the negative commentary.
Did the British press really dislike this fan favourite show? In today's new video I'm taking a look at a selection of reviews from some of the most significant outlets to see what we can find out...
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00:00 | introduction
03:34 | WhatsOnStage ★★★
08:59 | The Guardian ★★★
12:33 | Evening Standard ★★
18:40 | The Stage ★★★
22:38 | The Times ★★★★★
24:33 | The Telegraph ★★★
28:14 | final thoughts
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#musical #hadestown #theatre - Zábava
obviously im biased but wow I cannot imagine watching Hadestown and seeing it as a 2/5 😭
I saw it with the original cast so I could never. I mean when you hear Hades speak you just melt.
I guess for me, I related to the messages of climate change and politics (I first listened to it in 2019 when we were gearing up for next the presidential election in the US), and I liked how the story explores both new and old romantic relationships. So I could see someone not relating to any of that, or finding it too heavy-handed and annoying. And the music and lyrics are so beautiful and captivating, and I love how the story is presented as well, those are things that I think make it at least a 3 star show, even if you don't relate at all to the topics in it
I was honestly shocked to see the 2 star reviews!! 😢
It got alot of 4 and a few 5 stars though so that's good!
Same, especially with the original cast from 2019-22 🥰 Patrick Page and Andre De Shields were utterly spellbinding, I will never forget seeing the two of them!
A certain Quentin Letts gave Hamilton 3/5 when it opened in London. Mainly to be different, as far as I could see. It takes all sorts 😂 🤷🏼♀️
It's crazy to me that anyone's review could use the unhappy ending as a factor in how many stars they decide to give it. The ending was already written thousands of years ago. Hadestown's greatest achievement, in my opinion, is the way that the storytelling is done so well that we forget how tragically it will end. That happy ending really seems possible when Orpheus works his magic on the stones and the denizens of Hadestown. We *believe* in him. We believe in love conquering all. We go into that theatre knowing how the story is going to end, and then we get so caught up in the HOPE, that it is still devastating and almost shocking when it ends the way we already knew it would.
The 2* review infuriated me, he completely missed the point of the show, relating it to Donald Trump for example is ridiculous because the music and the notion of building a wall predates the tenure of the 45th US president by at least 6 years. It feels like he has gone in expecting to dislike it, going out of his way to be snide and condescending, and has refused to make any concerted effort to understand the lyrics, or the complexity of the narrative, or how well it blends together the old and the new. This is my problem with London theatre critics in major publications, they paint plays and musicals with the same brush, which is majorly idiotic because they’re not the same type of media by any means, the manners in which the narratives are delivered differ completely, and I feel like there’s an inherent play-oriented snobbery that has been prevalent among London critics and awards judges for a while now, which in the past couple of years has been more evident than ever.
If a critic wants to get deep into seeing the wall as The Wall, I feel like they should realize that one of the fundamental pieces of ignorance around the US border wall is that the vast majority of immigration/emigration on that border is *circular* migration. So the projected American policy metaphor should make the narrative structure they find unsatisfying actually more profound lol.
Who was that critic?? How ignorant of that critic!! The song was written in 2006!!
UK critics also tore apart Les Mis when it first came out and quickly had to eat their words.
I wouldn’t want to invalidate the reviewer’s emotional response to the ending either, but it would make me wonder if they were missing out on how thematically necessary it was (aside from the fact that it’s a millennia old myth with a fixed conclusion). We’ve got this idea of time moving in cycles - we sing the old song again, the seasons change and change again, and the loss of Eurydice really speaks to the uncertainty of Hades and Persephone - Will they try again? Can they try again? Orpheus tried, and failed, and where does that leave them who tied their own hope to his? It’s an unanswered question, one that will continually be asked, and that’s kind of important to the narrative. As the second reviewer said, the idea is that we tell the story despite knowing the ending.
I’m saying this as someone who saw the show where I live in Canada, so I don’t know what the differences are between what I saw recently and the show where you are, but I am deeply interested in your videos on Hadestown nonetheless. I appreciate your thoughts on these reviews, and look forward to your thoughts on the show itself.
My thoughts exactly! I don't want to say someone's POV is invalid, and yes the ending is ultimately unsatisfying, but that's the entire point.
The 2 star reviews that I read (Evening Standard and City AM) just read like they didn't really want to be there in the first place.
Jep. Also really misogynistic and sexist in parts (especially against fans)
Yes, that is definitely the vibe I was getting from the review as well.
The problem with the review is that hadestown is based on a Greek tragedy. It doesn’t make sense to fault a show for an issue with the source material. The show itself is a creative way of handling the story of Eurydice and Orpheus and a happy ending would have ruined it.
I think it’s less a criticism of the ending and more a criticism of the writing of the show not actually gelling with the ending. The “telling stories in spite of knowing their ending” is such a beautiful concept, but it’s undercut by not linking the actual story with the ending. It undermines that concept by making it disjointed (almost a Diablos ex machina!) instead of taking us along the ride of inevitability. For me at least, what makes me revisit fairytales and myths and tragedies is the sense of being taken down the road to this inevitable endpoint, taking you right alongside the characters. Whereas with this, it almost feels like a cruel twist ending. Either way, I’m so happy there’s a show people love, which popularises the stories I hold close to my heart! I want to go and see it again in london to see if I enjoy it more - I hope I do
I saw this production on Tuesday, and was completely blown away. I have been a fan of the OBC recording for a few years, and was dying to get to see it performed. I was so impressed with the performances, the set, the band, it was all so stirring and left me feeling so grateful that I get to live in a time and place that allows me to access such profound art. It's such a nuanced show. Which is why it's so painful to hear such a half-baked review that seems to not even try to go deeper into the shows concept and themes. I wouldn't mind if the show was very complex and really buried the lede with its messaging and ideas, but I think it's all laid out in a way that an audience can grasp it if they give it some moments of thought. And I truly just cannot understand how you can watch the show and complain that the ending wasn't happy enough. That's literally the point. We tell these tales again and again, even though they don't end happily. I feel like some of these critics were being purposefully contrarian.
