Royal Mail trains to run no more, inside the Severn Tunnel & priorities for new Government | Ep 41
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- Is Royal Mail quitting rail after 194 years? Royal Mail announces that it will scrap its trains, but tells us it will continue to use rail services. The question is… how much?
Louise Haigh becomes Transport Secretary and Lord Peter Hendy is appointed a Minister at the Department for Transport. We examine their in-trays and key priorities.
Richard gets to go underground in the Severn Tunnel on a very special trip to find out about major track renewals through this monster of a tunnel.
And the brand-new Northumberland Line fares are announced - with some brilliant offers!
Credits:
Pictures and footage used in this episode were provided by Creative Commons License (The Basingstoker), Northern, Liverpool City Region Combined Authority and by Open Government License.
In this episode:
00:00 Intro
03:07 Royal Mail quits rail?
12:21 Railway news round-up
12:39 LNER bonus payments to managers
14:15 Liverpool Baltic Station
15:49 Railway vandalism in Sileby
16:41 Tyne & Wear Metro completes first daytime run of new rolling stock
17:31 Severn Tunnel visit
33:19 General Election result
41:20 Louise Haigh and Peter Hendy’s in-trays and priorities
59:47 The Quiz
01:02:35 Northumberland Line fares
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Credits:
Presenters - Nigel Harris (@railnigel on X) & Richard Bowker CBE (@SRichardBowker). General Manager: Stef Foster (@stefatrail)
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I missed the live podcast due to attending a retired railway colleagues lunch at York. Trying to spread the word.
As a young signalling design engineer in the mid 1980s, I had to walk through the Severn tunnel one night to measure up for a cabling system in connection with a new alarm and telephone system to be located in the refuges. We arranged to meet up with a local PW gang at Severn Tunnel Junction who were to be our guide and lookout. They insisted we met in the local staff club and bought us a couple of pints of Brains to 'sharpen the senses' before heading out towards the Welsh portal (it was the 80s!). After walking through the entire length to the English end and completing our survey we walked back to Sudbrook and took the lift up to the pumping station where we were met to be taken back to the station. The local men at the time could detect a train approaching ages before it arrived just by subtle changes in pressure. The Brains must have worked!
Alcohol to 'sharpen the senses'!!!!! What a terrifying notion - a totally different world then compared to now, thank goodness!
@@GreenSignals It was the 80!
Nowt wrong with the 80s. Hi viz around my waist , shirt off while shoveling. 😁👍@@marktownend8065
Hi Guy's I decided to respond to your request for people living abroad to contact you. So here we go, I live in Shanghai and accidentally stumbled upon your site on utube. I immediately subscribed and have been an avid watcher ever since. Fantastic content and very entertaining. Congratulations on your research and the interviews you manage to secure. Carry on the good work it is great to listen and get a little update on the UK rail network. Very best regards David Sewell, originally from East Yorkshire.
Thought he was going to say Johnny Cash 'Hear My Train A Comin''. Anyway, selling the Royal Mail in 2017 was a crime in itself.
Please do not give him any more ideas to break into song....
I can't believe these videos are over an hour long - the time just flies by.
Excellent editing on the Severn tunnel item. You captured everything perfectly on this once in a decade event.
Could you do a similar item on the Royal Albert Bridge over the Tamar.
Thanks Steve. I confess I was a bit concerned when I started reading that opening sentence - but I relaxed fairly quickly!
Glad you enjoyed the Severn Tunnel piece - The Royal Albert Bridge would be wonderful, although I don't even know if something is possible. It would also have to be Stef or Nigel as I have a truly debilitating fear of heights. Hence why I'm fine in a tunnel!
Another listener from Christchurch, New Zealand. Just discovered your podcast on You Tube. Loved it! Thanks guys, from Blinky
Thanks and welcome aboard Blinky!
Still loving the podcast, the time, effort and dedication which goes into these each week and not forgetting the specials which all makes for great listening, the kids at home are fed up of me putting Green signals on so that must be a sign your are doing a great job!
Excellent! Now the challenge is to convert them into Green Signallers too...
@@GreenSignals it’s working on the wife, the teenager could be easily persuaded but with the 5 year old you have a challenge there!
There’s never been a greater need to get goods back on rail, our road system is at saturation point and replace fast electric trains with more lorries is ludicrous, letter mail demand is a shadow of its former self but this has far been outweighed by the huge increase in small parcel traffic.
The cost of electricity will be a factor, but more likely cessation of the remaining rail traffic is more likely the start of asset stripping of Royal Mail by Kretinsky.
I'm not sure there are that many rail assets in RM to strip.
@@GreenSignals I meant Royal Mail in general.
Been listening to the audio version since day one. This was my first video viewing, what a great one to be greeted with! The Seven tunnel footage was fascinating. Great episode as always.
Glad you enjoyed your first video version! We try to make sure that audio only listeners don't miss out on all the fun, but of course you get something that bit special by watching it too.
