BOB STASCH - Interview With A Chicago PD Veteran Of 14 Gunfights
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- čas přidán 4. 09. 2013
- Bob Stash has been with the Chicago PD since 1981, and he has been in 14 gunfights.
When he began with the Chicago PD, qualifications were at 7, 15, and 25 yards, and mostly bullseye. A two handed Isosceles or Weaver stance was used. And there was no time pressure or combat shooting.
He is a firm believer in carrying a back up. But he has had to draw one only a couple of times, and he has not used one in a shootout.
In his first shooting, he and his partner each hit a perp multiple times. His initial shot was at about 12 feet, and his last two were at about 6 feet. His last shot blew out the perp's knee which finally brought him down. The perp later died from the multiple wounds. After that shooting, Bob and his partner trained to make head shots to better assure a quicker stop.
He practices shooting at combat distances [out to 20 - 25 feet], and tries to shoot exclusively with one hand to learn to control the weapon.
In a gunfight, your off hand will be occupied doing something like pushing, opening a door, using the radio, etc..
He also said that standard range shooting positions are never acquired in combat. As to a combat crouch, he found himself almost sitting on his butt at times to get low, or behind something.
He is not a big fan of aimed fire, nor is he a precision shooter.
His shooting is instinctive shooting [like Point Shooting].
What you do, is point your finger at the target with your finger along the slide of the pistol.
When the top of the gun is at eye level, and the eye, front sight or muzzle, and the target are in line, you will hit what you are aiming at.
He is a big fan of 6 inch paper plates. If he can hit them with regularity, he is certain that he can probably do that at combat distances.
In his second shooting, he and his partner were confronted by three perps. They both shot at and hit the closest of the three in the head. The other two perps took off, and were captured later.
The maximum gunfight shooting distance was maybe 20 to 25 feet. Most were under 12 feet.
Only two gunfights occurred at distance [30 - 40 feet]. In those cases suppressive fire, not aimed fire was used.
He also has had to reload only 3 times. In those situations, suppressive fire was used.
In the 14 shootings, only two or three times was a two handed grip used.
He shoots about 300 rounds per month.
He says that gunfight experience gives you knowledge of what can happen, but they are never easy. When he shoots, he shoots to live.
It is not easy to fire a gun at another human being. But just like a soldier in combat, first of all, it's your duty, to do that - if those in charge did not want you to do it, they wouldn't have issued you a gun in the first place, or had you carry it.
He has shot 9 people. Five of them died.
Most perps are bad sorts, who if not stopped, would probably hurt/kill others.
Only one gunfight was a one shot stop event. The distance in that situation was about 4 - 5 inches.
His experiences are in line with the findings of the NYPD's SOP 9 study of thousands of police combat cases.
Here is a link to a digest of the study and its results - www.pointshooting.com/1asop9.htm
I started my career in ‘68 and our firearms training was revolver based & bullseye centric. During my 30 year career I was involved in three gunfights, all w/my issued thirty-eight, and as a result had a chance to meet w/Mass Ayoob who wrote an article about these in a 2016 article in American Handgunner. Like is said in this interview the will to fight & win is what will carry the day. I had to finish one fight w/a blackjack in 1974 after running our of ammo w/my issued Colt Detective Special. I continue to carry in retirement and practice point shooting @ close fighting distances b/c that’s what experience has taught me. The brief time I spent w/Mass was well worth it. He does amazing work with & for law enforcement and has my respect.
Glad you survived those, and appreciate you stopping by to share your thoughts. I could not agree more... the most important asset in surviving a violent encounter is mindset. I also agree with the focus on point shooting, or what's also called index shooting, threat focused, etc. and for that I refer back to the old-timers like Fairbairn, Sykes, and more recently Applegate.
Old Cop I’m definitely going to add point shooting and more one handed shooting to my weekly practice sessions. Sir, thank you for posting. I’m going to find that article in AH.
Thank you for your service Bob Stash.
Excellent interview with Lt, Bob Stasch of Chicago P.D. I worked the streets & air for 39 plus yrs, Dallas P.D. starting in 1964.
That's a long career. I hope you're enjoying your retirement.
What a legend proud he's on the force making my city a better place!
Jesus . That first gun fight sounds like one of those nightmares! Yall know those nightmares, where youre in a fist fight and no matter how hard youre trying to hit the guy, it feels like youre throwing punches underwater. The bad guys not letting up and you feel like youre fighting for hours.