Like, they say it in the first song -- it's a TRAGEDY. Would the reviewer rate Romeo and Juliet poorly for being sad? 😂
@@erbrferg exactly!
I will never understand why the West End Critics slandered the original West End of Sweeney Todd to this day.
Quite right. The British critics gave Sondheim better reviews than the N.Y. critics. They probably trashed ST because it was "theirs" tale. They certainly changed their tune.
There's a hole in the world
Like a great black pit
And the vermin of the world
Inhabit it
And its morals aren't worth
What a pig could spit
And it goes by the name of London
Did they? I didn’t know about this! Didn’t stop it winning the Olivier for musical and actor though…
I saw Hadestown with the OBC. A glorious experience.
Hadestown on Broadway has my heart. So excited to make the trip to see it in the UK! I love one damn song after another 😂😂
"Are we calling that 'Northern'?!"🤣🤣🤣🤣Perfect delivery.❤Hello from Canada.👋
My favourite thing from seeing the show last weekend was hearing a chorus of sniffles during They Danced because a bunch of people I was sitting with in the grand circle had teared up by the end of Epic III and still needed time to recover 😂
honestly, they danced makes me weep too, they just look so in love and are getting a happy ending you know isn't coming for the other couple 😭😭😭
Looking forward to your review... I have seen this show on Broadway a few times, and saw the London production last week. Compared to NY it seemed to be missing something, but I couldn't tell you what - it's just that magic spark
Hades and Persephone play it too large and too light, meaning the tension isn't built constantly throughout the entire show; it takes breaks. But that means that the Epic 3 emotional release (and oncoming dread from there through to Road 2) doesn't hit as hard.
I dont think I’ve ever been more ready for a video - saw the show last night, and have been waiting for more MickeyJo Hadestown Content to drop!
My thoughts having seen the show were similar to how you described your thoughts of seeing the show the first time at the National. Very intrigued to hear your full review.
What did you think of the show? My full review is dropping next week!
@@MickeyJoTheatre I enjoyed it, but didn’t love it as much as I thought it would. Personally, i thought the story got a little bit lost and didn’t evoke as much emotion in me as I expected - ultimately, I honestly just didn’t feel the connection between Orpheus and Eurydice enough to believe he’d take the long road to hell to bring her back.
That being said, there were some impressive moments and on the whole some really great performances across the cast (we stan Mel LaBarrie), particularly as there were a couple of covers on so early in the run. The one character that didn’t quite work for me was Hades - I just didn’t get as much gravitas and strength in the bass-y vocal i felt the role needs.
The band was absolutely outstanding!
In terms of a rating, I had it as a 3.5 ⭐️
(In case it makes a difference, this was my first experience of the show, and only knew a handful of the most well known songs beforehand)
The evening standard review screams boomer tory who dislikes people under 25 having any economic power for some reason
I love the "Mickey Jo reviews reviews" genre of video on this channel! I'm learning a lot about the craft of theatre criticism which I feel like does NOT get talked about enough!
Grace is definitely from Nottingham and I believe trained in London. As a fellow Nottingham native, I'm pretty sure we do not consider ourselves "northern". I do sometimes feel like the majority of people from the south consider anything north of London to be "northern", so it doesn't surprise me.
Yep I’m just from down the road in Derby but my whole family is from Manchester and I think if I referred to the Nottingham/Derby area as the North, I’d be laughed all the way back home 😂
I love Hadestown, I’ve only seen the US touring version. I guess what got me hooked was the quality of the music. I heard the music many times before seeing the production. Also, I’m a sucker for a hopeless tragedy. When I saw it live it was better than I had imagined in my head, the theater was electric and the audience was totally captivated. The ending was palpable, the heartbreak, the sadness, we all shared, a beautiful moment.
4 stars is fine and nothing to get worked up about. I know that personally, what I consider 5 stars would also have to work emotionally for me, on top of having a good score, book, cast etc.
What bothered me about some of the reviews you read was the mention of the accents. It comes across as racist or classist or exoticizing (is that a word? lol) - basically, very othering. Not sure why they have to mention any accents unless it’s distracting or doesn’t work for the production. The only one that I remember bothering me was Micaela Diamond’s southern accent in Parade - which she chose to do and was not her natural accent. The critics choosing to include that in their reviews just seems gross.
I agree about Michaela Diamond - she doesn’t sound Southern at all - sounds like an East Coast old woman which Lucille Frank was not.
I never let bad reviews to put me off, but I read a lot of them and this is giving me second thoughts because I love the songs. I think having high expectations can put a damper on the show ypu are going to see. One of the few shows I had high expectations was Cabaret at the KitKat Klub, but I loved it. So curious to see Hadestown at the Westend now.
I’ve been waiting to see Hadestown for years, and saw it during previews in the front row.
