Gran Turismo 7 - Tyre temps and what was going on at GTWS Autopolis
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- The recent GTWS race at Autopolis threw up some interesting question regarding tyres since update 1.49...in this video I explain what was going on to the soft tyres and why some people couldn't make them work!!
Just for reference all temps are in Celsius
Autopolis track temp 29c. Tyre start temp 60c. Optimal performance window 70-75c
Tyrewear x2 Fuel x1
Catalunya track temp 25c. Tyre start temp 60c
Tyrewear x3 fuel x1
I wonder if this would relate to camber and toe. Tyres usually have inner, middle and outer temps too. But idk if PD went that far... cos then that'd imply "pressures" as well
@@freedom_born The camber model is pretty broken so I doubt that's being simulated, although with how PD operates you never know...
Great video - it really makes me wonder just how advanced is the physics / weather system in GT7 that we are unaware of due to not having visible data. Temperature is clearly a factor as is now more evident than ever. We know that wind direction is a factor now on how certain corners feel and braking points etc but is there even more detail that exists in the background of truely dynamic weather physics like air humidity etc etc - very interesting topic and video. Not sure I’m sold on this model just yet but will see how I feel across a number of combos in coming weeks
It's far far more advanced that most anything out there, and they have to be very very careful what they expose because they have access to some of the most critical data from manufacturers and massive black magic tire data from Michelin. IRL racers experience this by extremely realistic behaviors, others just like the mental theoretical spreadsheet ego stroking beliefs others have something better. It's not their models, they're basic physics models, but the data tables that they run on are the golden goose.
Cheers Flash....yep there is a lot of subtle things going on you need to take account of in GT7 that it does make me laugh when people call this an arcade game(I hate the simcade tag as well tbh)....I dont remember having to brake 3-4 metres earlier in ridge racer because of a tail wind lol.
I'm hoping we get some multi compound tyre races soon to really see how things work out.
These new physics absolutely punished every bad aspect of my driving style, I could barely finish with the Mediums. That doesn't mean the physics are bad though, it means I need to improve.
Respect for saying how it is. Sometimes its ourselves.
Personally i think that people get too relaxed with more forgiving physics.
Im glad they're heading in more realistic direction.. some bugs need to get sorted but it looks promising.
I agree the change does punish bad habits more which I think is a good thing tbh. I did feel it had become a bit forgiving to drive the cars and you rarely seen people spin or crash...it definitely expose bad braking technique more than before, I found this at bathurst this more to my expense lol.
As someone else said I respect your honest assessment of your driving.
This is very interesting. When i did my initial testing with track temps i just looked at the wear and went there pretty much identical. I never bothered to look at my lap times and consider how the car was handling as i was just putting it down to me getting used to the physics.
Youve killed it this week with the content.
Cheers Sonic...sometimes I think I enjoy testing stuff more than racing lol.
The tyre temp things is pretty interesting especially the fact that the operating window is different for different compounds....could make for some interesting races with soft and mediums mandatory.
@wombleleaderracing6455 It's been great seeing so many of the Community doing testing and giving feedback back from it. Your videos have helped a lot with all of this as well.
The biggest surprise has been pad v wheel tyre wear. Me and Sheltie have done a few lobbies together practicing for Team v Team and that's where we discovered our tyre wear difference was just a few corners different, and this could possibly be down to brake balance.
Well I have a slightly different theory as to why this is but jts just a theory at the moment...but basically I think tyrewear might now be distance based(as long as other parameters are met)
@@wombleleaderracing6455 that could explain why tyre wear is so close now
I can tell a big difference when tires are cold vs warmed up, I really like the new physics and feel like I have slightly improved my driving since the new change.
Yeah I agree you can feel they are not quite gripping when cold whereas when overheat they feel spongy. Im enjoying the handling update as well....feel you have to drive more sensibly now and get punished more for mistakes.
Thanks. Can't wait to see your physics analysis of the recent update.
Cheers Tetra...tbh im not sure il do a video on the physics as its such a subjective subject in saying that I am planning an updated video on the Logitech G Pro so it likely il talk a bit about my thoughts on it in that video.
