Love the new studio setup 👌 Nice video, interesting stuff to learn and it is so cool that you got to meet them! I'd be interested in seeing videos from the visit. I had kinda picked up on the VG10 market issue when looking into steels in the past. It's fun to dig into the process and composition and characteristics of different steels every now and then, would be neat to talk about that in a video, if you were interested in it.
Interesting and informative video, very educational. I thought you did a great job of taking the high road, not throwing any companies under the bus, and just providing the facts so that people can draw their own conclusions. Very tactfully done.
In the USA, just return a product that doesn't have a country of origin. It is illegal not to have a country of origin label and can come with $100k fine for EACH infringement. Also, report them :)
there ARE some "better" steels for certain types of knives. But WHO makes the steel and WHO makes the knife are 10 times more important. And EVERY steel has benefits AND detriments. You do NOT want to use the same style steel for cutting hard vegies as you do for meat and especially not for sashihi. Thre is NOT "best" steel, nor even a "better" steel for all tasks, and especially for all users. people without discipline are actually LESS likely to do well with a certain type steel than an experienced person. Just like it is NOT a good idea to start a new driver out on a ferrari. It harms their skill set, not help it.
REALLY interesting stuff, Ryky! Would love to see more videos with knowledge you've attained that us commoners might otherwise never know. 😋 What do you think of asymmetrical bevels? Is a 70/30 (or 90/10) more or less effective than a 50/50 and why? Since I don't use it much anymore, I'm thinking about making my Tojiro DP asymmetrical, but want to have some good reasons before doing so. 🤙🏼
Been waiting for this one and was not disappointed. Another great video. I always suspected VG-Max was essentially rebranded VG-10. It makes sense why they did it now.
Hi! Do you or anyone else have any experience with ZDP - 189? It should have a really good HRC but for me it doesn't seem to retain the sharpnes as long as one would expect.
There are some knives made in Japan not stamped "Made in Japan". When I purchased a Takamura in Hakone I was told that some knives aren't stamped with Made in Japan because of distribution and contract reasons.
Really interesting video. Sucks how the market got so saturated, but I'm happy they found out a way to set themselves apart from the knockoffs. One of my greatest fears in buying these pricey knives is that there are so many fakes. And I'm one hella unlucky person, so I'm sure to get a phony. Thanks again for the info!
I would be interested in a video concerning the difference between white and blue japanese steel #2. White can get a little bit sharper and the blue one is more durable. But how big is the difference. That would interest me - especially because I bought one of the last Ryky Blue #2 Gyuto 240 and want to treat this beautiful knife right the way I should?
Zwilling's Fc61 (fine carbide 61rhc) is changes depending on knife. Miyabi Kazen and Morimoto Fusion are VG10, where the Kramer stainless steel essential is a 13c27. For some reason they just don't want to promote the steel types. Another example is the Miyabi Black series. Mc66 is ZDP189.
I really like the in depth videos as well. I would mind hearing your thoughts on carbon steel in general and perhaps the different Japanese steels, blue and white paper steels.
*I worked as a materials engineer for 5 years. Theoretically all steel/iron has to have a chain of custody back to the point of origin. The point of origin is the mill - and all batches (they're called "heats") must include a Mill Test Report. Included on that report is the chemical composition analysis and the country of origin. After the steel leaves the mill it can go through several processing steps before the end product actually makes it to a consumer. It's common for each step of the process to be done by several third parties; however the Bill of Lading that's required to be included with steel deliveries is supposed to identify the heat number throughout the processing.* The asterisk is because I'm not sure how much effort it would take to get that information within the knife industry, and proprietary information may be an obstacle. I'm not sure anyone would want to put in that level of effort, but I'm pretty confident you could at least figure out the country of origin if you're persistent enough.
I'm not a very good cook, nor do I have very good knife skills, but I do cook at home often, and I do enjoy learning about cutlery and cookware. I'm also smart enough to know that just because I have learned more about high end knives, and can appreciate their beauty, that doesn't mean I should buy one of the better, more expensive ones, since my cooking and knife skills do not warrant the purchase. For now I'm sticking with knives that are appropriate for my budget and skill level, but that doesn't mean I can't research, understand and appreciate the good stuff. Thank you for your time and effort.
How do you categorize Dalstrong knives? They would seem to be in the category you are describing as a knife made in China using Japanese steel. Not sure if they identify themselves as a Chinese company or not.
Nice video mate, good work, what knife do you recomend me to buy, I'm a chef so I'll use it almost everyday for long time, I'm looking for a Chef knife, hard steel, old school french style or japanese, I already have a wusthof and I want something for more delicates works, something between 150-350$, and also what Sharpening Stones do yo recomend me to strat with, I already have a 400/1000 but is not a rlly good quality, and I want a good set to take care of my new knife. Cheers mate and continue with your videos rlly great work.
Love your channel Ryky ! I was hoping you would do a short segment on maintaining the wooden handle on certain knives, particularly Japanese. Recently bought Miyabi Birchwood and Takefu Village artisan, and want to ensure the beautiful wooden handles are taken care of as much as the blade. Also applies somewhat to my Shun's, but as these have more of a laquered finish, not as critical. Best way to protect the "raw wood" finish. Would imagine it would be much the same care as for your cutting boards ?
I have been waiting for this video, I just got a Shun Classic Santoku for myself, and a Paring knife for a mate for his birthday, he gave me the biggest bro hug, he's in love with it and said it'll be an heirloom. but wow these knives are beautiful and razor sharp, I'd only ever used Victorinox in the past, this is a whole other level! *HINT* I could happily buy a Shun Chef knife :) I'll even do a review too
Coming from the pocketknife world of folders and fixed blades, I wonder why there’s so much buzz around VG10 when many of the high end pocketknives have sailed far beyond vg10 (which is now considered an “old super steel”) are using s45vn, s90v, or some high end carbon steels like cpm3v, etc, which seem to have better edge retention and toughness properties than vg10. Can anyone explain? Sorry for my naïveté.
I bought three types of knives recently. I didn’t know what type I’d like. When I get up I’ll check the brands and where they were made. The chefs knife was great! It is thin and light. The pairing knife is great. The “chopping” knife is a little thick and everything sticks to it.
