BEST Chainsaw MUFFLER MOD; No Guessing! DYNO PROVEN
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2024
- We have found the best muffler mod for this firewood build of this chainsaw to this point; We have dyno tested well over 20 different mods with differing outlets and differing cans (reduced volume V Full volume) to find the best combinations when considering EXHAUST TEMPERATURE, HEAD TEMPERATURE, AND HP/RPM.
We made charts and spreadsheets to compare the different mufflers in regard to CUT FACTOR, Temp, Cooling ability, and Horsepower and Torque output.
With the best Muffler Mod, we can continue the internal modifications to realized the most out each future modification.
IMPORTANT: Everything I do on this channel is for entertainment purposes and to satisfy my OWN curiosity and at my OWN risk. Under no circumstances will Hay Chaff and Sawdust CZcams Channel be responsible or liable if you decide to re-create or duplicate what I do. Hay Chaff and Sawdust assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Use this information at your own risk.
We can now measure heat in the engine while the engine is under a constant and specific (although variable) load. This new feature is allowing us explore how heat is effected by IGNITION TIMING, Muffler Mods, Tuned pipes, SINGLE RING VS TWO RING, Spark Plug ranges, etc... the possibilities are endless. As with anything, I'm sure that there will be growing pains and adjustments to be needed, but I believe we have most variables under control.
We also began to record exhaust temperatures along with the head temp and dyno results.
This will/should remove ANOTHER variable from the HP/TQ results on the dyno; I can get a higher HP reading by doing the dyno test while the saw's engine is cooler (as the saw gets warmer and warmer, it makes marginally less and less HP.. we can negate that by warming to a specific temp each time.
I think this is exciting and I am absolute that I have never seen this capability displayed on youtube or internet; I think we (you and I) are the first to have this breakthrough!
This is the continuation of the Stihl 026 Build which we are doing step-by-step.
Current Numbers 3rd Cyl
98 Exhaust
68.5 (137) Intake
120 Xfers (22 BD)
.018 Squish
We are currently testing Muffler Mods and have another round (or two) of muffler mods to test. After that , we will test (order has not been determined yet) Ignition Timing, Single Ring, (possibly/probably) Finger Ports Spark Plugs
Stay tuned for further modifications and results.
There is a playlist with the build to this point as well as text cuts and dyno results. Subscribe to continue to see the continuing build of this (and other) powersaw and documented progress results on the dynomometer.
Subscribe to continue to see Chainsaw porting and modifications, how we make Firewood, run the Sawmill, Bale Hay, tend to our Sheep, Hogs, Cattle, Peacocks, Chickens, Guineas, and Doggos. You will also see me making gadgets, tools, food preserving, and other stuff to make farmlife easier on this homestead.
I don't waste much of anything... especially resources! If there is a way to do something cheaper or easier, I'm searching for it.
Contact me in the comments and/or contact me on Facebook at Everystuff Farming and/or everystufffarming@gmail.com
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Thanks for spending your valuable time with us. - Zábava
Valuable data! You are doing something quite important! Exaust egt’s are very important! I love the concept of the cut factor! I see a tach on a chainsaw in the near future to verify cut rpm correction! Fantastic work ! I subscribed and can’t wait to see how all this rolls out!
@theironhorse6600 Thank you, sir! We just started with the EGTs on this video; I had a heck of a time getting a thermocouple to work with it, and I'm still not exactly sure what to think about them; hopefully a pattern will develop. Be careful down here in the comment section; many/most down here blame *YOU* for their chainsaw addiction. 😂😉
Wow, it’s great to see THE Iron Horse here, hope you stick around, it sure would be fascinating to hear your thoughts on some of the ideas that get kicked around in here. I second taking an RPM reeding in the cut for further tuning and build adjustments. Happy to hear you are interested in how the “cut factor” pans out, I also really what to know if it will let us, by numbers and graph, compare one saw to another as they would line out in the cut.
So great to see The Ironhorse in here in this great little community. He’s where this all began for me and then some. Much love for all you guys
You know your dedicated when you have a muffler on and off so many times you have to helicoil it lol. This is good stuff and it's not surprising that the big hole pipe cooled but it did get out horse powered
@happy8637 It probably didn't help that I was removing bolts while they were hotter than the hubs of Hades in an attempt to keep the saw heat saturated for a more-fair comparison.