@@wombleleaderracing6455 Fair enough, that'll be interesting. I gues the most relevant aspect of new phys for womble would be if it affected tyre wear/strat.
Fantastic insight this is a massive help thanks. I'm finding the same issue for round 4 testing of Manuf cup. Softs on the 911 dropping after 5 laps. Reminded me to install the simhub app on my laptop
Appreciate that and glad the video helps. Iv not looked at next round but I hear the track temps are very high again.
The biggest problem with trying Catalyuna is that it doesn't have an uphill braking zone like Autopolis or the corkscrew of Laguna Seca. Maybe the mountain at Mt Panorama but it's after the peak and not before. Puts more heat on the fronts than other tracks.
Edit: PD also seemed to have modified the temperature threshold for heat in the UI so it's even harder for people not looking for it to find.
I chose Catalunya as it was similar length lap but I really think the biggest factor for the tyres behaviour was the temperature at start. Autopolis was 29c and could go as high as 31 whereas I entered and left Catalunya about 20 times and highest I got was 25...I genuinely don't think this overheating tyres issue will be a problem very often.
I feel like the physics wasn’t really changed as much as they softened the suspension. You can go to tuning sheets. They have softened all of them.
This makes no sense.. You could run these same settings pre update and the cards did not handle like this
@@lyci13 you are correct. I’m not saying there wasn’t. After re reading my comment. I definitely could have worded it better. As I kinda contradict myself in the first sentence. My apologies.
@@MorrWorm8 No need for apologies my friend!
Well I'd say the biggest change to the handling i felt was more suspension feel and more loading of the car in fast corners.
Gr3 handling getting a bit of hate since 1.49 but I like the trickier feel and less forgiving braking.
Brilliant Video as always. As you said towards the end, why have important performance related physics which you cannot see? For most drivers looking to improve times, how can you do analysis on your driving and a lap, without Data.. you just cant. So ultimately if your laps are slower, without data, you cannot be sure if its your driving or tyre temps, which could actually lead to more bad habits. Every other Sim provides tyre temps, why does GT7 not, easy, GT7 always leaves you wishing for more, they have done this for 10 years now lol,
Yeah as much as I love GT there is a few things I just find unacceptable like this. If the Data is logged and tracked just put it on the hud...the other big thing that bugs me is the lack of adjustability for the camera views. In 2024 its just not good enough!!
Great video 👍 Fellow empiricist
I agree that we could do with the SimHub / Sim Dashboard Temp information on screen and up front
Other information that would be nice is wheel lock. In other sims, Porsche Steering Wheels' LEDs light up if front left/right or rear left/right lock.
Sad thing is, on GT7, Cabin View, the LEDs are there, they just don't don't do anything. They aren't active.
As we can see with Sim Hub/Sim Dashboard, the information is there, behind the scenes, it's just not being shared with us
Cheers TJ....its strange that for a company that thrives on the little details that the info on the wheels of racing cars doesn't work.
More annoyingly is that the Ferrari VGT shows you tyre temps on its wheel display but we don't get that info as standard.
Thanks for the video. Thanks for the mention 👍😎
No worries Dec....glad your brought it to my attention.
Thanks Womble. Very interesting 👍
This is what i was suggesting in one of your videos earlier in the week as i felt i was loosing pace on the last couple of laps at spa on daily b as the hards were dropping outside of the thermal operating window. Not sure if that was the case. We definitely need temp info on the hud now if this is the case.
Its possible the hards are even going the other way and losing temp on the front. Iv noticed the fronts at bathurst can struggle to stay above 65c....either way its definitely info every driver should have access to!
Great deep dive Womble, very interesting to see!
Thank you appreciated.
Them. Whats going on with tyres. Me. They just go round & round as usual.
Lol...thats probably the best way to be!!!
As someone who drives with no assists it bums me out so bad. I either have to conform to everyone’s driving style or just accept that in this update I won’t even remotely be competitive. I used to be in mid pack with a road car with 0 assists. Now, I can only stay within pack for as long as my tires hold up. I enjoy the realism, but these tires are cooking way too fast.