As an Ex Warrington taxi driver, I used to drop off Mail unit driver,s to the Dallam Depot.They informed me their train had priority only surpassed by a Royal Train! As an aside, Fiddler,s Ferry coal train,s kept 56 road wagon,s off the road per MGR! Times 24 train,s a day at peak.
Thanks Richard Nigel & Steff 😊For the most interesting railway channel by far giving us the most up to date information about what’s really happening on railway with great humour thrown in making it fun to watch.
I loved Rail magazine for years but this beats it hands down. Well done all of you and keep up with the podcast Stevie 👍🏻
You are really kind Stevie! Thanks for being so generous and glad you love the show. We have plenty of new ideas planned....!
How about the Swiss system. GA annual ticket 3995 CHF (£3461) for adults, 3040 CHF (£2634) for over 65s. A second class ticket for almost every public train, tram, bus, most boats and some cable cars (discount for others) for any time on every day in the entire country!! This makes commuting and holidays super simple. Totally achievable.
The only reason this is not done in the UK is that transport is run and financed by amateurs who play games but will not spend proper money.
It would be interesting to know the ratio between taxpayer support and farepayer contribution in Switzerland. It is after all a high cost system to operate.
@@GreenSignals The infrastructure is especially challenging in the mountainous parts, i.e. most of the country! The valley topography and associated development patterns help to concentrate population along valley floors however which tends to funnel traffic along narrow corridors. That makes rail convenient and essential to moderate road traffic on the valley roads. If they've got to maintain all that infrastructure anyway to run any kind of service, they might as well try to use it as much as possible. Similarly, if there's subsidy required for operations, they might as well carry as many people as possible for a given figure. Their policies seem to have ensured Switzerland is second only to Japan in public transport usage. There are some fringe 'motor freedom' lobby groups but generally transport hasn't become a significant political issue as in some nations. There's broad consensus across the spectrum that good alternatives to the car are positive and necessary. The result, rather like the Netherlands, is a good road network and generally happy drivers, partly because the roads rarely become heavily congested when many people are able to choose alternatives.
Well said. The main difference between the UK and Switzerland is that the Swiss regard rail transportation as a social necessity and the Swiss population, by and large, accept the need for significant taxpayer subsidy. Even those that don’t regularly use them accept that encouraging travel by rail means that it benefits those that use the road and, given that all the railways have overhead electric power, it benefits the environment.
Great episode, we loved the Severn Tunnel portion, Paul used to regularly visit the tunnel 25 years ago when he was Ops Manager Sth Wales. Great to see safety measures to keep people including Richard safe in the tunnel. Keep going with a great series. Paul; & Fiona - Headshunt Mental Health Charity.
Sir Peter Hendy was famously a shy and awkward public speaker until the day he went and kissed the Blarney Stone, The Legend is true ☘️
Right.🤦♂️
Thank you for another very interesting and insightful episode!
You're most welcome Chris!
Thank you so much for your weekly bulletins. So full of informative content and rail news that I would otherwise not be aware of. Embarking on a Saturday,14 hour day time rail journey from Royston to Thurso with 4 changes of train, hoping all connections will go smoothly.
Mike from Royston
Cheers Mike and really appreciate the super thanks! Do hope you enjoy the trip to Thurso. My memories of it are behind class 26s then later 37s. Not sure it's quite the same railway experience these days - but at least it is still there!
Thank you so much for your kind comments. All ran on time today, no missed connections. Now on 5th and final leg to Thurso passing Muir of Ord. LNER leg from Peterborough to Edinburgh overcrowded due to earlier cancellations. Edinburgh to Inverness on a 46 year old HST, again over crowded, 4 carriages not enough. Sadly showing their age, unhygenic toilet facilities. Thurso/Wick left 10 mins late as had to wait for late running inbound Glasgow service, but infomed will make up the time. Excellent wifi and USB charging. Also miss old 26s/27s/37s had character with Mark 1s and run arounds.
Thanks for clarifying the issues around mail on rail. I had already seen a statement from RM where they said they'd continue to use a mix of road rail and air. The more widely publicised DB statement did not mention this at all. The 'only 3%' figure is a bit disingenuous rather like passenger figures on rail generally. If that's measured in letter/parcel kms, it doesn't accurately represent the much larger proportion on specific trunk longer distance corridors for which rail is viable. I expect the real issue, along with any fleet condition concerns, is the contract with DB for their upkeep and operation. A different operator might find a way to insulate the customer more from short term fluctuations in traction power charges among other varied conditions. There might be opportunities for new player Varamis to take over this business. It's interesting the new prospective owner of RM is a nascent player in the UK electricity generation market with gas, biomass and grid level storage installations already. Daniel Křetínský's background is firmly in gas, making huge profits in recent times from the Slovakian national pipeline system in which he owns a 49% stake and which is (still) imports Russian gas to Eastern Europe. He previously acquired many former communist era state industry assets in various countries, not in initial privatisation rounds but soon after from those first buyers. He is also now investing in media and sports interests, including Le Monde and West Ham. Le Monde journalists had an industrial dispute over it fairly recently.
Thanks! I've been actively spreading the good word to my rail friends
Marvellous - thanks so much Chris - and for the super thanks!
Hang on, the 325s were parked once in the past!
Another great episode, thank you!
Thanks Robert, glad you enjoyed it!
Having experts in Government for the first time in nearly a decade and a half feels so refreshing... 👍
pmsl
Indeed it is refreshing.
Fascinating article on the Severn Tunnel. Bravo 👏🏻
Thanks, it was a rare privilege so we were delighted to be able to share it!
Great show again!
Thanks John!
Great show and the quiz is a bit of a tricky one this week
Cheer Richard - and glad you think it's a bit of a brainteaser....!
.Re Royal Mail story , ......" and there's a slow , slow train runnin' " , might be appropriate . As I wrote elsewhere , this has been on the cards for a while , possibly why they didn't change the Royal crest from ER to CR on the side of the units . Great video as usual , cheers .
Re the crest, I think you may be giving someone, somewhere too much credit!
Great to see you have been in Pilningshire looking at the Seven Tunnel Richard ,shame you didn't have time to look in and see what's left of the most loved least used Station that once was Piling high level..
It's sadly underused these days with only two trains a week calling and that's only on a Saturday and both trains are in the same direction up only
Great show again this week especially pleased to see Lord Hendy appointed.
Excellent video my friends awesome like 👍🏻 Greeting 👋🏻 from Argentina
Welcome to Green Signals!!
Hi Both. I really look forward to each week, probably what could be quite technical is easy to understand, covers an incredible breadth of topics, and now I approach middle age, I even appreciate the"old boy" humour!
Wandered if there might be a story in the availability of lifts at stations. A friend of mine who uses a wheelchair commutes into London. Lifts at both Stevenage and Welwyn Garden City have been out of orders for weeks / months. As a Stevenage resident, he either has to take the train to HItchin or Haltfield and get a taxi. It is great that so many stations are now accessible, but not if the kit doesn't work for long periods. It just got me thinking about what the picture is like nationally.
Hi Green Signals folks! Tuning in (so to speak) from Perth in Western Australia. Will be heading back to the UK shortly to partake in the first visit of a Class 40 to Skegness in 40 years! Maybe see you on the train Richard, given your avid Whistler enthusiasm?
Hi Mike
Lovely to hear from you in Perth - which is also where my wife grew up going to school, university and starting her career there. Love the place and especially heading down south (though for reasons I can't imagine, I always struggle going any further than Margaret River.......!)
Sadly I won't be on the Skegness trip. I have a prior commitment that day that it would be bad to cancel. But I shall be there in spirit!
Enjoy....
Cheers. Richard
Just to add to your geographical spread, I am a confirmed fan of Green Signals in Taiwan. Thanks for a great show and keeping me up to date on railway affairs in the UK.
Fantastic! You're very welcome. Glad you enjoy the show.
With the mail story surely the biggest issue is lack of lorry drivers, where will they get them from?
Agree, electricity prices need to drop.
Excellent trip into the tunnel. Really interesting having a vibrating safety device.
Great 6 point plan with all the right priorities. Action needed now. Don't forget about resilience and issues caused by micro managing crew rostering by software.
Be interested in your views on Virgins proposed open access plans which are so extensive they are actually an alternate rail service.
35mins for £3 is great value.
Thanks Allan. I think Virgin's west coast open access plans need knocking on the head and quickly. We will not fix the performance issues on Avanti by bringing on aboard a competing operator. Rather, we will simply make the performance challenge on the route greater whilst abstracting considerable amounts of money from the public purse.
Wonderful PR. Lousy idea.
The writing was on the wall for rail when they removed the TPOs and shut rail colkections at Crewe Station. This was followed in 2013 by shutting Crewe RM Sorting Centre and moving to Wolverhampton, retaining Warrington Rail Centre. Mail from Newcastle under Lyme to Newcastle under Lyme is now transported to Wolverhampton, sorted and brought all the way back to Newcastle under Lyme. Crazy,!
The TPOs really had had their day as an operation and the end of those was inevitable and sensible.
I fear the big question is for how much longer are we going to require the kind of Royal Mail letter and parcel service that we have all grown up with. Very different world today than in the not that distant past.
@@GreenSignals I wondered whether it might be possible to operate automated sorting machinery on a moving train. I also thought about recreating the historic on the move collection and delivery functionality using drone technology. Landside posties could await a delivery in a safe roadside landing area rather than having to go trackside. Then I realised the OHLE might be a problem! Realistically, stopping onboard sorting was the right thing to do. Railnet was a good system originally envisaged with BR division Rail Express Systems. Unfortunately new owners EWS appear to have run it into the ground. There's an article about it somewhere by a seniorl manager of the time. They refused to give the immensely time sensitive traffic sufficient attention or resources, treating it as if it was just another aggregates working. The gauge corner cracking crisis following Hatfield also had a catastrophic effect, slowing many major routes simultaneously.
