I once saw a slabbed coin graded like MS 60 that the owner accidently dropped in water. They "shook it off" and let it sit for months and roughly half the coin toned. He tried to sell it as a "half toned" coin. I offered half price. He called me a half wit. LOL
@@justinkeys523 funny thing is that I found a totally red silver washington at the bottom of a 12 foot dive several decades back. Chlorine is extremely harsh
I had plenty of chemistry classes in getting my degree in Chemical Engineering and agree with you that "toning" is damage, synonymous to rust on iron. However, some of this damage might look "pretty". Good truthful video Daniel.
I have dipped a couple cheaper silver coins such as a 1985 100FF I got for $10 because the toning didn't look good at all. After dipping, the cartwheel effect was back but you could see areas where the luster was less pronounced and these were the areas that were toned the most. I suppose that the silver sulfide is broken off of the surface of the coin and what remains is a scarred coin. You need to figure it out for yourself if it is worth it or not. In my cases, it was. I would not dip a Morgan with rim toning, for instance.
@@GardenerEarthGuy What you see and qualifies as toning is usually some sort of silver compound due to the reaction to chemicals in the environment and, no, it is not oxydation. Silver sulfide is the most common compound you find.
Condition will sell a coin but eye appeal will sell it faster. Toning is a matter of individual preference. If you collect copper or bronze, for instance the Canadian Victoria large cent series, a grey toned or black uncirculated coin will knock your socks off.
This is a big grading topic that I am actually working on for an article. Toning is damage, but it also can form that protective layer. Proper grading slabs can protect the coin from toning further. NGC seems to have the best holder to protect against further toning. We should not turn collectors away from toned coins as every coin will eventually tone to a degree. As you said, some coins actually become majestic spectacular examples that can sell for many times more than an untoned example of the same coin in the same grade. I have been accumulating some of the finest known toned coins to illustrate my article. This article, when completed, will take many months to be published. In many cases, it may take a year or more before an accepted article is published. Great topic and video.
It’s true I have a toned silver denarius of Emperor Hadrian with a brilliant rainbow toning around the portrait and it’s in an NGC slab graded AU 5/5 4/5 yet I’ve gotten offers far above what normal AU Hadrian denarius coins sell for. People just seem to really like the rainbow background with bright white portrait more than a normal bright white all over denarius.
I've had a coin grade Genuine Details Questionable color, I put it through the restoration process at PCGS while they still had the coin so I wouldn't have to wait for it to come back and me resend it. After that it graded MS64 PL. It was an 1887 Morgan. Thanks for another great video this was informative.
I like your videos over others for the simple reasons that your not on here flaunting what you have, but rather to inform the general community and beginner
You're the best. Everytime I have a question in mind about coins, you come up out of the blue and give the right answer. Thanks again and again an again.
Right Frank!? Daniel is an absolute MONSTER when it comes to educational information for the coin collecting community. I was just wondering about toning last night, in fact it was brought up in my livestream and someone asked how it happens and I had to tell them I didnt know cause it's the truth, I don't know. Now thanks to Daniel I'm fully educated on how to happens/works.
I like that the linked page makes sure to boldy state that silver sulphide is "NOT" oxidation, when it literally is. Oxidation (oxidation state) is the summed charge state of an ion, it doesn't mean it's a result of oxygen, just a reaction from an element with an ion to change form and balance the charge out. Ag2S is "silver (1) sulphide" -> that (1) is the 1st of 3 oxide states that silver sulphide can be in - a properly performed reduction process will not (can not) damage the silver, as it is simply resetting the charge, converting the Ag2S to Ag(1+) and sulpher gas (if in solution, sulphuric acid). Then: 'haze is silver oxide' - no, the thinnest and thickest portion of oxidation both yield haze as they produce interference above and below the visible spectrum - if it were infact silver oxide, all you'd need to do is heat it to 200C and the oxide will reduce back into elemental silver... literally if you somehow find yourself with an actually oxidized bit of silver... 5 seconds with any lighter and it will be sparkling bright and clean again.
I enjoyed watching and learning from this video. I have said it before and will say again, thank you for all the good information you provide the coin collecting community!
I love toned coins. Natural coins are beautiful. Artificial toned coins can be caused by hard boiled eggs smashed and placed in a sealed container with the coin and left there for a couple of days.
Toning is damage of some kind no mater how you twist it. A coin put in a folder and gets paper toning is damage from sulfur or some other chemical. If someone wants "eye candy" on their coin that is fine. I don't want excess toning on my coins, but this being said i don't want a coin that has bee dipped either. I can not see paying extra money for toning but do not have a problem with anyone that does. With the extra value put on toned coins you then get into the problem of faked toning. I do a lot of metal detecting and come across copper coins with many shades of green patina. Is this damage? Yes it is but that is how i like to find my copper coins. Each to his own, but fake toning only hurts the hobby. Very nice thought out video. Thank you.
Agreed, I love Toning because it produces such beautiful colors but I can totally see it being a turn off for some. Artificial Toning is the worst and only benefits towards greed
Silver forms a patina when exposed to atmospheric sulphur. The patina forms on the surface and can protect the silver from further exposure deeper down. The toning is composed of silver sulfide crystals which allows light to pass through. Different colors will be visible depending on the thickness of the crystal layer. Toning via electrolysis or heat stress, is another story. I would avoid both.
I love toned rainbow coins. I have a beautiful collection of them. I don’t care if they are considered damaged or not. Many different kinds of collectors out there. I got my first rainbow toned coin in change one day. Been hooked ever since. I just bought a beautiful collection of state quarters sitting in a book. Beautiful.
Daniel you just keep coming thru for use with useful and informative new videos. I thank you my friend. Keep up the great job. I will say that I have seen some "WOW" toning . Have a good day to one and all.
I tried commenting once but something went wrong. Wanted to say thank you so much for all your advice and presenting the reality of all the overhype out there concerning the hobby and setting some folks up for failure. Your straight to the point and lay it out there for folks whether they like it or not. Your knowledge is second to none. Your recommendations for books to read, sites to log into, etc. is very much appreciated I am sure by all your subscribers including myself. Take care.