Have you been following the development of wootz in recent years, the difference between regular steel and wootz was only something like .8 percent inclusion of vanadium in the smelting process, thats a tiny percentage which gave the wootz steel legendary status across the globe at a time when there wasn't even internet. Don't be fooled into thinking a small percentage makes no difference. In metallurgical terms it's giant. I'm still interested in the dollar knives too btw. Fingers kinda crossed. Although, I am considering selling my shuns and Kai's to pick up one of the zdp189 black blades, do you have any thoughts on choosing either a bunka or gyuto for someone that usually uses a kai santoku and shun carving knife, I have the kai 5" paring and bread knife too but I will have to sell them all, these have been my primary kitchen blades? I already know how tough zdp can be to sharpen, so would just like your thoughts on the knife choice in general, I am leaning towards gyuto because it's a tad cheaper but a bit longer than the bunka, and the bunka is I think about the same as my santoku, but the gyuto only a few mm longer than the shun carving. In theory it's choosing to pick something to match what I would pick of the two I already have but thats actually not as easy as I thought given that I will only have that one blade for a while going forwards.
Hi experts , I got a Takahara (a rebrand from another brand) it says kumadori on the outside and inside it says blue #2 210mm gyuto but i don’t see it says make in Japan. Anyone knows? Thanks
Hi Ricky and interesting talk on VG steels I have a question if a knife is described as being made with Japanese stainless steel and a Rockwell of 53 what steel would it be most likely be made from .Regards Dena from Oz
SIMILAR..... hand forged VG10 will feel much more substantial and hold a better edge than AUS10. factory forged VG10 will feel ever slightly denser, but generally, vg10 will outperform AUS10 in edge retention and feedback
they are very good, particularely if you are a professionnal chef imo because the handle is steel so more resistant than wood and the steel is a bit softer than your usual japanse chef knife which is good because if you drop it, less chance of snapping the blade (same with the edge, i'd rather a bent edge than a chipped edge while i'm working because i can just do a few passes on my steel if the edge is just bent.
@@rakshas1340 Global's CROMOVA 18 steel is hardened to 56-58 HRC. It has a huge amount of chromium that makes it very rust resistant at the expense of edge retention and sharpness. I still have my Global G2 that I purchased in 1996 when I was a student. It takes a reasonable edge and retains it reasonably well. But due to the relative softness of the CROMOVA you will not get a full on japanese knife performance. They are decent knives though. You need to understand what your main priority is and the think about the downsides that you prepared to live with.
RE: FC61 steel, based on the sparse metallurgical info mentioned in the America's Test Kitchen carbon steel knife vid (Kramer vs Victorinox) and that FC means "fine carbide," my guess is it uses a very similar if not the same process in making the steel, BUT of course with a modification to the alloy composition that allows for it to not crumble when they heat- and cryo-treat the blade to a higher hardness rating.
VG-10 is one of my favorite stainless steels. Probably because of the sheer value you get out of it for the money if the steel is well-treated. I guess oversaturation is somewhat responsible for the low prices but, at the same time as you said, its reputation is not so good now because of the many bad "VG-10" knives. Having had one of those Chinese knives myself to see what it was like, there is a huge difference between one of those and...say, a Yoshihiro. The Chinese santoku was incredibly thick, like stupidly beefy, and weighed almost 2x as much as my Yoshihiro nakiri due to the heavy G10 handle (advertised as "light"). There was nearly no distal taper to speak of, the knife face down to the blade road had a very subtle and gentle slope but it was almost like the maker ran out of blade road before getting to the edge, so there was a very sudden shoulder that established the edge bevel. The spine was almost 4mm thick, so you can imagine it wedged like hell. There was also barely enough knuckle clearance, you needed to pinch or else your knuckles would cause you to start getting accordion cuts in your green onions when cutting with the heel. The steel was actually not too bad because it was not hard to sharpen and it could hold an edge, but it would require so much work to turn it into a decent performer that it would not be worth the price. It was like a cleaver that got mushed into a "santoku" shape and the whole thing felt odd, almost hardened plasticine, despite it feeling sturdy. Just a big ol' metal hunk with a much bigger focus on polish and F&F without any thought put into usability and cutting ability. It just looks all shiny but if any amateur started using this knife and then picked up a Konosuke or something, no sane person would choose this knife. My Yoshihiro nakiri was my first VG-10 knife and one of the ones I still reach for first despite it being almost like a beater knife to me. Ol' reliable. The heat treat is excellent. Personally, I have seen chipping issues with many Shuns, which is why I didn't get one. Quite thin behind the edge but no chipping issues whatsoever even though I do things I shouldn't, like mash garlic and ginger with the flat (possibly bending the edge whenever I do so), sharpens easily despite the fact that it doesn't readily take a noticeable conventional burr. Since Shun and Yoshihiro are hardened to apparently similar levels, I am not sure what causes the chippiness issues I saw in earlier Shuns. In any case, I would choose my beater nakiri over a Shun due to the dramatically lighter weight. Simple triple-riveted wooden scale handle is preferable to me over the heavy synthetic material in the Shun handle. I do find it a little sad that VG-10 has such a bad reputation among many circles because of poor examples produced by some careless makers. When well-treated, VG-10 makes an incredible knife material, especially for the typically low cost. TojiroDP knives are a good example. I have a bad VG-10 knife myself, a Japanese-made Ikeuti En single-beveled funayuki/petty. The edge is incredibly frail and the blade is even a little curved. I got it for $15 on clearance on the Japan woodworker site so I didn't expect anything breathtaking but the thing is nearly unusable, worse than any Chinese knife. It comes with a bright orange grippy cover over the wa handle. It chips like a stale saltine on anything no matter how gently I sharpen, even on a hinoki board and even if I put a microbevel on it, and has stayed this way through about 10 sharpenings. It chips soon after sharpening to matter what I cut--bananas, salami, green onions, peppers, you name it. It will probably chip if you look at it wrong. It also steers in a slightly different way than a properly made straight single-bevel. So it is useless except for cutting small, soft ingredients. I use this one for sharpening practice and have been trying to gradually work on it to make it usable. I really don't know how it made it past QC unless some first-year apprentice was responsible for this monstrosity.
