A Chat with Paul Reed Smith - How it all Started!

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  • čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
  • During Lee's visit to the Paul Reed Smith Factory, the two sat down for a chat about the origins of the company, early PRS guitars and Paul's lifelong passion for making guitars! | tinyurl.com/ytromog3
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    ⏰ Timestamps ⏰
    » 0:00 Introducing Paul Reed Smith!
    » 1:28 An Early PRS Guitar - The Sorcerer's Apprentice
    » 9:00 An Early Fretless PRS Bass
    » 18:15 Another Look at the Sorcerer's Apprentice
    » 20:10 Thanks For Watching!
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    Please note that Lee Anderton has a personal financial share holding in the following brands - Victory Amplification, Chapman Guitars and Burns Guitars. The EastCoast, Landlord & Ordo brand names are used for Andertons’ own brand products.
    #andertons #paulreedsmith #prsguitars
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Komentáře • 219

  • @andertons
    @andertons  Před 5 měsíci +246

    I’ve met Paul many times & this is the most relaxed I’ve ever seen him. After seeing these guitars, hearing how it all started & meeting the team he’s built & the factory they’ve built, my respect for him has never been higher. 👍

    • @StreetPreacherr
      @StreetPreacherr Před 5 měsíci +3

      Should we be expecting a PRS Factory Tour Video?!?

    • @aPHYSICALretawd
      @aPHYSICALretawd Před 5 měsíci +4

      ​@StreetPreacherr they already have one uploaded don't they??

    • @robertnewman7888
      @robertnewman7888 Před 5 měsíci

      What a lovely Guy, do hope we can see you and Danish Pete talking and playing this guitar soon

    • @Ariocarpus2000
      @Ariocarpus2000 Před 5 měsíci +3

      Yes, remembering other meetings between both of you, this one has a strange relaxed, almost emotional vibe.

    • @BrandonBlackstock-ve2qj
      @BrandonBlackstock-ve2qj Před 4 měsíci +1

      Maybe you should do a video about how poorly you treat your staff and how Stuart W. is the son Pete Anderton wishes he had to run his daddy’s business

  • @rondahlquist9881
    @rondahlquist9881 Před 5 měsíci +49

    I met Paul Reed Smith at the airport in ORD this summer. We talked for about a half hour and I learned a lot. After 20 years of playing I just got my first PRS, a DGT. I’m sure there will be more to follow.

    • @flybynight1929
      @flybynight1929 Před 5 měsíci +4

      I wish I could run into Paul anywhere, just to thank him, his guitars are a revelation. I have four now, and feel I'm set for life. After finally buying one for a retirement present to myself, I realized that I always foolishly thought that I couldn't afford them, and once I had one, I realized if you're a player, you can't afford not to have one.

    • @rondahlquist9881
      @rondahlquist9881 Před 5 měsíci

      @@flybynight1929it’s a funny story. After years and years of playing I never gave PRS second thought. Nothing against them at all. I’m just one of those players that focused on the guitars of my heroes. So if Jimi Hendrix, Clapton, and SRV played a Strat I wanted to play one too.
      And that was that.
      And then randomly, about a week or to before I met him at the airport, I came across a beautiful PRS guitar and became quickly obsessed.
      So I went on a continuous internet deep dive and watched and listened to just about every PRS review, interview, or factory tour I could find.
      It was then I found myself at the airport minding my own business, cell phone in hand and ear buds in. I was watching a demonstration he had given at NAMM years ago. And, while I’m listening to him talk about guitars and amps, I look over and there he is; Paul Reed Smith. I couldn’t pass up the opportunity so I walked right up to him and showed him what is was listening to.
      He seemed amused and that began a half hour long conversation about guitars and guitarists. He’s was extremely nice and a bit of a character. When I told him a core model might be just out of reach I did what all husband do, I blamed it on my wife. Without skipping a he goes, “get her on the phone.” And they talked for a while as well.
      So now I have my first PRS, a DGT. And I have a very lonely Strat.

    • @seanyiscubsfan1
      @seanyiscubsfan1 Před 4 měsíci

      ORD? You mean O’Hare?

  • @Brykk
    @Brykk Před 5 měsíci +28

    Paul reed smith seems like such a down to earth kind of guy. I would love to meet him some day. Not only do i love his guitars, but he seems to understand what musicians really enjoy on a different level. His designs set prs apart from the others. In a very good way.