@@CoinHELPu Daniel, still watchin ur vid, but does toning reversal damage the coin? I guess eZest does this chemically but I guess ur aware of electro-chemically doing it with aluminum?
Thanks for this. PCI-toning was not known to me. I only have a couple of PCI-graded coins, as I have generally avoided that company. One of my 1949-D Franklins is in a PCI holder, which I bought at a show so many years ago because it had striking toning developing: light magenta and light lime green and yellow. Now I know it was from the holder encapsulating it. I hope that doesn't hurt its value. Still, it is now a curiosity. BTW, and I'm sure you all know this: Album toning develops from the periphery inwards, but also on the reverse more pronouncedly than the obverse. Coins once owned by collectors of old will generally NOT have the same level of toning on the two sides. Now early silver commemoratives if they were stored in their mailers or mounts may be really black and/or yellow encrusted from the sulfur in the cardboard and paper on one side (reverse, usually), and yet fairly brilliant on the inner regions of the obverse. Strongly black-toned coins few people like but deep yellow may be attractive. Still, they are completely original coins. Kinda stinks that people shun them so. These make the argument for some form of professional treatment/dipping/ restoration, but I'm not the one to do it. Also, more often than not the coin may be worth $100, the professional service might cost $50 and the result may cause regret so it seems just not worth it.
You can say before the coin is even ejected from the coining chamber that the metals themselves can be compromised. I would really consider tarnish damage and artificial toning damage but I’ve seen many beautiful toned coins. Cheers for this vid.
I think I mentioned that I had been block by a Facebook group for saying that a person who thought they had a rare coin should take it to a REPUTABLE coin dealer, the admin took umbrage and said HE was an expert then blocked me. This same Facebook group had a person routinely posting their artificially toned (by heat) coins. Toning IS damage but some times it looks real nice. Can it be safely removed - NOT NORMALLY. Thanks Daniel.
William there are many prima donnas out there thinking they are coin sages yet allowing their buddies to post garbage. They are deceivers. Stick with CoinHelpU, Daniel is the real deal.
The toning was captivating. Your grasp of the English language is refreshing. I appreciate that you stated “for all intents and purposes” instead of the butchered slang ... intensive purposes. Thanks once again for the entertaining videos!
I personally enjoy toned coins as well. However, there are some people who highly dislike them and want all the coins in their collections to be "frosty white." If I list coins on eBay that might even possibly have toning to them I make sure to add that to the description so buyers can't try to say I deceived them.
@@josepchwill1304 im not sure how people wouldnt like beautifully toned coins, how anyone could look at something like the Aurora Borealis collection and not be amazed is beyond me...
DANNY...i am STALKER girl. I certainly hope I never offend you as i am "silly , HOWEVER serious about the knowledge you provide to i...personally. THANK YOU. I am not tech smart... I REALLY low YOUR videos though. I like you cause you can make a FUNNY out of some things. Thad what's up. ❤× infinity post script....i am still stalker. Your COMPLETELY safe. And to the THUMBS down people....oh lord....tech s-cks. Delete the negativity. THANK YOU. Truly your friend...margaret❤
Thank you for the video, I have been waiting for you to upload one to discuss toning. Sadly there are so many people ruining coins and ripping people off toning them artificially and selling them on eBay. Even though I started coin collecting 15 years ago and learned the hard way, the one thing I know that you stress to people is education, that's the one thing I've learned in this hobby is that educating yourself before purchasing coin's especially Toned Coin's is the best way to not get taken advantage of
Thanks for the info Daniel! Yes, toning is technically damage. However, light or "natural" toning usually doesn't scare people off too much. I bought exactly 1 toned coin of which I hoped to be of bigger value, it to have my coin dealer tell me that it was artificial and that it was going to hurt the coin's value. I don't care for toning, but some people like it. Just be cautious about buying any coin with more than very light toning. Don't expect to get a lot of value out of a coin with a lot of toning. My opinion (for silver coins) is buy it for the silver content only if there's toning.
I saw a 2006 silver eagle in an NGC holder that was injected with gas to make artificial toning. The instructor of an NGC grading class showed to us in 2014. He said they had to buy it back to prove that the holder was messed with. NGC does a good job of taking photos of each coin during the grading process. Silver eagles generally don't tone rainbow colors in a short time period.
I have never believed that "toned" coins should have a premium. Not sure what marketing genius came up with it but he should win an award. Some tarnish/toning is attractive but I would much rather have original luster on a coin.
Toning and luster are two different things. You lose luster when you dip a toned coin. Also the "premium" is decided by the market and has more to do with eye appeal than with some mysterious marketing.
The silver doesn't rust it patinas. The difference is the oxidation growth is on the surface external to the silver, it's the other metals in the coin that " rust " ie an oxidation process that breaks down the metal internally
Never said silver rusts, but all of this happens with the same process of redox. Silver does tarnish and doesn't need other metals to turn black, but to have much color it does. I provided links to read all this. Thanks
@@CoinHELPu It's still a toned coin...You have a whole group of people who will collect coins like this...Then you have those who don't like the tone which is fine...Don't get them or make or get some and get huge profit from someone who does....
You missed my point, just because a coin looks silver and toned doesn't not make it a silver coin, not you're telling me not to rip people off. People like you need to stop, think and sleep on your replies before commenting.
Your channel is great man. You explain everything in such detail while keeping It interesting. I sense a slight bit of annoyance in your voice as if you’re frustrated that you have to explain this shit to us feeble minded people and i find that entertaining as all get out lol
Thanks but you're reading me wrong, I am not annoyed when I am doing videos. I actually love doing these videos. If I am upset I make that clear up front.