So that's why knivesandtools changed their Eden knife series to aus10 all of a sudden. Now I'm not sure if what I got is actual vg10,they feel so different compared to my tojiro dp3. Good thing I'm going for a white nr2 from sakai takayuki or sakai kikumori (still need to hold both side by side to make the final choice)
Hi there, Ryki, Since you aquired the katana and announced that you were going to learn to sharpen it I have not seen a video from you addressing the technique to sharpen a sword. I practice Pekitit Tirsia Kali and own some knives and a Ginunting (20’’ blade) and I would really appreciate if you could showe us the way to sharpen that kind of blade using whetstones. The blade is too long for the width of the stones and I do not want to damage the blade. It would be much appreciated. Love your channel and the passion you convey -even when you look tired. Thank you in advance!
Fc61 steel is sanvick 13c26 steel out of Sweden that henckels renamed to fc61. A really good stainless steel. It's suppose to be very similar to aebl steel
The brilliance of this move is that Zwilling can buy 13c26 *or* AEB-L *or* whatever local clone they like. FC61 is whatever Zwilling wants it to be. (Bohler and Sandvik have local inventory, so I doubt there's much need to shift suppliers, but I'm sure it's a handy bargaining chip for pricing orders.) And nobody can copy the branding the way they could if Zwilling advertised "Swedish Razor Steel."
According to the Knife Steel Composition app: FC61 (FC-61) is a Henkles rebrand name for Sandvik 13C26 (Sweden) C: 0.68 CR: 13.00 Mn: 0.70 P: 0.025 S: 0.010 Si: 0.40
I'm a fan of BD1N. I can't tell the difference between sharpening it and VG-10, even though it's a couple Rockwells harder. I'm not the best to advise on edge retention, as I strop my knives every few uses. I don't have any experience with SG2, but if I upgrade my VG-10 I'd love to try SG2. Have heard great things about it.
I have about 10-12 knives, from shuns-masahiro to global-wusthof and between. I bought a knife on wish just to try it out for ca $50 with vg-10 and the feeling I get from the core is it is as hard as my shun. I haven't used it a lot yet but this far I must say I like it. But it won't go in my knife bag for work but at home, absolutely.
Burr, This video answered a question I've been wanting to answer for sometime. Long story short I grew up in a Cutco family that loved knives that "never needed sharpening". After getting sick of trying to trim briskets with a dull paring knife...or a serrated blade I stumbled onto your channel...and found Dalstrong. Over the next 3 years I replaced every functional knife with Dalstrong, which I was expecting to be VG10...yet the blades all read AUS10V. I love the knives but that always puzzled me. I've since moved on to a block that is full of Enzo, Miyabi, Wusthof and a touch of Shun & Kramer. I might add that each step from Cutco->Dalstrong-> Enso/Shun/Wusthof/Miyabi aren't small they are gigantic leaps! And I'm selling most of my Dalstrong collection....but I'm keeping the 8" Shogun Series X Chef knife! Thank you. One question down 9,976 to go!
5:25 FC61 is almost certainly AEB-L/13c26 (Razor steel.) It's a great steel for fine edges, if they're making it hard enough. (The name implies "fine carbide, 61 RC," so it should be good in that respect. If it's not something similar to that, I'll eat my hat.) As you've been saying, it's easy to copy the name if it's just a designation of a steel composition. If you don't reveal what the composition is, FC61 just means "proprietary Miyabi steel" and can't be copied. (Someone could easily run an analysis on a knife and buy similar steel, but you can't call it "Miyabi FC61" without demonstrating explicitly that you're copying them.) Also, Zwilling could switch between suppliers (Bohler to Sandvik, in this case) and wouldn't have to say anything about it, *even if the composition or process changes slightly.* FC61 means whatever Zwilling wants it to mean. So long as the consumer trusts Zwilling, they don't have anything to worry about, but this does make it hard to "clone" them so exactly. The same goes, to a certain extent, for VG-Max or any other proprietary alloy.
Came here because a Japan Surplus shop near me sells a KAI 0702 VG-Max Damascus Santoku 7" What do you thing about the KAI brand... Learned a lot from your channel, I got the advantage of knowing brands like Kyocera so everytime I see one in good condition, I buy it and resell it.
VGMax is basically Shun's rebranding of VG10, Don't expect it to perform too differently from VG10. There are better stainless options than VG10 like AEBL that I would advise you looking into. In my experience, VG10 is harder to sharpen, and chips somewhat easily.
John Wilkinson: I'm guessing they were one of the Chinese companies that stopped receiving VG-10. I have a Shogun X 8" chef's knife in AUS-10V. The steel seems fine, but I don't care for the profile so it's in the box until I find someone who wants it.
John Wilkinson: It turns out that the combination of the high tip/wide blade/constant radius of their chef's knife makes it feel shorter than it is, and like I'm working "downhill". I really wanted to love this *_gorgeous_* knife, but because I know I don't like using it, i have enough knives that I do like so I don't have to force myself. I guess that's a great reason to try before you buy if possible.
fun fact till this day i have never seen a shun knife in person here in Germany. miyabi and Zwilling in general are very popular. btw FC-61 is Zwillings rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel and MC66 Zwillings rebrand name for the ZDP-186 steel both tradenames are owned by Zwilling greetings
I agree with you that some manufacturers will say they use VG10 steel and then use a substitute. I am a retired chemist/metallurgist for a very large utility and had problems with suppliers trying to sell us products that did not meet specifications. I would be sent samples from production batches and some would not meet specifications. The consumers do not have test equipment for steel composition like a portable x-ray fluorescence analyzer which gives chemical composition with damaging the sample. I had two laboratory x-ray fluorescence analyzers which could analyze the chemical composition of any kitchen knife. The VG10 composition is 1.0% carbon, 1.% molybednum, 15% chromium, 0.2% vanadium and 1.5% cobalt which is a stainless steel and easy to analyze. I always buy from directly from the knife marker or from a licensed distributor regardless of price.
I believe that anyone can make a very good knife and does not matter which manufacturer so long as works well because years ago made in Japan was considered inferior to made in the US. I know that the Chinese can make good knives for less than made in Japan because of the lower labor costs.
So that's why I've been seeing AUS10V! Concerning VG-MAX I thought higher Co was one of the differences, along with higher hardness now, pretty darn close to that new Cos steel to if ya ask me... 🤔
Really depends on what you like in a steel. Best carbon steel overall is probably aogami super (blue Super) because of edge retention (which white steels dont have as much of) and because it's easy to sharpen and gets very sharp. White 2 is often said to be the easiest to sharpen as and white 1 is supposed to get the sharpest due to its high purity. Best stainless is probably ZDP 189 in terms of sharpness and edge retention but it is also a pain in the ass to sharpen from what ive heard. R2/SG2 would take my vote for best stainless because it has crazy edge reyention and is very easy to sharpen. It's also used by many skilled makers(Takeshi saji for example). Custom makers tend to use 52100 a lot too which says a lot about its quality although idk much about it.
