In my opinion even Cirno is harder than Sans... And I think we can blame it to the fact that Undertale works even more in patterns than some Spell Cards do.
I find sans to be harder than most Stage 2 bosses. Stage 3 however? Nope. Undertale *is* an RPG first and foremost, and sans' fight focuses moreso on platforming rather than actual bullet hell.
@@Niiue I unironically hate Cirno a lot because of her first two openers, even though I already 1 CC EoSD, I will always bomb them, its so hard to capture her openings consistently
@@Niiue I find EoSD easier than PCB though, sure PCB has borders and less RNG their P.Sisters, Youmu and Yuyuko feels way harder than Patchouli and Remilia.
yup that's fair. item management is also something that exists too, since if you're inexperienced, sans can take loads of HP off of you. otherwise he's a breeze compared to stage 4 and above touhou bosses
Imagine actually saying that but in touhou battles you get Like three Lives I would just Imagine how funny it would be if he just wipes it all out with One bone XD
It's ironically easier than most Touhou Stage 3-4 bosses on Normal difficulty, on Lunatic even Stage 2 bosses are way harder than Sans. Even if we take the undertale fan games as an example of FDY with its Oversave tale (which for some reason is considered the apogee of complexity), then even there literally no boss can be compared with the tops in complexity in the Touhou, Hecatia, Rika and Sigma, I also remember Flandre from FDF as a trio, which was twice as difficult for me as all the bosses of Oversave tale combined, despite the fact that I played oversave tale on normal mode, and not on noob mod. And this despite the fact that among the most difficult representatives of danmaku shmups, the Touhou series of games is considered one of the simplest, for example, Bullet heaven 2 (did not play the first part) at the heavenly difficulty level, this game is approximately, and sometimes even more difficult than Touhou on a sleepwalker, the final boss Akron game are about the same in difficulty as the representatives of the trinity mentioned above, but already on heavenly + difficulty (heavenly + handicaps for speed), he alone will shame them (and this is not to mention that you can include all handicaps in general). Despite the fact that in Bullet heaven 2 there is a mouse control, which allows you to make much more flexible maneuvers than playing on the keyboard. And this one, not to mention the tops of danmaku shmups, even at the easiest difficulty level, is more difficult than Touhou games on a sleepwalker, for example, like games from the Cave campaign, the same dodonpachi dai-ou-jou the first 1CC on the death label (sort of like the maximum difficulty level) was set 7 years after the release of the game, although this game for many Cave fans is not even the most difficult passage on 1CC. Why am I messing around so much here? Yeah, I'm just unreasonably pissed off by comments from fans of undertale and fangames about the difficulty of their games.
*Touhou games on a sleepwalker Touhou games on a lunatic. I also note that I learned that Black label and Death label are not difficulty levels, but DLC.
This kind of comparison is very interesting to me because of the way it shows how relative difficulty can be. Touhou games and the genre they're apart of are focused very intensely on this difficulty. They are a challenge; a test of skill, and have been raising the bar to match their player base for decades. Undertale is not a game about difficult battles, and even though most fangames are, they are new, and exist in relation to the story more than the challenge. In a narrative heavy game about making friends and wandering through the underground, in a route where you are accustomed to wiping the floor with monsters through your stats to the point where dodging is basically optional, the sans fight is a *massive* difficulty spike which will stop most players in their tracks.
The only thing that would makes Sans fight only *slightly* harder than given credits for compared to a touhou boss fight is the soul mechanics and the blue bones. But it's quicky overshadowed by the fact that you have hp, healing items, and MUCH easier pattern to go through compared to touhou's
Agreed. The sans fight is still hard, but there's... harder. Though, towing the line between hard and fair is difficult, with some undertale fangames failing to do so. I'd say that touhou makes its difficulty fair while making it hard, so that's why I actually play it lol.
i managed to beat sans in sans simulator ( yes i healed a lot ) in like an hour, and i never played undertale or touhou so that means sans in a simulator is easy-
@@rumia_789 I'd personally recommend touhou 7 PCB as a starting point for touhou games but 6 or 8 should be fine too. However if someone wants to dive straight into hell (pun intended) then start with touhou 11 subterranean animism or god forbid legacy of lunatic kingdom.