No I’m sorry I can tell you’re passionate man!! I guess it was specifically in the videos about how to spot bs coins and false identification of mint errors so your tone was appropriate 😂 don’t over think your approach on account of some internet troll newbie collector like me lol
Electro Anodization or just chemicals is most popular to tone trying to use heat on gold or silver is extremely risky to melting and is harder to neutralize a reaction... love the channel thanks. keep up the good work. 👑 😎 🙏
For some reason I just got the notification for this video even though it was posted 5 days ago.... odd. But anyways to the point of my comment. DAN, YOU ARE THE MAN!! Btw the toning of those morgans is absolutely stunning and beautiful, I'd never consider a rainbow toned coin as a damaged coin, dont care what other people say, some people love it and some people dont.
AT coins just look bad! The old albums and mint bags contained sulfur in the manufacturing process which is reactive with silver oxide and from my understanding the process for coin albums no longer use sulfur. Some really spectacular NT morgan dollars are out there. Hydrogen Sulfide found in eggs and farts and even minute quantities in air is reactive with silver oxidation. I've seen people who use egg yolks to tone a coin leaving it an unnatural ugly yellow. Cow farts have a high amount of hydrogen sulfide and were blamed for global warming. So I guess if you're around a farm with farting cows and eggs and a little heat and time you too can tone a coin that will fool the TPG'S, lol. Thank you for the the link to jhone and very good information on toned coins. Great Video!!
Excellent video! I've been saving all the toned ones.lol Thinking maybe I' ve got an experimental or one the plating was left off. You're so smart. Love your shows!!! Thank you for your help! Lol I want to keep them all!!! Just like Scrooge' lol
I love, love, love a rainbow toned coin. I don't care for any other type of toning whatsoever. Eye candy was an understatement! Wow! I think the name of that person is a play on words/letters for the singer Johnny Cash. They just switched the O and H in John, then comes the letter E and finally plain old Cash. I really enjoyed this video and I will take the time to go check out those pages. Thank you Daniel and you also have a great day.
The funniest thing is the grading services know less then us. Possible artificial toning, lol. On the other hand, per say that you dont like the toning, in most cases if you pay the piper a preservation service the coins as good as new again
It shouldn't even be called toning. That's putting lipstick on a pig. Toning is oxidation. Oxidation is a bad thing. Rust is oxidation too. All metals begin to oxidize when subjected to air. Anyone actively seeking toning in a coin is either ill informed or likes the oxidized look so much, they don't care. Personally I think toned coins look pretty awesome somtimes but... The bottom line is the premiums are too high because at the end of the day what you're really buying is an oxidized coin...
I have one of these silly painted Silver Eagles. I saw an example of one that was dipped in acetone for the purpose of removing the paint and it still didn't look good. I figured that it will still sell for the same price as any other and therefore left it as is.
My safe in Florida is a toning machine. Takes about a year or two but the hydrogen sulfide from the swamp air in the summer will tone silver coins fast.
Great video Daniel!!!! I'm about to search through previous videos and see what I can find that will help me. But I'm going to NH coin expo coin show in about a week. I'm setting up a table. If you are trying to come up with ideas for new videos..... I would really enjoy one about selling at shows... how to set up your table right, how to deal with/ trade with other dealers. The proper way to do things. Maybe ideas on pricing.. what you have found sells well, and what you look for and seem to get good deals on at shows. And I think ANACS is going to be there. Maybe you could address if it's worth it to do some grading... just some ideas and stuff I'd love to watch with this show coming up. And I get it if you feel that this is stuff u have already covered. I'm gonna search through your videos and see what's already there that will help me. This is just my second show... anyway, thanks again. Keep making great videos. Your a real asset to the numismatic community!👍👍👍
I almost took this as a personal attack,lol! Damage is a pretty strong word,lol.Don’t mess with an old man and his rainbow Morgans’,lol. I have bought junk that I knew some dummy baked, lol. We use those for belt buckles. I do have tubes from the 80s that look brand knew while grandma seems is polishing her spoons every 6 months,lol. Girls,lol. Thanks Daniel and I forgive you, I don’t think the ladies herd ya,lol.
I believe it's the silver is reacting with hydrogen sulfide or Sulfur dioxide in the air. it can react to oxygen as well. The silver oxide is just black the silver sulfide at various thickness produces color by thin film interference. I'm sure the varying amount of sulfur and oxygen exposure combined with temp fluctuations make each coins natural patina unique. If you kept a coin under an inert gas or in a vacuum chamber it would stop acquiring a patina. Removal of the atmosphere is the only way to stop the RXN. On a side note the reaction is a redox reaction as you said and a lot of redox RXN's are completely reversible. The great news is that this is one of them. You can change the oxide or sulfide layer back to shiny silver metal as if by magic reversing the damage by using chemistry with no rubbing buffing or polishing using everyday household items. get baking soda and a non metallic bowl. crumple a sheet of aluminum foil and uncrumple into a dish shape that can hold a coin or ring. place the foil and coin on top of the foil into the bowl. pour baking soda over the coin. boil water. pour boiling water over the coin until the baking soda is dissolved. it will fizz and bubble watch in awe as you just created a self cleaning battery. a galvanic cell battery of two metals. with the water and baking soda the electrolyte and the aluminum being the sacrificial anode and the silver the Cathode. The aluminum foil oxidizes giving up electrons while the silver is reduced back to lustrous silver metal atoms by accepting the electrons. flip coin and repeat applications of baking soda and boiling water until coin reaches desired restoration. warning do not rub coin. Coin must remain in contact with the foil for the RXN. Do not try to do it in a pot on the stove the container must be non metallic and boiling agitation will scratch the coin. You will smell Hydrogen sulfide or sulfur dioxide gas as the RXN proceeds it's the not so sweet smell of shinny Silver. LOL Rinse coin with distilled water to remove the remaining salt water. dry completely, light heat from a blow-dryer will ensure complete dryness. seal in container of choice. air tight preferred. With this method you can restore any silverwares jewelry coins etc. as well One could tone and untoned and re-tone coins to ones hearts contentment theoretically without losing any silver from the surface of the coin. barring contamination from dirt oils and waxes or other contamination. (I recommend acetone bath to remove any possible contamination prior to the restoration) I hope this is helpful for you to enjoy silver more. I do this to coins and rings when they tarnish on a regular works like magic. I am a Biology and Chemistry nerd who got into traditional B&W photography so I learned a lot about silver chemistry. Film uses silver bromide or silver iodide or combination to have reactivity to light. that's why original film is B&W and based on silver chemistry, silver oxide is grey to black. They call it the silver screen for a reason. LOL Hey I just decided to get into coin collecting and based on my knowledge of chemistry I have to wonder why aren't collectors using the vacuum bags and canisters for food preservation to remove the harmful atmosphere and preserve their coins? That's what I would do put them in the holders and then vacuum seal flat packs of 10 or 20. that way you can still see them on both sides and no continued oxidation ever. for stacks the canisters could hold lots of stacks atmosphere free.
