MIDI 2.0 - It is really happening! What you can use right now, what is still missing?
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Since my last look at MIDI 2.0 one year ago, a lot of things happened and now the 1st hardware devices as well as software are showing up.
Time to look into what is possible and what is still missing!
0:00 Introduction
0:35 The Big Picture
2:15 Available Keyboards
3:26 Operating System Support
6:24 Plugin Interface Standards
7:17 DAWs
Links:
Hardware:
- Korg Keystage: www.korg.com/de/products/comp...
- Roland A88 MkII: www.roland.com/de/products/a-...
Operating Systems
- Macos: developer.apple.com/documenta...
- Linux: docs.kernel.org/sound/designs...
- Windows: github.com/microsoft/midi
Frameworks
- JUCE is working on their MIDI 2.0 implementation, it will be there in v7.1: github.com/juce-framework/JUCE
- Cross Platform MIDI C++ Library: github.com/jcelerier/libremidi
DAWs
- Apple Logic Macos/iOS: www.apple.com/de/logic-pro/
- MultitrackStudio 10: www.multitrackstudio.com/vers... - Hudba
the point for me is: I want to see hardware with knobs and key sensors which can provide the midi 2.0 value spectrum. What I won’t buy is midi 2.0 capable Hardware that still hast the common velocity range of 0-127. This is the case for the new Korg Keystage and NI Kontrol S MK3 as far as I could read in the manuals.
Oh, wow, had to see this myself. It seems it only supports MIDI-CI.
What I also don't like is that this Roland keyboard doesn't have any display. Something like that should be standard these days. I want to be able to see on the display which bank and which instrument is selected.
Thanks for the informative video. From the information provided, I conclude that normal MIDI cables with DIN plugs and sockets are no longer used for MIDI 2.0 functionality.
That's correct. Currently, USB is specified and the ethernet specification is expected soon.
@@mossgraber Thanks.
Thank you for another great overview 🌻 I think a big request for interested persons and newbies could be the use cases. So when do you need Midi 2.0, when is it nice to have and when you don't need it. Having all features is always great, but if you never use it, maybe you can save some money (and time) if you start investing in new gear. Because of all that Tech stuff, it would be very interesting to create some scenarios especially for beginners so they get a clue what is really important apart from product featureism since Midi 2.0 is backward compatible and can integrate Midi 1.0 devices easily.
You are absolutely right! But I need something working with MIDI 2.0 first 😀
@@mossgraber absolutely. Some manufacturers should send you some devices for setting up different environments 👍
I own a a massive amount of unique drum recordings using analog sensors recorded into a DAW at 42bit 48khz. converting these tracks into midi 2.0 without loosing dynamic and time domain resolution would allow me to use these recordings in a variety of scenarios with the flexibility Midi was designed for. Not to mention certain techniques don’t translate well or at all to Midi 1.0.
I'm not so fussed about velocity improvements, in fact, it probably concerns me more that certain instrument sample sizes are going to go through the roof to appeal to MIDI 2.0 adopters, hope not though.
It's the MIDI-CI property/parameter exchange options that excites me most, I'm hoping that MIDI 2.0 will eventually offer some kind of css method of displaying plugin interfaces on controllers with screens, such as the Komplete Kontrol, Ableton Push. As with css make it scalable and add in support for a few standard screen aspects.
Obviously, on top of that the preset browsing and parameter mapping is what excites me too.
This should all be possible in theory, I just wonder how all these developers will come together and agree on a standard for elements like this as it's a competitive market and would more likely seek to develop their own integrations. I can't see why NI would undermine their own NKS system, and really it needs a big player like that to lead the way. Even Arturia are tied in with NKS.
Sample sizes are already insane while at the same time modelling techniques provide more dynamic like Pianoteq.
@@mossgraber I do wonder how a MIDI 2.0 software sampler will look in future, as we've become so used to the 127 velocity zones. I presume it will be done via velocity percentage ranges in future. And then that percentage scales to the velocity settings on the controller.
