AFR LS3 head porting and Weingartner cam shootout.
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- In this, episode 154 of PowerTec 10, DV lays the ground rules for an all out porting job on AFR's Enforcer heads. Since these budget heads are very good to start with upgrading them is going to need some hi-tech porting know-how - which is just what DV delivers.
He also brings up the latest DV Vs Eric Weingartner deal which started as a major conflict between these two head experts. Here you will find there has been a very much unexpected turn of events.
To get a better handle on the latest turn of events it is HIGHLY recommended that you watch the Weingartner Racing Video on this link:-
• The Camshaft Challenge
Here are some more video's by Weingartner Racing which might just convince you to subscribe to Eric's channel.
• Can A Smaller Carb Mak...
• Stock LS3 Heads vs AFR...
Glad you're getting involved in Eric's comp.
Would not have it any other way.
Big props for being the first to respond to EW and put it on the line for the cam challenge
David Vizard is one of my top two performance engineers, the other is Gale Banks.
Eric has a great channel. Is it your channel? No. But does he feed people a load of BS? No. He Just teaches what he has learned and shares his knoewledge. Cheers to you both.
John - thanks from both of us.
David, you need to remember that more people have only recently discovered you than those of us here in UK who have known and learned from you for a very long time.
Also the small engine market for mini doesn’t exist in America 🇺🇸 and I get lost when he speaks of those accomplishments lol
He's been in America since the 80s making books and videos.
I found his book on Chevy small blocks at a yard sale when I was a kid I read it till it fell apart!
David...thank you for sharing with us for all these years! The ones that listened and learned were almost certaintly rewarded for their time.
Most people would not share anything now days without being paid....
I grew up "Hot Rodding" in the late 1970's & beyond....All my friend's have David Vizard books in their libraries....You realy opened my horizons....I have the Grumpy Jenkins book, Waddell Wilson's book and various S&A Designs books on hot rodding motors but, your books are exceptional in their materials and sharing your thoughts on subjects.
No better book than Grumpys, but it is only about SBC.
"Its flowing like a toilet already"....
Mr V, you are a legend! I built my 461 BBC with 702 closed chambers because of your knowledge. Opened the bowls, put in 2.19 valves and deshrowded the chambers. I milled them 30 thou, and decked block to zero. Got 9.6 w/flat tops.
Isky hydro roller cut on a 110 seperation.
Big wide torque curve and pulled 575 @ 6100.
Thank you, sir!
You are welcome!
David and all my years of being in an amateur engine builder I’ve only seen a few people that I can really explain it really well and you’re one of them thank you
I don't feel its a long video, i just get settled into watching and thinking about the subject of the video, and hear like share and subscribe!😊, thats all folks! Thankyou soo much for the $million$ worth of information and unknown value in inspiration, thanks soo much!
I appreciate that!
I said my money is on you not brian tooley on EW's channel. Brian replied that I was going to owe him money if you entered. Whoever comes out on top, everybody wins.
Not sure I quite understand where you are coming from here. BT knows I have already entered and has volunteered any help I think I might need since I have very little experience with LS engines.
Great video David! I like the mix of hands on follow with the IOP analysis. Much appreciated
I appreciate your work that you put in knowledge that you share with us I've learned so much watching your shows keep up the good work Mr Vizdar💪👑
Thanks for the very interesting video! I can't wait to see how your cam will do in Weingartner's test. Some people were complaining that since each cam wouldn't be optimized (timing, push-rod lenght, etc) that it would skew the results but I think they miss the point that Eric is trying to make which is if you really know what you are doing and you have all the germane information on the test-motor, that you should still be able to produce very good results. Anyway, I respect you for taking up the challenge🤗
Are you going to enter the cam contest Eric is having?
I was the first to enter.
