Bike packing is the same thing as cycle touring, its just a phrase that was invented to made cycle touring sound more cool and trendy. In my experience bike packing luggage is a triumph of marketing and fashion over performance and usability. The size, shape and attachment systems of bike packing bags, particularly wedge shaped seat packs, mean that they are restricted in capacity and difficult pack and to attach and remove from the bike. Traditional saddle bags such as Carradice are much better but not perfect, they work better with the specific saddle bag uplift racks and some aspects of the design could be modernised for better performance. More compact pannier racks are available such as the ones made by Tortec. Combined with a set of small panniers (those normally intended from the front) would make a great alternative to bike packing bags, being easier to attach and remove from the bike, easier to pack items into and will give more capacity than a combined wedge shaped saddle bag and handlebar bag. Rack top bags are also a great solution if you are concerned about panniers making the bike too wide or if aerodynamics are important. There are racks that attach to the saddle or seat post that will carry a drybag, These solve the tyre clearance issues but still have limited capacity. The Tailfin, in my opinion, is the best solution for bikes that don't have pannier rack mounts. However it is in reality a pannier system rather than a bike packing system. It would be good if Tailfin could produce a cheaper version, perhaps made of aluminium alloy rather than carbon fibre to keep costs down. My view is that pannier or rack based systems out perform bike packing systems, particularly wedge shaped seat packs. It is entirely possible to design and make a bag system that attaches to the seat post or saddle rails and give tyre clearance but is is still going to be a compromised solution in terms of ease of use and capacity when compared to pannier/rack top bag system.
You are probably correct on all fronts, except Tailfin so make an alloy version. 🙂 Would love to get my hands on some of the kit you mentioned in order to do a comparison.
Absolutely this! I'm tiny. I ride a 44cm bike. I cannot find bikepacking bags to fit. Think I'm going to have to get the sewing machine out and explore my garage to get something that actually fits my tiny bike.
There are hundreds of people who make their own DIY bags which fit perfect to their own bike. I am looking forward to seeing you ladies sewing your own bags.
Thank you for your video! I’m a 5’7” (144cm) woman, and I ride on a 46cm frame. I know I’m better off than smaller women, but I still struggle to find bags that fit. I found the tailfin setup, and was really hoping to find a similar setup that was cheaper. So far, all I’ve found is strapping a 13L dry bag to the top of a Tubus Vega rear rack (only a couple grams heavier than Tailfin as well). Not quite the same as the Tailfin, but similar concept, and it gets the job done. Glad to know I’m not alone.
Yes!! I did a video on this too. Such a very real struggle. I've also settled on a rack that holds my rear pack off the wheel - the Tailfin is the dream but I haven't made the investment yet ;)
Racks and panniers you mentioned. But you can also use racks and drybags (see the setup from Tristan Ridley with a Tubus Vega rack for example), not much different from the tailfin then and very versatile! And also an option for the front.
Great to see this issue raised. My main solution is a Carradice rack top bag on a standard, lightweight rack (a cheap version of the Tailfin). Obvious disadvantage is a bit more weight but I feel this is more than compensated for by greater stability and ease of packing & access. One tip for pushing a bar bag out and up, away from the front tyre is to use a double arm handlebar light mount to sit behind the bag and push it forward. Tools etc go in a tool caddy in a bottle cage under the down tube. No frame bags so 2 bottles are OK.
I'm 170 cm tall. I had the same problem. Could not fit my gear on any of my small bikes. Had to buy a touring bike with 4 panniers. Expensive solution yes, but its either that, or no camping trips on bike at all, I live in the artic north of Norway where I go cycling. Long between stores on my trips and bad weather half of the time needs clothes, touring bike was the best solution no doubt. Even with 1,2 kilos tent and really lightweight gear, still won't fit on my small roadbike.
You guys got to think outside the box and not try to imitate gear for larger bikes. My Surly Troll (small) uses 26" wheels. That helps. I gave up on official bike packing gear sometime back. Went back to racks front and rear. Usually panniers in front, tightly strapped with no bounce bungies.... and a waterproof duffle on rear rack. Sleeping bag strapped to handlebars in simple waterproof stuffsack and held out from cables and steadied with an extra lower stem and short horizontal piece of fixie style handlebar. Rock solid.
