If you look carefully, you might spot a disused Central line station, Hell Infernum, long since abandoned because Satan deemed the Central line too hot even for him.
Many years ago, a fried of mine described his experience on the New York subway: you are always afraid the carriages will fall apart before reaching the next station - but they do have air conditioning.
The carriages that he described were subway trains that had ceiling fan and were rebuilt with air conditioning. The oldest trains that were rebuilt were made in 1964, the R32s
@@adonaiyah2196 Much of New York is built on solid rock - granite. So the subway lines are just below the surface making it easy to dissipate the hot air out to the atmosphere - you've seen the gratings on the streets?. (It's also the reason you can build massive tall buildings without massive deep foundations.) London is built in a river valley on clay. So the deep lines (Victoria, Central, Piccadilly etc.) are much deeper than New York and surrounded by insulating clay as Jago said. This makes it much harder to get rid of the hot air. The problem could have been addressed if AC had been considered when the lines were originally constructed but 100-120 years ago AC was in its infancy. Plus the heat problem on the Underground only really exists when we get a summer heatwave and we all know they don't last long...
The carriages are really not that bad. It’s just that you’re guaranteed to meet at least one er, very eccentric person on every train. Good old NYC - it’s never boring.
I worked on the “cooling the tube” programme at Oxford Circus. It was an interesting challenge. The system is essentially air handling units suspended above the track on each platform. They are connected to two large chillers located on the roof of a TfL owned building above the station (visible in the shot of Oxford Circus station at the end of the vid). It is very difficult to work efficiently in the small window of work you have in the middle of the night. So the whole process takes a very long time and costs an extremely large amount of money. You also have the added problem of dealing both with the LUL and the TfL who are difficult at the best of times.
Question as a layman: Would platform screens help with this? If a barrier existed , would it push up the air? What if the platforms had these platform doors, AND a a door blocking the train from leaving the station, that also acts as a way to deflect the air UP into a chute somewhere? Maybe even some suction fans above? If the next train pushes your hot air somewhere else and it’s contained to each station it could work, right? So rather than the piston effect affecting the whole line, you deal with the smaller sub problem and deal with it in 30+ repetitions. There may be some health and safety hazards associated with blocking the train’s path with something but I think it could be a good idea.
@@KiLLJoYCZcams the trouble is that the train (and it’s passengers) generate heat throughout the network i.e. not just at the platforms. And even platform screens, such as the ones on the Jubilee Line, would not prevent the heat from eventually spreading in to the platform space. In an ideal world you would have regular supply and extract shafts that would remove the hot air and replace with cool air. It would be even better if the hot air could be used for something useful such as heating the buildings above the line.
Sadly those chillers appear to have been off for the past few years, particularly on the hottest days. Green Park also has them. They are great when they’re running
@@bjoernaltmann It is a shame if they have been turned off. There was a problem with vibrations from the chilled water pipework transmitting in to the building that housed the chillers. Perhaps that’s why they are off.
The irony is that rather than hell heating up the tube, the effect is actually the other way. After a hundred years the earth around the Central Line tunnels is now 10-15 degrees hotter than it was when the tunnels were built, something that's actually caused some structural problems as the London Clay dries out and contracts. Nothing serious and easily fixed with a quick squirt of concrete in the right place, but an interesting extra wrinkle in the struggle to keep the tube cool.
@@simontist but air conditioning the trains is only going to make the tunnels and platforms hotter. The heat needs to be removed from the system entirely.
I remember being in a carriage that stopped for about a 10 mins between Chancery Lane and Bank back in the mid 90s. It was mid-August, the train was packed. It was one of the worst experiences in my life...
I lived through the hot Toronto summer when the Bloor line's trains' air conditioning failed, but I have never been as uncomfortable as I have been on the Central Line.
Had the same experience. I am not claustrophobic, but when you are in a small area and feel the heat creeping up on you, it is not a pleasant feeling. Someone kept pressing the emergency call button to the driver, probably a panic attack, and he keep coming back that there is nothing he can do until we get to the station.
@@johnfitzgerald7618 In the Toronto case, the end cars of the train were cooled...because the drivers (one alternately acting as guard at the other end of the train) refused to drive the trains otherwise. Union edict, and also required under Ontario health and safety regs, rightly so. Also the Toronto cars are a larger loading gauge than most BR trains! Even packed in like sardines, the tin is a hell of a lot bigger, and taller. There's lots of space overhead. I live in Toronto, btw. I'm a Dual.
@@stephensaines7100 Thanks for the information, Stephen. Makes you wonder about the British health and safety laws. As for the height of the trains, I'm 6' 2" and in the old days spent most of my time on the Underground stooped over. Many of the cars are still difficult for people over 6'. And that's no great height. Of course I banged my head a lot of times getting out of the old PCC streetcars.
As an Australian who has spent many a year living in the UK (London and Newcastle) I can promise you that an Australian summer is infinitely preferable to a British summer. The way Britain seems to retain heat and is unable to disperse it results in hell on earth. That said, an Australian winter will put hair on your chest. You've not experienced freezing cold misery until you've spent a winter in Melbourne. The British design traditions we inherited were convinced Australia is always hot when it quite simply isn't.
The idea Melbourne is cold is a joke all the norther cities of Australia throws at Melbourne, because of how much Melbournians like to proclaim they're the real city of Australia. It's not _biting_ cold like the British winter, it just goes as low as 5C during the winters.
In the summer during hot weather, I used to go into the few smoking carriages, as in the heat I would rather smell cigarette smoke than various odours which permeated the non smoking carriages. I fainted once and went two stops before it was noticed. That's because we were so packed in like sardines, the other tube travellers were literally keeping me standing! Clearly, not much has changed. Thank you for yet another interesting video on your channel 👍
Wow! I've never passed out, but I did have a horrendous nosebleed on the Bakerloo line going to work. It's the worst nosebleed I've ever had in my life. I tried to stop it discreetly but blood was gushing everywhere and getting onto my bag and clothes. The lady sitting next to me even got up and moved to another seat! Thankfully other passengers were much kinder, offering me tissues and advice. To avoid further embarrassment (and potential haemorrhage), I got out at Marylebone and sought help from a TFL staff member. They were horrified at the sight of me, but so helpful and kind!
Can someone explain this comment to me? Edit: On second thoughts I think I understand: If Britain were in the EU, their livestock laws would have meant a cooler tube. Interesting idea.
Never use a carriahge with a driver's cab in it - there is sod all ventilation. Thanks to Jago for explaining why those vents at St Pauls offer a little relief. I wondered why the air was a bit cooler.
I remember being grateful for the bit of air coming though that slidey window thing up at the front of the old tube cars when I rode them a couple years ago. I definitely felt quite claustrophobic and short of breath on some of those old trains. Luckily as a tourist I was always travelling off peak so the trains were never crammed full. I can't imagine how bad that would be at peak times.
01:05 The heat was caused by the underground railways disturbing the devil? How can that be? A lot of the lines were Charles Yerkes' idea in the first place, so I doubt he'd find them disturbing. Or am I confusing different characters in this series? (And the mid 2020s is looking like the next chance most of us outside the UK will get to visit London, if one is being optimistic.)
✝️ - An overly christen philosphor had that depiction/reference to the spiritual realm = that is hell: the devil - Satan 👹, his demons/demonic minions, the fire & brinestone with the spirituality dead/goats in it, is thought to be, depicted/referenced being in the middle of the earth - when I, a saved Pentecostal Christian refer to hell, I point to the floor, when at church, the pastor is preaching at the lectern, when referring to hell he lowers his hand and points to the floor. Same thing with heaven; where God the father, Jesus Christ, the angels and the saved Christians/sheep are, is depicted/referenced to being above us = when referring to heaven I point to the sky/ceiling, same thing with the pastor at church. Yes, I know you would screech in the replies/comments to this comment, about the rock, tectonic plates, magma, outer & inner cores, in the centre of the earth, and the sky - above the blue colour, satellites, space junk, outer space and the moon… I know about that. what God has also said in the Bible that the first/current heaven is also referred to as the unseen state = as it is spiritual we can’t physically see it, and that we are in the physical realm that unfortunately is sin cursed. God also said that St John was given a vision by an angel of a description of a new heaven and earth, that the current one isn’t interesting - when Jesus was crucified on the cross, he referred to the current heaven as “paradise” to the the thief next to him, but the new one is described to us so we can look forward to it 🥰
With air conditioning the heat has to go somewhere, so cooler trains means hotter platforms. Perhaps they could market the Central Line as a travelling sauna?