I beat EoSD's extra stage but couldn't beat sans, the reasons could be that undertale's hitbox is bigger than touhou's and undertale has other type of gameplay mechanics than just bullet hell , while touhou is literally just bullet hell and nothing else, don't even get me started on genocide undyne.
@@Niiue 3 months late but it's alright you did a damn good job for a 1st try. Also you might not know but there is also a modded version of this fight which makes it harder if you are looking for a little challenge.
ah... a lot of people seem to misunderstand that this my first try at sans. it *was* my 3rd or so attempt in a few years though. personally, i'm fine with beating this sans. not too interested in mods and stuff, but i appreciate them nonetheless!
I'm honestly surprised there aren't more jokes about Geometry Dash players beating sans. That game is on near impossible levels of difficult sometimes. Even the easy levels will take most newcomers 20+ attempts, and I could beat Sans first try.
Wait, is it possible to continue after losing all your lives? I just started to introduce myself in the saga about 1 week ago and I started playing EoSD which is the most recommended by people
Sans is pretty easy once you find out his weakness. And that is 90% of his attacks being static. Sans needs routing like Touhou does on much later parts of the game, but his patterns are easier to get through and route however. Although he is on a game where you have a massive hitbox, a small box that limits your movement, slow player speed and hitboxes that are accurate to their sprite so no-hitting anything in this game is so bullshit to do and shouldn't even be attempted because of how poor this game handles hitbox and area of movement (Same goes for the next game Toby Fox made called Deltarune because it's just the same thing except there's a focus button.) Why do people think this guy is hard to beat?
My guess is that Sans is a bigger spike in difficulty than people expected, so they are caught off guard and panic instead of properly practicing for the first tries. Sans is hard to beat if you don't know what you're expecting. The thing is that nowadays, people *know* about sans and how hard he is, so they can brace themselves and properly practice, using other people's videos of him and their own experience. Of course, there's also factors like player skill, item management, etc. Some people can finish sans in a blind playthrough with no more than 10 tries, while others spend days attempting him.
Sans isnt too hard, I can do it with no items if I really tried, note that the simulator is easier than the fight in game, try playing sans last breath if you want more of a challenge btw
Makes sense, EosD is a whole game while Sans is a shorter fight. Memorizing the patterns are a lot easier. Also, based Charlotte pfp if I'm not mistaken
It was my 3rd or 4th try in years. I probably sunk like 15 or more attempts into it years prior as well. And uh yea, I've seen a lot of sans fights. You can't really stop it in all honesty.
@@iosis9324 that's the sad part idk how but even though i can first try sans this attack does more damage to me than like anything else he throws out (particularly the version with the larger blasters) 😭
I'd like for you to elaborate on what touhou logic exactly means. If you mean everything would be like Touhou, ie wider screen, faster character, smaller hitbox, as well as lives and bombs... hm. I'd say he'd be a challenge, but only in the sense that... he switches up the genre of game from curtain fire to platformer. If you mean just scaling this in proportion to a touhou boss, then he's not that bad. Bit of practice and he's done with, like a stage 3 or 4 boss in normal.
I think I get it... i was thinking if u only get hit once u die, it's hard to shoot him due to him moving u around, and possibly messing with ur HUD (if that's possible), karma (hard to implement, maybe you get hit, you have to do a mini game in the middle of battle to remove it before death... or just a debuff) it would be... annoying if not difficult. Tbh a mod would be cool... cringe, but cool. Try to just... put him on a touhou screen and figure it out. Always touhou in undertale, Never the other way around.
You couldn't have known how the gaster blasters work or the fact that you don't have to jump through the bones on the last platform pass at 1:45 if this was your first attempt You don't play like a player of any game that hasn't played this before and just fyi normal players of this game can practice the fight before they beat it too
@@aleph1192 yeah but the novelty goes away the more you practice and the title is misleading. I thought I was going to see a newcomer figure out sans and thrash him in record time but instead I just saw another sans fight from someone who'd been trying to beat him for over an hour before recording. This is a normal player fighting sans
@@bovineintervention6001 fun fact i beat sans after my 3rd try in this session, mostly just warmup since i didn't fight sans for a while. anyways, sorry for misleading. i meant to convey that i, a recent touhou player, tried to fight sans.