I was a little surprised that the big hole didn't out-perform the pipe due to outlet size/less restriction; it also liked a large can V reduced volume can... that led me to develop a working-theory that will need some more testing before I put my foot in my mouth and look like a bigger moron than usual. Oh heck, we're among friends... MAYBE the reduce volume cans preferred front outlet and the full volume can preferred the side outlet of the big hole; I have a theory as to WHY; Do you have any thoughts?
@HayChaffandSawdust1 I guess certain types of saws like the racing styles you see with wide open box and really big holes are only trying to eliminate heat for the run. I believe the big hole side outlet should let the saw have a little more time for the exhaust charge to bounce back before escaping making the stove pipe effect on it. At least that's what I picture in my head with equal length of pipe inside and outside the can on like a 45 ish degree
@happy8637 I think you're right; the wide open exhaust can/does make good HP; Dyno Joe did a megaphone style that worked well and it looked like a funnel but I believe it was designed to use sonic waves like a tuned pipe. I don't care for the wide-opened exhaust for a work saw, but I *think* I may understand what's going on with them; I think I can duplicate the key factor while still having an exhaust which doesn't allow mice to fill the cylinder or muffler with hickory nuts and whatnot. Just a working theory though and an not quite ready to put my foot in my mouth on THAT theory.
Your testing amazes me. 25 years ago I’d of been in the middle of all of it, today I have a tough time trying to remember what righty tightly and lefty Lucy means. Ya keep it coming, I support ya completely. Ole Mountain Man
@georgefernandes3996 Getting about the same way; if I turn it and it twists-off, I go the other way for a while. If I twist it and it falls of and hits me in the noggin, I look for it, and try to remember WHICH way I was turning it when it fell off. Good to hear from ya, Ol Mountain Man!
Thank you for taking the time to do these tests. 👍
@230e4 You are ever so welcome!! I was apprehensive about so much data (or is pronounced "data"?) (you said it both ways in your head, didn't'cha??!! 😉😝) in a video; the group of people we have here are the BEST!!!
Cheatin'! AKA reading the rules thoroughly. Been cranking out some content brother! Love it!
I would love to see some data on Cerakote paint on the top of the piston and the piston skirts. There are specific ones for each. Nice to know if I'm wasting my time! Ha!
@gasaxecustomsaws Around here in my neck of the wood... where the toothbrush was invented, "reading" *IS* considered cheating and Math... that'll get ya burned at the stake for "witchcraft"! 😂😉
@gasaxecustomsaws Cerakote on pistons?! Don't think I knew about being able to do that? That's the same stuff they use on those evil black noise-pipes and whatnot ain't it??? It seems to make them more cuddly once they're no longer dark colored; I could see the healing benefits in chainsaws, too.
I'll serious-up for a moment; what are the claimed benefits of Cerakote on pistons; decreased wear, less friction, less heat?? I honestly never heard of it. I did order a popup from Duke's and it was grey on the skirt... same thing?
Again another great content video. And the hits keep on coming! Thanks for sharing.
@scottk8967 Thanks Scott, and you are very welcome; I'm sure glad you enjoyed it and glad you took a moment of your day to join-in down here where the REAL fun is!!
Saw the dyno and subbed straight away.
Absolutely great video. Have to go through the the videos to see what there is about all the muffler styles. Hopefully not too much on hay there as I personally hope to never touch the stuff again despite the fact that I have made controllers for round balers for about 20 years.
@Alan_Hans__ Good deal!! Thanks!! Glad you took part of your time to leave a comment and join-in with us; time is unforgiving and I'm proud that you have given us some of yours... enough sappy crap... glad you're here!! Forgot to answer question in earlier (or later??) comment of yours asking what kind of pipe; I didn't go back through the video, but I'm sure you would be taking about an "Ironhorse Pipe" which is named after the CZcams chainsaw fellow's channel who designed it eons ago and shared it with the world. It sure has its place and it pulls good... but it's as loud as a squealing hog with its head in bucket with yours!! Thanks again for joining-in!
