IS ☯ - Difficulty in Touhou Games
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Another episode of Ignorant Stohory for you ! This one was a little bit harder to put out since i had a lot of work on the side, sorry if some bits are either imprecise or wrong.
I tried to do my best though, enjoy ! #touhou #difficulty
You make some nice points. However, something you missed is that LoLK does in fact give you such a mechanic to work with, much like the other games - and that is the graze mechanic. All you really have to do is make sure you reach the graze requirement on each "chapter" and you'll earn lives like a madman. You can easily reach the graze requirement by using bombs, as well. This is why, at least for experienced players, that they think clearing LoLK, at least on Legacy, isn't as terrible as most people claim it to be. The fangame you listed does something similar with chapters and graze, although the juice mechanic has an arguably larger impact than pure graze does.
Yeah, i noticed that i left the graze mechanic out, but the problem i find with this mechanic is that it doesn't give you an upper hand when trying to dodge bullets, although it could give you more bombs since you get more lives. (That's not how i finished LoLK at all, not at all.)
I'm not saying that the game should be a breeze, but that it should be possible if you do it for the first time, for example : Clownpiece's lasers can't be dodged efficiently if you don't know that they are coming.
Huh that's a funny way to see it. To me it was always the opposite: all games have an extra life grinding mechanic, and the fact that this game's requires you to put yourself in particular danger with grazing is what rises the difficulty.
It's true that if you are experienced you can graze reliably, but I've seen friends going nuts over accidental deaths.
And I mean, you can't ignore this mechanic if you want to survive either...
Fubu72 That's also a feeling i can get behind, the game emphasize risks much like how DCC forces you to go up in order to collect lives and bombs, but the reward you get for grazing just isn't enough for the challenge that LolK offers.
It leads to frustration and well...
It's never a good thing to be frustrated in a game where you must be precise.
Yeah not only I feel it is more dangerous to graze than autocollect (due to the precise maneuvering). But also my perspective is that DDC gives you a bunch of bombs and extra lives if you make good use of its main gimmick, while LoLK won't give you any extras, it will just kill you if you don't make good use of its own gimmick.
Btw I just stumbled into your channel and really liked the format of this video, I'd be great to see some more in the future -but never stop the shitposting-
An incredibly well made video, however of course bombs is a player's most powerful attack, whether it be HRtP or LoLK. On top of how lives are earned, which can be considered its own gameplay mechanic; A game can have a really strong mechanic, like TD- but not give many lives. Or a game can be rather barren but give a lot of extra lives, like LoLK. Just something else that could be put onto the wheel.
Thanks for the compliment. ;p
For bombs, what i meant is that in IKUSAAAAAAN !!, it's able to be spammed much like a normal attack, rather than be used as a last resort. But you're right on the mechanic part, if the game is balanced around it, it is rather fine, but the number of lives given in LoLK doesn't make the challenge easier.
Though it gives you more chances to die, so that's a thing. ^^
I believe the lives in LoLK does make it sliiiightly easier, for instance I got LoLK Lunatic in my 2nd try, while TD Lunatic took me about 20.
Pearl I'd say it gives more chances, but not an equal challenge, some cards can't be avoided when you play for the first time.
There's a reason why a lot people play as Reisen in this game, because her bomb was built around survival.
This was a very interesting video and I fukin love the editing :D
You deserve many more views in your informative videos, considering how enveloping it was and how well the information provided was conveyed and presented. At least 10 000 views per year.
The fine ambiance created alongside an skillful utilization of animation and effects is what made this video interesting during the time it is watched. I also liked very much how you came to the question of analyzing what difficulty is and providing an outline with your conclusions on what determines difficulty.
Building up on this model may take you far; it may take you to a point where you can trasnmit complex information in a simple way, much like Planck's equation defines that Energy is transmitted in small parts every time, each one of those being called "quantum" (E = h * f; "h" is the Planck's constant, and "f" represents the frequency; note "f" might also be represented by the letter "v").
Keep up the good job
Junkodidnothingwrong
In my view outside the mentioned points, the main problem LoLK had for fans was its high base and ceiling difficulties. Easy mode was as hard as hard mode for beginners and Lunatic was difficult to the point of pixel perfect dodging for veterans. Honestly, I still loved the game thanks to point device mode which at least teaches beginners not to depend on bombs for spellcard clears with minimal punishes for failure.
I played the game on lunatic legacy( my 1st lunatic)
Junko's first nonspell is probably the hardest micro dodge i fought in a main game
Tho the worst was her last spell : completely undodgeable from the moment she shoot blue bullets i have the highest respect for anyone who captured it
I just want to say that when it comes to the touhou project spin off fighting games I actually started on normal mode because I already had and have a lot of experience with fighting games in general due to growing up with super smash bro’s.👍🏻🥰😅
Wow je croyais que tu allais rank les jeux par difficulté mais non c'est bien plus que ça. Good job ^^
I recently tried marathoning lunatic nobombs to sharpen my skills.
