Brandon Ellis Super Smooth 3nps Economy
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- The amazing @BrandonEllisGtr stopped by on Friday with his beautiful bevy of sea foam guitars and battery of tasty phrases and techniques. It's always a thrill to sit down with players who are willing to share literally decades of learning with us, and it helps answer some important practical questions for the rest of us as we move down the same path. For example, Brandon is an expert wrist-forearm player, very similar to other amazing friends of Cracking the Code like uncle @BenEller and @teemu_mantysaari . What this means is that when playing a tremolo on a single string, this type of picking motion creates a diagonal where upstrokes go up in the air and "escape". When you have this type of wrist-forearm blend as your picking motion, one question you'll eventually have, is what's a good way to actually "do" the motion of economy picking? The way Brandon does this is super smooth and effective. The string changing motions are just the hand going sideways via wrist motion. But you can also see in the closeup shot that the middle note on each string still escapes via wrist-forearm motion even though it doesn't have to, i.e. it's not switching strings. This is the memorized primary motion doing what it has been trained to do. So Brandon's description of what he's doing is exactly correct. Not only that, but from filming sweep pioneer Frank Gambale, we've seen that his motions do the same thing - the middle of the three notes on each string still moves along a diagonal, even though it's "landlocked" in the middle of the string.
Yessss. What a great collaboration.
When are you going to make an appearance on here, Dean? Would love to see a slo-mo of the intro riff of "Remote Tumor Seeker"!
"If I do it quick enough it'll prolly happen", then plays it perfectly.
Definition of "don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong"
You know you've made it to the top, when the invite from Troy drops.
Kudos, Brandon Ellis is a monster with one of the best vibratos in the biz.
We feel the exact inverse - we're always thrilled when amazing players are willing to sit down with us. Keeps us humble.
@@troygrady , you're almost too humble.
But, in the end we all win.
Thank. You.
Troy can tear it the f up with the best of 'em!
His lack of ego is part of why we keep coming back.
seems like almost all the guys that have played for Arsis have great vibratos
@@troygrady Is there a full interview with him on your website? I've been subscribed previously and would happily re sub to see this.
The best modern metal player out there in my opinion.
Mr Ellis reminds me of Eric Johnson but more metal Edged and aggressiveness. Still he has his own style. Troy I hope there's more to come from this precise picker!
This was a great interview, lots of tasty musical ideas and harmony nerd type conversation - Brandon has a jazz-like mentality, just applied to metal.
@@troygrady how does one watch the whole interview?
@@troygrady His phasing is Warren Demartini all the way.
@@troygrady where is the interview man?!?
Such a talented guitarist. Im currently learning their discography
RIP TREVOR
Brandon is a beast
Conviction and vibrato for days
Brandon Ellis, ive been trying to play one of his solos "removal of the oaken stake" it has a tricky part where i always fail, a series of killer arpeggios, not easy at all, this guy is truly amazing.
Are we ever going to get Jeff Loomis on this channel to talk about his sweep picking techniques? I'd kill for that camera angle on the intro solo to the song Psalm of Lydia. And also the river dragon has come solo gets an honorable mention.
I support this
I love Loomis , his style is so original and articulate. Psalm of Lydia intro is a great one to learn also Requiem for the Living intro also kicks ass.
Yessssss
You should look at his Ultimatum playthrough, it's heavy sweeping on the intro and has that nice camera angle :)
Been waiting for the full BE workshop on CtC for a year. What's the delay guys?
where is this full episode? the fact that its not up is Criminal!
where is the full interview?
I am not surprised to finally see Brandon here. Has been my favorite player for a while now.
At the moment I am practicing his cascading arpeggios. Feels close to impossible for me, but my economy picking is starting to improve thanks to him :)
I do it too and slowly but surely I started to pick up his speed in his cascading arpeggios exercise. At first felt impossible and too fast. The last bit for sure, the E major part ;)
@@guitarplayersparadise520 I struggle with rolling my fingers, particularly when it gets fast. Some position changes also feel extrememly akward. Might help for ask on patreon, in order to make sure that I practice the right way.
@@s4tchowns make sure to do it reeeal slow at first thhough I know it sucks, and make sure that you hear one note at a time and not simultaneously. That does the trick and you start to pick up speed
Where do you find tabs?
@@taunokekkonen5733 On his Patreon ...
Brandon is incredible. One of the greatest modern players IMO. Troy, have you seen Wes Hauch play? He has got to be the cleanest and most accurate picker I have ever seen, Rick Graham is up there too.