It’s funny because everyone dances to that song and thinks it’s happy but it’s actually a pretty serious song about being on relationship that you’re not actually happy. The lyric “You don’t hear me, you just wanna dance” shows that! Have a great day guys!
Great video Jago. The new trains will be Air Cooled not Air Coditioned as Air Con on the trains would make the tunnels even warmer as there is nowhere for the aircon waste heat to go.
@@JasperJanssen basically they have an air circulation system in the train which will move air around but its not air conditioned. If you watch the new tube for london video on youtube it shows what it is.
@@stevewalsh1987 Well frankly that sounds like smoke and mirrors. Underground trains have been air cooled for years through opening side windows and carriage end windows - which will disappear in the new trains. I suspect the air cooling referred to in the video is really air conditioning. Which is fine until it breaks down, or you have a total power failure. Then it really would be hell underground, possibly fatal. Ever been in a BR Class 158 with aircon broken on a hot day?
No idea but i imagine most of the speed is scrubbed off with big resistors wired to the motors acting as generators. More than willing to be proved wrong !
@@mrb.5610 it puts the energy back into the rails as electricity - hence regenerative, it re-generates. if it was using resistors it would just be creating a similar amount of heat electrically instead of via friction.
@@andyharding1514 1992 stocks use rheostatic, friction AND regenerative braking - so yes, the 1992 stocks do generate heat through resistor banks. On the Waterloo and City fleet, the regenerative braking's actually been disabled.
@@danlastname9002 I think you'd best check your reference on that. DC series motors can't regeneratively brake, at least not in the way you posit. The sub-station feeding the motors can, with choppers inserted, but best read this: Tunnel vision: the challenge of cooling the London Underground It carries five million passengers a day and is integral to the smooth running of the capital - but could the Tube also allow developers to tap a huge secondary heat source? Andy Pearson investigates Posted in May 2018 www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tunnel-vision/
As someone that used to commute from Ealing Broadway to Gants Hill I can confirm that even in winter the trains can be hot, in summer they are often unbearable.
Problem with air-conditioned tube trains is that it cooks those on the platform instead. Regenerative braking definitely good though moving from fluorescent to LED probably overstated
Hipsters probably associate St Paul's with oppression some how, they'd only go there to protest. The hipsters architecture of choice is a shack serving all things soy.
@@BenG1874 I applaud you for your failure to understand that my comment was intended in jest. My reasons for moving are multidimensional, and trust me, the central line is faaaar down that list.
Believe me, Caerphilly to Newport might be cooler, but is still just as crammed as the LU - TfL rail here deliver a poor service in peak times, tends to be 2 carriages on an old Class 150
A very cool video… Won’t an air conditioner train just be pumping warm air into the tunnels though and unlike the sub service lines doesn’t have the space / ventilation to dissipate the hot air?
The implementation of regenerative braking means that the heat output of the new trains with air conditioning will actually be smaller than the current trains without AC. They are also planning on introducing some station and tunnel cooling schemes to lower platform temperatures. See more in this feasibility report, page 26: content.tfl.gov.uk/ntfl-feasibility-report.pdf
@@Rebasepoiss From your reference: [This would enable less heat to be discharged into the tunnels and Underground stations, which would potentially reduce the need for infrastructure cooling and/or reduce temperatures] The heat has to go somewhere, and this is just pumping it into the tunnels, not converting it into other forms of energy that can be used productively.
I used to stand by the door that connects the carriages, with the window wide open, getting blasted by cool air. But I had to fight for it. There would be people standing there with jackets on and the window closed. Absolute maniacs.
Very interesting - especially the bit about how much the train brakes heat up their surroundings. I always regarded the deep level tubes as infernal regions, though, and am very grateful I rarely need to use them these days.
My abiding memory of the Central line in hot weather is hopping from Oxford Circus to St. Paul's. It got packed. Holding onto a grip, there was this guy doing the same but he was wearing a t-shirt. His armpit was an inch or so from my nose. The smell was one thing but my nose started to itch. I tried wriggling my nose but failed and then started to sniff. Never been so glad to get off a tube train before.
I'm no fan of the central line and that's the cold truth. In the days of 'shaft' and the 'three degrees', I was radiant about the central line, but these days I'm on the Pick-a-chilly line to Thermos Grove.
Back in 1989, l was on the bakerloo trying to get to paddington. This was part of my daily commute. The old stock train halted just before Regents Park. It was the evening rush hour, mid summer and it was standing room only. Plenty of back packers ready to turn round and take your eye out. We were stuck there for an hour! The heat was intense, people opened all the small windows, no announcement! I was starting to panic but luckily l had a very funny book that took my mind off the situation. The train then moved. Phew, but then it stopped again for 15 minutes. At Regents Park l managed to revive a bit. We were never told what was up. After that l caught the bus from Victoria to Paddington, an express service but then London transport cancelled the route.
Also, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they took the cooling down a notch in whatever deep tube sections with poorer ventilation; every passenger, both those coming from the suburbs and those taking the trains in central stations, will benefit, as trains will enter those sections with cooler air on the inside to begin with even if the system switches to regular ventilation only.
@@stephensaines7100 A bit more precisely, air conditioning on an underground train can be described as merely stirring the heat. Pump heat out of the cars into the tunnels and stations, where the doors open to let it all in again. Toronto has had air conditioning in cars forever but somehow the trips aren't sweat free. :-( Ultimately ventilation is the only answer for getting rid of heat. BTW, one reason for pumping in cool air is to push hot out out.
@@stephensaines7100 No, regenerative braking does not transform heat into electricity, it transforms motion into electricity, by using the eletric motors as generators it transforms the motion of the train into electricity and gives it back thru 3rd rail to the electrical grid.
air cond generates a lot of heat. However, other countries have managed to air condition their deep subway lines. I'm not sure why they can and we can't because the lines are at about the same depth.
Ironically, the Bank platforms of the DLR (deepest of all Bank platforms) must be the COOLEST underground platforms, as they have the perfect ventilation arrangement of twin tunnel bores directly up to ground level. Always cool on the hottest days.
It’s ‘reassuring’ to know I wasn’t just imagining the Bakerloo being up there as one of the warmest lines! Here’s hoping the new deep-level stock become TfL’s coolest trains…
@asioe kiou The underground is saturated with horrible air pollution from the freaking brake pads, to the point where you're safer breathing the damn car exhaust on the surface.
*38% of heat is via braking.* Re-gen braking and LED lights must make a significant impact in keeping the stations cool and in running costs. As well as reducing the carbon footprint. LED lighting is cheap to instal in most cases, as it is just replacing a lamp. The Mersey Rail tunnel under the River Mersey, built in 1886, has a parallel ventilation tunnel of about 2 metres diameter - it also has a drainage tunnel under as well. Boring a 1.5 to 2 metres wide vent tunnel parallel to the Central Line tunnel, that runs off to more convenient surface vent shafts, may be a more permanent solution. The vent tunnel may only be in small sections, not the whole run of the tunnel. Keeping the stations cooler naturally, would reduce the need for expensive to run mechanical cooling like air-con units in the stations and on the trains - or at least make them cheaper to run. As an aside, the water pumped out of the Mersey Rail tunnel's drainage tunnel was used to heat and cool adjacent buildings, using heat pumps - *50 years ago.*
Very interesting point. Cold air naturally sinks and warm air rises, so suitable double vent lines leading to the surface somewhere should get hot air out of the tunnels - unless it's equally hot up top. The vents might emerge some way from the tracks, wherever there is space. Maybe in one of the central London gardens mentioned by Jago recently.
@@iankemp1131 There is short sightedness for sure. Crossrail runs parallel to the Central Line for a fair length. The ventilation construction could have been joint between the two lines and clearly could have been constructed simultaneously
Because they introduced regen, they took the opportunity to INCREASE the power to the motors, giving better acceleration. The idea was that consumption evened out over the line. The older trains drew 1.4MW, the current ones 1.9MW.
Excellent post John. This is a case of a "working fluid" to transit the heat much more efficiently than air itself would or could. Discussed here: www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tunnel-vision/
@@DaimlerSleeveValve But do the current ones on the Central Line and Victoria Line actually have regen? If so, it's hard to see how new trains will balance out the extra heat generated by aircon?