On EoSD the "hard" game I reached stage 4, while in IN the "easy" game I only reached 3.
Personally I find that if the bullets come from one direction it’s fine
It’s when they come from the bottom of the screen I’m boned
Which explains why heaven and hell meltdown is so damn hard
There's a spellcard in StB where bullets comes from left, right, up and down at the same time
Cafe de Touhou and xi-on, YOU MY GOOD SIRE, HAVE SOME CLASSY TASTE ;)
Not a bad video, I would add "precision in execution" as an item that might go hand in hand with "reaction time".
Thanks, it's true that in retrospective, I forgot a lot of things in this video.
But I still like the fact that people are enjoying what I do anyways. :p
Sexi french voice
Nice, love jazz too!
Wait that's not the why you make this? Jokes aside it's a good way to say that hard mode in IN is easier than normal in LOLK heh
Depending on the person huhu
I feel like you`re missing one factor: Forgiveness. Take Dark Souls for example. That game, while not necessarily super difficult, has become somewhat infamous because it harshly punishes the player for their mistakes. A game can be easy, but it can also be frustrating if a single mistake means losing a lot of progress. It`s this reason that rougelike games are also considered generally difficult: once you die, it`s back to the start. You said that for LoLK that Pointdevice and Legacy modes were roughly the same difficulty, but if you factor in how far you go back for a mistake, then Legacy is much harder. Otherwise, nice job!
The problem for me is...
For example, is Touhou 15 more forgetful if you play as Reisen?
Maybe not, you need to learn how the bombs work first in order to get an advantage out of it. It's true that in term of forgiveness, Touhou 15 might be the worst, but again, that is due to the number and tightness of the bullets on the screen.
Surely, a new player will have a better time with Touhou 10 since the game offers a lot of bombs, thus being less severe.
I`m not trying to make the point that Touhou 15 is easy. I`m just saying that when you die on Pointdevice mode, all that does is set you back 20 seconds or so. Yes, the other games are definitely easier. But in those games, your mistakes have consequences, whereas here there is nothing pressuring the player to succeed on their first shot, thus making the game feel a little more relaxed despite the bullet patterns.
Flygoniaks But at the same time, it doesn't make the game easier for some. Even if you get set back 20 seconds, or to the nearest checkpoint, for me, the problem stays because the difficulty is still the same and someone that cannot get past Doremy for example is going to get frustrated.
I know that Pointdevice encourages trial and error, but some people will still have a hard time beating the game if they don't push forward to see the other cards, for me, it's more of a plot device. (Which at the same time, could explain why this game is so different from the others.)
I would say that it's less about forgiveness and more about the consequences of death.
I loved the editing in this video.
Touhou 15 is the most known for difficulty, but 11 and 12 are also considered more difficult than the others
Touhou 11 was hell but after that touhou 12 was a breeze. After that, i simply started the next games on hard. Still don't know how though it'll be to complete 13 in hard since i bought it recently
Also, touhou 12.8 has probably harder patterns than touhou 12 sometimes, but since you can freeze bullets regularly, it's fairly easy
*a lot of harder patterns
Very nice and interesting video, really like how you brought in a few fangames as well n̶o̶t̶ ̶b̶c̶ ̶i̶ ̶r̶i̶p̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶k̶u̶s̶a̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶
-I won't thank you at all for the OST though.-
More seriously though, thanks for the feedback, i'm starting to have a bit more interest in fangames because of the ones i saw, i'll see if i can do a video about them.
I'm sure you've heard of the major ones (Fantastic Danmaku Festival, Concealed the Conclusion etc.) but there's some really neat hidden gems out there. Two games I hardly ever see people talk about are Crystallized Mythology (a well-made 3 stage shmup that recreates MoF's engine to a very impressive degree) and Avant-Garde Discerning Paralleler (this one has you playing stages individually with two playable teams with 14 stages total (7 per team) and 2nd loop versions available if you score well enough). CM is free while AGDP you have to buy (though there's a trial which contains most of the game).
You know what i'll give them a try, i mean, you can never have too much Touhou.
Futo looks so cute in the Thumbnail
You ave euh vérie goude accente . Iou spique vérie ouelle angliche ! Congratutlations!
Fanke you very muche.
Iou ouellecomme.
Naïsse commentating, very beau ♡
Watching the slaughter in the background.
I believe another part that makes the difficulty of a game is their tutorial.
How the game teaches the player, the tutorial or start of the game is obviously the first thing the player will see and first impressions are everything, the quality of the tutorial can make or break a game for the player.
Tutorials in touhou are practically nonexistent. I had to look up how to shoot when I started touhou.