When is the full episode available? It’s been months 😢
I dont think it ever will be lol
I just discovered your channel and ive discovered how much i have to work on my picking! Im gonna try to have fun with it but man i never knew how bad i was at 3nps stuff. I prefer economy vs alternate personally as my first metal.songs i learned were by a7x.
3NPS stuff and string skipping while tremolo picking, 2 things im so sloppy at
String skipping while tremolo picking is not a thing many players do. There's a mandolinist you can check out who is an expert at this - Evan Marshall. Amazing player.
Nice to see you going some shorts my man!
whoever figures how to play fast like that but still have it sound good (you know like music) will have something special.
This is great! As a side note, Troy, have you seen Dave Davidson of Revocation play or have any plans to get him on this series? He has a picking technique that looks like no other; he seems to play unanchored but plays with speed AND power that just don't make sense. I'm used to one or the other (speed or power) but not exactly both. If you haven't seen him before, look up his video lesson (pt. 1) on The Hive here on CZcams. He tremolo picks there incredibly fast across multiple strings.
Not familiar with him but looks like a great player. His lead playing technique looks like what you'd expect for a wrist player using a pronated arm setup, similar to death metal legend (ha) Molly Tuttle. Pronated players use a thumb-heel anchor, so it doesn't look "unanchored" to me. Again, at least for the notey stuff.
@@troygrady Thanks for looking him up. I should have clarified: it's specifically his fast tremolo picking and tremolo strumming that look a bit unusual (hard to identify what type of motion he's actually doing). His "shredding" (picking individual notes for a solo) look a bit more straightforward. Just thought that his picking might be a cool addition to your collection! Keep up the great work you're doing!
@@kennethnegy9467 you can hear Dan Mongrain influence on those Outer One solo. Really amazing.
@@kladen2006 Yeah, true; I knew he was a huge fan of Voivod, but I had never gave them a listen before. Definitely hear that there's a similarity
I love the almost hybrid rough-smooth sound of economy picking and would like to use it more often, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around it once I try for certain tempos.
What worked for me was to consider each string to be a gear like in a car, and you "downshift" from one string to the next. So you hit 3 notes on one string and then *downshift* to the next string with a *down* stroke. When you first get it right, you'll know because all of a sudden you are playing faster than you thought you were capable of.
@@vincelupone I'll give it a go the next time I practice. Thanks!
Brandon is def one of he greatest metal guitar players atm.
Is there a full hour with Brandon, I'm signing back up if there is
So excited when I saw this video pop up! Love Brandon's playing and vibrato.
This guy fekken coaches me. Not only he is great as a player, he s hell of a teacher too. I picked so much from only 5 lessons and am learning his stuff meticulously.
PS Troy you rock, you were the first to explain me that weird Yngwie technique in Cracking the Code. (Well, now not weird at all, feels innate and genuine almost).
I translated all CtC series into Russian, second by second.
Dang, that's cleeeeeeeeeeeean.
Brandon is the best!
This Jackson guitat looks amazing🙂😀😀😀😀like fender 63 colour🙂great job Boys
We spent time on the lights to make sure the sea foam green showed up accurately! Beautiful guitar.
Great technique and most beautiful color scheme I've ever seen on a guitar!
Can't wait to wath the whole video ! 🔥
YES!!! I knew this day would come! SO EXCITED!!!
So ready for this entire episode.
You have to hook the index finger and position the pick to have the tip pointing upward to do this. It feels like you are swiping through the next string when you do it. The form can cause hand cramps in the picking hand because of how closed off the space between the thumb and index becomes. I’m sure making yourself aware not to clinch in that area will help eliminate that to some degree.
This approach I found to work really well on two string 3nps passages. It can work for more string groupings but as you start from the day the low e to the high e doing a traditional e minor 3nps phrase, you’ll notice your pick angle dramatically changes once you get to middle and higher string sets, that’s because of the movement being wrist based which in nature is going to change the pick angle when changing the strings.
He is a killer player. Definitely hope u guys coverd a little bit of arpeggios because his shapes are so cool.
Yep definitely talked about his economy arpeggios. Lots of music nerd-style harmony discussion as well about modal flavors he likes to use.
That's like a very Stump kinda lick
Indeed. Joe does a lot of scalar economy. Joe's motions are more Yngwie-like. Brandon's more wrist-oriented approach is an interesting contrast. For those who use wrist techniques, it's a nice blueprint for another way to make economy motions work smoothly.
when do you invite paul gilbert?
Troy finally has my favorite guitar player on the show!
Thanks Brandon
I knew this day would come!