  • @richardburton8847
    @richardburton8847 Před 5 měsíci +78

    It’s cool to see Andertons get the praise they deserve from companies such as PRS for their contributions to the modern music industry. I wonder what the percentage of overall global sales of PRS, Fender, etc… are somehow associated to the Andertons CZcams channel???
    John Mayer, 2-3hr jam session in the Andertons studio??? They’ve earned it. Let’s go!!! ☮️🤙

    • @merkavah4
      @merkavah4 Před 5 měsíci +6

      Mayer is here in March playing the O2, I can see him appearing on Andertons and That Pedal Show.

    • @michaelbolshazy3532
      @michaelbolshazy3532 Před 5 měsíci

      The numbers are going to be surprisingly high. They do more then they understand!

    • @jeffgualandijr9420
      @jeffgualandijr9420 Před 5 měsíci +1

      and coming from him, thats huge.

    • @MarkJBaber
      @MarkJBaber Před 5 měsíci

      I'd love to see each company give their dataset around this, sales from Anderson's.

  • @UnusualVariable
    @UnusualVariable Před 5 měsíci +7

    This is to you, Lee; you are not "just a salesman." You are a fantastican host, incredible with interviews, and around a genuine person, which this world needs more of. All the way in the USA, we are thankful for your content.

  • @glenproctor1999
    @glenproctor1999 Před 5 měsíci +41

    Conversations with Paul are always a delight. Love the passion.

  • @johnelcanrab2114
    @johnelcanrab2114 Před 5 měsíci +9

    My dad used to take me out on the road with him on Saturdays as a kid in the late 80s. We frequented a few guitar shops we passed on the way. One was called zebra music (I think) in derbyshire and I saw my first ever prs at about 7 years old. Would have been '87', 88 maybe. I was utterly amazed at what I saw and ran and grabbed my dad showing him the flying bird inlays. And the shine and beauty of the top! I fell in love there and then. Always loved them since, looked at them every time I went back for new models or colours. They were so fancy back then, still are now. I still don't have one though 😢 good memories still. And they're still with me over 30 years later ❤ cheers paul, you helped me fall in love with guitar even more and one day I will own one! 🎉😊

  • @derick-smith
    @derick-smith Před 5 měsíci +12

    Paul is such a character. He seems to be extremely aware of the impact he's had on the industry. It can come off as braggadocios but I've come to appreciate the fact that he's passionate and proud. Great interview!

    • @jcmusic5150
      @jcmusic5150 Před 5 měsíci

      Braggadocios! What a great word!

  • @matthewmcguire5217
    @matthewmcguire5217 Před 5 měsíci +6

    The passion this man has for his craft is infectious…obviously from watching the factory tour and the passion his team has making these beauties!

  • @orjand
    @orjand Před 4 měsíci +2

    Paul seems like the most genuine and down to earth guys. Loved this casual conversation.

  • @joshoptical
    @joshoptical Před 5 měsíci +13

    Always glad to see Paul talk and Lee all the more

  • @user-fd6tg3rn4m
    @user-fd6tg3rn4m Před 5 měsíci +2

    fab vid guys, my vantage is 27 frets which is long, looking forwards to hearing it being played cap.

  • @Moist_Moose_
    @Moist_Moose_ Před 5 měsíci +2

    This is quite the video. Andertons videos are possibly the best on CZcams. And PRS has to be one of, if not the best guitar builders.

  • @matthurt7369
    @matthurt7369 Před 4 měsíci +1

    I think this is the most ‘normal’ conversation with Paul I’ve ever seen. Great chat, incredibly humble from you both.
    I have a PRS Custom 22 from 1998 which has an almost identical top and finish to the original model in this vid, although mine has been out of it’s case and well played pretty much since the day I bought it so the colour has faded to an almost sea green now. It’s still beautiful.

  • @Scottuz
    @Scottuz Před 5 měsíci +3

    Paul seems such a personable guy, I'd love to sit and chat to him, and have him excited about showing off
    his early Instruments

  • @MakerMark13
    @MakerMark13 Před 2 měsíci

    I have so much respect for this man, as an engineer myself and having designed many machines now, I’m 45 now, I’ve learned from so many of my mistakes and try’s and experiments …the new guys coming in now, they sit frozen not wanting to make mistakes but it freezes them from trying something new! I wish I had a Paul running my company! Especially the one fix a day philosophy, I love it!!! I’m buying a PRS out of respect for this man!