That description of the noise level 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah ! . Another great video . And congrats on passing 1k subs.
@containerseightandnine9756 Thank you and Thank you!! It was a milestone in my mind and I'm elated it's been reached. Thanks again for joining-in!! Always enjoy to hear from ya!!
amazing test and results your really doing good with these tests
@diggindiggenit6540 Thanks Diggen!! Sure had fun learning what I did by doing them! Thanks!
Very cool! If you want to try a g372xp for your next saw I have a build that doesn't require any machining. I did open up the lower transfers but don't know that that is necessary.
@kraftzion I am dang sure not a saw builder; even the loggers around here don't have ported saws... most have never heard of them and are suspect of the whole idea. I have a 440 Mag to build and a 310 clamshell to redo (now that I've played with moving bearing pockets to adjust squish) which are my saws. The next saw which I aim to get will probably NEVER be a work saw in that it will probably spend life on the bench, dyno, and test cuts. A g372xp would make a good one, but I'm leaning toward something like a MS361 or such. I tend to play with Stihls due to dealer support locally, used saw availability, etc...; there're probably 50 Stihls per Husky in my area.... and I *LIKE* huskies!! I still wouldn't mind the recipe sometime, though! Thanks for being here!!!
This is definitely one I’ll watch a couple times. Driving the first time so I just saw a couple bits and pieces but you do a good job explaining what is going on with everything.
This experiment with temps comes at a good time for a lot of people who are just getting into the modified realm of air cooled two strokes and emphasizing how important it is to get that heat out of there when it comes to longevity of the saw.
Now, I kinda feel bad suggesting this next thing because you already put so much effort into this already but once again you’re the guy who can test this because you’re set up for it. Remember back into Tinman’s videos where he talked about coming from the motorcycle scene and they used to dimple all the fins for more surface area to transfer into the air. You can test to see if it makes any measurable difference. One up from that, drilled fins. I feel see you doing all that work in my head and I just feel awful. Lol. A guy has to be in the right mindset for that mundane level of grinding. Just know that even though I won’t be able to test it as comprehensively as you can but I’m still going to do the work too.
Should say “I feel bad”
The “bad” disappeared from my phone or my brain, one or the other
@FarmlessFarmer-xs1he i must have missed or don't remember the Tinman talking about dimpling and whatnot; I have noticed it on some chainsaws too. I like the science behind it and it HAS to work to some degree (pun intended). You'll have to remind me of this on the next build (thing an MS360 or Hucky of similar size and AM parts availability) to use as a test bed. This one will be a firewood saw; many channels have toyed with the idea of a test-bed saw, but I've never seen it come to fruition; I think it would great HERE and would allow people to send stuff that they know would bolt-on for testing of ideas.
I think notching of all the fins would be a fast effective way of greatly increasing surface area and it wouldn't take too much work. Love the idea... I had forgotten about THAT!
@@FarmlessFarmer-xs1heI must of missed that on the tinman as well, I really like the idea! I have seen where some people will bolt a copper cooling plate in, sandwiched between the cylinder and a pipe, to maintain airflow characteristics around the jug after removing the can, fin dimples or notches could help a lot too.
That’s a good idea too. I believe it was on one of his 268 or 272 saws. If I can find that video I’ll try to share it with you guys. Was probably 2-3 years back? More?
@FarmlessFarmer-xs1he I think I seen the saw more recently than that, but he didn't mention the cooling mods; that wasn't the subject matter of the video, but I saw it... 'least I think it was Tinman's video.