Wow! Thank you so much for this. So excited to watch the full interview. I can't wait to practice some of Brandon's ideas. Also, I'm sure he's already on your radar. But, if there's ever a way to set something up with Stephen Taranto, please do. His technique seems like it's primarily 902 based. But, what I really want to hear from him is just how he thinks about writing and his path to getting to where he is now. Dude is an absolute titan and it seems strange to me that's there no real in depth interviews with him anywhere. Of course, you guys are separated by an ocean, so that may prove to be a bit of an obstacle ;)
Oceans are problematic! Tons of great players down under that we'd interview in a second if we could get there - or if they could get here.
Finaly Brandon Ellis!
Wonderful music.
I noticed he didn’t pick the e string when he descended the scale. Used a little legato to turn it around. Always find it interesting to see diff ways to change direction when using econo picking
is there FULL THING OF THIS?!
He sounds awesome live
Interesting, at 0:14 when he begins his descending run he starts with legato before picking the remaining strings. A clever trick, the "turnaround" is always the hardest part for me! (not that I'm great at any of it...)
it´s awesome!!
Sweet Jackson!
Wow, what a beautiful technique. Visually, it looks like his right hand is only "playing" a fraction of the notes that his left hand is.
It's a bit of an optical illuision isn't it? The motions for economized scale playing basically looks just like those for alternate picking, just slower.
Where is this full episode?!
I want to see Andy James do a video with Troy like this!
We've spoken to Andy but the pandemic got in the way. We're swamped but he's a great guy and hopefully we can get back to it.
I love seeing economy pickers on here. Its what ive always just done without thinking. Trying to turn it around but its tough man. Bad habits die hard
Brandon ellis is my idol. I would reccomend anyone who wants to learn to be a shred god to check out his patreon
Yeah, I'll get right on that.
Where can we see the full video?
Love what he Brings to TBDM
That Jackson though
Where's the full version 😭
Let's go Brandon! Awesome player!
That is the most tasty jackson guitar I may have ever seen
Any update on when the full interview with BE will be available?
Waiting on the magnet to diagnose some descending alt picking flaws in my playing...
That was awesome! Invite Andy James, plz!
YES!!! WHERE'S THE WHOLE THING????
Brilliant player. :)
I personally love economy but the downside from my experience is my alternate has gotten so sloppy from overusing economy 😄
well some things cant be economy picked for example 4nps scale runs
scales are so difficult to me and he's playing them so easy 🧐🤯😅 I've never heard about this guy before.
Scales are easier than anything else because you just learn patterns and it becomes muscle memory. But when you have to break out of those patterns...oh well lol
Guitarist for The Black Dahlia Murder 🤘
Incredible band...
When does this new material drop?!?! 🥵🥵
Probably over the next couple of months or so. We have a few things in the pipeline ahead of him that we're still in the middle of editing.
@@troygrady very exciting!!!
Brandon on fucking up Eco picking: "If I do it fast enough it will happen"
*Doesn't happen* 😂
This guy is just too good 🤘🏻
FINALLY!!!!!!
Omg, yes yes yes yes yesssssss!!!!!
I could never economy pick. For some reason it broke my brain
Joe Stump styyyyyyle
I just could never get into economy picking, man…it always messed with my time. My sense of pulse is highly connected to “down on strong beats, up on weak beats”, etc. From a rhythmically philosophical standpoint, alternate picking is almost like an extension of strumming for me. It’s easier to accent things, especially during highly syncopated runs, when your pick is ALWAYS moving down and up relative to the beat. I suppose I could’ve developed economy picking for more straightforward runs like this but that train feels like it left the station about 20 years ago…
The exception is when you have odd-numbered groupings like triplets or quintuplets. Pure alternate will flip to upstroke-on-downbeat every other repetition. So ironically, keeping downstroke-on-downbeat orientation for those phrases actually *requires* some kind of economy, or unpicked/legato notes. It's a bit of a mind bender.
Brandon Ellis, very cool 👌 We need some alternate picking analysis, his moving hand is very swingy
We talked about scales both ways - economy and alternate. Brandon's alternate picking motion is a mix of wrist and forearm, so you'll definitely see the hand moving back and forth in that distinctive "windshield wiper" pathway traced by wrist motions.
@@troygrady his wrist dance is similiar to Anton Oparin's alternate picking. For Anton it's an indicator of loose in the wrist, i think he told something like that in one of the russian lessons. In Anton case this move is much more slight. That's my observation, im not a pro :D
I had to check the player's parameters to be sure the video speed was set to "normal".