Glad my comment started the war. A lot of good has come out and Eric has learned that he made an uninformed comment. I know who you are and of the work you have done. Hopefully erics ego will let him realize that some of what he does is build upon what you and many others have contributed to before he was even born. Good stuff. Eric is a no nonsense good hearted guy so we can give him a pass. He trying to make it right but his ego gets in his way sometimes. Lets all learn together, and compete only when nessary. Good stuff
😂
Are you going to enter Eric's cam shoot out? Chance to prove that you are right with camshafts?
I was first to enter!
@@DavidVizard I hope you win it to put a stop to BS bashing on his behalf and a few others too. But I will admit I have concerns about other people doing dyno testing. Because one can de tune an engine to make less hp quite easily.
So how many camshafts are you going to send Eric to test regarding the bet that he is doing?
Rules only allow one!
@@DavidVizard WOJO! Im glad, that means that you are sending one! WOHOOOOO! Im so happy to see big names on the challenge
Another informatiove video, thank you Sir!
That's what I think 20 years later people are finally catching up to the hard work that would it takes just to take any engine from step one to step two,,,,, when you build it by hand and you got a thread and drilled holes it changes the world
I think that what Eric found with that big duration tight LSA cam on that 408 doesn't disprove you and Cattle Dog Garage's findings on tighter LSA cams. I think that the cam simply had duration that was too far beyond the point of diminishing returns on a 408. Holdner tested some cams on a 408 with AFR 245cc heads and his test showed that a cam with 246° int duration @0.050" lost power to a cam with 240° int duration. All I can imagine is that the big cam vs the TSP cam that made 681hp on that 408 with Promaxx heads must have been bleeding off too much cylinder pressure and may have required an adjustible timing set and adjustment to produce better power, if at all possible. 681hp is already quite a bit for a n/a 408 LS. Being a rec port head designed for small bore engines on a 4.030" bore engine that typically would have a normal rec port head this is sort if unchartered territory, those heads are typically meant for use on somethjng like a 383 LS made with a 3.898-3.908" bore with a 4" crank. Being carb'd and higher compression is a little outside the ordinary for what most 408 tests you commonly see which are 10.5-11.6:1 compression with EFI. From everything I have read the main reason for the typical cam company selling 111-114 LSA cams is for idle quality with EFI in a street car build. It's all witchcraft at times. I definatly dont know everything, I want too. I have been planning a 408 stroker build for my 2004 Pontiac GTO T-56 with a Gen III LQ4 block for years now and I take what you and Eric take very seriously. I just want to build the best engine I can without going too expensive and exotic. If there is low hanging fruit I want to find it and get the most hp/$ I can to make the car exciting and fun. I have even considered using a Super Victor on 821/823 Rec Port heads and running a tricked out Qjet just to get some of the sound and flavor of an old school Pontiac muscle car. If I could spec a cam, would probably be in the 238/246 .595/.595 106lsa neighborhood. The best cheap off the shelf cam I have seen is the Summit Single Plane 240/252 .569/.569 106 for $300, might run 1.8 or 1.85 rockers to get the lift at the valve up to .604/.604 or .620/.620 if it was any help. I suspect the cam might be too big to be much help with the added rocker ratio however and would be all wrong. For what it costs to build a 408 LS these days a PSI 8.8L industrial engine seems very tempting if I was willing to port iron heads. Those go for $1,500-2,000 intake to oil pan. Heavy but, 535ci is difficult to argue with. Josh's Engine Rehab ported the PSI heads and got 300-340cfm intake out if them. Uses all Gen IV LS sensors, 90mm 4 bolt throttle body, 58x ignition coils and computer. Thanks for continuing to make content, share knowledge and love of the hobby.
WOW - that's a lot to absorb. I think much of what you have to say will be addresses in episode 156 which should go on-line by about Sunday 8th Sept.
Nice work
You gonna put a cam in his challenge?
Already done. I was the first entrant.
@@DavidVizard awesome....good luck!
DV , you need some cutters and or collets that have a thou or less runOut ,,, ! ,,, of course the collet has to be on a zero runOut die grinder shaft ,,, .
So what do you think killed the swirl? Was it the scavenging plateau?
The port wedge or what ever it may be called.