Another enlightening and fascinating episode, really interesting to see the Severn Tunnel close up, and on the more important topic of Labour's approach, let's hope they can translate their words into actions pretty quickly. They could do far worse than listening to you two! Cheers, Rob
Cheers Rob, And thanks so much for the Super Thanks! Really appreciated.
If it’s only handling 3% of the mail,that’s in itself very sad. Nothing can compete with rail in terms of speed and efficiency. Why send it by road?
This channel came up in my feed for the first time and I have subscribed. Y Rhath (Cardiff).
Well are more than welcome aboard! Thanks for subscribing!
Really enjoyed this weeks show as always - especially appreciated the segments on the Severn Tunnel as well as the clarification on the Mail train situation.
Every time I hear about them doing major works in the Severn Tunnel, I do wonder, wouldn't a tunnel just be a lot easier and cheaper in the long term, both when it comes to the physical costs of asset upkeep and replacement, but also the disruption to traffic (which yes, is well planned to be as minimal as possible, but isn't non-existent). But there's also the idea that should, and I really hope not, any mistake happen in those tunnels during the frequent maintenance work like the drainage being damaged the tunnel flooding, there is no other good alternative to cross the river. As much as I'd love the extra traffic through my area, it'd never be practical in the long term to send all the traffic through Gloucester here should the tunnel become unusable, for just so many reasons. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I do think there'd be a lot of benefit to having an new tunnel under the Severn, albeit be a full replacement or to supplement what we already have.
As for the Rail situation, I have to agree that's it's quite wild that in an age where we need to be cutting down on our carbon footprint, Royal Mail seem to be pushing for an expansion of road transport. I think you covered a lot of points on here well enough, so I won't mention those, but maybe one of the bigger issues with it at the moment is the fact that in this Multiple Unit era, Mail trains are harder to implement, and for a lot of places, there's not enough demand for dedicated Mail Trains. Ofc, the 325s work well atm, but as far as I know, they travel the E/WCML north and south, likely cause there would be the demand for it. But of course, back in the day when things were loco hauled, it wouldn't be uncommon to have a parcels wagon of some sort on the rear of passenger trains. So, of course I'm not saying we should go back to the old way of doing things, but maybe the answer is to try and find a way to replicate this in the modern world, and get mail back on passenger trains in some form in a way. Maybe the first step could be mail wagons on the back of the Caledonian or Riviera sleepers, helping increase their profitability. But, who knows, there's usually a lot of nuance and complexities in these situations, and it may be less feasible than I think.
Really can't see anyone making a business case (on financial, economic or social grounds) for a new tunnel. What Network Rail are doing now is effective, preventative maintenance and renewals.
I'm afraid your suggestion of adding wagons on the back of trains just wouldn't work for a whole host of operational reasons. But I agree we do need to think a little out of the box....
@@GreenSignals Yes, that's true, without a business case for it, then yeah, no new tunnel would ever happen. I guess my view point is just with how how hostile the conditions are in the tunnel, then a new tunnel would just make everyone's lives much easier. Of course, matters are never that straight forward though, and like I said at the beginning, it's more so just whimsical wonderings on my part really. But I just wanted to make it clear that I think NR are doing a great job keeping on top of it despite all the environment of the tunnel really working against them.
Also thought I should provide clarity on my mail ideas - idea wasn't to put wagons on the back of every train, would never work like you say. I only mentioned sleeper trains as small example, since sleeper trains are still loco hauled and their timetabling would probably work in favour of it, but there's probably factors I'm not thinking of there.
Great to see Royal Mail ticking that sustainability box.
Quite.
Interesting. This was a bit of a surprise to me though as I had thought that mail by rail had already more or less ceased in the early 2000's. I'll never forget seeing a massive investment being made on a sorting centre in Tonbridge in the mid 1990's, attended by the then quite new 325's, only to see it closed and abandoned just a few short years later. Surely mail by rail is better in every respect than by road, and the 325's are only about 30 years old.
Yes, the decisions taken some 20 years ago were short even by the short timeframes that so often bedevils the railway when it comes to investment.
I think you’re confusing this with the TPOs that ceased in 2004. Those were trains where Mail was sorted on board. The 325s were introduced as a direct link for pre sorted mail by rail in and out of London to various destinations. Royal Mail own the fleet of 325s but they’re operated and maintained by DB Cargo. As the fleet ages maintenance costs are growing and RM has decided it’s cheaper to hire a private operator’s trains instead of their own.
@@winco68 Yes, I realise that. Aside from the trains, My main point is that, using the Tonbridge rail centre as an example as I passed it whilst commuting every day, there was clearly a highly significant investment in, not only a large mail hub, but new track, points, bridge work, signalling and all the rest, for it to be abandoned after only a few years.
@@NewCityMedia Yes that was typical of Royal Mail and its short sighted approach at that time. A fortune was wasted in the creation of new rail hubs at mail processing centres. Nine were created in the mid ‘90s but due to a policy change in 2003 it was decided to move mail onto the roads. This was due to a combination of alleged poor performance by EWS that was affecting quality and an assumption that point to point would become quicker by road with an improving motorway network.