I cant imagine a guy eating all those rounds and still coming at you. Terrifying to say the least
had that dream
I’ve had those dreams many times also
One hand point shooting! .38 J frame back-ups! Head shots! Ol’ Jeff Cooper, must be turning over in his grave.
I began serous hand-gunning in the mid 70’s , and Col. Cooper was then The Guru, and his word was considered gospel.
His writing was exquisite, his logic, solid. He said he used his 1911, in 3 encounters .
Well, with Lt. Stasch, we have a Real gunfighter. Who knows, first hand, what works.
The guy is knowledgeable, articulate and without the swaggering bravado, of so many gun “experts”.
Yep, Cooper was a blowhard and the more time goes by the more obvious that becomes.
I am hearing this interview for the first time, six years after it was made and I must say, this is one of the best interviews I've ever listened to.
7 years for me and I couldn't agree more!
Great video with great advice. Keep up the good work. Been there twice having to use my weapon while on duty. Now a happily retired Chicago PD Sergeant, started in 1978 and understand this whole video and conversation. Thank you for putting up this video on CZcams and giving all law abiding persons you great advice. Massed Ayoob thanks for all your advice. Hope your doing fine Lt. from a 10th district ranger.
Wow. Just wow. Much respect, Bob Stasch.
Wow. Surviving and serving longer than I've been alive. My thanks, Sir.
A Great interview with a Great Common Sense Cop that has my respect having earned it the hard way by having been there and done that!! 5 Stars!
Thanks, to both of you, for a great interview.
Terrific interview from a real hero. Thank you for your service and commitment to your community and our nation, Sir. This is great information from real experience.
This dude is Mid-west as hell! Growing up early in Wisconsin I always smile when I hear that kind of accent.
nateo200 I’m in Wisconsin also lol
I went to High School with Lt .Stasch back in the 70’s . He was a good man then and an even Better one now .
God Bless you Bob and thanks for keeping Chicago a little safer than if you weren’t one of the Cities Finest !
Go BLUE !
He has a lot of fans, and deservingly so.
almost eight years later, still well worth a listen.
Great interview.
Just came across this and I have to say I have a lot of respect for that man. I wish he was in control of the department because he has a great deal of sense in how to deal with the problems. Really enjoyed this interview!
This reminds me of my great uncle. He was a police officer in Dallas for 45 years. I loved to listen to his stories about his time on the police force. He was a motorcycle cop and was right behind president Kennedy when he was shot. So many stories ! ! !
That's incredible. What an awful, yet incredibly significant moment, place, and time to be at. Of billions of people your great uncle was behind Kennedy, crazy stuff.
Thank you for this upload.
Awesome video, seems like a great guy. Funny I was a second away from posting that you didn't ask him what his stance was on the 2nd amendment and Guns by Law abiding citizens in Chicago and sure enough that was the way the video ended. 15 gun fights, 9 shot, 5 dead. Now THAT's a Lawman.
Now THAT'S a killler. Hope he's close to 55
@@beerthug Sometimes people just need killing
@@beerthug, Lt. Stasch is one of the good guys who puts their lives on the line to protect the public from the evil in this world.
Outstanding interview. Thank you 🙂
Wow this is a amazing video...this guy should write a book I would definitely read it!... Thank you for your service bob
Awesome video!!! I’m going to change my weekly training after this learning experience. Thank you gentlemen.
Just found this interview. It's amazing to me that after many years trying a lot of different guns I have settled on a EDC of a Smith model 37, same as Bob's BUG.
the 135 grain 38 special + P Speer Gold dot is the best snub nose revolver load out there hands down ! It has been getting a lot of street credit from police departments who use this load .
What a great interview!! I enjoyed it when he was talking about the .3i revolvers and snubbies. I carry a snubbies when we travel out of the commie state of New Jermany to Virginia. Matter of fact the load I carry are the old Chicago load made by buffalo Bore. I'm also a security guard and sometimes I go armed in Philly which I use same load but in my S&W 586 .357 mag. Thanks for sharing the interview
Excellent. Educational and Informative
this was an awesome interview.
I wonder what Bob Stash makes of the state of Chicago in these times?… how violent it is and how its the murder capital of the country.. in the words of Tommy Lee Jones from the intro of No Country for Old Men…” i always love hearin about the old timers, never miss a chance to do so, wonder how they’d operate in these times”.. great interview 🍻
This is an awesome interview
Great Job Sir , God Bless 🙏🏻🇺🇸
I met Bob in the early 1990s in a training class in Connecticut. He was quite a character, great trainer, and he taught me lessons that this interview brings back well.