Good video. I am a square 6'2" that still rocks panniers on a rack, and I Love 'em. My GF is 5'2" or 5'3" and I'm trying to help her figure out what works for her.
I’m 5 foot 5 inch tall. I ride a Salsa Vaya 50 cm with 26 inch wheels. With Tubus racks. Been riding since 1979. I fully understand your dilemma. Things have really improved since I started riding in the late 1970s. You might want to consider Georgina Terry cycles or Rivendell Bikes here in the United States. Both make bikes for us short people
I’ve had the same issue with finding stuff that fits myself, my bike and my riding style. So I have to custom make and adapt everything smaller. I’ve almost got my perfect setup but would love to see companies take into consideration that women riders should be taken as seriously as male riders and also a quality product that is actually affordable instead of having to either make our own stuff or pay a fortune for one off custom bags. Especially medium size frame bicycles and smaller. ❤️
@@Type2Twins everything from custom brackets to use a variety of different rack options for optimal weight distribution to custom made bags I’ve made or modified myself for lighter more aerodynamic loads. Also buying enough parts to make a whole new bike minus the frame. I would design a bike myself, but the cost of making a frame to my specifications costs more than I can afford unfortunately. I’d love to also design custom tyres but that also has the same issue of costs, which could also make a significant difference in ride quality for us in general.
@@CAPRAQUEENRC wow, sounds like you need an investor, bet your mind is bursting with ideas! I (Kajsa) have also more or less re-designed my bike and I've got that many bags laying around I could start my own second hand bike shop!
Decathlon does 650 inner tubes. My wife uses 650b wheels on her road bike/gravel bike. She uses gp5000 28mm, 32mm and schwalbe g-one 40mm. (She hates the idea of tubeless setup so we stuck with inner tubes)
@@Type2Twins the Restrap race saddle bag uses a smaller holster but the capacity is only 7l. They also do a 1.5l top tube bag which could be a good way to add a bit more carrying capacity.
Options for small bike frames 27.5 inch wheels for more space between saddlebag/handlebar bag and wheels Loop bars, flat handlebars, fork with mounts Trek 1120 (the orange one) type of rear rack that holds bags on either side of the wheels...
My wife is 5'3" and does not have enough room between her saddle and the top of her 650b tires (size 48cm frame). We are looking at the Tailfin. Did you need to add any extenders or additional parts to get it to sit back far enough to make room for the tank bag? Thanks!
Yes, an extender. I think the extender is only compatible with the Aeropack and not the Trunk Bags but you might want to check with Tailfin if they have something similar for the Trunk Bag if that's what you're looking at. Good luck!
I made an extender for my Tailfin aero bag as I didn’t have enough room for it under the saddle when it’s full. I got the version that allows any bag to sit on the rack- but they don’t make an extender for it☹️ I made one from lengths of metal brackets. It works rather well- even if I say so myself! Nick promised that they were thinking of designing one- but I don’t think they have bothered yet. Got a bit distracted with cargo cages I suspect! Thank you for uploads 💙🚴♀️⛺️❤️
The Chinese brands must have solutions for this, they are generally quite a lot shorter than us westerners. Their domestic market of short people is huge. The hard part is to find the good quality product among all the junk.
Sorry, but even though I can understand the core problematic of short riders, I find your approach to be completely backwards: you're ranting that equipment manufacturers don't make compromises, yet you blatantly refuse to make any compromises yourself. You take these large Alpkit bags and then moan how they don't fit in your 30cm handlebar. Get a small bag, where's the problem? As a short person - your gear (sleeping bag, mat, clothes don't take as much space as average rider. Therefore your bags can be proportionally smaller and thus fit on the smaller bike. Also, you completely disregard some of the existing solutions solely on their price. As a small niche of the market you have to pay for the R&D that went into a product designed specifically to solve the problems of yours. As I'm 200cm tall, I'm on the opposing end of the spectrum - I could rant about why my bike weights so much and why my gear is extra long and how I could use even larger bags (but don't want them to be any heavier). I understand these limitations and work around them, but I don't scream "I dont WANNA large shoes, I WANT small shoes to fit me - other people are using them and I WANT them to fit me too! Manufacturers - do something about it!". If you see that something is lacking in the market, it's a great opportunity to step into it and fill it with new products - either directly or via partnership. Cycling is supposed to be positive experience and solving your problems is part of if - don't force them onto others, please.