  • @RawGuitarRiffs
    @RawGuitarRiffs Před 4 měsíci

    I just had tears in my eyes watching this. Just a beautiful interview with two very special people. 🖤🖤

  • @Bobbydawriter
    @Bobbydawriter Před 5 měsíci +1

    What a nice man - his sincerity and joy for his craft travels right through the screen. Beautiful.

  • @Professional.Bro.777
    @Professional.Bro.777 Před 5 měsíci +7

    Just watched hours worth of blindfold challenges and this comes out...I guess I'll be doing this today

  • @MckinleyDjents
    @MckinleyDjents Před 5 měsíci

    I'm in so much awe and cried my eyes out with seeing the beautiful art and how Paul is just Paul! You will never be able to top him.

  • @josephhughes9490
    @josephhughes9490 Před 5 měsíci +3

    Absolutely love my custom 24. Plays beautifully. Makes playing easy

  • @jeffgualandijr9420
    @jeffgualandijr9420 Před 5 měsíci

    man anyone who has the luxury of talking to Paul on a daily basis is truly blessed. he has such an immeasurable amount of wisdom that just talking to him is a years worth of wisdom and a month of knowledge in an hour.

  • @kenthhamner2641
    @kenthhamner2641 Před 5 měsíci

    Great to see you two chat!

  • @R.H.bladeNshade
    @R.H.bladeNshade Před 4 měsíci

    Paul definitely was ridiculously relaxed you nailed it. As soon as he started describing the guitar he forgot the camera was even there.

  • @JoshuaC923
    @JoshuaC923 Před 4 měsíci

    Always loved watching Lee and Paul together

  • @maciller8461
    @maciller8461 Před 5 měsíci +1

    such a treat. thank you Cap!

  • @Adventuresingearland
    @Adventuresingearland Před 5 měsíci

    What a lovely chat - thanks for sharing.
    Wonderful to have records of discussions such as this with a bonafide titan luthier and businessman.
    Imagine such insights into Mr Fender and the trailblazers at Gibson for future learning?
    Exceptional work! 👏🏻

  • @joelcelima
    @joelcelima Před 4 měsíci

    Paul is such a great man. I would love to meet him one day. He's changed my life that's for sure! I'm so proud to play a Paul Reed Smith. Thanks captain, great video.

  • @design-build-give
    @design-build-give Před 5 měsíci

    I was able to tour the factory once, due to a mix-up my group got a tour from Jack Higginbotham, which was a pleasure, and just so happened as we were getting to the staining area Paul cam walking up, got to meet him and chat for about 5 minutes with him, It was an absolute pleasure to do so. Working there designing guitars or basses would be a dream job for me. I am an amateur builder and I put a little bit of Paul's design flare in each guitar or bass I have built. What a great thing to get to spend time with him.

  • @tomshoemaker662
    @tomshoemaker662 Před 5 měsíci

    Very happy to hear Lee express his admiration for the Chesapeake Bay area where I’m fortunate to call home. By all means Lee you should return and explore when you have more time. An amazing amount of wonderful sights and places to enjoy in this beautiful part of the US. A video of Paul teaching you how to pick and enjoy MD blue crabs is a must! Oh and Paul’s a genius!

  • @darkonyx1741
    @darkonyx1741 Před 5 měsíci +1

    Just bought a PRS SE A50E and absolutely love it! My first PRS, and don't expect it to be the last!

  • @wizaxed
    @wizaxed Před 5 měsíci

    Paul seems like a very humble mad scientist! You can see Lee wants to go somewhere else with the conversation, but Paul is still riding out this ideas/thoughts. Just two real people that just so happen to be on a spotlight that we all get to watch. This is great content!!

  • @roscoepcoltrane23
    @roscoepcoltrane23 Před 5 měsíci +2

    The first time I met Paul and saw how he treated people who had his guitars I became a fan. He looked at several guitars people had brought in and was really interested in what they were doing with them. Also he made sure the necks were good and made adjustments. Never have I seen a guitar manufacturer geek out with the rest of us guitar nerds. So I was sold and bought one the next day which he signed. He’s definitely a cool guy.