The trouble with air-conditioned carriages is that the heat is just pumped into the air in the tunnels. This makes the stations hotter and potentially makes the tunnels more dangerous if they are needed to escape the trains. The only real solution is to pump the heat out of the tunnels.
@@danlastname9002 They will in fact be air conditioned, see links elsewhere in the comments. Air cooling was a rather sloppy term used in the TfL video and contradicted by their own articles. But for air cooling, the cool air has to come from somewhere - and there isn't any in the tunnels ...
In fact the most dangerous situation is a stalled packed train in bright sunlight - they can get very hot and if the saloon fans (where fitted) stop the humidity & temperature can build to dangerous levels quite quickly. It is the combination of heat & humidity that kills as sweat no longer evaporates and people suffer from hypothermia.
I have the It's Cooler Below poster hanging in my room... and, somewhat conversely, its sister poster, which states It's Warmer Below. So, that's nice and clear.
Unpleasant memories of working in the City through the great heatwave and drought in 1976. The District Line was just about bearable if you arrived and left early (easy with a flexitime company). The best place to be was by the connecting door of the carriages with the window down.
Central line is nuts! I remember commuting on it in 2003 and I honestly thought I would melt. The piston effect and big fans is good up to about 32 to 35 degrees, after this you are just getting a heat blast!
I thought the problem with having air conditioning on trains on the deep level tubes is that the on board AC is exchanging heat with the already overheated narrow tunnels.
Yeah used that line many times was so hot i had my top off and was still sweating...! Found The Bank and Morden the worst as it's around 1/2 way into the line, as at Finchley it's ok, but feel the carriage warming up as people cram in...
I remember the first time I went down the London tube and the wall of heat. I live in Stockholm, Sweden. Here the tube is built more or less 100% in the bedrock which means the heats get "drained" away. It is between 16-18° year round, no matter the weather.
Thanks again for sharing your video. I really loved that quote about the tunnels taking us closer to the devil. I’m really hoping that particular individual had no say (officially) in how things proceeded. Thanks again and take care of you 🙂🐿
Great vid Jago. I wonder if tube travellers still get the sensation of their ears popping between Stratford and Mile End on the Central Line? That must be some gradient as the tube rushes down towards central London. As a kid I used to dread the ear popping ride. Cheerio for now.
The algorithm directed me to this video, and for once I'm quite happy about it. I didn't realise that I wanted to learn about the London Underground cooling systems, but clearly the all-knowing algorithm knows better I do. Liked and subscribed!
Another great video, thanks. Interestingly, there is a similar poster to the one you showed in the video which advertises that during the winter it is warmer below.
I love how this came up in my recommended. I was just in London and was shocked at how hot it was while using the tube system. I couldn't help compare it with Seoul's subway system (I just came back from living in Korea after 4 years) and kept saying 'damn the London tube needs an update' ha!
The brakes also contribute to a lot of the pollution on the underground as tiny pieces are really into the air when the brakes are engaged. It's why the underground looks so dirty. It's also why you snot is black when you blow your nose after spending a few minutes at a station.
When I was regularly visiting LUL depots (late 90s). I found that the standard trains drew 1.4MW - that's over 4600 3KW electric heaters going full blast. The new stock, then being introduced, drew 1.9MW, limited down from 2.0MW. Regenerative braking was supposed to mean that the consumption over the line averaged out.
I remember too vividly the inferno of heat that hits you as soon as you enter Bank station in the summer. Talking of Bank station, are able to pinpoint the source of that rather unique "aroma" that is just as inescapable as the heat?
Dear Jago, kinda funny that only ventilation has been looked at as a solution to tackle the accumulation of heat inside the tunnels. Heat pump systems should be able to bring a much better solution here. One in which the tube could interchange its heat to cool its tunnels and possibly offer the excess warmth or cold to either cool or heat adjacent structures. Air conditioning on the trains may seem a step in the right direction, however, because these units travel inside the tunnels, their ‘exhaust’ heat will further increase the temperature inside the tunnels. Hence, this installment will only lead to a more pressing argument for tackling the heat accumulating inside the tunnels.
This is already being done in some places (though the focus is on getting the heat out during winter, as buildings of course don't want it in summer). See www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/03/06/heat-from-london-underground-tunnels-to-warm-homes-and-schools/
@@haltendehand1 Heat pumps are able to either heat or cool, especially with a high temperature source like from the L.U.L. The basics of a heat pump is comparable with a fridge, to cool they produce heat. Following, if you already have heat, it becomes all the more easy to cool. One on one heat exchange can be put next to block heating systems. Their energy losses are much higher than in heat pump systems. Mainly because heat pumps use other mediums than air or water to transfer their energy. The closed system round evaporator and condensor requires an expandable gas that can easily phase change from gaseous to fluid. In that process a lot of energy can be gained. Something, which the L.U.L. should put to good use. Now they just throw it away.
@@HenryMidfields Nothing, it will cost a lot of energy, while the energy in the form of heat is already available. The only thing that’s needed is that this source is transformed in to cold. Heat pump systems are excellently suited for this transformation.
@@vincenthuying98 I'm not sure about Europe, but I always wondered why some of the (mainly older) underground stations in Sydney lack air conditioning and are so hot even during winter. Particularly Town Hall Station when there is already duct space above the ceiling. Actually, what do Europeans, Americans, and Australians think of Asian-style station-wide AC?
No reference to the devil himself, I thought Yerkes would have a "hand" in this hot topic. Any chance to make a video on Green Park? Thank you again for your most entertaining content!
Indeed I was a bit disappointed and equally surprised that this wasn't somehow Yerkes' fault. After all, the name of this fine and upstanding member of society has been sullied and maligned often enough on this channel.
@@JagoHazzard Thank you! Please try to include some bits on the very eccentric Ritz Hotel building next to it, unless that deserves a video on its own :)
The Victoria, Central, Jubilee & Northern Line trains already have regenerative braking so no reduction in energy loss when these are replaced. When the Victoria Line opened the Tunnel walls were so cold that they were running in condensation and the track bed was flooded - they had great problems getting them to work for commissioning. The methods employed included running empty trains with no signalling system to use the Piston Effect to try to remove the moist air.
There has always been heat problems on the deep tube lines, me, dad and my youngest brother - 3rd, have challenged ourselves to travel the full length of all the tube/underground, DLR, and possibly the overground train lines - dad partly loves trains and travelling on them, I haven’t got a drivers license, and used public transport (before COVID-19) and as an interesting experience, alternative to being a car passenger. We have done the Piccadilly line, metropolitan line and (before COVID) the central line - we went in the car to the nearest end of the line, bought tickets to take us to the other end of the line and boarded the train sitting in front of the the buffers - waiting to depart. When we sat down on the seating bench we felt air being blown out of a vent on top of the seating, under the window - dad automatically assumed it was air conditioning, but I couldn’t see any venting at the bottom of the seating bench (where the air would be drawn into the unit to be conditioned) and assumed it was a fresh air/ventilation fan that was drawing in air underneath the carriage and blowing it inside = this was further proved that when the train went into a tunnel section - I put my hand over the vent and felt that the air was warm (with dad and brother also feeling it) and pointed out that it was air conditioning the air would still be cold, and that when pulling into a station there was a break in the third (electrified) rail, affecting the pic-up shoe supplying the auxiliary circuit/transformer causing the fluorescent lighting to flicker on/off and the fan to briefly cut out - we didn’t hear a refrigeration compressor cutting out. I assumed that these must be unbearable in the summer heat in the tunnels as the hot air at the bottom of the tunnel is being blown into the train, the only other ventilation being - the passive damper controlled vent above the windows - opened/closed with the small red lever, and the pull-down sash windows in the carriage end emergency doors. Also because of Covid-19 we are being forced to wear a mask on public transport that I assume would make it even more unpleasant in the heat, I wonder how many have been fined for not wearing their mask properly because of their face being hot and not being able to breathe properly and glugging on water bottles. Assuming that masks will be made optional on 19 July. Unfortunately I have also experienced uncomfortable conditions of carriage on the TfL bus network - heat related, before COVID-19, I was regularly using a local bus route for work experience, and found that the bus was fitted with after-market air conditioning but has the openable pull-down/hopper windows - and the passengers readily fling them open at any sign of malodour/heat and the driver (unknowingly) presses the a/c switch (the one with a snowflake on it ❄️) to blow cold, conditioned air from the dashboard fan/vents into his cab - assuming he has closed his sliding window, but the rear a/c unit on the top deck, above the stair well, also turns on and if the heat thermostat is closed it conditions the air and blows cold air out of slot vents in the ceiling panels above the windows, but the passengers not knowing the bus has full-climate control have opened the windows and…. the cold air is being sucked out of them and drawing more hot air in from outside, the air conditioning being defeated 🤦♂️, the passengers wilting in the heat, fanning themselves, glugging water from bottles and complaining how hot it is 🥵. Annoyingly with this particular bus - Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 filtered diesel, the rear seating bench gets uncomfortably hot in the summer time, I think the manufacturer has slacked on the thermal cladding in the engine compartment = with it being hot outside there is more heat in the compartment and this is being radiated into the bus. Other makes of London buses; plaxton, Scania, Wrightbus - Bamford bus company, MCV evocity - Volvo hybrid, and optare - battery electric, the most resently made ones have air conditioning designed in/the older ones have it retro fitted.