Thanks for your feedback. As we mention in the video, small people can't just buy small bags because they still have to fit regular sized gear into it. You think we can get small sleeping bags, small sleeping mats, etc? Nope. Talk to us again when you're half a metre shorter and have experience with the issues we've faced. Thanks for watching and enjoy your big frame with lots of room to put luggage.
The issues highlighted are for the average height for a woman. That’s not niche, that’s half the population. Paying extra for kit really adds up. I don’t want to have to pay more for everything because I’m a woman of average height. As mentioned above, sleeping bags and other kit are the same size. Mine is for a 180cm person yet I’m 162cm tall. But sure, I could just not take any water, that would save some space.
That was the most unhelpful video. You didn’t explain anything other than going to the bike shop and having them make something for you?? Are you kidding?
Hi Jonny, this was the most unhelpful comment. You didn't explain what it was you were expecting from the video. Are you kidding? Perhaps if you let us know we can improve in future episodes. Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback.
At last a ‘realistic’ channel for bikepacking 👍😊😊😊
Bike packing is the same thing as cycle touring, its just a phrase that was invented to made cycle touring sound more cool and trendy.
In my experience bike packing luggage is a triumph of marketing and fashion over performance and usability. The size, shape and attachment systems of bike packing bags, particularly wedge shaped seat packs, mean that they are restricted in capacity and difficult pack and to attach and remove from the bike. Traditional saddle bags such as Carradice are much better but not perfect, they work better with the specific saddle bag uplift racks and some aspects of the design could be modernised for better performance.
More compact pannier racks are available such as the ones made by Tortec. Combined with a set of small panniers (those normally intended from the front) would make a great alternative to bike packing bags, being easier to attach and remove from the bike, easier to pack items into and will give more capacity than a combined wedge shaped saddle bag and handlebar bag.
Rack top bags are also a great solution if you are concerned about panniers making the bike too wide or if aerodynamics are important.
There are racks that attach to the saddle or seat post that will carry a drybag, These solve the tyre clearance issues but still have limited capacity.
The Tailfin, in my opinion, is the best solution for bikes that don't have pannier rack mounts. However it is in reality a pannier system rather than a bike packing system. It would be good if Tailfin could produce a cheaper version, perhaps made of aluminium alloy rather than carbon fibre to keep costs down.
My view is that pannier or rack based systems out perform bike packing systems, particularly wedge shaped seat packs. It is entirely possible to design and make a bag system that attaches to the seat post or saddle rails and give tyre clearance but is is still going to be a compromised solution in terms of ease of use and capacity when compared to pannier/rack top bag system.
You are probably correct on all fronts, except Tailfin so make an alloy version. 🙂 Would love to get my hands on some of the kit you mentioned in order to do a comparison.
Absolutely this! I'm tiny. I ride a 44cm bike. I cannot find bikepacking bags to fit. Think I'm going to have to get the sewing machine out and explore my garage to get something that actually fits my tiny bike.
There are hundreds of people who make their own DIY bags which fit perfect to their own bike.
I am looking forward to seeing you ladies sewing your own bags.
Thank you for your video! I’m a 5’7” (144cm) woman, and I ride on a 46cm frame. I know I’m better off than smaller women, but I still struggle to find bags that fit. I found the tailfin setup, and was really hoping to find a similar setup that was cheaper. So far, all I’ve found is strapping a 13L dry bag to the top of a Tubus Vega rear rack (only a couple grams heavier than Tailfin as well). Not quite the same as the Tailfin, but similar concept, and it gets the job done. Glad to know I’m not alone.
Totally agree about the Tailfin, and I’ve got the little extension that moves with seat pack slightly further back, well worth it
You are a beautiful discovery. Always useful topics and beautiful videos.
Sorry for my basic English..Alessandro from Italy.
Thank you!!
So glad you found Tailfin.
Yes!! I did a video on this too. Such a very real struggle. I've also settled on a rack that holds my rear pack off the wheel - the Tailfin is the dream but I haven't made the investment yet ;)
Racks and panniers you mentioned. But you can also use racks and drybags (see the setup from Tristan Ridley with a Tubus Vega rack for example), not much different from the tailfin then and very versatile! And also an option for the front.