No no... you have it wrong. I mean newcomer as in, I was a newcomer to the Touhou Project games, rather than sans. Though this is roughly my 3rd try in that session, I had actually dumped in a few attempts in the past. Sorry to disappoint.
In my opinion even Cirno is harder than Sans... And I think we can blame it to the fact that Undertale works even more in patterns than some Spell Cards do.
I find sans to be harder than most Stage 2 bosses. Stage 3 however? Nope. Undertale *is* an RPG first and foremost, and sans' fight focuses moreso on platforming rather than actual bullet hell.
@@Niiue I unironically hate Cirno a lot because of her first two openers, even though I already 1 CC EoSD, I will always bomb them, its so hard to capture her openings consistently
@@mrsquadbot i never played EoSD, so I don't know how it feels, but i HAVE played PCB on normal and almost 1cc'd...
@@Niiue I find EoSD easier than PCB though, sure PCB has borders and less RNG their P.Sisters, Youmu and Yuyuko feels way harder than Patchouli and Remilia.
wtf? cirno is easy as hell dude, sans is atleast the difficulty youmu or yukari.
the only thing hard in sans is that there is no more raymoo's pixel hitbox
no more hax box
Wow Hello Whale Koishi Plushy Person
@@kutaka7570 hello the person i see everywhere
I think what makes Sans easier is the fact that you get actual hp xd
yup that's fair. item management is also something that exists too, since if you're inexperienced, sans can take loads of HP off of you. otherwise he's a breeze compared to stage 4 and above touhou bosses
Imagine actually saying that but in touhou battles you get Like three Lives I would just Imagine how funny it would be if he just wipes it all out with One bone XD
@@ddx-art9794 his damage is 1,and with KR i think he do it ngl but not sure...
@@Sncw.7843 but you don't get any invincibility frames meas he would just do that 1 damage constantly in touhou you at least get invincibility frames
@@Niiue undertal mods: :/ just that i have an impossible mode which the players have one hp
To beat Sans no damage first try one must be a scholar of platformers instead of danmaku
Smb 😂
Or sonic
Geometry Dash makes this fight look like a cakewalk
@@tensixtyoclock You're not the first to say that but for the love of god make this be your last GD overhype
It's ironically easier than most Touhou Stage 3-4 bosses on Normal difficulty, on Lunatic even Stage 2 bosses are way harder than Sans. Even if we take the undertale fan games as an example of FDY with its Oversave tale (which for some reason is considered the apogee of complexity), then even there literally no boss can be compared with the tops in complexity in the Touhou, Hecatia, Rika and Sigma, I also remember Flandre from FDF as a trio, which was twice as difficult for me as all the bosses of Oversave tale combined, despite the fact that I played oversave tale on normal mode, and not on noob mod. And this despite the fact that among the most difficult representatives of danmaku shmups, the Touhou series of games is considered one of the simplest, for example, Bullet heaven 2 (did not play the first part) at the heavenly difficulty level, this game is approximately, and sometimes even more difficult than Touhou on a sleepwalker, the final boss Akron game are about the same in difficulty as the representatives of the trinity mentioned above, but already on heavenly + difficulty (heavenly + handicaps for speed), he alone will shame them (and this is not to mention that you can include all handicaps in general). Despite the fact that in Bullet heaven 2 there is a mouse control, which allows you to make much more flexible maneuvers than playing on the keyboard. And this one, not to mention the tops of danmaku shmups, even at the easiest difficulty level, is more difficult than Touhou games on a sleepwalker, for example, like games from the Cave campaign, the same dodonpachi dai-ou-jou the first 1CC on the death label (sort of like the maximum difficulty level) was set 7 years after the release of the game, although this game for many Cave fans is not even the most difficult passage on 1CC.
Why am I messing around so much here? Yeah, I'm just unreasonably pissed off by comments from fans of undertale and fangames about the difficulty of their games.
can't really comment on this but thanks for sharing!!
@@Niiue Powerfully said.
*Touhou games on a sleepwalker
Touhou games on a lunatic.
I also note that I learned that Black label and Death label are not difficulty levels, but DLC.