I kept my expectations minimal as had no idea how the transfer would go, but found it spectacular. Definitely see it if you can! It’s a 5/5 for me.
@@pkminpkmon glad to hear you enjoyed it!!! I am very excited ❤️
I've loved the soundtrack for years, this has been my favourite musical for ever. It didn't quite live up to my hopes, but it was still gorgeous and so worth going to- the band are incredible, as are the amazing actors playing Hermes, Orpheus and Persephone, and there are some stunning lighting design choices
Would love to know if these are the same reviewers that gushed over Bad Cinderella
Think positive reviews they gave of Cinderella need to be seen with that it came out just after the Pandemic. Nobody wanted to say anything bad about any art.
There is another explanation here. I personally think the London critics weren’t being disingenuous- they just recognised that Cinderella was aimed mainly at being a fluffy, tongue-in-cheek bit of entertainment that you didn’t have to think too hard about - ie. a slightly snarky romcom with nods to Panto, which is where you’ll most often see the Cinderella story performed in the U.K. - and thought it delivered on that. Its ‘feminist’ message was ‘be yourself’. That’s it. Which, for the young teens/pre-teen audience it was probably aimed at, was fine. They recognised too that it was performed to a very high standard by a brilliant cast, and that Victoria Hamilton Barritt probably added a star on all by herself. And, particularly after the misery of Covid, that fit the bill. These critics weren’t saying it was on a level with Hamilton, Parade or Sweeney Todd just because they gave it decent star ratings 🤷🏼♀️. Anyway, on the subject of Hadestown, there have been plenty of positive reviews and I’m looking forward to seeing it!
29:29 This is my key theory of why it’s not quite gelling with critics - as great as it is when shows centre regional UK accents, it feels out of place in a show that has so much of its narrative and theming tied up Americana and American identity - it does fundamentally alter the atmosphere, and when you have a show that’s an abstract painting as much as Hadestown, that matters much more than it does in, say, Wicked. It stuck out to me most with the Fates, who just felt out of place and stilted in a way they didn’t at the National or on Broadway.
True and with most of the music derived from the Southern US I could see it not hitting with UK critics. I mean in the end if the US cast had performed in London I wonder if it'd hit differently.
Patrick Page definitely gave Hades a very specific vibe that Americans immediately understood.
honestly i was worried i would feel the same but. the lack of grounded setting is very much part of what gives hadestown it's magic, and there was this whole subtext in the show about how borders are an illusion meant to otherize and control us, so i feel like letting yourself get caught up in their accents sort of falls into the very trap that the show condemns? if anything anais supports the idea of americana as something in which any type of person can exist. eurydice is explicitly a climate refugee, and iirc eva noblezada is filipino and latina. one of the OBC fates is also asian- there are plenty of people who wouldnt consider us a part of or tolerate us having a place in their "americana" despite african and chinese americans BUILDING the railroads and latino influences of just... being here from the start. wicked the show maybe less so but the wizard of oz and the wicked book is incredibly americana and is considered THE american fairytale. so long as the energy is good it can really only make a richer more unique experience each time 👍
I was shocked by the end as well but the more I researched the more I realized it couldn't have ended any other way no matter how I wanted it to.
"At least you didn't break up in hell" 😂😂 That's the new standard for feeling good about things from now on. 😄
I am completely biased but I adored this cast as much as I love this musical. I have an emotional response to it that I don't think I have ever had before. I travelled on purpose to see the first preview and I can't wait to go back next Easter. I know and respect the fact that the observation of art is subjective, but I honestly can't understand some of these critics.
I do agree though that from these reviews the bigger picture I get is not that the critics hated it. I think many shows wished they had this critical response. Maybe people's expectations of what response it should've had are preventing them to see the actual response detached form what they thought it would have.
Hey Mickey, can you please do a video one day about Frank Wildhorn and the how and why his works seem to be a hit in Germany and Japan, but he's basically exiled by Broadway critics?
I second this!! Though I have major issues with how Wildhorn messes with source material (Mina and Dracula being star-crossed lovers is… a choice), his work is popular with audiences but mostly loathed by critics. Would love to hear a professional breakdown of that.
The title of this video led me to believe that Hadestown was mostly panned. But then watching it through, most of the reviews you discussed were largely positive. lol I'm not used to star ratings for shows, but 4 stars seems pretty good to me. (Perhaps 5 star reviews in England are reserved for visionary breakthroughs like The Lion King & Hamilton?)
In any case, if this production is based on the Broadway production, then I'm sure most people will love it.
I’m so looking forward to your review!!
I really appreciated your take on the WhatsOnStage reviewer and your opinion that leaning into subjective and personal taste is the best thing a reviewer can do. It was also interesting to hear the insight that reviewers might resent popular projects with big fan bases! I’d never thought of that before.
Keep up the great videos! :)
I always appreciate your very thoughtful and balanced videos! Also, love that Hadestown shirt!
Interesting discussion. I'm not sure about their theatre critics in particular, but the Guardian is extremely sparing in 5-star reviews of anything, in my experience. Although I look at the current crop, and they give one to Taylor Swift.
Weirdly relieved to hear you say your feelings on the show changed over time. I saw it yesterday. I did enjoy it, thought the set and performances were great etc. but I really struggled to connect to it. I hope on repeat listens I can understand why it’s so beloved a bit more!