@@Skijumptoes Would be interesting to check if this is not already the case since plugin protocols can already do this for quite some time.
@@Skijumptoes A DAW could support both. A percentage indication and an indication of the absolute value. And depending on what you have set, you will see one or the other.
The Korg KeyStage is now buyable. $700 US at Sweetwater.
The new Native Instruments MK3 S Series has MIDI 2. I'm curious to see what can be done with the onboard computing device. Do you think you'll be able to work with it or is it even worth it for you since it already has basic DAW control? I'm mostly interested in a Bitwig integration.
Ah, right, NI announced MIDI 2.0 as well, totally forgot about it. However, I might be wrong but I think they will not implement MIDI-CI since this would somehow male their NKS redundant. The NI keyboards make only sense if you are fully into the NI ecosystem and do not use anything else. Furthermore, DAW control is pretty limited.
A new midi standard every 100 years.
I guess that suits the dinosaurs at Yamaha, Roland or Korg, who have been sitting on their behind for decades, doing nothing but recycling the same sound samples and putting them in a box that looks different from the previous one. Many of their so called new machines even sound a lot worse than what they made in the 80's or 90's.
Thanks for keeping us updated on Midi 2.0, but I'm not impressed with the progress. The manufacturers don't seem to care.
🙂 It is always difficult if manufacturers need to agree on a standard. At least it is happening and there seems to be even if slow progress.
Keep on yapping.
Would it be possible to add MIDI 2.0 support to Bitwig via a plugin? I'm considering the Korg (it's out), but I use Bitwig...
No, this needs to be integrated in Bitwig first. I guess we will see support for MIDI 2.0 mid/end of next year.
Here’s the feature I would like to see in MIDI 2.0. By wearing small sensors on each of my 10 fingers, I would like to have midi record which finger is playing which note, as I improvise. Then using this new midi data, notation of improvisations will become far simpler. Here's to the future.
Isn't that what MIDI gloves can already do? I guess more of a question what to do with the data.
I don't know if the current breed can do it yet. Plus the ones I've seen are too bulky and would hinder technical playing. I'm hoping something will come along some day which will be so seamless, the player would barely know he has anything on his hands. @@mossgraber
I hope Roland will also release a version of the A88 MKII with less than 88 keys (A61, A49, whatever). Even more I hope that Arturia will implement Midi 2.0 in their Keylab series. From the 2 keyboards I don't really like the Korg (watched some review) and 88 keys is probably too large. But the first steps are made and I hope others will follow soon.
I guess we will see more keyboards in the not too far future. Still hoping for a 76 key with a built in audio interface and MIDI 2.0 would be the icing on the cake :-)
@@mossgraber Indeed, a 61, 76 synth action Roland controller midi 2.0 with Galaxias would be insane.
@@Rialas Love 76 keys! But the Roland Cloud is something I will stay away as far as possible.
@@mossgraber The bulk of my sounds are hardware based, fantom, integra etc, I'm just dabbling with Roland cloud, so I do understand your reservations.
For me 88 keys are the minimum. I am used to play piano, so i need all of them.
What products that are currently released over the past 2 years with displays do you think can be upgraded to midi 2.0 simply via a firmware?
Tough question. Since you mention displays, I guess you are after MIDI-CI. I am not 100% sure but I heard that this might even work via Din5 cables. Question is which companies will really update old products. I guess they favour bringing out new devices with a MIDI 2.0 logo.
@@mossgraber Yeah I guess those products with usb would have a good chance as long as there was enough memory space to include more code to handle the property exchange and mapping.
What advantages do plugins have with midi2.0?
Besides the fine grained control the most interesting feature is MIDI-CI, which means that you can display and edit the parameters of the plugin automatically on a hardware device.
its missing a guitar capture accessory. this will change production profoundly in enough time.
OK you just skipped right by Audio Units. I mean I get it Bitwig being your main DAW, but as far as I know Audio Units on Mac 100% supports MIDI 2.0, So theorietically Digital Performer, Live, Reaper, and Studio One etc. could support MIDI 2.0 right now. :) Also I'm curious, does MIDI 2.0 support parameter automation standards like Bitwig does right now but without being tied to a single DAW? That, would be great if it does.