Hay Chaff... you are the man 👨 🙌... I hate to luv yah, but you are a irresistible force lol 😆 all the raw data 👍😎 🍺 EGT's and HP works for my needs
@z1berzerker Joe, that's part of my "charm". Along the lines of the Stockholm syndrome, I make people hate me SOOO much that their brain doesn't know how to process it and errantly processes THAT MUCH DISDAIN as TOLERANCE. 🤬🟰🤗
Digest the info and let me know if it give you an 💡or two!! it's giving me an idea or three. Other than editing-time, everyone here gets the same evidence as I obtain it; we can all read it differently; my drawback is, I have to talk about it as a knee jerk reaction and get to put my foot in my mouth. ...but everyone understands that I'm a hack and gives me plenty of forgiveness for my mistakes.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 You is a Fart Smeller, I mean Smart 🤓 Feller... it's like a concerto of OCD and ADHD smashed together ❤ I understand your accidental thinking. I am stuck out here with the ADD... they canceled my subscription to the High Definition 6 months ago 🤷 Can't find the PCV on a 2 stroke since 😶
@z1berzerker Yup, OCD, ADHD, Lysdexia, and PLUS the doc said I have A.D. something'er'nother... I dunno what else he said cause I seen a squirrel. Don't forget, Lysdexics are Teople Poo!!! 😂😉
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Well I just got the Troll-iosis. I ends up offending teople poo 💩 🙃 lol 😆
@FarmlessFarmer-xs1he 😂😝
👍👍
@camrynrhodes798 Thanks for joining-in!
Wow, there is a lot in this one, again. With others, I’m also watching a few times (that’s one way to get views up haha) not that it needs to be shorter or less info, there is just a lot to digest.
Very curious about the spark plugs, looking forward to that. Exhaust temp was less than I expected it would be, thank you for the readings.
For comparison, what cut factor did you end up with on the cut squish 390 clamshell? That saw was ripping! Watched it side by side with the one I built my son, and yours has so much more rpm in the cut! Going to have to open it back up and I’m excited about it. How does the current work on the 026 feel in the cut compared to the 390 framboss? I understand they are different size oranges, just curious, for establishing relative results for the cut factor, I like the idea and want it to work for quantifying “work” not just hp. Next step past cut factor would include expected feet of chain pulled in a quantity of time.
As always, thank you for taking the time to test and share.
@Archer_82 Working on the spark plug (and two other "free" mods) vid now; already did the 6 dyno runs and have the rough numbers; another gain on the ol' 026!! Makes me want really want to tear back into my ms310 and do the same stuff to it!
I haven't had the 026 in the wood in a while; the 390 is still here; I may try to get a SxS cutting video of it with the latest mods; it shouldn't keep up with the 390, but Hp-to-weight ratio should be better, I would think. CC-to-hp ratio would probably be better on the 026 also... but the 026 has better muffler and better porting. Feet of chain would be an easy addition to the spreadsheet; only two factors involved: pitch of chain and drive sprocket tooth-count. Hmmm Something to consider!!!
Cut factor will be easy to figure and neat to find out; will have to go to my other computer for that; on THAT note, I need to make ANOTHER spread sheet with Cut Factors of each saw as I'm done working on it; I can keep it in my Dear Abby book too. You're hitting on all cylinders today!!!!
@Archer_82 Cut factor on best 026 (B Box with .4sq in hole) was 46621; Bob's 029 was 47993. Latest (not to let the cat out of the bag too much) on the 026 (with the B box with too-big of an outet that made less HP) made 50840 cut factor; The dang thing may just outcut the 029!! Gunna have to go to the woods with these two!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1wow! I’m going to guess the mods were, as you stated would be coming soon, timing, one ring, and the plug. Have you tried the nylon mesh style filters? I have one and it seems to allow more airflow than the factory style.
Putting the cut factor in the build paper notes is a great idea, as is a graph with all builds moving forward! 025? Stock 660?
@Archer_82 Close! Three mods, but I never took the saw apart. You saw the cut factor, and these are going to be easy-to-do for most everyone; I was impressed with the gains that I had previously been neglecting.
I've actually been running the mesh air filter for a while and will go back sometime and do the dyno comparison; it was a little, but not too much; and, I didn't do them on the same day/same tune; the difference was well within the margin of error with weather differences. While I do use the weather correction factor, on this saw's dyno runs, I've had correction factors from 0.83 to 1.076; that's dang near 25% swing and I'm not THAT confident in the correction factor being within .05hp difference at both extremes; or with my ability to tune a saw within the difference on different weather conditions. I will do back to back tests soon; the heat readings are helping me get more consistent dyno results too as it's easier to get the saw to the approx same heat each time for a run and/or let it cool enough between runs.