You are my favorite critic! I wish i could come to London to see this production. I finally saw it on Broaddway, just before Christmas, with understudies for both Hades and Orpheus, and it blew me away!
I love Hadestown and have seen it on Broadway and on the US Tour, and I love the artistic staging and metaphor and especially that idea of the hope a story may turn out differently. It’s what brings me back to my favorite books. What is interesting to me about some of these reviews though is they reflect what my parents thought when they saw it. They liked it, but they said they felt the ending really dragged on which took out the emotional impact for them. I don’t have the same emotional reaction, but I think it’s valid, and like you said, everyone reacts to different stories and art differently which I think is actually a cool thing.
As someone who loves this show... unfortunately the criticisms for the West End, particularly as you mentioned about the ending, aren't entirely incorrect. Seen the WE version twice already (including press night) and they weren't wrong.
I saw it at the National and with the full original cast on Broadway and loved it. I’ve now seen the West End cast and still love it. It’s great that they’re bringing their own style to the show and not being a carbon copy of the Broadway cast. ❤
adore your red lighting vibes in this ❤
It’s so funny cause I was literally like “national theatre bear?!” Right before you said it and felt validated. I didn’t realize how much I notice your hidden Easter eggs.
Ah I missed the other video
Thank you for mentioning it
Had a lot of video notifications from other channels I’ve recently been obsessed with so occasionally miss things. Will go see Hadestown soon.
Looking forward to your review, I saw it on Monday and Simon was on for Orpheus
same! I am looking for any footage of that night for the memories
Without writing an essay on it (although hoo boy, I *could*) - West End Hadestown doesn't have the same emotional gut punch release of the OBC run for a simple reason: a few of the key actors play the show too light and/or too large.
Starting from Way Down Hadestown, the show slowly but consistently builds tension. And it's important that it is consistent, because it means that the emotional release at the end of Epic 3 is the first time we have that tension let up. But certain songs and acting choices between Way Down Hadestown and Epic 3 let up the tension, meaning that ending isn't as impactful as it could be. So that at least is why I think the first one talks about the lack of emotional release (happy *or* sad) - because it doesn't spend the ENTIRE show building up that tension, and in the OBC for certain they did.
Also, for clarity, saw both the same performances you did, and think it's leaning more towards a 4* review than a 3*, but not without question.
As someone who writes book reviews as a hobby, what I would consider the difference between a 4 star review & a 5 star review is how much I felt personally impacted by it. If the material is very good & technically near-perfect, then I'll give it 4 stars. But I like to save 5 stars for things that resonate with me so profoundly that I have to spend several days/weeks thinking about it, & am unable to spend mental energy on consuming anything else in that medium for a while. 4 stars is for media that is very, very good, & 5 stars is for media that feels like it was made specifically for me, even if it may technically have more flaws or weak spots.
didn't achieve the ending they were longing for? it's literally one of the points of the show.
"Cause here's the thing
To know how it ends
And still begin to sing it again
As if it might turn out this time
I learned that from a friend of mine"
I love this show though I havent seen the london production. Its an easy recommendation for me though when pitching it I do state very clearly that its a retelling of a greek TRAGEDY so they can decide for themselves if they want the emotional ride.
In my experience it's a narrative that really deepens the more you see it. I had a very strong emotional reaction to Hadestown the first time I saw it and even though I had niggling issues with the last 20ish mins of the show, the power of that last song just couldnt be overshadowed.
"it's a sad song but we keep singing though"
It's solace, and healing, and hope, and learning.
I’m a fan from the USA, fan of the OBC and have seen the OBC and I watched some clips of Hadestown West End here on youtube and I have to say that I am blown away with the voices of the WEC West End Cast as much as I was with the OBC. The WEC are amazing and their voices transcend the songs and make me so emotional. Really hoping to see the current WEC in London soon. I love the reinterpretation for the UK, with the accents of the actors. It’s as powerful as the OBC, but different, fresh and new - making me fall in love all over with Hadestown again.
I saw the U.S. tour, and it was 10/5 for me. One of my all-time favorite shows ever.
I saw the tour a few months after it started in New Orleans in 2021 and against on Feb 10 of this year in Jacksonville, FL and it’s gotten even better! I enjoyed both performances but enjoyed certain actors better the second time I saw it.
Even though Hadestown is one of my favorite musicals of all time- my biggest critic of it is that it lost a lot of the artfulness to it when going to Broadway. Now- I’m not saying that the Broadway production is bad, I think it’s a spectacular production with great actors and and players. My gripe is that in its long transition from folk opera to Broadway classic, it lost a lot of its poetic nature- especially with the character of Orpheus. There were so many beautiful and thoughtful moments in the past iterations that made you ponder about the world of the show. But that’s just my opinion- still adore the show
Could you elaborate on the kind of moments you felt were lost? I’m very curious, as I haven’t seen either of those versions.
@@pkminpkmon There were a few lines cut or reassigned from Way Down Hadestown that really added to it. There was a cut line from Eurydice “of every dresses in clothes so fine, everybody’s pockets are weighted down, everybody’s drinking ambrosia wine- it’s a gold mine in Hadestown.” It shows that Eurydice sees Hadestown as a place she could make her fortune- and then it’s followed up with Orpheus saying “everybody hungry, everybody tired, everybody slaves by the sweat of his brow. The wage is nothing and the work is hard- it’s a graveyard in Hadestown.” That line is still in but it’s given to Hermes. Without these lines being said by these characters it doesn’t have the same kind of meaning
@@jamesoniris2647I see what you mean, thanks!
no problemo! @@pkminpkmon
I’m from the US but live in the UK and finally got to see it live in London and I enjoyed it but had a sometimes difficult time understanding the lyrics. I went in blind not listening to the broadway cast first. I’m going back with my daughter who is doing drama as part of her GCSEs and I wonder how my second viewing will be now that I’m more familiar with the material and know the lyrics. Been listening to the soundtrack on repeat since the show.