Great to see this issue raised. My main solution is a Carradice rack top bag on a standard, lightweight rack (a cheap version of the Tailfin). Obvious disadvantage is a bit more weight but I feel this is more than compensated for by greater stability and ease of packing & access. One tip for pushing a bar bag out and up, away from the front tyre is to use a double arm handlebar light mount to sit behind the bag and push it forward. Tools etc go in a tool caddy in a bottle cage under the down tube. No frame bags so 2 bottles are OK.
You girls are hilarious 😂. I am using the ortlieb saddle bag (medium size) and for the front, too. Pricy but works very well for me.
You know guys, your two have shown a real problem with "bike packing". Keep up the good work and stay SAFE!!
I'm 170 cm tall.
I had the same problem.
Could not fit my gear on any of my small bikes.
Had to buy a touring bike with 4 panniers.
Expensive solution yes, but its either that, or no camping trips on bike at all, I live in the artic north of Norway where I go cycling.
Long between stores on my trips and bad weather half of the time needs clothes, touring bike was the best solution no doubt.
Even with 1,2 kilos tent and really lightweight gear, still won't fit on my small roadbike.
You guys got to think outside the box and not try to imitate gear for larger bikes. My Surly Troll (small) uses 26" wheels. That helps. I gave up on official bike packing gear sometime back. Went back to racks front and rear. Usually panniers in front, tightly strapped with no bounce bungies.... and a waterproof duffle on rear rack. Sleeping bag strapped to handlebars in simple waterproof stuffsack and held out from cables and steadied with an extra lower stem and short horizontal piece of fixie style handlebar. Rock solid.
Just fantastic !! (I’m 5’2”)
Good video. I am a square 6'2" that still rocks panniers on a rack, and I Love 'em. My GF is 5'2" or 5'3" and I'm trying to help her figure out what works for her.
Do let us know how she gets on!
I’m 5 foot 5 inch tall. I ride a Salsa Vaya 50 cm with 26 inch wheels. With Tubus racks. Been riding since 1979. I fully understand your dilemma.
Things have really improved since I started riding in the late 1970s.
You might want to consider Georgina Terry cycles or Rivendell Bikes here in the United States. Both make bikes for us short people
Yet they haven't improved enough, sadly. ☹ Thanks for the bike tips, will check them out when I'm the market for a new one!
Take a look at the jack rack for the front and the PDW bindle rack for rear
I’ve had the same issue with finding stuff that fits myself, my bike and my riding style. So I have to custom make and adapt everything smaller. I’ve almost got my perfect setup but would love to see companies take into consideration that women riders should be taken as seriously as male riders and also a quality product that is actually affordable instead of having to either make our own stuff or pay a fortune for one off custom bags. Especially medium size frame bicycles and smaller. ❤️
Thanks for watching! The struggle is definitely real! What adaptations did you make to make it work?
@@Type2Twins everything from custom brackets to use a variety of different rack options for optimal weight distribution to custom made bags I’ve made or modified myself for lighter more aerodynamic loads. Also buying enough parts to make a whole new bike minus the frame. I would design a bike myself, but the cost of making a frame to my specifications costs more than I can afford unfortunately. I’d love to also design custom tyres but that also has the same issue of costs, which could also make a significant difference in ride quality for us in general.
@@CAPRAQUEENRC wow, sounds like you need an investor, bet your mind is bursting with ideas! I (Kajsa) have also more or less re-designed my bike and I've got that many bags laying around I could start my own second hand bike shop!
Decathlon does 650 inner tubes. My wife uses 650b wheels on her road bike/gravel bike. She uses gp5000 28mm, 32mm and schwalbe g-one 40mm. (She hates the idea of tubeless setup so we stuck with inner tubes)
The Restrap aero bar bag could be a good solution for the front and their saddle bags use a holster system to keep the rear bag rigid.
Good shout on the aero bar bag, might have to start saving! The rear bags are simply too wide to fit in.
@@Type2Twins the Restrap race saddle bag uses a smaller holster but the capacity is only 7l. They also do a 1.5l top tube bag which could be a good way to add a bit more carrying capacity.
@@FastTony78 Yeah, that's never gonna be enough.