Knives made in China and sold on Amazon using the VG-10 stamp are most likely using 10Cr15CoMov which is a Chinese analog to VG-10, It’s unfortunate, but does happen. It’s the same with Chinese made D2, it’ll be labeled D2, but actually Cr12MoV.
I agree that VG10 and VG Max "feel" the same. VG MAX is primarily just a marketing term that Shun uses to make themselves "special". Shun unfairly got a bad name because people who didn't have skill and didn't know how to use a knife properly, chipped them. 99.99% were the customers fault, not a defect of materials and manufacture. it was shun marketed to the wrong people. So Shun had to change their image a bit. I HIGHLY agree with ryky about the issue of people using the name VG10, about the fraudulent use of the trademark. You will also see some knives from a certain country with American marketing companies claiming that a similar formula is "Japanese" steel just line many manufacturers are claiming the same formula of steel as DIN 1.4116 is "German steel" or even "Krups Thyssen 4116" even thou it was NOT made by Krups and not made in Germany. (no coincidentally it's the same country) I agree with ryky. It is NOT that Chinese can't make good knives. they can IF they CHOOSE to or IF a contractor forces them to follow proper processes. Spyderco makes GREAT stuff from China. The trouble is that MOST knives coming from China do NOT care about quality, they care about numbers and how it looks because they are catering to a gullible buyer who doensn't know any better and couldn't tell the difference if they had it in their hands BUY WISELY DO NOT FALL FOR A FALSE SENSE OF "ECONOMY" THERE IS A BIG DIFFERNE BETWEEN BEING FRUGAL AND BEING CHEAP
I have a Sakai Takayuki VG 10 160mm I use it for the majority of my cooking I am not gentle with it I have only had to fix a couple of minor nicks in the 2 years I have owned it, There are a couple of Chinese made knives that I like the style of but the worry about the quality puts me off, It is a shame that the Chinese can not be trusted because they do make some very fine products but most people will not buy them because of the outright scumbags running the businesses and country, Does anyone know any Chinese Knife companies that can be trusted.
Shun knives are exceptional. I have become so fond of them. For most people, I suggest making life simple and buy Shun knives, they are awesome. I doubt you will ever regret it.
I bought a knife on Amazon thinking I was buying a Japanese knife with VG10 damascus steel. The knife I received, the box stated made in China. The brochure inside stated it was HRC56 not the HRC62 I expected. It also stated it was made out of German steel. What a rip off. I sent it back.
FC61 is probably AEB-L/13c26 from sweden or something very close to it and to your point, no one (or only a very minuscule portion) in the market for a Masakage, Tanaka, Takamura etc VG10 lines is really going to be considering anything from China. This is def a problem for the big name brands like Shun though. Then again those in the market for hand forged knives probably aren't looking at VG10 anyway...
I think you could be hitting the nail on the head as with sg2 steel which never really took of which I cant see why it's a great powder steel they renamed it r2 steel which is starting to take of and it's not to expensive either it's all down to branding of the steel as for Aus 10 there seems to be alot out there from lower numbers I tend to steer clear from theese knives as I'm not quite sure on the steel
I'm really liking the in-depth videos.
Thank you.
That clears up so much. Thank you for the detailed in-depth videos. Keep up the good work.
This type of videos, altough different, are really interesting for those who want to learn about knvies overall. Thanks
Love the new studio setup 👌 Nice video, interesting stuff to learn and it is so cool that you got to meet them! I'd be interested in seeing videos from the visit.
I had kinda picked up on the VG10 market issue when looking into steels in the past. It's fun to dig into the process and composition and characteristics of different steels every now and then, would be neat to talk about that in a video, if you were interested in it.
Interesting and informative video, very educational. I thought you did a great job of taking the high road, not throwing any companies under the bus, and just providing the facts so that people can draw their own conclusions. Very tactfully done.
In the USA, just return a product that doesn't have a country of origin.
It is illegal not to have a country of origin label and can come with $100k fine for EACH infringement.
Also, report them :)
social3ngin33rin guess what country was the “primary” reason for the implementation😂
@@MrBLAA its cause they know people will think they are rubbish knives when its not the truth
Please do a knife metal tier list!!!!! That would be fascinating.
there ARE some "better" steels for certain types of knives. But WHO makes the steel and WHO makes the knife are 10 times more important.
And EVERY steel has benefits AND detriments. You do NOT want to use the same style steel for cutting hard vegies as you do for meat and especially not for sashihi.
Thre is NOT "best" steel, nor even a "better" steel for all tasks, and especially for all users. people without discipline are actually LESS likely to do well with a certain type steel than an experienced person. Just like it is NOT a good idea to start a new driver out on a ferrari. It harms their skill set, not help it.
Thank you for the up front summary!
Great video! Thank you for the information.
Great Video.
You are really knowledgeable.
Thanks for uploading
REALLY interesting stuff, Ryky! Would love to see more videos with knowledge you've attained that us commoners might otherwise never know. 😋
What do you think of asymmetrical bevels? Is a 70/30 (or 90/10) more or less effective than a 50/50 and why? Since I don't use it much anymore, I'm thinking about making my Tojiro DP asymmetrical, but want to have some good reasons before doing so. 🤙🏼
Been waiting for this one and was not disappointed. Another great video. I always suspected VG-Max was essentially rebranded VG-10. It makes sense why they did it now.
Thanks. Nice video. I like your idea of **selling those knives to places that can make good of the them like soup kitchens. 👍👍👏👏
Question, Will you do a video of of pocket knife sharpening and care?
Hi! Do you or anyone else have any experience with ZDP - 189? It should have a really good HRC but for me it doesn't seem to retain the sharpnes as long as one would expect.
There are some knives made in Japan not stamped "Made in Japan". When I purchased a Takamura in Hakone I was told that some knives aren't stamped with Made in Japan because of distribution and contract reasons.
Really interesting video. Sucks how the market got so saturated, but I'm happy they found out a way to set themselves apart from the knockoffs. One of my greatest fears in buying these pricey knives is that there are so many fakes. And I'm one hella unlucky person, so I'm sure to get a phony. Thanks again for the info!
I would be interested in a video concerning the difference between white and blue japanese steel #2. White can get a little bit sharper and the blue one is more durable. But how big is the difference. That would interest me - especially because I bought one of the last Ryky Blue #2 Gyuto 240 and want to treat this beautiful knife right the way I should?
I see you have started to make your own iron throne chef knife edition. Looks good!
Zwilling's Fc61 (fine carbide 61rhc) is changes depending on knife. Miyabi Kazen and Morimoto Fusion are VG10, where the Kramer stainless steel essential is a 13c27. For some reason they just don't want to promote the steel types. Another example is the Miyabi Black series. Mc66 is ZDP189.
Dudeeeeee this video is actually brilliant. Ty man great watch.
Much appreciated!
FC61 Steel Composition And Reference Data:
C: 0,68; Cr: 13,00; Mn: 0,70;
P: 0,02; S: 0,01; Si: 0,40;
Maker: Sandvik - Sweden (SE)
Notes:
Henckel rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel.
Cross-References:
Known Aliases:
FC-61
Proprietary:
Bohler-Uddeholm - AEB-L
Bohler-Uddeholm - N-611
Bohler-Uddeholm - N611
Hitachi - PS60
Hitachi - PS-60
Lone Wolf - LV-02
Outokumpu - SF.100
Sandvik - 13C26
Would you please compare your experience with VG-10 knives with SG2 knives? Thanks!
Should a kitchen knife made of Rex 121 @ 70hrc exist? What you think??
Hello I had seen you post video a few years back on cutting board you bought how is your cutting board today
I really like the in depth videos as well. I would mind hearing your thoughts on carbon steel in general and perhaps the different Japanese steels, blue and white paper steels.
*I worked as a materials engineer for 5 years. Theoretically all steel/iron has to have a chain of custody back to the point of origin. The point of origin is the mill - and all batches (they're called "heats") must include a Mill Test Report. Included on that report is the chemical composition analysis and the country of origin. After the steel leaves the mill it can go through several processing steps before the end product actually makes it to a consumer. It's common for each step of the process to be done by several third parties; however the Bill of Lading that's required to be included with steel deliveries is supposed to identify the heat number throughout the processing.*
The asterisk is because I'm not sure how much effort it would take to get that information within the knife industry, and proprietary information may be an obstacle. I'm not sure anyone would want to put in that level of effort, but I'm pretty confident you could at least figure out the country of origin if you're persistent enough.
I'm not a very good cook, nor do I have very good knife skills, but I do cook at home often, and I do enjoy learning about cutlery and cookware. I'm also smart enough to know that just because I have learned more about high end knives, and can appreciate their beauty, that doesn't mean I should buy one of the better, more expensive ones, since my cooking and knife skills do not warrant the purchase. For now I'm sticking with knives that are appropriate for my budget and skill level, but that doesn't mean I can't research, understand and appreciate the good stuff. Thank you for your time and effort.
Yes!! More steel talk please!
Can i trust Miyabi brand ? I found one with FC61steel, is that steel still mistery steel after 4 years passed ? Is it much worse than vg10?
Yo burr .. I just got a cold steel vg10 san mai 12" tanto ... Any opinions ? On quality and edge life
Love the new chats! Does this new information change your views on Dalstrong at all? Do you still recommend them?
If they pays him enough money lol.
How do you categorize Dalstrong knives? They would seem to be in the category you are describing as a knife made in China using Japanese steel. Not sure if they identify themselves as a Chinese company or not.
Nice video mate, good work, what knife do you recomend me to buy, I'm a chef so I'll use it almost everyday for long time, I'm looking for a Chef knife, hard steel, old school french style or japanese, I already have a wusthof and I want something for more delicates works, something between 150-350$, and also what Sharpening Stones do yo recomend me to strat with, I already have a 400/1000 but is not a rlly good quality, and I want a good set to take care of my new knife.
Cheers mate and continue with your videos rlly great work.
Love your channel Ryky !
I was hoping you would do a short segment on maintaining the wooden handle on certain knives, particularly Japanese.
Recently bought Miyabi Birchwood and Takefu Village artisan, and want to ensure the beautiful wooden handles are taken care of as much as the blade.
Also applies somewhat to my Shun's, but as these have more of a laquered finish, not as critical.
Best way to protect the "raw wood" finish.
Would imagine it would be much the same care as for your cutting boards ?
This is 👌, I want to hear about personal experiences
I have been waiting for this video, I just got a Shun Classic Santoku for myself, and a Paring knife for a mate for his birthday, he gave me the biggest bro hug, he's in love with it and said it'll be an heirloom. but wow these knives are beautiful and razor sharp, I'd only ever used Victorinox in the past, this is a whole other level! *HINT* I could happily buy a Shun Chef knife :) I'll even do a review too
Coming from the pocketknife world of folders and fixed blades, I wonder why there’s so much buzz around VG10 when many of the high end pocketknives have sailed far beyond vg10 (which is now considered an “old super steel”) are using s45vn, s90v, or some high end carbon steels like cpm3v, etc, which seem to have better edge retention and toughness properties than vg10. Can anyone explain? Sorry for my naïveté.
I bought three types of knives recently. I didn’t know what type I’d like. When I get up I’ll check the brands and where they were made. The chefs knife was great! It is thin and light. The pairing knife is great. The “chopping” knife is a little thick and everything sticks to it.
Can anyone share a link about knife layering? I can't find anything... 😭
Have you been following the development of wootz in recent years, the difference between regular steel and wootz was only something like .8 percent inclusion of vanadium in the smelting process, thats a tiny percentage which gave the wootz steel legendary status across the globe at a time when there wasn't even internet. Don't be fooled into thinking a small percentage makes no difference. In metallurgical terms it's giant.
I'm still interested in the dollar knives too btw. Fingers kinda crossed.
Although, I am considering selling my shuns and Kai's to pick up one of the zdp189 black blades, do you have any thoughts on choosing either a bunka or gyuto for someone that usually uses a kai santoku and shun carving knife, I have the kai 5" paring and bread knife too but I will have to sell them all, these have been my primary kitchen blades? I already know how tough zdp can be to sharpen, so would just like your thoughts on the knife choice in general, I am leaning towards gyuto because it's a tad cheaper but a bit longer than the bunka, and the bunka is I think about the same as my santoku, but the gyuto only a few mm longer than the shun carving. In theory it's choosing to pick something to match what I would pick of the two I already have but thats actually not as easy as I thought given that I will only have that one blade for a while going forwards.