Daniel I have a framed 20th century type set. Picture frame style glass & cardboard. The silver Washington quarter is glass side normal obv. Rev cardboard side very odd toning
Toning is just one on the list of things that is considered in graded coins. There is also depth, sharpness of the design and of coarse luster. I believe rainbow toning is caused by how the coin was stored. The old blue pop out tri-fold cardboard coin holders and purple Crown Royal whiskey bags for storage combined with summer heat and cold winters definitely causes toning.
@@CoinHELPu I recall you requesting comments at the end of your videos, so I finally leave a personal experience comment and this is your reply? I'm not new to coin collecting and have been doing it for 40+ years. Will be un-subbing from your channel. Thanks!
@@BeeWilliamsBuzz Do what? I even thanked you. I did post links so people can check out what causes toning. How was that bad? I just don't understand people. You can't be kind and nice online, people always misunderstanding something.
@@CoinHELPu Why are you telling me to refer to your resources when I'm telling you what I do know and am agreeing with you??? Maybe we can forget about this misunderstanding and start over...you game???
@@BeeWilliamsBuzz Yes, of course, but remember when I comment I am considering ALL who might read your comment. Thousands see these videos so I try to let people know what's in my videos or additional info on comments.
Some of my proof sets from the 90s are showing signs of toning and there still in mint cases. Cold,heat, moisture will affect a coin. Some are nice looking.but I don't like to see it on my coins !
Great info. Thanks Daniel. I have been assuming that natural toning was good if it looks good! I never thought of it as damage. I've got a mint state Ike dollar with every color of the rainbow and I am sure it is natural. I always thought it was kind of special and was thinking of having it graded -- but now -- maybe not.
It is scientifically but not considered damaged by the industry so it's either natural or artificial per the top grading companies. Pretty toning is desirable and some can carry a premium.
Toning, to me makes the coin look great! Hey if it looks good what's the problem? I mean, think about it, how many of you sun bathe????? That's called skin damage. But does that stop you? People even pay for it. So give me the toners I love em
Yes I Love a Natural light lavender on both sides. And a pastel color on both sides. I have a dime that somehow toned in a two by two flip. it was the prettiest light lavender color on both sides I have ever seen. and I found a buffalo nickel in my collection that had toned a beautiful pastel color on both sides even. I do agree with you the dark colors on coins I do not like. The ones I have are not silver. I like my silver to stay silver. 😂😂😂😂
Great video , I recently sent in 2 Morgan’s housed in the same album, one graded 63 ok , the other questionable color, I would like to send you the image of the suspect coin for your opinion
I once saw a slabbed coin graded like MS 60 that the owner accidently dropped in water. They "shook it off" and let it sit for months and roughly half the coin toned. He tried to sell it as a "half toned" coin. I offered half price. He called me a half wit. LOL
oh my god.....that was fucking hilarious
Meh that’s half funny
@@justinkeys523 funny thing is that I found a totally red silver washington at the bottom of a 12 foot dive several decades back. Chlorine is extremely harsh
I had plenty of chemistry classes in getting my degree in Chemical Engineering and agree with you that "toning" is damage, synonymous to rust on iron. However, some of this damage might look "pretty". Good truthful video Daniel.
I have dipped a couple cheaper silver coins such as a 1985 100FF I got for $10 because the toning didn't look good at all. After dipping, the cartwheel effect was back but you could see areas where the luster was less pronounced and these were the areas that were toned the most. I suppose that the silver sulfide is broken off of the surface of the coin and what remains is a scarred coin. You need to figure it out for yourself if it is worth it or not. In my cases, it was. I would not dip a Morgan with rim toning, for instance.
@@GardenerEarthGuy Silver does not rust. It is not oxydation.
@@GardenerEarthGuy What you see and qualifies as toning is usually some sort of silver compound due to the reaction to chemicals in the environment and, no, it is not oxydation. Silver sulfide is the most common compound you find.
@@GardenerEarthGuy Ag2O, Ag2S
@@pmh1nic Some people think that oxidation and rust, which chemically alters the surface, is beautiful. We cant change their minds.
Condition will sell a coin but eye appeal will sell it faster. Toning is a matter of individual preference. If you collect copper or bronze, for instance the Canadian Victoria large cent series, a grey toned or black uncirculated coin will knock your socks off.
If it's pretty it's toneing, if it's ugly it's tarnish! Lol thanks Daniel
Similar to its flirting if you like the person, sexual harassment if you don't.
This is a big grading topic that I am actually working on for an article. Toning is damage, but it also can form that protective layer. Proper grading slabs can protect the coin from toning further. NGC seems to have the best holder to protect against further toning. We should not turn collectors away from toned coins as every coin will eventually tone to a degree. As you said, some coins actually become majestic spectacular examples that can sell for many times more than an untoned example of the same coin in the same grade. I have been accumulating some of the finest known toned coins to illustrate my article. This article, when completed, will take many months to be published. In many cases, it may take a year or more before an accepted article is published. Great topic and video.
80sFreak100 Wow. Can’t wait to read the article if published.
It’s true I have a toned silver denarius of Emperor Hadrian with a brilliant rainbow toning around the portrait and it’s in an NGC slab graded AU 5/5 4/5 yet I’ve gotten offers far above what normal AU Hadrian denarius coins sell for.
People just seem to really like the rainbow background with bright white portrait more than a normal bright white all over denarius.
Kindly share the link of the article if available online.