Options for small bike frames
27.5 inch wheels for more space between saddlebag/handlebar bag and wheels
Loop bars, flat handlebars, fork with mounts
Trek 1120 (the orange one) type of rear rack that holds bags on either side of the wheels...
My wife is 5'3" and does not have enough room between her saddle and the top of her 650b tires (size 48cm frame). We are looking at the Tailfin. Did you need to add any extenders or additional parts to get it to sit back far enough to make room for the tank bag? Thanks!
Yes, an extender. I think the extender is only compatible with the Aeropack and not the Trunk Bags but you might want to check with Tailfin if they have something similar for the Trunk Bag if that's what you're looking at. Good luck!
I made an extender for my Tailfin aero bag as I didn’t have enough room for it under the saddle when it’s full. I got the version that allows any bag to sit on the rack- but they don’t make an extender for it☹️ I made one from lengths of metal brackets. It works rather well- even if I say so myself! Nick promised that they were thinking of designing one- but I don’t think they have bothered yet. Got a bit distracted with cargo cages I suspect! Thank you for uploads 💙🚴♀️⛺️❤️
Touring vs Bikepacking? Same kit if I'm going light, and any luxuries go in the backpack, which encourages weight thrift.
I'm a small frame rider.
The Chinese brands must have solutions for this, they are generally quite a lot shorter than us westerners. Their domestic market of short people is huge. The hard part is to find the good quality product among all the junk.
Consider the Jones h bars they will change your writing experience forever. Don't forget to send me a shout out later
Rant away! The industry generally fails to provide adequate equipment for non-average sized riders.
Miss Grape Tendril 4.10 WP
That only packs 4 litres at it's smallest (which would only just fit smaller handlebars) unfortunately.
omg hahhaa
Wire makes good support for saggy breasts…oops, I meant saggy bags 😂😂 Great Tips!! I’m short too so this is brilliant!! Thanks!!
Bikepacking Vs Touring ?
Who really cares? ............. Not me
Just do what you want, how you want
👍😊😊😉😉
Wasn't there a top song on the charts that simply stated, "Short people have no reason to live".
Was there???
Sorry, but even though I can understand the core problematic of short riders, I find your approach to be completely backwards: you're ranting that equipment manufacturers don't make compromises, yet you blatantly refuse to make any compromises yourself. You take these large Alpkit bags and then moan how they don't fit in your 30cm handlebar. Get a small bag, where's the problem? As a short person - your gear (sleeping bag, mat, clothes don't take as much space as average rider. Therefore your bags can be proportionally smaller and thus fit on the smaller bike. Also, you completely disregard some of the existing solutions solely on their price. As a small niche of the market you have to pay for the R&D that went into a product designed specifically to solve the problems of yours.
As I'm 200cm tall, I'm on the opposing end of the spectrum - I could rant about why my bike weights so much and why my gear is extra long and how I could use even larger bags (but don't want them to be any heavier). I understand these limitations and work around them, but I don't scream "I dont WANNA large shoes, I WANT small shoes to fit me - other people are using them and I WANT them to fit me too! Manufacturers - do something about it!".
If you see that something is lacking in the market, it's a great opportunity to step into it and fill it with new products - either directly or via partnership.
Cycling is supposed to be positive experience and solving your problems is part of if - don't force them onto others, please.
Thanks for your feedback. As we mention in the video, small people can't just buy small bags because they still have to fit regular sized gear into it. You think we can get small sleeping bags, small sleeping mats, etc? Nope. Talk to us again when you're half a metre shorter and have experience with the issues we've faced. Thanks for watching and enjoy your big frame with lots of room to put luggage.
Oh, and even if we just wanted to buy smaller bags, we can't, they don't exist. That's the point.
The issues highlighted are for the average height for a woman. That’s not niche, that’s half the population. Paying extra for kit really adds up. I don’t want to have to pay more for everything because I’m a woman of average height. As mentioned above, sleeping bags and other kit are the same size. Mine is for a 180cm person yet I’m 162cm tall. But sure, I could just not take any water, that would save some space.
That was the most unhelpful video. You didn’t explain anything other than going to the bike shop and having them make something for you?? Are you kidding?
Hi Jonny, this was the most unhelpful comment. You didn't explain what it was you were expecting from the video. Are you kidding? Perhaps if you let us know we can improve in future episodes. Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback.