Return Of The Inglenook Shunting Challenge... & It was Much Harder!
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- I took a fresh attempt at the Inglenook Shunting Challenge, and this one really was a head-scratcher!
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9:25 As a US railroad conductor I can tell you it’s happened. Me and the engineer were on a coal train waiting in a siding for trains to pass. When they did, they reported the switch was wobbly so track maintenance came out and replaced the whole switch. Problem was: we were stuck in the siding and could only sit and wait as they cut it out, brought in a new one, and welded it back in place.
haha really?! Glad to have accidentally brought some realism to the video with that then! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Holy moly, that sounds so inefficient lol
@@felixfelix9062 Even more inefficient if the switch collapses and the locomotives derail on top of it!
Well they do say there's a prototype for everything.
What would you do, If you had to go to the bathroom and all that happened? I could imagine having to holding it for that long!
Keep doing these types of videos, Sam. I quite enjoy this, and also your "Salvage or Scrap" series. Keep up the good work!
I sure will do! More Salvage or Scrap coming soon too! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam : “Ah finally, my train is ready to be delivered”
Yard Master : “Sam where’s the brake van? You can’t pull a train without a brake van”
Sam : “… wait, nooo.”
Yard Master : “Off you go, shunt a brake van”
Sam : *(screaming internally)*
Oh god don't say that... nightmares!! D:
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Simple. Engine just goes to the convenient siding where he left it before switching Inglenook. Pushes it to one of the not full sidings, pulls out the outgoing train, backs to couple on the brake van.
Yeah, Sam's got some explaining to do about this. I wondered about that brake van myself, where would you have your Tea and Scones at without a break van?
It would be fun to upscale it with a twin tender loco and eight coaches :D
And maybe use O gauge!
@@owendinostudios1200 Broad guage:)
@@methylatedspirit6810 yes! Just use live steam why not!
haha that'd be crazy... I'd need a bigger room ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That would be a better Idea, at least you'd have a place to sit and have some Tea and Scones at break time! 👍
And think of that this is maybe what real crews did that while shunting and they followed a timetable
I know... must have been horrible! Though presumably they wouldn't have been cramped into such tiny sidings?! I'd hope not anyway, for their sakes!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
If it happen that way, you'd have to camp out over night until that switch got repaired. All bet's would be off on that time table after that!
Yay! Where is the fun in just picking up wagons and placing them down? :-) With my layout on the way to being built, shunting a train together is one of the things I am looking forward to. It's a good mental challenge and adds play value, as long as you are in the right mood and have the time! Great fun. :-)
In theory, every 8 car Inglenook Sidings puzzle can be solved in 20 moves or less. This can be shown using a computer program that implements a certain method in graph theory. This has been done by Simon Blackburn, a professor of computer science in Londen, and I confirmed it with my own program. I've also written a browser program to find solutions, although not always the shortest one. It also animates the solution. However, trying to solve the puzzle without the computer's help can lead to solutions that are a lot longer than the theoretical minimum. Believe me, I know this from personal experience! Cheers from Wisconsin.
PS. I really like your shunter and wagons. Makes me wish I modelled in OO instead of HO.
Mom: "You should become a competitive chess player!"
Dad: "No, you should become an engine driver!"
Son/daughter: "Yes." **becomes a professional Inglenook shunter**
haha yep - bit of both! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A couple of alternative wagons for added interest:
Bolster wagons - must be shunted as a pair
Fuel tanker - cannot be next to the locomotive at any point during the shunt
Brake-failed vehicle - cannot be left on the 'main' siding on it's own
These are great, taking these ideas for my own inglenook!
At 15:00 Place 5 into the second siding instead of the empty. Then move 2 to the first siding, returning 3 and 4 to the third siding. Move 5 to the third siding. Move the empty in the first siding to the second, then return 1 and 2 to the first. Move the remaining numbered wagons (already in order) to the first siding.
Dear Sam We have discussed the 18,000 steam locomotives at the time of nationalisation in 1948 before. Here is another mind blowing statistic, during the pre-war period in the 1930’s the LMS locomotives ALONE used 9,600,000,000 gallons of water a year. Yes that is right nine thousand six hundred million gallons of water a year!
Dear Sam Taken from their accounts the LMS in the 1930’s used 5,500,000,000 tons of coal a year. Yes five thousand five hundred million tons a year! Kind of puts model railways into perspective and this was one of four!
Try it this way: put an uncoupling ramp at the entrance to each siding. Then number the wagons 1 to 8. Then draw 5 numbers from your mug, that being the order to martial the wagons into. You can only uncouple via the ramps. You are not allowed to touch the stock otherwise.
Good idea Dave - that might make life much easier... and much more fun!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A really good and famous switching layout built by John Allen was called the Timesaver. There where multiple scenarios one I know of was the Switchmans Nightmare. I don’t recall dimensions but a lot of the layout was tons of switches and a large area to move multiple things at once. And the complexity of the system was really cool to see. I’d build and incorporate something similar if I had space. Worth a look though!
Sorry for repeating myself, but after watching this one too, I think having 8 cards (each with a picture of one of the wagons on), give them a good shuffle, take five cards out the pack and lay them next to each other. Then rearrange the wagons to the same order as the cards. No bits of paper to faff around with or need to number the wagons. Getting cards with the wagon pictures on could be a slight pain, but not impossible. I’m going to try it, cards an all. I’ll let you know if it works, or if I’ve missed something.
I was playing something similar when my 6-year-old nephew came in. I explained what I was trying to do with the wagons. He looked at me for a moment as if I were stupid, and without thinking about it he took the wagons with his hands, and put them in the destination position. Then he went to play with his toys somewhere else. Bloody kid... :)
I have had the same! 😁
Lol, I started having flashbacks to a full sized Inglenook-esque challenge/nightmare I had years ago which entailed me and another bloke re-arranging Aviemore shed and yard with an 08 (him driving and me on the ground with the shunters pole). It took hours and we had several extra elements to make it more complicated such as a wagon with no draw hook on one end and a crane that could only be moved by itself. We were just about done, just a couple of moves and we'd be done, when the shed foreman came out of his office to ask if we could put 2 wagons that had been shoved out of the way up the head shunt and buried behind several other things could be put on 1 road, behind the crane...... Back to square one nearly! I must have walked miles up and down that yard switching points, coupling, uncoupling and getting handbrakes and chocks!
Despite my flashbacks, a very enjoyable video and one that's given me an idea for a games night some time. Keep up the good work. =)
stop lying
@@TheGameCamer360 lying? What part of this story do you find hard to believe?
As a former shunter for 34 years of my railway career it is quite appropriate to leave wagons over points. We did it all the time in the real railway.
Let it be said it takes a few years to become a good and efficient shunter.
Just because you model trains it does not mean you will make a good shunter.
Just a clue on the second attempt you should have taken the first 2 un-required wagons off road 2 and put them to road 3 to get them out of the way. You would have found it would have been smooth sailing or should I say shunting from there.
Keep practicing Sam. Good video though
Should've used the 1361!
Imagine the pain
haha I don't want to even imagine that! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains well if you got annoyed you could just through the 1361 across the room and get a better engine.-Das Mann
Maybe get the 1361 run over by a real train better yet the real 1361
The rules of the Inglenook puzzle state that the No 1 wagon should be directly behind the locomotive, and No 5 should be at the end of the train, the reverse of how you did it.
Sam keep doing these kind of videos they are a great variety keeping the ideas entertaining as these are.
I've built myself an Inglenook in N Scale. Hint: a desired first set of moves is to get car 1 to the back end of a rake of three cars.
More of these please Sam. If you watch this back again you could have solved it in half the time.
Mate of mine with two young boys 8 and 6yrs old has a an Inglewood set up with Thomas loco ,stock and scenery.The kids can’t stop playing it.
what you shouldve done sam at 14:53 in the video when you drop wagon 1 in the right area is take wagon 5 and couple it to wagon 4 and that wouldve completed the puzzle and wouldve been in the rules of the puzzle because at no point do you uncouple the loco leaving more than the allowed number of wagons in a siding
I built one of these during first lockdown. Electro frog points and magnetic auto uncoupling (using cheap magnets hidden under the track and staples glued to the couplings), mean more or less “hands-free’ (ish) operation. Hornby 0-6-0 Peckett works well.
I really like how you do the intro and as a member, I loved seeing the outtakes. My favourite one was when you meant to say: “…they were all scrapped and had no survivors.” But you said: “…they were all scrapped and had no subscribers. Uh, oh wait heh heh. Yes the garrat had a CZcams channel and it had no subscribers. That made me genuinely laugh out loud.
Keep making great content. 🚂🚂😊😋😃😀😄😁🚝🚄🚇🚊🚉
Do I enjoy these? Sir, it is the very progress of science and industry that you investigate, and such things are not merely for the enjoyment of benefit for queen and country, but the duty of every able-bodied person to engage in the endeavour and enterprise thereof. Much as Messers. Clarkson, Hammond, and May explored the Arctic, the Kalahari, and the Source of the Nile, so too must Sam join their ranks in the relentless pursuit of edification. Sir, I enjoy these in that I can now rest easy that a good man has done his duty and provided sound legacy as his bequest to the world. Carry on, O Sam, and do not desist from your investigations, not one whit!
According to the instruction that I downloaded it said the trucks have to be in the order that they are drawn, therefore number one should have been next to the loco. Good fun though. Martin.
That's right Martin - they were in that order though, the instructions didn't say anything about the locomotive position ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That did my head in! I was yelling at the screen trying to tell you that you're doing it the hard way!!
haha sorry!! I did say I was terrible at this! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam you're so smart. You don't need silent pondering, straight up lying to us lol. I appreciate your humbleness.
haha you're very kind!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I do like this idea. But to make it even more challenging you need to add a brake van into the mix which must be attached at the end of the train.
No more challenging. It's just a wagon with a number like all the others. It could be a tennis ball. The actual wagon is of complete irrelevance, if anything your suggestion would surely make it easier
Hello Sam, could we have a video of the 3-2-2 variant of the inglenook challenge? Would love to see if the space saving element is worth the lack of variants in shunting.
I recently learned that in the early days of railroads, some trains would decouple the cars from a moving train so that they could drop them off at a station without having to stop the train. This, I assume, is why the cars have to be placed in a specific order.
Even with the much more common goods train serving several goods sidings at different points on the journey it is easier if the wagons are grouped into the order they are dropped off along the line.
In the UK passenger coaches dropped off at speed lasted from ,1858 to 1960. Called slip coaches they needed to be the last cars on the train and have a guard with control of the brakes to stop them in the station and needed windows on the coach ends so the guard in control could see where he was going for safety.
A CZcams search for slip coach will show a few videos with more detail.
In North America there is a move, called a Dutch drop, used in the process of spotting a freight car[wagon] for unloading/loading in a siding accessed by facing-point switch; as with a slip coach they would be part of the freight train trailing the engine. It requires a good degree of timing and coordination between all crew members.
Arriving at the siding the car(located immediately behind the engine) is uncoupled from the train; one brakeman climbs on the car, the other takes position between engine and car to make an uncoupling , the conductor stands ready at the switch stand to throw the points; engine and car get a roll on; on signal from brakeman engine slows momentarily, creating the slack needed for the cars to be uncoupled, then accelerates as rapidly as possible away from the loosed car. If all is executed properly the conductor will be able to throw the switch immediately the engine is clear of it and before the car arrives to roll into the siding and be brought to a halt by the brakeman riding on it. If this isn't where it needs to be, the engine will finish the job. What can possibly go wrong!? This manoeuvre will not be mentioned, positively that is, in any official documentation!
That should have been worded '...there WAS a move...', the days of 5-man train crews being long gone.