This is the most detailed video I have seen on coin toning and supported by facts... awesome... thanks Daniel.
Thank you and you're welcome!
I've had a coin grade Genuine Details Questionable color, I put it through the restoration process at PCGS while they still had the coin so I wouldn't have to wait for it to come back and me resend it. After that it graded MS64 PL. It was an 1887 Morgan. Thanks for another great video this was informative.
I like your videos over others for the simple reasons that your not on here flaunting what you have, but rather to inform the general community and beginner
Was looking on Ebay last night for Morgans and saw so many that were clearly just hit with a blowtorch. Sad, really.
You're the best. Everytime I have a question in mind about coins, you come up out of the blue and give the right answer. Thanks again and again an again.
Thank you!
Right Frank!? Daniel is an absolute MONSTER when it comes to educational information for the coin collecting community. I was just wondering about toning last night, in fact it was brought up in my livestream and someone asked how it happens and I had to tell them I didnt know cause it's the truth, I don't know. Now thanks to Daniel I'm fully educated on how to happens/works.
Naturally toned coins are absolutely beautiful
I have a Vatican silver 500 lira, it has toned beautifully. Good educational video, thank you.
Thank you
I like that the linked page makes sure to boldy state that silver sulphide is "NOT" oxidation, when it literally is. Oxidation (oxidation state) is the summed charge state of an ion, it doesn't mean it's a result of oxygen, just a reaction from an element with an ion to change form and balance the charge out. Ag2S is "silver (1) sulphide" -> that (1) is the 1st of 3 oxide states that silver sulphide can be in - a properly performed reduction process will not (can not) damage the silver, as it is simply resetting the charge, converting the Ag2S to Ag(1+) and sulpher gas (if in solution, sulphuric acid).
Then:
'haze is silver oxide' - no, the thinnest and thickest portion of oxidation both yield haze as they produce interference above and below the visible spectrum - if it were infact silver oxide, all you'd need to do is heat it to 200C and the oxide will reduce back into elemental silver... literally if you somehow find yourself with an actually oxidized bit of silver... 5 seconds with any lighter and it will be sparkling bright and clean again.
Thank you for the awesome video and advice on how to further educate ourselves about numismatics!
You're welcome
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
I Love toned coins, great video Dan.👍
I enjoyed watching and learning from this video. I have said it before and will say again, thank you for all the good information you provide the coin collecting community!
Thank you and you're welcome
I avoid toned silver. I like patina on pennies though. Personal choice.
I love toned coins. Natural coins are beautiful. Artificial toned coins can be caused by hard boiled eggs smashed and placed in a sealed container with the coin and left there for a couple of days.
Toning is damage of some kind no mater how you twist it. A coin put in a folder and gets paper toning is damage from sulfur or some other chemical. If someone wants "eye candy" on their coin that is fine. I don't want excess toning on my coins, but this being said i don't want a coin that has bee dipped either. I can not see paying extra money for toning but do not have a problem with anyone that does. With the extra value put on toned coins you then
get into the problem of faked toning. I do a lot of metal detecting and come across copper coins with many shades of green patina. Is this damage? Yes it is but that is how i like to find my copper coins. Each to his own, but fake toning only hurts the hobby. Very nice thought out video. Thank you.
Agreed, I love Toning because it produces such beautiful colors but I can totally see it being a turn off for some. Artificial Toning is the worst and only benefits towards greed
great teaching video Honest Dan the kids loved it Mrs KS THANKS for doing it
Agree with your logic that any toning is technically damage. Great video.
Silver forms a patina when exposed to atmospheric sulphur. The patina forms on the surface and can protect the silver from further exposure deeper down. The toning is composed of silver sulfide crystals which allows light to pass through. Different colors will be visible depending on the thickness of the crystal layer.
Toning via electrolysis or heat stress, is another story. I would avoid both.
I love toned rainbow coins. I have a beautiful collection of them. I don’t care if they are considered damaged or not. Many different kinds of collectors out there. I got my first rainbow toned coin in change one day. Been hooked ever since. I just bought a beautiful collection of state quarters sitting in a book. Beautiful.
Daniel you just keep coming thru for use with useful and informative new videos. I thank you my friend. Keep up the great job. I will say that I have seen some "WOW" toning . Have a good day to one and all.
Thank you
My Mrs loves hunting toned coins. She really enjoyed this video. Thank you
Interesting Video! I love the natural toning of those Morgan Dollars . Simply Beautiful!! To me natural is the best. Thanks 🙏🏾 Daniel 💥👍👍👍
I tried commenting once but something went wrong. Wanted to say thank you so much for all your advice and presenting the reality of all the overhype out there concerning the hobby and setting some folks up for failure. Your straight to the point and lay it out there for folks whether they like it or not. Your knowledge is second to none. Your recommendations for books to read, sites to log into, etc. is very much appreciated I am sure by all your subscribers including myself. Take care.
Thank you. I appreciate that
I like my toned coins, what ever people want to call it or how they got that way.
Except those Way Hippie Rainbow style looking coins.
Nice article 🙂
Indeed damaged can be pretty or even desirable to a small crowd. I for instance LOVE Shipreck Effect but have no doubt it is damaged.
Love the toned coins. I have a Morgan that is light pink-lavender with gold undertones. Stunning!!!
I love your videos. You are a Gem for the hobby. Keep up the good work
Natural toning does not rub off..
Yes it will, but it takes a bit of time.
@@CoinHELPu Daniel, still watchin ur vid, but does toning reversal damage the coin? I guess eZest does this chemically but I guess ur aware of electro-chemically doing it with aluminum?
@@Car1Sagan yes I am aware, but this still alters the coin is a chemical reaction.
@@CoinHELPu so u would or wouldn't recommend toning reversal with eZest or electro-chemically with aluminum?
@@Car1Sagan I use ezest but aluminum and baking soda too
Thanks for this. PCI-toning was not known to me. I only have a couple of PCI-graded coins, as I have generally avoided that company. One of my 1949-D Franklins is in a PCI holder, which I bought at a show so many years ago because it had striking toning developing: light magenta and light lime green and yellow. Now I know it was from the holder encapsulating it. I hope that doesn't hurt its value. Still, it is now a curiosity. BTW, and I'm sure you all know this: Album toning develops from the periphery inwards, but also on the reverse more pronouncedly than the obverse. Coins once owned by collectors of old will generally NOT have the same level of toning on the two sides. Now early silver commemoratives if they were stored in their mailers or mounts may be really black and/or yellow encrusted from the sulfur in the cardboard and paper on one side (reverse, usually), and yet fairly brilliant on the inner regions of the obverse. Strongly black-toned coins few people like but deep yellow may be attractive. Still, they are completely original coins. Kinda stinks that people shun them so. These make the argument for some form of professional treatment/dipping/ restoration, but I'm not the one to do it. Also, more often than not the coin may be worth $100, the professional service might cost $50 and the result may cause regret so it seems just not worth it.
One moral of the story, "Don't mess with Mother Nature!!"
You can say before the coin is even ejected from the coining chamber that the metals themselves can be compromised.
I would really consider tarnish damage and artificial toning damage but I’ve seen many beautiful toned coins.
Cheers for this vid.
I agree toning is damage. Eventually turn black then start flaking outter surface layer. I never jumped on that wagon of paying more for toned coins
I think I mentioned that I had been block by a Facebook group for saying that a person who thought they had a rare coin should take it to a REPUTABLE coin dealer, the admin took umbrage and said HE was an expert then blocked me. This same Facebook group had a person routinely posting their artificially toned (by heat) coins. Toning IS damage but some times it looks real nice. Can it be safely removed - NOT NORMALLY. Thanks Daniel.
William there are many prima donnas out there thinking they are coin sages yet allowing their buddies to post garbage. They are deceivers. Stick with CoinHelpU, Daniel is the real deal.
The toning was captivating. Your grasp of the English language is refreshing. I appreciate that you stated “for all intents and purposes” instead of the butchered slang ... intensive purposes. Thanks once again for the entertaining videos!
You caught me on a good day.
Damage or not, i LOVE beautifully toned coins...
I personally enjoy toned coins as well. However, there are some people who highly dislike them and want all the coins in their collections to be "frosty white." If I list coins on eBay that might even possibly have toning to them I make sure to add that to the description so buyers can't try to say I deceived them.
@@josepchwill1304 im not sure how people wouldnt like beautifully toned coins, how anyone could look at something like the Aurora Borealis collection and not be amazed is beyond me...
@@Motherofmusic I've seen that collection. I don't know why people wouldn't like that either. That collection is beautiful.
I have found a Beautiful toned coin. It's so beautiful that I know it has to be natural and it's my best toning coin!!!
DANNY...i am STALKER girl. I certainly hope I never offend you as i am "silly , HOWEVER serious about the knowledge you provide to i...personally. THANK YOU. I am not tech smart...
I REALLY low YOUR videos though. I like you cause you can make a FUNNY out of some things. Thad what's up. ❤× infinity post script....i am still stalker. Your COMPLETELY safe. And to the THUMBS down people....oh lord....tech s-cks. Delete the negativity. THANK YOU. Truly your friend...margaret❤
Thank you for the video, I have been waiting for you to upload one to discuss toning. Sadly there are so many people ruining coins and ripping people off toning them artificially and selling them on eBay. Even though I started coin collecting 15 years ago and learned the hard way, the one thing I know that you stress to people is education, that's the one thing I've learned in this hobby is that educating yourself before purchasing coin's especially Toned Coin's is the best way to not get taken advantage of
Yes and thank you!
Thanks for the info Daniel! Yes, toning is technically damage. However, light or "natural" toning usually doesn't scare people off too much. I bought exactly 1 toned coin of which I hoped to be of bigger value, it to have my coin dealer tell me that it was artificial and that it was going to hurt the coin's value. I don't care for toning, but some people like it. Just be cautious about buying any coin with more than very light toning. Don't expect to get a lot of value out of a coin with a lot of toning. My opinion (for silver coins) is buy it for the silver content only if there's toning.
Thanks and you're welcome
I saw a 2006 silver eagle in an NGC holder that was injected with gas to make artificial toning. The instructor of an NGC grading class showed to us in 2014. He said they had to buy it back to prove that the holder was messed with. NGC does a good job of taking photos of each coin during the grading process. Silver eagles generally don't tone rainbow colors in a short time period.
Yes, i've see that before.
It may be damage strictly speaking but it can also increase the coins value depending on the coin in question
Hello There Daniel,
Thanks! There are a lot of Coin Drs changing patina to improve their VALUES. Good cause and effect discussion on toning! 😉
I have never believed that "toned" coins should have a premium. Not sure what marketing genius came up with it but he should win an award. Some tarnish/toning is attractive but I would much rather have original luster on a coin.
Toning and luster are two different things. You lose luster when you dip a toned coin. Also the "premium" is decided by the market and has more to do with eye appeal than with some mysterious marketing.
The silver doesn't rust it patinas. The difference is the oxidation growth is on the surface external to the silver, it's the other metals in the coin that " rust " ie an oxidation process that breaks down the metal internally
Never said silver rusts, but all of this happens with the same process of redox. Silver does tarnish and doesn't need other metals to turn black, but to have much color it does. I provided links to read all this. Thanks
@@CoinHELPu wasn't arguing just adding what little I know
@@mikepict9011 I understand but silver will tarnish and that tarnish forms a patina
I prefer colored toned coins. Atleast if they're toned you know it's silver.
Plated silver coins can tone as well.
@@CoinHELPu It's still a toned coin...You have a whole group of people who will collect coins like this...Then you have those who don't like the tone which is fine...Don't get them or make or get some and get huge profit from someone who does....
You missed my point, just because a coin looks silver and toned doesn't not make it a silver coin, not you're telling me not to rip people off. People like you need to stop, think and sleep on your replies before commenting.