Incidentally just a year after the switch some direct mail was switched back to rail utilising some of the mothballed hubs. In the intervening years traffic has increased and 4 of the original rail hubs were reintegrated back into the network although Tonbridge wasn’t included. That has been pretty much the case until now with Willesden, Warrington, Shieldmuir and Low Fell seeing regular daily trains. Due to the Network 24 review the train up the WCML continues but the ECML trains to Low Fell have been cancelled. A new spur to link the Midlands Super Hub at Daventry has been completed but as yet no trains have used it. I’m told the intention is to run trains from there to Glasgow via Warrington. Which trains and operated by who is anyone’s guess at the moment.
@@winco68 Hi there. If you had a moment to email us on info@greensignals.org, would love to chat in a bit more detail about this subject. Cheers. Richard
Thanks!
Thanks so much Robert, we very much appreciate your support.
Great stuff again guys 👍🏻 What a shame about RM moving away from rail 😢 Hopefully some modern rolling stock can be found and converted to carry letters and small parcels 🤔 I drive a truck but my load can’t go by rail as it’s a fixed MRI scanner in a artic lorry. But what I do see is the massive congestion on our motorways especially south of Preston and now around Glasgow and Edinburgh. So this can only get worse ☹️
Yes, it is a shame indeed. Fingers crossed someone can come up with a cost effective solution that means rail can at least participate.
What you guys were saying about complexity....
I've worked for donkeys years in procurement in huge international oil and gas projects.
I spent two years at HS2 and the complexity of the procurements I was involved in, of every step of the process and of the attached governance was just ridiculous. It takes a huge team 2 years to do something I would have done on my own, in my oil and gas work a few months at most.
To this day I wish I could get a shot at redesigning their procurement process and getting rid of a lot of the complexity (and the additional work they create to try to make it less likely that they'll get challenged in the courts, which I felt actually could give people looking for a way to challenge stuff they don't like more to argue about.
Probably not the biggest priority on the railway but the W and Wales could probably really do with a 2nd Severn Tunnel running from Parkway to Magor.
I fear you are correct........it's not the biggest priority by some distance!
Liked your comment on electricity prices for the electrified network when discussing mail by rail. Yet another case of too far too fast to achieve nett zero.
The new station is named after the Baltic Triangle, which is close by, it will be built at the site of the old St James Station that closed in 1917!!
Excellent, thanks for letting us know about that!
Thanks
How very kind, thank you Allan.
Great discussion. Gone are the days when inter-city trains had brake coaches where mail sacks could be stowed. That enabled the obvious practice of carrying passengers and mail at the same time. Maybe one day that simple concept will be reinvented??
I fear those days are gone too - A multiple unit railway is here to stay......
There simply isn’t enough letter traffic to justify nowadays anyway. Today the majority of letters are non urgent advertising material or hard copies of things emailed previously. Over 90% of traffic is parcels which are containerised and too bulky for stowage by rail unless on a dedicated service.
Thanks from us all at The Independent Brigg Line Rail Group.
Sir Peter Hendy needs to spend as much time out of the office and visiting the railway network and communities, don't get into the comfort zone, visit places on forgotten lines and communities.
Thanks - really, really appreciate your support.
Totally agree with Peter - but I know from experience that he likes nothing better than getting out and about and talking to people at their point of need. Very positive feeling about that.
Liverpool Baltic - "A historic industrial area, it has numerous maritime connections, getting its name from the many companies based in the area which trade with the Baltic countries."
Excellent, Thanks for that!
Fabulous inside look to the Severn Tunnel works! However, as somebody living in Newport, we lose 3 trains an hour between Bristol and Cardiff during these closures as the Cardiff-Taunton's, Cardiff-Portsmouth's and weekday daytime Cardiff-London's all get cancelled this side of the bridge with no capacity replacement, and with the lack of road provision the XC Cardiff-Nottingham services and TfW Cardiff-Cheltenham's are suggested as alternative services to get people to Bristol (change at Gloucester), increasing how busy these services are. The Gloucester route has had trouble this week with axle counter failures and there's been numerous earthwork issues over the past few years, the route isn't really a reliable diversion as it stands. Many trains have been severely delayed. I feel the TOCs need to come up with a better plan to manage demand during these periods, especially when it goes on for over 2 weeks (and it's shut again over the weekend of 27/28 July!).
Hard to see how it is possible to come up with a plan any better than the one they have done. Closing the tunnel for extended periods is really the only cost effective solution. At least it's nothing like motorway maintenance when sections can have contraflows and serious disruption for months on end.
Rail mail does make sense for moving over distance to regional hubs, then out to sorting offices, rather than relying on lorries. The Daventry site for home counties north, if one in Birmingham, Manchester, then in Scotland the amount of parcels / post moving from one end of the UK to the other is quicker than sorting office to sorting office. May help taking on moving other companies parcels? More major companies switching to rail, look at how Daventry has grown.