  • @emromw
    @emromw Před 5 měsíci

    I adore the love that Paul has for Lee. Please make a PRS heritage special videos, with how old PRSs relate to the new models, what improved and what stayed the same.
    And also redo that old lovely guitar, that shape looks great!

  • @TheOldYellers
    @TheOldYellers Před 5 měsíci

    Amazing. Great work andertons

  • @pwlebrun4573
    @pwlebrun4573 Před 5 měsíci

    Lee, we Andertons fans who live in Maryland would be happy to show you around the next time you’re here.

  • @scottpulver
    @scottpulver Před 4 měsíci

    I used to play when I was 11. These videos inspired me to play again. I have a MUCH bigger budget nowadays.

  • @KRayxKodessA
    @KRayxKodessA Před 5 měsíci

    I met Paul years ago at a clinic, and he was the real deal. Such a sweet guy, very gracious with his time - he was doing once overs on people's guitars and adjusting things on the fly. Dude never stops!
    I wonder if my Tremonti baritone prototype will end up in the PRS vault someday.

  • @Sams911
    @Sams911 Před měsícem +2

    Imagine if Leo Fender, Ted McCarty, or Les Paul were still alive to talk guitar with... what we have here with PRS sitting and chatting about HIS passion of guitars is the same as if those two other legends were still alive... can you imagine?

  • @Yupppi
    @Yupppi Před 5 měsíci +2

    I don't think there's a video with Paul that isn't just absolutely fascinating. That bass is really cool. Another one that looks like a classic right away but wouldn't be able to name what it looks like. I'm gonna just melt if Lee still has that archive tour unreleased but coming.

  • @bumrecordingstudios
    @bumrecordingstudios Před 5 měsíci

    Videos with Paul are never long enough. Like John Suhr, Paul is a treasure of history and knowledge of a guy trying to push the guitar forward and make it better.

  • @adhaskym.a9536
    @adhaskym.a9536 Před 5 měsíci

    That guitar just rings perfectly with very nice tones and proper.

  • @KayakCampingOffGrid
    @KayakCampingOffGrid Před měsícem

    Great chat! Wow... Paul is amazing to show one of his first hand built guitars! He truly is a wonderful contributor to the world of guitars. PRS are now on my radar... Sorry Fender! 😮😂

  • @richardmorris363
    @richardmorris363 Před 4 měsíci

    As a proud PRS owner. Just have to love Paul’s passion for building guitars.

  • @myke104uk
    @myke104uk Před 5 měsíci

    When he was just talking about that early early guitar and just hands it to you without even saying he was going to! Wow! Lee, you are a lucky guy! :)

  • @mattmanley7118
    @mattmanley7118 Před 5 měsíci +5

    Nice chat . I do enjoy Paul going off topic when he may or may not want to or have an answer to a question 😅
    Well done really fun to watch!

  • @richardshattock890
    @richardshattock890 Před 5 měsíci

    Ive got my deposit on a prs standard 2408 in tobacco collecting in a week or so from Andertons,im learning and cant wait.Paul reeds passion of quality and what a great guy to chat to.Hope to meet him one day and also the captain and pete.

  • @jeffryallred2174
    @jeffryallred2174 Před 5 měsíci

    I livein America, I may never buy a guitar from Anderton's, but I appreciate what you guys do, thank you!

  • @aydenmcfly1362
    @aydenmcfly1362 Před 5 měsíci

    Man I teared up a bit there, what an amazing person!

  • @BrandOdyssey
    @BrandOdyssey Před 4 měsíci

    Paul is one of a kind. His business philosophy is outstanding. What all business should be. Remarkable company. Never played a prs in my life however.

  • @VirginiaWolf88
    @VirginiaWolf88 Před 4 měsíci +1

    Awesome video. I thought Frederick Maryland might come up. 🎉😊

  • @GuitarNoize111
    @GuitarNoize111 Před 5 měsíci

    Great interview.