@@rayshowsay1749 a search on CZcams for Darling Harbour Steam should show some Australian shunting methods nearly as extreme, with uncoupled wagons loose shunted after being given a shove by the near hundred year old steam shunters. Lasted into the seventies near the centre of Sydney but longer when diesesl used.
You do know that you can make the task of obtaining random numbers easier - some scientific calculators include a "Random" feature, that allows you to set a range, and then selects a random number for you. I have one that can do just that!
You've got me inspired now, Sam. I was thinking of adding a small industrial scene to my layout, and guess what arrangement of sidings I've now decided to have?! That'll keep me busy for hours. Great video as always. Thanks. Lionel.
Add two of these challenge's yards to your layout, do one, then move the completed 1 through 5 train to the other, then do the challenge on the other yard
Inglenook sidings is back, baby!
All seriousness though, this looks so amazing. Doing this with Thomas or Percy would be funny! Hehehehe! Anyway, Nice video Sam! You should start a series showcasing cool model railway games like this!
These are great Sam. Really enjoy the combination of puzzle and modelling. I think that your idea of a “love” version would be brilliant. Keep it up!
Sam its enjoyable to see you having fun, I will look forward to doing the same.
Hi Sam Great that you decided to do more we love these keep going!
Thanks a lot Leroy - glad you enjoyed it! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The issue with the first point was the rail turning off to the frog was out of alignment at the joint between it and the switch-blades. this was causing the flange to catch and hop off. check if either the blades or the rail has rotated slightly. probably doesn't need smashing. However though, if it's stubborn to work, then... :P Great vid, inglenooks are fun
This is like tiny TrackZ you have to shout trucks in the order which shows like how you’re doing except without numbers and a paper to show you.
After watching your first video, I tried doing this Inglenook Shunting Challenge myself. I used freight cars that clearly written numbers on the side (and made sure none were duplicates), wrote their numbers on strips of paper, and laid out the order I drew next to the main exit line. That way I don't have to do a strange numbering system like you did.
Do four challenges, one for each of the big four, but change the loco each time to see which is the luckiest.
Really enjoyed this, cheers. As a software engineer I also think this would make a great optimization problem to solve to find the optimal moves for each starting and finishing order combination.
Hi Sam,really enjoy your channel.....I play the inglenook frequently on my n gauge layout....great fun because need to cross main lines to assemble new train so have to intersperse with some main line running.
I think that first set of numbers were more difficult than you thought, because you would not have been able to keep 3,4,5 together on the initial moves. I worked out how to do it in seven moves, but I had to write it down. No way I could have done it that quickly just in my head.
To be more efficient you should aim to not fill all of your sidings where possible, you have 3 sidings, on the two shorter ones if they each store 2 wagons you have all 3 sidings to rearrange the order. For example at 13:38 you put 4 with 2 and 3 but that blocks the siding making it difficult to rearrange for 1. If you inste ad used it to temporarily store 1 then you would have found it much easier to position 1 where you wanted it
May try a mega inglenook challenge. In these you are permitted to use a larger locomotive but must be a tank engine or diesel equivalent and you can have larger rolling stock items such as the railguns and larger vans. Same principles as inglenook but the sidings are bigger to accommodate the larger rolling stock. Another idea would be to use an eight sided dice that way it's completely random for wagon selection.
Oh wow! That sounds horrific... I can see there being loads of derailing with stuff like that! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Well actually it wouldn't be because you would switch out the small points for the express points to make it it easier to use larger rolling stock
I would love to see some more of this kind of video.
Fantastic love this
The options are endless
Sleepy Sam
We've all heard of sleepwalking. Sam was very sleepy one day. A thunderstorm had kept him awake all night, and he insisted he needed to play with trains.
The young man had eaten well, his glass of water was supposed to have woken him up a bit more. The bathroom had been left in a soggy state. Ever tried climbing the ladder while half asleep? I wouldn't dare, but somehow Sam managed to. He couldn't stop himself yawning, and his eyelids were heavy with sleep.