This kind of comparison is very interesting to me because of the way it shows how relative difficulty can be. Touhou games and the genre they're apart of are focused very intensely on this difficulty. They are a challenge; a test of skill, and have been raising the bar to match their player base for decades. Undertale is not a game about difficult battles, and even though most fangames are, they are new, and exist in relation to the story more than the challenge.
In a narrative heavy game about making friends and wandering through the underground, in a route where you are accustomed to wiping the floor with monsters through your stats to the point where dodging is basically optional, the sans fight is a *massive* difficulty spike which will stop most players in their tracks.
Theres a game thats harder than the fangames you mentioned its called rhythm recall
The only thing that would makes Sans fight only *slightly* harder than given credits for compared to a touhou boss fight is the soul mechanics and the blue bones. But it's quicky overshadowed by the fact that you have hp, healing items, and MUCH easier pattern to go through compared to touhou's
Agreed. The sans fight is still hard, but there's... harder. Though, towing the line between hard and fair is difficult, with some undertale fangames failing to do so. I'd say that touhou makes its difficulty fair while making it hard, so that's why I actually play it lol.
His attacks seem rather slow compared to touhou. And when they speed up there's less things to avoid
your hitbox is much larger to compensate however... still much easier than a stage 6 boss though
i managed to beat sans in sans simulator ( yes i healed a lot ) in like an hour, and i never played undertale or touhou
so that means sans in a simulator is easy-
@@liamaincraft7614 If U Wanna Get Good At Bullet Hells U Should Play TH 8 : IN First
@@liamaincraft7614 try undertale last breath it good
@@rumia_789 I'd personally recommend touhou 7 PCB as a starting point for touhou games but 6 or 8 should be fine too.
However if someone wants to dive straight into hell (pun intended) then start with touhou 11 subterranean animism or god forbid legacy of lunatic kingdom.
Tou Hou players: this so easy that I can do this eyes closed
You have no idea how much easier things get when you have a health bar and healing items.
That is extremelt true
But the hit box is huger
Cirno is way harder than sans, evidence that cirno is truly the strongest
the beloved tomboyish 9
Drip sans solos
@@FZresetYT Drip Cirno Solos
@@FZresetYT drip cirno solos
I beat EoSD's extra stage but couldn't beat sans, the reasons could be that undertale's hitbox is bigger than touhou's and undertale has other type of gameplay mechanics than just bullet hell , while touhou is literally just bullet hell and nothing else, don't even get me started on genocide undyne.
i agree, they're similar games but still fundamentally different. it's like comparing minecraft to terraria.
Undyne the Undying and Sans genocide are harder than a lot of touhou boss fights
why did i expect a no hit run, just because i saw touhou
i'm sorry i disappointed your expectations (i am still a newcomer)
@@Niiue 3 months late but it's alright you did a damn good job for a 1st try.
Also you might not know but there is also a modded version of this fight which makes it harder if you are looking for a little challenge.
ah... a lot of people seem to misunderstand that this my first try at sans. it *was* my 3rd or so attempt in a few years though. personally, i'm fine with beating this sans. not too interested in mods and stuff, but i appreciate them nonetheless!
Well I gave up
glad you did, i was at the end of my rope there haha
I'm honestly surprised there aren't more jokes about Geometry Dash players beating sans. That game is on near impossible levels of difficult sometimes. Even the easy levels will take most newcomers 20+ attempts, and I could beat Sans first try.
Undertale is a platformer bullet hell. Unfortunately for sans, I do well in both (gd especially)
Top 150 = imposible for the 99.99%
i cant beat sans while i can reach stage 1-5 in eosd without continues is that normal
they're different types of games, you're just more skilled at bullet hells rather than platformers and managing your items, i guess?
@@Niiue thanks
Blame the hitbox for too big
i guess you could beat jevil without a sweat
Wait, is it possible to continue after losing all your lives? I just started to introduce myself in the saga about 1 week ago and I started playing EoSD which is the most recommended by people
the patterns look comically slow for some reason
They are lmao
well that what i really think when seeing undertale, i remember my friend who play touhou and i totally agree he can evade everything here
Oh shoot I can hear graze
he has the ears
Mark watching how he plays through his messenger tab: Noice
elaborate?