I've never had my 660 on the dyno...or my 440. I've got over 5 hours of run-time on the dyno (30 seconds at a time or so); I didn't manually enter all of the data if I was just watching the numbers and tweaking, but I can/will go back and get the cut factors from finished saws and start a spreadsheet. On the other hand, I don't know how many complete saws I intend to build; I really enjoy taking ONE saw and twisting it every which way and see what rings out of it; as much as I like the saws, I am actually after the info and the patterns they may show themselves. Good stuff!!!
One thing that’s poking at me is will you get similar results with a larger displacement saw and the same tests
@jasentonguepowersaws4206 Good question/concern, but I think it will translate; of course the sizes will be different; hopefully, if I do enough and keep records well, a size Vs displacement pattern may develop. That's my hope. To say that a 4 sq in hole is best for other sized saws would NOT be correct... but I think a ratio will be found given some more testing.
It would be nice if you showed each muffler and each one's results and show which one is the best for people who dont want to watch the full 25 minutes
@larsonhomeinspection9932 I can understand people's need for instant gratification and unwillingness to "put in the time" to get something for free; I wasn't raised that way and tend to cater to the likeminded. Thanks for joining in!!
Another video I'll need to watch again to try and make sense of everything.
I'm still wanting the pipe to win out over the bark box. Did you notice much difference in sound between the two?
@Kevin.L_ I get it!! Sorry so dang much info stacked into one video; I even tried to shorten it but was unable... there was just so dang much info (that co-dependent on something else in the video), that I couldn't find a way to make it shorter and still have plenty of info for all y'all to digest to help make an informed-opinion as to the next step(s) to make the muffler even better. It has given me enough info to change my mind on some things I thought I knew... and I can apply to piped-cans too. I think the pipe has every ability to work over the bark box, and I have a theory as to why the bark box works so well. And, YES, the sound difference is pretty big; not sure I wouldn't take the pipe (in its previous length before it got too short) over the bark-box for a firewood saw. Noise is a major consideration as well as RPM range (cut factor); I think the pipe is a better balance for me and/or my dad.
Funny you should mention watching it again in an attempt to make sense; I was sitting at the table with my elbows on the table and my head in my hands when my bride asked me "what's wrong?"; I explained that I had SOOO much info/data and didn't know if I could ever find a way to make it presentable. I would appreciate thoughts on a way to make it better... the dyno results, the bar graph for temps, and the spread sheet for pipe/hole size V Hp/Cut Factor was the best I could come up with; if there's a suggestion, I would love to hear it. Once the info is gathered, plotting is the easy part... not sure if I'm plotting in an understandable way... I have the advantage that I have and took the info, so *I* know what it is; not sure if I'm relating it well enough to someone who was not standing there. Always appreciate criticism!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 It would be hard to shorten the video and still get all the info across. The discussion about all the muffler types and mods needed to be done. I pay pretty close attention and I still need the refresher on the dyno display numbers.
That's what I expected and wanted to hear about the noise. My 029 super has a wide open exhaust and it's just annoyingly loud, like I figure the BB would be. The pipe has a chance to tone down the crack some, and if it pushes the rpm higher then that's even better. Welding a pipe in is on my list but it doesn't get ran much.
At 20:33 the reduced vol BB showed a 46k cut factor, but after you reordered them it disappeared.