Love the setup
Hi experts , I got a Takahara (a rebrand from another brand) it says kumadori on the outside and inside it says blue #2 210mm gyuto but i don’t see it says make in Japan. Anyone knows? Thanks
Any input guys?
So I'm curious what's your thoughts on delstrong knifes?
How about the ORIENT knife? is it good? The logo was catchy... tiger head.. while dalstrong..lion head :D
Any updates on your knife? Any eta?
whats a good knife set that won't break the bank 4 to 5 pc up to $400-500
fc61 is a sandvik (swedish) steel. There is an app called knife steel composition with the logo of FE (26) and a knife on it. Very valuable for uses
Hi Ricky and interesting talk on VG steels I have a question if a knife is described as being made with Japanese stainless steel and a Rockwell of 53 what steel would it be most likely be made from .Regards Dena from Oz
Im guessing you have a baccarat knife maybe from House made in China
Love your videos, very informative. I’m becoming a big fan! So what is the difference between VG10 and AUS10 in terms of performance and manufacture?
SIMILAR..... hand forged VG10 will feel much more substantial and hold a better edge than AUS10. factory forged VG10 will feel ever slightly denser, but generally, vg10 will outperform AUS10 in edge retention and feedback
I really like this long form, informative type video.
What do you think of tamahagane blades?
The shun 10 inch knife he uses is this real damascus ?
You mentioned Masakage a bunch of times in this video, do you plan on reviewing more knives from more artisanal knife makers?
Masakage and Fujiwara knives have some serious blades, especially Super Blue Steel
Hi I'm sorry I might be wrong but I see global knives in the background. Is there any review on them. Of not could we please get a review
they are very good, particularely if you are a professionnal chef imo because the handle is steel so more resistant than wood and the steel is a bit softer than your usual japanse chef knife which is good because if you drop it, less chance of snapping the blade (same with the edge, i'd rather a bent edge than a chipped edge while i'm working because i can just do a few passes on my steel if the edge is just bent.
@@rakshas1340 Global's CROMOVA 18 steel is hardened to 56-58 HRC. It has a huge amount of chromium that makes it very rust resistant at the expense of edge retention and sharpness. I still have my Global G2 that I purchased in 1996 when I was a student. It takes a reasonable edge and retains it reasonably well. But due to the relative softness of the CROMOVA you will not get a full on japanese knife performance. They are decent knives though. You need to understand what your main priority is and the think about the downsides that you prepared to live with.
RE: FC61 steel, based on the sparse metallurgical info mentioned in the America's Test Kitchen carbon steel knife vid (Kramer vs Victorinox) and that FC means "fine carbide," my guess is it uses a very similar if not the same process in making the steel, BUT of course with a modification to the alloy composition that allows for it to not crumble when they heat- and cryo-treat the blade to a higher hardness rating.
VG-10 is one of my favorite stainless steels. Probably because of the sheer value you get out of it for the money if the steel is well-treated. I guess oversaturation is somewhat responsible for the low prices but, at the same time as you said, its reputation is not so good now because of the many bad "VG-10" knives. Having had one of those Chinese knives myself to see what it was like, there is a huge difference between one of those and...say, a Yoshihiro.
The Chinese santoku was incredibly thick, like stupidly beefy, and weighed almost 2x as much as my Yoshihiro nakiri due to the heavy G10 handle (advertised as "light"). There was nearly no distal taper to speak of, the knife face down to the blade road had a very subtle and gentle slope but it was almost like the maker ran out of blade road before getting to the edge, so there was a very sudden shoulder that established the edge bevel. The spine was almost 4mm thick, so you can imagine it wedged like hell. There was also barely enough knuckle clearance, you needed to pinch or else your knuckles would cause you to start getting accordion cuts in your green onions when cutting with the heel. The steel was actually not too bad because it was not hard to sharpen and it could hold an edge, but it would require so much work to turn it into a decent performer that it would not be worth the price. It was like a cleaver that got mushed into a "santoku" shape and the whole thing felt odd, almost hardened plasticine, despite it feeling sturdy. Just a big ol' metal hunk with a much bigger focus on polish and F&F without any thought put into usability and cutting ability. It just looks all shiny but if any amateur started using this knife and then picked up a Konosuke or something, no sane person would choose this knife.
My Yoshihiro nakiri was my first VG-10 knife and one of the ones I still reach for first despite it being almost like a beater knife to me. Ol' reliable. The heat treat is excellent. Personally, I have seen chipping issues with many Shuns, which is why I didn't get one. Quite thin behind the edge but no chipping issues whatsoever even though I do things I shouldn't, like mash garlic and ginger with the flat (possibly bending the edge whenever I do so), sharpens easily despite the fact that it doesn't readily take a noticeable conventional burr. Since Shun and Yoshihiro are hardened to apparently similar levels, I am not sure what causes the chippiness issues I saw in earlier Shuns. In any case, I would choose my beater nakiri over a Shun due to the dramatically lighter weight. Simple triple-riveted wooden scale handle is preferable to me over the heavy synthetic material in the Shun handle. I do find it a little sad that VG-10 has such a bad reputation among many circles because of poor examples produced by some careless makers. When well-treated, VG-10 makes an incredible knife material, especially for the typically low cost. TojiroDP knives are a good example.
I have a bad VG-10 knife myself, a Japanese-made Ikeuti En single-beveled funayuki/petty. The edge is incredibly frail and the blade is even a little curved. I got it for $15 on clearance on the Japan woodworker site so I didn't expect anything breathtaking but the thing is nearly unusable, worse than any Chinese knife. It comes with a bright orange grippy cover over the wa handle. It chips like a stale saltine on anything no matter how gently I sharpen, even on a hinoki board and even if I put a microbevel on it, and has stayed this way through about 10 sharpenings. It chips soon after sharpening to matter what I cut--bananas, salami, green onions, peppers, you name it. It will probably chip if you look at it wrong. It also steers in a slightly different way than a properly made straight single-bevel. So it is useless except for cutting small, soft ingredients. I use this one for sharpening practice and have been trying to gradually work on it to make it usable. I really don't know how it made it past QC unless some first-year apprentice was responsible for this monstrosity.