I'm from the Tyne and wear and used to travel around on the tracks on the dmu 101's while seeing the transition to the Tyne and wear metro and still waiting for the new trains to enter passengers service as the new trains we can walk from one end to another without leaving the train as the old trains consist of two carriages coupled together
I wonder what people think about the new trains as the seats go along the sides of the train and has less seats than the old trains
Visually, the new trains look great - but I agree, it depends on what passengers think when they start to use them.
There are only a few stations on the Tyne & Wear Metro where capacity is an issue.
It is mainly a high acceleration railway not a high capacity tramway. The comfortable seats with views out the front and rear of the carriages made the Metro special.
The people of the North East are communicative and the booths allow for conversations between friends and acquaintances. Switching to a tube-like layout would dull the atmosphere on these trains.
It doesn't always pay to copy everyone else.😢
First time I've come across this channel - impressed. For a future feature why not ask Transport Scotland what rolling stock they are going to use come next year to operate services on the newly electrified East Kilbride to Glasgow route. Transport Scotland haven't ordered any new rolling stock (too late now anyway) and there ain't any spare EMU's in Scotland right now.
The team size issue is very difficult to resolve. I worked for a time on a very large Rail Project. I was part of a cost control team & we all found it almost impossible to persuade managers to reduce their teams even as they moved their part of the program to fruition.
It requires a ruthless approach. Some can do it - but most can't (although I recognise you have to be in a position of authority to be able to make it happen).
I listen from Sunny Southern Ontario, and I really enjoy catching up on railway chat. Frankly, I thought they had already stopped using rail for mail.
Great to hear from you in sunny (really?) southern Ontario!
Only kidding - Toronto is one of my favourite cities in the world - many happy evenings at Maple Leaf and Blue Jay games (though prefer hockey if I'm honest!)
Another great podcast and I agree with you both something has to be done about confusing fares and trying to operate like an airline won't work for those who want short distance turn up an go travel. As an example if the weather is nice tomorrow I fancy a 14 mile trip down the ECML from Newcastle to Durham but there appears to be atleast 4 different fares ranging from £3,80 to £5.20 for the same 11 minute journey depending on the operator Simply by standing on the platform for 4 minutes to catch a Trans Pennine rather than a Cross Country train I can save £1.20 or almost 25% of the cost of the 11 minute journey
A confused Geordie.
It does need something like a price promise guarantee, I agree. Whichever operator you get, you get the cheapest fare for that journey.
I have to say having seen a Royal Mail unit going past my train the other week I was surprised they were still using rail at all, as I thought they'd ditched the tracks years ago!
I doubt most voters would know or care if trains carry mail. After all it was much more visible to the general public that some of their local posties used to cycle their rounds on Pashley bicycles for many decades, but that's been a thing of history for years now.
They did for awhile because the performance offered by Railtrack was so dire. But NR upped their game and just using their EMU Fleet (Class 325) RM returned to long-distance runs to Scotland (Shieldmuir), the Northwest (Warrington) and the North East (Low Fell)
It's certainly declined a lot over the years and, as you'll have heard in the show, they're already only transporting 3% by rail.
@@gordondudman240Low Fell is finished now. It’s only Willesden to Shieldmuir via Warrington now. Although the Midland Super Hub at Daventry has a rail connection built into it so there’s a possibility that trains may run into there at some stage via the WCML at Rugby.
Hello from Kansas 🇺🇲
Howdy from the UK and thanks for joining the channel - hope you like the show!
PS: forgot to ask Richard whether he found the "strategic reserve" of steam locos whilst inside the Severn Tunnel....?
Shhh! That’s meant to be a secret!!!
Greetings from Minnesota
Welcome to the growing band of International Green Signallers!
Thanks again. Keep up the good work. Some time ago I wrote to you about colour vision changes, did you receive it?
Hi Stephen. Thanks so much for the SuperThanks. Really very much appreciated.
No, I don't recall anything about colour vision changes. Did you send to info@greensignals.org?
Cheers. Richard
@Green Signals Love this podcast and listening to hear news around the railways such a great way to learn, QQ How would you recommend someone to work in a Customer Service Role or Achieve in London Area to work as a Station Staff or Dispatch,
I think this requirement to replace/update the Royal Mail trains are what the ROG 93’s are going to be for, dead hauling the 325’s until a replacement stock is bought or found.
The limited weight that the 93’s can haul on diesel, combined with how tight lipped ROG has been about what they’re for, puts all the pieces together for me.
The ridiculous cost of running trains on the overheads (the EC, essentially the electric bill) is still killing these developments off though.
The Baltic refers to the part of Liverpool docks that was historically associated with timber and other goods from Scandavia.
Ah, right, thankyou!!
Brilliant, thanks.
Re: Liverpool Baltic, so named as it will be in the Baltic Triangle area of the city centre. Ex industrial area, now home to various bars & restaurants.
Thanks!
got me in the video lmao
Problem with DIRFT is that is not electrified thus extra cost for loco to drag the units round the corner to the Mail Terminal
Very interested in Richard's General Election poll analysis comments. I hadnt heard elsewhere that a proportional representation system would have given us a Tory&Liberal Government - though does that not depend on the PR system employed? Sorry you didn’t give the Green Party figures equivalent to Reform and Liberal you did cover.
On the Post Office, surely didn't they abandon rail once before, only to then return with slimmed down network using the then new emu's?
In fairness Julian it's a somewhat artificial stat I created. The point has been made by other views, fairly, that there would have been an impact of tactical voting in this election and therefore had PR been the model from the outset, those tactical voters would have voted for their party of choice, not the one they did actually vote for on the day to achieve or at least try and achieve a tactical result.
Nigel mispronounced Newsham, it's pronounced Newsum. Keep up the good work though excellent podcast for keeping up to date. Thumbs up from me.
Cheers Paul and thanks for mentioning the pronunciation - I shall mention it to Nigel.
A lot......!
Great podcast I am one of the metro future specialists that are do the testing on the new 555s when do you think you will be coming up I will try and get you on the train for a look around
Cheers Doug
Thanks Doug. Really appreciate that. Not sure when yet, but hopefully fairly soon.
So the bar that supplies the power vice wires does the bar zig and zag like the wires or is it mitigated by a low carbon abrasion on the pantograph? As the wire drifts over the whole Pan head, whereas does the bar do the same or not needed is my question. Many thanks if you know the answer?
I'm a Postie, and our working hours have just been pushed back almost 2 hours at our delivery office (it's a different amount at each one dependent on its distance from its associated sorting centre) because, as we've been told by our overlords, Royal Mail is transitioning BACK to rail and AWAY from aircraft to reduce their carbon footprint (among other daft reasons).
Yes that’s partly correct. Network 24 review has stripped out most of the air network and Sprinter van road fleet in favour of the LGV road network which is limited to 56 MPH hence the later arrival times. Rail is still used but now confined to the West Coast route from London to Glasgow via Warrington. Newcastle has lost its rail service altogether.
We need more bus rail coach ferry integration lord peter Hendy the right man for this in England
Yes, a well thought through (though also cost effective) approach to integration would be welcome.
Getting a grip on costs. Think the post British Rail era managers at Network Rail never quite got the idea that if you don't keep costs within a certain margin then they will pull the plug. The South Wales Main Line electrification between Cardiff and Swansea as well as the GWML between Wotton Bassett and Temple Meads had to be stopped. You will need possible outside Project Managers from someone like Betchell at the beginning of projects.
Not Rocket Science, if a family wish to have a house extension or conservatory they never tell the builder how much money they have in the bank as that is what the project will end up costing, they will need some money left over for furniture etc. but Graduates with CV's that glow in the dark and young enthusiastic faces get taken for a ride at the tax payers expense.
There is no substitute for experience, I agree.
Not quite sure how RM are going to use a FOC to efficiently move mail by rail. It’s not like overnight delivery can be done by intermodal workings! May we be seeing RM wanting to outsource the running of trains to a certain up and coming rail logistics firm with some 321s….?
They did say they want to keep making use of rail to some extent in the future even if it's no longer on their own trains - so who knows!
Hi, from Massachusetts.
Hi John. You're most welcome to the International Green Signals team!
Mail is shrinking about 8%/year in the US. The only thing keeping the USPS open is Amazon packages
goodness, that's a dramatic rate of contraction!
Great really enjoyed the show once again. I was however surprised that you didn't mention in your news item that Scotrail have cut 600 services from their timetable. Has change of leadership in Scotland exacerbated this situation with the drivers?
Good question. It's just that we ran out of space! We're finding we have so many ideas for the show these days, that we can't fit everything in.
Will get to it next week though.....
@@GreenSignals Thanks, always a busy and great show as always it is a shame that Scotrail have introduced off peak fares to encourage more people to travel by rail then cut the timetable so drastically especially as there is so much happening in Scotland at this time, ie Transmit in Glasgow this weekend 100,000 expected and the British open at Troon next week
When will an announcement be made on the WCR exemption request.
Hi David, I'm afraid we don't know any more than you on that. We're continuing to ask for updates, but at the moment there's no more to say. Rest assured we'll be reporting on it as soon as we hear!
Re Royal Mail. I always understood that operators of electric locos "bought" electricity from Network Rail at that days spot rate. In contrast, diesel fuel, whether in locos or lorries can be bought on forward contract, and hence the price is hedged. Royal Mail, as a PLC can (and should) be free to make its decisions on a commercial basis. Cant see the Govt having any leverage with this, even less so if the Mail are substantial users of EVs anyway
Royal Mail did this many years ago, however, they found another train operator to carry on, this time, could it be down to the West Coast line due to get busier with passenger trains?
No, the access rights on the WCML will be a firm commitment in the relevant Track Access Contract.