Don't get to hung up on what the tyres were doing this race, it was more of an anomaly than the rule....in saying that if your driving style is hard on the tyres then you might want to try a few things to help that....I have a few videos on tyre saving on the channel that might help.
Cheers Womble,.😊
Like deployed 👍
😎🎙🏎✅️
Thank you, very helpful analysis
Nice Vid Womble. Do you think this change will bring the RM and RH tyres in as a more competitive choice for strategies? There was always an issue previously where simply choosing the softs on a shorter race and pitting once was just the goto, rather than choosing the mediums and going for a no stop. Seemed unbalanced. Thoughts?
Cheers Neon....tbh I think this temp situation was more of an anomaly than anything else due to high track temps at Autopolis and the twisty nature of the track so I dont think will see this situation to often
One thing to note though is that the mediums last about 2.5 times as long as softs and not to far of hards so its definitely a strong tyre especially for longer races.
Nice test. The total fail from pd is not only do we not get a tyre temp hud but we also don't even get a (working) track or ambient temp hud. They're not very good at this thinking thing, are they?
Yeah its definitely frustrating knowing all that data is logged in real time track/air temp plus tyre temps and we see none of it on the hud.
Its a bit like that with the relative as well. We know they monitor gaps between all the cars and gaps from every car to leader but we only see a snippet of the info on our hud whereas the broadcast hud has it all!
Yep, why we don't have the colours or atleast the ⁰C on each tyre is so stupid. Wind is a factor and its always present on HUD ingame, so why not temps?
Yeah its pretty silly to log and monitor that info but not make it avaliable.
If you could've shown us your first lap tyre temp that would've been handy. Cos given @2:55 you show a supposed temp and say GTWS also run those (tyre) temps - but then you start the demo at lap 5 and the tyre temps are already 80+
I understand Fahrenheit to Celsius still converts that to approx 30c anyway, which would kinda matchup. But then that's forgetting the added "concertina" effect which i mentioned to Tidge last night while he was racing. But the first lap would've given some clarity to that I think.
Yeah unfortunately when doing commentry its very easy to slip up and say wrong word. I didn't even notice that one when doing a watchback.
You are right that I should have shown starting temps. Bit of an oversight from me tbh although I think i do mention somewhere in vid start temps and optimal temps for the tyres.
Ok next gtws race is 29 degrees Celsius again but this time it’s sunset. soft and medium tyres are mandatory this time. I just said I’d put this in to see if anyone wanted to attempt this combo as it’s 15 laps and both tyres are mandatory 👍
Thats interesting indeed. Could definitely play a part on Saturday. Il do a wee temp test later and see how the softs are handling it.
@@wombleleaderracing6455 temperatures should cool as the laps go on due to the time of day but will be interesting to see if people will do the usual 10 laps soft and 5 laps medium.
I think the strategy will be to start with the mediums and wait for the track to cool then switch to the softs as the softs will be in a better operating window 👍😀
So I think the info given by GT engine for Rd4 at Nurburgring is a mistake and has been copied over from previous round.
The GTWS race is using the 2045 setting from world circuits TT and track temp is between 10-14 degrees. In short there won't be any temperature related problems for this race on the softs. I did 5 laps on softs, temps were low 70s which is optimal and I had about 30% wear on the fronts. I think I could easily do a 4-6 medium 9-11 soft.
@@wombleleaderracing6455 ok thanks Wombleleader. Knew something was up with the tyres
Every 20% of tire wear costs you .200 per lap. (Find a well balanced track) or they could create their own testing track to lap. It doesn’t have to be perfect. It doesn’t even ever have to be released. It’s just for PD to test BOP & tire wear. Or just go with something like that that way then adjust accordingly. I mean you know how many A+ drivers would do that for free. Throw them some free gloves or something. Then randomly grab some tuner from GT Planet to test road cars.
There's an army of volunteer helpers out there for PD to use and help sort things but seems they don't use them. In saying that we don't really know how involved the WT drivers are, I do know they have a discord where they can communicate with PD developers so who knows!!