(It was Z) apart from the in-game manual, the game teaches you nothing.
And a bad/nonexistent tutorial in my opinion makes a game hard as in... Unfair hard.
But that's my opinion.
Do you have any idea how long it took for me to learn about touhou14's mechanics???
While the problem applies to all games, it's true that the absence of a tutorial doesn't help new players, but that's a problem that only exist on our side. The problem is that since we play it digitally, we never have the instruction booklet that comes within the case of Touhou Games, where the instructions on how to play are written.
However, i do believe that in newer games, there's an in-game manual that instructs you how to play and which key corresponds to which action.
But yeah, it's a problem but not one that comes from the games itself, rather it comes from how they are brought to the west.
How much did it take you to learn Touhou 14's mechanics though ?
Surnist touhou 14 was my first modern touhou game as i was mostly playing 7, 8, and 9 at the time.
The idea of poc was still a very foreign concept to me and the way it was written in the instructions confused me somehow.
"What i gotta go up and offscreen to get 1-ups?!?!" (I have no idea how i got the idea of going offscreen)
It wasn't until i saw a video that it made sense although it was in part due to me misunderstanding english words. Lel...
Although i think that actually a tutorial might not be a part of what determines the difficulty of the game per se...
It just maybe determines how the player will percieve difficulty in the future, but it is a dick move for developers to not make their players aware of certain mechanics, its okay to hide some mechanics like rank, but important ones i believe should be told one way or another.
Like pressing shift. Hahahahah... Hah........
Maybe going to the wiki ?
Like when you start a game
Good shit man. Keep it up.
Which wheel you say? T H I S O N E !
Ikusan's OST is so damn good
difficulty, what is it? *vsauce music starts playing*
(Btw Magnificent video)
You forgot the glitches
B-b-but EASY MODO
LOL, K.
Let me guess, the Jazz music is from DDBY Cafe de Touhou 3
Zephyr Zerorium As it is written at the end of the video.
good video, like always my friend! like i can say in my natal language "continue comme ça l'ami!" :D (in reallity, i just don't f*cking know how to create this phrase, just zap me iku, make me work better )
Tu pourrais arrêter de m'ignorer bordel xD
Normandy 2hu Mais je ne t'ignore pas.
Bruh
the way you said junko was cancer why?
Très intéressant, mais comment pourrais-tu prouver avec un pur raisonnement que Iku est le meilleur personnage, et non Junko ? :3
Maréchal Luvimi Et bien, vois-tu Jamy, c'est très simple.
Iku peut transformer ses vêtements en armes et contrôle la foudre avec le pouvoir du Disco.
Est-ce que Junko peut faire du Disco ? Non, bah vwalal. :3
Gengetsu est la meilleure
Rap time
Yeah, you shouldn't bash people who play on easy mode, but easy mode is something that the games inherently make fun of and I think it should be made fun of a bit. Even as someone who regularly plays on easy mode, I like to make fun of easy mode.
Parle de la maniabilité de Youmu dans th13. Je ne peux pas considérer ce shot type comme étant comfy.
Si par comfy, tu te réfères à la dernière phrase que j'ai dis, que la difficulté est un peu comme une zone de confort, alors je te dirais qu'encore une fois, tout dépend du joueur.
Certes les modes de tir de Youmu sont ne sont pas orthodoxes, mais ils sont utilisables, le tir normal pour les cibles seules tandis que le tir concentré est utilisé pour les groupes d'ennemis.
Pour jouer Youmu dans ce jeu, il faut juste avoir un peu de connaissances avant de se lancer, puisqu'il faut charger le tir secondaire avant que les ennemis arrivent. Mais après, ce n'est plus une question de difficulté mais de mémorisation.
Rappelle-toi, ce n'est pas parce que tu n'aimes pas un tir qu'il est forcement mauvais, d'autant plus que Youmu peut rush les boss sans aucun souci avec l'aide de son tir concentré (sans compter sa carte qui raye l'ensemble de l'écran et la vie des boss en quelques secondes).
Youmu n'est en aucun cas mauvaise dans ce jeu, il faut juste s'habituer à un style de combat un peu différent. Reimu est plus statique, Marisa plus volatile, Sanae est plus proche de Reimu mais a plus de mobilité, tandis que Youmu est plus proche de Marisa avec son tir principal.
Oui, donc Youmu est un tir qui est puissant, mais qui n'est pas conseillé en blind.
Youmu est satisfaisante a joué
Tu peux tuer les ennemies avant même wu'ils apparaissent
@@poledra4153 ça dépend de si tu maitrise bien le jeu ou non, si c'est le cas, tu pètes le jeu avec, sinon, le shottype devient plus handicapant que les autres et donc ça donne moins envie.
oui ça dépend du joueur en effet, mais faut pas dire "t nul", c pa bi1.
Loved
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