  • @sbrave
    @sbrave Před 4 měsíci

    These guitars are still so great. I love my SE and CE models the same

  • @TheHatMusic
    @TheHatMusic Před 5 měsíci

    I have a 1994 Custom 22, which still plays and sounds like it's factory fresh. The shape, the balance, the weight and the tone are all exquisite. Paul's design experiments and development resulted in a guitar which is simply wonderful to play. Recently, I purchased a Silver Sky, which is much the same. It sounds strat-like, but has a chaarcter of its own and the playing feel is so comfortable and easy, with the same solid build quality and attention to detail that my CU22 has. I've played PRS instruments which I've not been so keen on because of my own preference, but it's never been because they're bad, it's simply my own taste. They really are fantastic things to play.

  • @Boomheyyou
    @Boomheyyou Před 5 měsíci

    Beautiful Guitar and bass

  • @magnusramaglioni
    @magnusramaglioni Před 5 měsíci +1

    I think the thing about PRS that always shines through is that they are making instruments that allow people to feel unimpeded when they play so magic can happen. Always looking to improve the experience. There are many companies just selling stuff, Paul clearly cares about how you feel and grow as a player long after money has changed hands.

  • @iisan1
    @iisan1 Před 5 měsíci

    “Andertons’ videos are worldwide”... yup. Im from the other parts of the world, in Indonesia, and im still watching every single videos from Andertons

  • @JTMP12
    @JTMP12 Před 5 měsíci +1

    Welcome to Maryland Lee!!

  • @Mpcoluv
    @Mpcoluv Před 4 měsíci

    I would like to buy a guitar like this. Please Paul, put this into production.

  • @norwayva
    @norwayva Před 4 měsíci

    A few years back I was working in a big guitar shop and Paul came for a meet and greet. I was taking pictures for the social media and stepped up on an amp to get a higher picture and in doing so the crotch of my jeans ripped at a cartoon level volume and everyone including Paul stopped talking and looked at me. I had to go get new jeans because the hole was so big I could have passed a guitar through it. I would be amazed if he remembered that though.

  • @mentox6592
    @mentox6592 Před 5 měsíci +2

    “It’s the high notes that gets ‘em” sounds like something Guthrie Govan would say.

  • @stepitupandgo67
    @stepitupandgo67 Před 5 měsíci

    OMG I want to hear that guitar

  • @wardettinger6177
    @wardettinger6177 Před 4 měsíci

    Should have done a longer video seems like a lovely man excitement is still in his ❤️ I would have been more excited to let him talk more👍👍👍👍

  • @rubenvanderkooij1571
    @rubenvanderkooij1571 Před 5 měsíci

    Watching Paul is always a pleasure! And I'm not even a guitarist :)

  • @S-T-E-V-E
    @S-T-E-V-E Před 4 měsíci

    PRS is one of the only Brands that continuously push quality and innovation to the point that their newer guitars are always better than their older ones!

  • @rampman8940
    @rampman8940 Před 7 dny

    Born to make guitars

  • @Lez325
    @Lez325 Před 5 měsíci

    Awesome guitar's and an awesome man

  • @godhead331
    @godhead331 Před 5 měsíci

    Pauls the man in my book. I have 2 prs and damn do i want more!

  • @tonybowen455
    @tonybowen455 Před 5 měsíci

    This is f'ing incredible

  • @Stereostupid
    @Stereostupid Před 5 měsíci

    Paul bring back that shape!! Its amazing!! The junior shape with the PRS contours is 🔥 especially with p90 do a special on the sorcerer's appearance! Apprentice

  • @joek81981
    @joek81981 Před 5 měsíci

    How have I not realized that I've never seen a PRS bass? This feels impossible to not have noticed.
    Aye, you better make that archive video.

  • @TVoltG
    @TVoltG Před 4 měsíci

    If Paul would make an affordable reissue of this. I would buy in a minute. Love this.

  • @kylekloostra5659
    @kylekloostra5659 Před 4 měsíci

    He sounds precisely like Steve Jobs-tone of voice, phrasing, and cadence, it's eerie.

  • @MrVinB
    @MrVinB Před 5 měsíci

    Oh man, seeing that fretless bass made me hope that the SE bass line gets some more love in the future. Like I love the Kestrel, but imagine the PRS attention to detail on some new models.

  • @Happy-Me.
    @Happy-Me. Před 4 měsíci

    I saw the Dragon at the old PMT in Birmingham a very long time ago!

  • @ThePandaProcrastinates
    @ThePandaProcrastinates Před 5 měsíci

    Good on Ryan Fowler!! He is a good dude!