I don't think it's responsible to grade something on what you wanted verses whats there.
I saw Hadestown a few weeks back during the previews and I was blown away! It was so so good, it definitely moved me and I felt utter chills at times. I would see it again if I could afford to >
Your last few review analyses have been great videos. They really show case how good your critical thinking skills are. 👏🏼👏🏼
11:55 Unfortunately the critical treatment of musicals and seeing them as inferior pieces of theatre (or even as simply commercial pieces made for profit only) isn't just a UK problem but also a problem in a lot of places.
As a theatre student in college I still see so many teachers and students who pretty much gag and sneer at the mere mention of musicals, seeing them as "Schund" (The Yiddish word for "garbage" and a title used to by critics to describe early works of theatre in Jewish communities).
Hadestown is one of those shows I constantly talk about when talking about how musicals are valuable theatrical pieces thanks to its roots in Greek tragedy (and Greek theatre) and the use of elements from classic Greek theatre, along with its contemporary elements, to tell the story
Not to forget Opera!
it's pretty horrific in Germany as well. I feel like it's a thing within countries where classical theatre and writing has a long and specific history. Unfortunately in the case of Germany most big musical theatre productions here are merely Disney shows - so really "just" entertainment and rather glitz and glam (not that there is anything wrong with that) or big compilation shows like Moulin rouge because that's what families spend money on. Shows like Hadestown would never get produced here. Hamilton did (to the surprise of everyone) and completely flopped as in GREAT critical acclaim but it just didn't sell because it's not what the masses are interested in and because musically it was "too different". I don't think the general public in Germany even knows that musical theatre can represent a huge array of styles and genres 'cause even most of the opera houses keep to My fair lady, West side story, Evita and maybe the odd Jekyll&Hyde, Titanic or Sweeney Todd.
When I went to see Hadestown (on tour) somewhat blind, I wondered how they would handle the myth's tragedy. I was floored by the elegant solution, acknowledging our desire for a happy ending but it never will be.
I went to hadestown with little information about it, I knew the famous songs and the general plot. There were so many moments in the show that were so moving.I thought all the cast were excellent I cannot see how Melanie La Barrie has any sort of ‘swagger’. I thought hadestown was so fresh and exciting but also felt very comforting. I really loved it, I hope your review will have more nuance than some of the others we’ve seen.
this is the weekly reminder critics are useless, bitter and envious and should not exist.
(not you mickey, you are our bestie.)
Okay I had to look it up because I also care too much. Grace Young is from Nottingham and is geographically Midlands
I hate when critics criticize an art or a media base on the fanbase. It is not good criticism when you criticize a stage show, tv show or a film because of a fan base, it becomes a you problem, it become a bigotry. You can criticize the work but not the fans.
I watched the show last week. Honestly, i thought the music was incredible, as were the performances. However I did find the plot incredibly difficult to follow and confusing. It took me until very far into the show to realise that when they said they were on the road to hell, that this wasn't a metaphor and they were literally walking on a road to hell. I didnt get much of an emotional response to the end and i think thats because i was so focused on the plot. I definitely wasn't the only person in the theatre who thought this either, several people around me were asking questions about the show to their companions during the interval. I would probably give it 3 ⭐️, maybe 3.5. But that being said i think i would see it again and hopefully have a better idea of what was going on in this bizarre plot
I saw it today and whilst I don't agree that the ending was a problem (I was familiar with the myth beforehand) I didn't feel any emotional connection to it whatsoever, I'm sad to say. My problem is I never cared about the characters and so I couldn't really care about what they were doing or believe in their relationships. Which stopped me really enjoying it. The music was really nice in parts but wasn't quite enough to sweep me up in it. But I do think I would enjoy it more if I was just listening to the score and not trying to invest in the show as a show, if that makes sense. I'd say it would be a 2 for me emotionally and 3 musically, so a 2.5 overall. Perhaps I was looking forward to it too much.
Edit: I did enjoy the band and the Fates!
Edit 2: I should also say, I do generally enjoy sung through shows and slower paced, character driven shows, and I also have enjoyed retellings of Greek myths, so I dont think any of this is the issue
Many people upset about the ending of Hadestown, for same reason why the Whatsonstage getting flocked on.
All and all, Hadestown, while my favorite show can also be a divisive show and not everything is for everyone, I think the much bigger issue here is musicals only being able to reach a ceiling of four stars which seems incredibly unfair. If these theatre critics don’t enjoy musicals, perhaps they should engage critics like yourself who actually *do* enjoy them. I feel like much of the reaction around the UK critics and their response to this show is because there seems to be no ascertainable path to any musical hitting five stars in the West End. If reviews of this show were this good but only attained four star reviews, it feels inherently unfair to every person who works on a musical and I think that sucks.