As for tyrewear model I dont mind the drop of rate I just think it should happen in a shorter range of the tread. I go something like this.
100-80% negligible drop off
80-50% gradual drop off 1 second
50-70% further drop of 6-7 tenths
70-90% get home tyre 2 sec of pace
90-95% critical pit now
100% effectively a puncture
With this you get a crossover with compounds and people are pitting because tyre loses pace rather than dies. Also if you try an ambitious undercut you have the get home tyre to finish with rather than completely red tyres.
G'day Womble.
Hey what weather was that Catalunya test on... also, would the track temps be implemented differently for say, Autopolis vs Barcelona? Because @2:55 you show a temp but imply its the tyre temp.
Which strangely enough you had higher tyre x at Spain... which would also be naturally hotter in Spain anyway too. Unless the weather was drastically different. Strange
Nice.Not playing gt7 atm but keeping up to date . ggs
Am I the only one that strongly dislikes this track? So many slow corners!
I'm not a huge fan of the full course but I do like the short version...the scenery is a bit bland though so can get a bit boring!!
AHHHH @9:41 you actually said it was Autopolis "track" temp. Which subsequently corrected what you said @2:55
Actually its AIR temperature, there is a surface temperature for the tracks but Womble decided not to include it... which the only line of it even being a thing is in Time Trial ranking boards. "Track temperature" as a reference point does not exist in GT7.
@@hsanrb
Yeah I wasn't being specific. Which I'm sure Womble wasn't either. I did actually mean the track as in the location. Hence why in my other comments I mentioned Catalunya being a naturally hotter venue.
Thanks for the heads-up
@@freedom_born This is less a case of specificity, and more another case of PD giving the player good information and hiding better information under the hood. Higher air temperatures should mean higher surface temperatures and that would impact tire wear rates... but one value is shown everywhere (sport races, lobbies, time trial pre-session 2:55) and the better value is only shown AFTER you get off the track.
PD wouldn't want you sitting on pit road for 2 minutes to qualify for an important GTWS race because the surface temperature is better for your car than if you held the throttle to get in line with everyone else now would they... 🤔
@@hsanrb
Lol I don't need an explanation mate. I know the complexity already. We all do. You're asking me what PD would do, as opposed to what they should do?!
C'mon man you're coming off passively aggressive, with your "Ackshually & NoW w0uLd ThEy".
Slow it down.
@@hsanrb
By the way bro. My comment referred to exactly 2:55 wherein Womble stated the temp shown is "tyre" temp.
That was the whole point of the comment ffs.
It always amazes me that people are surprised that PD screwed something up, a much bigger headline would be "I found something that PD does well".
I could be misinterpretting your comment but I don't see this as a screw up by PD....I quite like the fact the soft tyres have pace but are sensitive to certain conditions.
I dont see my name in the credits haha:D
Upd. Oh ok, i thought you are going to anaylze our race:(
Great science corner as usual. And of course car weight is definitely affecting tyre temps, as gt500 Honda was able to take this race easily on softs, while the modern nsx struggled on mediums after lap 8
@ntonD_GT yeah I am glad I picked honda this time. I was planning on the Porsche but honda is my favorite car brand so I went that way an was happy to see I could use either nsx
Sorry lol...il send you 1% of the revenue for appearance money...it will maybe stretch to a packet of crisps lol 😆
@@wombleleaderracing6455 deal done 🤝🤑
UPDATE IS DECENT.....UNTILL YOU DRIVE A VEHICLE WITH STOCK SUSPENSION LOL....WHAT A JOKE.....THEY NEED TO ANOTHER UPDATE ALREADY LOL
The past 2 updates. The stock suspension has been working. I always used custom before that. Tires more important then suspension these days
Il be honest first thing I do to every road car is race mod it so iv no idea what stock suspension feels like.
The more I play this game the less it feels like "the real driving simulator" 😕
I think you need to remember that tagline comes from 1996 when the average driving game was like ridge racer and burnout so Gran Turismo in comparison was like a real driving simulator!!
Thanks for the video. Thanks for the mention 👍😎