Times have changed for police and too many are second guessing themselves and it shows in the loss of police officers.
This is excellent. Great tips.
Awesome, awesome awesome!!!
Always good to hear from heroes. Glad I am issued a G22.
I love your comment " I just want to go home", I respect that.
Valuable information
First 16 minutes I've learned a lot!
14 fire fights and still alive in Chi-town he is either good or lucky
I’d say a bit of both.
I’d go with both as well. He’s a warrior. There was so much he didn’t say.
@@reckmanD LMFAO Here you are crying about the number of gunfights Bob Stash has been in, thinking he should just let the scumbag criminal kill his partner and perhaps himself.
Now go ahead and cry that it's just the fact that he's been in that number of gunfights, not knowing a thing about any of those other events.
I don't know what's funnier… the fool you're making of yourself with that statement or your unawareness of the fool you're making of yourself with that statement. And funnier than all that, you're posting this same comedy in multiple threads.
Plus, during the heart of the crack era of Chicago? When he said he was up North and people were shooting at CPD from high rises, he's talking about Cabrini Greens
Kendall Fleming I worked in CHICAGO from 1972 Thru 1986. I left the JOB when I got hurt on the JOB in 1984 and it took 2 years for the Process. I worked the Burglary Unit and was working late at night with 4 FBI Agents as we were sitting in their car we were shot at near the Cabrini Green area. We all got out of the car, the BIG Hole was less then a FOOT into the Trunk near my Head since I sat in the back seat with the 2 Agents and the other 2 were sitting in Front. We all came out with Guns in our Hands. Needless to say we never did find out who it was. I was Spared by the Grace of
JEHOVAH GOD and His
SON JESUS CHRIST.
PHENOMENAL!
Wow ...Great interview.
He should write a book about his experiences plus his advice about real gunfights versus armchair
Warriors!!
Hopefully a lot of people will listen and learn!!
There are a lot of people out there that are bullet sponges! They don't know they should be dead!!!!
Luckily When I was in the Coast Guard 1980 to 1989. We would get training by FETEC every 6 months.
And learned lessons like this! Watched a lot of films of real fights, plus films of felons in prison practicing fighting against LEOs. Bad guys train too. Learned the Tueller Rule etc.
This was also the time when there were a lot of PCP guys with Super Human Strength.
Enlighten CO's would let us carry backups for our 1911's and 870 shotguns.
Thanks for your service on the front lines!!
6 45LC, 5 38+p and 2 44 magnums..... Still didn't Wana go down...... Damn.....
9:23 - 12:00 that story is crazy, the 2 police officers seemed to do everything right, and this guy kept on coming.
Great interview. I find it interesting that he said crime in Chicago was worse in the 70s through the 90s that at present. But he did specifically use the word "crime" and not "shootings," so that could include a lot of other things.
Great statement on the 2nd amendment! 🙏🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
For years before New York transitioned to the Glock NYPD officers were only permitted to carry Colt or S&W .38 caliber revolvers incapable of shooting a .357 round, to prevent over penetration of walls, in old ordinance, apartment buildings the ammo used was known as a beanbag round as it was a round nosed 158 grain solid lead bullet.
The Detective that trained me said they hit this one guy with 3 12 gauge deer slugs blew out both lungs and a quarter of his heart , after his attack,he was still able to run two blocks from the scene ? I believe him , maybe the guy meant it was easier to kill someone after the first time , not that shoot outs get easier?
We had a OIS locally where a coke head took 4 12 ga slug hits to the chest cavity. According to the medical examiner, any of the hits would have been fatal even if shot outside just outside the operating room. The one that stopped him took out the bottom two chambers of the heart. And he was still up and returning fire for a full ten seconds after the hit.
Nightmare fuel.
Good stuff. Guy is well-armed and incredibly lucky. The interview points out the value of training, which his interview indicates is not a high priority for the rank and file. Point shooting is a valuable skill, but just imagine how things would have turned out had he actually been using his front AND rear sights... A very sanguine point of view about his dealings with the Dark Side.
*> "just imagine how things would have turned out had he actually been using his front AND rear sights"*
He'd be dead. You'll never use your sights in a gun fight.
Sounds like a savvy old cop. I have met a few of these old-timers. The 20 and out pension systems have hurt the profession in a way.
Can't they stay AND still get the pension?