@@Niiue Zuckerberg
@@franfb7934 ah i see, it's a pleasure to have my gameplay watched by mr. zuckerberg. now, get out from my messenger tab!!!
How many grazes was that?
no clue but probably more than 13
Seeing how laser beam attacks are basically graze farms I approximately will say about 1300 points of graze
Wow this is such an amazing video from a small channel! I hope your channel grows popular!
Thank you, I really hope soAs Wel
I remember in my prime i could do this fight no hit, and most of my runs were no heal. Now i suck at Undertale, lol.
We have a badass here folks. No hit sans is beyond me, and I still consider it very difficult to do.
@@Niiue yeah i can't do that anymore tho, i can still do no heal.
@@teei2 Hey, least you can do no heal!
holy mother of god
Wait I remember fouding this video some years ago and I just found it again and it was YOU who posted it LMAAAAAAOOOO
Small world we live in HAHAHAHAHA
Also you can did FULL SCREEN MODE in this Bad Time Simulator...
F11 .
Or click right batton mouse and you can find full screen...
ah, thanks for the info!
Hot damn
Sans is pretty easy once you find out his weakness.
And that is 90% of his attacks being static.
Sans needs routing like Touhou does on much later parts of the game, but his patterns are easier to get through and route however. Although he is on a game where you have a massive hitbox, a small box that limits your movement, slow player speed and hitboxes that are accurate to their sprite so no-hitting anything in this game is so bullshit to do and shouldn't even be attempted because of how poor this game handles hitbox and area of movement
(Same goes for the next game Toby Fox made called Deltarune because it's just the same thing except there's a focus button.)
Why do people think this guy is hard to beat?
My guess is that Sans is a bigger spike in difficulty than people expected, so they are caught off guard and panic instead of properly practicing for the first tries. Sans is hard to beat if you don't know what you're expecting. The thing is that nowadays, people *know* about sans and how hard he is, so they can brace themselves and properly practice, using other people's videos of him and their own experience.
Of course, there's also factors like player skill, item management, etc. Some people can finish sans in a blind playthrough with no more than 10 tries, while others spend days attempting him.
@@Niiue Yep, that's true. His attacks are also based on reflex and catching the plyer offguard but I *somehow forgot* all about those ones.
I guess only these weaklings called "normal people" finds this fight hard, otherwise its super ez
(I am just kidding tho, please don't kill me)
@@henriquealves3086 you have 7 days to live
(jkjk)
He was listening to "komanoe-ru''
perhaps...
wow
nice
Damn and i'm here dying to Papyrus
dang, you'll get better as long as you keep playing the game though!
How do you die to papyrus
He leaves at one hp and then "captures" you in his shed
Lmao he so bad he managed to die to papyrus!!
Sans isnt too hard, I can do it with no items if I really tried, note that the simulator is easier than the fight in game, try playing sans last breath if you want more of a challenge btw
Ok!
Sans it's actually on easy modo
ehhhh easy modo?
@@Niiue How Lame! Easy Modo Is Only For Babies!
I have beat sans no damage and yet, I couldn't beat eosd on normal mode
Makes sense, EosD is a whole game while Sans is a shorter fight. Memorizing the patterns are a lot easier.
Also, based Charlotte pfp if I'm not mistaken
@@Niiue yoooo you're right
Would've been better if it had included the dialog and we could hear you reacting to it.
...But I guess that might be something of a spoiler.
it wouldn't be anything interesting cause i've fought sans a lot of times beforehand.
Without spell cards ヽ(ﾟ〇ﾟ)ﾉ
Undertale No Bomb run
what’s poppin’
it's yuyuko!!!!
@@Niiue hi
so slow and easy for touhou players)))
although... the hitbox is way bigger and there's the gravity mechanic. still easy to read even as a very new touhou player however.
Just play some undertale fangame then it's more crazy
@@RETZZ69 Tough I don't know if the playable version is complete
@@user-hp7kk4gq6t yeah
@@user-hp7kk4gq6t if you search likes last breath sans you will know if this sans is more stronger/hard to beat compare to original sans
What try number was this for you? Or did you watch any videos of it beforehand? Just curious
It was my 3rd or 4th try in years. I probably sunk like 15 or more attempts into it years prior as well. And uh yea, I've seen a lot of sans fights. You can't really stop it in all honesty.