  • @Muppio
    @Muppio Před 5 měsíci

    Paul may be the coolest of the guitar brand owners/creators, just seems like a chill dude.

  • @neilesewell
    @neilesewell Před 5 měsíci

    Great interview and nice to hear about how it all began and those original guitars "coming home" again. They should bring back that original body shape - it looks really clean and balanced: kinda like a carve-top Mira? Only problem if they did is I guess it would be a private stock and way out of my price range!!

  • @fabianorodas
    @fabianorodas Před 4 měsíci

    I can see that Paul really cares about his company and what comes out

  • @pedrostevens
    @pedrostevens Před 5 měsíci

    I remember seeing the Double Dragon as a kid for sale at my local guitar store in the early '00s - it was £30,000!

  • @notarealperson87
    @notarealperson87 Před 5 měsíci

    3:00 - i remember when PRS was only rotary switches! i thought flick switches were gonna be a one-off but here we are today

  • @John_Doe657
    @John_Doe657 Před 4 měsíci

    Paul seem to be a real cool guy. If i could ever have a sig model PRS would be the brand.

  • @adiohead
    @adiohead Před 5 měsíci

    Always wanted a PRS. Really liked the S2 Mira Hollow a few years ago but didn't end up getting one.

  • @ravenheart1439
    @ravenheart1439 Před 4 měsíci

    Love my PRS...to me they are the best feeling guitar out there, wish Paul would make a V to finish out my collection...

  • @creationinspired200
    @creationinspired200 Před 4 měsíci

    I absolutely adore that guitar i want to buy it so bad 😅

  • @MrDrewseph
    @MrDrewseph Před 5 měsíci

    Would love to play that double p90 bridge pickup, I've thought about doing that pickup layout many times

  • @nimitz1739
    @nimitz1739 Před 4 měsíci

    I’m not a PRS guy but its is cool he had the body design down from day one.

  • @AManCalledBiggles
    @AManCalledBiggles Před 5 měsíci

    I love the double P90 acting like a humbucker - Imagine the tones going between split coil (either coil), series & parallel 🤤

  • @fatsuperfly
    @fatsuperfly Před 5 měsíci

    Prs does make some great guitars, I have yet to own one but will. I played many, but the price in the ones I like are sometimes out of my limit. They have the lower models, and those are amazing as well, they always sound great and feel amazing, but want that “one” they’ve made some cool guitars with darker woods, but not colored bright, and loved those.

  • @chefboy6123
    @chefboy6123 Před 5 měsíci +2

    Love my DTG SE!!!!

  • @vchizzle
    @vchizzle Před 4 měsíci

    We NEED a Sorcerer’s apprentice in production! Limited EXP 2025 run. Do it Paul!😍

  • @neilkorsgaard
    @neilkorsgaard Před 4 měsíci

    Hi Paul, great episode! If you read these comments, I would love to see a SE version of your Tele style guitars. Hope you will consider this.

  • @Steinstra-vj7wl
    @Steinstra-vj7wl Před 4 měsíci

    Now Paul has to make many more of that 27 fretter !

  • @pepmasters-999
    @pepmasters-999 Před 5 měsíci

    10:04 must be talking about Pino Palladino's classic fretless work on Wherever l Lay My Hat (That's My Home)

  • @user-vv7lp9nn6y
    @user-vv7lp9nn6y Před 5 měsíci +1

    Love that body shape even more than the established one - and that's pretty awesome anyway

  • @Big-A-Russel
    @Big-A-Russel Před 5 měsíci

    Building guitars is addicting. The folks that are working at PRS are super lucky.

  • @calebm2242
    @calebm2242 Před 5 měsíci

    This was great. I would love to have the opportunity to talk with Paul. I'm a 27 year old musician that is about to start a CZcams channel, as well as an aspiring guitar maker. Would love to be able to pick his brain about all the things to do and what not to do when building a good guitar. He is one of, if not the best possible mentors you could have.

  • @SgtSteel1
    @SgtSteel1 Před 5 měsíci

    Paul Reed Smith comes across as a genuinely great guy.

  • @heavybrett-al4082
    @heavybrett-al4082 Před 5 měsíci

    Paul is a guitar building genius....as far as I'm concerned 🙏🎸

  • @tonynoon8693
    @tonynoon8693 Před 4 měsíci

    That guitar is beautiful. It looks like glazed ceramic.