The only ones that stay are the ones that move up in rank, because the higher their salary when they retire, the higher their monthly pension payment is.
@@semajniffirg230 You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@MrMikesMondoVideo Agreed. I think the media, academics and lawyers are what have really caused problems with law enforcement's ability to do their job.
@@shredmunds7660 While that's not what I was saying in my post here, I agree with you, so maybe you read elsewhere where I said something like that. Keep in mind, no group can accomplish that without the cooperation of people's ignorance.
Interresting that 45 Colt and 44 Mag with good vital hits dont even stopp an attacker. At least in some cases. Like that with Sgt. Tim Gramins .
If you found that aspect interesting, you may also be interested in this as it explains some of the whys. czcams.com/video/wXwPtP-KDNk/video.html
I already know that but thanks!
Most .44 Mag ammo is loaded with bullets designed for big game hunting. They have tougher jackets that don't expand on humans, a relatively soft target. So they don't expand and zip through like FMJs, the most pathetic bullet you can use for defense. We had two incidents I recall right off hand, a .41 Mag and .44 Mag. Both were close range to the chest and neither dropped recipient. The .44 guy wandered around for approx 5 minutes before sitting down and expiring. Marshall and Sanow also noted this in their first book.
LuvBorderCollies - Over penetration is not contributory in diminishing a physiological stop. The FBI’s over penetration standard is driven by innocents, not incapacitation.
*> “most pathetic bullet you can use for defense.”*
FMJ is a poor choice in most cases, but that statement, globally, is not true.
*> “We had two incidents I recall right off hand, a .41 Mag and .44 Mag. Both were close range to the chest and neither dropped recipient.”*
For most today, Marshall & Sanow has, at best been disregarded, at worst been discredited. Most of the time in a gunfight people are stopped psychologically, not physiologically. All handgun calibers are very poor at creating a physiological stop. To achieve that, you must destroy a structure… either circulatory or neurological. CNS is the only off switch. Even when hitting an artery, it can take several minutes for enough blood loss to induce hypovolemic shock, which is consistent with your example. In handgun velocities, only size and enough penetration to reach vitals is relevant… and the size difference from 9 to .45 is incremental. There is no “stopping power,” and kinetic energy is irrelevant. At long gun velocities, this changes.
*> “The .44 guy wandered around for approx 5 minutes before sitting down and expiring.”*
See above.
@@LuvBorderCollies Marshall and Sanow’s “works” are nothing but gunshow jerky vendor table anecdotes.
I just made the likes to 1k. Hated changing the 999 but it had to be done.
that first shooting reminds me of a shootout between officer tim gramins and a bank robber officer gramins shot the guy 20+ times with a 45acp glock 21 17 in vitals the fight only ended when the robber leaned under the car to shoot at gramins and shot the robber 3 times in the head the toxicology report said the robber had no drugs of alcohol in his system
hear a good break down of that shooting donut operator made czcams.com/video/pdjcYjSsIok/video.html
7:24 yes
Some goblins simply don't give up. Most of those goblins are real bad people, cold blooded sociopaths who have a history of being bad and in many cases could have been legally killed by any legally armed person in a past event but were not because of lack of commitment for pull the trigger or fear of PC reactions
sounds like his shooting style was WWII OSS/SOE method
Great interview. Go Bears.
Great interview of one of Chicago's finest, officer Bob Stasch. I would like to ask Mr. Stasch a couple questions. Who he thought had the best reputation in the Chicago PD between Frank Pape or Two-gun Pete, Slyvester Washington?
And, I read somewhere that Officer Stasch was really upset with the Capital rioters who illegally ransacked our nations Capital building and specifically was very upset with the protestor's attacking our great Capital police force, and said that former President Trump should be criminally charged over this incident? I realize this is an older video, but I would like to hear what highly respected officer Bob Stasch opinion on this.more recent issue is? Thank, great interview of one of Chicago's highly respected member's of the PD.
Nothing wrong with a 38 revolver.
EXCEPT limited capacity, slow to reload, limited effectiveness, and can be heavy. As a back up, fine. As primary, no. For duty use in a big city like Chicago or NY , definitely not. The criminals run in packs, not individuals. For a civilians, they're less likely to encounter more than two or so.
Cops carried 45 Colt? I mean...it's better than .38 special I guess. I didn't know they made duty revolvers in that caliber.
he said 45 long colt! more powerful than a 45 auto! +they were hollow points.