So that's why knivesandtools changed their Eden knife series to aus10 all of a sudden. Now I'm not sure if what I got is actual vg10,they feel so different compared to my tojiro dp3. Good thing I'm going for a white nr2 from sakai takayuki or sakai kikumori (still need to hold both side by side to make the final choice)
Does anyone have any experience with the Chinese knife manufacturer Shan Zu?
I’m more of a folder knife guy but just got my wife a couple shun premier knives for Christmas. She’s also a sue chef but these are for home.
Love your videos. I was just promoted as a sous chef. If I could buy one of those giveaways I would really care for the knife!
Hi there, Ryki,
Since you aquired the katana and announced that you were going to learn to sharpen it I have not seen a video from you addressing the technique to sharpen a sword. I practice Pekitit Tirsia Kali and own some knives and a Ginunting (20’’ blade) and I would really appreciate if you could showe us the way to sharpen that kind of blade using whetstones. The blade is too long for the width of the stones and I do not want to damage the blade. It would be much appreciated. Love your channel and the passion you convey -even when you look tired. Thank you in advance!
Fc61 steel is sanvick 13c26 steel out of Sweden that henckels renamed to fc61. A really good stainless steel. It's suppose to be very similar to aebl steel
yes 13c26 is very similar to aebl. i think it's just their name for it. there's also 14c28n which is somewhat of an improvement to 13c26
The brilliance of this move is that Zwilling can buy 13c26 *or* AEB-L *or* whatever local clone they like. FC61 is whatever Zwilling wants it to be. (Bohler and Sandvik have local inventory, so I doubt there's much need to shift suppliers, but I'm sure it's a handy bargaining chip for pricing orders.)
And nobody can copy the branding the way they could if Zwilling advertised "Swedish Razor Steel."
According to the Knife Steel Composition app:
FC61 (FC-61) is a Henkles rebrand name for Sandvik 13C26 (Sweden)
C: 0.68
CR: 13.00
Mn: 0.70
P: 0.025
S: 0.010
Si: 0.40
can you do a video on sharpening a pocket knife?
Where does BD1N belong in your opinion? Comparo to Vg10 and SG2 specifically. Thanks
Baboy Lechon : I would go for BD1N over Vg10 personally. SG2 is harder stainless steel than Vg10 and is more expensive.
I'm a fan of BD1N. I can't tell the difference between sharpening it and VG-10, even though it's a couple Rockwells harder. I'm not the best to advise on edge retention, as I strop my knives every few uses. I don't have any experience with SG2, but if I upgrade my VG-10 I'd love to try SG2. Have heard great things about it.
Nice video? How to become your supporter? I really would like to have a Shun Chef knife!
I have about 10-12 knives, from shuns-masahiro to global-wusthof and between. I bought a knife on wish just to try it out for ca $50 with vg-10 and the feeling I get from the core is it is as hard as my shun. I haven't used it a lot yet but this far I must say I like it. But it won't go in my knife bag for work but at home, absolutely.
What knife did you buy? How's it held up?
i have a WMF Yari that i bought in germany, dont know a lot about it but i do like it
Burr, This video answered a question I've been wanting to answer for sometime. Long story short I grew up in a Cutco family that loved knives that "never needed sharpening". After getting sick of trying to trim briskets with a dull paring knife...or a serrated blade I stumbled onto your channel...and found Dalstrong. Over the next 3 years I replaced every functional knife with Dalstrong, which I was expecting to be VG10...yet the blades all read AUS10V. I love the knives but that always puzzled me. I've since moved on to a block that is full of Enzo, Miyabi, Wusthof and a touch of Shun & Kramer.
I might add that each step from Cutco->Dalstrong-> Enso/Shun/Wusthof/Miyabi aren't small they are gigantic leaps!
And I'm selling most of my Dalstrong collection....but I'm keeping the 8" Shogun Series X Chef knife!
Thank you. One question down 9,976 to go!
I wonder if you sold your junk Dalstrong set.
It's known to be trash. But there are so many fools out there.
5:25 FC61 is almost certainly AEB-L/13c26 (Razor steel.) It's a great steel for fine edges, if they're making it hard enough. (The name implies "fine carbide, 61 RC," so it should be good in that respect. If it's not something similar to that, I'll eat my hat.)
As you've been saying, it's easy to copy the name if it's just a designation of a steel composition. If you don't reveal what the composition is, FC61 just means "proprietary Miyabi steel" and can't be copied. (Someone could easily run an analysis on a knife and buy similar steel, but you can't call it "Miyabi FC61" without demonstrating explicitly that you're copying them.)
Also, Zwilling could switch between suppliers (Bohler to Sandvik, in this case) and wouldn't have to say anything about it, *even if the composition or process changes slightly.* FC61 means whatever Zwilling wants it to mean. So long as the consumer trusts Zwilling, they don't have anything to worry about, but this does make it hard to "clone" them so exactly. The same goes, to a certain extent, for VG-Max or any other proprietary alloy.
C: 0,68; Cr: 13,00; Mn: 0,70;
P: 0,02; S: 0,01; Si: 0,40;
Maker: Sandvik - Sweden (SE)
Notes:
Henckel rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel.
Cross-References:
Known Aliases:
FC-61
Proprietary:
Bohler-Uddeholm - AEB-L
Bohler-Uddeholm - N-611
Bohler-Uddeholm - N611
Hitachi - PS60
Hitachi - PS-60
Lone Wolf - LV-02
Outokumpu - SF.100
Sandvik - 13C26
Came here because a Japan Surplus shop near me sells a KAI 0702 VG-Max Damascus Santoku 7"
What do you thing about the KAI brand... Learned a lot from your channel, I got the advantage of knowing brands like Kyocera so everytime I see one in good condition, I buy it and resell it.
Good video
Any sharpening video !
VGMax is basically Shun's rebranding of VG10, Don't expect it to perform too differently from VG10. There are better stainless options than VG10 like AEBL that I would advise you looking into. In my experience, VG10 is harder to sharpen, and chips somewhat easily.
Would love to see a knife/cutting comparison between Chinese cleaver and a Usuba or Nakiri
Can you review Kiwi brand knives?
Where does aus10 used by dalstrong fit?
John Wilkinson: I'm guessing they were one of the Chinese companies that stopped receiving VG-10. I have a Shogun X 8" chef's knife in AUS-10V. The steel seems fine, but I don't care for the profile so it's in the box until I find someone who wants it.