Your channel is great man. You explain everything in such detail while keeping
It interesting. I sense a slight bit of annoyance in your voice as if you’re frustrated that you have to explain this shit to us feeble minded people and i find that entertaining as all get out lol
Thanks but you're reading me wrong, I am not annoyed when I am doing videos. I actually love doing these videos. If I am upset I make that clear up front.
No I’m sorry I can tell you’re passionate man!! I guess it was specifically in the videos about how to spot bs coins and false identification of mint errors so your tone was appropriate 😂 don’t over think your approach on account of some internet troll newbie collector like me lol
You’re literally my go to reference
I always learn so much from your videos ! Thank you so very much. Appreciate each video
I can't believe how much people are paying on eBay for chemical toning on American Silver Eagles.
Electro Anodization or just chemicals is most popular to tone trying to use heat on gold or silver is extremely risky to melting and is harder to neutralize a reaction... love the channel thanks. keep up the good work.
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Very instructive video. Thank you for your content.
Once again, excellent information! 👏 Thanks Daniel.
Thank you
For some reason I just got the notification for this video even though it was posted 5 days ago.... odd. But anyways to the point of my comment. DAN, YOU ARE THE MAN!! Btw the toning of those morgans is absolutely stunning and beautiful, I'd never consider a rainbow toned coin as a damaged coin, dont care what other people say, some people love it and some people dont.
Humm...
AT coins just look bad! The old albums and mint bags contained sulfur in the manufacturing process which is reactive with silver oxide and from my understanding the process for coin albums no longer use sulfur. Some really spectacular NT morgan dollars are out there. Hydrogen Sulfide found in eggs and farts and even minute quantities in air is reactive with silver oxidation. I've seen people who use egg yolks to tone a coin leaving it an unnatural ugly yellow. Cow farts have a high amount of hydrogen sulfide and were blamed for global warming. So I guess if you're around a farm with farting cows and eggs and a little heat and time you too can tone a coin that will fool the TPG'S, lol. Thank you for the the link to jhone and very good information on toned coins. Great Video!!
Thank you
Excellent video! I've been saving all the toned ones.lol Thinking maybe I' ve got an experimental or one the plating was left off. You're so smart. Love your shows!!! Thank you for your help! Lol I want to keep them all!!! Just like Scrooge' lol
I like the light, natural toning. Makes the details stand out more. Not a huge fan of rainbow toning.
You told all about toning very well.Many thanks sir, love from India
Plastic is made from oil which will cause toning
Thanks I've toned some 10 oz silver bars that came out outstanding but that was just for fun with liver of silver......
Well collected, constructed information.
I'm curious to your thoughts pertaining to " alchemy"
THANKS FOR THE HELP DAN.
You're welcome
Theres is Good Toning and Bad Toning. It depends on the Coin. How rare it is also. Theres is alot kids playing with Chemicals out there
I love, love, love a rainbow toned coin. I don't care for any other type of toning whatsoever.
Eye candy was an understatement! Wow!
I think the name of that person is a play on words/letters for the singer Johnny Cash. They just switched the O and H in John, then comes the letter E and finally plain old Cash.
I really enjoyed this video and I will take the time to go check out those pages. Thank you Daniel and you also have a great day.
Good video. Thanks Daniel
Wow I never even knew this existed until I got a 1963 1 Krone Danmark with a rainbow on it.
The funniest thing is the grading services know less then us. Possible artificial toning, lol. On the other hand, per say that you dont like the toning, in most cases if you pay the piper a preservation service the coins as good as new again
It shouldn't even be called toning. That's putting lipstick on a pig. Toning is oxidation. Oxidation is a bad thing. Rust is oxidation too. All metals begin to oxidize when subjected to air. Anyone actively seeking toning in a coin is either ill informed or likes the oxidized look so much, they don't care. Personally I think toned coins look pretty awesome somtimes but... The bottom line is the premiums are too high because at the end of the day what you're really buying is an oxidized coin...
The mnemonic for the redox or oxidation reaction is
OIL RIG.
Oxidation is loss of electrons
Reduction is gain of electrons
It is much more complicated than that and nothing is actually lost, it's more of a transfer. A chemical reaction.
The law of entropy is tough on all collectors.
I have one of these silly painted Silver Eagles. I saw an example of one that was dipped in acetone for the purpose of removing the paint and it still didn't look good. I figured that it will still sell for the same price as any other and therefore left it as is.
Very good Daniel. Sad to see that 1 Morgan' dollar that looked rainbow but unnatural.
Thanks for the video...........
My safe in Florida is a toning machine. Takes about a year or two but the hydrogen sulfide from the swamp air in the summer will tone silver coins fast.
thank you for the information its good to know.
Thanks Daniel for the video good job
Great educational insights!!!
Great video Daniel!!!! I'm about to search through previous videos and see what I can find that will help me. But I'm going to NH coin expo coin show in about a week. I'm setting up a table. If you are trying to come up with ideas for new videos..... I would really enjoy one about selling at shows... how to set up your table right, how to deal with/ trade with other dealers. The proper way to do things. Maybe ideas on pricing.. what you have found sells well, and what you look for and seem to get good deals on at shows. And I think ANACS is going to be there. Maybe you could address if it's worth it to do some grading... just some ideas and stuff I'd love to watch with this show coming up. And I get it if you feel that this is stuff u have already covered. I'm gonna search through your videos and see what's already there that will help me. This is just my second show... anyway, thanks again. Keep making great videos. Your a real asset to the numismatic community!👍👍👍
Thanks and good luck. I have covered most of these topics in my videos. Check out my playlist on selling coins.
Your husky is so funny. I subscribed to her channel
Thank you
I almost took this as a personal attack,lol! Damage is a pretty strong word,lol.Don’t mess with an old man and his rainbow Morgans’,lol. I have bought junk that I knew some dummy baked, lol. We use those for belt buckles. I do have tubes from the 80s that look brand knew while grandma seems is polishing her spoons every 6 months,lol.
Girls,lol. Thanks Daniel and I forgive you, I don’t think the ladies herd ya,lol.