Smith and Wesson made Model 25, N frames in .45 Colt (aka .45 long Colt) until, at least the 90’s. I have one. Beautiful revolver. Almost indistinguishable from the Model 29 “ Dirty Harry” .44 magnum.
wtf i love chicago gun laws now
So is this what happened or what he put in his reports?
How do you conclude the two are mutually exclusive?
@@MrMikesMondoVideo They always are. Reports are glorified versions of what went down, nobody puts in stuff that will get them in trouble or stuff that shows incompetence.
@Freedom Liberty Justice Now we're going to have some fun and at the same time you're going to show everyone why you're an idiot. Go ahead and back up your claim, citing the data that shows every report, which every police officer - 800,000 of them in this country - ever wrote, is not what occurred. Moreover, each one is purposely manipulated.
I'll tell you what… let's make it a whole lot easier and just cite the data that shows most of those reports. When you don't, because you can't, because it's a laughable claim that shows you're a fool, you'll demonstrate that. In fact, you're so stupid that if the claim you just made were true, there would be no point in asking the question you asked because you would have already had your answer.
I can't wait to see the next dumbass post you make. LMAO
@@gurugoguzhanson you're a special kind of stupid
@@notheretonight2851 He took his bat and ball and ran away. lol
Lori Lightfoot aka Beetlejuice should go on some ride alongs with guys like this. When she’s not busy bashing her own LEO’s or our President
He probably wouldn’t say, but I wonder if he ever let any otherwise law abiding citizens continue about their business after discovering they were exercising their 2A rights ?
OK, the first gun fight wasn't a gunfight. In fact, a lot of these fights were not "gunfights". It was a shooting or a fight, but the aggressor didn't always have a gun. Of course, the root word of gunfight is fight, but it's important, for posterity, to be clear about the nature of these fights. Just b/c you are involved in a shooting does not mean you're in a "gunfight".
That said, these fights are clearly fights for life and to be respected. The information is invaluable, no doubt. But a gunfight is a fight in which both sides have guns, which changes the dynamics of the fight entirely. I was expecting to hear how the guy fought in a situation where others were shooting at him. I also found it interesting that he doesn't refer to a revolver as a mechanical device as often as he does the semi-auto, but one is as inclined to fail as the other. Maybe this interview was a long time ago, when semi-autos were not quite as "reliable" as revolvers, but today I think it is safe to say most quality semi-autos are as reliable.
He wasn't involved in 14 "gunfights". He was involved in 14 shootings; however, I liked the interview. It is great information for those who carry a gun and may face something along the lines of a fight for their life.
Gene Cardwell your post is stupid. Shooting someone is fighting them. Whether you have a knife or pipe or gun and you are fighting someone who is a threat to you that is a fight. You are fighting for survival from some threat. You seem to believe that fantasies of gun duels in the old west is the definition of a “gun fight”
Nice picayune semantic dissection.....when is your book being published...and how many "fights" of any type, manner, or description have you been in.....now be quiet, MEN are talking here
I respectfully disagree Gene Cardwell. There are no "small" battles when you're fighting for life. Every contest in which someone could lose their life is a "fight" in some sense.
There's no fucking way that that guy lived "10 days" after he was shot point blank 5 times, and at least a total of 10 times.
Not in the movies you watch, where people get knock off their feet when shot and are canceled with one round, but in the real world, he did. And it was total of 15 rounds.
AceTFR The last four shots, two to the upper torso, one in the pelvis, and one in the knee cap were with a S&W Model 29 .. thats a .44 Magnum round .. the most powerful commercial handgun round in the world at the time .. people have succesfully dropped Alaskan brown bear with this gun (albeit I'm sure with much hotter loads) It is truly amazing this guy lived even 10 minutes let alone 10 days. My question is with that many wound channels what was this guy doing in Cook County jail when he died? Why was he not in a hospital under guard? Thats the hard part to believe.
AceTFR There was a gunfight between Chicago PD and an assailant in the 14th District at one of the hospitals. The assailant was shoot 10 times with a 9 mm. He lived to go to prison and sue the city.
Chris Strobel no all handguns are under powered if it was a shotgun than I wouldn't believe it but handguns just poke holes in people even a .44 magnum cannot compete with a 5.56 7.62 or a shotgun
AceTFR my ma was shot in the head point blank with a full size .45 in front of me when i was 12 and survived. made a fantastic recovery, doesnt drive, but is able to work. so yes, it's possible. all depends on where you get hit