I can decend no problem but man I have do much trouble doing this ascending it feels so disconnected right now
Hello sir! Do you have any chance to analyze bass picking techniques?
“If I do it quickly it might happen.”
Nope.
HA.
The last person I heard someone say something close to that was Shawn Lane.....He said that sometimes if you play it faster than you normally can, even sloppy, you can eventually get up to the speed you want and get it cleanly.....( I think that's right)
Brandon giving off that casting couch shy girl vibe. But we know he nasty!
Nice Kahler dude!!!
I play straight-ahead bebop, and I pick the same way (except no right-hand anchoring). When transitioning to another string, always first stroke in the direction of the move, and straight up/down while on any given string. No exceptions ... aside from longer pauses, after which you reset with a downstroke. Anyway, if you're used to straight up/down, it feels weird when you do it this way ... and after a bit it feels weird when you don't. I don't necessarily think it's inherently faster, after all there are plenty of alternate pickers who manage just fine. But personally I think it helps me to avoid sounding like the "angry typist" at higher tempos. Tempi.
Jimmy Bruno also plays this way. Great player who we've also interviewed.
Hah, that's basically where I got it from😉. Jimmy is a very great player indeed.
Can we expect the full interview to be posted on the Cracking the Code site @Troy Grady ?
Eventually, yes, but we've got a few things ahead of this that we're still working on editing.
@@troygrady push this to the front of the line!
Badaass guy
Hes a machine
Thankfully he's programmed for good, not evil!
how do you get any kind of sound angling the pick like that? I just get a scrapy horrible sound.
Does Troy post anymore?
finally!
Yeah! Can't wait to see this one. Brandon is a beast! 🔥 Also, I want to request an interview with Obsidian C from Keep of Kalessin, his picking technique is INSANE czcams.com/video/hPmlguGFA9w/video.html
Igor Paspalj please.
linus tech tips?
troy you should check out Cesario filho... is a beast economy picker
Great player!
is this going to be a class?
Is that a Dunlop Tortex 1.0? Lets Go Brandon!!
Sort of! It's one of his signature picks. But the material felt like Tortex and the shape/size was similar to a Jazz XL.
It could be really interesting to get synyster gates (Brian Haner). He relies heavily on economy picking and rest-stroke ideas. He is influenced by gypsy jazz
The thing is, in his solos he uses a lot of economy picking, but on his rhythm metal parts there is a lot of pure alternate picking.
It is a nice balance, also, he plays heavily anchored with his pinky, and his pick angle is definitely not common.
Maybe not the "cleanest" player, but outstanding nonetheless. Also, his note choices and style are just magnific
Get Joshua Meader on here!
When will Roy ziv episode coming out ?
Soon! Probably in the next month or so.
Yo is this coming out?
Was just thinking this too lmao
For me ascending 3nps is way easier than descending. As an intense rock 1 alumny I don't find much problem switching alt to eco ascending (towards treble strings), but going the other way around (00:15) is impossible for me.
For economy picking 3 notes per string, you need to change from down-pick slanting ascending to up-pick slanting descending (like he does in the video). Maybe you're already doing this, but thought I'd point it out in case you weren't.
@@Jimmy.Williams hi thanks for the reply. I tried it but it was too difficult haha. It’s not as natural as pushing the pick down to the next string when ascending. Sweeping up just doesn’t feel right. I’ll just stick with alternate for now
This is a common problem. You can see in the clip that these are almost two completely different techniques for Brandon. Not only is the arm position a little different, but the way the wrist joint is moving is also different. In general, whenever you're trying to learn a technique you've never done before, high trial and error is the first step. Trying lots of weird things until something goes fast and feels easy, even if it's sloppy. It doesn't have to be a super high priority - just whenever you have a few minutes, and whenever you feel like it, you can try experimenting with slightly different arm positions, grips, and motions, and see if you can find something that feels easy when playing those descending lines. It doesn't have to be clean, just easy and fast. One hint about Brandon's form here is that the pinky side of his hand is no longer resting on the strings in "descending" mode, so he doesn't have muting. That's something we discussed in the longer version of the talk.
@@troygrady wow thank you Troy
Will surely try it
Man, you gotta get Jeff Loomis in a video!
Jeff is awesome!
Which kind of pick does he use? Dunlop Jazz3?
It's his signature pick made by another company (forget the name) but it's very similar to a Jazz IIL XL and the material is very similar to Tortex.
@@troygrady Thx master!
CTC desperately needs Cesario Filho, Rick Graham, Anton Oparin and Roy Marchbank. Four absolutely incredible guitar players.