I like how at 5:41 or so, the ad on the right side of the shot is "ICE-COLD MAGIC" ... nice Easter egg. And relevant only to this video (or others with similar concepts).
As a traveller to London's Best Hospital - St. Bartholomeus near St. Pauls for many years, I used 2 stations = Fairlop, often quiet and St. Pauls fairly quiet going to it around lunch time or just after, but coming home around 5 PM was a nightmare. I too travelled In its hottest times and it became so unbearable as a disabled 70 something bloke I ended up giving up my "endocrinology" appointments sadly.. Oh how I loved travelling to central London but Oh how I very much hated trying to travel out heading home as exiting from Fairlop faced a 70 mile traffic busy drive down the A12 to my North Essex coastal retirement home.. LOVED looking at your video though young Jago - thanks again.
Besides the real estate problems, I can’t help but wonder whether the lack of adequate ventilation systems is down to poor management? It would be great to get your insight @Jago. As an engineer, I struggle to see how the above ground real estate assets make it impossible to build smart ventilation systems. Granted, cost is a huge factor*
Any ventilation system is going to take up space, and there isn’t any to spare. And you’ll need a lot more space during the building, as well. Which means you will have to remove all or part of one of those buildings, which may or may not be listed buildings, and which cost tens of millions of pounds.
I use a walking stick and got offered a seat on the central line on one of the hottest days of the year. I politely declined as I was stood by the window - the breeze is wonderful
In India the tube train drivers would leave the carriage doors open to ventilate the train as it moved along but those dreadful Health & Safety people have said that this is a very naughty thing to do now in the UK
My first job in London I commuted 3 tubes - central line to Oxford Circus, change to Victoria line, change to northern line. I did this for 6 months before I gave up and moved closer to work. The central line was so hot during that summer that I fainted twice on the way back, and took a change of clothes to work because I would sweat through everything I had on by the time I got there. I don’t miss it at all! Hell on earth. And always stuck behind another train in a tunnel somewhere for 30 mins on the way home. Lol.
You’ve got a voice that was made for commentating test cricket.
This comment 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏
Mate to a T🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Please dont have anything to do with cricket
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 🏏
Disturbing the Devil in His infernal regions probably explains the screaming whenever you enter the Bank station area
Hmm, Satan and the financial sector. Makes sense.
@@luxford60 😀👍
If you look carefully, you might spot a disused Central line station, Hell Infernum, long since abandoned because Satan deemed the Central line too hot even for him.
Deep down at Bank, on the DLR, it's cool when it's hot . . . . and very cold when it's not . . .
I was on the Central line and idk if it was near Bank but i remember horrible screeching
This must be why you're not allowed to take your Cows to market on the Central Line.
And Chancery Lane was SO convenient for Smithfield. I suppose we'll have to use Farringdon now.
I often take my cow on the central line to shop in the West End and/or to go to restaurants. It makes her happy.
Crossrail will have inter-cowability though, great alternative if it ever opens!
I'm fairly sure you are, but it's the requirement to carry them on the escalator that's stopping people.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hence the Baker part of the Bakerloo line.
We call it the 'Bakingloo' sometimes.
I hate to think where the Loo part got it's name
@@eddisstreet It was called the Baker-Waterloo line in history, so the 'loo' is the term from Waterloo station.
@@eddisstreet: I think it comes from the types of passengers that use the line(!)
...sorry, couldn't resist the chance!
@@aceultradragon4685 Yes, I do know that - I was making a cheap lavatorial joke!!
Many years ago, a fried of mine described his experience on the New York subway: you are always afraid the carriages will fall apart before reaching the next station - but they do have air conditioning.
How come NYC 🙄falling apart train has air 🤔 but the London underground has 0 air conditioning
@Peter Marksteiner So your fried friend had been on the Central line then 😂😂
The carriages that he described were subway trains that had ceiling fan and were rebuilt with air conditioning. The oldest trains that were rebuilt were made in 1964, the R32s
@@adonaiyah2196 Much of New York is built on solid rock - granite. So the subway lines are just below the surface making it easy to dissipate the hot air out to the atmosphere - you've seen the gratings on the streets?. (It's also the reason you can build massive tall buildings without massive deep foundations.)
London is built in a river valley on clay. So the deep lines (Victoria, Central, Piccadilly etc.) are much deeper than New York and surrounded by insulating clay as Jago said. This makes it much harder to get rid of the hot air. The problem could have been addressed if AC had been considered when the lines were originally constructed but 100-120 years ago AC was in its infancy. Plus the heat problem on the Underground only really exists when we get a summer heatwave and we all know they don't last long...
The carriages are really not that bad. It’s just that you’re guaranteed to meet at least one er, very eccentric person on every train. Good old NYC - it’s never boring.
I worked on the “cooling the tube” programme at Oxford Circus. It was an interesting challenge. The system is essentially air handling units suspended above the track on each platform. They are connected to two large chillers located on the roof of a TfL owned building above the station (visible in the shot of Oxford Circus station at the end of the vid). It is very difficult to work efficiently in the small window of work you have in the middle of the night. So the whole process takes a very long time and costs an extremely large amount of money. You also have the added problem of dealing both with the LUL and the TfL who are difficult at the best of times.
Question as a layman: Would platform screens help with this? If a barrier existed , would it push up the air?
What if the platforms had these platform doors, AND a a door blocking the train from leaving the station, that also acts as a way to deflect the air UP into a chute somewhere? Maybe even some suction fans above? If the next train pushes your hot air somewhere else and it’s contained to each station it could work, right?
So rather than the piston effect affecting the whole line, you deal with the smaller sub problem and deal with it in 30+ repetitions.
There may be some health and safety hazards associated with blocking the train’s path with something but I think it could be a good idea.
@@KiLLJoYCZcams the trouble is that the train (and it’s passengers) generate heat throughout the network i.e. not just at the platforms. And even platform screens, such as the ones on the Jubilee Line, would not prevent the heat from eventually spreading in to the platform space. In an ideal world you would have regular supply and extract shafts that would remove the hot air and replace with cool air. It would be even better if the hot air could be used for something useful such as heating the buildings above the line.
Sadly those chillers appear to have been off for the past few years, particularly on the hottest days. Green Park also has them. They are great when they’re running
@@bjoernaltmann It is a shame if they have been turned off. There was a problem with vibrations from the chilled water pipework transmitting in to the building that housed the chillers. Perhaps that’s why they are off.
@@MKfsMK what problems would vibrations cause ?
The irony is that rather than hell heating up the tube, the effect is actually the other way. After a hundred years the earth around the Central Line tunnels is now 10-15 degrees hotter than it was when the tunnels were built, something that's actually caused some structural problems as the London Clay dries out and contracts. Nothing serious and easily fixed with a quick squirt of concrete in the right place, but an interesting extra wrinkle in the struggle to keep the tube cool.
How is it possible to squirt concrete deep in the tunnels like really deep
@@adonaiyah2196 with a pipe I suppose
I wonder if anyone has thought to use that extra heat in the clay to heat the buildings along the route during winter via ground source heat pumps.
@@sergarlantyrell7847 I think given they can't even figure out air conditioning, that's a bit much to ask.
@@simontist but air conditioning the trains is only going to make the tunnels and platforms hotter.
The heat needs to be removed from the system entirely.
_"I'm never going to grow up to be some old fart that watches documentaries about trains."_
I remember being in a carriage that stopped for about a 10 mins between Chancery Lane and Bank back in the mid 90s. It was mid-August, the train was packed. It was one of the worst experiences in my life...
So you have basically been to hell and back...!
I lived through the hot Toronto summer when the Bloor line's trains' air conditioning failed, but I have never been as uncomfortable as I have been on the Central Line.
Had the same experience. I am not claustrophobic, but when you are in a small area and feel the heat creeping up on you, it is not a pleasant feeling. Someone kept pressing the emergency call button to the driver, probably a panic attack, and he keep coming back that there is nothing he can do until we get to the station.
@@johnfitzgerald7618 In the Toronto case, the end cars of the train were cooled...because the drivers (one alternately acting as guard at the other end of the train) refused to drive the trains otherwise. Union edict, and also required under Ontario health and safety regs, rightly so.
Also the Toronto cars are a larger loading gauge than most BR trains! Even packed in like sardines, the tin is a hell of a lot bigger, and taller. There's lots of space overhead.
I live in Toronto, btw. I'm a Dual.
@@stephensaines7100 Thanks for the information, Stephen. Makes you wonder about the British health and safety laws. As for the height of the trains, I'm 6' 2" and in the old days spent most of my time on the Underground stooped over. Many of the cars are still difficult for people over 6'. And that's no great height. Of course I banged my head a lot of times getting out of the old PCC streetcars.
What's cooler than being cool? ST. PAUL'S! 🧊
How does this only have 9 likes
:O CZcams commented???
hummmm didnt get it...
...
Omg its youtube
As an Australian who has spent many a year living in the UK (London and Newcastle) I can promise you that an Australian summer is infinitely preferable to a British summer. The way Britain seems to retain heat and is unable to disperse it results in hell on earth. That said, an Australian winter will put hair on your chest. You've not experienced freezing cold misery until you've spent a winter in Melbourne. The British design traditions we inherited were convinced Australia is always hot when it quite simply isn't.
It gets cold there? Always thought summer there was like spring time here
It is hot compared to Britain. That’s true even in the winter.
@@BLX187 It is much hotter than in Britain. However, it is still a good idea to make sure your homes are well insulated.
The idea Melbourne is cold is a joke all the norther cities of Australia throws at Melbourne, because of how much Melbournians like to proclaim they're the real city of Australia.
It's not _biting_ cold like the British winter, it just goes as low as 5C during the winters.
In the summer during hot weather, I used to go into the few smoking carriages, as in the heat I would rather smell cigarette smoke than various odours which permeated the non smoking carriages. I fainted once and went two stops before it was noticed. That's because we were so packed in like sardines, the other tube travellers were literally keeping me standing! Clearly, not much has changed. Thank you for yet another interesting video on your channel 👍
It wouldn't be the first time I have passed out on my way home from the office, the Circle line from Temple to Bayswater Road. Most embarrassing.
Wow! I've never passed out, but I did have a horrendous nosebleed on the Bakerloo line going to work. It's the worst nosebleed I've ever had in my life. I tried to stop it discreetly but blood was gushing everywhere and getting onto my bag and clothes. The lady sitting next to me even got up and moved to another seat! Thankfully other passengers were much kinder, offering me tissues and advice. To avoid further embarrassment (and potential haemorrhage), I got out at Marylebone and sought help from a TFL staff member. They were horrified at the sight of me, but so helpful and kind!
These days you’d find yourself in a Tiktok music video were that to happen, also massive age-gap flirting
For a nosebleed, get a tissue hold it on your nose and tightly pinch/clamp with your hand, that is what my mum told me 😉
Thank god for the Air conditioning on all Madrid Metro trains 🙏 I thought it was common practice all over the world 😳.
The Central Line is hotter than the EU standard for lifestock transportation. WELL good you're not EU anymore, right.
This made my day...cheers!
Tfl pushing for Brexit so they can keep their lines steaming hot
Yes, thanks, great to be out of the EU.
Can someone explain this comment to me?
Edit: On second thoughts I think I understand: If Britain were in the EU, their livestock laws would have meant a cooler tube. Interesting idea.
@@eadweard. So the tube is hotter now since they left the EU?
Never use a carriahge with a driver's cab in it - there is sod all ventilation.
Thanks to Jago for explaining why those vents at St Pauls offer a little relief. I wondered why the air was a bit cooler.
I remember being grateful for the bit of air coming though that slidey window thing up at the front of the old tube cars when I rode them a couple years ago. I definitely felt quite claustrophobic and short of breath on some of those old trains. Luckily as a tourist I was always travelling off peak so the trains were never crammed full. I can't imagine how bad that would be at peak times.
That's the custard to your tart...
01:05 The heat was caused by the underground railways disturbing the devil? How can that be? A lot of the lines were Charles Yerkes' idea in the first place, so I doubt he'd find them disturbing. Or am I confusing different characters in this series?
(And the mid 2020s is looking like the next chance most of us outside the UK will get to visit London, if one is being optimistic.)
hilarious
✝️ - An overly christen philosphor had that depiction/reference to the spiritual realm = that is hell: the devil - Satan 👹, his demons/demonic minions, the fire & brinestone with the spirituality dead/goats in it, is thought to be, depicted/referenced being in the middle of the earth - when I, a saved Pentecostal Christian refer to hell, I point to the floor, when at church, the pastor is preaching at the lectern, when referring to hell he lowers his hand and points to the floor. Same thing with heaven; where God the father, Jesus Christ, the angels and the saved Christians/sheep are, is depicted/referenced to being above us = when referring to heaven I point to the sky/ceiling, same thing with the pastor at church. Yes, I know you would screech in the replies/comments to this comment, about the rock, tectonic plates, magma, outer & inner cores, in the centre of the earth, and the sky - above the blue colour, satellites, space junk, outer space and the moon… I know about that. what God has also said in the Bible that the first/current heaven is also referred to as the unseen state = as it is spiritual we can’t physically see it, and that we are in the physical realm that unfortunately is sin cursed. God also said that St John was given a vision by an angel of a description of a new heaven and earth, that the current one isn’t interesting - when Jesus was crucified on the cross, he referred to the current heaven as “paradise” to the the thief next to him, but the new one is described to us so we can look forward to it 🥰
@@samuelfellows6923 Do you mean christian philosopher?
@@archstanton6102 An overly christian phosphor, someone with so much "faith" that they glow in the dark?
@@henrybest4057 That must be the holy spirit igniting
Don’t forget that we heat things up automatically just by being there - roughly 100W each person thermal, so any unventilated place soon warms up.
The heat comes from disturbing the devil? Well, in rush hour the system is crowded like hell so it might be a valid reason.
Quatermass film, do u remember it? 1950s or 60s
"The Central line really takes the biscuit...then burnt it". Made me laugh, and I snorted tea out of my nostril.
😁
Ew
How the hell do you do that?
With air conditioning the heat has to go somewhere, so cooler trains means hotter platforms. Perhaps they could market the Central Line as a travelling sauna?
uhhhhh
it doesnt feel hot
What's cooler than being cool? St. Paul's cold! (Alright alright alright alright alright)
Hey ya!
I don’t get it
@@QuarioQuario54321 it is a reference to song lyrics. Hey ya by Outkast
"Lend me some warmth, I am your neighbor!" - people who live above the Central Line in winter, probably
It’s funny because everyone dances to that song and thinks it’s happy but it’s actually a pretty serious song about being on relationship that you’re not actually happy. The lyric “You don’t hear me, you just wanna dance” shows that! Have a great day guys!
I worked in London for years, I miss the tube like I would miss cancer.
Great video Jago.
The new trains will be Air Cooled not Air Coditioned as Air Con on the trains would make the tunnels even warmer as there is nowhere for the aircon waste heat to go.
That means passengers would be freezing on the train, and boiling on the platforms.
What does air cooled mean? Cooling the air is the same thing as air conditioning.
@@JasperJanssen basically they have an air circulation system in the train which will move air around but its not air conditioned. If you watch the new tube for london video on youtube it shows what it is.
@@stevewalsh1987 link for convenience czcams.com/video/Z3Q0FZUKHkY/video.html
@@stevewalsh1987 Well frankly that sounds like smoke and mirrors. Underground trains have been air cooled for years through opening side windows and carriage end windows - which will disappear in the new trains. I suspect the air cooling referred to in the video is really air conditioning. Which is fine until it breaks down, or you have a total power failure. Then it really would be hell underground, possibly fatal. Ever been in a BR Class 158 with aircon broken on a hot day?
Interesting to know 38% of the heat comes from trains braking,to me the tube smells of brake pads and the Central line particularly so
No idea but i imagine most of the speed is scrubbed off with big resistors wired to the motors acting as generators.
More than willing to be proved wrong !
@@mrb.5610 it puts the energy back into the rails as electricity - hence regenerative, it re-generates. if it was using resistors it would just be creating a similar amount of heat electrically instead of via friction.
@@andyharding1514 1992 stocks use rheostatic, friction AND regenerative braking - so yes, the 1992 stocks do generate heat through resistor banks. On the Waterloo and City fleet, the regenerative braking's actually been disabled.
I thought the smell was human skin cells
@@danlastname9002 I think you'd best check your reference on that. DC series motors can't regeneratively brake, at least not in the way you posit. The sub-station feeding the motors can, with choppers inserted, but best read this:
Tunnel vision: the challenge of cooling the London Underground
It carries five million passengers a day and is integral to the smooth running of the capital - but could the Tube also allow developers to tap a huge secondary heat source?
Andy Pearson investigates
Posted in May 2018
www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tunnel-vision/
As someone that used to commute from Ealing Broadway to Gants Hill I can confirm that even in winter the trains can be hot, in summer they are often unbearable.
Problem with air-conditioned tube trains is that it cooks those on the platform instead. Regenerative braking definitely good though moving from fluorescent to LED probably overstated
That air is probably easier to remove from the platforms than the trains though
@@rin_etoware_2989 Unfortunately not, it cooks the entire tunnel wherever the trains are, it's just that it's more noticeable at stations.
St Paul's is one of the coolest stations on the tube? Strange, I don't think I've ever see hipsters congregating there...
Neither have I, but I wouldn't expect to since to someone of my age hipsters are articles of clothing...
Hipsters were at St Paul's before it was cool.
Hipsters probably associate St Paul's with oppression some how, they'd only go there to protest. The hipsters architecture of choice is a shack serving all things soy.
I’m literally moving to South Wales to stop having to use the line. My days of commuting from Debden to Bond Street needed to end haha
@@andymerrett a lovely Caerphilly to Newport is on the cards for me haha
@@BenG1874 I applaud you for your failure to understand that my comment was intended in jest. My reasons for moving are multidimensional, and trust me, the central line is faaaar down that list.
Believe me, Caerphilly to Newport might be cooler, but is still just as crammed as the LU - TfL rail here deliver a poor service in peak times, tends to be 2 carriages on an old Class 150
@@j3ojos
I applaud you for not getting my intended sarcasm. But this is the problem in general with text comments. Good night.
@@BenG1874 lmao
A very cool video…
Won’t an air conditioner train just be pumping warm air into the tunnels though and unlike the sub service lines doesn’t have the space / ventilation to dissipate the hot air?
The implementation of regenerative braking means that the heat output of the new trains with air conditioning will actually be smaller than the current trains without AC. They are also planning on introducing some station and tunnel cooling schemes to lower platform temperatures. See more in this feasibility report, page 26: content.tfl.gov.uk/ntfl-feasibility-report.pdf
Run the AC full blast while they are above ground, get the carriages frosty as fcuk, and then let them heat up in the deep level section? 😁😁
@@Rebasepoiss - that’s clever stuff - thanks for the info!
@@mudmucks - the Victoria line wants a word with you!
@@Rebasepoiss From your reference:
[This would enable
less heat to be discharged into the
tunnels and Underground stations, which
would potentially reduce the need for
infrastructure cooling and/or reduce
temperatures]
The heat has to go somewhere, and this is just pumping it into the tunnels, not converting it into other forms of energy that can be used productively.
Let's hope that when they finally get Crossrail working it will reduce the amount of passengers having to use the Central line.
I used to stand by the door that connects the carriages, with the window wide open, getting blasted by cool air. But I had to fight for it. There would be people standing there with jackets on and the window closed. Absolute maniacs.
Very interesting - especially the bit about how much the train brakes heat up their surroundings.
I always regarded the deep level tubes as infernal regions, though, and am very grateful I rarely need to use them these days.
As an Australian the idea of not having aircon on a train is mindboggling to me, we would not survive as a nation without it!
I’ve wondered this for years!!!
My abiding memory of the Central line in hot weather is hopping from Oxford Circus to St. Paul's. It got packed. Holding onto a grip, there was this guy doing the same but he was wearing a t-shirt. His armpit was an inch or so from my nose. The smell was one thing but my nose started to itch. I tried wriggling my nose but failed and then started to sniff. Never been so glad to get off a tube train before.
I LOVE how you make something which should be so dull so interesting. Love your videos.
I'm no fan of the central line and that's the cold truth. In the days of 'shaft' and the 'three degrees', I was radiant about the central line, but these days I'm on the Pick-a-chilly line to Thermos Grove.
😁
Back in 1989, l was on the bakerloo trying to get to paddington. This was part of my daily commute. The old stock train halted just before Regents Park. It was the evening rush hour, mid summer and it was standing room only. Plenty of back packers ready to turn round and take your eye out. We were stuck there for an hour! The heat was intense, people opened all the small windows, no announcement! I was starting to panic but luckily l had a very funny book that took my mind off the situation. The train then moved. Phew, but then it stopped again for 15 minutes. At Regents Park l managed to revive a bit. We were never told what was up.
After that l caught the bus from Victoria to Paddington, an express service but then London transport cancelled the route.
When those trains get aircon, that will make the temperature in the station itself much worse
Yes and no, if they can sort out the "38% from braking" by a decent amount then the two may well offset each other to a large extent... One can hope
Also, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they took the cooling down a notch in whatever deep tube sections with poorer ventilation; every passenger, both those coming from the suburbs and those taking the trains in central stations, will benefit, as trains will enter those sections with cooler air on the inside to begin with even if the system switches to regular ventilation only.
@@stephensaines7100 A bit more precisely, air conditioning on an underground train can be described as merely stirring the heat. Pump heat out of the cars into the tunnels and stations, where the doors open to let it all in again. Toronto has had air conditioning in cars forever but somehow the trips aren't sweat free. :-(
Ultimately ventilation is the only answer for getting rid of heat.
BTW, one reason for pumping in cool air is to push hot out out.
@@stephensaines7100 No, regenerative braking does not transform heat into electricity, it transforms motion into electricity, by using the eletric motors as generators it transforms the motion of the train into electricity and gives it back thru 3rd rail to the electrical grid.
air cond generates a lot of heat. However, other countries have managed to air condition their deep subway lines. I'm not sure why they can and we can't because the lines are at about the same depth.
Ironically, the Bank platforms of the DLR (deepest of all Bank platforms) must be the COOLEST underground platforms, as they have the perfect ventilation arrangement of twin tunnel bores directly up to ground level. Always cool on the hottest days.
It’s ‘reassuring’ to know I wasn’t just imagining the Bakerloo being up there as one of the warmest lines!
Here’s hoping the new deep-level stock become TfL’s coolest trains…
@asioe kiou
The underground is saturated with horrible air pollution from the freaking brake pads, to the point where you're safer breathing the damn car exhaust on the surface.
*38% of heat is via braking.* Re-gen braking and LED lights must make a significant impact in keeping the stations cool and in running costs. As well as reducing the carbon footprint. LED lighting is cheap to instal in most cases, as it is just replacing a lamp.
The Mersey Rail tunnel under the River Mersey, built in 1886, has a parallel ventilation tunnel of about 2 metres diameter - it also has a drainage tunnel under as well. Boring a 1.5 to 2 metres wide vent tunnel parallel to the Central Line tunnel, that runs off to more convenient surface vent shafts, may be a more permanent solution. The vent tunnel may only be in small sections, not the whole run of the tunnel. Keeping the stations cooler naturally, would reduce the need for expensive to run mechanical cooling like air-con units in the stations and on the trains - or at least make them cheaper to run.
As an aside, the water pumped out of the Mersey Rail tunnel's drainage tunnel was used to heat and cool adjacent buildings, using heat pumps - *50 years ago.*
Very interesting point. Cold air naturally sinks and warm air rises, so suitable double vent lines leading to the surface somewhere should get hot air out of the tunnels - unless it's equally hot up top. The vents might emerge some way from the tracks, wherever there is space. Maybe in one of the central London gardens mentioned by Jago recently.
@@iankemp1131
There is short sightedness for sure. Crossrail runs parallel to the Central Line for a fair length. The ventilation construction could have been joint between the two lines and clearly could have been constructed simultaneously
Because they introduced regen, they took the opportunity to INCREASE the power to the motors, giving better acceleration. The idea was that consumption evened out over the line. The older trains drew 1.4MW, the current ones 1.9MW.
Excellent post John. This is a case of a "working fluid" to transit the heat much more efficiently than air itself would or could.
Discussed here:
www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tunnel-vision/
@@DaimlerSleeveValve But do the current ones on the Central Line and Victoria Line actually have regen? If so, it's hard to see how new trains will balance out the extra heat generated by aircon?
"Thanks to my *fans* on Ko-fi and Patreon" - I see what you did there, Jago.
Delight as ever and riddled with research, absolutely fascinating thank you Jago :)
The heat is unbearable , I’ve seen people nearly faint !
I’ve caught someone as they literally fainted in front of me.
@@TheTwicezero many summers ago was a living nightmare man !!
Stop complaining. It’s not that bad, people just love to moan.
"Trains get refreshed every 2 minutes"
Central line: what does it say?? Meh prolly
Great video as always. It's amazing to realise exactly how much heat is generated by a train's brakes!
My favourite part of a Sunday ( or any day) - A new Jagoo video and a fresh cup of coffee to keep me happy ! Yea !
0:25 Was expecting "How hot is it? So hot they coloured it red on the maps."
The trouble with air-conditioned carriages is that the heat is just pumped into the air in the tunnels. This makes the stations hotter and potentially makes the tunnels more dangerous if they are needed to escape the trains.
The only real solution is to pump the heat out of the tunnels.
The NTfL fleet are not air conditioned - they're air cooled. Air cooling doesn't create heat, as far as I can tell.
@@danlastname9002 - so these new trains will have more ventilation fans in them 🤨
@@danlastname9002 They will in fact be air conditioned, see links elsewhere in the comments. Air cooling was a rather sloppy term used in the TfL video and contradicted by their own articles. But for air cooling, the cool air has to come from somewhere - and there isn't any in the tunnels ...
@@samuelfellows6923 Quite so! They will in fact be air conditioned.
And have windows that open and fans in stations that blow air round
In fact the most dangerous situation is a stalled packed train in bright sunlight - they can get very hot and if the saloon fans (where fitted) stop the humidity & temperature can build to dangerous levels quite quickly. It is the combination of heat & humidity that kills as sweat no longer evaporates and people suffer from hypothermia.
I have the It's Cooler Below poster hanging in my room... and, somewhat conversely, its sister poster, which states It's Warmer Below. So, that's nice and clear.
35 degrees eh, that's a nice summer day here in Australia
very different humidity
Without fail, any topic about somewhere being too hot you'll get an Australian saying how that's nothing.
Unpleasant memories of working in the City through the great heatwave and drought in 1976. The District Line was just about bearable if you arrived and left early (easy with a flexitime company). The best place to be was by the connecting door of the carriages with the window down.
I should be used to your impressive deep dives by now, but breaking down the different cooling systems really is a whole new level of detail
Central line is nuts! I remember commuting on it in 2003 and I honestly thought I would melt. The piston effect and big fans is good up to about 32 to 35 degrees, after this you are just getting a heat blast!
I thought the problem with having air conditioning on trains on the deep level tubes is that the on board AC is exchanging heat with the already overheated narrow tunnels.
Works fine if you insulate the carriages and do not open the doors in stations.
@@Allan_son Not opening the doors in stations will also improve travel times, they should've thought of it sooner.
@@C20F It's satire
Hot and humid, especially between Bank going towards Liverpool Street where the train is often held. Nightmare.
Yeah used that line many times was so hot i had my top off and was still sweating...! Found The Bank and Morden the worst as it's around 1/2 way into the line, as at Finchley it's ok, but feel the carriage warming up as people cram in...
I remember the first time I went down the London tube and the wall of heat. I live in Stockholm, Sweden. Here the tube is built more or less 100% in the bedrock which means the heats get "drained" away. It is between 16-18° year round, no matter the weather.
Thanks again for sharing your video. I really loved that quote about the tunnels taking us closer to the devil. I’m really hoping that particular individual had no say (officially) in how things proceeded. Thanks again and take care of you 🙂🐿
Great vid Jago. I wonder if tube travellers still get the sensation of their ears popping between Stratford and Mile End on the Central Line? That must be some gradient as the tube rushes down towards central London. As a kid I used to dread the ear popping ride. Cheerio for now.
Yes it happened to me last time I was visiting my uncles who live in Mile End
00:33 Terrible joke - but at least the girls on train laughed for you! ;)
The algorithm directed me to this video, and for once I'm quite happy about it. I didn't realise that I wanted to learn about the London Underground cooling systems, but clearly the all-knowing algorithm knows better I do. Liked and subscribed!
my favourite line is the met line just for the sweet sweet air con. nicer to be on a train than outside on some hot days
Always hated the central line, so loud and too hot whilst being the most packed. 🥵
I totally agree with you. Not a good experience!!
I’ve been dealing with this heat for 19 years of my career. I will not miss it when those fancy new trains come in.
Another great video, thanks. Interestingly, there is a similar poster to the one you showed in the video which advertises that during the winter it is warmer below.
I love how this came up in my recommended. I was just in London and was shocked at how hot it was while using the tube system. I couldn't help compare it with Seoul's subway system (I just came back from living in Korea after 4 years) and kept saying 'damn the London tube needs an update' ha!
Cool down the line? You'll get Arthur Fonzerelli's vote! Aaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!
It is infact the 4th circle of Hell and all who travel on it are serving some kind of cosmic penance
It's not a circle anymore, it's coil-shaped
Yet another brief but fascinating video Jago - cheers ! I had no idea that trains braking generated so much heat in the system - truly informative. 😎
The brakes also contribute to a lot of the pollution on the underground as tiny pieces are really into the air when the brakes are engaged. It's why the underground looks so dirty. It's also why you snot is black when you blow your nose after spending a few minutes at a station.
When I was regularly visiting LUL depots (late 90s). I found that the standard trains drew 1.4MW - that's over 4600 3KW electric heaters going full blast. The new stock, then being introduced, drew 1.9MW, limited down from 2.0MW. Regenerative braking was supposed to mean that the consumption over the line averaged out.
I remember too vividly the inferno of heat that hits you as soon as you enter Bank station in the summer.
Talking of Bank station, are able to pinpoint the source of that rather unique "aroma" that is just as inescapable as the heat?
Yeah, it was Bank and two stops in its radius which I called The Danger Zone. Get by that window and pull it open before you get there!
Dear Jago, kinda funny that only ventilation has been looked at as a solution to tackle the accumulation of heat inside the tunnels. Heat pump systems should be able to bring a much better solution here. One in which the tube could interchange its heat to cool its tunnels and possibly offer the excess warmth or cold to either cool or heat adjacent structures. Air conditioning on the trains may seem a step in the right direction, however, because these units travel inside the tunnels, their ‘exhaust’ heat will further increase the temperature inside the tunnels. Hence, this installment will only lead to a more pressing argument for tackling the heat accumulating inside the tunnels.
This is already being done in some places (though the focus is on getting the heat out during winter, as buildings of course don't want it in summer). See www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/03/06/heat-from-london-underground-tunnels-to-warm-homes-and-schools/
What would stop the stations themselves adopt station-wide ACs like Tokyo or Hong Kong?
@@haltendehand1 Heat pumps are able to either heat or cool, especially with a high temperature source like from the L.U.L. The basics of a heat pump is comparable with a fridge, to cool they produce heat. Following, if you already have heat, it becomes all the more easy to cool. One on one heat exchange can be put next to block heating systems. Their energy losses are much higher than in heat pump systems. Mainly because heat pumps use other mediums than air or water to transfer their energy. The closed system round evaporator and condensor requires an expandable gas that can easily phase change from gaseous to fluid. In that process a lot of energy can be gained. Something, which the L.U.L. should put to good use. Now they just throw it away.
@@HenryMidfields Nothing, it will cost a lot of energy, while the energy in the form of heat is already available. The only thing that’s needed is that this source is transformed in to cold. Heat pump systems are excellently suited for this transformation.
@@vincenthuying98 I'm not sure about Europe, but I always wondered why some of the (mainly older) underground stations in Sydney lack air conditioning and are so hot even during winter. Particularly Town Hall Station when there is already duct space above the ceiling. Actually, what do Europeans, Americans, and Australians think of Asian-style station-wide AC?
your narration is excellent, clear and comforting voice, many thanx for everything dear Jago
You’re very welcome!
I used to go from Mile End to Ealing Broadway , you can imagine my misery on journey 😂😂
No reference to the devil himself, I thought Yerkes would have a "hand" in this hot topic. Any chance to make a video on Green Park? Thank you again for your most entertaining content!
Indeed I was a bit disappointed and equally surprised that this wasn't somehow Yerkes' fault. After all, the name of this fine and upstanding member of society has been sullied and maligned often enough on this channel.
@@SeverityOne With plenty more maligning to come!
Green Park is on the list!
@@JagoHazzard Thank you! Please try to include some bits on the very eccentric Ritz Hotel building next to it, unless that deserves a video on its own :)
Traveling on that hell hole is best avoided whenever possible.
The Victoria, Central, Jubilee & Northern Line trains already have regenerative braking so no reduction in energy loss when these are replaced.
When the Victoria Line opened the Tunnel walls were so cold that they were running in condensation and the track bed was flooded - they had great problems getting them to work for commissioning. The methods employed included running empty trains with no signalling system to use the Piston Effect to try to remove the moist air.
Anyone else get this video in their recommendations after the heatwave this weekend? I avoided the central line like the plague 😂
I prefer the Devil Theory - it's more in tune with today's general craziness.
Central line: pretty darn hot
Victoria line: let me introduce myself
If you know ya know
Central is hotter
@@alizasheikh5289 man Victoria line from Victoria to Highbury and Islington in the summer is a literal oven
Jubilee line: The best line in London
There has always been heat problems on the deep tube lines, me, dad and my youngest brother - 3rd, have challenged ourselves to travel the full length of all the tube/underground, DLR, and possibly the overground train lines - dad partly loves trains and travelling on them, I haven’t got a drivers license, and used public transport (before COVID-19) and as an interesting experience, alternative to being a car passenger. We have done the Piccadilly line, metropolitan line and (before COVID) the central line - we went in the car to the nearest end of the line, bought tickets to take us to the other end of the line and boarded the train sitting in front of the the buffers - waiting to depart. When we sat down on the seating bench we felt air being blown out of a vent on top of the seating, under the window - dad automatically assumed it was air conditioning, but I couldn’t see any venting at the bottom of the seating bench (where the air would be drawn into the unit to be conditioned) and assumed it was a fresh air/ventilation fan that was drawing in air underneath the carriage and blowing it inside = this was further proved that when the train went into a tunnel section - I put my hand over the vent and felt that the air was warm (with dad and brother also feeling it) and pointed out that it was air conditioning the air would still be cold, and that when pulling into a station there was a break in the third (electrified) rail, affecting the pic-up shoe supplying the auxiliary circuit/transformer causing the fluorescent lighting to flicker on/off and the fan to briefly cut out - we didn’t hear a refrigeration compressor cutting out. I assumed that these must be unbearable in the summer heat in the tunnels as the hot air at the bottom of the tunnel is being blown into the train, the only other ventilation being - the passive damper controlled vent above the windows - opened/closed with the small red lever, and the pull-down sash windows in the carriage end emergency doors. Also because of Covid-19 we are being forced to wear a mask on public transport that I assume would make it even more unpleasant in the heat, I wonder how many have been fined for not wearing their mask properly because of their face being hot and not being able to breathe properly and glugging on water bottles. Assuming that masks will be made optional on 19 July. Unfortunately I have also experienced uncomfortable conditions of carriage on the TfL bus network - heat related, before COVID-19, I was regularly using a local bus route for work experience, and found that the bus was fitted with after-market air conditioning but has the openable pull-down/hopper windows - and the passengers readily fling them open at any sign of malodour/heat and the driver (unknowingly) presses the a/c switch (the one with a snowflake on it ❄️) to blow cold, conditioned air from the dashboard fan/vents into his cab - assuming he has closed his sliding window, but the rear a/c unit on the top deck, above the stair well, also turns on and if the heat thermostat is closed it conditions the air and blows cold air out of slot vents in the ceiling panels above the windows, but the passengers not knowing the bus has full-climate control have opened the windows and…. the cold air is being sucked out of them and drawing more hot air in from outside, the air conditioning being defeated 🤦♂️, the passengers wilting in the heat, fanning themselves, glugging water from bottles and complaining how hot it is 🥵. Annoyingly with this particular bus - Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 filtered diesel, the rear seating bench gets uncomfortably hot in the summer time, I think the manufacturer has slacked on the thermal cladding in the engine compartment = with it being hot outside there is more heat in the compartment and this is being radiated into the bus. Other makes of London buses; plaxton, Scania, Wrightbus - Bamford bus company, MCV evocity - Volvo hybrid, and optare - battery electric, the most resently made ones have air conditioning designed in/the older ones have it retro fitted.
I like how at 5:41 or so, the ad on the right side of the shot is "ICE-COLD MAGIC" ... nice Easter egg. And relevant only to this video (or others with similar concepts).
So the solution is aircon. What a revelation. All the trains here in Tokyo have aircon and it's pleasant, even during the hot and humid summer.
it's very deep underground so u can't just put it in suddenly
imagine just getting AC in the carriages
ACs are unknown concept in the UK
As a traveller to London's Best Hospital - St. Bartholomeus near St. Pauls for many years, I used 2 stations = Fairlop, often quiet and St. Pauls fairly quiet going to it around lunch time or just after, but coming home around 5 PM was a nightmare. I too travelled In its hottest times and it became so unbearable as a disabled 70 something bloke I ended up giving up my "endocrinology" appointments sadly.. Oh how I loved travelling to central London but Oh how I very much hated trying to travel out heading home as exiting from Fairlop faced a 70 mile traffic busy drive down the A12 to my North Essex coastal retirement home.. LOVED looking at your video though young Jago - thanks again.
Interesting. Thanks for all the effort and information. 😊
How about giving eveyone free beer?
Seconded. And a glass of sherry or a white wine for the laydees! :D
@@cargy930 And ice cream for the kiddies.
Besides the real estate problems, I can’t help but wonder whether the lack of adequate ventilation systems is down to poor management? It would be great to get your insight @Jago. As an engineer, I struggle to see how the above ground real estate assets make it impossible to build smart ventilation systems.
Granted, cost is a huge factor*
Any ventilation system is going to take up space, and there isn’t any to spare. And you’ll need a lot more space during the building, as well. Which means you will have to remove all or part of one of those buildings, which may or may not be listed buildings, and which cost tens of millions of pounds.
Ive always wondered that when I lived in London and used the tube for work thanks Jago.
I use a walking stick and got offered a seat on the central line on one of the hottest days of the year. I politely declined as I was stood by the window - the breeze is wonderful
38 seconds in and already two corny dad jokes. Might have to watch more of your videos 😂😂
If commuters delayed coffee and breakfast until they arrived at work tube temps would fall.
In India the tube train drivers would leave the carriage doors open to ventilate the train as it moved along but those dreadful Health & Safety people have said that this is a very naughty thing to do now in the UK
Thanks for changing your microphone settings. The new setup is a lot easier to understand for myself, and possibly others with audio dyspraxia.
The breeze on the escalators/corridors mostly makes up for the heat.
No it doesn't. The central line is extremely hot
But you can ignore EU rules now that you are an 'independent' country !
😂 Indeed. Everyone can now enjoy cube shaped tomatoes, straight bananas / cucumbers and suggestive biscuits 🍪 . . . !
Another great vid! Love how you sweat the details....
My first job in London I commuted 3 tubes - central line to Oxford Circus, change to Victoria line, change to northern line. I did this for 6 months before I gave up and moved closer to work. The central line was so hot during that summer that I fainted twice on the way back, and took a change of clothes to work because I would sweat through everything I had on by the time I got there. I don’t miss it at all! Hell on earth. And always stuck behind another train in a tunnel somewhere for 30 mins on the way home. Lol.