Is it me! but when the Post Office finished with TPO, the service to the customer became less reliable. For example, today was 8 days for a letter to travel 8 miles after posting originally in London then road to Stamford Bridge.
Bibby Line came out of Liverpool and have done a lot of baltic trade for a very long time, probably no connection tho lol
3% here and 3% there . . . it adds up.
It does indeed
Gents, is the important part of D I R F T really R for rail or is it I for international?
Tesco and Eddie Stobart both have distribution hubs there so is DIRFT, the equivalent of the importation hub for Europe for rail borne freight container transport?
The Post Office has an international mail centre at Daventry for Customs clearance and import duties / levies. Not sure if this is a separate or shared facility with the rail yard or whether that covers airmail and packages by sea through facilities such as Heathrow, Southampton, etc.
Fair points. Not sure about Daventry being separate but will do a bit of digging.....
Royal Mail has 2 facilities at Daventry a mile apart. The one you refer to has no rail connection and is not near the rail freight facility. The newer larger one is the Midlands Super Hub which is alongside the yet to be opened DIRFT 3 rail freight terminal. Both the mail hub and the terminal yard are connected via a spur from the Tesco/Stobart rail terminal DIRFT 2 which is alongside the Northampton loop line that joins the WCML at Rugby.
here in South Australia boys...
Marvellous - and a lovely place it is too! Thanks for tuning in!
Wonder if they will sale the rail connected PRDC hub at Willesden.
I'm not sure it has been used for time has it?
Point of information: Daresbury is pronounced 'DARS' not 'DARES' - bury.
Excellent. Thanks for letting us know - important to get right!
why don't royal mail give VARIMIS a call im sure hr could manage another 3% in his half empty 321s i know he has 4 sets
im sure he would love the extra work he already delivers parcels from Mossend to birmingham on a daily basis
just a thought lads . thamks for all the info , great show take care a t b syd👍
👍👍
Cheers.
There are so many arguments that rail, rail freight and mail transportation should be nationalised and run on a not for profit basis.
Fascinating, though in 35 years I have never heard a signal argument in favour of rail freight nationalisation that would result in anything other than destroying the sector for good.
The rail freight companies are one of the true success stories of the last 25 years and need to be supported, not have their assets stolen from them.
Personal view, I confess........
Also home to Jackie Milburn (a cousin of the Charltons?)
Indeed! Mind you, I am still in shock that Nigel knew about the Charltons.....!
They quit twenty years ago. The refresh in 2022 was a half hearted attempt.
That was certainly the big change, yes.
The only bit they forgot to mention is that the catenary is already rusty ( from an inside source )
Don't need an inside source! We could see evidence of corrosion. It will need to be replaced on an enhanced periodicity because of the corrosive environment. Could also see sections of lovely new conductor rail as well.
i thin the neigbourhood of the new mersy rail station is callrd baltic quater because its where the shippiing industry had all there offices.
I am half way through and have ticked the like and I am typing a comment: Fascinating and $%^&^ ludicrous. I am referring to the sections on the Severn Tunnel and the Mail Trains.
[Rant begin] We have just scrapped a fleet of 365 units on which the Mail fleet was derived, surely enough spares for years to come. EV's are not used on the long runs that the trains currently do so this is more diesel trucks on the road, the mention of EV's by the mail is just a red herring. And while I am ranting, which "Royal" family will actually own it, a middle eastern one!!! [Rant End]
Cheers Andy. I think the new owner is Czech - but I take your point on the 365s.
I believe the long distance HGVs do run partly on HVO (Hydrotreated Vegetable Oii) which apparently reduces emissions by up to 90%.
Class 325s were derived from Class 319, not Class 365. They use the same traction pack as Class 319 with GEC Alsthom Traction DC motors and DC Chopper, not the AC traction pack of Class 365 - which is not to say that spare parts should not be available from redundant Class 319/769 units.
@@stuart48br Cheers Stuart, it's just the fronts were so alike, I assumed wrongly regarding their ancestry.
@@andyknott8148 I think that Derby built the cab as a complete wired sub-assembly whereas York built the cabs of Class 365 in situ. Interesting comment on Wikipedia "The units were built in such a way that they could easily be converted for passenger use if no longer required for mail services" - not sure how that would have worked.
@@stuart48br I remember that comment when they were built.
man im late again. looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say
Hope it was worth the wait!
Royal mail Transportation need discussion with the new Labour government,
Think it's far too late for that David.
knots or nots?
Knots
Chuck the mail in containers and yse the more frequent container trains
I'm fairly certain that such an idea will have been considered.....and discounted.
I do think.labour need to sort out the issue with railfreight. Im surprised with HS2 no parcel firms havw thought about running parcel.trains in the wvenings or early morning on hs2
Not really sure what needs sorting out with railfreight? Best thing politicans can do with railfreight is deliver the relatively small schemes that would make a massive difference (small sections of electrification infill for example) and then get completely out of the way.
The freight companies need a few (and it is generally a few) specific problems sorting that only government can fix and then they are more than capable of cracking on from there.