"Don't play with trains," a voice inside his head advised. "You could have a nasty accident."
"Says.... you," yawned Sam. "I.... can.... manage." It would have been better if he had listened. Too late now. Sam almost fell asleep standing up.
"Wake up, Sam!" whistled a few steamies. "Watch what you're doing!" Now I don't know if Sam snores when asleep in bed, but....
"Zzzz!" he snored, kneeling over the gaugemaster controller. His fingers strayed towards a wall socket, to turn on the controller. Not a good idea in his sleepy condition. Disaster struck.
"AAH!" screamed Sam, jolted awake by the electric shock flowing through his fingers. Luckily, his fingers were only singed at the tips. Wide awake at last, he played with trains properly. Never try playing with trains while feeling sleepy. You could get a nasty shock.
You're right with this story Kelly - I'm known for my sleepwalking - I was once found down a country lane, asleep, at 6am in the morning!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Your left to right order of 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 -1 is screwing with my head, because my brain works Left-to-Right: 1 -2 - 3 - 4 - 5. That in itself puzzled me. My brain kept stopping me and saying, "It's wrong; It's wrong." As was your numbering of the cars beginning at the bottom track and going upward.
Can we just appreciate the fact this guy replies too all the comments?
haha I'm doing my best! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Enjoyed this one Sam! Thinking this would make a great basis for a micro layout of its own. The live stream would be an interesting way to go with so many conflicting instructions!
to uncouple the trucks in my yard, i use a 3D printed shunters pole and not a glue stick thingy
I really enjoyed this! Please do more!
Thanks so much J! :D
The Inglenook Challenge isn't about actually solving the puzzle, it is solving the puzzle in the least number of moves. You play against others using the same combination of wagons.
love the shunting challenge make more please
Yes it's back!! I love this. I actually tried this with my goods yard. Great video. I definitely want more!!!!!
Sam I like this,I mean you get to do a lot of switching and sorting out cars like in a rail yard.
Great. I would love to see more of these 👍👍. My own favourite layout is an Inglenook industrial & dockside layout. 🥂Cheers.
you should get a Bachmann E7. They are actually the same quality as the GG1, and they come in Pennsy colors!
I never realised that shunting could be so complicated and a test of logic
Me neither... this challenge has taught me that! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
When you do it for real, you have a shunting pole and have to swing the three link coupling over the hook of the opposite wagon and we would pin a brake down and uncouple while your mate shoved the wagon into its siding, you soon learn to do it right as it saves you a lot of walking up and down a line of wagons 😂 ex Scunthorpe Steelworks shunter
I'd love to see a rail museum do a real life version
Oh wow wouldn't that be amazing?!? :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The first shunting challenge went pretty well.
If you do another shunting challenge I suggest you use an LNER J50 or an GNR N2.
Great idea Sean - I'd love to try this with other engines! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Your glue spreader is very lovely 👍
Great video mate! Shunting seems complicated lol. I went to hattons yesterday and it's completely different! I bought 2 semi detached cottages and a car for my scenery
Thanks a lot Liam - it is a bit! Oh very nice - hope those look nice for you! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains thanks mate! The car is from around 10 years after the time period I'm modeling, but it's one of my favourite cars so I bought it anyway and it still looks the part
Hi Sam, Love your desire to be challenged and re-doing the numbers. Maybe there should be a lime limit; now that would be a challenge eh!!!! I was with you all the way. Can't believe it's 4 in the morning . . . but I am gripped !!! Well done
Cracking job Sam, Inglenook rocks. 67,000 different combinations and still no app on play store, now there's an opportunity.
By the way the reason you got derailed was because the points weren't flat. Plastic frogs suck.
I forgot to mention in my previous comment that the 20 move maximum I mentioned is for the version of the puzzle where the final position of all 8 wagons is specified for the final state. If you allow the wagons 6 through 8 to be in any order on the short siding this maximum is probably less.
I’d like to see a re-attempt on the same puzzle, see if you can do it in less moves or more efficiently somehow
The original set-up with 4, 5 & 6 right next to each other looked really difficult, if not impossible. You should set it up again & actually give it a go!
haha really?! Maybe you're right! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Absolutely love these videos! Keep them up Sam!
ahhh, yesss!
Yep! it's time! xD
I love this challenge. So long as it is fun, continue with future challenges.
Great work Sam! You’re pretty good at this challenge! I’d love to see it on some livestreams!
The second move should have been to move 2 empty trucks from siding C and then connect 2 & 3 up to 1 on siding C
Thanks for the idea Peter... obviously I'm not very tactical! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice work.
If you should attempt it with extended track and double the wagons.
Another hugely entertaining video, it was much more of a challenge this time. Well done 👍🏻
Sam: let's pull 3 and 2 safely onto the siding D
8:19
*THE RETURN* Starring: Bluebell, Siding, and the Trucks
This one was fun to watch! If only I had rolling stock small enough to do this.
Right I've been wanting to do this and I just have too large of Rolling Stock.
Thank you! I guess you could do this with large rolling stock too! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
So, Sam, I’m pretty new to model railways and your channel… were you planning on doing more of these as you said? It was really great to watch and a peak into the non review side to the channel.. keep up the great work.😊
This type of videos are very interesting and I really enjoy watching them keep up the good work and I love to see more in the future
Great to hear that David - thanks very much!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great show again, I would have done it differently at 14:12 though. pick up 5 and put into C. Pick up 4-3-2 and put into B. Pick up 1 and unnumbered in B and take to D. Leave unnumbered in D and take 1-2-3-4 back to B. Pick up 5 in C. add to 1-2-3-4- in B finished. But hey I am cheating, I am just watching you do it. As I said great entertainment, even for those of us only watching.
I would just like any sort of live stream! I didn't know you did them, so I would love to see one!
I love a good shunting layout
Me too!! :D
I like yer stuff Sam!!! You're a good kid, and I enjoy your enthusiasm!!!!!!!!!!
need to 3D print yourself an uncoupling tool with a wider "spade" and a 90 degree handle that points up
I would have moved the first two wagons away from 1 and put then into siding 5, then take 2 & 3 and connect them to 1 so you would have 321 together in the right order. Yes do more of these challenges.
That was fun. Since I've no layout at the moment I think I might set Inglenook up on a pièce of 2×4 styrofoam insulation board and have a go. With my ancient locos it'll be Peco electrofrog points, and because I'm a lazy git some carefully placed uncoupling ramps. It'll be a good chance to test a few building and scenery ideas too. An opportunity to get myself back into layout building and prepare for the "magnum opus" I'm planning for retirement in 5 or 6 years time. Hmmm 🤔...
Hi Sam yes we enjoy these videos!!! Keep the Inglenooks coming
I first assigned numbers to the cars, then used a pair of dice for the positions. This game is fun until it isn't!
Real or model form i love shunting, honestly i could spend hours playing around with my little shunters doing this 😂
That was a lot of fun to watch and, by the look of it, to do too. Definitely would like to see more such challenges, and particularly the one you rejected at the start! It looked easier, but was it? I'd like to know.
This one was more difficult, but how efficient your solution was is anyone's guess. I saw a way for you to get wagons 4 and 5 in the correct order early on, but whether that would have hindered you later, I couldn't tell. I also would have left the Spears wagon in siding c before collecting 4 and 5 but keeping it coupled to the loco until the end did no harm; I guess I just like everything to be in place when the challenge (in terms of the wagons) is complete. YMMV. Either way, good stuff.
I remember doing something like this at a model train show thing. It was so fun.
Sam @ 13:20 you were almost done should of added 5-4, picked up 1 and blank, dropped blank put 1 back, collect 2&3 and shunted to 1, Done .
Try doing the shunting puzzle with the Heljan 1361! It will be a real challenge then.
haha that would be hellish! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)