I used a dremel with a small round debur bit to avoid seat damage for that little lip. Worked pretty good. You get total control over the tool.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,good point,,,,,I use an electric [small mikita ] with a rheostat to turn down the high speed [ make the rheostat using a wall light dimmer switch and wiring hardware from home depot ] all my burrs are quarter shank diameter ; and like you said,,,,I use a one quarter size ball burr head for around the valve seats with slow speed accuracy and control......been doin this since 1983 or so....................harley heads and anything else.......
@ThomasELeClair nice. I did it with an 1/8" ball bit. Took forever to smooth out the termite trails.
I noticed the lower rpm of dyno test results will start at 4000 rpm for erics cam challenge.wouldnt 3000 be a more challenging test? The 4000 limit would seem to me favor cam with narrow power band with peak at top rpm versus cam with more careful choice of overlap,lsa, etc that might be a few hp down at very top but much better between 3000 and 4000.
John - I agree 3000 rpm for the lower limit sound like it would be much better if we are showing what a good street cam will do. I will ask Eric what he thinks of this idea.
You’re the man!
something to consider. since the early 2000s i noticed john lingenfelter selling cams i had trouble wrapping my head around. a moderate intake lobe duration and a 12-15 degrees more exhaust duration. chevrolet produces the same type cams in their performance engines. i believed like you, a straight pattern, moderate lift, and narrow centerline produced the most torque. but after seeing some dyno sheets, with the large split duration cams made a lot of flat line torque. didn't make sense to me. what i consider the element is, sound or noise is air pressure. the exhaust makes a ton of noise. is it possible the extra exhaust duration lets out more of the exhaust noise so the incoming air charge has a better chance of entering the cylinder? sound travels at 625 mph. that is faster than the intake charge traveling through the port. imo the intake charge has trouble entering the cylinder until the exhaust valve closes and the noise has left.. so a moderate intake lobe duration combined with a large exhaust duration exceeds the scavaging of the overlap period of a narrow lsa and produces more torque. right?
noise is air pressure. bill jenkins never considered that the noise from his exhaust was giving his pro stocker tire shake until i pointed it out to him in 2011.
A Pro Stock racer would only be testing cams for Pro stock racing. Not for Economy cars .. Dirt track racers, Motor Homes , Pickup Trucks . Road racing cars.
I wish everyone appreciated the point you raised here!
Eric has a terrible attitude and awful customer service try calling him and asking him about having some heads ported he is a complete jerk on the phone.
It show in his videos too
I agree 100% with this comment.
Agree.
hi david . you have a video de how modify port a turbo charger ?
Yes turbo porting video is about 6-10 episodes back.
Thanks DV! v/r wh
Hello Mr. Vizard. I have never modified a cylinder head and have been giving a lot of thoughts about something I would like your experienced opinion on. What if a novice like me had a guide as to how much to grind and where to grind. My thoughts are to first use a small hand held Dremel tool with a tiny grinder bit that is about .020" diameter and make grooved outlines next to each other in the ports and stay away from the push rod area that will be the limiting area. Just polish that. And when all the guide lines are finished it will show how deep to grind down to remove the guide lines. What do you think?? I wonder how it would flow with polished guide lines 🤔 maybe the guidlines can straighten the flow and gain 200hp 😆. I like Eric but he sure take a scary amount of metal but he is serious about making power. I just want one hp per cubic inch from a Pontiac 400.
One hp per cube can be achieved with a cam and a set of headers! Your guide grooving idea has merit though.
@@DavidVizard Thank you Mr. Vizard I am a big fan of your videos. I think you're the greatest. 👍 I was first introduced to cylinder head porting in the early 1980s from a friend who had his own cylinder head porting service named Racing Head Service. He got good at it and he was on the cover of hot rod magazine and drove a red firebird. He's retired from that and now does barbeque competition. I told him he went from smoking tires to smoking meat. Thank you for the nice compliment about my guide line idea I was thinking it could help a beginner from hitting water. Sometimes a beginner doesn't know how much metal was removed and doesn't have good eye perception. Have a good evening
wj wasn't testing just to make his car go faster he was testing for gm performance parts its what you are paid for
Shouldn't the swirl lines be _blue?_
isn't the "swirl wing" in the intake port on the wrong side for good swirl?