Honestly I think you may be extremely correct about reviewers being annoyed that it’s a cult hit without them bestowing such honor upon it. As an American who grew up in the late 90s, it seems like to me it was the standard for a long time that the biggest shows on Broadway that ran for the longest times were British shows. Even if the shows were reviewed here poorly, it didn’t seem to have an effect on the ALW or B&S shows, in some part because they were direct from the West End. I found it very interesting that the blogger focused on two shows that came out of America (wicked and deh) that have massive amounts of fans in the same company with we will rock you, which I don’t believe ever played NYC in the same breath and I’m not quite sure why but it’s definitely something that made me go “hmm”.
I also think we should have the talk about commercialism in theatre and really have it. I also hope you’re still doing the video on theatre accessibility that you mentioned in one of your other videos. I’m definitely looking forward to it.
Whilst there is definitely a reluctance to give musicals 5*, Operation Mincemeat is an example of a show where a lot of critics did give it 5*.
The concept album will always be my fave but I really enjoyed it! The 9 ft hole in the middle of stage freaked me out a bit 🙃
Went to see it last week. Booked to see it again already. There is something unnerving when you watch a show where those who know the music already are so invested in it.
However i loved it and the beautiful original music. Yes the regional accents did feel a little out of place but I think that's a good thing.
I saw the show last week, day before press night, and I still can't figure out if I enjoyed it or not. There were elements I loved - the set and the costumes, Melanie La Barrie and Zachary James incredible, songs enjoyable earworms that are still in my head - but the actual structure of the show itself really, really bothered me and I couldn't get over it. I felt you could really tell that it was initially an 'in concert' style show, and they never amended it for a full stage production. As a result there was a lot of being told what was going on and then being shown it, rather than one or the other.
I also think there was so much time spent in the saloon world that the more exciting elements - like the sense of jeopardy as Orpheus makes his way out of the Underworld with Eurydice - was rushed through in one song rather than being something to delve into. Donal Finn, unfortunately, was also my weakest link in the cast which didn't help (not that he was bad! but he was up against some belters and when Orpheus is meant to be the 'voice of an angel', he was done a disservice by being up against stronger voices.)
I went in to the show blind beyond 'its about Orpheus and Eurydice' and maybe that was a mistake (though I maintain no one should have homework to understand a show) , but there was just something missing. I really didn't hate it, but I can't in all faith say I liked it either.
I feel guilty saying it but I went to see it in LA and (with a few exceptions for amazing actors) I absolutely hated it. Given that it’s an adaptation of the Orpheus myth, I thought it should be a slam dunk. But it was meandering, nonsensical and, like you experienced, the actor playing Orpheus was by far the weakest singer (not that I could do better, but as an audience member it was glaring), but given that his song was mostly “la las” he didn’t have much to work with. I found myself wanting the lovers to get off the stage to make way for Hades and I don’t think that was the goal…
Glad someone else thought that I saw it and didn't like it unfortunately. Thought the songs were forgettable actually and it never got going for me.
I completely agree with your final thoughts of the show in general.
Another idea I'm wondering whether you'd want to cover: It's not really a secret out there that the economics of making a profit for a show are... Pretty well stacked against them.
A few hundred consecutive shows, minimum to turn a profit, and you damn well either be an adaptation of a pop culture work, or a Tony winner to last a run long enough to get there, and a dozen or so new musicals per year, and a score or so of new plays, fighting for limited stages.
And when shows lose money, they BLEED it to the tune of thousands per week, or a total loss of six to seven digits at the end of run.
So the question is - HOW should the economics of theatre change to make it not only more financially viable, but also potentially more quantitatively accessible?
I love the music in hadestown but I feel like I somewhat relate to some of the reviews. I want hadestown to move me but something about the ending (and the fact that i don't care about Orpheus) makes it just feel flat at the end
But the end is how the actual stories end in Greek mythology though. That can’t change. Or am I misunderstanding your point?
I appreciate you gently calling out the weird reductiveness of highlighting a Carribean actor's performance as a 'Carribean presence.'
I saw Hadestown at the national theatre when it toured here 5ish years ago, and honestly it felt a bit undercooked to me too! I adored the songs but the story and characters felt so prime for development that never happened, it was almost like the songs were from a fuller version of the musical that I could imagine but couldn't see. I would've given it 4 stars though, 2.5 seems almost vindictive??
I will say a watched OBC, uh, not legally, but I did find it confusing. Perhaps it was because it was a video but I remember just not really understanding if the setting with the work factory stuff was meant to be real, if the setting was like the future or past, and I found everything with Euridicye going to the underworld a bit quick and underdeveloped?
I've only just got into musical theatre more so maybe I found some of the abstract elements a bit hard to comprehend. For me its like a 3/5, I would be surprised if people weren't moved by it.
I saw this in previews on the 12th, after anticipating it for *years* and obsessing over the OBC. And honestly, I didn't like it. There were some standout performances for me, especially Donal Finn and Gloria Onitiri, but others left me cold and didn't embody the characters or really have any chemistry with each other. It just lacked some of the magic, and I feel like the score is so rooted in American folk and New Orleans jazz that hearing all of the regional accents really took me out of the story and didn't fit. Maybe it'll grow on me, maybe it was a case of my expectations and excitement being too high, but I don't feel like I want to rush back either as I was so disappointed.
And for the record, Grace is from Nottingham (very near where I live) which geographically is considered East Midlands, but in terms of North/South divide is absolutely considered a Northern accent. Brummie/Wolverhampton/Coventry/etc is a Midlands accent, and she sounds nothing like that.
People should follow the sign: keep calm and enjoy HADESTOWN 😂😍
I only saw the Broadway production (with the OG Broadway cast) and while I had a lot of fun I do think the material inherently limits the show.
There’s no humor, there are no character arcs (except Persephone) and the show is more of a staged concert than a musical.
I might not be able to perfectly articulate that last part but as I was seeing it I was wondering why the characters felt so flat. And the answer for me was… because they are.
That really limits my enjoyment of a show, when the characters, their story, the journey, is a meaningless one.
So yes, I get why someone would give this 4/5. I saw it, had a good time but felt zero emotional attachment to anything happening in the show.
Meant to write 2/5. My bad. For me the show is a solid 3 star experience, I understand why someone would be swept by the epicness of it but I simply wasn’t.
As someone who's actually northern I'm always equally amused and offended when londoners describe anyone further north than them as being northern 😂 she's from Nottingham!! Have they not seen a map? That's close to being in the middle as you can get!
This really reminds me of NY. I'm from a NYC suburb that's 20 minutes north of the city. People from NYC considered that upstate. Literally anything outside of NYC is upstate, even though upstate is defined as the most northern part of the state (and the state goes very far north and west). NYC is very NYC centric, and it's not surprising that London is similar, haha.
@@rebeccag8589 yeah that sound like exactly the same problem!! Probably the same with a lot of major cities
If you took the star rating away, would that help? Because it's likely the editorial board of the Guardian does not give five stars, and the review is stellar. Suddenly really glad we don't use a star rating in the US. I am that person that didn't enjoy Hadestown, because I felt the structure of the twin stories was weak and uneven, but (more importantly I believe) I didnt hear the cast album before I saw the show. I wasn't in love with the storytelling in the songs when I walked in and got distracted by my favorite myths getting shoved together into the Hades and Euridice Show (Orpheus is too weak of a character). We all bring our own desires to the shows we see, and those desires color our opinions. The review where they state that going in is at least honest about that.
The Guardian does give five (and some of the past recipients may surprise you!) but I agree the star rating system is of limited use.
I play Hermes on the US tour, and I Really want to plan my first visit to London to see this production. knowing the show, I'd love to see how it differs. Ultimately what makes Hadestown special, as an actor, is the fact that there's room for all types to infuse themselves into these characters. no two casts of it are exactly the same or even terribly similar. that coupled with the layers that bring new understanding with each viewing are why (I think) people love to see it multiple times. I've performed it hundreds of times and I still discover new things regularly.
Yooo Will Mann! I saw you in Philly, loved your take on Hermes!
The critics didn't rave about it first came to the National back in 2018, hence it didn't get a single Olivier Award nomination. Is this production eligible for Best Revival? not that I expect it to be nominated
I guess it’s technically a revival but there were several changes when it to Broadway and so this production isn’t identical to the National Theatre production.
Saw it on Broadway. It was very entertaining but I did did not understand the plot at all.
Go read the myth of Orpheus and myth of hades and Persephone. That will help you.
Aghh a line may have been crossed 😬
they did not?
Honestly, as an American, this is one of the few times I think the West End critics were correct. “Hadestown” has a phenomenal score and is well directed, however its plot meanders endlessly in the first act. It is a musical that could have benefited from having a book with some spoken dialogue. “Hadestown” is very solid, it just needed some more work before being declared a modern masterpiece.
That Evening Standard review sounds like the critic was on their phone the whole play. It's a good read of how NOT to review a piece of art be it stage or film. Not at all trying to be mean, but it's a really poorly written review. Yes, I am being a critic of the critic because they didn't explain their opinions well and that's their entire job.
Ultimately no matter what the critics say they're all human and have their own personal taste. I'd absolutely encourage people to see a show I've enjoyed but I'd never discourage someone from seeing a show i didn't because ultimately they might love it.
Equally opinions change over time. I used to love Wicked whereas these days i think it's a bit 'meh'. Over the last few years I've come to absolutely adore shows that do a lot with very little - Come From Away and Operation Mincemeat being my two absolute favourite shows at the moment.
There's been shows that many critics and all of my friends have loved (Sound of Music, Book of Mormon) and there's been shows that I've loved that critics have absolutely panned (years ago i saw Water Babies, a new musical at the Curve in Leicester which absolutely flopped but i really enjoyed and thought had a lot of potential).
I saw Peter Pan Goes Wrong the other day and I'm sure plenty of critics would write it off as being childish but personally i loved it.
Wouldn't it be rubbish if we all thought the same about every show?
I really like Hadestown but the more time goes on, the more I feel that the (no-spoiler) ending is completely illogical and makes it less good.
Let me stress that it's not necessarily the unhappy ending but rather the illogical nature of the challenge that Orpheus has and the options that would have been available to him and Eurydice on their journey to the world above
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@@pushkin1969let me preface with the fact that I've been privileged enough to see the show 3 times - obc and 2 touring casts. And I do love the show.
It wasn't until the second time I saw the show that I landed on an theory for Hades' trial. My theory is that Hades set Orpheus the same trial he faces each time Persephone leaves for summer - living with the doubt/darkness and testing if your faith and trust in another person is strong enough to overcome the doubt. Like he was basically telling Orpheus "you've taken me to task for keeping Persephone trapped here and throwing off the seasons up above, let's see you do better. Do you trust your love?"