Argh, that was not intentional ❤
It's the reflex of any sane human being. Ignoring Apple that is.
@@ataturu Yes Apple are the problem with MIDI 2.0 coming out because of how little they care about it, oh wait that would be Microsoft? Funny how even in a comments section of a video on tech that Microsoft are holding up, some dipsh*t needs to start Mac VS PC BS.
AU is locked into apple systems. When vst is supported across both and also Linux with some work around. So for people collaborating VST is the standard for that very reason. I have never used AU but it's cool that it does offer that but apple being apple are not the most flexible when it comes to sharing their software.
@@StevenSmethurst If you know the history behind AU you would know it wasn't about Apple wanting to lock people into their software, it was about very poorly ported VSTs crashing the Mac version of Logic, and in general Windows specific code being left in VSTs by developers that caused issues. Over the years it's better, but that was 100% the original reason, bad VST ports were making Mac OS seem "unstable". Look how long it's taken for VST3 to become a standard? over a decade, that's how "fun" it is to code for. Hopefully CLAP solves all of this but AU exists because VST can be unstable on Mac OS.
I don't mean to be offensive, I have an accent aswell but the way you say "2.0" gets me every time! Very informative tho, thanks! 🙏
Working on it since the eighties 😀
@@mossgraber doing good. at least you don't sound seppo
Not everyone speaks English in this world. Can you speak German? I bet your German accent would SUCK if you did
any word on a wireless component to this update??? midi over wifi or blutooth or even radio dongles..... would be great
I guess that is part of the network specification, which is currently worked on and is not yet public.
@@mossgraber its a long overdue feature... So lets hope so
You can assume that this will work. The MIDI 2.0 packets will most likely be wrapped in TCP/IP packets and it doesn't matter how you transport them - Ethernet, WiFi, fiber optics or even Power over Ethernet.
The MIDI Association uploaded a video on the subject 2 weeks ago on their YT channel. The MIDI 2.0 packets are transmitted using UDP packets, not TCP.
i wanna make a plugin with Midi 2.0
Go for it!
Cubase implemented Midi 2.0 on windows already!
Yes, we just had this discussion on a German forum. It seems that they are installing a developer preview of the windows driver.
I contacted Steinberg regarding regarding Velocity and time domain specs. In their Midi 2.0 implementation.
Steinberg Never responded with a pertinent answer . They replied twice asking me if my question was answered ( I sent two independent support tickets asking this very question). I replied “ no Steinberg never answered to my inquiry”. So fat Funk stille!
I am somewhat disappointed of your video. Particularly the part where you look at plugin formats. VST3.7 supports MIDI 2.0? I understand that you might try to simplify things but this is just the wrong question and therefore the wrong statement. I know VST3 gets dissed by quite a few people, seems like you are one of them, but the actual good thing about it is, that VST3-plugins don't need to speak either MIDI 1.0 or 2.0, they only speak VST3. It is the host that takes care of MIDI 2.0. So, as soon as the host has MIDI 2.0 support so will any VST3 plugin.
The great thing for developers and users: there is no need for any update of the plugins.
I am not sure why you decided to say what you said, but I am calling you out in this particular area.
I don't get what your point is. VST 3.7 supports now MIDI 2.0 and that's what I said. Announcement can be e.g. found here: www.midi.org/midi-articles/vst-3-7-sdk-includes-midi-2-0-support
@@mossgraber So you say "Clap is good, VST is bad" but you actually don't know what you are talking about. Try to find out in what way there is MIDI 2.0 support in the SDK. Good luck.
@@klaubaWhile I am always open to learn new things and have no problem to be corrected, I stay away from people who keep insulting me. And I didn't say "Clap is good, VST is bad". I said I prefer CLAP and there are many good reasons for that which I laid out in my first CLAP video and are not only technology wise.