@@b-radg916 I've got the santoku, think I'll get the nakiri next I've always liked the push cut knives better...
John Wilkinson: It turns out that the combination of the high tip/wide blade/constant radius of their chef's knife makes it feel shorter than it is, and like I'm working "downhill". I really wanted to love this *_gorgeous_* knife, but because I know I don't like using it, i have enough knives that I do like so I don't have to force myself. I guess that's a great reason to try before you buy if possible.
Maybe the difference between Masamoto KS and Ryky Blue #2.
fun fact till this day i have never seen a shun knife in person here in Germany. miyabi and Zwilling in general are very popular. btw FC-61 is Zwillings rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel and MC66 Zwillings rebrand name for the ZDP-186 steel both tradenames are owned by Zwilling greetings
I agree with you that some manufacturers will say they use VG10 steel and then use a substitute. I am a retired chemist/metallurgist for a very large utility and had problems with suppliers trying to sell us products that did not meet specifications. I would be sent samples from production batches and some would not meet specifications. The consumers do not have test equipment for steel composition like a portable x-ray fluorescence analyzer which gives chemical composition with damaging the sample. I had two laboratory x-ray fluorescence analyzers which could analyze the chemical composition of any kitchen knife. The VG10 composition is 1.0% carbon, 1.% molybednum, 15% chromium, 0.2% vanadium and 1.5% cobalt which is a stainless steel and easy to analyze. I always buy from directly from the knife marker or from a licensed distributor regardless of price.
I believe that anyone can make a very good knife and does not matter which manufacturer so long as works well because years ago made in Japan was considered inferior to made in the US. I know that the Chinese can make good knives for less than made in Japan because of the lower labor costs.
FC61 super steel is imported from Sweden to japan to make knives in case anyone is wondering .
So that's why I've been seeing AUS10V! Concerning VG-MAX I thought higher Co was one of the differences, along with higher hardness now, pretty darn close to that new Cos steel to if ya ask me... 🤔
Wow!
VG-10 is awesome stuff.
VG 10 vs Blue?
So what is the best overall steel for knives?
Really depends on what you like in a steel. Best carbon steel overall is probably aogami super (blue Super) because of edge retention (which white steels dont have as much of) and because it's easy to sharpen and gets very sharp. White 2 is often said to be the easiest to sharpen as and white 1 is supposed to get the sharpest due to its high purity.
Best stainless is probably ZDP 189 in terms of sharpness and edge retention but it is also a pain in the ass to sharpen from what ive heard. R2/SG2 would take my vote for best stainless because it has crazy edge reyention and is very easy to sharpen. It's also used by many skilled makers(Takeshi saji for example).
Custom makers tend to use 52100 a lot too which says a lot about its quality although idk much about it.
FC61 is Henckle rebrand of Sandvik 13C26 which is very similar to AEBL
I think Shun’s VG-MAX is Takefu VG-10w slightly increase of carbon and chromium with little tungsten.
Knives made in China and sold on Amazon using the VG-10 stamp are most likely using 10Cr15CoMov which is a Chinese analog to VG-10, It’s unfortunate, but does happen.
It’s the same with Chinese made D2, it’ll be labeled D2, but actually Cr12MoV.
Do you own any Tramontina knife???????
I agree that VG10 and VG Max "feel" the same.
VG MAX is primarily just a marketing term that Shun uses to make themselves "special". Shun unfairly got a bad name because people who didn't have skill and didn't know how to use a knife properly, chipped them. 99.99% were the customers fault, not a defect of materials and manufacture. it was shun marketed to the wrong people. So Shun had to change their image a bit.
I HIGHLY agree with ryky about the issue of people using the name VG10, about the fraudulent use of the trademark.
You will also see some knives from a certain country with American marketing companies claiming that a similar formula is "Japanese" steel just line many manufacturers are claiming the same formula of steel as DIN 1.4116 is "German steel" or even "Krups Thyssen 4116" even thou it was NOT made by Krups and not made in Germany. (no coincidentally it's the same country)
I agree with ryky. It is NOT that Chinese can't make good knives. they can IF they CHOOSE to or IF a contractor forces them to follow proper processes. Spyderco makes GREAT stuff from China. The trouble is that MOST knives coming from China do NOT care about quality, they care about numbers and how it looks because they are catering to a gullible buyer who doensn't know any better and couldn't tell the difference if they had it in their hands
BUY WISELY
DO NOT FALL FOR A FALSE SENSE OF "ECONOMY"
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERNE BETWEEN BEING FRUGAL AND BEING CHEAP
I have a Sakai Takayuki VG 10 160mm I use it for the majority of my cooking I am not gentle with it I have only had to fix a couple of minor nicks in the 2 years I have owned it, There are a couple of Chinese made knives that I like the style of but the worry about the quality puts me off, It is a shame that the Chinese can not be trusted
because they do make some very fine products but most people will not buy them because of the outright scumbags running the businesses and country,
Does anyone know any Chinese Knife companies that can be trusted.
@@robertwalker1333 LOVE!
FC-61 or FC61 is Henckel rebrand of Sandvik 13C26 steel.
13C26 is similar to Uddeholm AEB-L, both are most used in fixed blade knives.
nice! thank you
Shun knives are exceptional. I have become so fond of them. For most people, I suggest making life simple and buy Shun knives, they are awesome. I doubt you will ever regret it.
I just stared at the knives in the back the whole time.
I want to see the video.
I bought a knife on Amazon thinking I was buying a Japanese knife with VG10 damascus steel. The knife I received, the box stated made in China. The brochure inside stated it was HRC56 not the HRC62 I expected. It also stated it was made out of German steel. What a rip off. I sent it back.
Were you unaware of spyderco using Vg10 steel for many many years?
FC61 is probably AEB-L/13c26 from sweden or something very close to it
and to your point, no one (or only a very minuscule portion) in the market for a Masakage, Tanaka, Takamura etc VG10 lines is really going to be considering anything from China. This is def a problem for the big name brands like Shun though.
Then again those in the market for hand forged knives probably aren't looking at VG10 anyway...
I think you could be hitting the nail on the head as with sg2 steel which never really took of which I cant see why it's a great powder steel they renamed it r2 steel which is starting to take of and it's not to expensive either it's all down to branding of the steel as for Aus 10 there seems to be alot out there from lower numbers I tend to steer clear from theese knives as I'm not quite sure on the steel
Can you review global knives