My main issue the first time I saw the show was that I didn't think the text provided enough cause for Orpheus to doubt - I didn't buy that this version of Orpheus turned around, that it only happened cause that's the way the myth ended not cause it was the conclusion of THIS narrative. On repeat viewing I found some cause but I think could do with more text and less subtext.
I think these are wonderful points! I think that maybe because it’s a well-known myth, the seeds were almost not planted for the ending to land. Although in the version I saw, Eurydice was so ready to go with Hades that it didn’t make sense the other way! They didn’t make their love believable and so it felt (emotionally) like the stakes weren’t there, almost as if it should have been a coming of age story for Orpheus to accept that Eurydice fundamentally didn’t choose him (which also would have been compelling!) but it just didn’t seem to have an angle.
IMHO the ending is sad but we mustn't forget the others would follow along... reversing yet another world equilibrium
Since people are being a bit spoilery, let me say what my issue is - There is no logical reason why Orpheus and Eurydice would not simply call out to each other every minute without the need to turn around. I've tried to imagine a reading where this is a journey of the mind but nothing specifically says this. It seems she is right behind him but neither seems to talk out loud - Eurydice even says "I'm right here" - This could have been fixed with literally a few words of dialogue, "Your journey will be silent" or "Orpheus must leave an hour before Eurydice" or "Orpheus leaves by the West, Eurydice by the North". Another cool thing would have been if Orpheus dropped petals of the rose as he walked. But as it is, I find it impossible to grasp how Eurydice could be walking just feet or moments behind him and they are not calling out to each other.
I also find the "doubt" angle hard to swallow. Let's say Eurydice wasn't even that into Orpheus - she, or pretty much anyone, would lie to the person who could get them out of Hell if necessary. So unless she were physically injured or prevented from following Orpheus to the end - she would follow simply to get out of Hell.
I really think the ending could have been made slightly more credible by literally adjusting a few lines of a dialogue.
Sure, the love story between Orpheus and Eurydice has a tragic ending. But Orpheus basically solved climate change.
So is that not a kind of happy ending over all?
Fact is, not everyone gets a happy ending in life.
Hades and Persephone arguably did.
And humanity at large did by getting the seasons back and being able to keep living.
So I would not say the show does have a sad ending. It has an ending as real as life. Some things went well, others "meh" and others were cataclysmal.
I always appreciate stories that are not sugarcoated. I don't like being lied to. ;)
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How little about the world would you have to know to tie "Why We Build The Wall" to Trump and Trump only?
I was born in a country that back then was divided by a wall. Sure, I am too young to really have lived through that horror (plus I was on the side where they did not shoot you for simply waving to a kid that was waving from the other side of the wall, so I would have been able to live a relatively normal life) but there is historical context that goes beyond MAGA.
Trump did not invent walls. Just sayin'.
Haha wow - anyone who gives Hadestown a 2/5 doesn't have a clue about musical theatre
A grain of salt: they loved "Back to the Future"
The Broadway critics are vicious, so if they loved it, I would trust their opinion. The reverse isn't so true though.
Not all Broadway critics liked it.
Orpheus is wholly evil.
How?
@@antonellamR2D2 - self-obsessed, self-indulgent, never explores any possibilities or alternatives besides the single course he's decided is the right one, doesn't listen to the guidance of gods or others around him, refuses to make any sacrifices or to not give into his whims and compulsions, and eventually causes catastrophe by lacking will power. He represents the worst of us. His is a story of man giving into the worst of himself and in doing so knowingly harming those he loves, over and over again.
Great show though, and the critics who gave it anything less than 4 stars just baffle me. I saw it on Broadway in Reeve's last performance and it was incredible.
@@nikolaiivanovich2094 so he's human ;-). I wouldn't say he's evil at all. He's just weak and human like most humans in mythology (and actual life) are...
@@Simplenotion I understand what you mean, but I think the impact of the myth - as with most Greek myths - comes through the exaggeration of faults and virtues and their consequent punishment and reward. Orpheus' faults are extreme - beyond the ordinary human. This is both to serve the narrative purpose, in that it enables the punishment of his hubris, and to counterpose the strength of the artistic gift he has been given. Unlike Orpheus, most people are not single mindedly obsessed, and most people can and do change throughout their lives. Healthy adults can also delay gratification and learn to trust. In a way, Orpheus is a cautionary character for children - kids, don't disobey the gods, don't break bargains, don't eat the marshmallow, or you'll be punished. His role in the story is to be an exaggeration of humanity's worst features, and evil by consequence.
we are basically saying the same thing. I just think there is no exaggeration ;-). Look at the Elon Musks of this world. Or every basic teenager. Of course it's all a little heightened. It's a story, a myth, a fairytale, a moral of the story but other than that...@@nikolaiivanovich2094
I loathed this piece. Boring, repetitive. Saw in on what is left of Broadway. Will avoid in London.
Wow! You must not like folk operas then. It’s not boring! And I also am a fan of Phantom, Les Mis, Wicked, etc. I love Hadestown. It touches my heart everytime I see it.
@@saxyben81 I think it is wonderful that you enjoy it. It is very subjective loving or loathing plays and musicals. Some can be guilty pleasures, some are just bad. Some close quickly but I loved and vice versa. I guess since USA is still a democracy we are still allowed to express a personal opinion. Phantom, in its original production was a guilty pleasure, same with The glums, loathed Wicked. But I loved Scottsboro Boys in NY and London and loved Somethings Afoot with Tessie O’Shea and less so with Jean Stapleton.