The 'swirl wing' as you effectively kills most of the swirl in the important low and mid lift range.
hi, is AFR usin CFD to design their valves angles/ widths etc?
Flow bench - I THINK they use CFD for the ports
David, tried to email you, it got rejected. Can you check your contact information for the channel?
PUT A SHORT VIDEO UP ON YOUR CHANNEL WITH YOUR # IN THE VIDEO CONTENT AND THEN LET ME KNOW ON THIS MESSAGE SECTION AND I WILL CALL YOU.
DV
Oh man, please drop the drama and make engine content, that 13 minutes of drama I'll never get back. We're here for David. You do great work, we know, and that's why we are here-not for the drama.
Lawrence - I understand where you are coming from. However mu material is based on what the majority want to see.
Do they really want to see that @@DavidVizard ?
I agree, people are interested in the technical stuff, not the rants, I honestly have to skip most of the video and watch at 1.5 speed to digest these videos.
@@1616Rotor I have David set on 1.5 every video, it’s the only way to put up with the plodding Britt pontificating. Love the guy but, damn, get to it DV.
I was an engine machinist for 15 years and bought every book DV ever wrote, I’m a big fan of his content… not a fan of the drama.
Use a dial indicator and test that grinder chuck, burr shaft, and head runout.
Look for the scrap barrel.
Maybe send them free to Eric!
Mike
I could only watch 6 minutes of that. You really like tooting your own horn!!!
There is nothing there that was not pertinent. Also what I have told folks on this channel about my life's work barely scratches the surface.
What throws me is why he dont just buy a dyno so he doesn't have to go elsewhere to pay someone else, as well as many other engine builders. They're not that expensive, well they are but if you're dyno testing that much pays for one in a short amount of time ????
I've thought the same....
Sell the "toys" race cars, extra engines etc and put it towards a dyno or a CNC machine. As serious as he is about doing heads etc, i don't understand why you wouldn't concentrate on that. Yeah, they're expensive but, you can't physically do that kinda work for ever. Just my .02 in the most caring way possible for EW.
Steve Morris came from a one man nobody machine shop, look at him now !
This for the LS is Good . The ls hasnt really been unlocked Yet . LSA is what unlocked the 350 sbc back in the day . The ls family has Yet to be helped by extensive testing .
Dont let Eric bother you DV , he ISNT YOU BY FAR !! He says he is no superman but dont say anything he Thinks is inferior then he gets cocky . This IS his problem .
The fact that you Still want to help Eric shows great depth and class . Im not so sure he deserves this . But you do You David . That itself speaks Volumes .
I don't think there are many people who don't get a little rough and ready around the edges here. I know I do so I can't really hold Eric at fault for something I am also guilty of. Eric does good work as I show when putting his LS flow figures to the test. If MotorTec Features group can pass on good product sources then, regardless, we are putting out a positive service.
DV
Chatter chatter.
1st?
Wrong spot😅.
I do enjoy your videos very much and learned a ton from you . But LS engines are just lame and boring just like the other 10k Chevy engine
WOOOOOOSSSHHH !!
Does every video need to be a blow-by-blow of your resume? It's to the point that I have to unsubscribe. What a bore!
I can relate to your point of view and personally agree with your thoughts on this. However there are literally thousands of younger people finding the channel and I am a totally unknown factor.If I say nothing they will, for the most part think I fit well into the magazine writer category and as a result keep on questioning my source of information. Bottom line - I am attending to the majority market.
I always noticed how you wouldn't be a good salesman
Yes_ I really think you got that right!
This is very exiting and I am looking forward to this very much. Very glad that you are entering. :)
I guess camspec. for the winning cam will be milder than one would believe.
I suspect you do not believe in luck in this regard, but best of whishes for success anyway. :)