When you start showing the HP curves, your colors don't come across well to me. I have a hard time matching the curve to the legend. Hey, you wanted criticism!!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Figuring out how to show all that data is really hard. I had a hard time following your names for the different mufflers going from the start where you showed some of them to all the data at the end. There was one in your temp plots called 'can big hole' that seems interesting. I see it in some of the dyno power plots, but can't find it in your table of data. What could help is to do a section of the video where you show a picture of each muffler you tested one at a time, put the name in text on the screen, point at what you are changing, what the interesting part is about it, and then keep the same name for it through all your graphs. That would let people go back later and check out the details of each one after you show the data. Another additional possibility for graphs is called a radar graph. So for each muffler you could come up with a bunch of numbers like HP, cut factor, maybe an area under the HP/RPM curve number over an RPM range, max cylinder temp, max exhaust temp, exhaust temp rise during heat test, etc. Then each muffler would have a circular kind of shape on a radar plot and you compare the shapes to see which has the most area. It also makes it easier to show strengths and weaknesses of each design. You might have to scale some of the numbers so they fall in the same range (get everything between 0-1 for example). I'd also suggest trying more primary colors on your dyno charts. I know at least for me, I have a hard time telling the difference between some of the lines, but red, green, blue, black, yellow typically will stand out from each. For example purple and black can be tough to tell the difference. Also making the lines thicker can help people identify color. Lines on your plots were a nice width but in the legend they were thinner for some reason. Anyway, great video. That's a ton of work. Thanks for sharing.
@Kevin.L_ Good eye; I didn't notice it while recording nor while editing; it was one line about the screen 🤬 It showed the worst one at the bottom, but not the best one at the top. I also have a hard time with the legend and have not figured a way to make the colored line in the ledger any bigger/wider; I can change the font in the word and do make them bold; I've tried to make the words color coordinated, but it changes ALL of the legend. Joe's dyno legend is FAR easier to read than mine and I, for the life of me, can't seem to make it any better... yet. I might can add the word "red" or "Blue" prior to the saw's Hp. And yes, I want criticism... it's the only way I can get better; I can try to get all of the best evidence there is, but if it''s mishandled, it's not near as worthwhile. Thanks!!! The Bark Box is quieter and has far less crack than the Ironhorse pipe though; it's not a deal-killer, but the pipe is far milder. On the other hand, I think the pipe might be a little small and a bigger pipe might make it louder by-far. Wondering about two pipes of that size and length crossing and exiting opposite sides; I think it may get the needed flow without increasing noise too much?
@JohnSheerin Thanks so much for joining-in with us and the kind words!!! I love the suggestions!!! In hindsight, I sure did pump the pooch on not naming all of the lids the same. FYI, the "Can" was a stock inner portion of the muffler and the Red Vol or Reduce Volume is the "can" with a divider welded in it to reduce the volume of the can. The "lids" or outer of each muffler were the "big hole", the sniped pipe, and the B Box. I am faulty of taking notes for myself that are not readily known to people who just found the channel; I'm awful new at this and am have failed to drill it into my pea brain that THIS video might be the first one someone has seen. For instance, the "big hole" lid started out at .4", went to .5", then to .75" and lost power at .81"... I named it big hole in my head knowing there was no sense in going any bigger. That's all on me and I have a lot to learn in making better videos which are more digestible.
Differing names in differing graphs was a huge faux pas, too. I appreciate you pointing it out; sometimes I'm too close to my work to notice. I have and will continue to try to get wider lines on the legend portion; I've been unable so far; I'm self-taught on the spreadsheets within the past few months, so I may be missing something. Need to google it as I've done to find most of my other answers in trying to figure how to manipulate the spreadsheet(s); heck, to be honest, I've never even heard of a radar graph; I'm interested!
Thanks so much for the feedback; you speak as a person who has underlings that respect and work hard for him. Thanks you for the suggestions!
no Freeland ? I don't like click bait. if it happens again I'm done
@copperjacket00 Dunno what "Freeland" is? If you're serious about the accusation of click bait, I recommend clicking on those three little dots which are located off to the side; there's an option for youtube to not offer any more of my videos; it's a viable option to lots of people; sounds like it's just your cup of tea. Cheers
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Sorry my good man The comment was for a video right after I watched your video . I do NOT know how it got here ? you tube glitch . Since I'm here your video was cool and Muffler Mod.s are cool . Cheers
@@copperjacket00 Ahhh; I get it!! Thanks for clearing up and sorry for being a little snappy; in the heat baling hay all day dreaming of November 10th... That's as early as I can night hunt predators here!! Glad to have you stop in!!
Check your email inbox. 😉
@FarmlessFarmer-xs1he Will do; may be a few minutes; dad coming down for fish and homemade onion rings... just got the onion rings battered and took a minute to check this. Thanks for the heads-up as I don't check it too often!