@@Niiue Gotcha, thanks for replying! And good run :)
A roblox player (probably undertale obby) playing touhou, after undertale
what in tarnation are you saying bud
are you an amogus player because you’re sus
@@GabeChua what in tarnation are YOU saying
@@Niiue mid :/
@@Niiue well, i mean watch roblox sans au fights
Also, the touhou is exist too
yo i just did impossible i beated sans no hit on a console.
how did you manage to fail the most easiest attack THREE times? This is literally the only attack closest to the Touhou bullethell
2:47 3:44 4:42
ddddont worry about it im kind of stupid
i was throwing for the content (i have no excuse)
that attack hits me way more than it has any right to it doesn't look hard but there's something about it
@@archerbias6597 how? 😭
you literally just have to walk in circles and they won't hit you.
@@iosis9324 that's the sad part idk how but even though i can first try sans this attack does more damage to me than like anything else he throws out (particularly the version with the larger blasters) 😭
Im not a touhou player so im curious: If this fight ran on touhou logic, would this be considered difficult?
I'd like for you to elaborate on what touhou logic exactly means. If you mean everything would be like Touhou, ie wider screen, faster character, smaller hitbox, as well as lives and bombs... hm. I'd say he'd be a challenge, but only in the sense that... he switches up the genre of game from curtain fire to platformer.
If you mean just scaling this in proportion to a touhou boss, then he's not that bad. Bit of practice and he's done with, like a stage 3 or 4 boss in normal.
I think I get it... i was thinking if u only get hit once u die, it's hard to shoot him due to him moving u around, and possibly messing with ur HUD (if that's possible), karma (hard to implement, maybe you get hit, you have to do a mini game in the middle of battle to remove it before death... or just a debuff) it would be... annoying if not difficult. Tbh a mod would be cool... cringe, but cool. Try to just... put him on a touhou screen and figure it out. Always touhou in undertale, Never the other way around.
Oh... good job on beating sans so fast btw. :)
@@oofmasta9395 I'd done it in a few tries that session, but it took me a lot more tries way back when~
@@oofmasta9395 Karma could work like something to seal bombs, or something, I dunno!
Now do FDY DUST
what in good heavens is that
@@Niiue it’s an extremely hard undertale fan game
@@DannyMagik88 which isn't cannon and probably has yet another version of sans
for me what makes undertale quite difficult is the movement even though i always use arrow keys i find the movement in undertale hard because of that
true, its a bit clunky
@@Niiue ye
Easy
yup
1:26 This wasn't your first try, was it?
No, far from it~
You should try undertale last breath. Its a good game.
You couldn't have known how the gaster blasters work or the fact that you don't have to jump through the bones on the last platform pass at 1:45 if this was your first attempt
You don't play like a player of any game that hasn't played this before and just fyi normal players of this game can practice the fight before they beat it too
i um... i didn't say this was my first try?
The title simply said that they were a newcomer, which doesn’t necessarily mean this was their first try.
@@aleph1192 yeah but the novelty goes away the more you practice and the title is misleading. I thought I was going to see a newcomer figure out sans and thrash him in record time but instead I just saw another sans fight from someone who'd been trying to beat him for over an hour before recording. This is a normal player fighting sans
@@bovineintervention6001 fun fact i beat sans after my 3rd try in this session, mostly just warmup since i didn't fight sans for a while. anyways, sorry for misleading. i meant to convey that i, a recent touhou player, tried to fight sans.
@@Niiue I think they thought you were referring to undertale when you said "newcomer"
How did u beat sans from the first try??? Is this actully real
No no... you have it wrong. I mean newcomer as in, I was a newcomer to the Touhou Project games, rather than sans. Though this is roughly my 3rd try in that session, I had actually dumped in a few attempts in the past. Sorry to disappoint.
@@Niiue um actully its undertale fan game not sans🤓 also how many time did u died🤔
Late repsonse, in my lifetime probably in the double digits, but no more than 20-30 for sure.