LOL. I had to get attention
I believe it's the silver is reacting with hydrogen sulfide or Sulfur dioxide in the air. it can react to oxygen as well. The silver oxide is just black the silver sulfide at various thickness produces color by thin film interference. I'm sure the varying amount of sulfur and oxygen exposure combined with temp fluctuations make each coins natural patina unique. If you kept a coin under an inert gas or in a vacuum chamber it would stop acquiring a patina. Removal of the atmosphere is the only way to stop the RXN.
On a side note the reaction is a redox reaction as you said and a lot of redox RXN's are completely reversible. The great news is that this is one of them. You can change the oxide or sulfide layer back to shiny silver metal as if by magic reversing the damage by using chemistry with no rubbing buffing or polishing using everyday household items. get baking soda and a non metallic bowl. crumple a sheet of aluminum foil and uncrumple into a dish shape that can hold a coin or ring. place the foil and coin on top of the foil into the bowl. pour baking soda over the coin. boil water. pour boiling water over the coin until the baking soda is dissolved. it will fizz and bubble watch in awe as you just created a self cleaning battery. a galvanic cell battery of two metals. with the water and baking soda the electrolyte and the aluminum being the sacrificial anode and the silver the Cathode. The aluminum foil oxidizes giving up electrons while the silver is reduced back to lustrous silver metal atoms by accepting the electrons. flip coin and repeat applications of baking soda and boiling water until coin reaches desired restoration. warning do not rub coin. Coin must remain in contact with the foil for the RXN. Do not try to do it in a pot on the stove the container must be non metallic and boiling agitation will scratch the coin. You will smell Hydrogen sulfide or sulfur dioxide gas as the RXN proceeds it's the not so sweet smell of shinny Silver. LOL
Rinse coin with distilled water to remove the remaining salt water. dry completely, light heat from a blow-dryer will ensure complete dryness. seal in container of choice. air tight preferred.
With this method you can restore any silverwares jewelry coins etc. as well One could tone and untoned and re-tone coins to ones hearts contentment theoretically without losing any silver from the surface of the coin. barring contamination from dirt oils and waxes or other contamination. (I recommend acetone bath to remove any possible contamination prior to the restoration) I hope this is helpful for you to enjoy silver more. I do this to coins and rings when they tarnish on a regular works like magic.
I am a Biology and Chemistry nerd who got into traditional B&W photography so I learned a lot about silver chemistry. Film uses silver bromide or silver iodide or combination to have reactivity to light. that's why original film is B&W and based on silver chemistry, silver oxide is grey to black. They call it the silver screen for a reason. LOL
Hey I just decided to get into coin collecting and based on my knowledge of chemistry I have to wonder why aren't collectors using the vacuum bags and canisters for food preservation to remove the harmful atmosphere and preserve their coins? That's what I would do put them in the holders and then vacuum seal flat packs of 10 or 20. that way you can still see them on both sides and no continued oxidation ever. for stacks the canisters could hold lots of stacks atmosphere free.
Great video
Yes I agree but I do love the natural toned coins 😍
Thanks for sharing this video
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Thank you good sir I will read :)
Wow really awesome video!!! ^w^
GREAT information. Thank you
Daniel I have a framed 20th century type set. Picture frame style glass & cardboard. The silver Washington quarter is glass side normal obv. Rev cardboard side very odd toning
Keep shipping peanuts away from your silver coins . The chemicals in them can cause toning.
Toning is just one on the list of things that is considered in graded coins. There is also depth, sharpness of the design and of coarse luster. I believe rainbow toning is caused by how the coin was stored. The old blue pop out tri-fold cardboard coin holders and purple Crown Royal whiskey bags for storage combined with summer heat and cold winters definitely causes toning.
I provide several resources so people can check out what causes and what toning is. Thanks!
@@CoinHELPu I recall you requesting comments at the end of your videos, so I finally leave a personal experience comment and this is your reply? I'm not new to coin collecting and have been doing it for 40+ years. Will be un-subbing from your channel. Thanks!
@@BeeWilliamsBuzz Do what? I even thanked you. I did post links so people can check out what causes toning. How was that bad? I just don't understand people. You can't be kind and nice online, people always misunderstanding something.
@@CoinHELPu Why are you telling me to refer to your resources when I'm telling you what I do know and am agreeing with you??? Maybe we can forget about this misunderstanding and start over...you game???
@@BeeWilliamsBuzz Yes, of course, but remember when I comment I am considering ALL who might read your comment. Thousands see these videos so I try to let people know what's in my videos or additional info on comments.
Some of my proof sets from the 90s are showing signs of toning and there still in mint cases. Cold,heat, moisture will affect a coin. Some are nice looking.but I don't like to see it on my coins !
Great info. Thanks Daniel. I have been assuming that natural toning was good if it looks good! I never thought of it as damage. I've got a mint state Ike dollar with every color of the rainbow and I am sure it is natural. I always thought it was kind of special and was thinking of having it graded -- but now -- maybe not.
It is scientifically but not considered damaged by the industry so it's either natural or artificial per the top grading companies. Pretty toning is desirable and some can carry a premium.
Toning, to me makes the coin look great! Hey if it looks good what's the problem? I mean, think about it, how many of you sun bathe????? That's called skin damage. But does that stop you? People even pay for it. So give me the toners I love em
I have a 1962 Balboa nicely toned but it has black dots on the coin what could of caused that
Don't know, depends on how it was stored, maybe someone sneezed on it.
Yes I Love a Natural light lavender on both sides. And a pastel color on both sides. I have a dime that somehow toned in a two by two flip. it was the prettiest light lavender color on both sides I have ever seen. and I found a buffalo nickel in my collection that had toned a beautiful pastel color on both sides even. I do agree with you the dark colors on coins I do not like. The ones I have are not silver. I like my silver to stay silver.
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Great video , I recently sent in 2 Morgan’s housed in the same album, one graded 63 ok , the other questionable color, I would like to send you the image of the suspect coin for your opinion
You can post it in my help community but images are not good enough for this type of thing
Lot of artificial toning coins on eBay
Yes there is
PCGS HAS SOME TONING GRADED AT AU67.